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Tesla Plans To Build World's Biggest Battery Factory

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Joao Peixe via OilPrice.com,

Tesla is set to announce a plan this week to build the world’s largest battery factory. The plan will include the involvement of Panasonic and other partners, and it will be so big that Tesla’s CEO Elon Musk is calling it a “gigafactory.”

The motivation for building the factory is multiple. Tesla has struggled to secure a reliable supply of batteries, and building a large facility will allow it to be able to build its own – a step towards vertically integrating Tesla’s electric vehicle business. Tesla could also sell batteries to other EV companies, as well as sell batteries for storing energy storage from renewable sources. This would provide alternative revenue streams for a company that has thus far focused solely on the luxury car market.

The impact on the EV market could be huge. Tesla’s factory, which could cost $2 billion to $5 billion, would be able to churn out 30 gigawatts of production capacity each year. The gigafactory would not only be the largest battery plant in the world, but would more or less equal all global output combined. This could dramatically lower the cost of producing lithium-ion batteries for electric cars, typically one of the costliest components. Bringing down battery costs will be key to making electric vehicles affordable for the mass market.

But the implications could go beyond the EV market. Renewable energy that is intermittent has been searching for a way to capture and store energy to be used in off hours. Tesla’s gigafactory could bring down the cost of energy storage, allowing solar energy to be discharged at night and wind power to be used during calm hours. SolarCity, of which Elon Musk is the largest shareholder, would purchase Tesla batteries for its solar systems.

The location of the gigafactory has not yet been announced, but Musk said it would include lots of solar and wind to power it, leading many analysts to assume somewhere in the southwest U.S., such as New Mexico.

 


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Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Harry Pilgrim
Harry Pilgrim's picture

Who is providing fire insurance on these premises?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:52 | Link to Comment e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

What could possibly go wrong?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:56 | Link to Comment Max Damage
Max Damage's picture

So when they complete this mythical beast can someone please, please, please, announce to the world they have secretly built a Hydrogen fuel cell car and factory, and TESLA are fucked

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:57 | Link to Comment nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

@ Harry Pilgrim

AIG?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Looney
Looney's picture

It looks like we, humans, are going to be used as “energy cells” in the Gigglefactory… I can’t wait getting hooked up to the tubes… I hope, no cables or tubes go into my poo-poo hole  ;-)

Looney

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

The only way electric cars will ever work is if they use a liquid battery.

 

i.e. you pump in a charged electrolytic fluid and when the charge is almost gone you drive to a station, pump the spent fluid out and pump a freshly charged tank of fluid in.

 

This way charge times are nil. And all the infrastructure and behavior is basically in place. 

 

People could probably even have their own filling station at their home, because you can simply swap two tanks of fluid between your car and your charge station, which would be no larger than a washing machine.

Again charge times would be zero, as your next tank of fluid is charging in your station whilst you drive around with your current tank.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:18 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

At its current market cap, each Tesla produced should sell for $2,750,000 USD.

Tesla is going to build enough factory capacity'within 5 years to produce 100x the number of lithium ion batteries that the entire lithium ion battery industry produces each year currently, and Tesla is going to be producing and selling 100,000 cars within this 5 year period, while SEEING THEIR COSTS PER UNIT OF PRODUCTION INCREASE (this is actually the case, which is the opposite as to how economies of scale should work, if one bothers to read their last bullshit unicorn earnings report).

Tesla is literally floating a Unicorn Shitting Skittles Business Model, publicly & openly, and no one is pointing to the Unicorn or Skittles and highlighting them.

It's a fucking joke of a company, but one has to hand it to Elon Musk, because that con artist has some HUGE BALLS. Give credit where it is due.

The only people with bigger balls than Musk are long term (1 day+ one) owners of TSLA, but they are common degenerate types that can be found gambling the mortgage/grocery money away through the wee hours of the night at any Vegas casino.

*p.s. Tesla's "new" phase of growth (and MAYBE even profitability) depends on selling 50,000 cars per year in China, to the same Chinese who literally deplore ANY electric vehicles. BALLS.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:19 | Link to Comment thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

9 million for a car is reasonable.  Is there a waiting list? 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:24 | Link to Comment fx
fx's picture

The assumption that this will dramatically lower production costs for li-ion batteries is total bs.. It displays that the author has zero understanding of the tricky issues involved in battery manufacturing.. And while Li supplies may not be an issue, other critical materials definitely will be - think molybden and cobalt, for instance...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:50 | Link to Comment smithcreek
smithcreek's picture

Shit, I long for the days when I would hear news like this and think "that's great!"  Now every announcement of a new factory or new "investment" just make me ask "how hard are the (ever dwindling number of) taxpayers getting fucked?"

