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Supreme Court Rules Police May Search A Home Without Obtaining A Warrant

Tyler Durden's picture




 

If the most disturbing, if underreported, news from yesterday, was Obama's "modification" of NSA capabilities, which contrary to his earlier promises, was just granted even greater powers as phone recording will now be stored for even longer than previously, then this latest development from the Supreme Court - one which some could argue just voided the Fourth amendment - is even more shocking. RT reports that the US Supreme Court has ruled that police may search a home without obtaining a warrant despite the objection of one occupant if that occupant has been removed from the premises. With its 6 to 3 decision in Fernandez v. California on Tuesday, the Court sided with law enforcement’s ability to conduct warrantless searches after restricting police powers with its 2006 decision on a similar case.

From RT:

In 2009, the Los Angeles Police Department sought suspect Walter Fernandez, believed to have stabbed someone in a violent gang robbery. When police first arrived at the suspect’s home, they heard yelling and screaming before Fernandez’s live-in girlfriend Roxanne Rojas answered the door, appearing “freshly bruised and bloody,” and with an infant in hand, according to argument recap by SCOTUSblog.

 

Fernandez was spotted by police, and said, “Get out. I know my rights. You can’t come in.” Yet police arrested him on charges of domestic violence. Later, once Fernandez was out of the home, police asked Rojas for permission to conduct a search, which yielded evidence implicating Fernandez in the robbery.

Probable cause or probable loss of all civil rights?

The Court’s decision justified the police actions, with Justice Samuel Alito writing the majority’s position.

 

“A warrantless consent search is reasonable and thus consistent with the Fourth Amendment irrespective of the availability of a warrant,” Alito wrote. He added that “denying someone in Rojas’ position the right to allow the police to enter her home would also show disrespect for her independence.”

 

Alito was joined in the majority by Justices Breyer, Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas.

 

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg – joined in the minority by Justices Kagan and Sotomayor, marking a gender divide among the Justices in the case – wrote the dissenting opinion, calling the decision a blow to the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits “unreasonable searches and seizures.”

 

“Instead of adhering to the warrant requirement,” Ginsburg wrote, “today’s decision tells the police they may dodge it, nevermind ample time to secure the approval of a neutral magistrate.” Tuesday’s ruling, she added, “shrinks to petite size our holding in Georgia v. Randolph.”

 

Georgia v. Randolph was a similar case the Supreme Court addressed in 2006, in which a domestic violence suspect would not allow police to enter his home, though his wife did offer police consent. The police ultimately entered the home. The Court ruled in the case that the man’s refusal while being present in the home should have kept authorizes from entering.

 

A physically present inhabitant’s express refusal of consent to a police search [of his home] is dispositive as to him, regardless of the consent of a fellow occupant,” the majority ruled in that case.

 

In addressing Randolph in the majority opinion, Alito wrote that the difference between that case and Fernandez was the physical presence of the suspect.

 

“Our opinion in Randolph took great pains to emphasize that its holding was limited to situations in which the objecting occupant is physically present,” he wrote.

 

“We therefore refuse to extend Randolph to the very different situation in this case, where consent was provided by an abused woman well after her male partner had been removed from the apartment they shared.”

 

Prior to Randolph and Fernandez, the Court ruled in the 1974 case United States v. Matlock that any one of the co-tenants in a home can consent to a police search of the premises.

Well there goes the fourth amen... oh look, over there: it's another all time high in the S&P 500. On paper, those who hold stocks have never been richer. Everyone else, barricade your doors, and the police come knocking, don't even bother answering - they will come in anyway. And also prepare your guns for return to the government: that particular "constitutional" amendment is the next to go.

 

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Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:10 | 4486481 unrulian
Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:23 | 4486515 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

While not using a webcam may protect you from the action described in that article, it's likely not enough. The webcam of a compromised machine can quite easily be turned on, and any sort of indications that it is active, such as an LED, can quit easily be disabled. If your machine has a built in webcam, put tape over the lens. You might want to cove up the mic too, for good measure.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:25 | 4486544 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

This is BS. A cop can now BREAK INTO your house...steal your money, fondle your woman, kick your dog...and then PLANT some drugs and say you are a guilty criminal and theres nothing in the law that can prove you are innocent. Fuck this, I rather go to Ukraine where at least I have my goddamn right to decide which side I want to be on.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:27 | 4486558 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

I think you're replying to the wrong comment, champ.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:29 | 4486575 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

No newbro...i just like to put my comment as high up as possible to get maximum exposure.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:32 | 4486591 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Ah, I see. Kinda fucks up the flow of the conversation, but whatever.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:35 | 4486606 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Lets meet up at the hard rock cafe and put and end to this.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:43 | 4486652 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

its ok...jmp will learn the rules of fight club pretty quickly I think. Cut him some slack.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 18:49 | 4486666 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Actually, I've learned that you guys don't understand how threads work. Your rationale is easy to grasp, but the outcome? Sloppy, unstructured conversation involving a bunch of attention whores yearning for the top spot.

