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Ukraine: A Deep State Analysis

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

Ukraine: A Deep State Analysis

Some preliminary thoughts on a complex situation.

It doesn't take any special insight into the situation in Ukraine to conclude that no one narrative illuminates all the dynamics. Various contesting Grand Narratives have emerged in the media--neofascist coup, rampant corruption, east versus west, to name a few--but these only describe a few of the regional fault lines and complexities.

At my request, correspondent A.C. offered a preliminary Deep State analysis of the situation. A.C.'s perspective is informed by decades of experience in Eastern Europe, Russia and the Baltic region.

I recently discussed the Deep State in The Dollar and the Deep State, and offered this definition by Mike Lofgren:

The term “Deep State” was coined in Turkey and is said to be a system composed of high-level elements within the intelligence services, military, security, judiciary and organized crime.

The Deep State is a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the nation without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process.

I describe the U.S. Deep State as the National Security State which enables a vast Imperial structure that incorporates hard and soft power--military, diplomatic, intelligence, finance, commercial, energy, media, higher education--in a system of global domination and influence.

One key feature of the Deep State everywhere is that it makes decisions behind closed doors and the surface government simply ratifies and implements the decisions. I have covered various aspects of geopolitics and the Deep State for years, for example:

The Great Game: Geopolitics and Oil (October 19, 2010)

The Banality of Evil and Imperial Over-Reach (December 14, 2010)

Speaking of Iraq--let's start with the obvious Deep State agenda in Ukraine: energy. Nations with a strategic "vital interest" in the region's energy mix include Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Germany (and the rest of the Europen Union, which currently depends on natural gas piped through Ukraine from Russia), Romania and (of course) the United States, which maintains a strategic interest in every square meter of the planet (including the seas and ice caps).

It's not much of a stretch to say that Russia's fiscal health and geopolitical influence are based on hydrocarbons--specifically gas and oil delivered to other nations for cash and/or political favors.

The maturation of fracking technologies have led to the exploration of western Ukraine, Poland and Romania by super-major oil companies such as Chevron: Where We Operate - Chevron

Chevron holds four shale concessions in Poland—Frampol, Grabowiec, Krasnik and Zwierzyniec—which total approximately one million acres. In the Grabowiec concession, drilling of the first well was completed in March 2012, followed by a diagnostic fracture integrity test in December 2012. A first well also was drilled in the Frampol concession in 2012. In the Zwierzyniec concession, drilling began in December 2012. Continued exploration drilling is planned for 2013.

 

Chevron holds more than 2 million acres in Romania, including a 1.6-million-acre concession in the Barlad Shale. We plan to drill an exploration well in 2013. We hold three additional concession agreements covering 670,000 acres in southeast Romania. Acquisition of 2-D seismic data across these concessions is expected to begin in 2013.

 

Chevron successfully bid for the right to exclusively negotiate with the government of Ukraine for the Oleska Block. The company is expected to operate and hold a 50 percent interest in the 1.6 million-acre concession.

Ukraine holds promise for shale gas despite uncertainty

The development of gas fields in these regions poses a direct competitive threat to the near-monopoly currently held by the Russian national oil company, Gazprom. This sets up a scramble for energy, where western Ukraine, Poland, Romania and the EU have powerful financial incentives to develop energy sources outside of Russian control, while Russia has an incentive to secure energy resources and assets in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

Here is A.C.'s outline of some of the key dynamics:

This gas pipeline map graphically illustrates Gazprom's real problem. A major competing gas field is appearing literally underneath a major existing east-west gas pipeline running into central Europe. Drill wells and immediately begin selling to Germany and other existing Gazprom customers. And also undercut Gazprom's pricing by a touch.

 

The extent to which US-based multinational oil and gas firms are directly displacing Russian enterprises in supplying the EU is remarkable. Chevron and Exxon are very prominent in the emerging offshore and shale plays.

 

I think the imminent threat of Ukrainian shale gas development is a factor in forcing Putin's hand over the EU trade deal. Putin's regional Great Power ambitions are backed entirely by strong arm hydrocarbon diplomacy. Putin's domestic political position equally rests on stable and elevated hydrocarbon prices to fund the state budget.

 

He has no revolutionary ideology with mass appeal in religion, politics or economics. Nor does he possess a large internationally recognized sphere of dominance like Stalin obtained at Yalta in 1945.

 

Nor does he have a large land army with which to intimidate and subdue neighboring states. He's only managed to convert a portion of the shrunken Army to "kontraktniki" (well-paid professional volunteers). These guys are the ones suppressing the Muslim insurgents in the Caucasus. If Putin attempted to openly intervene in the Ukraine with the available and virtually untrained conscript military forces it would produce a political explosion in Russia's own internal politics. This is addition to the surge of Ukrainian nationalist opposition that would ensue.

 

Putin's risk arises not just from the example being set for Russian domestic opponents. If Putin is seen to be responsible for alienating and finally "losing" the Ukraine he'll find himself in trouble with the Russian Deep State.

 

What's Happening in Kiev Right Now Is Vladimir Putin's Worst Nightmare (New Republic)

 

Will Ukraine Break Apart (New Yorker)

 

As this piece notes, modern Ukraine in its present form is an artifact of the 1945 Yalta Conference and the post World War II order. Just like Yugoslavia. Unfortunately for all concerned, this latent instability is now compounded by a happenstance of geology and the recent maturation of the technology for exploiting shale gas reserves. Adjoining neighbors like Poland now have motives that were missing when the Ukraine was a poor and primarily agrarian land.

 

The gas pipeline map shows the major incentives and rational objectives of a partition strategy from Putin's perspective. He can't stop development in Polish Lublin or near Lviv. He at least needs to keep control of infrastructure in the eastern Ukraine. Offshore Black Sea oil and gas tract concessions are also at stake.

This suggests that the interests of all parties align in supporting a de facto partition rather than a civil war in Ukraine in which neither side could establish stable, long-term control of the other.

I asked A.C. for his view of the U.S. Deep State's goals in the region.

The short two-part answer is:

 

1. Frustrate Moscow's ambitions to dominate Eurasia. The operative strategic analyses employed are MacKinder's World-Island Theory as subsequently and heavily modified by modern hydro-carbon fuel economics: The Geographical Pivot of History.

 

2. Continue to improve the EU's Central European position with respect to its hydrocarbon fuel supplies. The Neocons were already deeply worried about the growth of NATO dependence on Gazprom and the eastern pipelines in the mid-1980s. This has been on their radar for decades.

 

The overall objective is to destroy Putin's capacity to set marginal natural gas prices in Europe. If pipelines under the Baltic and Black Seas are feasible so are pipelines under the Mediterranean Sea from North Africa to France, and from the eastern Mediterranean and Aegean to Greece and southeastern Europe. Add some LPG terminals and European shale gas operations and this is achieved.

 

There may be a third goal in trying to set an example for domestic Russian opponents, which exist in great numbers. I think it's more likely the Russian Federation's Deep State will find another leader first.

Thank you, A.C., for your perspective on this complex, fast-evolving situation. Sometimes strategic goals can be met not by establishing overt control (i.e. becoming a target) but by indirectly thwarting the goals of competing Deep States.

 

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Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:06 | 4486946 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Its all about the (petro)Benjamins.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:20 | 4486961 Looney
Looney's picture

Whoever wrote this article is a shill tryin' to passive-aggressively find a full-time job with either MSM, KerryDepartment, or LBGT(sp?) community. Chucky Smith used to have some interesting things to say...

The only way anybody could understand the dynamics of what's goyim on in Ukraine are those who actually lived over there (and not in the phuckin' Baltic Region).

Looney (I'm goyim back to watching my toenails grow)  ;-)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:23 | 4486994 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Solid piece from Charles as usual.  It points out how much Russia has to lose from an extended civil war.  Their income and foreign exchange are from oil and gas.  The international arms trade just isn't working that well for them anymore.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:39 | 4487032 fonestar
fonestar's picture

AC = Anderson Cooper?

/joke

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:21 | 4487064 Looney
Looney's picture

Nahhh... "AC" stands for Affordable Care WITHOUT the actual ACT or CARE, or AFFORDABLE. Just like a blow-up girlfriend purchased with BTC  ;-)

Looney

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:35 | 4487199 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Apparently the Kabul strategy is underway as we read ZH tonight:

 

02.27 BREAKING 2000 ET: In Crimea-Sevastopol and Simferopol Airports Occupied by Unknown Military Force
Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:58 | 4487288 EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

Wow nice find, this is getting very interesting

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:10 | 4487330 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

TY. I lurk in very dark places as a habit.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 04:47 | 4487960 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

I am tired of the way Western media twists the facts about world events.

 

 

Why don't we just call the "Arab Spring" what it really is?

 

The Pipeline War.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 11:04 | 4488907 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Why would you go to war over pipelines when they point in the best direction for you already?

I'd call that a logic fail....

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:05 | 4487493 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Very interesting site - I've bookmarked it and will be a frequent visitor.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:44 | 4487728 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

Looney, did you bother to read past the first sentence of the article? Or did you forget the <sarc> tag?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:00 | 4487298 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

A more solid analysis for the adults in the room:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-kremlins-response-to-event...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:13 | 4487511 macbone
macbone's picture

Like the Russians are not an evil Gangster imperialist power. You have to be a special variety of shithead to be a pro-Russian, pro-Putin, anti-US bigot. ZH is rapidly becoming shithead central.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:34 | 4487569 Petrodollar Sys...
Petrodollar System Beneficiary's picture

I think the Kremlin has infiltrated Zerohedge...

But in all seriousness, I am finding this site to be more pro-Russian as of late.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:30 | 4487975 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Petrodollor Sys:

"But in all seriousness, I am finding this site to be more pro-Russian as of late."

 

No actually a lot of us are against an agenda of bringing about "a new world order" even if it also brings about thermo-nuclear world war 3.

"We are now at the year 1908, which was the year that the Carnegie Foundation began operations. In that year, the trustees, meeting for the first time, raised a specific question, which they discussed throughout the balance of the year in a very learned fashion.  The question is: “Is there any means known more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire people?” And they conclude that no more effective means than war to that end is known to humanity."

- Norman Dodd, Chief Investigator for US House Select Committee to Investigate Tax Exempt Foundations - relaying content of Carnegie Foundation minutes as discovered by his team

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:57 | 4487980 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

That's funny. I'm noticing more pro-Soros/NWO types infiltrating ZH lately also.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 11:07 | 4488924 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Would you like to put together a list?

We can compare notes...

BTW, it is called registering as a user....

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:47 | 4487607 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Exactly.  Just because their guy can beat up our guy but doesn't need to because he's also much smarter doesn't mean he's the good guy.  Both are bad.  Both should lose.  Too bad the real losers will be Ukrainians on both sides.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:07 | 4487770 KickIce
KickIce's picture

At least Putin is a known quantity and not the wolves in sheep's clothing that wrap tyranny in the American flag.

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 02:35 | 4487878 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Knock me over with a feather, really?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:30 | 4487558 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

dup.......and study this...

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/ukrainian-nationalism-its-roots-and.html

fully discredited second rome vs resurected third rome

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:21 | 4488030 silvermail
silvermail's picture

NLP for linguistic elements of provocation :
- " Holodomor " - there is no such word in the dictionary, it's newspeak . Purpose - introduction into people's minds , the myth of the genocide of Ukrainians from the Russian . To divide the Slavs through historical hatred and thus gain power over them .
- " Kosovars " - there is no nation in the world is Newspeak . Purpose - introduction into people's minds , the myth of the nation , which has the right to self-determination. People had to think so, because if there is no nation, there is no right to self-determination. Therefore ordinary Albanians living in Kosovo, Western propaganda began to call "people Kosovars".
- " EU and NATO " - there is no such unit , and legal concepts. This phrase is used to embed in people's minds the idea that " the EU" and " NATO " - is a common unit . The purpose - to intimidate slaves.