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

As do I

Hopefully with enough play money, the tech. will advance and actually help our evolution.

 Like how penicillin was discovered

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:53 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Yeah but that evil communist Fleming handed over penicillin for free to .govs not intending to make a personal profit on it. And then to add horribleness to the equation the US .gov was able to sort out large scale manufacture dropping the price big time. Imagine all the profits lost!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:37 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

I will point out that every time people have doubted Elon Musk he has proven them wrong.  10 years ago they laughed in his face when he said he wanted to carry cargo to the ISS at a fraction of the cost that existing contractors would do it.  Then he did it.  They laughed in his face when he said he was going to start a car manufacturer.  GM executives openly mocked him, calling him naive and saying that making a car was a lot harder than he thought.  Now we can compare the Chevy Volt with a Tesla Model S, and it's not GM that's laughing anymore.  This battery factory may be another crazy ambitious idea that under normal circumstances I would be very skeptical of if it were anyone else.  But it's Elon Musk and whether you like him or not he tends to get shit done.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:02 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

"The location of the gigafactory has not yet been announced."

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:22 | Link to Comment TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

There are not enough lithium or graphite on the planet to provide enough electric storage capacity to allow wind and solar to provide base load power, and selling batteries is a low margin business. They will turn a profit on this undoubtedly, but this is no "slam dunk" as some Tesla fanatics might believe it to be.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:23 | Link to Comment TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

The question is not whether or not he will be able to do something, but whether or not he will be able to do it profitably, or better yet, whether the level of profit of whatever he does will justify the sky-high stock valuation of his company's shares (hint: it will not).

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 17:13 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

He admits the Tesla stock price is too high, but it's hardly his fault that our broken momo stock market chases shit to the stars.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Price will go down. maybe a factor of 2 but you are correct, this is high tech being pushed to the limit of physics and material science...

Polycrystaline Si wafers for solar are almost childs play in comparison...

And the naysayers here better fucking hope that Tesla pulls this off, they ain't gonna like the alternative...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:59 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The alternative being powerful reliable cars with internal combustion engines? We like this alternative. A lot. Take a look around you.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Shall we agree to revisit this issue 15 years down the road?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:24 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

3 million or 9 million, or somewhere in between.

Tesla's Non-GAAP bullshit ad nauseam makes it hard to pinpoint the exact per unit profit break.

But as Billary Clinton would inevitably say, "[W]hat difference does it make!!"

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:29 | Link to Comment Nid
Nid's picture

Haven't you heard...."fish jumping in the boat....."

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:21 | Link to Comment Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Selling 50,000 cars in China means selling to 1 in 22,000 citizens.

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:41 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

In a market that is becoming more saturated with production AND ACTUAL PRODUCERS by the hour and day, and where ELECTRIC CARS ARE DISLIKED IMMENSELY.

But Musk will charm them.

And this even assumes Tesla is able to secure and scale up its own lithium ion battery production required to produce remotely this number of additional units (it can't) at even 2x the price it currently sells its wares for (it can't).

Tesla's official corporate theme song should be Van Helen's "Top of the World:"

Standing on top of the world,
For a little while.
Standing on top of the world
Let's give it all we got, oooh oooh
Baby, gotta feeling, oooh oooh,
Oh, I wanna touch it,now, oooh oooh oooh,
See the whole wide world turn upside down.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:15 | Link to Comment exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

While I agree with you, we live in a world where reality doesn't matter much.  The power of efficient allocation of capital pales compared to lobbyists.  One rule from the EPA and Tesla now has the infrastructure in place to supply a forced market. 

I don't agree with it, and reality will make a stunning return at some point, but unfortunately not any time soon.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:22 | Link to Comment fx
fx's picture

The assumption that this will dramatically lower production costs for li-ion batteries is toital bs.,

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:25 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Hey, not bad for a carbon-credit scam, don'tcha know?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:57 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This article is hilarious. It reads as Tesla promotional material would.

No questions of any of the variable, assumptions, critical supply questions, etc.

Maybe Tesla will finally make Cold Fusion a reality, too, while they build out this mega battery factory.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:59 | Link to Comment Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Tesla's batteries are "charged" by .gov.