Welcome to Internet Slapfight Club BITCH

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:00 | 4486728 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Spitball scalped the baby.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:28 | 4487004 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

He's been here all of 3 weeks!

Hmm, what might that mean?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:45 | 4487045 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

If you're implying that I'm some kind of police/spook--as others have already done--they've already outwitted you. Anything electronic can be tampered with. They have the keys to the kingdom; they can be anyone on ZH with any regdate. If they please, they can seize control of ZH in its entirety without you having any fucking clue. If you think your enemy is stupid, take the time to ponder the engineering effort that went into constructing the electronic surveillance state. They are anything but.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:53 | 4487065 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Anything else or have you shot your whole load?

Nothin' new about your 'revelations' here, mate.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:01 | 4487093 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Strange, because a lot of the chatter I see is demonstrably ignorant.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:12 | 4487127 Cleveland Steamer
Cleveland Steamer's picture

I'm sure everyone will jump through hoops just to impress you. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:15 | 4487138 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

It's not about jumping through hoops, it's about ending misinformation.

First post of the thread: "turn of your webcams"

There ya go, demonstrably bad advice.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:24 | 4487161 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Why are you posting numerous replies to a thread you consider irrelevant?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:29 | 4487176 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Hmm? Maybe I came unhinged and said something I didn't mean, or typoed something. Dispelling misinformation is important, even if it means being "that guy".

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:36 | 4487208 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Doesn't being "that guy" just add to the distraction and misinformation you say you want to dispel in this context?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:52 | 4487263 philipat
philipat's picture

I see. So the MO now is to arrest the person who says no, then remove him/her from the scene, then enter. Cute.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:38 | 4487389 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Arrest them for what, though?  Saying no?

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:43 | 4487431 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

this story reminds me of that old knock-knock joke

Knock knock!

Who's there?

Open the fucking door or we'll kill you!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:57 | 4487465 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Su casa es mi casa. bitchez

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:21 | 4487792 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"And also prepare your guns for return to the government: that particular "constitutional" amendment is the next to go."

Mine are "prepared", molon labe.  Keep a close eye on CT.  Looks like the first shot will be fired there.  They can't say they didn't see it coming:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2014/02/open-letter-to-legisl...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:50 | 4487839 Mr. Crisp
Mr. Crisp's picture

What was that article the other day about gov't agencies creating trolls?

Well, it looks like they sent out a new one.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:05 | 4487969 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Warrant-less searches. And so, finally, the circle is complete.

Can't imagine why "the land of the free" keeps playing in my head. Must be insomnia or some other mental disorder. Oh, well.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:59 | 4487293 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

What's the alternative? Let bad advice fester, unopposed at the top of this page?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:09 | 4487324 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What bad advice was festering that you fixed in the last 10 or so posts?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:43 | 4487600 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Ten? The guy has got almost 100 logged today. Trolling to the next level. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?page=2&name=jmp%20esp

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:46 | 4487731 A L I E N
A L I E N's picture

First day at the job...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:39 | 4487826 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

@gmp

Oh shit....I smell an IT "genius" in the house

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:21 | 4487360 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

Fuck you jmp, please go ahead and jump.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:04 | 4487647 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I don't even care what your point was.  Fuck Lola and the whore that bore her.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:16 | 4487660 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your cunt whore mother says hi.  Jinx. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:22 | 4487157 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

What is strange is that I see your failed attempt at hijacking a thread. This thread is ABOUT WARRANTLESS SEARCHES and not about the NSA looking at people through their webcams. Divided States was correct to ignore your hijack attempt and post relevant information.

 

Welcome to Fight Club BITCH. You sure are a whiny little Bitch...Hard Rock? When you going to Vegas next?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:32 | 4487186 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Did you gloss over the first post? And Vegas? Not my style. You're more likely to find me in the mountains of the PNW.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:22 | 4487364 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

fuck you jmp bitch.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:35 | 4487575 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

Are you related to Fonestar by chance?

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:36 | 4487824 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Good.I have a place up near Portland, Oregon. Perhaps we shall go hunting sometime. Do you like hunting?

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:49 | 4487837 Lore
Lore's picture

A blog entry with clear presentation and justification of ideas might serve to sideline much of the feather-fluffing and other interruptions...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:02 | 4487094 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

8th RULE of Fight Club: If this is your first night at FIGHT CLUB, you HAVE to fight.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:33 | 4487188 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Damn right, and I know and have felt the fight, right bitches!!!  That is why I like fight club so much...pretty smart place to be, unless one is a govt shill or proglodite!

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:51 | 4488057 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Perhaps they already have.  Maybe that's why Marla, Cheeky bastard et al are absent.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:02 | 4486731 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Hey bro, 3 choices.

