Russia vs Ukraine: The Infographic

Tyler Durden's picture

Curious how Ukraine, which with its population of 44 million and size of 603,628 square km makes it the largest single country entirely in Europe, stacks up against Russia? The following infographic should answer some questions regarding the (im)balance of power.

And as a follow up, here is a map showing the location of the various sites of the Russian Navy in the Crimea. These will be the first sites to see a surge in Russian troop presence.

H/t @MrHalimi, @seanrussiablog

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aint no fortunate son's picture

I think it's time for Holder to send another snotty letter to the Kremlin - that'll give 'em what-for.

onewayticket2's picture

Mr. Putin,  if you want domain over 44MM people, we have 49MM on foodstamps....and here's the kicker....they all have their own pre paid cellphone!

Anusocracy's picture

It's the US that wants control over them.

The US was the aggressor during the Cold War and it hasn't stopped.

johnQpublic's picture

honestly stunned the population of russia is not much larger

didnt stalin kill like 30 million?

plus population growth...what as the population low at that point?

would they like 30 million mexicans?

they have much more room for them than we do

Not Too Important's picture

A nation full of hard-core alcoholics tends to have a high rate of birth defects and miscarriages. Russia isn't keeping up with the demographic pace better than anyone else. They're just doing a better job at keeping the minorities out, not too far removed from Japan's policies.

Putin will keep Crimea. The rest there's no reason to pay for. Let G-S take it over and pay for their debt services while they all starve like Greece.

And no one has said whether Russia is going to get paid for the oil and gas that has already been transshipped. Would you want to owe Putin tens - if not hundreds - of millions of dollars?

We may end up in a situation where the West starts pumping billions into Ukraine simply to pay the Russians for their energy. Putin's no fool.

gmrpeabody's picture

Putin won't settle for Crimea..., he will not leave until he has secured the whole of the country, at least politically. Got to protect those gas lines, afterall.

Anusocracy's picture

And the US is only there out of the kindness of their hearts?

homme's picture

They hate us for our generosity.

Pegasus Muse's picture

Paul Craig Roberts talks the turmoil in Ukraine and who is behind it. One of his best interviews imho.

SWRichmond's picture

sitting here watching an MSNBC program called UP.  its a bunch of smug self-important young people who don't know s*** about foreign policy, least of all Russia.  

if this is the kind of advice Obama's getting from a group of people like this it's no wonder we're doing as badly as we are.  Putin has been playing international politics longer than these people have been alive.  these people have a few years experience on the periphery of international politics and that is all but that seems to qualify them to be on TV telling people what should be done here.  

this has always been a hallmark of Russian international politics.  They send people to do this kind of work who have decades or lifetimes of experience unlike the United States which changes regimes every few years and continues to bring in inexperienced amateurs to deal with foreign nations.  Our amateurs  are usually able to get away with it because of the power of the American military power behind them, a power which is now on the wane by all measures.

you can see the result.

overmedicatedundersexed's picture

sw, we see results and have seen them for decades, should the american citizen support the DC cabal, our secrets agencies  and sadly the military? or have you not noticed the destruction of our rights and our true status as tax units?? for me the USA of DC has become the enemy, and a breakup of our nation may be the only out. the corrupt can not make the changes to our .gov that have changed our free country into nothing more than a  concentration camp without the ovens (so far))..

SWRichmond's picture

yes, don't think my post is suggesting we should be the world's tough guy.  I am ready for some other nation to host the reserve currency and deal with the consequences of that.  It will get worse for some time afterwards, though.  As we have seen thus far, the cronies will hang on to their power and position as long as they can even in the face of a crumble or collapse.  There might be a rebirth of American liberty, but it ain't coming soon.  The guns are all being turned inward in a last ditch effort to maintain the plantation.  That much is obvious.

August's picture

Ah, the Putin-is-Hitler meme.  It's got legs, and we'll be seeing a lot. Seeing it all the way to final victory!

Zero Point's picture

Hitler was a murderous dictator.

Putin is a mafia Don.

Big difference.

Mostly in that dictators at least pay lip service to ideology.

Putin couldn't give two fucks.

spacewiz's picture

Pipelines might not be as important as many thing with Nord Stream being online now:

Not Too Important's picture

Update: "Russia's state gas company Gazprom estimates Ukraine's outstanding gas debt at $1.55 billion for 2013 and gas deliveries so far this year. This of course, was Russia's trump card from the very beginning."


kaiserhoff's picture

They mobilized their military to collect an IOU?