No functional market would throw this kind of money down a rathole.

Nat Gas is where the rolling stock will end up sourcing it's power. It can be burned and transmitted over the grid with a 15% + or - power loss, into expensive, rapidly deteriorating, toxic batteries or it can be burned directly in the vehicle.

http://www.cngnow.com/vehicles/pages/information.aspx

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

"At its current market cap, each Tesla produced should sell for $2,750,000 USD."

Specious, if you are dividing market cap by unit sales.

(I understand that market cap or enterprise divided by earnings is wack.)

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Sofa King Confused
Sofa King Confused's picture

Can I place an order now for 10 AAA's.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

The fire insurance is needed for my tax-paying wallet.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:40 | Link to Comment Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Just swap the battery pack out. Same thing. Here's Tesla doing it already: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/watch-teslas-90-second-electric...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

its battery power packs for the drones that amazon will be using to deliver shit to us...and maybe powering weapons systems and surveillance devices on these drones..mother fucker GOOG, TSLA and AMZN will combine to be the Skynet of the future. FB and LNKD will supply the data.

These companies will all be government funded and plan to destroy our freedom, that is why their stocks are all skying to the roof.

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

No, trust me, it won't be batteries.  These puppies will be powered by microbial fuel cells that can operate on organic matter.  They will fly around harvesting our blood to power themselves.

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:58 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Vertical integration is an awesome business model for complex manufacturing of new technology marketed to the top-end consumer in an extremely competitive market during a stormy financial climate!  /s

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Its really just storage space for all the battery warranty returns that are coming.

Going to need a much bigger warehouse.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:28 | Link to Comment KickIce
KickIce's picture

Your model is all wrong, first they'll make the taxpayer foot the bill for the factory then they'll force you purchase a car.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:58 | Link to Comment smithcreek
smithcreek's picture

With the right "rebates/incentives" and "surcharges/penalties" I'm sure the american people will make the politically acceptable choice when purchasing a vehicle.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:29 | Link to Comment LosOsos
LosOsos's picture

But comrade, Li Ion batteries are the future of our energy supply! How else can we power society by 100% solar w/o a storage medium?! By aggregating our communal buying power now to invest in a single, giant Li Ion battery factory there will be cheap batteries for everyone later!

Invest now! It's good. Energy independence. Renewable. Many batteries later. For your country! For your health. Children's future!!!!!1!!

 

lol

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:56 | Link to Comment nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

Stupid Tesla.

The idea is to build LITTLE factories so that there is no room to store inventory and you can shove it off on the dealers.

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:10 | Link to Comment Nid
Nid's picture

Tesla has no dealers......"Disruptors" and all that...

 

Btw, it's a "GIGA"factory....just shut up and drink your Jonestown Punch.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

In a centrally planned Marxist country no need for dealers because there is no competition.... They get to set whatever price they want and you have no choice when they choke off every other possible alternative form of energy.

Get it yet people..

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:05 | Link to Comment VD
VD's picture

so for just 1 good day of POMO Tesla can build the largest battery factory in the world...it's actually a very good move; the factory that is...while the Fed keeps building the biggest ponzi in the world...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:29 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I for one would love to have a Tesla battery integrated into a home solar electric system. I can think of many electric powered zombie defense itemscould be useful soon but they become pretty worthless in grid-down scenario, unless...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:41 | Link to Comment mccvilb
mccvilb's picture

Deja vu all over again. As I remember how this played out two years ago, Li-Ion technology was invented by Yet-Ming Chang at MIT financed by US under the guise of creating a US company called A123 Systems in Cambridge, MA. Once patented he immediately hijacked the tech and took it back to China. US Govt offered to finance a factory in Michigan, which was built and went BK, and the parts were sold off to... drum roll... a Chinese company. I may have the details wrong but this effectively was what happened. And now Tesla will do it again? Sodium batteries are the future.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

The same folks who provide fire insurance at oil refineries, presumably.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 17:10 | Link to Comment JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Just make a AA powered car. Telsa owners can afford it.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:51 | Link to Comment kurt
kurt's picture

Lopeshansy Plans to Build the Worlds Biggest Battery

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:53 | Link to Comment dirtyfiles
dirtyfiles's picture

with the support of Pentagon for explosives department

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:55 | Link to Comment kenezen
kenezen's picture

Where will all the electricity to charge the sold cars come from? Our grid is 100% utilized and breaking on a regular basis. How much Carbon emissions will be produced to charge these cars. How do we get rid of the batteries? 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:57 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Monsanto is working on a electricity producing Unicorn. Should be rolling out in a few months.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:03 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Is that the genetically modified one where the sparks shoot out of its ass?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:02 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

From Fukashima Daiichi.