-Suck it up like a man and learn the rules of the game (feel free to break up my structure next time, every man or woman for themselves here)

-Keep whining like a pussy and lose respect here (as indicated by your many down arrows - none from me)

-GTFO

I let you decide.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:05 | 4486743 Four chan
Four chan's picture

you mad bro?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:09 | 4486756 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

dude, i dont want to continue this drivel but i can tell you the only thing i'm mad about is the direction of where this country is heading.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:27 | 4486807 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Heading, we are there...the POLICE STATE!  Patriot Act, NDAA, lots of others, and now this...we are living a cluster fuck!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:26 | 4487167 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

throw in a dose of chemtrails, fukushima and some custom government issue geo storms...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 09:02 | 4488202 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

had to down ya for the ignorance of what conditions water becomes vapor in the atmosphere

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:06 | 4486808 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

@Divided States

~~~

I'm as pissed as you are...

 

But I think the dude in the FOTO was really just, like SERIOUSLY, 'JONZEIN' 4 some donuts...

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:24 | 4487540 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

I am peeving mad, more so everyday HyB.

Btw, the photo looks like the cop dude already spotted donuts on the table inside some room but is making sure no one is around to see him before he chomps all of them down for himself.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:06 | 4486749 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time" -Tyler Durden

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:11 | 4486755 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Perhaps you did not notice, but you didn't contribute anything actionable. You see, when it comes to the electronic surveillance state, people like you need people like me. This is because you don't understand what is actually occurring; you merely lap up the microscopic droplets of spittle the MSM feeds you, and oh how enlightened it makes you feel! But in reality, you don't have the technological prowess to fully grasp what's going on. If the time finally comes, they'll know right where you are, what you've got, who you're with, and how to retrieve you with ease. Now, I'm not suggesting I can prevent this merely by commenting, no--but I am telling you that I will have the edge, and if you sit down and listen, perhaps you'll learn something. To be perfectly clear, I'm not here seeking your validation. I'm here as a favor.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:25 | 4486804 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

OK. I'll bite.

Favor for whom?

Who is "they" and how many of them are there?

Do "they" know the laws of unintended consequences?

Will we need you if the grid fails?

Please, by all means, share your wisdom! /sarc?

I would say there are many wise folk who share their thoughts around here after spitting out MSM GMO droplets.  They have read history, ignored the "rules" and come to conclusions of their own critical thinking, observation and experience.

I'm also sure many have expanded their horizons intellectually and spritually through unorthodox means at some point.

There is certainly group-think and trollage but there are many lessons learned around here.

 

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:31 | 4486817 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I'm just waiting for him/her/it to start addressing themselves in the third person like F-f-f-f-f-onestar... Member: 3 weeks, 3 days. Fukin'a people.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:00 | 4487294 pods
pods's picture

Will you sit down and listen, he's doing us a favor dammit!

pods would like to learn something.

pods

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:13 | 4487662 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

I read ZH a looong time before I signed in as a member......I'm assuming it was the same for many others

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:54 | 4487844 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Yup

And JMP didn't get the crowd ESP to fuck off.

A man's home is his castle.

 

Stack On

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:35 | 4486835 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

A favor for anyone who is interested in the technological aspect of the police state. ZH is, as a whole, technically inept. That's understandable, of course, because to be otherwise requires a lifetime of dedication. Further, many of the posters here appear to be older, so they simply did not have the chance to learn, since the technology was not as mature when they were younger. There may be some IT guys, programmers, etc. sprinkled about here, but they quite clearly do not have a voice, and if you want to know what's actually going on, you must listen to them. We knew this happening over a decade ago, for fucks sake. Almost everyone else was asleep at the wheel, but not us.

The "they" I refer to are the lords of information at the helm of the ever-so-frightening electronic surveillance state.

And of course our necessity will diminish (but not altogether vanish) if the grid goes out. It's fun to romanticize such situations, but we're not there yet, and if we hit that point, you'll need us again after. It's not like we're going to forever do away with electronics.

Many ZH posters do offer valuable insights, and that's why I'm here burning through billable hours trying to contribute what I have, instead of looking the other way.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:40 | 4486857 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

You haven't contributed shit except that you have shit to contribute.

Also, most of us ain't skurred of your overlords.

.308 trumps IBM.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:45 | 4486872 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

I've floated little tidbits to test the waters. Good luck with your barbaric approach.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:46 | 4486878 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

reproach.

Your overlords will draw first blood.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:50 | 4486892 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

You know your .308 won't do shit when they drone your whole fucking family into the ground, right?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:55 | 4486911 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

neither will your webcam

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:17 | 4486978 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

no way bro

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:15 | 4487118 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

fonz! my mello... what r we gonna do about this? [u know I won't push the button unless kito & Doc are also in on it]...

~~~

What a WASTE of a first page :-(... But I thought the 'DONUT' comment was fly... [FOR A... kito my man ~ this is from one homie 2 another :-)]... Peace...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:20 | 4487149 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

yeah he blew the page up. Too bad fonefart did not jump in and they could have defecated all over the page and hopefully got it out of their systems in one shot.

that guy really did look like he was sniffing for food btw.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:02 | 4487305 pods
pods's picture

Peace brother.  

pods

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:15 | 4487346 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

@fonz ~ pods ~ kito ~ & doc

Not TO you..> But for your entertainment [on the next thread]... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnNYXgV7L-c

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:50 | 4487448 pods
pods's picture

Sorry HyB, I am reading this really good book on reincarnation so I don't have time for that vid.

pods

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:23 | 4487365 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

jmp---do little men in black suits talk to you while you sleep?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:59 | 4486921 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

I'm going to dismiss you saying my "fucking family".

