This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Putin Launches Military Drill In Western, Central Russia; Ruble Drops To Lowest Since 2009

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Lest it be confused that Russia has somehow forgotten about the Ukraine coup, and that it no longer concerns the bread basket (and key gas pipeline hub) of Europe a core strategic resource, moments ago Russian wire services blasted the following diplomatic summary of Russian bullish grace in a china store:

  • PUTIN ORDERS URGENT COMPREHENSIVE CHECKS OF TROOPS' COMBAT READINESS IN WESTERN AND CENTRAL MILITARY DISTRICTS, AND OF AEROSPACE, AIRBORNE TROOPS, LONG-RANGE AND MILITARY TRANSPORT AVIATION - SHOIGU

Bloomberg adds the following:

  • President Vladimir Putin issued orders to conduct immediate check of combat-readiness of central, western military districts, test of air defense, airborne troops, aviation, Interfax reports, citing Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.
  • Test began at 2pm local time today: IFX
  • Exercise to be conducted Feb. 26-March 3 in 2 stages
  • Commander-in-chief ordered test of military capability to react to “crisis situations, posing a danger to the country’s military security,” Shoigu is cited as saying
  • Second test phase will include tactical exercises involving Northern, Baltic Fleets

Reuters adds:

President Vladimir Putin ordered an urgent drill to test the combat readiness of the armed forces across western Russia on Wednesday, news agencies reported, flexing Moscow's military muscle amid tension with the West over Ukraine.

 

"In accordance with an order from the president of the Russian Federation, forces of the Western Military District were put on alert at 1400 (0500 ET) today," Interfax quoted Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu as saying.

 

Putin has ordered several such surprise drills in various parts of Russia since he returned to the presidency in 2012, saying the military must be kept on its toes, but the geopolitical overtones could hardly have been clearer this time.

 

The western district borders Ukraine, which lies between NATO nations and Russia. Shoigu said the drill would be conducted in two stages, ending on March 3, and also involved some forces in central Russia.

 

Putin has made no public comment on Ukraine since President Viktor Yanukovich was driven from power over the weekend after months of political turmoil sparked by his decision to spurn deals with the European Union and improve ties with Russia.

 

The United States and European nations have warned Russia against military intervention in Ukraine, a former Soviet republic that Putin has called a "brother nation" and wants to be part of a Eurasian Union he is building in the region.

 

Russian officials have said Moscow will not interfere in Ukraine, while accusing the West of doing so, and Interfax cited the speaker of the upper parliament house, Valentina Matviyenko, as saying on Wednesday it would not use force.

 

But Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Monday that Russia's interests and its citizens in Ukraine were under threat, language reminiscent of statements justifying Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008, when he was president.

In short, not only has the Russian bear woken from hibernation but is rather angry. Incidentally, Russia's ever-louder war footing rumblings have not been lost on investors who sent the USD/RUB to the highest level since March 2009, just north of 36.

As for the Ukraine Hryvnia, don't ask.

And now back to watching your regularly scheduled S&P500 all time high melt up. Becuase there is nothing at all concerning in the world.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:27 | Link to Comment WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

Putin on the Blitz

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:32 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

.....with kitty cat at his side.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:49 | Link to Comment MythicalFish
MythicalFish's picture

Trending today: "Birds with arms". Yes, its quite literal. Thanks to the feature on the BBC app.

 

http://birdswitharms.tumblr.com/

 

And now Russians with arms? Ewwwww....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:01 | Link to Comment Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

What do you mooks expect??   We stirred up the shit in the Ukraine and now Vlad is going to flush it down the drain while Obozo twirls around in the Oval Office like a nit wit!

Is it all just a game to get Russia into another massive arms race to justify increasing our own military spending and perhaps to make them go broke again?

Watch for a return of Civil Defense drills and shelters here soon.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:07 | Link to Comment PR Guy
PR Guy's picture

 

Send lawyers, guns and money - the shit has hit the fan!

Just replace 'Syria' with 'Ukraine' in the following cartoon:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgl_uwNj5c

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:17 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Wow, more contrived bad news to drive US stock markets up to all time highs.

Who would've thunk it.

What's next in the program, nuclear war so we can finally reach the all important 36,000 on the Dow?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:28 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

Vlad's affraid that he and Muammar are going to be bookends...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:13 | Link to Comment libertus
libertus's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SEhIkMhNQU This is what is going to happen to Obama's administration after Ivan get him. Rocky is us...he knows that playing this game is stupid.  

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=3892

*

"With Putin at the helm, Russia is much more likely to plot a much more aggressive course.  He maintains the posture of a Zen warrior who knows how to wield his samurai sword when necessary.  Hailing from St. Petersburg, Russia, he also likes a great game of chess.  It is on this regional geo-political chessboard of eastern Asia that his largely Anglo-American opponents will face formidable challenges in the very near future.  Just as the Russia Empire and the British Empire squared off against each other seeking supremacy in Central Asia during the first half of the 19th century."


 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:56 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Your guys understanding of geopolitics and diplomacy is almost comical...

Take Syria....

Syria is complete and utter shitshow, a Shia-Sunni cage match to the death. The perfect magnet for militant muslims of every stripe. Not even W. would think it wise to try "nationbuilding" there... Obama has basicially said, kill each other to your hearts content as we can't really stop you but chemical weapons are off the table. What actaully happened? Obama/Kerry got Putin to acquiese to Assad giving up his chemical weapons. That is pretty sharp diplomacy...

Next, the Ukraine...

Wow, how did an allegedly complete asshat like Obama pull off the most impressive US geopolitical coup d'main in 25 years?

Maybe he didn't and Putin simply fell asleep at the wheel...  My take is that is the people of the Ukraine are saying no mas...

And Barry and the Boys know just to sit back and watch "the chess player" try to finaggle his way out of this one...

My take is that if Putin is offered an easy way out that allows him to save face he will.

Say, Western Ukraine secedes, Eastern Ukr. merges with Russia via some sham plebiscite. The Crimea obviously stays in Russian hands...

And Vladimir Sese  Seko Putin goes home makes some more money...

As for the South Pars field, the Qataris don't need to export more gas for while, they are more than willing to the play the long game. The world will still be burning NG in 2060....

----

Don't fall into the fallacy of believing that events with tremendous reprecussions must be due to great actions of great men...An avalanche may be started by the tiniest of peebles falling...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:05 | Link to Comment doctor10
doctor10's picture

The bankers and the Fed "needed" Syria to go down last fal. Puty-Poo got in their way.

Payback is a bitch!!!!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:10 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sigh.....

