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Russia vs Ukraine: The Infographic
Curious how Ukraine, which with its population of 44 million and size of 603,628 square km makes it the largest single country entirely in Europe, stacks up against Russia? The following infographic should answer some questions regarding the (im)balance of power.
And as a follow up, here is a map showing the location of the various sites of the Russian Navy in the Crimea. These will be the first sites to see a surge in Russian troop presence.
H/t @MrHalimi, @seanrussiablog
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I think it's time for Holder to send another snotty letter to the Kremlin - that'll give 'em what-for.
Mr. Putin, if you want domain over 44MM people, we have 49MM on foodstamps....and here's the kicker....they all have their own pre paid cellphone!
It's the US that wants control over them.
The US was the aggressor during the Cold War and it hasn't stopped.
honestly stunned the population of russia is not much larger
didnt stalin kill like 30 million?
plus population growth...what as the population low at that point?
would they like 30 million mexicans?
they have much more room for them than we do
A nation full of hard-core alcoholics tends to have a high rate of birth defects and miscarriages. Russia isn't keeping up with the demographic pace better than anyone else. They're just doing a better job at keeping the minorities out, not too far removed from Japan's policies.
Putin will keep Crimea. The rest there's no reason to pay for. Let G-S take it over and pay for their debt services while they all starve like Greece.
And no one has said whether Russia is going to get paid for the oil and gas that has already been transshipped. Would you want to owe Putin tens - if not hundreds - of millions of dollars?
We may end up in a situation where the West starts pumping billions into Ukraine simply to pay the Russians for their energy. Putin's no fool.
Putin won't settle for Crimea..., he will not leave until he has secured the whole of the country, at least politically. Got to protect those gas lines, afterall.
Here they are pretty even
http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Ukraine&word2=Russia
And the US is only there out of the kindness of their hearts?
They hate us for our generosity.
Paul Craig Roberts talks the turmoil in Ukraine and who is behind it. One of his best interviews imho.
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/3/1_Dr...
sitting here watching an MSNBC program called UP. its a bunch of smug self-important young people who don't know s*** about foreign policy, least of all Russia.
if this is the kind of advice Obama's getting from a group of people like this it's no wonder we're doing as badly as we are. Putin has been playing international politics longer than these people have been alive. these people have a few years experience on the periphery of international politics and that is all but that seems to qualify them to be on TV telling people what should be done here.
this has always been a hallmark of Russian international politics. They send people to do this kind of work who have decades or lifetimes of experience unlike the United States which changes regimes every few years and continues to bring in inexperienced amateurs to deal with foreign nations. Our amateurs are usually able to get away with it because of the power of the American military power behind them, a power which is now on the wane by all measures.
you can see the result.
sw, we see results and have seen them for decades, should the american citizen support the DC cabal, our secrets agencies and sadly the military? or have you not noticed the destruction of our rights and our true status as tax units?? for me the USA of DC has become the enemy, and a breakup of our nation may be the only out. the corrupt can not make the changes to our .gov that have changed our free country into nothing more than a concentration camp without the ovens (so far))..
yes, don't think my post is suggesting we should be the world's tough guy. I am ready for some other nation to host the reserve currency and deal with the consequences of that. It will get worse for some time afterwards, though. As we have seen thus far, the cronies will hang on to their power and position as long as they can even in the face of a crumble or collapse. There might be a rebirth of American liberty, but it ain't coming soon. The guns are all being turned inward in a last ditch effort to maintain the plantation. That much is obvious.
Ah, the Putin-is-Hitler meme. It's got legs, and we'll be seeing a lot. Seeing it all the way to final victory!
Hitler was a murderous dictator.
Putin is a mafia Don.
Big difference.
Mostly in that dictators at least pay lip service to ideology.
Putin couldn't give two fucks.
Pipelines might not be as important as many thing with Nord Stream being online now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream
Update: "Russia's state gas company Gazprom estimates Ukraine's outstanding gas debt at $1.55 billion for 2013 and gas deliveries so far this year. This of course, was Russia's trump card from the very beginning."
They mobilized their military to collect an IOU?
That's how we all roll, dog. Smedley Butler said something about that. Hmm. Something about a US coup, too . . .
The Ukraine produces something they neglected in the infographic. Food. Lots of grains that Russia really would like to get ahold of.
I bet the EU would like it also.
The EU would like to print up some funny money and exchange it for the Ukraine's obsolete unimportant "remnant of the past" yellow metal.
I'm with you, no sense in Russia holding western Ukraine. Crimea is another matter altogether, as it should be.
I can see logic in Putin's imperialistic adventures. I see America lashing out like a fat, but strong blindman, having not been provoked.
What I don't see is a happy ending, for anyone.