I propose to go further. I suggest using the phrase "EuroNATO". Or "EuroNATO of USA".

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:25 | 4488034 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Thanks for sharing. That is a good analysis.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:54 | 4487272 EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

I thought the piece was pretty well written and made a lot of sense.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:02 | 4487307 EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

The problem is you are looking at this from the perspective that any of the major players care what eastern Ukrainians do or do not identify themselves as. This is plain ol U.S. vs. Russia and the article explains quite nicely what fears the Russians have and why and what the US might be trying to do in order to "frustrate" the Russians. I suspect more than frustrating them is in the works

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:31 | 4487013 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Author of this article tries to argue that what he is a complete ignoramus. He has no idea about the relationship between Russia and Ukraine. He lives in captivity his illusions of Western propaganda. He does not understand that the population in eastern Ukraine - is the Russian people and those Ukrainians who feel yourself as Russian. He does not understand that the entire western Ukraine - is subsidized region. There is no industry and developed agriculture. I do not understand why some people are trying to publish articles about something, where they are absolutely ignorant?
This is not an article , it's bullish shit about anything.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:54 | 4487041 Looney
Looney's picture

Zactly, SilverMALE!  ;-) Ukraine IS Russia and Russia IS Ukraine. You, dude, must be getting your free-quent flyer miles from the same source as our own dearly beloved "Boris the Un-Weird".  ;-)

Looney

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:16 | 4487786 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

You forgot the <sarc> tag again...(ya better not be serious)

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:10 | 4487124 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

i believed that shit about subsidized west until an hour ago i saw avg. wage and uneployment stats for the last year...

 

go and do your homework too

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:24 | 4487162 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

It's really difficult to figure out how much people are acutally making in a country like Ukraine.  When I was there (in southern Ukraine), I met quite a few people who worked under the table and paid no taxes.  They did not have bank accounts either.  But a few of them I got close enough gave me some hints about how much they were earning.  It was a quite bit more than the official average wage.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 04:03 | 4487943 frenzic
frenzic's picture

I noticed that in Bulgaria too. Some did not even have an address or a mailbox. Now that's the life.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:02 | 4487480 Petrodollar Sys...
Petrodollar System Beneficiary's picture

Russia's last major attempt to expand its ring of influence failed due to technical difficulties:

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Olympic-ring_1-620x45...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 02:40 | 4487883 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Chevron better hope that its better than what Exxon got into in Poland...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230383640457747453250...

Mind you, you could argue the Exxon was told to walk away and claim failure or have their Sakhalin Island concessions "reassigned"....

http://corporate.exxonmobil.com/en/company/worldwide-operations/location...

Putin would never pull a stunt like that...

\sarc

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:10 | 4486949 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

Not to worry...

Obozo, Kerry, and the UN have warned the Ruskies to stay out of it.

Hey, maybe Obozo will even draw another "red line."

That'll really scare ol' Putie-Poot!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:49 | 4487253 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"to the last i grapple with thee. from hell's heart I stab at thee. For hate's sake i spit my last breath at thee."

This is dramatic stuff and a poorly written piece to go along with.
One issue in Ukraine?

Look at the plethora of minorities in Ukraine itself.
Look at the aggrieved Russian minority.

Look at the timing.

And obviously an absolutely massive amount of money has been stolen.

Ukraine has far more than just natural gas. It's coal deposits are truly massive and believe it or not the USA is now a major exporter of coal to Europe.

The land itself...in particular the Crimea...is strategically located.
And of course "this is railroad country"...some of the best in the world.

Glad to see it reported on at the Hedge...glad to see the strong opinions on all sides. This article is a poor start to what is a truly breathtaking and dramatic situation. A "microcosm" if you will of all going on in our new media/meets up an coming world.

It's an ugly world filled with death and violence. We shall see if cooler heads prevail.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:09 | 4486955 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

Rep. Dave Camp: frankly many and most financial institutions are going to do better under this plan than they do now. And you know why they’re going to do better? Because the economy’s going to grow.” |  http://hedge.ly/NAtZwg 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:11 | 4486956 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Got that, Ukrainians? Kindly forsake your own personal and political ideas of self-determination so that EUSSA and Russian oligarchs can make more money and continue the status quo.

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:22 | 4487158 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

well they got that, thats why there is a revolution...thats why the wave of nationalism, thats why they didnt run to mumy after they started to shoot them...

thats why they dont want neither janukovic nor timosenko...

what "Right sector" together with other radical groups there did in the past month is remarkable and extraordinary, i think it will be quite interesting development over there

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:08 | 4487970 Hohlick
Hohlick's picture

Do you understand Ukrainian language? I'll show you "Right Sector" at work... but, may be, you can catch it without words

watch?v=q8JC-ZjqFb4 - here one of the RS top-managers discuss come questions with Rivne' Region public prosecutor.

watch?v=XtxbGjkpkF8 - a little bit earlier, same man visited Rivne Regional Council. "Who wants to take my gun? Who wants to take my knives?"

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:59 | 4488067 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"I'll show you "Right Sector" at work... but, may be, you can catch it without words

watch?v=q8JC-ZjqFb4 - here one of the RS top-managers discuss come questions with Rivne' Region public prosecutor.

watch?v=XtxbGjkpkF8 - a little bit earlier, same man visited Rivne Regional Council. "Who wants to take my gun? Who wants to take my knives?"

Now, it's a legitimate officials EuroNATO of USA. You do not have any right to criticize members of the new legitimate government of Ukraine.
If you do not agree with this new legal authority, then you are pro-Russian fighter and a terrorist. So you are against Western values ??and Western democracy?

Keep in mind what now, you are acting against the world forces of good. But the world forces of good will win you and will be cut off your head.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:12 | 4486959 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Obie

Putin

Who blinks first?

Even under orders I can't see the spineless nit-wit in the WH maintaining composure if this goes hot.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 10:47 | 4487888 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You do realize that Obama can sit back and watch while the "Chess Player" figures out how get Humpty back together again...

And if you don't see that, you are blind to reality...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:13 | 4486964 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

Aipac apologist Charles Smith, does a DEEP analysis, my ass,

So he blames the OIL companys, and talks shit, ... anything to distract people.

*

Yes, its abou GAZPROM, an its about stealing the UKRAINE, and then banning Russian fuel (Gazprom).

But who the fuck paid for the COUP? The USA.

Who Called for the COUP? Israel

Who Will profit? Saudi & Israel

Did CS mention any of this? Fuck no

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:32 | 4487016 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Agreed. These "deep thinkers" like Smith never explain the dominance of our; media, entertainment, banking or foreign policy, by mentioning the outsized presence of a very small gang of you know WHOOS and also never explain how simplistic the lies and distraction are from these people. Deep state...yea right.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:01 | 4487089 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

These "them", are they different from the looney naughties and TPTB, or is there also an even deeper deep central committee of They that directs these they too?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:36 | 4487204 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

Read my post above.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:14 | 4486967 kurt
kurt's picture

I'm a quarter Ukrainian and I have half a mind to kick your whole ass.

I wonder if'n those Ukrainians have the keys and codes for Nukular Bombs? Hmmm.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:22 | 4486989 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

At least officially, Ukraine got rid of the last of its nukes in 1996.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:53 | 4487268 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Russia did complain of certain "violations" just recently.

"Oligarchs of the World Unite."
What really is in our ZH benefit here?

The reporting has been awful.
The one thing that still stands out however is the trading on the debt at 90 cents on the dollar. This sounds like there's a truly massive sum/sums?...of money on the table with "just a shot a way" and it all goes "poof."

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:16 | 4486973 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

On the morning of 9/11 Continuity of Government was initiated.  COG was sold as a rational contingency to a surprise Soviet decapitation strike against the command structure of the US.  Rumsfeld and Cheney were key players in its development and it was/is "double top secret".  As bad as 9/11 was, who here felt that it was so devastating that an alternate command structure contingency was necessary that day?  NOBODY that's not insane... or complicit.

Deep State in some deep shit.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:03 | 4487099 DavidPierre
Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:08 | 4487116 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Caught it already, but thanks DP.  Corbett is one of the few worth the trip.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 19:24 | 4491800 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

charles smith is an AIPAC whore, and as such he has to take the EYE off his team and say "Look over there", ... its the DEEP-State that's fucking you, ... that anybody that mentions "AIPAC", is a anti-semite.

I am a self-hating jew.

If Charles Smith was not an AIPAC whore, he would be at least telling 1% of the truth, instead he is doing the typical AIPAC talking-points and keeping everybody 180 off the real story.

 

Lastly, if CHEVRON wanted to invest their nickels in FRACKING the Ukraine, I am sure nobody except the environmentalists would oppose them.

The only reason CS brought up the 'fracking' word is to get the ENVIRONO-NAZIS all worked up, like global-warming another AIPAC tool to raise taxes, think AL-GORE

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:17 | 4486980 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

Deep State my ASS, its called 'foriegn lobby' running the USA, and nothing deep about it, even retards know that AIPAC run's the US congress and all of the US Government,

CS talks complete shit, ... as if USA oil companys are operating in secret bull fucking shit.

Sure the OIL companys want a share, so does everyone, ... and certainly they're also being SOLD the take-over of UKRAINE.

The basis of this article is that GAZPROM/RUSSIA is bad, and that EU is good, which is complete fucking bullshit.

CS ignores that CIA destroyed UKRAINE and that was on ZH weeks ago, ... everybody even retarded idiots know that HILLARY&LURCH created the COUP.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:19 | 4486983 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

CS invents a new word for an OLD STORY,

 

It's been called the "SHADOW GOVERNMENT", before CS was even fucking born,

Why doesn't CS study and talk about the SHADOW-GOVERNMENT that Eisenhower warned about? Before CS was born.

AZC(AIPAC) killed JFK because he tried to take down AIPAC.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:38 | 4487026 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Are you the new "see, everyone at ZH is a Jew hating, anti-semite" guy?

We don't need you to let us know that Israel has a powerful lobby, ok fucktard?

Mr. 1 week and 1 day

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:49 | 4487056 drink or die
drink or die's picture

I know, right?  Isn't it ironic that the people pushing on ZH the hating of stereotypes are stereotypes themselves.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:55 | 4487070 Boomberg
Boomberg's picture

Satoshi has been around a while. His id keeps getting revoked and he signs up with a new one with a different number suffix. I guess whoever approves new ids hasn't recognized the pattern. 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:01 | 4487639 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

So he's kind of like bitcoins, a bunch of useless numbers.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:04 | 4487968 Invinciblehandaxe
Invinciblehandaxe's picture

@Ignatius

what a useless post of yours, guess we dont need you to tell us what the other guy just told us, shithead

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 09:40 | 4488339 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I'm changing the world here and at a quiet moment you gotta go and fart in church.

Your mother could have done better.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:21 | 4486988 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

Fuck the EU.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:28 | 4487005 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I hear that, but ever spend a winter in Europe?  Paris is at the same latitude as Toronto.  It's awfully cold and gray.  It would be a lot worse without the natty;)

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 04:10 | 4487948 frenzic
frenzic's picture

I dread the day the natty will be gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z1gZf6RniE

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:26 | 4487001 msamour
msamour's picture

I think this article is BS. Come out and name your "Deep State" members, or shut up about it. It's easy to coin expressions like the bogey man, and say bogey man bad, and will eat you if you are out past dark, but it's another thing to actually show said bogey man.