Stupid is as stupid does...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:14 | Link to Comment yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

I agree about 70%.  Obama will try to broker a deal of some sort.  East Ukraine may change to West Russia (possible Syria sweetener), in exchange for tangible support from Russia as the TPP deals with China (maybe Russia will join?).  Will have to keep a lid on the Kuril Islands controversy.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:33 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Syria is a black hole and will be for the foreseeable future.  Western policy is currently all about containment of the damage. 

Think about it? Why remove Assad when what you will have is a power vacuum with nothing but wild cards and lunatics in place to fill it? There is noone that the West can credibly tap on the shoulder and say, we got your back but you have to hold this shitshow together...

I have no doubt that SA and other Sunni Gulf States would love to to be able to build a pipeline through there. But that is what is know as projection in these circles...

Hell, look the lesson from Iraq on the difficulty of building/maintaining hydrocarbon flows....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:12 | Link to Comment TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

How are the people of Alabama, Nevada or Michigan safer and more secure because the Federal government took our money and gave it to start a war in Syria by funding people who hate us?

Please explain it to me. 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:30 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Did if occur to you that you premises may be completely wrong?

I suggest you start learning a little Syrian history...

A good place to start is with Daddy Assad and what an Alawite is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Assad_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawite

-------

Next you should read up on a little place called Hama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama

and this "footnote"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre

You should be able to start putting the pieces together with that as an outline...

----

Syria is a basically a proxy war for the 1400 year old struggle between the Shia and Sunni forms of Islam...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:31 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Flak is a little govt shill. Obam lover and probably a clerk at the State Dept.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:34 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Reminds me of the chindit.__ character...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:47 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Freddie do you have anything intelligent to say or add?

I realize that the level of discourse is way beyond that exhibited in your usual Fox talking points inspired posts, but the adults are trying to have a discussion here....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 18:07 | Link to Comment Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

You a Jew, Flak?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Now that would be really rich given my avatar...

And assuming that I was, which I am not, what fucking difference would that make?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 04:35 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

I do not watch TV.  You obviously do.

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 10:19 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

For some that doesn't you show do sound like...

It must be that you get the Fox talking points in a daily e-mail...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:02 | Link to Comment earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

"... containment of the damage."   LOL. Damage that was facilitated by the US via it's Sunni proxy army.

"Think about it? Why remove Assad ...lunatics to fill it?"  LOL. Ask Barry why he removed QDaffi and created a power vacumn in Libya? Remember the response of Barry's administration? "We came, We saw, He died!" Look at the inferno in Libya. Barry used the Libyan template for Syria with similar results. "Mission Accomplished" because Barry's a phenominal nth degree chess player. LOL 

 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So what is it?

Is BHO some kind of geopolitical mastermind capable of removing dictators that have ruled with a iron fist for many years?

Or is he a bumbling clown getting out manuevered at every turn?

So who is Barry's stooge in Libya? Can you name him for us? How about Syria?

 

Edit: ~1 hour later still <crickets>  pretty much as I expected...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 14:30 | Link to Comment Hephaestus
Hephaestus's picture

More like an incompetent idiot who just happens to be at the helm of the worlds most powerful army and propoganda machines. If Putin had acces to the same mechanical and computer firepower he would be ruling the world in a month. The fact that Our govt keeps getting spanked by Russia is real proof that superior firepower without the intellect to use it correctly is worthless. I wouldnt be surprised at all if Russia uses this to grow a little or a lot!

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 16:06 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Spanked?? When did the US get spanked? Was it when Putin told Assad, get rid of the chemical weapons?

Putin allegedly already holds all the cards because of oil and gas? What happened?

Putin has the makings of a shitshow on his hands and while nobody denies that he could steamroll into the Ukraine, he could very likely end up the equivalent of "Kabul on the Dnieper"....

And if he doesn't keep the cheques flowing to the his equivalent of the 47% he could find things warming up a little closer to home. The Russian fiscal situation is not strong and Vlad can't print to satisfy his IOUs....

Ironically, if Russia starts dumping gold to pay the bills, the gold bugs here are going to take it up the ass....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:35 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Your guys understanding of geopolitics and diplomacy is almost comical...

Your faith in the official narrative is almost contemptible...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:41 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

While Putin certainly stopped more significant and overt NATO involvement  {pretty much no one but idiots like Flake doubt this} thus helped Assad, rather than the by now mostly foreign jihadis, remain the dominant power, Flake is right about it being an Obama victory in one sense:

The "rebels" did not give up their chemical weapons.  Despite having used them on civilians.

 

Something to really be proud of, Flake.  Dumb cunt.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Is that all you got...

To simply dodge issues and call me a cunt? 

I suggest you look in the mirror...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:54 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The "official" narrative is Assad has no chemical weapons and the Ukraine looks about to split like a ripe melon and nary a drop of American blood has been spilt nor a penny of treasure spent...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:20 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

nor a penny of treasure spent...

Five billion dollars is certainly not a penny, I'll grant you that.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:35 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Could you show me the reciept?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Wow, 5 billion dollars over 23 years...

Assuming that what this person is saying is correct, you are telling me that the US State Dept. was able to incite a Ukrainian revolution by spending an average of $5 a year per Ukrainian?

Wow, I never knew pulling the levers in the global Game of Thrones  could be so cheap....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 15:48 | Link to Comment Hephaestus
Hephaestus's picture

In the US 535 congressmen + 100 senators  + 1 president Rule over 300 million. YES 5 billion dollars is enough to start some trouble!

That would be 5,000,000,000/636 = 7,861,635 per represetative in the US.

Lets see about Ukraine

Legislative branch 450 seats.

Judicial branch 95 judges.

Chief of state 1 president.

5,000,000,000/546 = 9,157,509 per representative.

All you have to do is buy the government what the slaves think just doesnt matter.....until it does :)

 

 

 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 16:09 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

This is so naive as to be beneath a serious response....

Was it the Ukrainian Duma that was marching in the streets?

\facepalm

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:36 | Link to Comment Frostfan1
Frostfan1's picture

Interesting point Flak.  Part of the Putin legacy going forward will be Lenin statues getting toppled by their neighbors. 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yes, Putin knows he has to play his cards very well, as you know, this things have a way of spiriling out of hand. They are a lot of Russians that are fed up as well...

A heavy crackdown could backfire on him...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:02 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Spot on, the tiny pebble in 1914 was Gabriel Princeps. The question then is do the so called "great men" jump on the bandwagon to start their "great game of Armageddon"?... In 1914 they did.