Tesla already entered into formal contract with TEPCO.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:07 | Link to Comment Comte d'herblay
Comte d'herblay's picture

Like all great things impossible to explain, they will get rid of them with mirrors.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Or drugs. But seriously, lithium is a major component of the eqrth's crust, and that can go right back into the crust. It's a big big planet, and all the crap we've made on it came from it.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 20:32 | Link to Comment ed31337
ed31337's picture

You must be an oil business shill. I hear these dumb compliants everytime electric cars come up on the Internet.

1. Electricity can come from all sources, which is why it is wonderful to have an electric car. Electricity can come from gas, oil, coal, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geo thermal, ad nasuem. Gas cars can only get their energy from one source, gas. Gee, is it any wonder why we pay through the nose at the gas pump?

2. I don't know what country you're posting from, but the electric grid is extremely reliable where I live. I doubt charging cars at night time while people are sleeping and not otherwise using electricity will be any problem. Hell, having a fleet of electric cars distributed throughout the grid could actually make it possible for the existing grid to handle higher peak loads when people are allowed to sell back stored electricity to the grid.

3. Carbon emissions isn't even an issue -- if you're burning gas in your car today and you end up burning gas at a power plant instead, what's the difference? Difference with an electric car is that you could be getting electricity from carbon neutral sources like solar, wind, hydro, geo thermal, etc while a gas powered car can only ever burn gas.

4. Getting rid of batteries? Recycle them, just like we do with all the laptop and car batteries today.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:54 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Eventually, electric vehicles will be mass-market.

By that time, mass-market may only represent a tiny fraction of eligible drivers.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:05 | Link to Comment ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

By that time, it will be illegal for you to drive your own car, and everything you do with it will have an electronic record, uploaded to the NSA real time.

 

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:55 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Looks like it's going to a 5 digit PE ratio...I suggest they name their next car "The Tulip".

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:55 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

Because.

Jobs.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

To the lithium mines, peons!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:20 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

If we use plastic spoons, that would mean even more jobs right?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:56 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Go long lithium

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

With as batshit crazy as this world has become, I concur!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:28 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"I'm so happy 'cause today
I've found my friends ...
They're in my head"

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:19 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Gee, where will they get a secure supply (cough...Afghanistan) of lithium?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:20 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

According to an article in this months Mining Journal there is currently about a 35,000 ton shortfall in annual global lithium production.........

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:39 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

60% of the known wolrd resources of lithium lies in socialist Bolivia and is not being mined and probably never will be due to indigenous opposition.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Cue the McRevolution strategy like in Venezuela in 3,2....

http://revolution-news.com/venezuela-mcrevolution-attempts-regime-change/

Remember that picture on ZH with golden arches standing above the burning city concerning Venezeula. It was a propaganda pic and this is what it was symbolizing.

....

A photo published in 2011 shows that the current leader of the student movement, Lorent Saleh, may have some obvious ties to CANVAS. It is not clear if he or other students know what Canvas is or who they are working for.

What is clear is that organisation JAVU seems to carry the identification marks of CANVAS’, as showed by its leader.

CANVAS’ ties with Strafor, a private intelligence company in the US, have been already exposed by Wikileaks. Strafor and CANVAS have been working on their McRevolution in Venezuela for many years: “I talked to Meredith about the upcoming visit by Canvas to the U.S. The leader — Srdja Popovic — is interested in following up on George’s invitation from 2008 to come and talk to Stratfor about their work.”

“They are currently very active in Venezuela and would like to share details of what they are doing there with us. They also want to give us a run down of their “McRevolution” strategy, which is a fascinating topic in and of itself. Meredith has instructed me to ask you how we can best arrange for visit. We would have to cover their air-fare and hotel stay… I am guessing about $1,300 in total (two tickets for $600 each and $100 for hotel room),” as this it can be read here. Of course, this McRevolution can actually help the government get stronger and escape real criticism and discontent from the working people for the slow pace of the Bolivarian revolution.

....

Lots of information including the wikileaks contacts between Canvas and Strafor concerning McRevolutions...

