Ousted Ukraine President Yanukovich Has Asked Putin To Use Military Force In Ukraine

Tyler Durden's picture

The headlines are getting hot and heavy now. Just out from Bloomberg:


And Reuters with the punchline from Reuters:


CNN has the letter contents:

Ukraine is on the brink of civil war. In the country, there is chaos and anarchy.


The life, the security and the rights of people, particularly in the southeast part in Crimea are being threatened.


So under the influence of Western countries, there are open acts of terrorism and violence. People are being persecuted for language and political reasons.


So in this regard, I would call on the President of Russia, Mr. Putin, asking him to use the armed forces of the Russian Federation to establish legitimacy, peace, law and order, stability, and defending the people of Ukraine.

So what will Putin do if he still believes, as he has said, Yanuk to be the proper president of the Ukraine? Of course, this is all a smokescreen merely created to provide Russia yet another "justification" for its actions before the diplomatic circus that is the UN.

At the end of the day, if Obama's heartfelt pleadings about "costs" and what not did not stop Putin from invading the Ukraine, then certainly nothing aside from an armed retaliation will push him back.

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Hephaestus's picture

Build on this or tear it down. Lets see if it could be true


Not only that, Russia and China are finally coming to realize that the calculus of MAD in the Cold War era has been permanently altered by the ascendancy of China.

MAD is still there, but it is now overshadowed by the development of a Mexican Standoff. Russia and China can tag team the US into either committing suicide or giving up Empire and this dust-up in Ukraine is the perfect bookend to the Diaoyu Islands tension in the East Pacific.

The US either commits nuclear suicide or gives up hegemony and enters into economic decline like all ex-empires.


" the development of a Mexican Standoff. Russia and China can tag team the US into either committing suicide or giving up Empire and this dust-up in Ukraine is the perfect bookend"

Bingo Bingo BINGO! This is why I love ZH. If you look long enough you will find the truth. All of it makes sense when you tie it together at the nation level. I was shocked that Putin didnt see Ukraine coming. HE Did and the US just stuck its dick in a grinder. Putin wants the world....So does China. They are tag teaming the US. In order for this to happen both China and Russia must be convinced they could take the US alone at any away game. After doing a little digging I think China or Russia could indeed take us on any foreign turf.

The new Navy lazer weapons are really just a quickly cobbled together defense from the Chinese hammer of god weapon DF-21D . Too little too late they have the advantage.

Navy laser http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/navy-deploy-futuristic-laser-we...

DF-21D http://youtu.be/_ah2u1TkuHg and http://youtu.be/5Iuw3rnkud4

Russian P-800 http://youtu.be/a3zAolroOQs

Russian/Indian BrahMos http://youtu.be/7cBvj9R5DYo

If we had not wasted over a decade policing the world (asset stripping for bankers and oil CO's) maybe we could have been ahead. If we had not given China our whole industrial base perhaps we could have kept up. Instead its time to roll it up boys and girls US dominance is over. The empire is done. The dollar is toast. Russia and China have put the US out of the game. I think collapse in less than a year. More likely only a couple of months.

I hope to god Im wrong and in that spirit I will use Denninger's fav clip


I like this theory because it provides plausible answers to many of my personal questions.

Why the fuck did McCain and Horse face go all in supporting the (alQueda) Syrian rebels? The blowback off that alone could have had them at the gallows. That was strait up treason guys - we were and still are fighting them. I think they had no choice....... Syria was WWIII............. aaaaannnnnddddd we lost. What is Putin doing dicking around in Ukraine? Putin likes to come off as an over the top man's man and this Ukraine thing just seems like small potatoes for a guy like that. His spies could have stopped or taken over that shit at any time. I think this Ukraine business is just some type of MASSIVE kabuki theatre to inform the whole world at once of just who won WWIII. Explains how Putins counter coo has been this bloodless as well. The Russians and Chinese read the Project for the New American Century and came up with their own plan and it worked. The best offense is a great defense. Without our carriers to project force the USA is cut out of the game. The us dollar can no longer be supported by the military alone. All our puppet govts can see the light at the end of the tunnel and just to be sure they do -- Putin is putting on the worlds greatest show.

This would mean - No upcoming war(unless Obummer is suicidal)

WalMart and Target are going to increase prices a lot real soon.