It has been stated here before, When Vladimir Putin decides to act, he acts, he doesn't just talk about it like the leaders of some Western countries.

I am not advocating for one side or another here. I am simply considering a few things:

1) As stated in the article, Ukraine is the cradle of Russian civilization.

2) As was demonstrated in South Ossetia a few years back, Russia will actually invade a territory to protect their interests (not unlike the American "Deep State")

3) Unlike the Americans, Russia does not go half way around the world, way outside their sphere of influence, to invade another country.

4) Russia is still a nuclear armed nation, and people around the world would do well to remember this fact.

5) Russia has been getting cornered by NATO in the last 15 years or so, and they are getting pretty tired of having the leeches around them.

 

I suspect all the analyst will get the predictions wrong on this one. To break Ukraine in half IS in Russia's best interest at this point. I don't foresee for one second any NATO country being able, or willing to mobilize armed forces to intervene in this matter.

 

The Russian Armed Forces may not be what it used to be, but I am quite certain it can take on the Ukrainian Army without too much problems.

 

P.S.: When you take over a political institution by force, and replace the leaders without proper elections it is called a COUP D'ETAT! Just because the mainstream Westernized Media does not talk about it, does not mean it did not happen. People are not stupid! This article assumes people are either uneducated, or uninformed.

 

Enough said...

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:05 | 4487104 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

Im not sure of what point you are trying to make here - as on the one hand you try and say there is no 'deep state', yet on the other recognize that Russia is almost entirely under Putins control.

 

The article seems to suggest that there are other elements involved in control of Russia, however it is evident that Russia is almost totally under Putins control - Putin certainly has support, but they are very loyal - and their interest is ideologically based .. they want a strong Russia that is able to defeat the international banking cabal.

 

The west is indeed dominated by a 'deep state' as the article calls it - which is the internationl bankers - who control a massive global intelligence network, and control politics through media and control of the election process.

 

This small western cabal uses the military and other powers of nations for their own purposes, and frame it such that it appears to be in 'national interest'.  The interests served are only their own, and what impact that has on normal people anywhere is only considered when they need to achieve some political goal - ie. mass murder - such as false flag attacks killing school children, assassinations, poisoning food supplies, crushing nations with debt and so on.

 

Putins goals seem to be based on a desire to strengthen Russia against the western cabal, and to diminish the power of the cabal - everything he has done so far has been a step towards that goal.  It is difficult to derive any other conclusion regarding his motivations.

 

So, with this in mind - it becomes a conflict between the incredibly wealthy western cabal, and Putin and those loyal to his dream of strong Russia, free from western control.

 

I am very sure Putin understands his enemy, their methods and the powers arrayed against him - and I believe he is utterly commited - he will do anything and everything to achieve his goals - because if he fails, the world falls under control of the sociopaths in charge of the west.

 

He has control of Russian media, he has financial control - and he is able to unite Russians to support whatever military action he believes may be successful - he will not flinch from using Russia's military power in Ukraine - so long as victory can be guaranteed - he will use any and all methods.  Overtly using military power against the western cabal is highly dangerous however - as the west is almost completely controlled by their media - so they can create support, and mobilize military force against Russia very quickly if they desire to.

 

Putin always prefers to use methods of transparency and law against the western cabal, which is where it is weakest - as it operates illegally and covertly.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:55 | 4487273 msamour
msamour's picture

You seem to illustrate my point exactly, so I don't even need to explain it to you. There are other folks that certainly don't understand this though.

The point about naming the "Deep State" actors I was trying to make is simply that the author uses a straw man without actually naming its members to criticize one side over the other. That is the mistake I believe he made. He also omitted to point out that Ukraine has recently been under a Coup D'etat, and the government presently there may not be a legitimate one, even if every one in the West says it is.

Good comment on your part. Illustrates very well what I was thinking.

Regards.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:25 | 4487543 Petrodollar Sys...
Petrodollar System Beneficiary's picture

The United States, like Russia, is a nation that has a fighting chance of dominating for the benefit of its elites. Stop glorifying Putin as some crusader only looking to strengthen his people. You doing so reflects a lack of understanding of the purposes of nations. 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 10:54 | 4488842 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

I think Putin is doing what he is doing to preserve the Russian culture - which is an entirely different motive than the international bankers, who want total global control.

 

I am just calling it like I see it - Putin crushed the Jewish oligarchs, and has nationalized many assets they controlled.  Sure he has put his own friends in control of those assets, and sure they will get rich - but so far it doesnt seem like he is looting the nation.  

I have been trying to find as much info as I can to understand the situation - and those are the conclusions I have made so far - I am not a mind reader, I dont know for sure - but thats my take so far.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 19:18 | 4491762 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

There are greater and lessor ASSHOLES, and the USA's ASSHOLES are the master of the universe.

We need to acclaim that which is good, and denigrate that which is evil.

The USA and OBAMA is EVIL.

That Russia and PUTIN are GOOD.

Enough said.

That AIPAC(AZC) that controls the USA is the most evil rotten assholes the world has ever seen.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:47 | 4487962 Element
Element's picture

 

 

- he will not flinch from using Russia's military power in Ukraine - so long as victory can be guaranteed - he will use any and all methods.  Overtly using military power against the western cabal is highly dangerous however - as the west is almost completely controlled by their media - so they can create support, and mobilize military force against Russia very quickly if they desire to.

I can't concur as there is a limit for Putin. Russia can not do anything it wants, it is not omnipotent nor invulnerable and this can attract broad global support against Russia which would be very harmful further down the road. This is a long-game and Crimea is a just a poorly scripted opening act with some rough dialogue. 

The Western media is irrelevant in real strategic policy matters, the military makes all those decisions, and the western media and politicians listen, and be good doggies, or end up in hot water.  Military plans for this have been pre-thunk. The US is making a clear warning to Russia to cool it, and it should.

But NATO also needs to shut it and butt out here.

On top of this, how ridiculous is it for the EU to crush Cyprus, and Russian deposits, then to turn around and seem to suggest that it will cough-up ~38 billion for Ukraine to not default? Yeah, that ain't clear political interference within the region, specifically to spite and offend Russia and undermine its interests and regional security.

One thing is clear though, Russia and Putin are actually angry, and there will be payback.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 19:15 | 4491755 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

Putin Popularitiy in Russian +90%

Obama Popularity in USA -15%

*i

Everyone keep telling us about DEMOCRACY, and who has a good leader, and who is a voice of his people.

AIPAC represents 2% of US electorate, yet represents 99.99% of POWER,  USA is a DEMOCRACY my ass.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:18 | 4488027 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

The point is, and I will say it for you, but the point is that if the the world is tired of being fucked, then they need to take the WAR to ISRAEL and USA and once and for awhile KILL the blood sucking vampires for good.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:33 | 4487017 Tracerfan
Tracerfan's picture

Poland's prospects for natural gas are coming up mostly empty.

Urkaine doesn't have that much, either, in my opinion.  Premise of the article is wrong, in my opinion.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:32 | 4487183 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Agree

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:26 | 4487545 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The hard part is we do not know who is telling the truth on reserves available for fracking in Ukraine, Poland and Belarus.   One day we hear good then we hear that the wells were worthless.  That evil creep Soros is involved as is Chevron and Exxon (CFR Rockefeller).   I am not sure who is behind Chevron.  BP is the Red Shield klan.  Royal Dutch is supposedly one of thedutch royal familes.  Chevron had been part of Rockfeller's Standard Oil of Calif but was broken up by the govt.

Generally with smaller independent oil companies - if there is gas there - they drill and drill fast without waiting.   I wish I knew more about the geology in Eastern Europe.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 17:59 | 4487892 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Reserves are what you have once you have demonstrated production...

It ain't even clear there are extractable resources let alone economic ones in Eastern Europe...

----------------

BTW. We wish you knew a lot more about a lot of things.....

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:16 | 4488026 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

YOU don't know who is telling the truth, but I can tell you if OBAMA or CS' lips are moving, they are lying.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 03:47 | 4487934 yt75
yt75's picture

Yes

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:34 | 4487018 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

This is an interesting line of thought.  I think there's a lot more to the situation in Ukraine, but I don't have any doubt that energy is a very large part of it.  I hadn't known about the fracking exploration in Eastern Europe.  I don't think Putin would be incredibly concerned about it, given the short viability of fracked wells.  But it would certainly be a factor in the situation.  I think other factors to consider would be:

- to surround Russia with a "ring of fire," failed states in strategic locations that threaten to entangle ethnic groups across borders;

- the Kissinger acolytes who have run US foreign policy since Kissinger have always wanted to kick Russia around--look where a lot of them come from;

- to open up Ukraine to NATO missiles (further antagonizing Russia per the last item);

- to open up Ukraine to more IMF/Global Banking extraction, like most of the 3rd World and notable European countries like Latvia, Greece, Ireland, etc.

- to threaten Russian control of the gas pipelines that much closer to Russian soil itself.

And I'm sure I'm missing a lot of others.

I find CHS interesting, though I don't always agree with his take.  Sometimes I find that, even while he's critiquing our collapsing financial/economic system, he seems to think of it as ordained and inevitable.  Though he makes very interesting observations, he seems to think this hodgepodge of abstraction and hocus-pocus is somehow bound to natural laws, like gravity.  He may get right up to the walls of the box, and he examines those walls pretty thoroughly, but he never seems to consider that there's nothing inevitable about this box, and there might be something different outside it.  In this "Deep State Analysis," I wonder if he isn't buying a billing of goods, too.

I'll have to look up info regarding the fracking exploration in non-Russian Eastern Europe, though.  I hadn't thought of that.

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:25 | 4487164 udaman
udaman's picture

"billing of goods"?
U dumb!

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:28 | 4487172 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Oopie.  I should probably zoom in a bit before I hit post.  If you type as much as I do, you find your subconscious mind adding all kinds of sufffixes and so on.

I trust you understood what I meant?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:33 | 4487019 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Fuck the EU

Fuck Obama

Fuck Aipac

Fuck you CS

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:31 | 4487560 Petrodollar Sys...
Petrodollar System Beneficiary's picture

All hail Putin, the rightful heir to the Global Empire! If Russia takes over the world and puts us all in our places, I would be so pleased...anyone got the number to Al-Qaeda recruiting? 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 02:04 | 4487855 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Petrodollar System Beneficiary, it sounds wrong on so many different levels.

Hello Mr. '25 weeks 4 days' shill...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 02:56 | 4487896 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I believe he is quite senior to JohnnyCockIntheAss.... 10 weeks 5 hours....

How about 3 years and 49 weeks....

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 04:15 | 4487949 frenzic
frenzic's picture

long term shill

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 10:54 | 4488831 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sorry you can't handle simple verifiable  facts when its comes to energy, climate, history and geopolitics....

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:15 | 4488023 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

flak, I'll respond to you, cuz your at least a senior moment bitch on ZH.

I have lots of Polish friends, and what they complain most about is going without food for heat, see its costs, about 80% of their monthly income for the apartment, and to properly 'heat' the unit would be 160% of income, so what people do is go COLD, and eat just a little and wear a lot of clothes.

Don't underestimate this issue ZH bitches about 'heating', in the USA, its barely 5% of your income, but in POLAND, or UKRAINE it can be 90% of your income, if you choose to be warm, rather than COLD.