Not Too Important's picture

That's how we all roll, dog. Smedley Butler said something about that. Hmm. Something about a US coup, too . . .

Stuck on Zero's picture

The Ukraine produces something they neglected in the infographic.  Food.  Lots of grains that Russia really would like to get ahold of.


Sabibaby's picture

I bet the EU would like it also.

daedon's picture

The EU would like to print up some funny money and exchange it for the Ukraine's obsolete unimportant "remnant of the past" yellow metal.

acetinker's picture

I'm with you, no sense in Russia holding western Ukraine.  Crimea is another matter altogether, as it should be.

I can see logic in Putin's imperialistic adventures.  I see America lashing out like a fat, but strong blindman, having not been provoked.

What I don't see is a happy ending, for anyone.

Independent's picture

A good post thought I would share it to show that there is no love to be had for the Neo Nazi West

I'm from Sevastopol, was born there and lived there for the most part of my life. I couldn't speak or even understand Ukrainian till I was about 17 years old, we never learned it in school, the TV was both in Russian and Ukrainian and I, as well as the others, watched russian-speaking channels. Western and Eastern Ukraines were apart for about 700 years and fought multiple wars with each other, First and Second World Wars including. I understand you, westerners, support new-born Ukrainian democracy but what you don't understand is that this new Ukraine is actually exclusively Western Ukraine. We speak Russian in the South-East, they speak Ukrainian. They are of absolutely different culture. What's more, they hate Russia which is our Motherland. We fought for it in the Second World War and our cities were burned to the ground, millions died. They fought for the Nazis, for what they thought was civilization and Europe. And now they are the same. What's more, they are fanatics, they want their Ukraine so much that they'll willingly sign the association with EU that will bring extreme poverty abd degradation as it already did with Bosnia and Herzegovina, Baltic states, Romania, Bulgaria and to a lesser extent Poland, Hungary, etc. Well, we are tired of being poor and humiliated. We are Russians and we want home.
I'm also half-jewish. My jewish grandfather fought in Sevastopol. He was an officer in the Black Sea fleet. He knew he wouldn't survive if captured. And he wanted to spend his last bullet on the nazi. So, he always carried a capsule od cyanide with him to take his own life when the last bullet has been used. He survived but the majority of his family was murdered by nazis. When they came here, the firsy thing they did was they made all the jews gather at the stadium and then murdered them all, women and children included. Every single one.
When you think of Ukraine, think of the wetern ukrainians willingly and enthusiastically helping the nazis in their atrocities. Tatars did the same. They hunted partisans and jews and killed them or gave away to the nazis.
They still hate Russia and russians thinking of them as barbarians and long for "civilized" EU. Well, farewell. They'll find only more poverty and serfdom.
I've written this lengthy post because I've been to the USA and respect ordinary americans for their love of freedom, their morals and industry. But the West doesn't always understand what's going on here.

Zeroexperience2010's picture

Thank you for taking the time to write! Your perspective is interesting!

gmrpeabody's picture


We don't understand a great deal about history and how the world works...

(FYI-Stalin wasn't much better than Hitler)

Now we are led by clowns. Nuff said...

sun tzu's picture

Stalin wasn't Russian nor Ukranian. He was a Georgian.

akak's picture

See, it just goes to prove you can't trust those damned Southerners.

akak's picture

I find your glaring blind spot towards the historical Russian arrogance and animosity towards Ukraine, and Russian atrocities towards Ukrainians, most revealing.  You most conveniently fail to remember the Holodomor of the 1930s, in which millions of Ukrainians were purposely starved by Stalin in order to break their spirit and will to resist communism and Sovietization.

Do you ever stop to ask yourself why so many (desperate) Ukrainians turned towards the despised Nazis as 'liberators'?  It was solely because they were already being EXTERMINATED by the Russian Communists!

Honestly, the pro-Putin, pro-Russian-authoritarianism streak leaking into the comments here on ZH is really making me sick already.  Is it due to paid pro-Russian trolls?  I am really starting to wonder just what the fuck is happening here.

Not Too Important's picture

We want it ALL to go away, akak. And we all know it isn't going to happen.

I don't think anyone is taking sides, as much as everyone is sick of these centuries of evil imposing death and destruction on the innocent. The tide just shifts from decade to decade.