Yesterday the pebble in MENA was the MURDER of Q-daffy behind Putin's back. And he said "I won't let you do that to Assad, 'cos he is part of my great game." Putin managed to change the West's agenda to make Assad the fall guy in the divide and rule "shia/sunni" standoff that had spilled over from GWB Iraq/Lebanon plays of old now to Syria under Bandar Sultan's and Qatar's Sunnite impulsion. This dirt pile of Pax Americana dystopia (to protect hegemonic control of THE oil patch) has been festering since 60 years.

Today the pebble is the Mafia style generalised Yanukovitch corruption trail now blatantly apparent, that knee jerked Meidan Square into eruption all the while Putin sang "Sochi Sochi".  Now Putin has to do damage control NOT ONLY for Ukraine's sake BUT ALSO to make sure that Meidan Square frolick does not come to St Petersburg or Moscow. DOn't underestimate the seething back lash amongst the young Russian generation against the Putin "neo stalinist" state and great Euroasian dream that is killing the economy of Russia. 

Yes some avalanches are overdue and all it takes is a pebble to start the stampede. 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You clearly understand the great game and you certainly do have a way with words...

I do think you gave Putin way too much credit though: If he could keep skimming Gazprom cash flows while not being forced to lose face he would.  Barry and the Boys gave him a chance to look like statesman while achieving thier goal and he jumped at it...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 15:55 | Link to Comment John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

Why does the Russian government SEEM more corrupt than the US government?

(1) The Russians practice old-fashioned corruption, cash in brown paper bags type corruption, whereas the cunt politicians in Washington are more sophisticated, most of their corruption is voted on by both houses of Congress and signed into law by the President, so we don't call it corruption.

(2) In Russia, the political class and the ruling class are one and the same, so you see Russian politicians getting enormously rich while in office. This doesn't happen as often in the US, not because US politicians are less corrupt, but because in the US the political class is not the ruling class. American politicians loot just as much as their Russian counterparts, but the proceeds don't end up in their own bank accounts, they end up in the bank accounts of Raytheon, Boeing, JP Morgan, etc. 

...there's equal corruption in both countries, it just takes different forms.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

That is not the issue....

What people here are incapable of understading is that I do not project my desired worldview in my posts. I only try to call it as I see it.  I pass no judgement and merely try call an evenhanded play-by-play...

Seems people have a hard time with that...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 15:42 | Link to Comment John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

"Syria is complete and utter shitshow, a Shia-Sunni cage match to the death. The perfect magnet for militant muslims of every stripe. Not even W. would think it wise to try "nationbuilding" there... Obama has basicially said, kill each other to your hearts content as we can't really stop you but chemical weapons are off the table." -- Not at all, Obama and the war party in the US government WANTED to intervene in Syria. They could care less about chemical weapons, except insofar as they provide a politically correct casus belli. But the Russians and (more importantly) the American public put a stop to their plans, thank god.

"My take is that is the people of the Ukraine are saying no mas.." -- With more than a little help from from the US government's Revolutions-R-US: the complex of taxpayer funded "pro-democracy" NGOs, along with official State department programs, and unofficial CIA programs, that fabricate "popular" uprisings to topple anti-American regimes like it's their job (O wait, it is their job). THAT SAID, the Russians are playing the same game from the other side, using all the "soft power" in their arsenal to support pro-Russian factions in Ukraine. Always remember: this is not a parable, there are no "good guys," just ruthless rational actors pursuing their various interests.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 16:25 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

How do you know that O wanted to directly intervene re: Assad?

Are you privy to Cabinent meetings? You ain't and I ain't so you simply don't know...

Everybody has an agenda and plays the propaganda card. I do not doubt that the Hawks wanted to intervene. That is what makes them Hawks....

Russia did no such thing. And O got what he wanted, chemical weapons off the table and Putin acquiesed....

And as I alluded to above, do you really think $5 billion over 23 years is going to topple the Ukraine? Really?

I agree, there are no obvious good guys, this is a real life Game of Thrones and it is played for keeps...

And the American people demand the US keep winning....

Once again, I only pass on my observations....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 17:16 | Link to Comment John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

No one knows for sure what Obama intended except Obama. But we confront the same problem whenever we try to guess anyone's motives. All we can do is infer motive based on behavior, and to my eyes it looked like Obama (read: those behind him who actually make policy, O doesn't control anything), were serious about war.

As for chemical weapons, if you believe the regime's high-minded humanitarian talk about WMDs, I've got some semi-dry land in Florida to sell you. No state EVER acts on humanitarian motives. That's only ever a pretext (think Yugoslavia). I think it's clear that the regime was using WMDs as an excuse to intervene (think Iraq and soon Iran), but when intervention became politically impossible, they settled for a face-saving deal about removing the chemical weapons. Again, we can't know their motives for sure, but that's how I see it.

THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY: the stated goal of the US vis a vis Syria for YEARS has been the removal of Assad, right? Now, how does taking his chemical weapons help achieve that goal? ...answer, it doesn't. He's still in power because of his conventional weapons, not his chemical weapons. So, why would the US care? ...answer, they didn't, it was an excuse.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 17:29 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are entitled to your opinion and you express it a helluva better than most here. Doesn;t mean I have to agree though....

-----

Out of curiousity, how do think it would play out if in in the chaos of the Syrian civil war, someone started lobbing gas shells into Isreal?  Do you really want to find out what goodies the Isrealis really have? Do you have any doubt that they would not go Old Testament on whomever the deemed responsible?

So when I say that containment of chemical weapons was an important factor in all this, I wasn't making shit up....

------

Could you point me to the document where the stated goal of the US was to remove Assad? Now, if you want to say the obvious that if the US had their druthers, someone other than Assad would be in power, then yes I would tend to agree...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 19:34 | Link to Comment John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

"Out of curiousity, how do think it would play out if in in the chaos of the Syrian civil war, someone started lobbing gas shells into Isreal?  Do you really want to find out what goodies the Isrealis really have? Do you have any doubt that they would not go Old Testament on whomever the deemed responsible?"

First, chemical weapons should not be called "weapons of mass destruction," not unless we're going to give the same designation to most conventional weapons, in which case the term loses all meaning. Artillery shells filled with mustard gas should not be classed with nuclear warheads or global pandemic-inducing biological agents. The kind of damage you can inflict with chemical weapons is (at best) comparable to the kind of damage you can inflict with conventional weapons. If Assad could lob gas-filled shells into Israel, he can lob high-explosive shells into Israel -- does it really matter whether the targets choke to death or explode? The point being, taking his chemical weapons didn't much alter his ability to harm Israel (or anyone else). SECOND, call me a cynic, but I think the US would love if it Assad attacked Israel (with chemical weapons or otherwise), as that would provide a pretext for intervention: which is also precisely why Assad would never attack Israel (or use chemical weapons on anyone).