A good post thought I would share it to show that there is no love to be had for the Neo Nazi West
I'm from Sevastopol, was born there and lived there for the most part of my life. I couldn't speak or even understand Ukrainian till I was about 17 years old, we never learned it in school, the TV was both in Russian and Ukrainian and I, as well as the others, watched russian-speaking channels. Western and Eastern Ukraines were apart for about 700 years and fought multiple wars with each other, First and Second World Wars including. I understand you, westerners, support new-born Ukrainian democracy but what you don't understand is that this new Ukraine is actually exclusively Western Ukraine. We speak Russian in the South-East, they speak Ukrainian. They are of absolutely different culture. What's more, they hate Russia which is our Motherland. We fought for it in the Second World War and our cities were burned to the ground, millions died. They fought for the Nazis, for what they thought was civilization and Europe. And now they are the same. What's more, they are fanatics, they want their Ukraine so much that they'll willingly sign the association with EU that will bring extreme poverty abd degradation as it already did with Bosnia and Herzegovina, Baltic states, Romania, Bulgaria and to a lesser extent Poland, Hungary, etc. Well, we are tired of being poor and humiliated. We are Russians and we want home.
I'm also half-jewish. My jewish grandfather fought in Sevastopol. He was an officer in the Black Sea fleet. He knew he wouldn't survive if captured. And he wanted to spend his last bullet on the nazi. So, he always carried a capsule od cyanide with him to take his own life when the last bullet has been used. He survived but the majority of his family was murdered by nazis. When they came here, the firsy thing they did was they made all the jews gather at the stadium and then murdered them all, women and children included. Every single one.
When you think of Ukraine, think of the wetern ukrainians willingly and enthusiastically helping the nazis in their atrocities. Tatars did the same. They hunted partisans and jews and killed them or gave away to the nazis.
They still hate Russia and russians thinking of them as barbarians and long for "civilized" EU. Well, farewell. They'll find only more poverty and serfdom.
I've written this lengthy post because I've been to the USA and respect ordinary americans for their love of freedom, their morals and industry. But the West doesn't always understand what's going on here.
Thank you for taking the time to write! Your perspective is interesting!
+100
We don't understand a great deal about history and how the world works...
(FYI-Stalin wasn't much better than Hitler)
Now we are led by clowns. Nuff said...
Stalin wasn't Russian nor Ukranian. He was a Georgian.
See, it just goes to prove you can't trust those damned Southerners.
I find your glaring blind spot towards the historical Russian arrogance and animosity towards Ukraine, and Russian atrocities towards Ukrainians, most revealing. You most conveniently fail to remember the Holodomor of the 1930s, in which millions of Ukrainians were purposely starved by Stalin in order to break their spirit and will to resist communism and Sovietization.
Do you ever stop to ask yourself why so many (desperate) Ukrainians turned towards the despised Nazis as 'liberators'? It was solely because they were already being EXTERMINATED by the Russian Communists!
Honestly, the pro-Putin, pro-Russian-authoritarianism streak leaking into the comments here on ZH is really making me sick already. Is it due to paid pro-Russian trolls? I am really starting to wonder just what the fuck is happening here.
We want it ALL to go away, akak. And we all know it isn't going to happen.
I don't think anyone is taking sides, as much as everyone is sick of these centuries of evil imposing death and destruction on the innocent. The tide just shifts from decade to decade.
Well, there are some here who get paid to write . . .
Sometimes it is more important what we do and say today or tomorrow, than what we did or said last year, or even last week.
I don't think we're so much pro Putin as anti Rothchild/Federal Reserve and our politicians complacency in their NWO agenda.
Hey dont blame me I voted for Obama
Indeed akak! Let's not forget the great General Patton. "I'm proud to fight here beside you, now let's cut the guts out of those krauts and get the hell to Berlin" George S Patton. And let's not forget also what he thought of that squinty eyed Stalin!
Ignorant post.
Patton changed his mind later...
It was the Russians who did the large majority of the "kraut" killing but the American propaganda claims that it was their victory. Go ahead and take your general patton diatribe and shove him up your arse.
Patton was the American Rommel and their best general at the operational level...
The guy you should have issues with was Bradley who rose above Patton to become his CO...
Both 'sides' are wrong.
Those controlling large groups of convenient, brainwashed idiot thugs think they have the right to tell others what to do.
This is just a battle between two such groups.
As in another post, this is why anarchism is the only hope for a decent world.
Logicalman, I agree with you 100%. There are no "good guys" in this conflict, except for those Ukrainians who wish to live neither under the thumb of Putin and his Russian/NeoSoviet revanchism, nor within the smothering embrace of the EU and/or its NATO handmaiden. But it is sad how few are those particular voices in this conflict and in this debate.