Gas is gonna get really expensive too.

This also explains DHS and militarized LEOS to some degree - after all the govt. knows 100% some crazy times are on the way. I think the DHS is really a domestic army designed to defend America and help police after the crash. It was possible that we could have been invaded once successful counters to our Navy were developed - especially with our military spead all across the world.

Also explains NSA citizen spying to some degree. Their real side job is to help Washington control the populace and monitor opinion to prevent total breakdown as the new reality arrives.

Also explains that dumb ass speech that Obummer gave yesterday - They knew this was coming but Putin moved the transition date way up without warning :)

Lastly why didnt we just build better bombs ect.? China took all our industry. That was what made us great. Without it innovation is much much slower. Industrial might makes military might period. Thats why. Dont worry if all goes well we will be doing great in another 10 - 15 years. Back to work on productive projects and much happier I think.


The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

Sun Tzu

I bet The Art of War is Vlad's bedtime reading and even if it's not, he borrowed plenty from ancient Chinese general playbook. Excellent reading btw along with Machiavelli's Prince.

It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver.

Niccolo Machiavelli


Putin just did this to the US war machine. http://youtu.be/3OTn6Hv3mIo


LawsofPhysics's picture

Pretty good analysis. Bankrupt nations (ethically and financially) really need to think long and hard about how they spend the remaining capital and resources they have at their disposal.

Stuart's picture

The US backed and supported directly and indirectly the ousting of a Pro-Russian Govt in Ukraine, completely mis calc'd the Russian response - which a 6 year old could've predicted btw, and now it is blowing up.   Thanks Ms. Nuland. 

walküre's picture

I don't buy that. Too easy to misunderstand.

Clowns on Acid's picture

Nuland is easy to understand, as is Samatha Powers and Cass Sunstein.

Hephaestus's picture

Who could possibly believe that Putin never saw it coming. That crap was going on for months and his spies could get in their cars and drive over for day trips!

Tracerfan's picture

I could have predicted it at age 5.

It's called arrogance and hubris.  Nuland is the poster child.

silvermail's picture

In the title of the article 100% propaganda. Should be as follows:
Valid, legitimate and democratically elected Ukraine President Yanukovich Has Asked Putin To Use Military Force In Ukraine.

CNN believes that, the so-called "new government of Ukraine, is illegitimate.


Lost Word's picture

He was removed by the Parliament.

silvermail's picture

You wanted to say "part of illegal rebels parliament" and via act that contrary to the Constitution prescribed impeachment.

john39's picture

If only bankrupt nations were actually in control of their own policies...

IridiumRebel's picture

"gives up hegemony and enters into economic decline like all ex-empires."

This is the option that will be had as it is wanted. America is too rich and we need across the board serfdom.

Truther's picture

Ukraine is the misleading arm. It's all about the dollar. The death of the dollar which has been the plan all along. Ukraine is just a distraction as there is nothing to gain from it.

snowlywhite's picture

dude, you're deluded...


what exactly could the russian army do to us army? leaving aside the funny idea of russia and china being long term allies...

Hephaestus's picture

They can stomp our carriers. The carriers are critical to project force. The Army can only be in so many wars at once. With carriers we were able to attack and bomb many dictators simultaneously to keep them in line. The psyke factor of having a monster warship off your coast is also a factor. Without them we are all but toothless.

snowlywhite's picture

I see; that because the gazzilion of airfields in Europe and SE Asia aren't be enough? You need a carrier...


wtf folks, stop playing star wars...


l.e. - let me make it easier. Every neighbour of Russia hates them; 'xcept two. One is Belarus; the other, russians are just solving the problem. The last thing it'd lack in such a scenario are airfields...

Hephaestus's picture

The point is the Russian and Chinese now have a tech. advantage that will not go away! We ruined ourselves when all the factories went over seas. Star wars no S400 > Western stealth! Its as simple as that. When you want to win a fight find a way to hit the opponent while it is imppossible for him to return the favor.

snowlywhite's picture

I see; so the key in a world war is a sam battery.


guess the field is all yours...