Just saying, cuz its obvious that 99% of ZH bots don't have a fucking clue about the real world.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 08:40 | 4488152 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"I have lots of Polish friends, and what they complain most about is going without food for heat, see its costs, about 80% of their monthly income for the apartment, and to properly 'heat' the unit would be 160% of income, so what people do is go COLD, and eat just a little and wear a lot of clothes."

When was the Soviet Union, Poland was ranked 10th in the world in industrial production. When come freedom with EuroNATO of USA, Poland has slipped to 50th place.

Now polsky nation has only one freedom: to leave their plundered country for to work in other countries, as waitresses, cleaners and prostitute.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 08:29 | 4488131 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"If Russia takes over the world and puts us all in our places, I would be so pleased...anyone got the number to Al-Qaeda recruiting? "

Al-Qaeda was not created in Moscow and Putin.
Al-Qaeda was created in the United States and is the brainchild of the CIA. Terrorism is the main tool of US politics worldwide and in the United States.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:10 | 4488018 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

There is INTELLIGENT life on ZH, and now we have found proof. Please unplug SETI, 'mission accomplished'

 

Yes, FUCK EU(NAZIS), fuck USA (Nazis), fuck Obama( Hitler with black skin ), fuck AIPAC ( zionists, Nazi enablers ) , and most of all FUCK CS and the hobby horse he rode in on.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:41 | 4487035 Remnant_Army
Remnant_Army's picture

“You will hear about wars. You will also hear people talking about future wars. Don’t be alarmed. Those things must happen. But the end still isn’t here. Nation will fight against nation. Kingdom will fight against kingdom. People will go hungry. There will be earthquakes in many places. All these are the beginning of birth pains." Mt 24

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/time-for-the-second-seal-to-open-a...

 

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/second-seal-world-war-3/

 

Don't mention the war!  ;)  if anybody is in mood for an old comedy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0


Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:43 | 4487037 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Blue Horseshoe says Gazpromia is calm, cool, and collected. (which is a bit unnerving, but then my nerves are getting accustomed to the Lurch & Barry drama queen performance)

And a meager $350m exploratory commitment from Chevron doesn't do anything advance the case of the aspiring Beverly Hillbillies getting rich quick (particularly from the energy experts at Christian Science Monitor). However, taking over a kleptocracy and perpetuating the status quo while promising to do otherwise is a tried and true method of getting rich quick.

Take the "Deep State Analysis" and put it deep where the sun don't shine.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 20:45 | 4487039 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture

One good guess who A.C. might be... Anderson Cooper?

 

Here is a good read.

 

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/07/15/the-ataa-deep-state-psychosis/

 

It may be more than another embarrassing security scandal. One counter-intelligence official familiar with Edmonds’s case has told Vanity Fair that the F.B.I. opened an investigation into covert activities by Turkish nationals in the late 1990’s. That inquiry found evidence, mainly via wiretaps, of attempts to corrupt senior American politicians in at least two major cities—Washington and Chicago. Toward the end of 2001, Edmonds was asked to translate some of the thousands of calls that had been recorded by this operation, some dating back to 1997.

[ . . . ]

. . . in December 2001, Joel Robertz, an F.B.I. special agent in Chicago, contacted Sibel and asked her to review some wiretaps. Some were several years old, others more recent; all had been generated by a counter-intelligence that had its start in 1997. “It began in D.C.,” says an F.B.I. counter-intelligence official who is familiar with the case file. “It became apparent that Chicago was actually the center of what was going on.”

I wonder how close a relationship there is between Övünç and another Turkish Chicagoan, Mehmet Çelebi, whose fundraising for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign was eventually dropped faster than a hot potato.

 

 

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:04 | 4487103 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Smells like a gas war between Gazprom and Chevron.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:07 | 4487112 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

peter dale scott should be credited for the idea of the deep state as it is merely a corollary to his deep politics about which he wrote extensively over the past 30-40 years.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 21:40 | 4487222 samsara
samsara's picture

Yes, good writer. His piece called "The Deep State behind US Democracy"

http://www.voltairenet.org/article169316.html

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:07 | 4487262 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Charles, what about using Bruce Bueno de Mesquita for prediction?

E.g. http://www.predictioneersgame.com/

http://www.ted.com/talks/bruce_bueno_de_mesquita_predicts_iran_s_future....

Seems to me that he's the leading Near-Future forecaster, based scientific models of Game Theory.  The H2 History channel had several programs on him, and referred to him as a Modern Nostradamus.

Am pretty sure that the Russians don't realize the extent to which the US (CIA, DOD) uses Game Theory for predictive analysis and strategic planning in the case of Ukraine.  The general public and even most ZHers are totally clueless to this fact, of course.

If I were the Ruskies, I'd retain him and see what outcomes his model predicts, vs the outcomes of their own game theorists.  Consider it a form of "Prediction Benchmarking" (just made up the word).

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:49 | 4487436 Balanced Integer
Balanced Integer's picture

And right on cue!

 

 

 

In Crimea's capital, Maxim, a pro-Russian activist who refused to give his last name, said he and other activists had camped overnight outside the local parliament in Simferopol when 50-60 men wearing flak jackets and carrying rocket-propelled grenade launchers and sniper rifles took over the building.

 

"Our activists were sitting there all night calmly, building the barricades," he said. "At 5 o'clock unknown men turned up and went to the building. They got into the courtyard and put everyone on the ground.

 

"They were asking who we were. When we said we stand for the Russian language and Russia, they said: 'Don't be afraid. We're with you.' Then they began to storm the building bringing down the doors," he said. "They didn't look like volunteers or amateurs; they were professionals. This was clearly a well-organized operation."

 

"Who are they?" he added. "Nobody knows."

 

 

 

Can't say I know for a God-honest certainty, but I have a pretty damned good idea. They are GRU operators. Many are probably former Spetznaz with time spent doing some heavy lifting in Chechnya before being recruited into the army's intelligence services (GRU). Back in the old Soviet days, this would've made them KGB border guards type (I forget which directorate that was, probably KGB 5th), the ones that drew the really gruesome assignments in Afghanistan all the way until the Red Army withdrew.

After the breakup of the CCCP, the Fifth(?) Directorate was spun off with domestic counterintelligence into the GRU. If the gunmen who seized the Crimean parliament building are indeed GRU types, we could be seeing the first stages of the reintegration of the GRU with the FSB..back into the KGB of old. Oh, they won't call it the KGB of course. Probably keep calling it FSB.

Anyway, I digress. A Russian SpecOps team moves into the parliament building, raises the Russian flag and gets those patriotic juices flowing. All those pro-Russian Ukrainians (who have Putin-issued Russian passports, by they way) start calling for Russian intervention in the Crimea and environs east of the Dnieper River. Next comes the false flag event, when a number of those poor pro-Russian quasi-citizens get themselves killed by a supposed "nationalist reactionary faction." Then come the tanks, APCs, and Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters roaring across the border, with Putin proclaiming a "peacekeeping mission" for Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

Should be interesting to see how NATO responds.

 

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:16 | 4487519 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a GRU.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:23 | 4487534 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Agree mostly...except the false flag part...

The nationalists are crazy enough to step in the hell themselves...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 02:39 | 4487881 Balanced Integer
Balanced Integer's picture

Maybe so. But I'd be damned skeptical of any mass casualty event that occurs in the Crimea. Matrushka dolls going on all over the place there - dolls within dolls, and so on.

As I said in a previous thread: It's all about Sevestopol and the Russian fleet base there. Russia wants it. Any event that furthers their aims in that regard is an orchestrated one imho.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:33 | 4487567 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The same type of Spec Ops operators for the State Dept, NWO are in the Ukraine on the ground.   Oddly a foreign country, probably dual citizens like more than a few in Congress, are on the ground.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 22:55 | 4487460 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

FYI... http://rt.com/news/ukraine-crimea-parliament-government-056/

"...The regional parliament then voted in favor of holding an All-Crimean referendum on the status of the Autonomous Republic, with 61 out of 64 MPs supporting the poll"

---> Ukrainian 'Kosovo'.  Crimea becomes Russian 'protectorate'.  US has hissy fit.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:00 | 4487472 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I would venture a guess there is enough gas in Poland and the Western Ukraine to power at least one good Merkel fart.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:43 | 4487726 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I am sorry to inform you that you are too optimistic.  May I suggest you check the size of Merkel'a ###?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:15 | 4487515 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

As we're seeing in the US fracking is a very short term energy play that only benefits a few big companies while leaving behind a devastated landscape and busted economy. The idea that  Ukranian or Polish fracking fields could affect Russia's gas sales to the EU even medium term is pretty silly. Meanwhile the fracking would devastate agriculture for decades and starve millions of people. The same people who just tossed out a dictator and fought the army and police with molotov cocktails aren't going to sit by while western companies frack their food and water supply. And you can bet that they will be a lot better armed when they go after the frackers than they were when they toasted the police. My guess is that they will probably have access to the latest Russian weapons and plenty of ammo. Doesn't take much more than an RPG or two to take out a fracking tower or pipeline, and I'm sure they will know exactly which pipelines should be hit.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 03:44 | 4487931 yt75
yt75's picture

Yes exactly, and it is already pretty much stopped in Poland.

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:41 | 4487593 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Fracking does not pose a long term threat to Russian energy companies. Fracking represents a short term blip on long term dependence on Russian energy. And in the short term, China will buy, without need of one petro dollar, all the energy the trains, pipelines and tankers can carry to the world's workshop. So while the fracking dream can produce energy, at very high cost in capital investment, fresh water inputs and long term land, water and air pollution, it doesn't have the legs long term. A flash in the pan and a sign of utter desperation for ebergy poor nations. Ukraine and Poland can be fracked, but I doubt there are enough plays to go the long run. Keep you eyes peeled on the big USA plays, study carefully where they are at in five years, I will retract all my words, if these plays can be shown to be going full tilt in 2019.

The EU is a front agency for Corporations and the USA/European Military Industrial Complex. Ukraine offers nothing economically but a giant debt sink hole. Some use can be made of cheap labor there, but Ukraine can't really compete in the world economy. After EU membership, German products and Chinese imports will make most Ukrainians, not employed by government, unemployed. The EU is taking on a giant sink hole. So we can ask, what will Putin do will all those billions upon billions in capital he no longer need flush down the Urkrainian toilet?

Thu, 02/27/2014 - 23:57 | 4487632 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

deep state is telling me, follow the money

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 03:52 | 4487725 prioris
prioris's picture

Deep State describes the middle tier management people behind the scenes.The upper tier are the globalists and their invisible power structures. The aliens would likely be the top tier on this planet. You really think they just left the planet. The real power structure in this world is hidden. The politicians are window dressing and elections here and around the world are generally fraudulent.

Lower tier populations are generally sociopath and apolitical and easily manipulated as a group. They can act up in a locality but very rarely. The state can easily assassinate or threaten the little people.

The middle and upper tiers tend to be the ones behind the scenes who orchestrate protests whether pro or anti. The Deep State will usually control all the political parties from behind the scenes as they do the elections.

Remember Solidarity and Lech Walensa. There was an example of a fake protest that was orchestrated by the globaliosts with Polands intelligence agencies and their agents (Lech Walensa). Of course when Lech Walensa got anointed to a political office, he proceeded to screw over the polish people.

The Nicaraguan Sandanista government during the 80s was also just another intelligence operation by the globalists. The conflict in Central America were artificially created.

