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A Tale Of Two Winters

Tyler Durden's picture


Presenting the US car market this cold, stormy, sunny, dry, and rainless winter according to "The Haves... and The Have-Nots..."


The Haves...


And The Have-Nots...


It appears the 1% don't feel the cold (or wet) weather?\

What is supremely clear from this data is - if you want to sell cars, raise prices...


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Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:37 | 4503259 Hippocratic Oaf
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Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:37 | 4503260 HedgeAccordingly
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 Charles Plosser  Stock market rising mostly on ‘fundamentals.’

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:41 | 4503281 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I would be curious to know about Hyundai's sales.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:34 | 4503548 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

Only cars on the MID ATLANTIC roads today...


- Dick Dastardly & Muttley in the MEAN MACHINE

- The Slag Brothers in the BOULDERMOBILE

- The Gruesome Twosome in the CREEPY COUPE

- Professor Pat in the CONVERT-A-CAR

- The Red Max in the CRIMSON HAYBAILER

- Sergeant Blast and Private Meekly in the ARMY SURPLUS SPECIAL

-The Ant Hill Mob in the BULLETPROOF BOMB

- Penelope Pitstop in the COMPACT PUSSYCAT

- Luke & Blubber Bear in the ARKANSAS CHUGABUG

- Rufus Roughcut & Sawtooth in the BUZZWAGON


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:41 | 4503579 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well, I do not know what you find on Brazilian roads now, but I will try to give you guys a report on cars in Peru in the coming days (nos vamos alli pronto, pezez!).

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:47 | 4503608 HyBrasilian
HyBrasilian's picture

On the current path... soon... EVERY car will be "courtesy of Fred's TWO FEET"


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:51 | 4503626 DoChenRollingBearing
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Well, that's why I have a bike!

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:41 | 4503879 cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

I sold my 2 cars a few years ago and now use a longboard and the Subway. I even splurged on a deluxe (local Brooklyn made) longboard model to the tune of $350. They even took fiat currency (heh heh)

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:25 | 4503773 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Don't forget Peter Perfect in the TURBO TERRIFIC

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 23:09 | 4505000 brown_hornet
brown_hornet's picture

Obozo in the CHOOMWAGON

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:37 | 4503564 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Thanks, seek, you da man!

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:38 | 4503264 Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

Duh obamas socialist paradise made everyone rich so nobody wants crappy gm cars anymore everyone is riding in ferraris

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:08 | 4503703 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

EBT car

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:38 | 4503265 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:12 | 4503447 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

It's the weather!   All those GMs, Fords, Chryslers, etc are sold in the frigid fly-over states.  The Maseratis, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches etc. are all sold in places like Beverly Hills, the Amalfi Coast, the South of France, Monaco, Miami, and Cote d'Azur ... the warm places.


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:40 | 4503277 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

my guess is that 90% of the 1% can't afford porsche or maserati ... and 99% of that 1% can't afford ferrari or lamboghini ...

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:18 | 4503478 seek
seek's picture

You're not far off at all.

IRS cut-off for top 1%: $389K. After tax income: about $275K

Price for a new Ferrari FF: about $280K

So a new ferrari is actually more than an entire year's after tax for someone just on the 1%er threshold. Even financed it's a stretch once you account for depreciation. Add in maintenance which is fucking insane, plus insurance and yeah, being in the 1% won't cut it. Maybe the 0.25% or so.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:48 | 4503613 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

A couple in our condo building owns a Ferrari.  The first time I met the guy (call it two years ago), he told me that his wife was from Venezuela.  "Ah, Venezuela", I mentioned, "I hope you guys don't have any money down there..."

He replied, "No, we have almost nothing down there..., well our house in Caracas..., and our house at the beach."

[Yow! I think, this guy is worth MORE than an order of magnitude more than we are...]


So, yes, I think seek has it right, there are several "levels" of wealth among the 1%.  I guess if you have BIG $$$, there is always a fairly easy way to spend it...