Hephaestus's picture

the key in a world war is a sam battery. No the key is to be able to produce better weapons and have better stategy. Do we have an effective counter to the DF-21 or Russian equivalent? If so tell me! Lotta disgreement with no reason info or links. Does the west still hold military supremacy? I think not. Why am I wrong.

ex. US has the DF fucker 129 and it kicks the crap outa that chinee stuff see www.merica.wartoys.

snowlywhite's picture

no; the key in a war is 700bln budget vs 70bln budget. Tends to make other things pretty moot. GDP not technology; that's why Germany lost ww2 despite having a headstart...


No single weapon will ever win a war in this age. And you don't need a DF21! There's no russian carrier to sink and there's barely one reconditioned crap the chinese have! Jesus, you have no clue even if that weapon actually works. Sometimes I hate discovery channel...

Tracerfan's picture

Most of the $700 billion is for personnel, pensions, healthcare and overpaid, overnumbered military brass.  And don't forget the diversity training add-ons.

Russia and China are spending their money more wisely.

silvermail's picture

"And you don't need a DF21! There's no russian carrier to sink and there's barely one reconditioned crap the chinese have!"

Mr. McCain, I found you! Yes, it's you with your schizophrenia.


silvermail's picture

"the key in a war is 700bln budget vs 70bln budget."


If the fools in the West will be stupid enough to pick up the Russians money via war, then the next day , they will be able to buy oil and gas only for gold. Checkmate.

And US budget is zero.

Element's picture



"No the key is to be able to produce better weapons and have better stategy."

Weapons? No way.

Soviet v Finland

Germany had many better weapons in WWII.

US had better weapons in Vietnam.

US had better weapons in Afghanistan.

I could list dozens of instances of this.

See Israel verses Arab armies, then see Hezbollah verses Israel.

It is not the dog in the fight, it is the fight in the dog, every single time.


If you want to know why Putin is messing around with Crimea, see my comment down the bottom. (That is strategy).

snowlywhite's picture

if by dog you mean getting your country trashed and the other guy leaving after he gets bored of beating you, than yeah, guess you're right... Still, seems a pretty counterproductive way of "winning" a war. Because sure as hell there was not much left in Vietnam after US withdrew, or will it be now after they leave Afghanistan, or after SU withdrew from Afghanistan.


Israel wiped the floor with the arabs each time and ffs, hezbollah still uses katyushas(Stalin would be proud, I suppose). Beside the Israeli right wingers(which no doubt love them), their score is less than crap(ok, it's impressive in screwing up Lebanon, but none that matters actually cares about Lebanon).


regarding your other post - "Contrary to my guesstimate a few days ago, it now seems Russia is going to annex Crimea.

If the West's incentive to undermine Ukraine is to remove the black sea fleet's influence and easy and organized rapid access to the Med, then Putin can remove that western incentive, via simply annexing Crimea - permanently."


even my dog knows Crimea will end in Russia(supposin' I'd have a dog). But: Russia has about 400km of Black Sea coast without Crimea, so they already had room for 10 other naval bases. Problem is they kinda lack the ships. The Black Sea fleet is an antiquated thing good to fight Georgia; and Russia was never a real naval power(and they don't have any reason to be either, beside nuclear subs, since they kinda lack the seas). So wth would the West want to drive them out of Sevastopol?


You can use a fleet in 3 circumstances:

1. attack; project power aggresively(kinda like US is doing) and invade from the sea. You need carriers. Black Sea fleet has none;

2. defend in the open sea from such an invasion. You still need carriers, Black Sea fleet still has none;

3. defend close to your coast from an invasion. Given the amount of land border Russia has, noone in his right mind will invade Russia by sea(nor did anyone have this fancy idea throughout history).


btw - if anyone wants to be an armchair strategist, don't you think you should at least look at the world map and borders?

Element's picture

Your 'analysis' and 'points' seem to deliberately avoid the point, so I'm not sure it's worth responding as a distorted critique, sans any contribution to understanding at all, is not exactly enticing, nor to be encouraged.

Nevertheless ...

What option was there for North Vietnam? Surrender? Are you sure you even understand why wars are fought? The Vietnamese made it very clear that no matter what the US did they were never going to give up because for them it was about kicking out European imperialists, and reuniting their ancient homeland once again. So the fight was definitely in that dog. The US withdrew in utter shame and dismal defeat (I watched it, it was beyond FAIL).