@akak,
I understand your disappointment. Here is a disturbing video of the nature of a complete lack of empathy and absence of love in the animal 'nature'. Selco put this up on SHTF recently to demonstrate a point, so a warning to the squeamish, this is beyond brutal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcnH_TOqi3I&feature=player_embedded
When I watch that I see the absence of basic empathy and love. Now most humans would never allow that, or do something like that, though some would, and do. If you ever saw the wild 'Elsa' the lioness from the movie "Born Free", you'd know that what that Baboon was doing within the video is not the way it has to be, nor the way that it naturally is, with many animals. If it was then Elsa would not have clearly totally loved some humans, as companions, rather than as convenient dinner on legs.
We know that animals do have this capacity for empathy and love as we see it in dogs and other pets. But I've also seen a pit-bull attack and slowly kill a man. The genetic strain clearly played a role, humans had selectively bred the pit-bull with just that sort of focused vicious aggressive quality. We deliberately caused and encouraged that breed to express that brutal behavior. We 'domesticated' it to do that.
States and their armies take young socialized humans and culturally 'domesticate' them towards controlled aggression and murderous actions, but this is OK as this never creates disastrous impacts after they're discharged. (/extreme sarc)
So the disturbance this produces is not normal, in animals, or in the human animal, and it's part of our job to figure out what makes for that difference in us and in others, and what sort of person we want to be, and the sort of world we want to be in. We do have the capacity to at least effect and affect this difference between us and that baboon's actions.
Humans are different, other animals have some of these same capacities, but humans have a deep capacity to bring into this world, mercy, empathy, compassion and 'Love'. Both between humans and between animals. This is something that we and we alone are best capable of doing, so that the sort of unnecessary wonton horror that is seen within that video above does not occur between humans, or between animals, where it's possible to make that difference.
Human responses do have this ability to drain the swamp of 'evils'.
Our 'Religions', in their purest form (not the fiendish degenerate crap they usually turn into) tell us these very same things, that we can create a world of love. Religion added nothing that did not already pre-exist as a integral part of us, they only ever pointed our attention to the innate capacity we already had. This is why they said a 'holy-spirit' was within you that God's 'Love' was everywhere, etc. That 'Love' (for want of a better word) is a feature of physical existence itself as is 'mind', as is this conscious 'intelligence' that can make such 'Love' a normal and natural state, expressed within our world, and not a limited peculiarity. We don't have to be starry-eyed naive romantics to realize this, that we can express that, instead, within our world, in 2014.
Even wild lions filmed taking down zebras, commonly all wait for the one on the throat to block the windpipe and kill it before they begin to rip it's belly open. So on some level even intelligent plains predators recognize that although they must eat zebra, pin it down and kill it first, as quickly as possible, which both reduces its suffering and also prevents it's getting away. Maybe not all lions are so merciful to prey, but we know that many of them do wait until it's dead before they start to rip it apart. Even if that example is deemed not all that compelling, we do see endless acts of amazing compassion, throughout all of the 'animal' world (there are plenty of videos of this too), and even between entirely different species.
Empathy is real. Compassion is real. Mercy is real. The attempt to deny that these do in some way 'exist', is what's apparently not consistent with observation of our world, and of human and animal behavior. We do these things, they emerge naturally from humans, and also from animals. This is a fact. We could lump all that together under 'Love', and point out that it exists in the world, independently, because it is in fact in some unfathomable way, a part of the fabric of infinity itself, that produced us, and what we can do.
So if brutality comes our way, we can always maintain our beings, and make this difference in the world so that us, and all those around us, don't turn to the vile and even sub-animal levels of behavior, and disregard other life, and that we can make better that totality of existence around us.
This, at least in part, is an aspect of what ordinary humans actually do. Not all do this, but many do. It's our 'redeeming' feature, it's the one ennobling quality that we can express in this world, it's the reparation we can create that allows forgiveness and love to exist.
Religions called it our deeper 'Divine' aspect and essence, during an age where the 'evil' expressed by that baboon was so common-place between animal and men.
We can make that incredible change in the world and it isn't just an idea, it is quite real, we do have this observable innate preexisting ability to make what happens in the world better, on every level. What's happening in that video above is almost sub-animal, it's what was maybe the meaning of what is termed "evil". We all know that behavior is there in the world, but is it any more 'natural' than what you feel, and the difference you can make, to that sort of situation in other contexts?
Humans know it's wrong, we feel that and no one has to tell us, the unspoken truth of it is already in us. Or at least it's in most of us.
Some humans really are operating at that level of the baboon within the video. We both know what we'd do to that baboon, right? We'd seek to 'punish' it, we might even go on a little crusade to demonstrate to the surrounding (human) baboons that this is not acceptable, even for baboons to do to their lunch.
We're the ones who perceive that 'Judgement', we make that 'Punishment', for this clearly 'Evil' action, as the product of unspoken and unspecified natural 'Law', and 'Justice' is what we seek, and a higher level of comprehension of this within the other baboons.
That response is already inside us, but it gets led astray very easily by, 'leaders', by state policy, religion, politician, or social peer-group, etc.
It's something in us that we alone are responsible for.