In France, there was widespread rioting some years back. This was also an artificial event. The LA riot was an artificially created event.

In the US past, the pentagon was behind orchestration of both anti-war and pro war protests in the US.

Artificially created wars, conflicts, protests and riots are usually inspired by the state.

You may wonder why they do that. We live in a matrix. Their larger plan is to win the battle against your mind. They come at people from all different directions. They want to mind fu-- you into the matrix. If they are successful, your mind will live in that compartmentalized box too crippled to analyze anything. They are very sophisticated mother fu--ers. The general population is too crippled to be able to analyze what is going on around them. Most will go to their graves buried in bs.

These things rarely have anything to do with - we the people. What goes on internally in the above power structures is just not publicized. There will be compartmentalization of knowledge even within those structures. Given that they put violent sociopaths into the higher positions, I can imagine the gkibalists may need to cull a few within their own organizations.

This is not to say there may be some sincere people involved at the lower levels in these artificial events but they are generally out of the loop of what is going on. They bought into the illusion. What can get people top act up is if you steal from them directly like take their land etc. Populations rarely revolt because of corruption. Most people are indifferent to it.

I can imagine that conflicts between organized crimes factions at lower levels can break out some where on earth on ocassions . Most organized crime is protected by the state military and security agencies. The middle tier power structures tend to go after the money. The upper and top tiers prefer that since it consolifates wealth in the hands of fewer people. It's like the lottery where someone wins $435 million minus taxes. It would be better if 100 people won 4 million-minus taxes each but that goes against the idea of consolidating the wealth into fewer hands. At least 99% of the money on this planet is controlled by a few hands. Most wealth that is created is off the public books.

Calling it a "protest" is just deceit and part of the matrix. There are deeper things going on under the surface. Too bad the power structures at all leveks don't publicize their inner conflicts. The politicians are just figure heads to entertain us. It would make analysis easier. We are kept in the matrix. This will be played out by the insiders whether it is caused by something real or artificial. Outside of public relation maneuvers, what the general population of Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine think does not matter to the people in power.

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:53 | 4487741 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Wake me up when Russia claims they're been fired on by rebels in Fort Sumtervastopol.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 00:55 | 4487745 prioris
prioris's picture

Events on earth are not about money in the top and upper power structures. They have an unlimited supply of money.

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:03 | 4487760 prioris
prioris's picture

When the term "activist" is used, it is usually a covert intel operative dressed up to play a fake role in something.

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 01:03 | 4487761 prioris
prioris's picture

When the term "activist" is used, it is usually a covert intel operative dressed up to play a fake role in something.

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 03:17 | 4487894 Element
Element's picture

Ah, so we're right back to that again, eh? The old nuclear-power's Russian-Sino-Washington-NATO sabre-rattle thing is at it once more? Ok then, let's go for a little historical jaunt, to examine the merits of this sort of approach in a few earlier instances.

I have many examples to call on but here's a good one. Anyone who thinks the US isn't intending on retaining military dominance over the Pacific Basin today, should maybe read the following verbatim quote, formerly "TOP SECRET", and from a 1958 US Air Force document that's been declassified in April 2005, titled:

FIFTH AIR FORCE IN THE TAIWAN STRAITS CRISIS OF 1958

Below is a quote from it regarding the US's intention to use nuclear weapons "within a couple of days", if high-intensity combat developed between Chinese and US forces. i.e. in the event the PLA attempted to remove US forces from the area, in order to re-take Taiwan. Indeed the document itself states within it that the Russian leadership had already sent a letter to the US government directly warning of a pending major battle over Taiwan, and they said the Soviet Union would be backing such an attack to take Taiwan off the Chinese Nationalists.

We don't know what the US's reply was to this letter, as far as I know it's never been released, but we do know what the US forces were then ordered to do, if the threatened attack on US forces took place. This document records that the US military immediately responded with their EWR (Emergency War Plan) coded as "OPLAN 25-58", which plan included the explicit early-employment of nuclear weapons.

This very same document records that US forces had already begun to execute the first part of this "OPlan 25-58", when without warning, or even explanation, the Chinese suddenly declared a unilateral cease-fire. I strongly suspect the Soviets had observed the US build-up and realised the US really was going to nuke both China and Russia, so the Soviets apparently told China to call it off and to back-down immediately, and do not escalate things further.

the following quote also makes clear that "DC", i.e. Eisenhower's White House office, had already decided to nuke the Chinese if the situation escalated to high-intensity conventional battle, for more than, "a couple of days" of conventional bombing.

So this was probably the closest the world had come to WWIII, before the "Cuban Missile Crisis" occurred soon after, as the implied Soviet message to Washington was obvious, i.e. don't you nuke the Chinese when they attack you, withdraw, or else we'll nuke you, in return. Apparently it was a bluff and when the US got in place to attack the Soviets wanted nothing more to do with taking Taiwan. Probably the Chinese had put them up to it, and they never believed a nuclear threat would work anyway.

But besides all that, the following is what occurred as a result, a formal description of the need to rapidly and formally organise the chain of command approval for nuclear bombardment on China as soon as possible after hostilities commenced, as the US was convinced this was most likely about to occur, to the quote:

A REASSESSMENT AT HIGH LEVEL
 
In response to a call from General Kuter at a conference on the Taiwan situation to be held at the 13th Air Force Headquarters in November, General Burns asked Colonel Hanes, Colonel Helton and Colonel Maxwell*, to accompany him to Clark Air Base to Join General Kuter and General Moorman.
 
The purpose of calling the conference, as General Kuter explained, was to enable him to prepare a presentation on the Taiwan crisis at a high level meeting in Washington later that month.
 
The meeting took place on 5, 6 and 7 of November, as Clark and John Hay Air Bases as the locale. There Fifth's representatives provided General Kuter with the needed information concerning what had already happened in the Taiwan Straits crisis and then reviewed their capabilities for the further conduct of OPlan 25-58. In the discussion that followed, the paramount issue was the employment of hight explosives (Iron Bomb) verses nuclear weapons, and the following conclusions were reached:
 
a.   Our posture could support only a few days of iron bomb operations.
 
b.   An iron bomb war would quickly dissipate our EWP capability.
 
c.   Quick reaction time by the CASF would be essential to the retention of an EWP posture.
 
d.   Command channels and relationships must be pre-planned and clearly delineated for contingency operations.
 
The question of which type of weapon to employ in case of actual combat in the Taiwan theater had been one of paramount importance to the Air Force commands concerned from the outset of the Taiwan operation, as exemplified in a succession of communications on the subject."

So the US 5th and 13th Air Forces had extensive discussions and meetings then communicated with headquarters to contact Washington regarding the conditions for the employment of conventional iron bombs followed soon after by a nuclear bombardment. The precise communications authority was needed for the release and the air forces wanted to make sure this was set up and ready to go before the Chinese attacked. So they hammered that out during 3-days of meetings, followed by the Washington meetings and the specific orders were sent from Washington to the deployed Air Forces (as you'll see below).

At the time the Chinese were daily attacking Taiwan nationalist-controlled Islands close to the mainland, with a continuous artillery barrage. ~400,000 heavy shells landed on these Islands, while several dogfights developed above the Taiwan Straits using jet fighters and ~32 PLAAF fighters were destroyed and only 2 Nationalist fighters were lost (apparently there was camera footage to confirm this hosing of the PLAAF).

This battle incidentally also utilised the first ever combat use of an Infra-red air-to-air missile, namely the US Sidewinder. The Chinese PLAAF complained bitterly about these US missiles being delivered to Taiwan, but it sent a clear message to Beijing and Moscow that they were in for a serious fight if they wanted to take any part of the Pacific Basin beyond the end-of-WWII mutually agreed territories.

The #13 footnote regarding the final sentence within that quote references the following 5 specific communications to seek clarification for deployed Air Forces to use nuclear weapons, via senior commanders communicating with "DC" (see the 4th and 5th message replies listed, with the orders from Washington for their use being received) in the event of expanded Chinese attacks

Msg, 5AF to PACAF (TS), 5FOOT-TOC 58-3278, 26 Aug 58, App 18;
Msg, 5AF to 18TFW and 7 TDS, 5FOOT-TOC 58-3280, 26 Aug 58, App 19;
Msg, 5AF to PACAF (TS), 5FOOT-TOC 58-3369H, 28 Aug 58, App 20;
Msg, CINCPACAF to 13AF, 5AF, et al (TS), PFL DC 0747, 30 Aug 58, App 21;
Msg, CINCPACAF to 13AF, PFL DC 0878, 19 Sep 58, App 22.

The same document states that several documents which it refers to remain unavailable due to their still highly-restricted contents. These most probably referred to the specific nuclear weapon types and their yield to be used on specific Chinese military and industrial targets.

This same document also says that at the time of the nuclear attack planning meetings, that the US was already executing the initial phase of OPlan 25-58 so this nuclear attack plan had already been set into motion. Their primary concern which was strongly emphasised several times within the document was to make sure there were enough iron bombs (i.e. for all other theaters as well), hence their overriding concern was not to use too many of the USAF's iron bomb stockpile on China alone.

This was a concern because the Soviets were implicitly threatening escalation to WWIII, if the US counter-attacked China with nukes, thus a much expanded period of combat would follow, with Russia, as well. And they knew the Russians would be preparing for this, hence it would be necessary to resort to nukes, much earlier than otherwise required, in order to take the Chinese threat completely out of the picture, so that the US could focus all forces on a full-blooded thermonuclear pre-emptive attack, deep inside the Russian interior. So China was going to be thoroughly smashed within days of starting a larger concerted battle over the Taiwan Straits. It hadn't quite happened, but it was really close to happening.

Today is not be 1958, but the strategic equations that applied then, to the pacific context, apply the same now, if not even more so. And we can be quite sure the Pentagon still has its 'EWP OPlan 25-14' ready to go. The current generation, in Beijing, appears to have forgotten the way the US military reacted to their earlier attempts to alter the post-WWII Pacific-basin strategic balance (and just 13 years after WWII had ended they tried it on).

this document tells us a lot, for instance, the United States security agencies don't just declassify documents like this in April 2005 for no particular reason. This was done for effect, a reminder and a warning to Beijing to tread lightly in the Pacific.

i.e. don't go getting any funny ideas about making a military-inspired adjustment to territory, any time soon.

Shortly after the document release in 2005, Washington then announced the radical new policy of direct "engagement" with China, awarding most-favoured-nation trade status for the 'commie' giant. The point was to befriend China, constructively welcome it to take its place in the world, and thus remove the distrust and animosity from old wars and wounded pride.

But given this has not been going so well, lately, especially with regard to Japan and South China Sea territorial assertions, we're now going to see some increasingly blunt hints, some sabre-rattling from the US, for Beijing to put a sock in it, and adjust to its strategic reality that the US is far too strong for China to survive a strategic confrontation with.

I'm not keen on a 'new American century' considering the tens of millions of completely innocent people slaughtered during the past one, but I do understand strategic power, and what brings it about, how it's levered by geography, resources weapon structures and linkages. The US has all of this in spades and China doesn't. So China will remain in its role of a sort of 'trouble-maker' for the US State Dept's perennial delusions-of-grandeur, i.e. just like it was with regard to the Korean war, Taiwan crisis, and the Vietnam war.

But in all those cases, China was responding to its own strategic vulnerabilities, bought about by having the US military running thousands of combat missions right up to its border, and attempting to install pro-western puppets next door.

