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Ukraine Acting President Says Russia Has Invaded Ukraine, As 2000 Russian Troops, Military Jets Arrive
Here we go:
- UKRAINE ACTING PRESIDENT TURCHYNOV STARTS BRIEFING
- UKRAINE LEADER SAYS RUSSIA STARTS AGGRESSION AGAINST COUNTRY
- UKRAINE SAYS RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE UNDER GUISE OF EXERCISE
- UKRAINE LEADER SAYS RUSSIA TRYING TO PROVOKE CONFLICT
- UKRAINE LEADER SAYS RUSSIA SEEKING TO ANNEX CRIMEA
- UKRAINE'S TURCHYNOV SAYS WILL DEFEND ITS INDEPENDENCE
- UKRAINE ACTING PRESIDENT ACCUSES RUSSIA OF WORKING ON A SCENARIO LIKE BEFORE WAR WITH GEORGIA
Russia has sent "several hundred" troops into Ukraine's Crimea region, US defense officials said Friday, after Kiev called on Moscow to withdraw its forces from the peninsula.
"It looks like they’ve moved several hundred troops there (into Crimea)," a senior defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told AFP.
The comments marked the first confirmation from President Barack Obama's administration that Russia had launched an incursion into Crimea.
The Russians had not given the US government advance notice of the action or explained its intentions since the operation was launched, officials said.
But Pentagon officials stressed Washington was focused on diplomacy, and there was no serious consideration being given to any US military action.
"It is now in the realm of diplomacy," said a second defense official, who asked not to be named.
Officials also said they were not aware of any request from Ukraine for military assistance.
More from Interpretermag.com:
“Under the guise of military exercises, Russia has brought troops into the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. And not only have they seized the parliament of the Crimea, the Council of Ministers of the Crimea, they are trying to take civilian buildings under control, communications, and trying to block places where Ukrainian soldiers are based,” he said in an appeal to the nation.
“They are provoking us to military conflict. According to information from our intelligence, they are working out scenarios that are completely analogous to Abkhazia, when after provoking a conflict, they began annexation of territory,” the acting president emphasized.
'Under the guise of war games #Russia's deploying troops' '#Abkhazia scenario'-#Ukraine acting pres Turchynov #Crimea pic.twitter.com/f7CVA6ZszY
— Ukrainian Updates (@Ukroblogger) February 28, 2014
At the same time, Ukraine Pravda is reporting that Russian military planes are now landing in the Crimea.
Russian airplanes are landing in Crimea from the direction of Russia, and a column of APCs is heading from the east toward Simferopol.
There are reports of at least 5 large IL-76 planes landing in the district of the military airfield in the town of Gvardeyskoye.
Various sources are reporting that a column of 10 Russian APCs is heading from Sevastopol toward Simfereopol.
Interfax Ukraine reports that all air traffic is halted at the Belbek Airport in Sevastopol due to the seizure of the landing strip by unknown persons.
“There are about 400 people now in the Belbek airport. They have occpuied the landing strip and any movement of planes is stopped,” said a source.
And another video of the Russian APCs: considering the number of journalists standing by, it is as if they are on parade:
Finally. AFP reports:
- 2,000 RUSSIAN SOLDIERS LAND IN CRIMEA IN ARMED INVASION, KIEV OFFICIAL SAYS -- AFP
And more airplanes:
Special representative to Crimea: thirteen Russian aircraft land at base near Sevastopol with 150 people on each
— Sky News Newsdesk (@SkyNewsBreak) February 28, 2014
Some are using makeshift barricades and checkpoints to defend themselves: via Kyiv Post:
Is it starting?
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Bring it ON!!!
You suckers!
They'll not stop with Crimea..., they will go until someone stops them, and who will that be?
My guess is..., nobody!
Good work State Department..., like the rest of the clowns in D.C.
I'm hoping they don't stop until they get to the outskirts of Brussels.
One can dream.
Please don't stop on the outskirts. Go ahead and take the palace of our pedophile king. Be my guest.
Quick..., somebody give a shout out to our destroyed destroyer on the sand bar.
Iam Yue2 posted about telecom being cut off in Crimea in one of the other threads...CNN just confirmed it.
Sorry, I don't remember HTML tags, but wanted to provide a proper hat tip to Iam Yue2: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-28/more-apcs-and-helicopters-and-n...
does the crimea have an army? why no explosions and shooting and stuff?
Really. As an observer, this is like watching Russia beat up its old girlfriend, and one wonders, why didn't she just get away years ago?
Nuland must love this, it's the neo con wet dream to be fighting the ruskies again.
I remember Romney + lunatic advisors talking about Russia big enemey #1 and people laughing at them. Seems they've managed to engineer their fantasy!