When formal institutions and organizations get a hold of this quality within us and we submit to their assumed authority they immediate begin to twist that quality and capacity for 'Love' into a monstrosity, that we now see being daily expressed by such authorities. A state Law court turns that capacity into a criminal monstrosity as it turns Justice back into an 'evil' action in many instances.
Our original human response when we see such 'evil' expressed in the world does have its natural place, it is our natural orderliness, it is our very "being human". This is what really constitutes a "human being". And that is the only thing that ever really matters, even if we don't know it. Everything else we ever learn, or do, or have anything to do with is secondary, or tertiary compared to our stunning ability to express 'Love' into this world and turn utter horror into great beauty.
I've always appreciated your views akak so please don't get despondent. Just make the difference in the world that you can and that will do very nicely.
Cheers
That was a very touching, thought out post element. It showed a deep understanding of humanity and it's potential for good. This I also acknowledge as I see this everyday. But it is fascinating as well to observe the evil elements of humanity, the psychopathy that infiltrates some around us. What I have observed is these psychopaths are inherently narcissistic and power loving. They naturally gravitate towards leadership roles to fulfill a need we don't understand.
The baboon is an animal. Sentient but not capable of empathy. This describes the psychopath as well but because he/she is human we demand morality. Unfortunately, they are incapable of this. Yet, we as empathetic, moral, loving individuals cannot understand a human being incapable of this so they, often being charismatic, can fool us. And then we find ourselves being ruled by these unscrupulous beings. Removing these people historically has been bloody and violent. It is sad we cannot seem to be vigilant enough to prevent this from happening in the first place. We need to be wise a serpents and gentle as doves.
Miffed;-)
I pity people who are deeply fractured and conflicted inside and unable to ever be free of that, and at rest, fully at ease in this world. Like that old biblical whisper, "Be Still". I see many smart people and they're often afflicted and driven by something deep that they can't articulate, and they won't know what it is until it's already gone. It is only known via its absence. And only they can work on that.
And given what a task that is, that, alone, is why I pity them - no other reason for genuine pity exists. Pity, because so very few people ever take that path all the way to death and back, if need be, and they consequently will never come-to-rest. They will be afflicted until they age and then die.
To them I'd say it is a very good thing if they have some time on their hands where they can freely work on themselves with out any distraction, and if they do have this, don't waste it. The world needs everyone to develop inside. We spend all economic effort to develop a "Developed World", and the thing that needs more development than anything else on earth, has been the most tragically neglected by a world of progress. Hence what we need most in the world is not here.
And all the talk on all the forums and all the blogs will never produce any of it.
It is inside, already, waiting.
Be still and know I am. Funny, you describe myself and my struggles. My counselor told me early in our work to imagine myself on my death bed. All the regrets and sadnesses that wells up at that place we will explore their depths to their roots. We will focus on resolution and, at times, this will be a battle. All other issues, petty complains and gripes are not worth attention. Unfortunately, the majority of people do the reverse because focusing on the deep CORE of your struggles is intense and terrifying. The courage and will to go there must be great. Most find it not worth it and focus on safer complaints that may be resolved but will never touch the core issue which still drives them. In my case, the choice was easier because I couldn't live anymore as I was, so if jumping into an active volcano was presented as a cure, I would do it. During one of my sessions, I did say it was like this. My therapist told me she will ask me to go there but will never push me over the edge. I must do this myself and she is just a guide. After my therapy was over I realized she was absolutely correct. She showed me the way but I had done all the work to cure myself. All who who suffer must walk this path or be forever tormented.
I will tell you something a bit strange that I have noticed after doing this. People in pain "see" me. I have had a young girl crying in my arms when I had just gone into her shop to buy a shirt. I've been sitting in a coffee shop and someone will spontaneously start talking to me about their pain. This never happened before. Its to the point if my husband wants to do a chore quickly he has me stay home or someone will engage me and delay the trip. He says I have a lightness about me that they are attracted to like moths. But the truly sad part is the light they are looking outside of themselves is truly inside. They simply haven't found it.
Miffed;-)
C'mon akak- I mean really. IF this dude is telling the truth, he/she is not relating history, only personal experience. Hitler said that history is merely the collection of generally accepted lies, at any given point in time. or sumpin' like that.
The Fuhrer was absolutely right about that, imho.
The only history that counts is your own personal experience- and even with that, it pays to be careful.
Stalin wasn't Russian you doofus. Just as many Russians were being exterminated by the Communists. You paid pro-EU trolls are dispicable.
I am NOT pro-EU in ANY way, as I made great pains to make clear.
And even more despicable are you pro-Putin, pro-authoritarian trolls.
PS: As Stalin did not single-handedly carry out the murder of those millions of Ukrainians, you might want to consider that it was indeed primarily Russians who were responsible for their deaths.