Sort of like what the EU is trying to do with at least a large part of Ukraine, with respect to Russia. So it's pretty clear that sort of thing, if it persists from here, will result in a serious and exceptionally dangerous military conflict. This is not a time for mindless nationalistic propaganda, this is the time for clear-eyed analysis and some timely and realistic responses from the pro-EU affectionados.

But getting back to China for a moment, all that's happened since Vietnam is that a lot less western bombs have been falling right beside China's borders (if we ignore Afghanistan for the moment, and why not), but nothing has fundamentally changed strategically in the Pacific since 1958, either.

So Beijing needs to come to terms with its inability to make any effective changes to the prevailing strategic equation, for many decades beyond 2014. I've previously said I think the real regional danger is not China, it's what antics the US gets up to, in the interim, which will endanger everyone, given the US and China are in such close proximity.

Some have complained recently that the US military still hasn't really poured large forces into the Western Pacific, yet. Frankly, I hope they don't get to carried away with that, as China is not going to be a real threat, until the US is really threatening it. And given the US wants to sell its wares via fear of China, I'd say the US is going to threaten China quite a lot soon if China gives them a reason to. And they probably will.

Without doubt an arms-race has commenced in Asia. The Abbot Govt in Australia after buying a fleet of new PC-8As and coveting some new Trident BAMS drones, announced also this week that it plans to actually double defence-spending during the next 10 years. Haven't checked but I think the last time that happened it was at the outset of WWII.

Now no doubt some US readers are now thinking that the ordering of a massive nuclear strike by Eisenhower can't possibly be true, that it must be a gross exaggeration as Eisenhower would never have ordered the first and early use of thermonuclear weapons on China, well think again. We actually know that he did do this from another declassified source document, titled: "The Air Force And Strategic Deterrence 1951 - 1960" (page 27), that was published in Dec 1967.

In it is described a multi-year argument in the mid-1950s between all the US armed service chiefs regarding when nuclear weapons would be used, within even a conventional war situation, against Soviet-backed communist block conventional forces, or even the Soviet Union itself.

Eisenhower was asked to provide a clear answer to this dispute and he directly informed them that their respective nuclear weapons in each service would be used early, very soon after, or even immediately after conventional hostilities had begun, as per the following revealing quote from this documented clarification which was given to the US Joint Chiefs, then conveyed to all senior service commanders and operations and target planners:

In other words, this was as nasty as sabre-rattling can possibly get ... back to the quote ...:

"Even after the Joint Logistics Plan Committee (JLPC) declared that a general conventional war could not be supported logistically [Soviet nuclear attacks would rendering WWII style large scale battles impossible to organise and sustain], the Army continued to argue that nuclear weapons might not be used.  When the Air Force's Dissent came to the Attention of Adm. Arthur W. Radford, chairman of the JCS [Joint Chiefs of Staff] he objected to the duel plans and duel strategies.  Since the disagreements over strategy continued , the matter was referred to President Eisenhower.  He ruled that nuclear weapons would be used from the outset of a general war. Subsequently, both the JSCP and the Joint Strategic Objectives Plan (JSOP) were revised to reflect this important decision and the conventional war strategy was dropped. The JCS approved the plans on 27 June 1956. 13
 
In march 1957 the Army and Navy again objected to USAF strategic air concepts. Specifically, they questioned the need for large numbers of high-yield nuclear weapons, complaining about what they called "overbombing" and "over-destruction". A related term, "overkill", came into popular usage several years later when Gen. Maxwell D Taylor, Army Chief of Staff, told the House of Representatives in Jan 1959 that the nation had enough nuclear weapons in its strategic force to annihilate the enemy some 10 times over."

Unfortunately the reference #13 mentioned was not included within the declassified historical account of this major clarification by Eisenhower and its fundamental change to how the US would fight ANY war with Russia, which immediately affected all war planning and policy concepts in the most dramatic possible way, removing all ambiguity, from June 1956 forwards until at least the Cuban missile crisis, when fortunately some ambiguity finally returned once more.

In other words, Vietnam was far more dangerous than almost anyone today realises, but as it was a more limited area or war rather than a general regional conventional war it did not trigger the large-scale early pre-emptive nuclear attack by Washington's Presidents (but if a General Curtis LeMay type person had become the US President during that period you'd not be around to read this sentence, would you, you'd be a well dispersed layer of soot instead ... so much for the idea of investing in one man the authority to unilaterally launch a massed thermonuclear strike).

However, even this very slight mellowing of the US response was no guarantee, as in 1959 the US Joint Chiefs again hotly debated using B-47 launched nuclear weapons over the northern Laos rainforests, close to the north Vietnamese border, even before the war against North Vietnam had begun. See this further declassified document, if you don't believe this occurred as well and that Eisenhower had actively considered doing it as well:

The War in Northern Laos, 1954-1973 (see page 22 thru 26)
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB248/war_in_northern_laos.pdf

So the massive artillery and aerial bombing campaign that eventually became known as the attack on the "Ho-Chi-Minh-trail", had commenced in secret long before the Vietnam war was officially triggered by the Gulf of Tonkin torpedo-gunboat pretext. That was used by Kennedy, in 1961, to escalate to a limited medium intensity conventional war against Chinese and Russian-equipped and backed communist regulars and peasant guerillas.

Eisenhower deployed at least 900 US military to South Vietnam by 1959 then US troop levels tripled in 1961 as Kennedy and Johnson began warmongering, and within only three months of coming to office Kennedy ordered the failed invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs. Kennedy then also tripled the US forces in Vietnam again during 1962, even as the Soviets were now secretly moving nuclear warheads and missiles to Cuba due to Kennedy's prior spectacularly failed invasion and coup attempt the previous year.

Clearly the Soviets judged Kennedy likely to trigger a war with Russia, and Moscow wanted to make sure they were in a position to destroy Washington, within 1-hour, in the event of naked aggression by Kennedy. And when Kennedy finally learned of what the Russians were doing the Pentagon and White House both believed the Russians still had no warheads available for them. But as it turned out only AFTER THE CRISIS did they learn that the Russians had in fact already fitted warheads to the missiles (from memory it was a total of 72 warheads) at the time the US discovered them inside Cuba. The Pentagon wanted to go in with fighter bombers and destroy the IRBMS, and Kennedy almost let them do it, calling it off at the last moment.

If Kennedy had not hesitated the US would have been hit by a massive EMP attack, at the very least, and then maybe up to as many as 60 ground bursts over half of the US mainland. Followed up by mor missiles and bombers from Russia.

The US would have been totally creamed, assuredly wiped-out, destroyed, never to rise again. This mess of Kennedy's was all originally set in motion by Eisenhower, but Kennedy was a demented egomaniacle philandering warmongering grand idiot and quickly made it his own mess and continued on with it. Today people still don't grasp how lucky humanity was to survive that entire period from June 1956 through to the beginning of the Detente era, in the early 1970s and the SALT I agreement the came from it in May 1972. It's no exaggeration to say that global civilisation only just survived that 16 year period by the narrowest of conceivable margins, and even after this it was still almost as dangerous. See this if you think not:

Special Report - The nuclear war scare of 1983: how serious was it? - Australian Strategic Policy Institute
https://www.aspi.org.au/publications/special-report-the-nuclear-war-scar...

Thus it was very clear during 1959 and less than one year after the Taiwan Crisis that itself had almost produced WWIII that any conventional war engagements against a communist force backed by either China or Russia, would be sufficient to trigger a pre-emptive large-scale nuclear attack by Washington.

US Politicians and Generals claimed nuclear bombardment to be the last resort, and that they would not use it first, but that is now known to have been a flat-out lie for public consumption. Thermonuclear bombardment was in fact the first resort, and it was fully intended to be pre-emptively used, and on an unlimited scale of weapon application.

In fact the concept of a limited nuclear strike didn't even exist at that time (and many said then and since his also was a ruse and would never worked in practice, and they were clearly and logically right), so a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Laos in 1959, likewise implied a simultaneous surprise nuclear attack on Moscow, and Beijing, and one every Russian city.

And this was about hitting the cities, it was not about hitting "military targets", in fact the US airforce and SAC documents of the time were very clear about this. They intended to destroy the Russian heartland, completely, then, and only then, destroy residual military forces.

Why would they propose to do that? The horrifying answer was simple and also totally 'logical'.

Few people realise it but this was in fact just an extension of the same conventional bomber attack strategy (which I've written about prior) used by the British and also American Air Forces, during WWII, to destroy the cities first, and then to destroy the military forces, which would then be rendered disorganised and unable to supply or fight effectively or regenerate, so would be easily overpowered once the civilian centres were demolished.

And it worked.

That was exactly what the Allies actually did, in both central Europe, and then in Japan. Only in June 1956 Eisenhower said they were going to continue the same tactic which had culminated in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and implement the same attack strategy to eliminate the military capacities of Russia and China as well. Only it would happen much faster using weapons that ranged from 25 to 250 times the yield of WWII's A-bombs.

The problem now was the Russians had now copied the A-bomb, reverse engineered and copied the B-29, and were also copying the WWII Allied strategic attack strategy of targeting cities themselves, rather than targeting fielded troops and weapons production, etc. They had learned all of the West's tricks and technologies. They knew the only way to survive was to target the West's densest population centers. they also went after nuclear launch sites and bomber bases as well, but killing the cities was the knockout blow. If you could kill their cities and save most of your own, you would win.

And why would you want to 'win' a nuclear war?

T O    R U L E    T H E    F U N K I N G    W O R L D    O F    C O U R S E !

sheesh! ... what a dumb question!

Hey, you may not like it, but this is what was really going on, and if you doubt any of what I'm saying, I assure you I have the source documents to substantiate that it's the case.

Indeed, this very city targeting rationale was being used by USAF and SAC. Their early argument for the much bigger city-killing 'TN' bombs, was made years prior to the Soviets exploding the world's first thermonuclear munition, in 1953. Their basic logic was the following; all the Japanese cities were made of flimsy flammable timber construction thus the effect of the A-bomb were exaggerated within a Japanese urban context. They would in fact be much less destructive if used in a Western or Soviet concrete and steel city, which would offer much greater impedance to shock wave, blast and thermal effects. It was argued Soviet buildings are much stronger and far less flammable so 20 kt A-bombs were not going to be effective against dense Soviet urban centers and surrounding suburbs.

Thus much more explosive power would be required to break-up and level a Soviet city and to force them components to melt and incandesce and burn, anyway. The fact that a 1 MT fireball also scorched everything for ~25 kilometers radius was a fortuitous upside, as it practically guaranteed that the entire civilian organisation and structures would be permanently demolished and depopulated.

Militarily, thermonuclear weapons we essentially ideal, they could be produced in effectively unlimited numbers and were relatively cheap to make if you scaled up production - THE PERFECT SOVIET CITY KILLER. So the US ordered well over ten thousand of them to kill the cities, plus a vast quantity of A-bombs, but these were for moping up the actual military targets thereafter. You only needed tiny A-bombs to entirely annihilate the Soviet military as for other than militarily desirable EMP effects, the remaining thermonuclear bombs would be redundant for destroying actual military targets.

And this remains true to this today, the high-yield thermonuclears with in the US, Russian, French, British and Chinese arsenals are for destroying all enemy cities to eliminate as much of the civilian population as possible, and the low-yield 'cute'-nukes are for destroying major airbases, fielded armies, fleets and home ports and transport and logistics hubs. This is why the yield-sizes and numbers involved make no sense, and this is why they all retain the massive city-killer doomsday yield weapons, even though they are completely in appropriate for any viable military use and a massive overkill against any conceivable military targets.