"Could you point me to the document where the stated goal of the US was to remove Assad?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/assad-must-go-obama-says/2011/08/...

"President Obama and European leaders called Thursday for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to resign, after months of his violent crackdown on protesters. The rhetorical escalation was backed by new U.S. sanctions designed to undermine Assad’s ability to finance his military operation.

“The future of Syria must be determined by its people, but President Bashar al-Assad is standing in their way,” Obama said in a written statement. “For the sake of the Syrian people, the time has come for President Assad to step aside.”

...there have been dozens of similar statements made since the civil war began.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Did I refer to chemical weapons as WMD? At any time? Ever?

If you think that the US wants Israel to nuke Damascus or something similar, you have not thought very carefully about it...

That is a scenario to no ones benefit, unless you sure you are on the inside track for front row seats at the End of Days revival starring the Son of God...

And do you doubt for a moment that the Isrealis would not nuke any one using chemical weapons on them? Would you want to risk it? I for one wouldn't...

Assad know this as well and he wouldn't be the one lobbing the gas shells in any event. He doesn;t strike me as a man with a deathwish..

====

BTW, calling for a guy to resign is political fluff, no matter how hard the table is thumped... That is a far cry from removing... 

Lest you think I am naive, sure the CIA and what not have field agents and what not in every goddam country of consequence...

It is all part of the game...I don't like the game, maybe one day, we as a species won't feel the need to play it. But untill then  it is naive to live in denial about the basic human condition....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:24 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

They are not the one's that will go broke this time around.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:20 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

Is that where you go to learn about the birds and bee gees?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:49 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Man, fuck this country.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:14 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Diane Fienstien and Victoria Nudelman can stand out there and stop Vlad...if not them then Hillary to REALLY scare him.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:30 | Link to Comment Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

New Bolshevik purge in the offing?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:30 | Link to Comment semperfidelis
semperfidelis's picture

Where is the vodka and popcorn!!!

WW3

WW4 with stick and stones

ENJOY!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:46 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

WW 3 must be priced in...LOL

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:30 | Link to Comment jubber
jubber's picture

and of course Gold falls on this news!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:37 | Link to Comment Invinciblehandaxe
Invinciblehandaxe's picture

gold would drop even if an atomic bomb went off

but there's no manipulation just ask that shithead Jeffrey Christian

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:58 | Link to Comment 25or6to4
25or6to4's picture

Whaaaa? It's all baked in the cake buddy......don't you watch MSNBC?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:08 | Link to Comment Invinciblehandaxe
Invinciblehandaxe's picture

god forbid, i surely would make some money trading if i watched MSNBC

i love getting ripped by the system, it's like an anus play

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:18 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I watch CNN....mainly to see Erin Burnett get her eyeballs ripped out by Ted Nugent.

 

Uncle Ted is a certified mongrel.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:30 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

keepin an eye on the enemy - eh!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:45 | Link to Comment Invinciblehandaxe
Invinciblehandaxe's picture

daaamn she is a hpoa maybe i will reconsider my cable plan and so should she

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:32 | Link to Comment esum
esum's picture

tell vlad i need a little slack til after the election

obama is like a pigeon playing chess, knocking over all the pieces, then strutting around claiming victory

russia will move into crimea just like the 2 georgia states

obama will go to bed early for a fundraiser the next day

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:33 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Obama plays checkers.....Vlad plays chess.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:37 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

No, Obama eats the checkers.  (Attribution to another ZH'er for that observation)

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:10 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

queen = pipelines

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:15 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Obozo plays with himself, whilst Putin plays chess.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:46 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

Ohum waits for his instructions to appear through the teleprompter, Putin waits for Stalin to appear to him in a vodka fueled orgy with Chechen virgins he's had abducted like any ordinary serial murderer would

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:51 | Link to Comment Republi-Ken
Republi-Ken's picture

IDIOT.

Why do you think the uprising happened in the middle of the Sochi Olympics???

DUH!!!

Because it was timed that way dummy.

Putin had to agree to everything and take no action to stop it.

OBAMA 1.  PUTIN Humiliated.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 15:10 | Link to Comment matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Obama plays Angry Bird..... Vlad plays chess!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:38 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

US launches military drill on the other side of the globe and it's a non-story.

Anyone else see a problem?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:41 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Anyone else see a problem?

The slow-motion eagle and the slow-motion flag waving in the breeze are blocking the view.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:45 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

Well the night owl never got a fair shake.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:42 | Link to Comment nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Was it Belgium that did away with its battle tank division? Smart move ...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:51 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Not in the corporate media:  CIA paramilitary and possibly JSOC "advisors" on the ground in Ukraine.. the neocon testing ground for Russia itself.

Of course, they may have their hands full in coming weeks with their erstwhile useful idiot Nahtzee allies...  strange bedfellows, indeed...

-Many of the Ukrainian groups listed in the Nazi-generated CIA report were part of the so-called "Captive Nations" movement centered in Washington that sought to mobilize nationalist partisans against the Soviet Union in post-World War II central and eastern Europe. Many of the ideological forbears of the current Ukrainian opposition to President Viktor Yanukovych hail from these Cold War ranks.

- Among the Ukrainian groups identified by the Nazis as potential allies of the CIA was the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). One of the inheritors of the OUN's political dogma is the far right-wing neo-Nazi Svoboda movement of Oleh Tyahnybok.

- Tyahnybok has been a frequent guest of U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, who is Jewish and an ardent Zionist who has spent an inordinate amount of time attending Holocaust remembrance events in Ukraine since taking up his post. Tyahnybok has also been mentioned along with opposition leaders Vitali Klitschko, an ex-boxer, and Arseniy Yatsenyuk as a potential member of a post-Yanukovych government that will take its orders from Washington and the European Union. -   CIA‘s Use of Nazi Strategy on Ukrainian Right-Wing Nationalists Unabated since Cold War

Naturally, all this fuckery is strictly about democracy, and the childrens.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:24 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Along with puffing up a recalcitrant flaming homosexual into a War Time President not seen since the likes of FDR and Lincoln.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:52 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

JCB, who are you shilling for?

Or are you just a sick puppy with serious anger issues? 