Quick!... Somebody invade IRKUTSK from YAKUTSK!... I'll take SIAM...
The USSA would care more if they weren't so busy monitoring their own citizens webcams.
nah, nevermind
i don't know what to make of this. engineered by neocons? russian hegemony? but like chemtrails and fukushima, pedophile priests and politicians, gmo crops and floride drinking water... the light feels like it's getting dimmer
RT reporting that the UN security council is meeting behind closed doors concerning Ukraine.
http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/
can't see how it matters, but should be interesting to hear the U.S. and Europeans piss and whine.
"Under the guise of military exercises, Russia has brought troops into the Autonomous Republic of Crimea"
that's kind of a coincidence
because under the guise of active-shooter drills, the principal has brought police into our middle schools
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances was an international treaty signed on February, 5, 1994, in Budapest between Ukraine, USA, Russia, and Great Britain concerning nuclear disarmament of Ukraine and security assurances of her independence. According to the treaty Ukraine has abanded her nuclear arsenal to Russia, while Russia, USA, and Great Britian have promised (1) to respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within her borders; (2) to protect Ukraine from outer aggression and not to conduct aggression toward Ukraine; (3) not to put economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence her politics; (4) not to use nuclear arms against Ukraine.
If Russia invaded Crimea the US and UK have to defend Ukraine per their agreement.
BRING THE POPCORN!!! WW3!!!
Gold to skyrocket?!
did anyone ever figure out where Ukraine's gold reserves are? has to be halfway to the FED's storage facility by now. you know, for safe keeping. just like Germany's gold.
As I said, why did herr (frau) Merkel get the red carpet in London? I guess the BuBa gold is goooooooooooooooone!
also interesting to see how, with the possibility of armed hostilities breaking out in a major way, PM prices barely budge. there is manipulation, of course, and then there is total disconnect from reality.
In case of war price of gold will be set by the state. Actually it will be illegal to hold gold and not support the war effort. War=completely different ball game. Did you ever hear of audits in case of war? Also Scalia mentioned that in the case of war the law falls silent, welcome to the FEMA camp, take your gun and off you go to fight on the great plains of Ukraine. Don`t wanna go, court martial for you then sir.
The NSA SOP? Are they going to round up 15 Million of us "Gold Stackers"?
Your neighbors will do it for them. Look at the communist methods.
“they are trying to take civilian buildings under control, communications, and trying to block places where Ukrainian soldiers are based,”
“trying”… ROTFL :-D
Baghdad Bob, do you have a new gig?
Obligatory "We've always been at war with Eurasia?"
The Russians just need to tie this up before the markets open on Monday.
Y'all seriously need to settle down. It's prolly just some holiday parade in honor of some vodka deity or some other pagan ritual the commies do the time of year to try to get warm.
Can we get a singularity out of this thing?
I don't think so...My neighbors will not. I do not fear them. My neighbors are non compliant.
There is a quiet majority. Hunger changes thier attitude rapidly. My neighbors are hungry, poor, and very, very angry at the Government. They have been willing students as I teach them to construct BOMBS and IEDs. I am not living in the Beltway or New York City.
Do you know what is going on in the poor communities? The legal Gun Trade has been booming. The illegal Gun Trade has even seen much larger growth.
You are deluded.
So how is Gun Control working out?
Aside from the Dustin Beiber crowd, what's left of the United Bankers of America has little internal support or credibility.
Even though it would be stupid to poke our noses in Ukraine's business, drawing bogus lines in the sand further illustrates to the the world that the United Bankers of America speak loudly and carry a limp stick. Keep your pets out of sight. The U.B.A will want to lash out at somebody; and the citizens and pets would be likely targets. What a disgrace.
The US has no business there because the US is nothing but a business. The days of fighting for truth, justice and the American way (if they ever existed) are long gone. Let the fucking bankers fight amongst themselves. I don't particularly care which banker wins. I hope they all die in the fight, but of course they won't because they don't fight. They just count the fucking money. Long bridges, nail guns and tall buildings. Jump you fuckers.
The days of fighting for truth, justice and the American way (if they ever existed) are long gone. Let the fucking bankers fight amongst themselves.
There's the idealism and then the reality. And there will always be a battle between different ideologies etc. There was a gigantic swing to the far right in the 80s in UK & US (among many others) that has been consistent since. Always that element was there, it just had less of a voice for a while.
Doesn't mean it has to stay that way.
That wasn't carpet, it was herring.
The reserves had been shipped to a JPM vault for storage but were lost in a tragic boating accident.
The shipment was insured but unfortunately the insurance paperwork was lost in a warehouse fire a day later.