It's because these were never meant to destroy military targets at all - and they still aren't. But somehow this has never really sunk-in, that all of these supposedly civilised governments were planning to do something that Adolf Hitler would have ejaculated just from thinking about it, but the more disgusting fact is, they are all still planning for the time when they do it. Otherwise they would have eliminated and banned all high-yield warhead designs by now.

So these clearly are indisputably not military weapons, their sole purpose is nothing other than global mass-murder.

The US and Russian strategic arsenals in 2014 still primarily consist of these same city killers, which demonstrates that these were not then nor today could possible be considered "military weapons" with any valid direct military-verses-military combat purpose.

So why do these bombs still exist? Why are they even listed within military arsenals any more? Are we all ok with an impromptu global holocaust then?

And why do we continue to tolerate these warmongering irresponsible power-tripping idiots like Putin and Obama to be "in control" of mass-holocaust devices that don't even qualify to be called valid 'weapons' of legitimate warfare and self-defense?

Why is that?

Well it's also very simple and horrifyingly logical, it's the same reason why the military allows civilian control and a civil 'system', at all. The military knows that without the civil system it's virtually impossible for the modern military to operate effectively. For instance, civilian off-the-shelf-technology and services are massively more available and cheaper, plus easier and faster to replace and to develop. And civilians can be harnessed to pay for extreme military power and strategic antics. They are also replaceable and a resource to be used and squandered. You only have to keep them in line, and most of them respond to inducements.

But as soon as the civil organisation is removed, the military offensive and defensive capability plummets precipitously to a low level, and stays there. So civilians are essential, so you have to allow them to have their own system, but with the military stepping in to make sure they do what is required, if they act up.

In the case of Japan once almost all the civilian cities were shattered to cinders the Japanese military could barely launch aircraft to offer any effective opposition to the three B-29s accompanying the attack on Hiroshima. There was no resistance, no air battle, they just dropped it, filmed the carnage for a bit then flew away.

And another thing, when they bombed Hiroshima they did not target the militarily significant port or industrial area, they specifically targeted the densest part of the civil urban centre and surrounding suburbs, as once the humans are soot the industrial area won't operate or be repaired and rebuilt anyway. Mission accomplished.

In 2014 your military, your government, your president or your prime minister does not give one rat's-ass about mass-murdering an entire civil population. Yes, they make tremendous show and moral pretension of not doing so, and voiding that at great artifice and effort, and it does makes terrific Utube video dramas and for prime-time tripe, but you don't have to dig down too far in the documents to find the despicable horrible truth, and the clear material evidence of the real behaviour and policy.

In a strategic general war, discriminate slaughter is the norm, while sparing civilian life is the aberration, for which you can get court-marshalled and shot if you disobeyed orderers that were designed to specifically lead to the general slaughter and mass injury, homelessness and massive societal dysfunction of an enemy civil population.

Civilians are only speared in small adn limited wars, and this is done specifically because if you don't do it, then you end up with a much larger war and criminal prosecution. But in a large war, when you win, no winner is ever prosecuted.

" ... Was there a rule then that said you shouldn't bomb, shouldn't kill, shouldn't burn to death 100,000 civilians in a night?  Lemay said, if we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war-criminals - and I think he's right!  He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war-criminals. ..." - The Fog Of War - Robert S. McNamara

I'm  sorry if you didn't realise your orderliness and civil compliance and participation in the community was the very precursor adn sinew of the capacity to produce global genocide potential and mass butchery, or that we only have a 'civil' sector because the military recognises that without a flock of contented 'civil' sheep, the military's brute killing power becomes far less able to create global holocausts.

This is the real meaning of what constitutes the "Free World". 

You wanted to know the truth right? Once you take that red-pill and begin to see the deeper truths you don't get to un-see them. So take it in and embrace what it is, now you know.

No, you're not required to do anything about it, and I'm never going to impose moral aspirations and plans for revolts and system change on anyone. At the moment you're the very mechanism of the destroyers of the world so what are you going to do about that now that you know the real-score, of just what just-war and national-security are really all about?

Do you see how you're greatest danger and greatest source of insecurity is the very control mechanism which educated you to serve it to create security, safety and peace?

Well, hopefully you're mature enough to deal with this now, but more than likely it'll make you feel more than a little bit afflicted. But you need to be sober and get your shit together fast, just so you can adjust to what's really been going on around you. If you don't you'll lose it and get depressed and suicide or something.

How about instead you face it directly and just relax now that you know it, and go from there? You can do anything you want about it, or nothing at all. It's your choice. Who knows, frying cities might be just your thing and you may be well-suited to ballistic missile launch duties. I won't judge you if you feel mass genocide is what makes you feel good. Or maybe you might just casually suggest to your leadership that this is not really your sought of thing and that you'd like to see this minimised some and maybe even eliminated. Again, that's entirely your business.

But understand that you are still living within a kill-or-be-killed-mode driven society, you are in an actual war, you just don't now it. And you're not supposed to notice this either. You're supposed to remain well adjusted adn relaxed via knowing only what you need to know--a strictly need to know basis--for if you ever saw how the military of you great state really worked, you may no longer be mentally malleable to it and may even resist its general level of continuous mind-fucking and poisoning the well of intellectual honesty and public discourse..

You might even begin to notice that this is all that's ever happening, whenever conversations get a bit too close to the truth, in mass-media outlets.

That is the very reason why secrecy is so treasured by govt and military. The CIA and NSA are not worried about leaking secrets so much as they can use so much massive surveillance to detect and interdict this that it is a high risk business with a strong deterrent. Mostly it works, or at least it used to work a fair bit better.

But what the govt/military/sickurity nexus is really concerned about is if the entire population ever realised the bigger-picture (the real one), of how and why civilian control systems really exist and operate, as they do.

When your civil elected President is also commander-in-chief, or you royal appointed governor general is the head of the military,  who can control a nuclear 'football' and has authority to release a nuclear holocaust, then you better realise that person is not actually a civilian, at all. They are in fact the actual head of the military and Joint Chiefs of Staff, in the US's case.

Putin likewise is not a politican, he's military power with a civil facade, though Obama arguably has the better facade. You can scoff at them, you can even speculate that their not really deserving of a nobel prize, but these are the city killers in suits, they totally outclass all prior serial killers - no contest.

The election ruse is just the mechanism to maintain an illusion of civil control of the military head, the facade. But the truth is exactly the opposite. Obama can make executive laws that ignore the constitution under military emergency powers, because military commander mass murderer is what he really is.

And so are you. You honestly think you aren't, but the Russians and Chinese see zero distinction between 'civil' and 'military' and they have stated this plainly in the past. So you're a military target and a part of the extended military apparatus. You just hadn't realised that 'civilian' is just a class of military person, who knows only what they need to know about that ... on a need to know basis ... of course.

See what you really amount to in the military planners strategic combat equations now? Do you grasp why you're now target #1 in any global war?

Just like everyone else in the military the only difference here is you don't realise your in the military, you still think you're 'out', or never gone 'in'. Ha! ... hell no, ... sorry.  You're 'in' alright, you're in the war machine, and its is so slick, so cleverly disguised, that you never explicitly knew it. How do you think they can conscript you, if you're not already 'in'? They only resort to conscription when the propaganda and mind-bending cash inducements and lies of duty, security and just-wars are not enough.

None of it is true, none of it is real, the entire thing is one facade stacked-up upon another over the centuries adn they used words and myths to hide the real nature of it. Some words are very revealing though,

Like the word, "infant-ry". That one's kind of a give-away, no? Well, it is when it's been pointed out to you otherwise no one notices the root, or the relationships to words like infanticide. Once the facades are pointed-out you can't ever un-see them, but it is far better to find out now than to find out on a battlefield just how completely mind-fucked you were. Maybe it can prevent you making some calamitous errors that you'll never forgive yourself for.

I hope so, I really do.

So yeah, I rambled quite a bit there didn't I but it was not done aimlessly, this is part of an involved set of points adn understanding we need to grasp about why things are as they are.

So I'll now go ahead and tell you why the Vietnam conventional war didn't quite produce a massive nuclear exchange, during 1961 to ~1975. The answer is particularly horrifying. Human civilisation (or is that militarisation?) was very lucky to survive this period at all. People born after ~1990 need to understand what really occurred, it is vital to see how the system really works and how frail and dangerously fallible it is.

Basically what occurred was the, "extraordinarily belligerent" General Curtis LeMay, who former US Sec-Def Robert McNamara flat-out asserted was a WWII war-criminal that had never been tried and hung, but was now running SAC, was losing support as he also lost the argument with the Joint Chiefs and Eisenhower White House (who was btw the perfect example of the fundamental total lack of distinction between military and civilian in high-office), thus LeMay lost influence and was eventually replaced by a new head of US Strategic Air Command (SAC).

Over the same period from late 1958 to late 1962, more sober minds in the US military's upper ranks (particularly in the US Army and some Navy) advanced the conceptual argument of the real possibility of lengthy but limited conventional wars with Soviets client states. Given the Korean war occurred like 4 years prior to Eisenhower's decision that conventional warfare was out now, this should maybe have been a no-brainer but senior military are often not as sharp as you might suppose. They're a curious neutered mix of an extremely bright minds combined with a diabolical lack of cognisance, where career progression is proportional to the impenetrability of that inverse relationship.

Anyhoo, this belated debate/argument occurred just in the nick of time, as it turned out, to prevent WWIII kicking-off due to the rapidly escalating Vietnam conflict. This fact is clear within the following quote regarding the nuclear strategy debate in the period from 1958 to just prior to Vietnam escalation in 1961, and then on to the even more harrowing Cuban-missile-crisis of Oct-Nov 1962.

Vietnam was also a golden opportunity for China to thank uncle round-eye for meddling in the Taiwan Strait.

"... USAF insistence that the strategic deterrent must have overriding priority met increased resistance toward the end of the decade.  The critics included not only the other military services but some agencies within the federal government, civilian commentators on military affairs, and even some officials within the Air Force. 17
 
Although General LeMay , who became Vice Chief of Staff in July 1957, continued to insist that the nation could not afford separate weapon systems and strategies for various types of conflict, General Wayland, Commander of TAC, believed the Air Force needed larger general purpose forces for limited war. Others pointed out that continental air defense required more resources.  With certain reservations, the Secretaries of State and Defense and the President continued to support the Strategic air power position.

I want to butt in here to make this one point completely clear. The above meant that the whole US political leadership and also military leadership was irrevocably, inescapably and structurally committed even at a budget, R&D, order-of-battle and military acquisition level, to not even be capable of engaging in a full-scale WWII style conventional war, against the Soviets, on an eastern European battlefield. That's what the quote amounts too. Instead, the Pentagon had deliberately equipped the US military joint services to do just one thing, in response to Soviet aggression, namely, to make an immediate, massive pre-emptive nuclear-strike, on Russian cities, and Russian nuclear offensive capabilities, at the very first sign of a Russian commitment to join in a conventional battle against NATO or another key ally (which almost happened several times during the period). There was zero alternative in way of a US response, other than total surrender after depletion and attrition of conventional capabilities. This incredible all-in on the nuclear attack doctrine only began to change significantly as Eisenhower left office, in Jan 1961, and LeMay had also finally lost sway within the minds of the majority of high-ranking US officers. It's hard to even grasp that the US was this committed to nuclear warfare, but it really was. And the frightening thing is almost no one even realises this horrific truth, today!