Stalin also killed 20 million or so Russians, he was just a psychopath murderer with power to kill millions
Soviet commie policies sucked, but to be fair Stalin was Georgian. Also, the east of Ukraine today is pretty Russian, so of course the Ruskies are gonna get upset when the ultra nationalists in Kiev start banning the Russian language and targeting Russians.
exactly my feeling, I think great deal of this shit is coming from RussiaToday, with poor americans, full of Obama's shit turning to his grave enemy for salvation, exactly like ukrainian people turning blindly for help to EU trap.
and as for the south-east ukraine, they not always sucked russian cocks as well, Nestor Machno could speak...
Power corrupts and breeds parasites everywhere in the universe
It takes two to tango. Russia has not been kind to Ukrainians in the past. How many millions died of starvation and related problems due to, not Nazi or even European, Russian policies? Don't go on about Stalin being Georgian. It was mostly Russians who carried out the orders and murdered millions.
What you and everyone else needs to do is learn that you cannot undo the past. The people who did all those horrible things on both sides are pretty much long gone. Get over it. Stop the cycle. Live your life and let others do the same. If western Ukraine becomes a seperate country who is to complain? If they join the EU, let them. If they decide to be independent, let them. Everyone needs to stop being so childish and just let live.
Since we know that there is absolutely no chance that everyone will ever behave like that, war on. Make sure you sign up and fight at the front to win glory for Mother Russia! Your dictator is best! Maybe they can use your corpse for fertilizer. Soylent Green is Crimeans, Russians, and Ukrainians!
Rational thought ends where ingroup morality begins.
Don't need no stinkin' prefrontal cortex.
The Ukranians sided with the Mongols to capture and enslave over 3 million Russians, more than 20% of their population. It's tit for tat
thank you Independent, excellent post
Because cyanide capsules were, like, just laying around everywhere, right? Everyone kept them handy, just in the off-chance they might want to bite down on one, right? Because a bullet in the scone just wouldn't cut it, right? Bullets were for the nazi zombie horde.
Sounds just a wee bit fictional to me.
Please, don't associate EU with nazi, poverty and with the scars from the second world war.
First, because the Molotov-Ribentrop non-aggression pakt was signed between Russia and Germany, with the purpose of splitting the spoils of the war waged by Russia and Germany on Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact. So, really, the war was started by two former allies and aggressors stabbing each other in the back. Regarding other nazi claims, please check the historical facts on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor, one of the greatest mass killings in history which happened in 1932-33 in Ukraine under Soviet rule.
Second, Romania, Bulgaria and the Baltic states are doing pretty well. The extreme poverty and degradation you are talking about are just selective information that Russian people are fed with through state-controlled media. Please visit these countries before talking about them.
Soviet Union, not Russia.
It's just a semantic difference. It was the Russian empire, then the Soviet "union" empire, now it's again Russian empire. There is no union there, just a collection of countries that were conquered and are kept under Russia rule using force and massive dislocations of people.
Using the same logic of "protecting russian citizens", why can't Russia invade China or US - both have great numbers of russian citizens living there?
"why can't Russia invade China or US - both have great numbers of russian citizens living there?"
neocon I see neocon I smell- go to hell.
I seem to remember reading that some 8 million Ukraines were killed in WWII, didn't learn that in school, perhaps it was in Tragedy & Hope.
Exc post - thanx
My wife and I were in your home town on the Navy Day celebration last July, I was surprised how beautiful the city was, sorry preconceived notion it would be like a military base
No, mexicans - you can keep.
Surprised as well. Stalin killed 30 (33???) Million Ukrainians.
Much better Real Estate in the Ukraine, or so it seems.
But Jews like this guy don't want to admit that. Nor do they want to admit to the millions of Russians purged by Bolshevik Jews under Lenin. Shove all of the non-Nazi atrocities down the memory hole!
All other things considered equal they should have been 300 millions with reasonable demographic trends. Shows you what effect poltics can have.Communsim , Stalinism and ...Hitler.
However they did break the neck of the German Army. When history in the U.S. is told and European nations, especially France , are sneered at - the story is that it was the American war effort that saved the world from Hitler. A piddly 6 000 on D-Day and then we get lectured on that magnificent , enormous annihilation battle of the Bulge.
In the the east the Russians alone took something like 20 million in casualties (armed forces+civilians)
Hitler's fight was lost the moment he rolled on Russia. US involvement was about keeping Western Europe out of Russian hands.
Soviets would have lost without US-British aid. They were out of raw materials to make gunpowder to make bullets and bombs and had set their oilfields in the Caucasus on fire to keep them out of German hands. Learn a bit of history
Out of raw materials? In Russia? That country spans 11 time zones. You do not run out of raw materials in a place like that. Maybe you get short on ready-to go stocks. But you really don´t run out of stuff.
You are going to have to do much more than that to convince me or anyone here....
Soviets also provided the Nazis with the raw materials to rebuild their army in the 1930's. Then they allied with the Nazis to invade and divide Poland. Karma's a bitch.