Yep, and this is where Russia shows the world that NATO, the US and the UK's security agreements mean exactly SHIT on the world stage.
Someone put it best " This is THE defining moment where the American Empire and the Pax Americana ends"
Taiwan, South Korea, Phillipines and Japan? Better pay real close attention to what's going down here.
why is that?
"cuz the Chinese are gonna stomp on you next"?
Makes you and your "supporters" sound kinda weird don't ya think?
This? ---> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassado...
yeah this is very serious but russia will respond that formally Yanukovich is still the president and that acting president Turchinov is illegitimate
and here we go into limbo of what is legitimate and what is not.
for example Kyiv already replied to Crimea parliament's decision to organize a referendum on autonomy as illegitimate act because new old constitution (that Turchinov passed through in Kyiv days ago) does not give that right to the regions anymore
It means whatever either side wants it to mean- to that side. It is a fig leaf legal justification for either side to send in more troops and escalate the situation.
Indeed. "To the wicked, everything serves as pretext."
Forgotten? Methinks not.
Ah, the unofficial closing ceremonies
Always count on you for some apropos snark...
Boris is make hasty move unable to reply, copper pipe for still most priority
So did O have a wargasm or did he shit him self? Could anyone tell?
Since Soviet Russia gave Crimea to Ukraine as a gift in 1954,
perhaps the Ukrainian Government and people should have a vote
whether to give Crimea back to Russia as a gift?
If the Ukrainian Government and people do not wish to give Crimea to Russia, then what?
NATO wanted Ukraine to join NATO?
This is why A-10 aircraft and M1 Abrams Main Battle Tanks were built.
Use it or lose it?
I don't know the numbers of vehicles on each side.
those vehicles would not matter
just count the thermo-nuclear warheads instead
A-10 and M-1 were built to fight the Crimean War II?
LOL. Don't think so.
for the fulda gap and north german plain, and danube vally. thats where the us expect the ussr to send more tanks than god
The numbers are relevant. In war, qauntity has a quality all its own. But there is something to be said for having an edge in quality, and that edge belongs almost solely to NATO.
The Russian T-90 can go toe-to-toe with the Abrams, but they don't have all that many of them. In any case, NATO would try to first assume air superiority so that they could operate their tank busting aircraft with impunity, then use the Abrams to rip up the APC.
When the numbers aren't on your side, you don't try to win a war fighting tank-to-tank, APC-to-APC, soldier-to-soldier. Instead you play a game of rock-paper-scissors.
Would that tank busting aircraft be the A-10? Didn't the SOD just say he wanted to scrap the A-10 because it was antiquated?
Indeed he did. Everything is on the sacrificial table in order to save the F-35 boondoggle. The extra gravy? We just spent billions upgrading the A-10 fleet (A-10C). No logic, no viable replacement, no nothing. Just wild swinging of the budget axe in an effort to save LockMart's bacon.
Not needed anymore? Ask the Marines and soldiers on the ground if they don't 'need' that kind of close air support.
"The Russian Foreign Ministry has passed an reply to the Ukrainian side on the movement of the Black Sea Fleet armored vehicles in Crimea, which is caused by the necessity to provide security for the Black Sea fleet’s naval deployment areas on Ukrainian territory, which happens in full accordance with basic Russian-Ukrainian agreements on the Black Sea Fleet,” a statement published on the Russian Foreign Ministry’s website reads.
The Russian side considers the events on the Autonomous Republic of Crimea a consequence of recent internal political processes in Ukraine and, in that context, sees no necessity to hold urgent bilateral consultations which were proposed by the Ukrainian side,”
http://rt.com/news/russian-vehicles-crimea-comply-agreements-227/
well that was the official response of the russian foreign affairs ministry
Yup
OBummer made a threat to Russia to stay out of the Ukraine or there would be consequences.
Putin is laughing at OBummer right now. Drinking vodka and laughing, saying go ahead fucker, take a shot at me!
I am seeing this, except for the laughing part.
So sorry, I'm too busy trying to hold South America.
Only 2 borders to defend and a gateway to taking Africa or North America. My favorite strategy! Only fools go for Asia.
Australia, always australia.
As I remember from Risk, Ukraine was a key position to hold and Kamchatcha was a nice backup
Never get involved in a land war in central Eurasia...unless you live there and can drive your troops and tracked armor where you need them in / on trucks, of course.
If you want to understand what's going on look at a map of Turkey and her neighbors and start naming the countries and how much they've been in the news. All you have to do is look at a map.