The US was gearing up to do something that would have made Hitler and Stalin look like complete pikers in the genocide stakes. The "Free World" and the "Arsenal of Democracy" was intending to show all of those losers what a real genocide looks like.

Anyway on with the rest of this verbatim quote ...

"However, the Army's concept, now called "flexible military response", gained wide acceptance in civilian circles. By 1960, although the budget still reflected little change, a trend toward flexible response began. Some USAF officials, including even Gen. Thomas S. Power, who had succeeded LeMay at SAC, had become concerned over the possibility that there might be limited wars in which nuclear weapons would not be used. 18"

Did you get that?

The head of SAC was suddenly "CONCERNED" that there might be some sort of a type of future war in which thermonuclear holocaust did not actually occur and therefore SAC might be completely irrelevent, instead of the global superhero and saviour of the moment ... and the US might actually have to fight. This I would suggest, given Vietnam occurred immediately after this period, and given the obvious lack of preparation for such a war, and the wild gyrations of delusional thinking within the upper military ranks, this, I would say, is the core reason why the US made all of the wrong choices, pursued fruitless tactics and action and behaved so brutally, insanely and performed abysmally, so ultimately lost, in the most spectacular and shameful of ways, after just walking on the moon-'n-stuff, to a bunch of rather scrappy rice farmers in funny little pointy hats.

That could have something to do with it.

So within mere months this change in core strategic concepts, Kennedy almost immediately kicked off the Vietnam conflict, plus the Cuban Missile crisis, as the US rapidly began to geared-up and train troops for conventional war that involved 700,000 US troops on the ground in Vietnam, instead of an automatic global genocide knee-jerk (that was itself rooted purely within the staggeringly pathetic basis of some disagreement over points of political, economic and social ideology).

Does it sound to you like these chaps had "The Right Stuff"?

The naughty commies were evil personified and the US leadership were saints of the Holy-Trinity but this Trinity was a nuclear TRIAD of joint service delivery capabilities, a super-expensive, totally wasteful insanely destructive system of global butchery. Welcome to the "Free World". And let me tell you something about that too. The US Pentagon and Rand specifically evaluated deaths and injuries in monthly, quarterly and multi year totals, and on one side were the commies, and on the other side of all these deaths and injuries graphs was the label, "The Free World". And this is no joke, they really did this, this was the lie of lies that they were telling everyone, that the great mass murderer, the invader of invaders, the butcher of butchers was really the saviour of, "The Free World".

The perversity and cognitive dissonance was clearly engineered. It was so egregiously and patently false that they engineered this lie that was so ludicrous that most of the military adn wider population, believed it was true. This is why I say even the DPRK has nothing on the US's life-long propaganda in-depth process, and the induced state of profound cultural delusion it produces is something so foul and such a travesty to observation and logic that it sent so many American soldier  who caught a glimpse of the actual truth, pretty much out of their minds.

Since Vietnam Americans, and Westerners in general have became a lot more sceptical and ware, which has helped many to cope with the still snowballing culture of failed lies and propaganda in-depth. Let me tell you the real reason why the US left Iraq, and is now leaving Afghanistan. It's really simple, and it's just one thing, and it has nothing to do with military objectives being met, it's also the very same reason why the US had to leave Vietnam.
 
 
T H E    P R O P A G A N D A    H A D    S T O P P E D    W O R K I N G
 
 
It was at a around this time that Stanley Kubrick produced his masterpiece movie, "Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb". A movie which almost but not quite captured the full-blown paranoid genocidal-suicidal insanity that thoroughly infected US Strategic Air Command at that time, and almost but not quite all of the US military and civilian leadership of the time.

Keep in mind, this lengthy polemic does not include or cover what was going on within the Russian's mind and military at the same time, because they were clearly thinking in much the same broadly idiotic and catastrophically stupid and culturally delusional and militaristically hysterical ways.

"Dimitri, look, if this report is true and that plane manages to bomb the target, ... is it... is that going to full ... is this going to set off the doomsday machine? ... Are you sure? ... Well, ... I ... I guess you're just going to have to get that plane then, Dimitri. ... Dimitri, ... I'm sorry they're jamming your radar and flying so low but they're trained to do that. You know, it's ... it's initiative! ... Look, Dimitri, you know exactly where they're going and I'm sure your entire air defense can stop a single plane! ... Listen, I mean, it's not going to help either one of us if .. if the, if the doomsday machine goes off ... now is it? ... Dom ... Dimitri, there's no point in you getting hysterical at a moment like this Dimitri! Keep your feet on the ground when you're talking Dimitri. No I'm ... I'm not ... I'm not getting... no Dimitri. I ... I'm just worried, that's all. Look, now if our air staff say it's primary target is Lapuda and it's secondary target it Bordkov, I mean it's, ... it's true Dimitri! You've got to believe it! (Turgidson nods affirmative Look) ... can I gi... Dimitri!! ... can I give you just one word of? ... can I give you just one word of advice? Dimitri? Listen, Dimitri, put everything you've got into those two sectors, and you can't miss." - Dr. Strangelove

It's without any doubt quite improbably that human civilisation survived to Feb 28th 2014, but here we are. Maybe we shed a few lies and delusions along the way and developed a tiny bit mentally, eh? Does anyone think maybe we learned something from all this?

Well look at today, we have the collective fool, in the US and European plus Russian leaderships facing-off with threats over the Crimea. And let's just point out that is a part of a country that is none of their god-damned business!

Are they all not at best annoying guests there, or at worst a not too subtle strategic death-threat? Not one of these countries has any business meddling in the Ukraine, not Russia, not NATO, not the US, and not the Russians living within Ukraine, either. Not one is a legitimate global leader. I know that, and even they know they, they are all frauds and criminals. Not one of them is deserving of any one's deference to their wishes, nor compliance with their demands. they are all a bunch of stuffed shirts.

Hey here's a crazy idea, how about all of you clowns shut-the-fuck-up, behave and mind your own business?

Think ya's can manage that?

Why is it that every few months now we have to marshal a collective voice of humanity over the internet to tell all of these irresponsible complete fucking idiots "in control", to shut-the-hell-up and stop being jerks?

Why is it that none of them are happy unless they're getting ready to destroy the world, on the basis of no clearly identifiable worthwhile reason? What the hell is that all about, huh? Won't you boneheads puhhhlleeaase shut the fuck-up and mind your own respective business?

And Ukraine, really? Please get a grip, you're broke, your politicians suck arse and your not very accomplished at democracy yet. Don't feel bad, nor are we. But do you really think the broke-ass EU and the broke-ass USSA, and the broke-ass IMF dog-'n-poney show will solve your present dilemmas, with confetti, hot air and hope?

Or that a secondary internal conflict will solve anything that you want and need solved? I see many people are using cool heads in the protesters, and this is good. The sad truth is the EU is also a police state it's just not as obvious or blunt about it. And I guarantee you, when you really need them strategically, they will not be there, they will be wringing their hands in profuse apology as they fuck right off, as quickly as they can.

And then you are sitting right on Russia's border anyway. Is it really that bad? If it is, can't you make it better?

And to the Russian guests of Ukraine, why can't you make it, Russia, better? Do you see no problem and no potential for a better Russia and a better regional neighbour?

If you are just there to create trouble you need to go home and stop trying to hijack and bully someone else's home and culture. Don't be jerks about it.

And do you plan to get over this fairly absurd Russian nationalist dingbat-ism at some point? You may love revelling in it psychologically, bit like a dog rolling in its faeces all the time, but seriously, its fucking juvenile guys. Are you really that insecure about who you are and about Russia?

You will not be permitted to change the strategic balance or territorial boundaries of Ukraine any more than Hitler was permitted to and if you can't grasp the applicably of that ill-fated parallel then you're going to make the same grotesque mistakes.

I wrote this acid-trip hystery of cold-war stupidities so that Feb 28 2014 reflects on where we are right now. Let's not start all that stupid sabre-rattling crap again, and lets not put up with our respective leadership standing jokes get away with doing it to the world.

Tell them, I mean this, tell these fools "in power", and "in control", that strategic blah-blah is not as important as maintaining sanity, and respect and treating all people as we would hope to also be treated. If that's not the outcome then what you're doing is the wrong way. Try again guys.

 

 

Cecil B DeMille, eat your heart out!

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 05:15 | 4487972 Invinciblehandaxe
Invinciblehandaxe's picture

@element

how about posting a link next time instead of raping my middle finger with the scroll wheel? now i feel abused...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 13:41 | 4489831 Element
Element's picture

come on, your middle finger loved it. :D

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:06 | 4488011 satoshi123
satoshi123's picture

Please ZH, ..if this bitch would have said Z-, A-, or Z- fucking once, this post would be gone and it poster, ... but it stands, ... fucking sick.

Where is the 100 character limit? My gawd

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:31 | 4488038 Element
Element's picture

ass bleed boot of zh but puppy still want approval with more beating   raw haw haw 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:52 | 4488058 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

AnAnonymous has taught you well ... but you are not a decent troll, yet.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 07:48 | 4488052 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Fine reading, but just to add some water to the wine, I have to tell you that it wasn't Dr. Strangelove who had the cited conversation, but president Merkin Muffley (also played by Peter Sellers). ;-)

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 13:37 | 4489814 Element
Element's picture

I was just referencing the movie title there Bear :) I downloaded the script a while back, one of the all time great moovies in my view, plus I think the absurd humor did a whole lot to assist persons in the US military to finally question what they were doing and being told to think about what they were training for and prepareing to do. Such a weird time. Hystorians will have a field-day with that era if we survive another hundred years ... and I sincerely hope Dr Stranglove is still around for them to watch and gag at the preverts. :D

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 03:06 | 4487906 Debugas
Debugas's picture

meanwhile Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukrain Arsen Avakov accused Russia of military intervention into and occupation of Crimea peninsula

http://www.rbc.ua/rus/news/politics/mvd-ukrainy-obvinilo-rf-v-vooruzhenn...

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 09:14 | 4488247 silvermail
silvermail's picture

"meanwhile Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukrain Arsen Avakov accused Russia of military intervention into and occupation of Crimea peninsula"

Today in Ukraine there is no legitimate authority and any legitimate ministers of Internal Affairs. Today in Ukraine there are only rebels, buyout force seized power in Kiev. And also in Ukraine, there are regions that have remained faithful to the Constitution, democracy and legitimate democratically elected Ukrainian President.

I repeat: The authorities in Kiev are now thugs and criminals. It's a fact and it does not depend on opinions EuroNATO of UCA . All these criminals, have committed particularly serious crime. They have committed armed coup and eventually they all will be arrested and prosecuted.

Including an accomplice of criminals that today nazyvetsya himself " Minister of Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine ." He is not the Minister. He impostor. It will be sent to jail , along with all the other members of his criminal gang.


Fri, 02/28/2014 - 03:56 | 4487940 prioris
prioris's picture

most of the so called top secret information released in disinformation. the real important stuff never sees the light of day. the cold war was an artificially created conflict. the so called communists and non communists were one and the same group.

 

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 04:06 | 4487944 Yttrium Gold Ni...
Yttrium Gold Nitrogen's picture

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Fri, 02/28/2014 - 09:55 | 4488430 esum
esum's picture

there is no DEEP STATE of consciousness running anthing... its a Brownian movement of random unmanaged events always resulting in CHAOS... with egos claiming control and leadership..oh yeah and a DEEP STATE.... you know the ones that killed JFK, RFK, MLK and Pee Wee Herman. if brains were dynamite the people in the current admin couldnt blow their hat off ... they are a bunch of cunts though and that is what a limp wrist will getcha...

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