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:23 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

from the McRev link:
"The population is caught in the middle."
seems to be a recurring theme.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

There is an interesting point to be made about the above the article stresses in the beginning removing ideological leanings to stress the main point.

The current uprising in Venezuela is quite confusing, as they are enduring a slew of anti-government protests. But amid a storm of manipulations, lie dangerous traps that could really hurt movements fighting for ... around the world. Some of the current dialogue surrounding these protests could trap ... movements into defending police brutality, which later on could be used as leverage by governments against ... activists. The situation in Venezuela was quite possibly provoked by .... opposition members terrorizing neighborhoods, but wouldn’t ... just love to see .... movements praise the state’s police forces and even worse? Wouldn’t ..., the vanguard of ... “McRevolution” in Venezuela, just be in heaven to see that happen?

Praising police, even when it serves some .... government, serves to de-legitimize .... movements.

Beware of groups SELLING freedom. Freedom is taught not sold and practiced not bought....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

All your lithium are belong to the collective us

There'll be no shelter here the Mcfront lines are everywhere. You will be assimilated as a hamburger flipping franchise...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:45 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Ignatius said "According to an article in this months Mining Journal there is currently about a 35,000 ton shortfall in annual global lithium production.."

That's okay because Elon Musk is planting huge lithium tree orchards. Those trees grow super fast. Screw mining for lithium.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:36 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Good luck with that revolution in Bolivia.  Che Guevarra  was killed in Bolivia trying to start a revolution.  The indigenous were not interested.  Protesting and blockading the streets is a guaranteed constitutional right in Bolivia and happens every week.  People are used to it and don't get stirred up.  The country is propserous and doesn't need lithium mining.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Don't underestimate their ability to start trouble in Bolivia. All it takes is controlled opposition bused in forcing the government and police to shoot at them then using that to hang the indigenous people over it and justify outside intervention. Kinda like the Ukraine.....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:04 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

The indigenous run the government.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:48 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And thank you for proving my point about getting people to justify police brutality that are for the people which in turn....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:56 | Link to Comment asteroids
asteroids's picture

Smart, very smart. Like the guy, hate the stawk.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:15 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

If you knew the guy you'd hate the guy. He's a pompous talentless prick that never created anything himself. Didn't create Paypal, didn't create Tesla, or Space X. He's been very good at taking other peoples work and passing it off as his own, like the other great corporate sociopath Steve Jobs. Solar City was created as a scam to make cash for his friend using Wall Street. The papers for Solar City were so fradulent they almost couldn't IPO. A few phone calls changed that, and they never did change how they record revenue. Musk didn't even write the code for the game he sold in the 90s that made him his first millions.

The guy has ways been a scam artist with deep pocketed friends. Not that honesty, integrity, and talent mean anything in today's business world. The #1 asset a person has today is being a total sociopath.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:57 | Link to Comment TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

At least someone builds a factory in America for a change

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

The problem is not in building factories, the problem is in building factories intended for profit and financed by existing equity, not funded by debt, bailout, cronyism, unicorn-seeking, moon-asking, or skittle fantasies.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:38 | Link to Comment TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

I guess it no longer matters, because robots will be the dominant workers in any new factory. :)

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:04 | Link to Comment MarkD
MarkD's picture

Intel built a $5b factory....... Idle Plant

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:36 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Hilarious. They've become so efficient that they spent $5B on nothing.

Perhaps they're waiting for the FEMA chip-implant contract...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Comte d'herblay
Comte d'herblay's picture

The factory will be built by 4 Swiss gnomes, who live on roughage, and be staffed by one human bean who will push one button and then go home.  Labor costs will be less than zero.

Doesn't matter if a factory is built if it doesn't employ many thousands of now superfluous humans.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:06 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

no worries, Walmart's got ya covered in their "We Used to Make Things" campaign.

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 10:59 | Link to Comment gjp
gjp's picture

I just don't see how they can really improve the economics of battery manufacturing.  What do they know about batteries that the Koreans and Japanese don't?  These are huge scale businesses with huge factories already.  The technology has been around for decades.  Will making an even bigger factory really bring down costs that much?  Do they or Panasonic have some new magic for an old technology?  Smells like more promo from our self-styled 21st C cult of personality Iron Man, Mr. Musk.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:18 | Link to Comment nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Most everything portable these days run on lithium batteries and it is good to have a plant you (as a country) can control. Armed forces could use every ounce of overcapacity instead of sourcing it elsewhere...