The US went "all-in" in Iraq and is going to regret it. We blew our last wad of Fed-printed cash ($3 or $4 Trillion) on a stupid Risk move and we won't be able to hold onto it. We tried to out-maneuver Iran and Russia by admitting Turkey to NATO; Turkey is blowing up. The American people are finally sick of war. We tried to overthrow Syria and got checkmated. The Saudis are on the verge of changing sides. The House of Saud is falling apart and looking for a new deal.
You win a global conflict by making it impossible for your opponent to field an army to oppose you. We did that to ourselves, or rather DC did it to us. Out of money, army exhausted, people disgusted, hostile toward "leadership".
Fuck you Paul Wofowitz, you too Cheney / Kristol. Can you imagine the hubris required to name an organization "Project for a New American Century"? The fucking thousand year Reich.
....and for so many 'Mericuns this dawning of realization is only just starting LOL. How did it ever become an empire in the first place? Oh yeah, it waited until everyone else killed themselves off and filled the void. What now?
It's all been a slow-motion train wreck so far, and it could continue that way. There was no single moment when Rome fell, was there? Or the British Empire. And we won't necessarily have a full-on knock-down-drag-out military confrontation, either, though we certainly could and the odds seem to be growing.
The sign will be the shrinking of American military presence abroad.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-to-keep-11-aircraft-carriers/
AP January 22, 2012, 12:20 AM U.S. to keep 11 aircraft carriers
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130804/DEFREG02/308040012/A-US-Navy...
Aug. 4, 2013
A US Navy With Only 8 Carriers? The Drastic Consequences of Hagel's Fleet OptionsRome shed provinces as the empire weakened. The sackings at the end were more of a formality. Britain and Spain collapsed after prolonged war exhaustion, and in Spain's case, French invasion. Both still had extensive colonial possessions but were hopelessly ruined. America could go either route.
It's a new american century alright. Just not the one that most envisioned.
Russia "red dawns" Crimea and we are having teleconferences about a fucking website and pimping out a metrosexual hot chocolate drinker.
Can I just say for the record we are in fact, FUCKED.
pods
YES YOU CAN!
C'mon! Let's jog around the WH and make a you tube video!
Let's MOVE!
Drink up.
CNN Wolf Blitzer is interviewing John McCain live right now...with a headline
BREAKING NEWS
MCCAIN: PUTIN DOESN'T RESPECT OBAMA
You can't make this shit up.
@SWR
The reason why the US is in disarray and its conquests have failed is one specific reason.
The propaganda stopped working.
People noticed the yawning gulf between fact and fiction.
They noticed there was a lot more fiction than fact these days.
If the system was not dependent on fiction and endless propaganda in-depth then this general demoralization would not have occurred.
Scripted mass-media and White House liars and cultureal myths, etc., are the major cause.
Early WWII MSM propagandists knew that their fiction content must not be mixed with fact more than a maximum of about 10% of total content or else people noticed the fiction and the propaganda gradually lost effect, then stop working, then its effect went into reverse, it disgusted people until they no longer cared.
Once it stops working there is no quick fix, it usually takes decades or else major political and social changes.
The problem ina nutshell is that at the same time the MSM and politicos pushed the envelope of fiction content levels, the ability to detect the fictional official content, also increased.
I would suggest to you that this is an increasing feature of the western world. Lies are poison to morale, and truth is more desirable as a result, thus propaganda has lost traction.
But simultaneously direct coercion is being resisted all the more. The loss of trust coincides with police state tactics and thugs in Darth Vader outfits spying and searching without warrant.
The demoralization, disenfranchising and fractionating is so deep due to all that obnoxious and intrusive state activity.
OK, no one's overrunning Capital Hill or taking the White House by storm, but this is only because no one really believes those institutions matter or are worth the effort anymore.
They also are not responding to State control anymore. The system is now so demoralized and all due to the state's own behavior and lies, that the system is in serious trouble, even though the people are not actually revolting.
They didn't revolt during the Soviet Union's collapse either, they just became deeply demoralized, defeated and unresponsive to a scerotic rotten lying broken and broke system, where the propaganda did not work any more, and they gave up on it, and let it all go to hell.
Sound familiar?
oh ... and they finally pulled out of Afghanistan.
Yes it sounds familiar. I'm the guy who starts conversations with people in the check out line. People DO get it, and they're pissed.
Well, by God I think its high time for President Redline to issue another indecisive statement about watching events very carefully and being kept up to date by his allies in the region on an hourly basis!
So the EU can get at least one more nights rest.
Before they capitulate ;-)
What would you have him do?
He is expected to make a statement...
I agree that for the most part it is remarkably content free...