Yes. Not very prescient. But hindsight is always 20/20. However you have a point in saying that you should be a bit careful when creating alliances.
It´s like combatting Al Qaida and later join forces with in a place like...let´s say Syria. Who would do such an insane thing? You could compare that Russki venture with a modern idea to provide Al Qeda with missiles to take down aircraft. Anyone can understand that it very quickly will come back and bite you.
Stalin was an employee of the Rothschilds. One of many Jewish bankers who helped finance the Bolshevik revolution. Jews effectively ran the Soviet Union until Israel was birthed and then the Jews moved to the Middle East so they could kill Palestinians. Jews even acknowledge murdering 20 million. The actual total was probably closer to 60 million.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Complete and utter horseshit....
Zzzzzz....
Stalin singlehandedly killed 30 million people?
The government did maybe.
He had a phone and a pen. Never underestimate the power of the pen. Signed a lot of lists.
You underestimate Stalin's evil side. There was billions killed by Stalin himself.
He was, really, an evil. He really was an evil and really managed to kill or not to save a lot of lives.
But... Use the calculator, Luke
Anyone voting against this comment definitely is the beneficiary of between one and a dozen free 0himmler phones
Is that Neville Ohimmler?
S-400s rollin.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b53_1393699552
I'm guessing Putin is just waiting for Zero to try to establish a no fly zone. Well its gonna be a no-fly zone for US/NATO planes. . . . .
edit:
more info on the s-400
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxUnnbZDqAc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgQ83irr0o
I'm pretty sure this IS NOT Russia vs Ukraine!!! The Russian Army has rolled over half the fucking Country faster then Hitler over Poland and they haven't fired a shot yet!!
If the Ukrainian Army wanted to put up a fight, they would have, not leaving the barracks says it all!! This rebel operation in Kiev is in real trouble, come Monday morning!!
Then 35,000-45,000 Euromaiden types are going to be arrested, just as they would be in the good ol US of A these days, and charged with treason, or terrorism, or disorderly conduct, or murder, or all of it!! Then the currently elected President will declare the chaos over and the Russian Military will melt back away across the borders and into their bases in Ukraine, and the party will be over!!
Barry may still be on the phone, when it's all over, asking for a status report!!!
F**k the EU as the US diplomatic corps is telling
Thanks for info. Ukraine has nothing to fear cause POTUS said he Russia will pay. HA HA, What a joke.
Obama just found out the Ukes are a very very white people. So they are definitely on their own. March Madness is his biggest concern now.
syracuse orangemen ftmfw
i'm not a basketball fan, but mark my words
the gambling money knows
Tend to disagree. Their record is 26-2, played 9 away games, 2 of those against really good teams, Pittsburgh and Duke, and lost one. Margin of victory: home +13.6, away +6.9.
I wouldn't mind if Russia invaded the private corporation located in the District of Columbia and got rid of all the lying scumbag traitors starting with Barry, I wouldn't let him watch March Madness from jail.
Next comes the part where zato unleashes the liver eaters in Russia and eastern Ukraine.
But only with some fava beans and a nice chianti!
"Obama just found out the Ukes are a very very white people."
And the Tatars are what you dip your fish in.
Maybe he should appoint a Hollywood bundler as ambassador. That'll be sure to help this crisis.
Yes, because when two countries go to war, only two armies are used. Life is not like 'Risk'.
Being a superpower has its benefits and its costs. For better or for worse your allies always ask for help when they have some type of problem. When you send a message to all your friends that they are now on their own on the world stage then your friends start doing things they would not have done while you were there to help them...they start tryingto acquire weapons of mass destruction as a defense of last resort, they start making pre-emptory strikes as a 'defense'. The denial of support creates a vacuum for the bad guys to tkae advantage of and it has a very destabilizing effect on the world. Like anyone, I do not like war, but I wonder if the costs of doing little now will end up being very expensive later. We all pay to maintain our homes so they don't fall down on us, how is this any different? My concern is the shortsightedness of our president as he cuts our military while the debt is skyrocketing...where will this leave our children in 10 to 20 years? Btw, Israel now knows they are on their own with Iran...I would expect as a result that we will see something take place with that situation sooner than later as a result of Obama's message to the world. There is no good answer or perfect outcome, but when you let the bad guys get away with shit it emboldens them and they band together to make things worse for all. I worry that Obama does not think strategically or long term...the world that loved him 5 years ago now looks at him as an impotent actor, and that is not good for anyone.
Being a superpower means that it is super evil.
Please explain how you come to this conclusion...
Power corrupts.....
Super power super corrupts, or something......
Obama doesn't think. G-S does the thinking. O does what he is told.
Now the question is, how good is Putin at fishing for vampire squid?
The thing is, Obama did what he was told. The goal of $5B in aid was to drive a political wedge between Russia and Western Ukraine. The surprise outcome was it succeeded.