Did you ever get back to us and finish explaining the Auschwitz death toll? Last time I  looked, you didn't. Here I will remind you:

The Nazi Holocaust of Jews was greatly overstated for political gains. [recall that the Auschwitz figures were adjusted down by some millions 

 

Quote taken from here

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Nice threadjack - from the link already provided, which you apparently did not read:

Jewish and Polish scholars of the Holocaust now agree that the Auschwitz death toll was less than half the four million cited here for four decades.

- http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-07/news/9202100662_1_death-wa... 

I also mentioned the Katyn Forest massacre, blamed on the Germans for decades.  This, even though the Germans had themselves invited in the press and Red Cross shortly after they began exhuming the corpses, in an area of Poland then recently taken from the Soviets.

You lack the brains and the honesty to play "gotchya" Flake.  Your claim is that the death of 6 million Jews is not only not questionable, you also claim that the only motivation for doing so is "hate". You further tacitly claim that every other aspect of WW2 is open to revision - but thisAnd you have provided no evidence for any of your claims.  You have not even bothered to address the basic issue as to why, given the two examples I provided [and there are others, Flake], why only 1 aspect of that part of history is "settled" and "off limits" to honest inquiry.

See, Flake, you're a fairly dumb guy, I no where asserted a number - the entire argument, which you either avoided, or were too dumb to grasp, goes to historiography and the philosophy of history.  Scholars currently put the figure closer to 5 million than to 6.  It isn't "rounding up", this number was settled on quite early, earlier than it would have been possible to get anything like an accurate count.  Indeed, there are multiple news paper articles claiming "6 million" Jews were at risk years before wwii, in a period, by the way, in which there was a great deal of Jewish emigration from Germany to Israel, [edit: Mandate Palestine] and elsewhere.  Yet everyone "knows""6 million Jews" were killed  {but no one knows how many people the Bolsheviks murdered, or the Red Chinese, or even how many American soldiers/Marines, etc. died in that war.}

6 million is literally a magickal, sacred number.  And such numbers are rarely accurate.

It may, in fact, be close to the figure largely settled on now.  But your position is there is no good faith basis to further research it or argue against it - in a war that was replete with abject propaganda later exposed as deliberate lies  {e.g. lampshades made of skin, soap made of human fat, etc.}.   Denigrating the enemy or the deposed by the successor or victor is a deep problem of history.

Your question is why this figure, six million, given all of the above, can not be doubted or questioned by anyone, given the stark revisions to the record which have already happened.  You can either answer it or you can not. If you are unable to answer this query, I have no interest in your predictable bloviating about your apodictic knowledge claims.

Answer or don't - the point really is that you do not have an answer.  Don't you get that - yet?

If you can't or won't answer, I really don't have any interest in further exchanges.  Your sort of comment board cuntery just gets tedious after a while.

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Frostfan1
Frostfan1's picture

If you think the numbe is closer to 5 million, just say so.  6 million sticks because that's what was first reported.  The number to the millions isn't what I have to explain to my kids.  It's that my great grandparents were sent to Treblinka on my mother's side and a great uncle on my father's side  were never heard from again after the war.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I wonder if the fucks that junked you ever had one of their relatives vanish or knew someone who had a serial number tatooed on their arm...

I just pulled the scab here at ZH and what you are seeing is festering hate filled pus oozing out...

JCB is only the latest incarnation of it...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:58 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

You see the hate in your own eyes, cunt.  You are too hate-filled to even grasp my position.  You keep arguing against statements I haven't actually made.

Again, you really are a dumb person.  You really don't understand anything outside your simplistic view of any matter.  It's all binary thinking and presuppositions.

 

You know nothing about the study of history, and have not addressed - STILL - the query put to you.

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Lets see's  how you did here paragraph by paragraph:

1) Call me a cunt  (check)

2) Call me dumb and simplistic (check)

3) Say I know nothing of history (check)

The way I see it, you scored 100% on the ad hominem scale...

Strip them away and you got absolutely nothing....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 19:59 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

ypu missed a couple items which are mainfestly not ad hominem.  Mostly because of 1) and 2) supra....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 20:38 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Zzzzz...

BTW, Fuck you....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

I don't know what the number is.  The point is neither does Flake.  The point is that there is no historiographical reason to close off this single aspect of World War 2 other than political pressure not to question it.

Which suggests to some that there may be something to hide.

6 million was reported before WWII even got started. 

People know that Germany invaded Poland but few know that the Soviets invaded about 10 days later - committing massacres.  Yet despite the alleged origins of the conflict - Britain and France did not declare war on the Soviets, and the Allies let the Soviets keep all of Poland [and other nations] after the conflict.

Suggesting it wasn't really {or primarily} about the invasion of Poland.

And yes Frost - Hitler and Nazis bad.  But I'm for free speech and free inquiry. Flake is for shouting "Nazi" at people and deciding, without evidence, that certain historical issues are closed to good faith investigation. 

This allows flake to feel he's in a Brad Pitt movie, but all he's doing is failing to grasp an argument repeatedly tendered to him so that he can try to appear "the good guy" by knocking down straw men.  He presupposes far too much and understand far too little - the hallmark of a sloppy, juvenile thinker.

And for the record, a lot of my relatives, both sides of the family - fought and died in World War 2 for reasons having nothing to do with defending the United States.  Tens of millions of people died.

All of them matter.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Beg pardon? Where did you get this gem?

6 million was reported before WWII even got started.  

Could you please elaborate??

-------

And even my teenage son knows about the Von Ribbbentrop-Molotov pact and Soviet invasion of Poland... BTW, it was 15 days after...

-----

Could you point out a single strawman I have used? Go ahead and produce the quote... 

And the only one shouting Nazi appears to be you....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:41 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Johnny Cocknballs, I'm kind of losing my patience with you

it's simple: before WWII, we had some nine million Jews in continental Europe. after WWII/today, one million. those are undeniable facts

even if this little change of frigging 8 million was due to them fleeing persecution only, it would still be a huge crime for itself

so what is your frigging point? if you have a better number than 6 million dead, then answer Flakmeister

btw, Poland was a (arguably fascist) dictatorship also keen on persecuting Jews

and have you any idea how many pogroms we had here for hundreds of years? and what about all the other persecuted minorities?

and for the record, my relatives fought on the losing side of this conflict

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

And I with you.  Read 4479786 Carefully. Also see 4480168

I am not obligated to answer questions about topics or positions I did not even assert, particularly when early on, I posed a query which has remained, repeatedly, unanswered.

If you don't see the point, please stop litigating against whatever position you are imagining I promulgated.You are proceeding as if I never crafted the earlier posts.