Turning only slightly serious for a moment, I would prefer him say the least amount of words possible and especially do nothing. He has the uncanny ability to locate an issue ANYWHERE (foreign or domestic) and somehow turn it into a full blown crisis. At any moment of tension it is he, upon hearing the screams coming from the burning building, can be counted on to rush in with a five gallon can of gasoline.
This issue is between EU technocratic snobs, the Ukrainian people & Russian oligarchs. Its not our burning building.
Perhaps the blue helmeted Bangladeshi's should rush in and kick everyones ass back into their collective corners, that would certainly make flat earth NWO-types everywhere sit up take notice and smile with delight at their new found power ;-)
+ 100 my friend and very well put
Spot on Element. That should be required reading by all the politicians. Especially those with their hands on the buttons
"The propaganda stopped working."
It's amazing what losing a bunch of guerrilla wars will do to an empire. Vietnam, Lebanon, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan make it hard to bang the wardrum convincingly, while the ensuing economic problems affect those who remain oblivious to the wars.
"The fucking thousand year Jewish Reich". There, fixed it for ya
Go fuck yourself.
Awww... how sweet! Ya big Jewish ape.
Poor Hollywood is going to take a hit...poor George Clooney, Madonna, I am crying right now....so sad...and what about Jon Stewart (Leibewitz) and funny/haha American "news"....oh I miss the old days. Poor Bernanke...all the lies...and it comes down to this, a successful winter Olympics and now a rolled back 5000 $million wasted debacle rolling a Country of wheatfields....
Ioulya Timochenko former name : "Abramovitch" ...
Wolfowitz, Cheney, Kristol (and all the others)? Really? You're missing the big one.
Fuck you, Henry Kissinger.
There's your common thread; your prime mover.
Wolfowitz, Cheney, Kristol (and all the others)?
And Mr. PNAC himself, Robert Kagan, husband of V Nuland.
Make that Nudelman. Nuland is her crypto name, makes it easier to fleece the goyim. Bitch is a liar and a snake from the git-go. Apologies to snakes.
F*cking piece of shit says she blew 5 billion on this project- - how 'bout that shit? That's bigger than any Ukrainian "aid" package being talked about.
Ya see what happens when you let Islamic nutcases run your foreign policy?
You're right, except that the filthy cunt isnt an islamist nutcase, shes a zionist nutcase
Outstanding fucking post!!!
It's going to be a New American Century alright... and China is just licking it's chops and waitng quietly in the wings...
WE ARE FUCKED
YOU! to the head of the class.
+reminders
Oh, and FUCK YOU PNAC!!!
I have never read a more succinct analysis of the status quo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw
Re Risk... you are correct. Then Kramer ticked off the Ukrainian guy on the subway and the gameboard went flying.
Way beyond Risk, how 'bout the real game being played here in its latter-day iteration: control of Eurasia is at the very heart of Harold Mackinder's Great Game theory...
The “Great Game”: Eurasia and the History of WarFrom your link:
"It was on the eve of the First World War that radical changes were made to the banking system in the U.S. and on the eve of the Second World War that otherwise unpopular economic reforms were implemented in Britain. War allows otherwise unpopular measures to be accepted by domestic populations or gives them stealthy means for execution."
Amazing, right? Be sure to click both, they're great pieces, very informative and enlightening.
Must hold the middle east to win.
Fuck it, I'm gonna hide in Indonesia.
They've managed to post a direct strategic threat to Russia, same as we'd feel in our backyard.
Russia will not allow NATO missiles etc in Ukraine any more than JFK would in Cuba.
You can tell by our adminstration's well articulated response to this major event that we were well prepared to deal with the situation and that everything is under control.....bwaahhaahhaahhaahhhaahhaa!
If by "prepared" you mean gelded Executive Branch, then, yes.
Spot on.
John Catsup Kerry surrenderd 42 years ago to Russia and China...laying the goundwork for today's modern diplomacy and 'strength' in commentary. It is all blather. Already surrenderd many years ago...there will be no war.
Re read your history.The Cuban nuke deployment, was a response to the US deploying
nukes in eastern Turkey.The USSR ONLY backed down on Cuba AFTER JFK backed down
on Turkey. The USSR was fully prepared to go the whole Monty until then.
Nuland obviously learnt the American public school version of those events.
And Ernesto "Che" Guevara wanted to actually nuke New York City. I do respect Fidel for ratting him out to the cia to kill.
If only John Korn could un-reset that button Hillary sent over to Putin, he might just win a nobel peace prize.
If Che Guevara was sucessful the plot would have been blamed on Cuba and the Soviets. (The Soviets had the Nukes.)
Castro did not act out of benevolence but out of self preservation. Don't they all? What is so damned "respectable" about that?
They are ALL PUKES...including ours..