In person, your teeth would be out of reach right now.

Drone joystick opreators have families too, including elders.

Elders who believe like I do.

Think that drone joystick operator is going to drone his own?

Will he be watching from afar?

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:14 | 4486969 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Hah, internet tough guy here. Of course that drone operator turn your immediate family to dust! Then his comrades will blow up a few cars that might be carrying friend/family before targeting the homes of your extended family for good measure. The thugs have no problem shooting you in person, in your home. You think they'll hesitate to turn you to dust when doing so feels like a videogame? Heh.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:42 | 4487033 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Here hero, let me clear up this confusion so that you know where this conversation will end with your idiocy being plain as day. If you run out there and think that your tech will save you when they start rolling APC's down the street I think you have some things to learn.

It doesn't matter if you're peaceful when the state rolls out the wolves to herd up the sheep for the slaughter. The only thing that will matter are those of us that are willing to take that next step and fight for something. Being a Rothbardian myself I would prefer a peaceful solution, but the ball is not in my court. It's in the Banker's and Obama's court. I can't shove my head in the sand with denial and not acknowledge that the government has chosen the inflation and police state path rather than the let it dissolve and accept reality path. 

Many people are likely going to die in the near future, it's best if you just accept that you are likely going to have to make tough choices in the near future if you don't want to just surrender to the state. The alternative is to accept that this is a very likely outcome at this stage in the game, and you should probably try to get your family on the same page so that you are working together rather than just leaving them to hang out there to dry. You don't have to tell me how difficult that is, I already am aware of how difficult it is to talk sense into irrational humans.

 

I speak from experience of having been one of those wolves I referenced previously. I am not the only former wolf in here, and certainly it's obvious I am not the only sheepdog. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:54 | 4487066 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Hero? I never claimed to be anything of the sort. As for the APCs, I don't see any in the streets yet, so everything I've said remains valid. In fact, the scenario you describe does little more than demostrate your lack of understanding of I'm talking about. People with the right technical skills can gain access to things you could never shoot your way to in a million years, and they do so in complete silence.  Obviously the relevance of technological aptitude decreases if SHTF, but it doesn't merely vanish. Ask Iran how they stole one of our drones, or ask the the Taliban (I believe it was) how they were intercepting drone feeds.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:01 | 4487091 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The government controls every power plant in the country already. They control the networks already. Unless you missed when the DHS took over the security at every single power plant in the US in the Mid-2000's. 

 

Drones are easy, they are hardware with firmware. Humans are far more difficult and unfortunately you don't understand asymmetric conflicts and how little technology matters when your opponents can literally vanish technologically. As for tracking people down, I don't need to, nor do they. They can easily get to either one of us at any time they want, and that is the problem you seem to be having. You do not need technology to track a person down. All you need is a pattern of behavior that you can dig up, which everyone already has if they use the banks at all. 

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:05 | 4487105 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

You really shouldn't be telling me who controls the networks, smart grid included. That sort of stuff is clearly outside of your understanding. In fact, the smart grid is an excellent example of how "cyberwarfare" (I loath the term) can be used to achieve real world effect. But please, do go on.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:19 | 4487145 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

All of that requires uninterrupted power. Do you remember what ENRON was actually doing in Cali? They were charging people for hours of electricity while the power was out for starters. These assholes can essentially do anything they want to disrupt you, including shutting down the entire grid. 

Give it up kid, you have to understand, they control everything. It is their infrastructure that they took 60+ years building for this very outcome of them having control. The statists have already taken over, they have been working to do this since the end of WW2.

 Your only options are resistance or compliance. There is no amount of technology that will protect you, serve us or save us. The only thing that will save anyone from here on out is the understanding that you might very well be killed in the coming years trying to survive. Most likely it will be by another person that was trying to do the same thing. 

 

 You shouldn't be assuming that any of us are tech illiterate. I've been on the net since '95. I understand how the Internet works. 

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:20 | 4487153 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

You have absolutely no idea what you're blathering about, and your waning relevance glows as bright as the sun. Leave IT to the people who make that world spin.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:34 | 4487177 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Uhh, dipshit, if they turn the power off your IT BS doesn't mean shit. As for the world spinning, it does that just fine on it's own with you trolls assuming your own self importance. You need to learn that you are nothing and nobody, and you will always be nothing and nobody until you understand why it is that you are nothing and nobody. 

You should leave strategy and tactics awareness to the military people, and economics to the economists.

However, I am sure you think you have a brilliant comment on both. I love hearing Air Force/Navy/Civilian turds tell me about fighting and soldiering.  

If I were you, I would stay nothing and nobody and learn to keep your mouth shut. You will live longer in the real world that way. You might also learn that being somebody and something usually makes you a huge fucking target. 