There are also many advances in lithium tech (capacity and stability) but those are not yet for the masses.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

Crazy stock price.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment lamont cranston
lamont cranston's picture

Hopefully if they use Tesla for a NASCAR Pace Car it won't catch on fire like the Volt did at Daytona

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:02 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Naw, that was the Impala that lit up-  they wouldn't let a Volt within 200 miles of Daytona....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:43 | Link to Comment CharlieMike
CharlieMike's picture

Chevrolet SS

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:19 | Link to Comment lamont cranston
lamont cranston's picture

dammit. just saw a clip of a chevy on fire there the other day and assumed it was a volt ss

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:02 | Link to Comment MieleBauknecht
MieleBauknecht's picture

peak lithium after we've had peak oil

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:03 | Link to Comment mraptor
mraptor's picture

Wow... so many haters in a matter of minutes of posting the article !!! It is astounding... 

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:40 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Maybe due to the fact that the world is run by the mafia? So this will be nothing more than the latest version of Rent Seeking 101, "Gettin Paid!"

The idea that the world can be improved by the criminal class siphoning off all of the loot is ludicruos.

Oh, wait, I forgot... "It's for the Children!!!!!!!1!11!!11"

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:05 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

Was this article written by a guy with 10k shares of Tesla or a Musk cocksucker?

In order to produce batteries for a few million Tesla cars the production from the Gigafactory would have to be double the current global total of lithium-ion batteries. The infrastructure simply isn't there to support that production level. The gigafactory is more stock boosting bullshit from that sociopath Musk, like the vaporware Model X that still doesn't have a production date. Last word is Musk scrapped the design and is nearly starting over.

In terms of battery quantiry you're talking about twice as many batteries as all laptops, power tools, cell phones, rechargeable cells, and current EV cars combined. What happens to the cost of the other products when they have to compete for a scarce source of batteries. Go long rare earth materials in that case. In fact global lithium reserves would be depleted in a few years at that production level. Just for the cars, let alone production for any other use. Musk would in effect corner the entire Lithium-Ion industry.

By the way Solar City doesn't sell solar panels, they sell leases on Solar Panels made by other companies. Solar City is one of biggest Wall Street scams of the past decade, and there have been a lot of scams.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:21 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Graphite and neodymium?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:42 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I see there's at least one down-voting Musk cocksucker around here.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:05 | Link to Comment taketheredpill
taketheredpill's picture

 

 

Solar + Infrastructure = VEGAS!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:06 | Link to Comment constantine
constantine's picture

Whether you disagree with the close ties to government or not, I don't see how anything that Elon Musk is doing could be construed as anything other than positive for the world.  I've never understood the hate dished his way via ZH. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:29 | Link to Comment mraptor
mraptor's picture

Me too... as if all the haters in his position wont do the same (hypoicrities) ....  The problem is that the gov should not have had this programs in the first place... 

I also don't agree with Elon on many of his political positions, but at least he is doing something to bootstrap humanity ....

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:31 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Musk is head of a cult of personality, as well as Tesla.  You will find he is getting stick for the one, not the other, per se.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:06 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

This story is a huge red flag, factories aren't built in the US anymore...unless its something we don't know about China invading.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:22 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

Considering nearly all the materials to produce the batteries will come from China or Chinese owned land in Africa, China willnbe heavily involved.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Solarman
Solarman's picture

Huh, lithium is produced in Peru.  These battaries are a very good thing.  You will be able to go off grid wherever you are using solar and wind.  

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 13:26 | Link to Comment Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

Time is not on your side.  Re-think.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:30 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

I'm gonna use old fashioned wind power to pump water for my unicorn dairy operation. Their udders will make single malt scotch, aged 25 years, and they'll piss high test gasoline.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Warrior85
Warrior85's picture

I trade Tesla with cfd's. It brought me much profit the past year.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:13 | Link to Comment corporal
corporal's picture

A123 all over again? What is different this time? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123_Systems

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:19 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

Musk has free reign from the money changers to sucker in as many marks as possible.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:20 | Link to Comment MrVincent
MrVincent's picture

If we really are going to electric cars, we will need a few thousand more nuclear power plants.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:25 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

Don't worry Musk has you covered. You just need to drive 60 miles to a supercharger station and wait a half hour so you can drive 60 miles back home. Since the stations are moslty on toll roads you get to pay your state for the privilege of charging your car for free.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:27 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