And for what remained of Vietnam, this was certainly worth seeing. Neither the French imperialists, nor the US ideologically-driven morons would mess with them again. Several years later they even saw off the PLA on their northern border (1979), and even cleared out Pol Pot's regime in Cambodia. They have nothing to be ashamed of there, and they were still VERY FAR from defeat.

If the US was ever going to win by superior firepower it would have been over by ~1967.

"if by dog you mean getting your country trashed and the other guy leaving after he gets bored of beating you, than yeah, guess you're right"

Hmm ... rather than enquire if you are a complete idiot, at this point, I'll go ahead and demonstrate that you are a complete idiot.

A military is ordered into action on the basis of Foreign Policy strategic objectives, or a National Security purpose. In this case, to prevent the spread of communism from China into IndoChina, via North Vietnam, plus its spread from there south. So it's not a matter of being "bored" from beating someone, and going home, which only a genuine cretin would post.

Given the US lost 55K men out of 700K, in a spiral-escalation that completely failed to break the Norths' ability to make highly-effective war on US forces, and the US evacuated Siagon chaotically under intense incoming fire, during a full-blown rout, I find your characterisation deeply dishonest.

Consequently, you will get no respect.

 It is a matter of achieving the Govt's policy aims and the military objectives, which the US military failed to do, and that is uquestionably a US military defeat. And given Vietnam took the south in hours, and then Laos and Cambodia also became communist, so US Foreign Policy was also a total failure and utter national defeat.

This was a shattering defeat which the entire world watched, and was utterly stunned at the shear scope and cost of this unimaginable failure of the US War machine, and all of its staggering technology, at the hands of people wearing sandals and pointy hats. The blow was so great to the US esteem that it took ten years for the US to come out of a wave of national depression. So don't you try and pretend to me that the US 'won', and then walked away, the US lost completely, in every possible way in Vietnam. So either you were born since those events, and don;t have a clue what you are talking about, or you are a hopeless and idiotic liar.

Both seem equally possible.

Afghanistan was a broken failed-state at the start, and it will collapse soon after the US war-economy leaves. It remains to be seen what occurs thereafter, but for sure the US is trying to downplay failure. All the modern systems and weapons failed, the entire enterprise was misconceived, from the outset.

What I was saying about Israel was the fight was in the Israeli-dog, and it was not in the Arab-dog (however Syria gave the IDF a hell of a thrashing several times). In 2006 it was the other way around, Hezbollah's scrappy fight startled and demoralized Israel, which was forced to avoid combat against a force which the IDF was not prepared to further risk trying to beat. So the air force and artillery ended up employing incredibly cowardly attacks on suburbs with 2,000 lb bombs and heavy shells. That was disgraceful in the extreme, plus bred a new wave of enemies to come.

As for the Black Sea fleet being "antiquated", have you looked at the age of many US ships today? That Perry class frigate which grounded in Turkey during the winter Olympics for instance, it was an antiquated SM1 frigate, built in the late 70s, just like much of the Russian fleet.

Sevastopol is a large sheltered port and the closest to the Med. The rest of the Russian coast to the west is unable to accommodate a similar major naval base, as those harbors are all much smaller and less sheltered, surounded by steeper terrain and limited free space, and would require a massive investment to engineer the facilities needed to make any of them suitable. But even then those are much further steaming-time from the Med.

Are you really so incapable of grasping the practical operational factors of such a fleet and its geography?

For your information it is the current policy of the Russian navy to design and build vessels that will remain in commission and will be upgraded several times over at least 50 years. You can go read about that, in your own time, so don't waste mine with your ignorance and apparent prejudices. The Russian navy is currently replacing and expanding its fleet faster than it did during WWII so update your ignorance on that, while you are at it.

And also read the Russian maritime doctrine as it will at least give you some general clue regarding the heavy emphasis Moscow is placing on global naval capability and deployed availability and sustainability, and why it is currently building new naval bases in other parts of the world to that end. And the role of the Black Sea Fleet within that, might just dawn on you.

I must say you do not seem to have virtually any idea about the Russian Navy's status, nor naval matters in general, so I won't bother saying more as you're clearly ill-equipped to follow.

Your assertion that a navy can only use its fleet in the 3 circumstances you listed, points to an extraordinarily low-level of tactical aptitude, knowledge or discernment.