 

As for my relevance, I am fine with being irrelevant. I'm sure my wife and kids will enjoy having me around rather than being a corpse. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:38 | 4487217 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Get over yourself. Nobody's cutting the power to everything, and people like me enable you to broadcast your ignorant opinions. You're welcome.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:23 | 4487526 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You are on the wrong site junior. 

This site is meant for that particular discussion. 

 

My "ignorance", as you call it, is likely far greater than I think, but most likely not nearly as great as you presume. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:32 | 4487554 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

Hey JMP Would you happen to have any naked pictures of that whore wife of yours seeing your all technical and stuff?

 

I mean we're all really scared, in the end we're all dead anyway fuck face.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 02:30 | 4487873 tickhound
tickhound's picture

I'm actually enjoying the foreplay. It's damn good. But next time don't look at me so much. Right now I don't want to know if you're an ugly bitch or not. Is that the fresh scent of Febreze I smell?

So until then, I'm all ears.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:11 | 4487331 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Hey JP Morgan what is the address that I can send your present to?  I have a dick in the box that you can suck.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:29 | 4487385 Pinche Caballero
Pinche Caballero's picture

Heh, heh. Resorting to low tech warfare is for those attempting to defeat the technologically superior opponent, a sort of "our will versus their resources". It has wreaked havoc on the U.S. these past dozen years or so, a sort of death by a thousand cuts.

Wolves, sheepdogs, and sheeple. One man's Freedom Fighter is another man's terrorist. I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. Wolf, sheepdog, and sometimes both, but never a sheeple.

What an eclectic bunch here on ZH. I thought it was mostly farmers.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:25 | 4487544 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

In the end it's all about whether you think that people should behave in a civil manner or not. I think they should, and I do behave so until someone makes it impossible for me to do so. 

As for us being farmers, everyone is a farmer if they are hungry enough. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:35 | 4487402 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

fuck you jmp

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:54 | 4488062 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

JMP - Project Echelon and Carnivore pretty much concluded the end of any form of digital privacy and that was if ever existed in the first place. I remember doing a search for my own name in 1997 and email between me and another individual would show up. It was then I realized I needed to watch what I say. Not in a paranoid type way, but that manners and reapect are important concepts I needed polish on.

It is still a work in progress. The Internet is a giant mirror. The leadership whatever national or non-national stripe and all in-between also now need to watch what they say and polish up on respect.

If you have something specific to say instead of 'building a mystery' (song reference intended) please do so. I have mentioned this group of people influence the influencers. Those are primarily investors but of course it means law enforcement which nowadays is so selectively applied one can say our Republic died sometime around the year 2,000. The core government personell will survive any new brand, same as the Soviets. The "American" dream died with it, call it the brand of Uncle Sam is dead. Good riddance Sam has become so lazy and dysfunctional all he knows is the stick. The saying 'the beatings will continue until moral improves' comes to mind. It's an oxymoron.

The people around this country have held back physically and I am glad. The Supreme Court did us all a favor and sanctioned war against ourselves by declaring corporations as people. So others with far more money than I or ZH class of people have put on their symbolic armor and sword. ZH set an example. From a very large bird's eye view humanity and this leaderships vanity and hubris which reach the heavens is actually hillarious! From a close up view some are getting fatigued with tears from the suffering. Mapping game theory on supercomputers and now quantum rely on human nature as it's programming. The core logic of 3D is conquest, push and pull. Attack or defend. Such programs only accelerate our evolutionary conclusion to which I say "good let us hurry" for I and all humanity grow bored with this place.

I have stated my ideas about where we are going and how soon here, they are on my computer and email. I sometimes play jokes on others but not pranks that harm a soul! I always encourage full government anal raping of all my systems so some intelligence agent that it's own government views as a peon can learn something beyond the evolutionary lesson of 3D, of mere conequest. It is just one facet, one angle of existence, one dimension if you will.

We need more advanced games the entire public can play than the Olympics. That is better than physical wars for we are less than 50 years from evolving. Yesterdays religion is today's science.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:45 | 4486873 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

king jmp esp, brand new and condescending to everyone on zh... give 'em 6 weeks and they'll be gone. 

weird how periodically people join and throw up a zillion posts about how everyone on zh is this or that and then disappear within a couple months

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:49 | 4486889 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Six weeks? That's generous; I'm pretty close to done right now.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:53 | 4486903 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

It'll be tough, but somehow zh will survive. Have fun going back to <x> website where every one of your fellow posters is a like-minded genius. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:16 | 4486976 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

ZH will survive until TPTB pull the plug, at which point you'll likely be left guessing.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:37 | 4487028 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

That goes back to my question of why we'll need you. (?)

I believe the "favors" you speak of might be better conducted under an apparatchik's desk, or are you and your IBM already there?

Now, fuck off.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:55 | 4487071 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Hopefully your family dies.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:04 | 4487098 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

So the troll shows his own true selfish colors as predicted. You do not belong here my friend. 