This is an exercise in cognitive psychology at this point.  I intended it as an open discussion of historiography, [and the philosophy of history, and epistemology] and presented examples of revisions, making an inquiry as to how the official figure has not only achieved apodictic certainty, but that it is the only apodictic datum in all of history and that any doubt or further inquiry about it is not only misguided, but necessarily only hate.  All assertions which were presented without any evidence or argument whatsover.

I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this. 

It's the last I'll comment on it until what I was asking about is addressed. I have been exceedingly patient.

 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The only thing you exceeded at it being disingenuous and evasive...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 18:40 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

I asked you to respond to my query hours ago.  Again and again you avoid responding to it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-26/putin-launches-military-drill-w...

You have misused the term "strawmen" and accused me of doing what you are doing {i.e. being 'disingenuous' 'evasive'}.  Your claim that the Katyn incident wasn't 'relevant' - as I indicated - meant that you didn't understand why I mentioned it.  Maybe you need to read it more slowly.  Answer my query and I'll answer anything you like. But not before you evidence a shred of understanding of my post.

Otherwise, kindly shut the fuck up.

We both know you won't answer my query to you in your next response.  Because you are unable to do so.

Which was  {I'll let you in on a secret} - really my point.  I've dealt with people like you before. But I'll check in later/tomorrow to see in what new and predictable way you avoid responding to the questions asked of you. Again.

I can win by your ongoing forefeit, or I can win by your feeble response.  I'm betting you'll continue to choose the foreit route because that way you risk less embarrassment.  Awwwwww...

Nighty night, cunt.

 

 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 20:37 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Still twisting in the wind and obfuscating...

And I see you are back into your cunt mode...

BTW, Katyn within this context is the very definition of a strawman... 

Answer the simple question and I will reply to yours...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

JCB.

 

Strange coincidence around 6M and the Jewish people. Only 140 times ..counted here.

http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaus...

There was a better article. This was the one I pulled up quickly.

Is it the new norm for mentally outgunned sheep to cry ad hominem? I think so...they only use it when it supports their agenda. Its really bad when they use all ad hominem argument, then you resort to a verbal ad hominem jab and they scream ad hominem. I have had it happen in person a couple times. Its really fucking annoying. Listen up you socialist fuck, quit using our shit out of context to justify your delusions.

 

Fuck.

 

RIPS

 

 

 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:47 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Nothing but misdirection and spin from you along with some gratuitous ad homs....

The Katyn Forest massacre is not relevant to this discussion. Why do you keep clinging to it? It has been known for years that Stalin was able to deflect that on to the Nazis. As heinous as the murder of 20,000 Polish army officers was, it is not on the same plane as the systematic liquidatation of civilians on the basis of their cultural identity...  

Answer a very simple question, how many Jew do you think died in the Holocaust? You have said that it was overestimated by millions for political purposes. All I am asking is for you to clarify your statement...

Buddy, this is what is known as being accountable for your actions and words. A hallmark of a free and just society...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

last chance, I won't redirect you again:

 

Your question is why this figure, six million, given all of the above, can not be doubted or questioned by anyone, given the stark revisions to the record which have already happened.  You can either answer it or you can not. If you are unable to answer this query, I have no interest in your predictable bloviating about your apodictic knowledge claims.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Quit creating strawmen, you fool no one:

I simply asked you given that you claimed the toll was over estimated by millions for political purposes, how many Jews were exterminated in the Holocaust?

Again here is your quote

The Nazi Holocaust of Jews was greatly overstated for political gains. [recall that the Auschwitz figures were adjusted down by some millions 

Quote taken from here

 

So what do you think the "official" total should be?  

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

 

 

The Katyn Forest massacre is not relevant to this discussion

This tells me you have been unable to grasp my position at all.  You just keep shouting nazi nazi hitler like you're some guardian of truth and justice.

What you are is a dumb cunt who has kept trying to twist away from a query he is unable to sensibly answer.

I proved the point I intended to make... better than I anticipated being able to make it.

it just took more time and energy than Intended.  I care little that you will continue to confuse platitudes for insight, and strawmen for polemics.

 

Check and mate, Flake.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You only wish...

Claiming victory is pretty pathetic...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:03 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Nothing but misdirection and spin from you along with some gratuitous ad homs....

...said the ad hominem spewing cretin that misdirected the thread into a discussion of Auschwitz.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:17 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

This is fight club, stay the fuck out of it...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Answer a very simple question, how many Jew do you think died in the Holocaust? You have said that it was overestimated by millions for political purposes.

No, I said the death toll was overestimated "by millions" - which it was, and I provided the link regarding the revision down, by millions, of the death toll at Auschwitz specifically.  This was absolutely clear. There is no question the death toll was revised down by millions. I nowhere said that the death toll of Jews was overestimated "by millions".  No where. 

The link was provided twice and discussed three times now.  So you either did not understand this, or you are deliberately being deceptive.  Katyn is of course relevant to the query [queries really, but they are inter-related] you refuse to respond to.  You don't get to ask me more questions over and over when you refuse to answer mine.

Okay, now I'm really off, after some delay unfucking someone else's fuckery. As noted in my 2 prior replies, I await your continued inability to respond and further efforts at evading the repeated request to respond before demanding more answers to more and more questions - like an abject cunt.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-26/putin-launches-military-drill-w...

I'd love to see you try to respond.  You are a fly in a web, little girl, and you still don't know it.

What will you do? More of the same, or will you go back and try to address what was asked of you?

 

I'm quite certain you won't, because you can not, but are afraid to admit you don't understand what you are being asked.

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:19 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

JCB well done, man.
Flak: LOL you idiot

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:51 | Link to Comment post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

it's not in the corp media because the "story" comes from Wayne Madsen... no one trusts what that fucking tool has to say because he has no credibility whatsoever, he's a nut with an axe to grind... I guess I would be too if my grandma got kicked out by the FBI for being a commie pinko fifth column shitheel and my CO consistenly found me unfit for duty or promotion...

I've decided I'm just going to junk your ass on principle at this point... backing suspect motives with shoddy analysis and dubious sources is no way to go through life and you sure as hell aren't fooling me... Nazi Joos are behind it all, yeah whatever fool

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Show me where I said "Nazi Joos are behind it all"?

So nothing Madsen says on the matter is correct, and the CIA hasn't been active in overthrowing governments and active in the recent fuckery in Ukraine, and there are no other sources that will basically support Madsen's story?

I just grabbed a link, I didn't go Madsen hunting, and I am not familiar with him.  I do not buy your claims about him.  The idea a thing is false because you don't like who said it is a fallacy.

And I'm pretty sure you didn't spend any time reading about the CIA's embrace of right wing {real right wing} fascist types {real fascists} in prior color revolutions.  Yoiu just kinda decided, all on your lonesome, what the truth of the matter is, eh?