You mean windpower won't cut it?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:27 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

That was my first thought too. Were does Elon get all the electricity to charge his gazillions of batteries? Sounds like a very stupid idea to me like the hyperloop until there is no master plan for electricity production.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:33 | Link to Comment Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

Elon is a taxpayer's nightmare.  Polished, youthful and connected.  Your pocket is his bank.  Check out California's continued tax rebates to Tesla fiasco in the face of Tesla found out to be lying for years.  They postponned a decision!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Just another tax will pop up on our utility bills. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Just another tax will pop up on our utility bills. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:01 | Link to Comment Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

I know. Just take all the gasoline that would have gone into regular cars, burn it to power turbines and generate electricity to charge the batteries thereby saving loads of money and CO2 emissions with those environmentally friendly EVs......oh wait.

Jokes aside, I do commend entrepreneurs for trying to do something about the coming fossil fuel energy crisis (assuming they're planning to rely on alternative energy to charge batteries), but the reality of the situation is that it's already far too late.

Even if the world miraculously committed 100% to converting aggressively into alternatives, it would be a minimum 15 year redirection of existing fossil fuel consumption to enable production of the first generation of alternative infrastructure in a world where supply is already failing to meet demand (the primary cause of our economic woes). There is simply no surplus to support transition without pain.

Then there's the sheer scale of fossil fuel use. Even a globally concerted push into alternatives can only ever make up a small fraction of current use.

Reality is that only the elite get to keep living life as usual 30 years from now with their EVs and PVs. The rest of us are going back to the farms with much angst on the way. (Wild-card: cold fusion, but it's a real long shot).

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Someone here gets it...

BTW, Cold fusion is not on the table... 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:47 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Yet there are those repeated anomalous results from LTNR experiments that have yet to be explained.

Let's not be Newtonians dismissing the precession of Mercury's orbit.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 15:12 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Oh...

Please provide evidence of unexplanined LENR. I am all ears....

And just so you know, I have worked on experiments looking at the neutron spectrum from D-D muon catalyzed fusion....

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 22:08 | Link to Comment Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Respect. I could never cut it in Physics (maths is too shit), and I know it because I tried. (Molecular genetics turned out to be a better fit). Did take something home from physics though: account in Joules, not dollars.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Physics is a bitch but thermodynamics is the cruellest taskmaster...

We had better come up with an energy infrastructure that has a EROEI of at least 7 that doesn't use the atmosphere as a toilet bowl real soon...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 02:02 | Link to Comment Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Soylent Green. Good for a few years until the population is low enough to be serviced by the Earth's net primary productivity without an overdraw into fossils. All that embodied energy waddling around, yum, yum. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42wMDqdI6bM (final scene is the clincher)

FFS red-tards, it's a joke (kinda).

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:39 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The future will run on negawatts. Saving energy will produce our energy, if I recall the thrust of it from my childhood

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Yep, there will be no other choice, and people will bitch and moan about it all the way, looking for someone else to blame (as I know people).

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:24 | Link to Comment fzrkid
fzrkid's picture

Current electricity supply comes from burning hydrocarbon fuels and nuclear. Explain to me how everyone owning an electic vehicle would reduce demand for hydrocarbon fuels?

Sure solar sounds nice, but current tech only has it around 30% effeciency. Wind, huh, lets look at the ROI on the turbines.

The US infrastructure can barely handle the current energy loads, now imagine everyone trying to charge their car at 5 pm when they get home from work. Can you say BROWN out across the nation?!?!?

I friggin live in the sticks where it was going to cost me $250,000 just to have wires run for 3-phase power for a bottling facility. Banks looked at me and laughed..

 

Yes, we need new sources of energy and ways for distribution, but this electric car craze is nothing more than a scam.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:40 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

I live in a town where the average build date is 1954. Nearly all the homes have 110 amp service, some have 90. The entire city's grid would need to be rebuilt from scratch to support EV charging. I don't even know where the power would come from. There simply isn't the money or the will to do it. Even if there was, the effect on evergy prices if everyone had EVs would be catastrophic. 

I can buy a set of 45watt solar panels for $125. Enough power to run three CFL bulbs in my house, if it's sunny enough. My current electric bill is 550 kWh for $60 a month. I've looked into solar panels but it would cost three times as much as what I would save on electric bills over the panel's life. So there is no return on the investment.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:46 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oooh, so you're saying they now have the motivation to build the "Smart Grid."