Perhaps you should stay of reddit or perhaps four chan is more your speed. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:52 | 4487264 explosivo
explosivo's picture

Don't lump 4chan together with that turd, Reddit. The 4chan /pol/ board is the last bastion of free speech in the world. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:27 | 4487546 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Well Free Speech is fine, but some of the people there are very uncivil. 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:05 | 4487107 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

On a long enough timeline...

With honor at least.

You're the internet tough guy.

This time, Your breath would be out of reach and your teeth would be a privilege.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:18 | 4487146 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

You're the one spewing impotent threats, bud.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:33 | 4487190 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Do not let the door hit you in the ass...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 08:10 | 4488090 sleigher
sleigher's picture

I just read this entire jmp thread and in all my time here I have never see 1 person show up and make such a fool of themselves.

It was quite entertaining though,

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:46 | 4487247 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

jmp esp...you are a condescending amoeba, without two brain cells to rub together!  When the power goes off, your bits and bytes will go bye bye, and there will be no need for pencil dicks like you anymore!

I prefer to place my allegence with people who actually have critical thinking and physical abilities, both of which you obviously lack.  Go back to huffandpuffcompost.com from whence you came, that is all, have a nice day retread!

Don't let that joystick go my sad little friend, even when it is dark all around you!

pffft...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:05 | 4487311 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Keep on dreaming, chump. Technology ain't going away, and people like me have more control with each passing day. As much as you love to romanticize a black out, should such an event occur, it would merely be a speedbump on a timeline toward the inevitable.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:17 | 4487344 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

There you go folks, the communist spoke his truth, "people like me have more control with each passing day..." YOU FUCKING STATIST GOVT SHILL - FUCK YOU!  I hope we meet on the battlefield one day (as that day is rapidly approaching IMHO - ever look around you, can you smell the napalm fella), get your face out of that monitor, all you have to do is WAKE UP...but it will be a pleasure!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:39 | 4487589 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

LMAO control your lips on my member, you aint shit. If you we're a true technical marvel as you say you are you certainly would not brag about it.

 

At least the Technical marvels I know are very sheltered, again you aint shit.....stop giving this stink his 15 minutes of fame.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:23 | 4486995 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Eat a bag of dicks, you pompous windbag.  I don't know shit about IT, but I saw this coming a decade ago, which is why I stopped carrying a cell phone.  I didn't need your valuable insight and your delicate pearls of wisdom to wake me the fuck up.  All it took was some basic math skills and a little light reading about fallen empires of long ago to draw that conclusion. 

Nobody here is asleep.  That's why we're here...to vent about the inevitable.  Nobody here needs your IT skills, either, because when it all turns to shit, there won't be any interwebs for you to fix for us mongoloid, inbred, know-nothing peasants.

And if you are in fact "burning through billable hours" surfing here, your boss ought to fire your lazy ass.  And if you work for yourself, you aren't prioritizing properly.  Family first, business second, then it's time for you to scatter your wondrous knowledge upon the uneducated, unwashed masses of the internet.  But here's a friendly tip:  you won't find those people here.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:27 | 4487003 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

You don't know shit and hunting you down will be trivial.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:47 | 4487055 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Could you hunt me down first?

Pretty please ;-)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:57 | 4487074 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

I'm not the hunter I was referring to in my prior post, and no, I no longer get my jollies off by doxing people. Maybe a decade or so ago I would have accepted your challenge, but there's nothing to be gained, regardless of the outcome.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:03 | 4487100 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I can narrow it down by state, if that would help ;-)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:06 | 4487109 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

What's the point? I'm not your enemy and I have nothing to gain by pursuing you.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:13 | 4487131 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The point is, to prove to me, you can do what you say you can.

Shouldn't be hard with you self professed abilities ;-)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:27 | 4487169 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Sorry, my anon days are far behind me. If I tried, I might get you, or I might not. That depends on our respective skill levels and the luck of the draw. It doesn't really matter though, because I wasn't referring to myself, nor was I referring to you. I was speaking of TPTB tracking posters here. If you're the infosec type, then you should know that most of us glow like flares.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:50 | 4487258 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I was speaking of TPTB tracking posters here."

Of course you were. And in the process, intimidating people about posting here or anywhere. As in, we shoud all STFU?

"If you're the infosec type, then you should know that most of us glow like flares."

Yes, I know, its very apparent ;-)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:57 | 4487284 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Shine On You Crazy Diamonds.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:51 | 4487260 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

hey jmp esp, I could give a fucking rats ass if tptb come after me, I will die a free man if that is the case, but they better pack a fucking LUNCH, kiss their loved ones goodbye and get their affairs in order...

If they do drone me, then it won't hurt for long...you see I fear no man, no govt, nada, you know why?  They can never touch my soul...for eternity!

Molon Labe bitch!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:56 | 4487072 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

They won't need to hunt anyone down genius, that's the point. They will turn the populace against us without ever having to lift a finger. They will not show their true colors until the streets are filled with riots. 