Well, there are some here who get paid to write . . .

gmrpeabody's picture

Sometimes it is more important what we do and say today or tomorrow, than what we did or said last year, or even last week.

KickIce's picture

I don't think we're so much pro Putin as anti Rothchild/Federal Reserve and our politicians complacency in their NWO agenda.

Jugdish's picture

Hey dont blame me I voted for Obama

MeMongo's picture

Indeed akak! Let's not forget the great General Patton. "I'm proud to fight here beside you, now let's cut the guts out of those krauts and get the hell to Berlin" George S Patton. And let's not forget also what he thought of that squinty eyed Stalin!

Volkodav's picture

Ignorant post.

Patton changed his mind later...

Blame Crash's picture

It was the Russians who did the large majority of the "kraut" killing but the American propaganda claims that it was their victory. Go ahead and take your general patton diatribe and shove him up your arse.

Flakmeister's picture

Patton was  the American Rommel and their best general at the operational level...

The guy you should have issues with was Bradley who rose above Patton to become his CO...

logicalman's picture

Both 'sides' are wrong.

Those controlling large groups of convenient, brainwashed idiot thugs think they have the right to tell others what to do.

This is just a battle between two such groups.

As in another post, this is why anarchism is the only hope for a decent world.

akak's picture

Logicalman, I agree with you 100%.  There are no "good guys" in this conflict, except for those Ukrainians who wish to live neither under the thumb of Putin and his Russian/NeoSoviet revanchism, nor within the smothering embrace of the EU and/or its NATO handmaiden.  But it is sad how few are those particular voices in this conflict and in this debate.

Element's picture


I understand your disappointment. Here is a disturbing video of the nature of a complete lack of empathy and absence of love in the animal 'nature'. Selco put this up on SHTF recently to demonstrate a point, so a warning to the squeamish, this is beyond brutal.

When I watch that I see the absence of basic empathy and love. Now most humans would never allow that, or do something like that, though some would, and do. If you ever saw the wild 'Elsa' the lioness from the movie "Born Free", you'd know that what that Baboon was doing within the video is not the way it has to be, nor the way that it naturally is, with many animals. If it was then Elsa would not have clearly totally loved some humans, as companions, rather than as convenient dinner on legs.

We know that animals do have this capacity for empathy and love as we see it in dogs and other pets. But I've also seen a pit-bull attack and slowly kill a man. The genetic strain clearly played a role, humans had selectively bred the pit-bull with just that sort of focused vicious aggressive quality. We deliberately caused and encouraged that breed to express that brutal behavior. We 'domesticated' it to do that.

States and their armies take young socialized humans and culturally 'domesticate' them towards controlled aggression and murderous actions, but this is OK as this never creates disastrous impacts after they're discharged. (/extreme sarc)

So the disturbance this produces is not normal, in animals, or in the human animal, and it's part of our job to figure out what makes for that difference in us and in others, and what sort of person we want to be, and the sort of world we want to be in. We do have the capacity to at least effect and affect this difference between us and that baboon's actions.

Humans are different, other animals have some of these same capacities, but humans have a deep capacity to bring into this world, mercy, empathy, compassion and 'Love'. Both between humans and between animals. This is something that we and we alone are best capable of doing, so that the sort of unnecessary wonton horror that is seen within that video above does not occur between humans, or between animals, where it's possible to make that difference.

Human responses do have this ability to drain the swamp of 'evils'.

Our 'Religions', in their purest form (not the fiendish degenerate crap they usually turn into) tell us these very same things, that we can create a world of love. Religion added nothing that did not already pre-exist as a integral part of us, they only ever pointed our attention to the innate capacity we already had. This is why they said a 'holy-spirit' was within you that God's 'Love' was everywhere, etc. That 'Love' (for want of a better word) is a feature of physical existence itself as is 'mind', as is this conscious 'intelligence' that can make such 'Love' a normal and natural state, expressed within our world, and not a limited peculiarity. We don't have to be starry-eyed naive romantics to realize this, that we can express that, instead, within our world, in 2014.

Even wild lions filmed taking down zebras, commonly all wait for the one on the throat to block the windpipe and kill it before they begin to rip it's belly open. So on some level even intelligent plains predators recognize that although they must eat zebra, pin it down and kill it first, as quickly as possible, which both reduces its suffering and also prevents it's getting away. Maybe not all lions are so merciful to prey, but we know that many of them do wait until it's dead before they start to rip it apart. Even if that example is deemed not all that compelling, we do see endless acts of amazing compassion, throughout all of the 'animal' world (there are plenty of videos of this too), and even between entirely different species.