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:52 | 4503633 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Surely you jest... Using the bottom of the IRS threshold is hardly definitive... All I know is that there is a lot of $$$ rattling around in the economy and I lose count of all the high-end vehicles I see on the road every day... 

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:15 | 4503730 ATM
ATM's picture

So the average working stiff makes $40k/yr yet buys a $40k Ford F150 FX2 or a 40k Honda Accord. It's called making payments.....

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 19:05 | 4504036 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

I know a guy who makes twice that who bought a used car for less than $15,000.  Come to think of it, his avatar looks alot like mine.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 19:56 | 4504256 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

So a new Ferrari FF goes for around 13,000 ounces of silver.

A brand new 1962 Ferrari 250GT cost around 12,500 ounces of silver. 

FF is definitely better than that 250GT.

What a difference 52 years makes.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 21:00 | 4504450 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

I disagree.

I would take a 250GT anyday over an FF.

Then again I would take an M1A2 Abrams over a Ferrari as well.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 22:19 | 4504755 drstrangelove73
drstrangelove73's picture

I could own a Ferrari
But it would look stupid in my garage,at work(yes,I work,55-60 hrs a week)
3year old Nissan z.0-60 in 4.8

Tue, 03/04/2014 - 01:30 | 4505363 Canoe Driver
Canoe Driver's picture

You guys are all wrong. Some people buy these high-end cars for cash, and some of them don't have very high incomes. Assets and inheritance are unrelated to income. Many more are financing, also with only moderate incomes. There is also the attitude that the cars are investments because they hold their value.

One of my big regrets is not buying a Ferrari in 1999. At the time, I had no earned income at all, I was a student with some investments. 

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:41 | 4503278 zelator
zelator's picture

Or as The Decider has put it: "The haves and the haves more.." are the only buyers now.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:45 | 4503292 economessed
economessed's picture

So, is Ferrari channel-stuffing too?  Are the dealers piling the inventory in the vacant parking lots of K-Marts?

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:23 | 4503494 seek
seek's picture

No, I just checked my local Ferrari dealer, they had ONE unit on the lot, and it was sold. Everything else they had was Maserati (which they had a LOT of) and the Maserati's definitely had 1%er capable prices (120-150K).

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:45 | 4503293 Cacete de Ouro
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Alfa Romeo Disco Volante by Touring - A customized Alfa 8C

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:48 | 4503304 youngman
youngman's picture

I bet its the NFL..NBA and the Pot store owners in Colorado and Washington..

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:51 | 4503320 headhunt
headhunt's picture

At least the pot store owners will have to keep buying new cars.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:03 | 4503393 11b40
11b40's picture

Why is that?

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:10 | 4503440 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Do you smoke pot and forgot or did you never smoke pot?

You can't smoke, drive and stay on the road

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:53 | 4503640 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Cough, cough, horse shit...


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 20:54 | 4504435 headhunt
headhunt's picture

1st rule of fight club

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:20 | 4503760 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Speak for yourself there trusty.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 20:53 | 4504433 headhunt
headhunt's picture

1st rule of fight club

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 13:34 | 4525145 11b40
11b40's picture

I can, so speak for yourself.  Or, do you simply not know what you are talkng about?

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:17 | 4503472 Comte d'herblay
Comte d'herblay's picture

If you've gotten a really good high, it's difficult to remember the last word you spoke, where on the map you are,  let alone where you parked your car. 


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:48 | 4503305 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

The motor car being the coolest item one could own in the 20th century is wearing off her appeal. Have a barns
full of quite a collection of vintage cars I`am selling off for some time now and got to the point I don`t have to drive
anything anymore.

Plan to keep the odd 4WD truck and a jeep for the farm and
get rid of the lot. God thanks the prices are better then ever.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:52 | 4503322 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Keep one around that got no computer, GPS or any electronics.  If it's got an old points-style ignition, so much the better for being able to drive around the day after an EMP blast.  I'm keeping my old Malibu forever.... just in case.  When all the modern cars have their circuit boards fried out of them, the 'Bu will still run.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:14 | 4503460 quartshort
quartshort's picture

Where are you going to get gas? Every pump I've seen for the last 12 years has converted to a 'puter system.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:29 | 4503520 W74
W74's picture

You think a man with that mentality wouldn't think ahead to have a little fuel stored up?