The problem is the wedge was a symbol to a wide range of nationalities who are in Russia's borders. The Kremlin views the Ukraine situation as an existential threat to Russia's internal stability in addition to its external sphere of influence. Its leadership feels cornered ans thus has acted.
The West, surprised also at the outcome, is now panicked because the leadership believes it must be seen "in solidarity" with Western Ukraine, but at the same time back off the damage it has already done.
The last thing the West needs is an angry Russia sending SA-400's to Iran or flooding Syria with advanced anti-ship missiles, manned by Russians to deter against surprise air attacks against said assets.
Just so you know the $5 billion was over a period of 23 years and works out to about 5 bucks a year per Ukrainian...
If only the Game of Thrones was so cheap...
If only you could sell the Game of Thrones each year for the next 23 years, mandatory, to all the people in a country.
Hell, TPP is goin to globalize and electronically automate that ability.
Dammit, a F-35s and M1-A tanks can pay for a buttload of "Free" healthcare, get with the program!
Guess you never read "The Art of War" by Sun Tsu...
I hope the Vlad goes full retard and tries to install another puppet....
Queue the Ukrainian Intifada....
Yeah because the US wants to install their puppet. We all know how well that turns out too. Shah, Saddam, Noriega, etc.
Yea, only Russians with their KGB alumni leaders should be able to install puppet slave states.
Never said they should either. We have a habit of interjecting ourselves into foreign matters. I believe it was Jefferson who said we should stay out of them. He (and our founding fathers) were much smarter men than we have today in government.
Ukraine and Russia are kissing cousins. So, it is a family affair.
How many kids will come along in the 'new' family ? Is Turkey in tow ? The whole Black Sea region ?
Again you demonstrate a very simplistic understanding of history...
The rise of America guarenteed that in the 20th century it would no longer be possible to be isolationist...
Again, your standard of living is directly connected to that rise and the role of that the US found itself in by default...
The collapse of your cherished international gold standard is exactly one such consequence....
Wow you're so fucked up on every issue.
SMH
Explain why I am fucked up on every issue...
Debate me on the post I just made, show me where I went wrong....
I invite you to...
you smell funny
No thanks, I don't have that much time. Nor do I truly care to enlighten you.
Because you know that you quite incapable of it....
Toodles...
Whatever you say Nits.
The games have been the same for 5000 years with only the names of the players changing...
Assuming you are living in North America or Western Europe the standard of living you enjoy is a direct consquence of who has been winning that game over the past 500 years or so...
You are clearly too naive to grasp that and appreciate that simple fact. You have demonstrated time and time again...
I agree that the game sucks but unless you think you can wave a magic wand to change humanity you are stuck with it...
There is always somebody that thinks they deserve the top job, and it only takes one to ruin it for the rest...
Deal with it and quit acting like a petulant child...
I just waved my wand and we now have skittles, unicorns and peace on Earth. But Obama still sucks pricks and Putin is a dick.
Good, wave it again and maybe Rush Limbaugh will vanish...
Be careful, Flak, he may turn it on you.
Spot on statement about humanity Flakmeister (the insults, not so much). As much as we like to think it might, human nature will never change. It's never different this time.
Given the insults I have had to endure from somebody who is clearly blinded by a retarded ideology and childish naivete, I thought I was exceedingly gracious...
I only hope that is never subject to living in society ruled by a puppet of Vladimar Putin otherwise he might be shocked to learn what a real tyranny is like....
Oddly I didn't see any insults of consequence in the above posts. Who would you be referring to?
Here is an example of you gratuitously taking a cheap at me yesterday in the hope that you get a few greenies....
Here
I understand you are still upset over this very civil exchange where your ass was handed to you on a platter...
Starting here:
and ending here:
So lets cut the bullshit....
You're deluded. I have no problem throwing you a few love taps, felchmaster.
Keep trying to convince yourself that you're somehow superior as the Talmud tells you.
Given that I am not Jewish, it means little to me... It also shows what a fucking douche bag you truly are...
Quod Erat Demonstrandum...
Oddly it always seems to mean something to you. Guess I can't use that one to push your buttons, bummer. You must derive your superiority complex from somewhere else then.
Flakmeister, is that flak as in AA gunner or flak as in bullshit? I'll guess the latter, and must say you certainly are master of the BS.
Have a nice evening pumpkin. I'm off to have dinner with a half dozen available women, rather than bicker with you any longer.
They must like hanging around with some kind of douchebag. /sarc
Lac nucibus
6 women? Really?
Was that counting cousins as well?
Zzzzzzz....
BS, we ALWAYS have choices!
Usually the choice is whether it is better to die on one's feet that to live on one's knees...
And we know you live on your knees blowing your masters.
Is the best you can come up with is to call me a cocksucker?
And give yourself a greenie?
\facepalm
"Assuming you are living in North America or Western Europe the standard of living you enjoy is a direct consquence of who has been winning that game over the past 500 years or so..."