Well, I'm pretty sure, ....very sure, actually, Madsen has it basically right at least on this stuff.

Junk away, little girl.

 

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:46 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

DRILL BABY DRILL!!!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:48 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

War is a distraction, like everything else. Maintain constant chaos, skirmishes around the world. No up, no down, no right, no wrong. Simply gauging every day what would appear to be in one's best interest. No future. The future is a threat, so ignore it. Quit fucking around and just roll the dice!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:50 | Link to Comment Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Putin's readying his military against the Ukraine.

Obama's readying his military against us.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:40 | Link to Comment kenezen
kenezen's picture

Great comment!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:01 | Link to Comment Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

I know this skates close to the Godwin Law, but I'm reading a book called "Twighlight of the Gods:  the decline and fall of the German General Staff in WWII" by David Stone.  Interesting series of events that led to Adolph's absolute power over a representative republic...note, no modern analogies appear as matching in scale.

1934:  30 June-Die nacht der langen messer (night of the long knives):  The Schutzstaffel (SS) murder a wide variety of threats to the Fuhrer's power, including the hard-to-control left wing Sturmabteilungen (SA, AKA brownshirts) leadership such as Ernst Rohm as well as conservative opponents such as retired Army Commanding General and ex-Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher and General Ferdinand von Bredow. 

1934:  Soldier's Oath changed from obediance to the Constitution to:

"I swear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."

1938:  Blomberg-Fritsh Crisis:  Two prominent Army General Staff Generals fired due to their conservative opposition to Hitler's plans for expansion.  It wasn't enough to fire them though, they had to be weakened by accusations of homosexuality against Fritsh, and a scandalous marriage for Blomberg. 

1938:  A General Staff coup plot originating in opposition to Hitler's plans for Czechoslovakia collapses when France and Britain betray the Czechs at Munich.  Germany swallows Sudetenland, and in 1939 invades the remaining rump of Czechoslovakia and dismembers it. 

1938:  16 Army generals are relieved of command and another 44 senior commanders are transferred to other duties.  Their replacements are considered "more politically reliable" by Hitler and Himmler.  From that point on, any real opposition to Hitler within the Army evaporates or is rendered impotent due to the rising power of the Gestapo and SS. 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Not even close to Godwins Law...

It is merely recounting the steps of how one man co-opted control of a hitherto "independent" institution... A blue print if you you like. You could quibble that the Enabling Act played a role....

In the U.S., the President is already de facto "Commander in Chief"....

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:30 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Flak, you of all people, should know all about Godwin's law.  As is your custom, you are wrong.

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

Godwin's law was correctly invoked, as the Reductio Ad Hitlerum would be correctly ascribed to a goodly portion of your posts.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

You also have to remember Godwin's Law is not a logic fallacy argument, or an actual law of mathematics.  To quote Mike Godwin:  "

"Godwin's law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. "Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust", Godwin has written.[11]"

Another thing to consider about looking at the Hitler timeline and actual actions (and the reasons for those actions) is that it is a very useful exercise that meets Godwin's intent to prevent "glibly comparing someone else to Hitler."  I'd argue one of the reasons it is useful to exam actions on a timeline scale is that Hitler isn't some one-time Human anomaly; he's an example of extreme demagoguery and sociopathic lust for power that unfortunately appears to be a permanent trait we can never extinguish, but only guard against.  You could probably make the same type of timeline examination of Napoleon, the Spanish Hapsburgs, Henry VIII, Ghenghis Khan, Attila, Augustus, Ceasar and Pompey, Sulla, Alexander, and the myriad of the Cradle of Civilization Kings and Emperors of the ancient Middle East, Egypt, India and China. 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Very well stated...

\hattip

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 14:35 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Right. I understand this. The point is the OP fairly made reference to the term. Your second p is interesting but the term is largely used in internet comment boards. Taken at face value, idea is that the longer a thread gets the more the chance of a reference to the Nazis/Hitler. It is sometimes incorrectly used in the sense of "Argumentum Ad Hitlerum" which is a fallacy.  An informal one.

As to the second p, or a part of it, the arguments as to whether Hitler or the Holocaust are 'unique' depend how you frame it, as with most of history.  There is good reason to consider it unique, the danger is that by promoting it as unique, {this is the common argument anyway} you by the process denigrate the many other large scale massacres as well as forget just how common massacres have been across time and space.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Thanks for the discussion.  In general I agree with the concept (of Godwin's Law); I just hate how it's used to end discussion rather than allow detailed look at how absolute power is acquired.  Reminds me too much of cries of racism or anti-semitism to end discussion/character assassination of one side of an argument.  I am more of a "is the argument true or false" person and don't give a fook if the advocate of the argument is a devil or a saint.  Although hypocrisy is kind of a drag to any argument (like U.S. lecturing others to respect country X's sovereignty"). 

I admit personally I get a little squeamish about deconstruction of the Holocaust, no doubt a deeply ingrained cultural programming trait.  What the Japanese did in China, what Mao did to China, or what we did to the Native Americans equal and surpass the death toll of the Holocaust, not too mention Russian civilian and military deaths in WWII at the hands of the Wehrmacht, SD and SS forces.  I think it is horror at the cold near-scientific methods of the Nazis against Jews, Poles, Czechs, Slavs, Roma and other of their racial targets that makes the Holocaust resonate and the others don't.  Or more Hollywood movies. 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:16 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Obama's readying his military against us."-  You mean that volunteer military composed of us?

Folks in my unit sure as hell won't be attacking our friends and neighbors.

You must be talking about the Federal Reserve Bank military (they do have one now, thanks to the taxpayer)

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:33 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

Three cheers for Physics Phreedom Phighters!

 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:57 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Captain Insano speaks!

I mean "and then what" you clowns?
This will plunge all of Europe into total chaos.

It's a wonder the Dow isn't at 25,000 right now.
If I didn't know any better I'd say this guy is CIA.

In any case...there goes the defense cuts in the USA.
Once they roll into Kiev you can't stop there.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

You think Obama's going to reverse his cuts to the military?

If anything, this will pursuade him that he didn't cut deeply enough. "Oooh. Vlad's feeling threatened. We need to give him more "flexibility." Cut another 4 divisions, Hagel!"