Tall Tom
I realize Castro acted only out of self preservation. Che Guevara was a psychopath who murdered all sorts of his own countrymen, the comment was a weak attempt at humor.
I remember those days, hiding under a school desk and all that. My daddy was a World War 2 navigator on a B-29 and was recalled to duty at Goldsboro NC, which had B-52s with Nuclear weapons and only a couple of hours from Cuba. Too many people are unaware of real history where most so called national leaders are pukes, and except for the grace of God we would all be toast by now.
By the way, what sort of Acid did you take when teaching that class you spoke of? Was it some of the Ken Kesey variety? Just interested.
Fuck you. I didn't come here to write a book, just make a brief observation.
Popped your bubble on JFK ,and Camelot ?
You didn't understand just how far Russia(USSR) would go to protect against
a US first strike capability.The state dept should have known better as well.
Hubris can be fatal.
Do you even read?
JFK, Camelot... fuck, you must have a lifetime subscription to Time or Newsweek.
Clearly you're edumacated.
I think The Powers That Be, that wish to rule the world,
may be regretting their fraudulent installation of fraud Obama,
If fraud Obama is unwilling to go to war for Ukraine.
US House Republicans should vote for a new Speaker, a TEA party Republican, and
US Senate should vote for a TEA party Republican leader of the Senate,
and then Impeach and Convict and Remove both fraud Obama and VP Biden simultaneously.
Then a TEA party Speaker becomes President.
Just a wild fantasy?
don't "the powers that be" imply they already rule the world?
not yet they way that they really want to run it. now they are in shadows, they want to do it openly. sadly (for them), they will miss it 'by that much'.
Fantasy?, Its a Great Idea!....to make CSPAN Popcorn Worthy
"The USSR was fully prepared to go the whole Monty until then."
Who? The generals? Same in the US. Kennedy went backdoor with Kruschev to avert nuke war.
There is no way USSR had strategic superiority in '62.
I see 33 up votes for your completely ignorant statement. Fucking amazing.
@ Winston
Not quite, you missed a key aspect in the dynamic.
Krushchev did not know that that US already had at least two, probably three thermonuclear-armed nuclear submarines on operational patrol off the Soviet coast, during the Cuban missile crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Halibut_%28SSGN-587%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulus_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Patrick_Henry_%28SSBN-599%29
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/cold-war-asw.html
If the Russians had tried to take out the Titans, and succeeded, then many key Russian air bases and ports have been shattered, within the hour, by the US subs. So by the time the Titans were removed they were already obsolete tech that was unreliable and more or less irrelevant, and due for withdrawal or replacement anyway.
Thus in reality Kennedy knew he was giving nothing away by agreeing to remove the Titans, and he knew the soviets were not gaining a strategic advantage as the US subs had the drop on the Soviets all along, and they Soviets still didn't know they were there.
Likewise Kennedy did not know the Russians already had placed all the warheads on their missiles in Cuba. The US thought their blockade had prevented warhead delivery, but it had not.
Thus both sides secretly thought that they had the drop on the other side, though in fact the US did have the overall rapid strike advantage in numbers, and from multiple axis.
This was such a dangerous situation that few people know how lucky civilisation was to survive 1962. If either one had decided to attack, or just made a mistake, then all sides would have been smashed within the hour and mostly wiped-out within 24 to 48 hours.
Then the reactors would have popped as well.
Also, the Soviets and US understood the US had a strategic advantage at that time.
Who gave you the idea that Nato was on the verge of placing anything in Ukraine? Hell, the people there revolted a week ago and you're already predicting Nato make a strategic cold war move? What would that help at this juncture?
What has been the pattern since the collapse of the Soviet Union?
Geezus.
Yes, despite the solemn promises given to the contrary by Daddy Bush to Gorby.
if i recall right it was Rassmussen who just days ago said accepting Ukrain into NATO is not in the high priorities list at the moment...
Why wouldn't they? Ukraine is the stepping stone to Russia, they have LNG pipelines, they're is ripe for strip mining by the IMF, and the U.S. is adding more than 200 bases worldwide.
But I want to hear your story. Why do you think that NATO won't deploy a base in Ukraine other than because the country is destabilized (as if that ever stopped us from deploying bases before)?
NATO and EU are two completely different groups. Putting Ukraine into the EU doesn't automatically make it a NATO partner. Turkey is a NATO partner and is never going to be allowed into the EU.
Don't fall for the tricks of the Russians.
Yeah, no way would the crazy neocons would ever try to park ABM's on Russia's border to, you know, to knock down all those Iranian ICBM's that don't exist. Anyone who'd think that is just plain nuts.