Flakmeister, you've pointed out an uncomfortable truism - that the Western elites have been stealing from and killing brown people for hundreds of years, accumulating huge wealth which has trickled down to the average person.
Your post seems to say we should just let our betters get on with it - 'don't watch how it's made, just enjoy the sausage.'
EXCEPT the trickle down is over, or haven't you noticed? Do you think the jobs are coming back once Ukraine is in the Western fold?
Maybe you should see yourself in those dead Iraqis and Ukranians, because our elites have the same contempt for you -- you are just as expendable. Maybe you'd be a little "petulant" too.
Funny, the up vote button isn't working for me on your post. It is working on others.
His/her vote button is not working for me either. 'Rukeysers Ghost' must be one of 'the 'Tylers' or has a special (paid member?) status.
I make no such statement re:Betters, by all means advocate for change but just realize the sisyphean task at hand...
Be full aware that only no one will sacrifice any prosperity in the here and now even if means the first legitimate steps towards a brighter future...
Just look at anthropogenic global warming.....
Edit: I fully realize that the trickle down era is over, Peak Oil is in the process of seeing to that. Virtual slaves from cheap energy will be hard to replace for those at the bottom...
So have your self a little revolution and kill all the bankers and lawyers, enjoy it while it lasts...
5000 years ago the games involved spears & swords.
Unfortunately, today, the idiots who think they have the right to run the place have nukes.
Unfortunately, their mentality hasn't changed.
Kinda worrying, if you think about it.
Ukraine to be the next Afghanistan for Russia?
It very well could be, at the very least the western part....
Nobody needs or wants the "western part".
If that is indeed the case, a diplomatic solution should be trivial then...
The Eurovision Song Contest votes should be very interesting this year....
If the western Ukraine were to join Nato, Belarus would be caught between Nato pincers. Defending Belarus would become impossible, which would weaken Russia's commitment to it. Another Putin's ally (partially) lost there. I'm not sure Putin 'wants' western Ukraine, but he definitely does not want it to join the EU or Nato.
I disagree. He does not want the western ukraine. NATO can pay for feeding them.
They are quite capable of feeding themselves and operating their own economy. I've known a few Ukrainians, not many, but they were not dumb or unsuccessful. If economy is a function of energy availability, plus trade links, and you live in the pocket of an energy superpower, your lack of flourishing is maybe not due to a lack of opportunity to help yourself. Frankly this spiraling crap-fest was all about a trade affiliation to begin with, and given they're broke they left it a bit late to act.
Wasnt absentee vp Biden selected for his "foreign policy expertise and gravitas"?
where is the press demanding interviews with Hillary (secy of state and presidential candidate)?
where is the press apologizing to sarah palin for crapping on her for 5 years about her "putin will take Ukraine if obama is elected" statement?
this admin is a disaster in progress. we're lucky it's only Ukraine.
<we're lucky it's only Ukraine.>
The game has only begun. Putin is just warming up for the main event,whatever that is.
He'll be real sorry when Obama gets off of the golf course and finds out what he as done. I'll bet Obama sends Joe to kick his ass.
The main event is Putins counter to the EU, the Eurasian Economic Union. A body of yes votes created by cobbling together a rag tag bunch of puppet states that can be controlled through the time tested Soviet practice of brute force and intimidation.
People constantly complain about the US and it's Imperialistic actions. If you want to see what true Imperialism looks like, just observe the Putin armed military thugs with full face masks taking control of a sovereign nation on a whim.
Watch the other hand.
Putin is used to multi tasking , whereas Obozo and his team are incapable
of doing one thing right at a time.
Fuck you!
It was CIA who started the whole thing with the "opposition" protests. Has everyone forgotten about Nuland's intercepted phone call? Putin didn't have a choice. The CIA should stop trying to intimidate, isolate, break apart, and feed on the carcasses of the states and nations they desroyed. Blood sucking parasites.
A full scale intervention here and the EU and Russia are "eyeball to eyeball."
That says to me "the USA winds up in the middle."
Will the USA come down in the side of the Russians?
That would be interesting.
I do think it safe to say Ms Nuland is done if the Russians go all in.
Germans defending Poland?
Great Britain into Belgrade?
Sweden expels the Russian Ambassador.
US Navy does something crazy?
Little surprised that no one really thought there should be a get together on this at the WH today. Nothing on the news...only CBS has some chit chat for a half hour tomorrow.
Sometimes "the situation takes charge of you."
<we're lucky it's only Ukraine.>
The game has only begun. Putin is just warming up for the main event,whatever that is.
He'll be real sorry when Obama gets off of the golf course and finds out what he has done. I'll bet Obama sends Joe to kick his ass.
Here's ya go.. Video and all:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/02/28/Flashback-Palin-Mocked-in-...
Oh, yeah, Biden.
I thought he got lost somewhere.