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

... well, you're dumb.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:36 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

and, have to appreciate the fact that as the U.S. propaganda machine tells the population that the size of the military is shrinking, the use of corporate mercenaries continues to rise sharply.  not to mention proxy armies of barbaric radicals groomed by the CIA.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:32 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The US should be so lucky.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 08:58 | Link to Comment Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture

A nice little war to stave off the impending recession.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

A nice little war as an excuse for the impending depression.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:01 | Link to Comment 2muchtax
2muchtax's picture

This is like Rocky vs. Ivan... except it's Barry vs. Ivan

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:25 | Link to Comment messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

Its really Putin vs. Nettyjoohoo or more like Lord Rottenchild and the Rabies. Barry is really just the waterboy and fluffer. As far as Zion goes Russians been there, done that while Americans are still fast asleep at the wheel and firmly in Zionist control, waiting for the worst to happen. The Zionists are hopping mad after Putin booted their oligarchs, locked them out of Russian resource plundering, and de-zionized the Russian press. Geopolitical chess match been on for some time, the Zions have always been good players, they learned from the best, Satan, but Putins pretty good too.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:06 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

so black swans don't come out "nowhere" anymore?

gray swans...

all predictable, so it seems.

side note, buy china at 2,000>so predictable

like buying nikkei at 10,000

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:06 | Link to Comment Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

This is just adding lipstick to the Ukraine situation.  Russia wants its loans to be paid and Eastern Ukraine Oligarchs to have increased business (in order to facilliate Russian-Ukrainian trade).  Basically, it is saying to the EU to ante up a financial package (buy Russia off).

In 4 years, Russia will take back the pieces for pennies on the dollar.  There is no Napolean to rescue this French Revolutionary Mob.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:09 | Link to Comment jubber
jubber's picture

so a $13 drop in Gold on this positive news now

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:15 | Link to Comment PHantomofthemarkets
PHantomofthemarkets's picture

Contrary to other nations Putin will not start a war. He is much smarter then that. He also knows exactly the strength of his country. And the weaknesses of the others.
He just wants to be prepared for what others might start (they are not so smart...)

More rubles for oil and gaz!

I think he sometimes wonder whether they are pulling his leg or whether they really aren't smarter on the other side.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:38 | Link to Comment kenezen
kenezen's picture

An insightful comment!

Sat, 03/01/2014 - 11:53 | Link to Comment Comte d'herblay
Comte d&#039;herblay's picture

Apparently there are sufficient numbers of people who DO want to ally with Russia once again and not participate in an alliance with Europe instead.

There should be a peaceful way for free association to take place without shedding one drop of blood, or forcing a part of the state to keep on with Ukraine.

We had that happen here in 1861 when Abe Lincoln---an unindicted war criminal along with his arch enemy Jeff Davis---decided they knew best and look what happened.

12 yrs of reconstruction, a lasting segregation that engendered even more death and destruction after the War between the states, and untold atrocities across the southern landscape that could have been completely avoided had the South Carolinians been allowed their right to freely associate. 

This Omnipotence that power mongers wish to lord over everyone, even it if involves greater crimes than slavery, war, and genocide while they run off with all the pelf, is an unparalleled indictment of some men, whose diseased minds are permitted to exercise their wills when assassination by a vigilante would be a blessing. 

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:22 | Link to Comment Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

Let's say Putin is actually going to invade.

What does that get him? The people may or may not fight back, but the one thing they're certain to do is go on nationwide strike. Ukraine will be in shambles, and will act as a stone around Russia's neck as it will require constant infusions of cash. If Putin wants Ukraine, he's going to pay for it one way or another.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:39 | Link to Comment 2muchtax
2muchtax's picture

All of the EU is heated with Nat Gas from Russia via Ukraine.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

...and your point is what?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:30 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

his avatar.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:16 | Link to Comment PHantomofthemarkets
PHantomofthemarkets's picture

He forgot to mention half of the EU industry is running on Russian gas.

He also forgot to mention way more then half of the EU fuel is coming from Mister Putin.

Really, anyone who thinks they have reached anything against Putin is a dumb ass.

Only reason why this could be happening is that someone has some plans in Syria. IF that is not the reason then it is about the dumbest move in history.

And don't forget, Putin could easily close all gas and oil lines to Europe for a very long time. It will not affect them that much, they have good trustfell partners on the east side who love gas and oil.

Poor EU! They have no idea what is happening, will take a knock out and a couple of years later they are wondering what happened.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:07 | Link to Comment Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

So Europe has to decide which is more important...natural gas, or Ukrainian prostitutes to man their redlight booths.  Talk about a Catch 22!

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Russia or Gazprom has two or three backup routes.

 

1. Through the Balkans to N Italy and Austria

2. Through the Black Sea undersea line to S Italy

3. Through Scandinavia

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 11:40 | Link to Comment Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

All true, but who's threatening to shut off the pipelines?

Ukraine? What would that gain them?

Russia? So they're going to teach Ukraine a lesson by shutting off the gas that Ukraine has already 80% refused to buy?

 

Who said anything about anyone shutting off the gas?

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:21 | Link to Comment PHantomofthemarkets
PHantomofthemarkets's picture

Ukrain nazis are a bunch of thieves. They will steal gas, not like they didn't do that before.

And I think their dearest uncle Vlado has enough of this childish tricks and will react the Russian way. Kick them out, close the gas and let them suffer until they come begging with a couple bottles of wodka.

The Balkan route and the Black Sea route, isn't that the same? Southstream pipe from Russia thorugh the Black Sea to Bulgaria from where it goes into the Balkans.

But they are only starting to build it this year so it will not be in use the first year or 2. Uncle Vlado off course might speed up things a bit...

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:38 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

This is my smug face :)
This is my sad face :(
This is as fucking predictable as a bunch of kohn dancers performing the Ramayana
Only the cast is butt fugly
What a waste, I might as well actually work today

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 09:50 | Link to Comment rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

So is Russia going to shit or get off the pot?

I'd hate to see Putin be the next Kim Jong-Un.

I'd love to see Russia totally blow the US and EU's plans out of the water but I certainly feel sorry for all the people of Ukraine who are surrounded by hungry wolves.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 10:36 | Link to Comment 22winmag
22winmag's picture

It's a good thing we unilaterally gave up our Minuteman missiles.

 

Clearly we would never have needed them in a time of crisis.

Wed, 02/26/2014 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture
  • Exercise to be conducted Feb. 26-March 3 in 2 stages

Hey Flakmeister I think this means sending those "blackholes" to the Med for some simulated "short fire" drills.

Better secure those nuclear reactor(s) and get everything under lockdown in "Dimona" -Just in case!  I'm sure the missile defense shield in Negev works like a charm!

You've been through this drill before, just like the first Gulf War only more of a "crucial test" this time with thermonuclear warheads!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!