"We’ll regain our status as a nuclear power and that’ll change the conversation. Ukraine has all the technological means needed to create a nuclear arsenal – which would take us about three to six months,” Svoboda party MP Mikhail Golovko said.
JC, you need to be aware her real surname is Nudelman and the foul pig is married to one of the hideous Kagan's. This is who nitwit bankster pet Obama thought would make a good public serpent. Ok, finally, he got something right...
The only reason Putin's Russia would be our enemy is because the ZOG-sters are making it so. The shit they just pulled in the The Ukraine is a case in point. Vlad will have the last laugh, AGAIN. Not much of a prognostication when you consider the recent scorecard and what and who he's up against- - a Ship of Fools.
Exactly James_Cole...
Goodness me, the zionists and neo-con apologists are out in force tonight by voting your post down.
Anyway, thankfully more people can see through it here, by almost 4:1.
I'm sorry, there seems to be some disconnect between the nation of the Ukraine's reality and yours. Which nation just sent its troops into another nation after its revolution, under the guise of a "military exercise" again?
Are you saying Putin is a zionist or a neo-con or what?...lol.
"Really. As an observer, this is like watching Russia beat up its old girlfriend, and one wonders, why didn't she just get away years ago?"
Russia is ready to let go of Ukraine. But for start, Russia would like to bring back their rightful property:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpDyt6PlCJs
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/3948302/post315203230/
My irony was set to 11. It went over the more rabid heads, I mean, how can the Ukraine escape Russia?
like i said, there is no real Ukrainian army. and just like i said, this is all going down exactly after the Olympics. there won't be any war because there is no one to fight, save for the EU/USSA supported neo-nazi thugs; Putin will clean this up right quick.
i agree with this...but there is an insurgency...a "militant wing" if you will...that overthrew the thieving clown who was in charge the last time.
I highly doubt Russia will want him in charge once they make the push towards Kiev...something that indeed would be a precipitous event...and something Russia is crazy enough to do I might add.
In other words Russia might be able to walk on in here...but they might not be able to walk on out.
russia will reinstate this prez u call a "thieving clown". there are all thieving clowns by degree, but these 'insurgents' as you call them are radically worse and couldnt sustain anything approaching a real gov (until EU/USSA moves in for kill)......\
remember once there was Cypress'd and now they're trying for Ukraine'd...
You're right. There's no Ukrainian army to stop the Russians.
Russia is playing bully heavy weight champion again, just like everywhere else. Maybe they will starve the Ukrainians, maybe they'll send them to Gulag after the Russian soldiers raped the women. Glad I never had to live under Russian occupation but feeling sorry for everyone who had to endure the Russian plague.
we're just living under the DC plague (not limited to NSA, demz, repubz, DoInJ, etc etc)...
That's different and you know it. Speak with any Eastern European and ask if they would have preferred to be liberated and occupied by Americans after '45 given the choice. Why do you think thousands RAN away from the Russians and would rather die running or swimming than living under Stalin's Russia? That's beside the point though.
Sewastopol was never in danger of being lost in a Ukrainian revolution. So why the Russian invasion of Crimea? I tell you why. Putin's Russia doesn't trust anybody they do not control. Nothing has changed. Putin acts like Stalin.
this is bigger conversation and speaking with certain individuals of late, the general perspectives have shifted re: Russia/US/EU...but i dont have time to get into here right now....thx for responses tho....
I will stay tuned. ZH is good community to learn from others. Modern day rumor mill.
you are right about eastern europeans. we will never forget the soviet union and that russia is its legitimate successor.
furthermore, russia is a bully but this time western intelligence induced coup left putin no choice than to react with force. putin is in a predicament. obama might be an oblivious fool, but neocons driven agenda is playing out perfectly.
your previous down votes just prove the prevailing mancrush many ZH have on putin, which is nothing else than craving for a leader(on ZH????). they think because their government is an oppressor, it's enemies are not. they wouldn't last a day in russia.
Layman, I must say that I agree with you about the apparent prevailing pro-Putin sentiment here on ZH, which I find mysterious and disheartening. The man is simply a thug, as Russian leadership in general has been for centuries. I also tend to disbelieve and dismiss the characterizations of anti-Russian (or at least anti-Putin) Ukrainians as "fascists". Are ZHers falling for the same kind of mindless propaganda that they rightly accuse the average American and European sheeple of falling for as well?
None of this is to implicitly or explicitly support the pro-EU sentiment in Ukraine, either, as I see the EU as just another imperialistic, expansionistic Evil Empire. But is there or can there not be some kind of "third way" between supporting pro-Putin/pro-Russian authoritarianism and supporting pro-EU authoritarianism? It seems like most of the discussion, here and elsewhere, falls into this same false and self-defeating dichotomy.