Empathy is real. Compassion is real. Mercy is real. The attempt to deny that these do in some way 'exist', is what's apparently  not consistent with observation of our world, and of human and animal behavior. We do these things, they emerge naturally from humans, and also from animals. This is a fact. We could lump all that together under 'Love', and point out that it exists in the world, independently, because it is in fact in some unfathomable way, a part of the fabric of infinity itself, that produced us, and what we can do.

So if brutality comes our way, we can always maintain our beings, and make this difference in the world so that us, and all those around us, don't turn to the vile and even sub-animal levels of behavior, and disregard other life, and that we can make better that totality of existence around us.

This, at least in part, is an aspect of what ordinary humans actually do. Not all do this, but many do. It's our 'redeeming' feature, it's the one ennobling quality that we can express in this world, it's the reparation we can create that allows forgiveness and love to exist.

Religions called it our deeper 'Divine' aspect and essence, during an age where the 'evil' expressed by that baboon was so common-place between animal and men.

We can make that incredible change in the world and it isn't just an idea, it is quite real, we do have this observable innate preexisting ability to make what happens in the world better, on every level. What's happening in that video above is almost sub-animal, it's what was maybe the meaning of what is termed "evil". We all know that behavior is there in the world, but is it any more 'natural' than what you feel, and the difference you can make, to that sort of situation in other contexts?

Humans know it's wrong, we feel that and no one has to tell us, the unspoken truth of it is already in us. Or at least it's in most of us.

Some humans really are operating at that level of the baboon within the video. We both know what we'd do to that baboon, right? We'd seek to 'punish' it, we might even go on a little crusade to demonstrate to the surrounding (human) baboons that this is not acceptable, even for baboons to do to their lunch.

We're the ones who perceive that 'Judgement', we make that 'Punishment', for this clearly 'Evil' action, as the product of unspoken and unspecified natural 'Law', and 'Justice' is what we seek, and a higher level of comprehension of this within the other baboons.

That response is already inside us, but it gets led astray very easily by, 'leaders', by state policy, religion, politician, or social peer-group, etc.

It's something in us that we alone are responsible for.

When formal institutions and organizations get a hold of this quality within us and we submit to their assumed authority they immediate begin to twist that quality and capacity for 'Love' into a monstrosity, that we now see being daily expressed by such authorities. A state Law court turns that capacity into a criminal monstrosity as it turns Justice back into an 'evil' action in many instances.

Our original human response when we see such 'evil' expressed in the world does have its natural place, it is our natural orderliness, it is our very "being human". This is what really constitutes a "human being". And that is the only thing that ever really matters, even if we don't know it. Everything else we ever learn, or do, or have anything to do with is secondary, or tertiary compared to our stunning ability to express 'Love' into this world and turn utter horror into great beauty.


I've always appreciated your views akak so please don't get despondent. Just make the difference in the world that you can and that will do very nicely. 


Miffed Microbiologist's picture

That was a very touching, thought out post element. It showed a deep understanding of humanity and it's potential for good. This I also acknowledge as I see this everyday. But it is fascinating as well to observe the evil elements of humanity, the psychopathy that infiltrates some around us. What I have observed is these psychopaths are inherently narcissistic and power loving. They naturally gravitate towards leadership roles to fulfill a need we don't understand.

The baboon is an animal. Sentient but not capable of empathy. This describes the psychopath as well but because he/she is human we demand morality. Unfortunately, they are incapable of this. Yet, we as empathetic, moral, loving individuals cannot understand a human being incapable of this so they, often being charismatic, can fool us. And then we find ourselves being ruled by these unscrupulous beings. Removing these people historically has been bloody and violent. It is sad we cannot seem to be vigilant enough to prevent this from happening in the first place. We need to be wise a serpents and gentle as doves.


Element's picture

I pity people who are deeply fractured and conflicted inside and unable to ever be free of that, and at rest, fully at ease in this world. Like that old biblical whisper, "Be Still". I see many smart people and they're often afflicted and driven by something deep that they can't articulate, and they won't know what it is until it's already gone. It is only known via its absence. And only they can work on that.

And given what a task that is, that, alone, is why I pity them - no other reason for genuine pity exists. Pity, because so very few people ever take that path all the way to death and back, if need be, and they consequently will never come-to-rest. They will be afflicted until they age and then die.