Did you not learn anything about how Hitler took power? He took what Lenin did and perfected it. Who do you think these bastards learn from? 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:00 | 4487086 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Maybe you're right, maybe they won't use the unparalleled tracking system they've dumped an ungodly number of man hours into. You do seem pretty smart, with your surface level historical comparisons.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:09 | 4487117 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

What do you think is the first target in most of the minds of the remnants if the STHF and they start rounding people up? Their infrastructure, hence why they have essentially armies at it's weak points. 

 

You also mistake the claims of this tracking system with the actual bravado and blatant BS for truth. I highly doubt their tracking system is anywhere close to effective as they think it is. Probably far less so than they claim to be as well. I mean seriously, these fuckers couldn't even get their own registry site for their invasive tracking system right the first time after two years, and it still doesn't work correctly months later. 

I have been in the Army as an active duty Infantryman, I have seen government competence first hand, and let me tell you, I am amazed those people can dress themselves decently....  

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:38 | 4487210 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Do you understand what he is doing? This thread is supposed to be about Warrantless searches.

 

He is hijacking a thread and loading it up with drivel so the topic is NOT DISCUSSED.

 

He is a Troll. That is how they work.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:45 | 4487437 effendi
effendi's picture

This thread has gone for 2 WHOLE PAGES and the subject of warrantless searches has not been raised. Now that everyone is agreeing with me I'll get most of you to disagree with me.

The decision of the court is the correct one. People have the right to permit the police to search their home and the woman occupant gave that permission. To deny the woman the right to grant police permission to search because her man said no would  make her part of the mans goods and chattels (a virtual slave)

If she said no then the police have no right to search

If she was a child, mentally incompetant etc then the police have no right to search

If she was a visitor then any permission should be nul and void and any evidence obtained be not admissable

Even if the woman decided to remain silent when the police ask to search the house then the police have no right to search

I'm a libertarian, if the police asked to search and the woman did not consent then I would have the book thrown at the cops for an illegal search,

 

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:26 | 4487807 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

In this particular case I agree that there was already Probable Cause without a warrant. There was evidence that a crime was being committed.

 

The danger which I see is that there is precedent law. If the Police choose to FALSELY ARREST a person then they can have him removed. Threatening another occupant with the same False Arrest will provide incentive, COERCION, to allow for a search. It will be implied that if you do not allow a search then we will also arrest you. Then the Police are free to search as a Fishing Expedition.

 

So you do not piss me off. But actually I am pleased that you offered your honest argument. Please consider mine. Thanks.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:32 | 4487562 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I hate to tell you, there is nothing really to discuss. You've been here long enough to see the change in who is on here. The topic itself is meaningless though. None of us can change what those assholes do, as they are not listening to us. They haven't been for a while. They only follow the guidance of think tanks that run Lobbyists now. 

 

Also, if you look below I brought that point up already, no on is discussing the topic which is why I confronted the Troll directly to mitigate him from turning the conversation into something else. He was fishing to find someone that would make a threat. I doubt any of the real members like yourself of me would be that stupid or that uncivil. 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:47 | 4487833 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Well there are some whom have actually supported the decision. I wanted to engage them in debate to point out that the people whome are not arrested can be coerced through the threat of an arrest.

 

I am not "blaming" you. (I have responded to him. I just offered to take him hunting in the Pacific NW.)  

 

But I just noticed what was going on and pointed it out.

 

I can be a jerk at times. I can be junked for it too. I expect that. And you are correct by confronting him. But I will just junk him and if something really gets my ire then I will also respond.

 

It is difficult TO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. I do understand that as I do it myself.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:42 | 4487233 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

You think your experience as infrantry grants you insights into what I speak of? Really? Fucking christ, man.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:34 | 4487568 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

No, it doesn't. My experience as an InfantryMAN gave me the intestinal fortitude and understanding of how statists think so that I can predict their moves. I understand how the military works and how they fight. 

My understanding in technology and social sciences come from my degrees. One of which I had before I was in the Army ;-) 

 

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 08:48 | 4488168 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

JMP - To understand a symbol of a dime when the thought was first put into it requires wisdom. Are you applying it here?

The party is already over. The US government has already made law of indefinate detainment and the law to kill without any form of judicial process. So if you are here to help, tell us how or do you just bill to stir up shit? The term for that kind of individual is called agent provocateur.

Please read some Ghandi.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:30 | 4486819 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

"If the time finally comes, they'll know right where you are, what you've got, who you're with, and how to retrieve you with ease." Ummm, the time has already come fella...it is now time to see what Americans are made of IMHO!  Do we stand up to this BULL SHIT, or take it up the chuffer some more?

We need to educate people and put a stop to this crap, pronto!  I don't incite violence, there has to be a better way...but not quite sure what that way is just yet.  Voting doesn't seem to work, the courts don't seem to work, never mind...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:41 | 4486853 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

I disagree. At the moment, I think they're performing recon and mapping the attack surface of the American populace. I haven't seen anything that's led me to believe they've acted en masse, though I could be wrong. Once we see mass prosecutions akin to SOD, that's when shit really starts.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:38 | 4487030 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"At the moment, I think they're performing recon and mapping the attack surface of the American populace."