But if you are going to recklessly talk such low-brow utter horse shit to people about maps and geography (which I am very familiar with), and posit aircraft carriers as a general tactical boon, look at a map of the coastline of Vietnam. You'll notice it's border is ~50% coastal exposure.

Now look up the USN naval air power and carrier operations during the Vietnam war, then try to explain to your fantastically confused, deluded, dumb-as-dogshit cerebral ganglia, how it is, that with a decade of coordinated strike-packages and adhoc interdiction, with all of that coastline, and a total lack of geographic strategic depth in the hinterland,plus the extraordinary number of carriers and aircraft involved during that war, and number of attack sorties flown - and let's not even mention the heavy-weapon overdoses from Clark and Guam ... so ...



Any ideas? ... oh great carrier attack tactical guru?



You've defined the essence of an incognizant fucking dolt - well done.

Now don't give up your day job, which I dearly hope is not on a USN carrier as that would obviously be a feeble and dodgy combination.


This is Fight Club and you've just demonstrated a capacity to tangle with me that is non-existent. Do not waste my time with such oral effluvium or your special-needs learning disabilities.



Aye  ;)

Winston Churchill's picture

No stranger than the USSR, and the USA during WWII.

Temporary bedfellows that fall out after 'mission accomplished'.

The USA is no less a threat to the world ,than nazi Germany was, in its current form.

I have relatives in many countries, and that is a developing consensus , I can assure you.

walküre's picture

Don't underestimate Ivan. Depending on where your relatives are, they will agree as they've likely had the misfortune of being raped or pillaged by Ivan not only once but several times during the history of their nation.

Winston Churchill's picture

Never said there were any good choices.

Just stating the facts from my viewpoint, which is smack in

the middle of the Atlantic.

No blinders or jingoism right there.

walküre's picture

Are you on a boat?

smack in the middle of the Atlantic.


snowlywhite's picture

exactly; and since currently Ivan has some economic and, most important demographic, problems... the favour might be returned in a not so distant future. If you look through history, I count Iran and China among those that "love" Ivan very much.


Putin lost Ukraine. How he managed to be so stupid, frankly I have no clue. Heck, ukrainans were weird enough to actually like russians; but than, near defaults tends to piss people off... Anyway, doubt UE or US invested more than a pitance in supporting that revolution, since none of them actually wants Ukraine(maybe the Germans, though they already have enough mouths to feed). Now he saves face by getting Crimea(otherwise, I guess his own people would give him the boot).


Easier than this, I don't know how to put it.



walküre's picture

Putin is not able to keep up with the times. He's limited. I wouldn't say he's retarded as that would probably be an insult to retarded people. His playbook is old and dusty and it's just not working anymore. Dreadfully obvious how it's all going to shit in front of his eyes.

Remember that 5th ring at the Olympic opening ceremony wouldn't light up? He must have been pissed and sending the technician straight to Gulag. That was indicative of Putin right there. Only 80% capacity, 80% working as it should.

Tell me if I'm being too generous?

snowlywhite's picture

I'd say tad on the generous side ;)


on the other hand, don't think he has much room either. Remember how Akhmetov and Co started leaving for London? It stressed the mafia; if your collegue in Kiev starts to run, how would you feel as a russian oligarch? No mafia, no Putin.


actually, it's pretty funny to picture those ex KGBs fleeing to London and Monaco as the white russians did 100 years ago. But that's why I like history; usually it's pretty funny :p


l.e. - ok, maybe the white russians were better educated; or maybe I'm a romantic :p

l.l.e - surprise, surprise, apparently Ukrainians are out of luck. Plus ca change plus que la meme chose, right?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a99fc964-a189-11e3-a29e-00144feab7de.html#axzz... - "His comments come one day after two other oligarchs – billionaires Igor Kolomoisky and Serhiy Taruta – accepted offers from the new leadership to head regional administration". There, we have it settled gentlemen ;)

silvermail's picture

"and since currently Ivan has some economic and, most important demographic, problems..."


and since currently USA has some economic and, most important demographic, problems...