You aren't wrong akak, but I think too many people, perhaps yourself as well, mistake neutral objective observational commentary on zh for being 'pro' someone, and therefore anti some other side.
As I see it the main aim here of Putin's is due to the military power-vacuum within Ukraine, not just the political and legal vacuum.
As I see it Russia is possibly not aiming to annex Crimea, at this point, I could be wrong, but I doubt they would, as this really would invite a conflict. But its to deter Western powers from deploying military force or delivery weapons within Ukraine.
In other words, if they do, there will be as much as a land, sea and air battle to destroy any such force or weaponry.
Once this is understood, that Russia will not tolerate a Western military intervention and the usual games with insurgents, and has positioned itself to make sure this can't succeed, then things can begin to take their political and legal course.
Fair bit of supposition there, but there it is, a pretty nasty situation. I'd really like to hear a bit more about what Lavrov has to say about the Russian actions.
Last, your usual anti-stateism outlook seems to be, correct me if I'm wrong here, leaning towards siding with a state power in this?
your supposition makes sense though it would be overestimation from putin to expect western military initiative.
That's none of Russia's business! Sewastopol could defend itself. Ukraine has no army to speak of as we've heard admit the Russian guys.
The UN could easily deploy an international army to assist with the potential fallout from a power vacuum. Putin could have very well used his leverage at the UN and used back channels to constructively work towards an international solution.
Putin is Stalin's illegitimate bastard son and doesn't give a rats ass about the international community. Sochi was a bullshit show and should have never happened. I'm so sick and disgusted by all this.
you are correct about thugs. russian political-power system is not a western puppet theater lead by some éminence grise. it was founded on real power/terror/deceit, and not on the rule of law, since the vikings called Rus' started to dominate russia(hence the name). it is stilled governed largely in the same fashion.
there's an option for independent ukraine but neither eu/usa nor russia is in favor of it due to numerous reasons all which are rooted in their neocolonial policies.
those Eastern Europeans were supporters of the Nazi carnage & mass murder in Russia. Frankly they deserved everything they got from the Red Army. Stalin was quite soft on them really.
yeah sure, only nazis were the bad guys! death camps in siberia(think alaska) were quite a vacation for the eastern europeans. so much so only half came back. i guess they were also responsible for the mass murder in russia and stalin had nothing to do with it.
you are right about stalin being soft with EErs. he was more murderous with people close to him, so russians suffered the most though he was georgian. this didn't stop russians from worshiping him. talk about brainwashing. or who deserved what
from your name and from the implicit love for stalin, i assume you are russian. hereby i have to give credit to communist-russian propaganda.
maybe i have my history wrong here but Yanakovich WAS the President of Ukraine...not "still is."
He couldn't even get across his own border when he fled (for the second time.)
Apparently the papers they through in the river when they fled have revealed a bunch of Swiss bank accounts which have now been frozen.
Sounds like his son is in deep shit too.
I agree "nobody wants a US intervention here" because "everyone has their money hiding in Switzerland" (or some facisimile thereof) "right now."
And yes...that is an "insurgency"...they overthrew the clown in charge and put in their man (or is "it" a woman?)
This is a sovereign nation.
Under what right is Russia "invading" again?
Don't tell me it's under some right to "Yanokovich Restoration."
That doesn't sound like a "path to peace" to me.
Yanu parked millions on Swiss bank accounts which are FROZEN. Legitimate savings from a simple public servant's pay, I'm sure.
If Yanukovitch stole anything, it was from the IMF and Gazprom just like his predessor and the one before that. I'm sure the puppet government in Kiev is planning to do the same thing
Aren't the Tatar's from the Crimea busy whipping those gals in Pussy Riot or was that the Cossacks?
Poor Putin and the Russians - they have so many f**kwits as neighbors plus the slimy Zio-EU-USSA-IMF-Saudi scum to deal with.
This makes me appreciate Canada more and Mexico not much at all.
Girlie men fight Pussy Riot.
walkure: "Girlie men fight Pussy Riot."
While real men welcome righteous pussy.
that pussy riot crap pretty pathetic propaganda. can only guess that its directed to mindless college age types. i've seen high school plays with better acting.
Funded by Soros.
Just more silly Yid stuff
Get it straight: They are "Russian PEACEKEEPERS, waiting for UN blue helmets".
"They are there to protect Ukraine's sovereignty (from foreign Mercs and Terrorists), and to provide security from Domestic Terrorists and thugs."
Spread the word. ;-)
p.s.
Q: Who’s the first casualty of financial and military wars?
A: Veritas. Quod verum sit primum belli casus. (Truth. Truth is the first casualty of war.)