Saved by malinvestment... again.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 14:50 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

What's needed is a more robust "stupid grid" with EMP protection for every plant and transformer. No "smart" please.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Because everybody wants to drive a 200 mile radius car that costs 120.000 dollar.

 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:29 | Link to Comment Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

How soon before the taxpayer is told that he is on the hook for a new and improved government subsidy to Tesla?  Can DOE chant...   Giga...  GGGGIIIGA....GGGGIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGAAAAAAA  Hell yeah...  then ka-ching!  A123's $250M fleecing of the taxpayer was but a prelude for a new, bigger and better Central Planner's orgasm.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:30 | Link to Comment The Most Intere...
The Most Interesting Frog in the World's picture

How much more taxpayer money is going to be poured in to this POS?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:31 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

What will their fire evacuation plan look like?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:47 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Run screaming into the desert?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:06 | Link to Comment squid427
squid427's picture

The last time I looked at the battery in my truck it said contains lead, acid, poisonous gases, and was explosive. Aren't the batteries charged with power created from coal and oil? How much pollution does a battey fatcory create? How is this good for the environment?

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:39 | Link to Comment The Most Intere...
The Most Interesting Frog in the World's picture

Good reading....

http://lithium-ion.weebly.com/

I say we locate the plant in the middle of Washington DC

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:48 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Hear, hear!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:28 | Link to Comment Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

...that would be taxpayer rehabitulation.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:47 | Link to Comment JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

I am shocked by al the electric haters commenting. I can imagine their reaction if it was the other way around. Electric Cars where the norm and Eldon discovered Oil  Eldon wants to put cancer causing compounds in your car and then spew them into the atmosphere. Some of this oil will have to be transported tens of thousands of kilometers, and a processing plant will cost up to six billion dollars. Plus the worlds supply is owned by Muslims.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 11:51 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Wow, false analogy much?

That's a lot of damn words just to say, "I don't understand energy density. Nor the pollution caused by 'clean' alternatives. Nor the fact that the world is run by criminals."

Other than that though... free unicorns for everyone!!!!

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:13 | Link to Comment EtTuEtTu
EtTuEtTu's picture

This can't be real correct?

("Utopian society", used as an analysis term)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/25/morgan_stanley_on_autonom...

Not only is this a sign the market long jumped the shark, but the sharks now have lasers projecting 3D images of Ponzi, Barnum, Madoff and Corzine giving a 'salute'.      

 

I wonder if MS will be involved in the underwriting of the secondary needed for the OMGigafactory. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:34 | Link to Comment The Most Intere...
The Most Interesting Frog in the World's picture

Yep, it's real...  

Mussolini was building the Utopian Society for him and his buds too - but then got his face caved in by the 99%ers...  A dead fascist is a good fascist I always say....

http://historylink101.com/ww2_color/WorldWarIIConcentrationCamp/PICT0618...

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:14 | Link to Comment TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

the stock is up nearly 50% this week alone, its has more than doubled since last november.

 

some people are going to lose a shit ton of money when it crashes.  

 

it is a 50 dollar stock at best, realistically 30$, they have never even made a profit and now they are going to spend several billion to build a factory that will produce batteries so the stock goes up 30$ on the news?  

 

this is insane. 

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Duude
Duude's picture

You can be assured it won't be in California. Though Tesla manufactures automobiles in California its primarily due to the tax benefits which are critical to Tesla's survival. Beside the tax credits the feds and the state offers buyers, the state also provides Tesla with marketable tax credits that other automobile companies have to buy from Tesla. This is at the heart of cash flow and company survival for Tesla. What with that, there isn't any remaining reason to set up a battery factory in California without a similar tax credit scheme from the state. Facing the facts that California is otherwise a horrible business culture in which to operate. What's more is the company can't afford California employees.

Tue, 02/25/2014 - 12:47 | Link to Comment I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

Um, does it depend on huge federal and state subsidies?

So far everything Musk has done since PayPal, has worked on the taxpayer's dollar.

Still this seems like it might be a good idea.  If Tesla is going to be around for a few years it will keep building new cars and have to start replacing battery packs on the old ones.  Nice captive market, great opportunity for vertical integration, great use of the billions in funny money from the overvaluation of the stock.

And if it's the first thing Musk does that comes even close to using private money, that's worth a drink, too.

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