To them I'd say it is a very good thing if they have some time on their hands where they can freely work on themselves with out any distraction, and if they do have this, don't waste it. The world needs everyone to develop inside. We spend all economic effort to develop a "Developed World", and the thing that needs more development than anything else on earth, has been the most tragically neglected by a world of progress. Hence what we need most in the world is not here.

And all the talk on all the forums and all the blogs will never produce any of it.

It is inside, already, waiting.

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Be still and know I am. Funny, you describe myself and my struggles. My counselor told me early in our work to imagine myself on my death bed. All the regrets and sadnesses that wells up at that place we will explore their depths to their roots. We will focus on resolution and, at times, this will be a battle. All other issues, petty complains and gripes are not worth attention. Unfortunately, the majority of people do the reverse because focusing on the deep CORE of your struggles is intense and terrifying. The courage and will to go there must be great. Most find it not worth it and focus on safer complaints that may be resolved but will never touch the core issue which still drives them. In my case, the choice was easier because I couldn't live anymore as I was, so if jumping into an active volcano was presented as a cure, I would do it. During one of my sessions, I did say it was like this. My therapist told me she will ask me to go there but will never push me over the edge. I must do this myself and she is just a guide. After my therapy was over I realized she was absolutely correct. She showed me the way but I had done all the work to cure myself. All who who suffer must walk this path or be forever tormented.

I will tell you something a bit strange that I have noticed after doing this. People in pain "see" me. I have had a young girl crying in my arms when I had just gone into her shop to buy a shirt. I've been sitting in a coffee shop and someone will spontaneously start talking to me about their pain. This never happened before. Its to the point if my husband wants to do a chore quickly he has me stay home or someone will engage me and delay the trip. He says I have a lightness about me that they are attracted to like moths. But the truly sad part is the light they are looking outside of themselves is truly inside. They simply haven't found it.


acetinker's picture

C'mon akak- I mean really.  IF this dude is telling the truth, he/she is not relating history, only personal experience.  Hitler said that history is merely the collection of generally accepted lies, at any given point in time. or sumpin' like that.

The Fuhrer was absolutely right about that, imho.

The only history that counts is your own personal experience- and even with that, it pays to be careful.

sun tzu's picture

Stalin wasn't Russian you doofus. Just as many Russians were being exterminated by the Communists. You paid pro-EU trolls are dispicable.

akak's picture

I am NOT pro-EU in ANY way, as I made great pains to make clear.

And even more despicable are you pro-Putin, pro-authoritarian trolls.

PS: As Stalin did not single-handedly carry out the murder of those millions of Ukrainians, you might want to consider that it was indeed primarily Russians who were responsible for their deaths.

spacewiz's picture

Stalin also killed 20 million or so Russians, he was just a psychopath murderer with power to kill millions

john.smith's picture

Soviet commie policies sucked, but to be fair Stalin was Georgian. Also, the east of Ukraine today is pretty Russian, so of course the Ruskies are gonna get upset when the ultra nationalists in Kiev start banning the Russian language and targeting Russians.

123dobryden's picture

exactly my feeling, I think great deal of this shit is coming from RussiaToday, with poor americans, full of Obama's shit turning to his grave enemy for salvation, exactly like ukrainian people turning blindly for help to EU trap.

and as for the south-east ukraine, they not always sucked russian cocks as well, Nestor Machno could speak...

Power corrupts and breeds parasites everywhere in the universe

TheReplacement's picture

It takes two to tango.  Russia has not been kind to Ukrainians in the past.  How many millions died of starvation and related problems due to, not Nazi or even European, Russian policies?  Don't go on about Stalin being Georgian.  It was mostly Russians who carried out the orders and murdered millions.

What you and everyone else needs to do is learn that you cannot undo the past.  The people who did all those horrible things on both sides are pretty much long gone.  Get over it.  Stop the cycle.  Live your life and let others do the same.  If western Ukraine becomes a seperate country who is to complain?  If they join the EU, let them.  If they decide to be independent, let them.  Everyone needs to stop being so childish and just let live. 

Since we know that there is absolutely no chance that everyone will ever behave like that, war on.  Make sure you sign up and fight at the front to win glory for Mother Russia!  Your dictator is best!  Maybe they can use your corpse for fertilizer.  Soylent Green is Crimeans, Russians, and Ukrainians!