Obama lost Ukraine. How he managed to be so stupid, frankly I have no clue. Heck, ukrainans were weird enough to actually like russians; but than, near defaults tends to piss people off... Anyway, doubt Russia or China invested more...



snowlywhite's picture

ever thought to make a bot? would allow you to make a douche of yourself that much faster.

silvermail's picture

You propose to make a bot for automatic responses to another bot?

silvermail's picture

"they will agree as they've likely had the misfortune of being raped or pillaged by Ivan not only once..."

As well as in Iraq U.S. soldiers raped many times underage girls and killing their parents, is not it?

silvermail's picture

"what exactly could the russian army do to us army?"

Destroy completely. Together with the U.S. and the entire globe. And with 4x power reserve.

Lost Word's picture

And Russia destroyed also, at the same time.

That is why it is called MAD.

walküre's picture

Don't forget GW scam or "Climate Change" and CO2 targets, Kyoto and all this nonsense that captured our minds and hearts (and attention):

If we had not wasted over a decade policing the world (asset stripping for bankers and oil CO's) maybe we could have been ahead. If we had not given China our whole industrial base perhaps we could have kept up.

Bottom line is that America has been abused and wrecked by the corporate elite, the bankers and the American oligarchy for too many years. The end result is what we have today.

Why didn't the US ever organize military exercises with China when they're so important to our finances and vv? Why have we allowed to make the decline of our middle class wealth a one way street for the rise of the Chinese middle class? Just so that the elite could get richer and richer at everyone else's expense?

snowlywhite's picture

you don't follow up very much, do you? You can chose between feudalism in the US and feudalism in China. The chinese middle class is as much a unicorn as I'm afraid it'll soon be the US middle class.


I see a globalized econ. with rich dudes and poor dudes; definitely no middle class in between. I see wealthy chinese and russian - guess you can call them mobsters - stashing their cache and sending their children in the West. Even more, buyin' lotsa properties in the West(guess that comes with experiencing the wrath of the people more recently than in the West, which makes them better hedgers). If things would be so great in China, wth everyone with money from there runs to hide it in the West?


so - you can chose between slavery corp. in the West(that means writing a gazillion pointless mails, work 10h/day doing nothing in an office except killing what's left of your brain and licking the butts of those above you) or for straight slavery in the east(butt licking obviously stays).

walküre's picture

I chose 3

Farming in the US and feeding my family in a somewhat free place. You know who will survive financial and economic Armageddon in America? The Indians and Eskimos for the most part. They will go back to doing what they were doing before and revert back to that simple lifestyle. As long as there's no nuclear fallout of course.

Quantum Nucleonics's picture

What an incoherent mess.  By the way, laser is spelled with an "s"

Mussolim's picture
08:44 GMT:

Russia will abandon the US dollar as a reserve currency if the United States initiates sanctions against the Russian Federation, Presidential advisor Sergey Glazyev told Ria Novosti news agency.

“We will be forced to go to another currency and create our own payment and settlement system. We have a fantastic trade and economic relationship with our partners in the east and south, and we’ll find a way to not only reset our financial dependence on the US, but come out from these sanctions with an advantage for ourselves,” he said.

“Efforts to declare sanctions against the Russian Federation will result in the collapse of the US financial system, which will entail the end of US dominance in the world financial system.”


SOURCE: RUSSIAN TELEVISION - http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/

Urban Redneck's picture

I find a subsequent announcement more intriguing, particularly in terms of the long game-

12:04 GMT: The European Union "only facilitated the conflict in Ukraine" when it announced that "the Association Agreement is incompatible with the Customs Union agreement between Kiev and Moscow”, former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told the Europe-1 radio station in an interview.

NATO also came under fire from the former Chancellor, who said the "alliance does not have a political purpose, and its actions do not help to build trust, but on the contrary, create more and more concerns". Measures to solve the Ukrainian crisis "should be solely diplomatic," the Chancellor believes.

Thanks for the link.

Theta_Burn's picture

Obama and co say Russia has violated international law with this incursion.

Does this now make it legal?

WTFx10's picture

Sure it does we do it all the time ,so do the israeli's its PERFECTLY legal.

James-Morrison's picture

Our analogy would be if Texas or some other "ethnic" state tried to sesede from the US.

I bet Obama would respond like Putin. Especially if Putin was backing the Texans.

silvermail's picture

"Obama and co say Russia has violated international law with this incursion."

Obama is a great expert on international law? LOL