So, we should not make ourselves targets, in your opinion? Cower, perhaps?

"I haven't seen anything that's led me to believe they've acted en masse..."

No, of course not. Collecting everyones communications in spite of a piece of paper that used to mean law & jail for the perpetrator, doesn't mean a thing. And forcing people to buy "a product or service" being completely ancillary to freedom means absolutely nothing.

Its not like they're destroying the value of everyones labor at the same time as the above or anything.

Geez.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:23 | 4487160 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I am sure you saw that the Fourth Amendment doesn't exist anymore as well.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 19:53 | 4486904 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Abi +1 for taking it up the chuffer.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:54 | 4487270 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

LOL, thanks man, now that hurt!!!  Hey, we have had a few takes at each other, but (I hope) we are on the same side here!  Yeah, I can be a real ass hole can't I??  Thanks for the "up" vote, arrrrrrrg!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:27 | 4487002 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I'm here as a favor."

Which is what?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:29 | 4487007 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Hmm. Nothing, I suppose.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:00 | 4487084 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Hey JMP,

Don't let the negative comments get you down just yet, there's nobody on this board (trolls and humans) that isn't pissed off about what is happening here. You're just fresh meat.

Everyone here has something to offer, even if it's proof of what not to do. This includes you.

Welcome to the fight. Unless you're a troll/whore/shill, then feel free to kill yourself.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:45 | 4487603 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

No.  Fuck him.  He's just like any other troll.  They all have the same M.O., which is to post repeatedly and disrupt the thread.  One MAJOR flaw of ZH is that we don't have the ability to block an asshole's posts from displaying.  And if that means Sac needs a few bucks to implement then count me in.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:00 | 4487087 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well WTF dude.

You come on here acting like a sage, talking about "billable hours" and doing us "favors"?

Let me tell you something about "us", there are doctors, cops, lawyers, architects, bankers, engineers, electricians, conmen, economists, thieves, scientists, warriors, plumbers, philosophers and artists on here.

Spell it the fuck out man!

Somebody will understand it all and splain it to the rest of us idjuts ;-)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:09 | 4487120 jmp esp
jmp esp's picture

Feel free to see my other posts where I expand, albeit marginally. You may glean what I'm alluding to. Otherwise, I'm about spent for the time being.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:25 | 4487156 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its...well, we don't talk about the First Rule or the Second Rule.

You picked all, you got your ass kicked.

Now you're wiser.

///////

Maybe not...lol.

"Hopefully your family dies."

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:43 | 4487234 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

And what did all of that dialouge have to do with Warrantless Searches???

 

Were you sidetracked? Was he affective?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:56 | 4487280 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Just so you all know (hey NSA listening, reading?) I am a FUCKING WARRIOR!!!!  Come get some...

Oblahblah, Hitlary and the rest of the communist pond scum, can suck my DICK!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:59 | 4487474 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I don't know, possibly.

The over riding thing for me is, the law as we knew it, is dead. It seems the case is accepted at face value. There are a lot of components in this case, I believe it was an apartment, a rental, which RT didn't mention as far as I can tell.

The problem is "precedent" which Ghordius and I have touched on a couple times in differences of global jurisprudence. Is this ruling really saying a home is not a mans (or womans, for the hyper-sensitive reader out there) castle or a rental is not a mans castle?

I don't know, I haven't read the opinion, so in that sense, he was effective.

Also, the cops (dickheads that they are) saw what appeared to be a victim of a beating (his wife/girlfriend) so its exactly the wrong case for the SCOTUS to make this type of far reaching ruling on, if thats what it is...haven't read it (the particulars).

But it is (getting back to my "the law is dead" comment) exactly the kind of shit statists do today, take a case of such concern & import to the general publics welfare (consisting of "bad actors") and set the precedent for our future.

Just watch for it ;-)

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:18 | 4487790 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

That is what needed to be addressed. The NSA bullshit is a SIDETRACK. It is the method used by trolls. The Warrantless searches needed to be addressed.. I agree wholehearted with you.

 

Although I disagreed with Divided States on the Jew Issue, yesterday, I upvoted him for being on topic with his initial post under that of the Troll Post.

 

Thanks for your opinion.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 10:09 | 4488518 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Anytime here brother...we're all here to discuss like men. I told kito the same thing last year. No hard feelings.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:02 | 4487304 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

nmewn, how many ZHer's do you suspect are in the "posting community" at any one time? 50, 150? What percent of these do you think are real people?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:09 | 4487320 pods
pods's picture

Well I'm real, no lie. ;)

Actually have ZH open all day.  How else would I get news?

pods

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:12 | 4487338 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

OK, so here is my wild ass guess: 150 posters and half are real. I am real, so maybe 73 others. Kinda depressing.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:20 | 4487359 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

thousands read ZH, they just don't have to balls to post...I guess they don't wanna get droned!?  Oh well, fuck'em

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