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:55 | 4503646 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Gasoline has a shelf life, even when treated... 

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:40 | 4503878 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Rotate your stock frequently pre EMP and then the day you actually need it, you should be good for a while. A little Stabil won't hurt either.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:49 | 4503309 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Small number of rich, large number of poor and just enough middle class to service the rich.  As it has been in most societies throughout most of human history.  A giant reversion to the mean in progress as we speak.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:49 | 4503313 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

those cars are totally practical for pothole strewn roads lined with criminal hordes

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:49 | 4503314 headhunt
headhunt's picture

GM sales are actually down 12% as per ZH previous post.

GM sales to Dealers up but actual GM sales down.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:56 | 4503344 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Meh who cares, Tesla is at least, AT LEAST 50% over valued yet had a fifteen dollar reversal to the upside.   They are not even profitible but have a market cap basically equal to GM. 


Its all smoke and mirrors. 

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:59 | 4503376 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Tesla is the tulip bulb investment of the global warming left.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:50 | 4503316 optimator
optimator's picture

Me thinks the 1% think the dollar will buy less foreign cars in future.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:56 | 4503351 DavrosoftheDaleks
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I don't buy cars, but when I do, it'll end with an "I".

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 19:01 | 4504014 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture


Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:57 | 4503356 Overleveraged_a...
Overleveraged_and_Impatient's picture

As a salesman at a Chevy Cadillac dealership in the northeast I can tell you that Jan and feb have been tough months for new vehicle sales. While the weather certainly did slow momentum it's the eroding middle class which is really slowing down sales.


I am optimistic for march as the spring - summer months are always better for us. However I'd really prefer to grow my account more and trade forex for a living...

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:07 | 4503418 headhunt
headhunt's picture

My last GM Yukon cost $42k a similar new GM is $62k - crazy.

$62k is 47oz of gold or 3000oz of silver.

F' the GM unions and the stock they stole from me.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:28 | 4503518 Overleveraged_a...
Overleveraged_and_Impatient's picture

A new Yukon Denali is about that, yes. You can get a used 2013 with low miles modest but solid equipment for under $40,000. 

Gold is nice and will appreciate more over in the future, but you can not use it for transporting people or goods.

I am not a union member, I work on salary plus comission. I opted out of my benefits to take more $$$ instead.



Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:48 | 4503603 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Always the salesperson trying to bring home the dinero - I can appreciate that.

Sorry OL but the cost of a nice GM vehicle has gotten crazy and I personally cannot get by what 0 and the GM unions did to me and continue to do to the taxpaying public.

They are essentially a branch of the IRS and are taxing every US citizen to fund their pensions and healthcare benefits and what a coincidence they are pardoned from being required to use 0-care.

Keep stacking

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:57 | 4503655 Muppet
Muppet's picture

A Dodge listed $52k costs $30k after $10k trade and coupon from USAA car buying service.   

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:26 | 4503503 W74
W74's picture

You should sell real estate, lol.

Looked up one of the local ladies in online court records and she was foreclosed upon (3,500 sq. ft. house) in 2009 and filed Bankruptcy in 2010.

Anyone looking to buy from a middlewoman like that?

But hey, she's been driving a Lexus (leased most likely because her vehicle information goes from 09 to 11 to 13) based on her traffic tickets, failure to register, suspended licenses, and failure to show registration to the officer.

So that's good right, leased Lexuses?

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 16:59 | 4503371 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

Fucking beautiful!!!!!


You catch this Barry????


Oh wait, I bet you're too busy to look at this because your jerking off Putin in hopes that he leaves Ukraine.


Fuck Barry - leave the fucking White House NOW!!!!! YOU USELESS TIT!!!!!

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:52 | 4503636 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

I guess we need a cash for clunkers program to pull demand forward.

Plus --

Interest rates are too high  - get to work Janet.   

Credit is too tight - many unemployed don't even qualify for a loan!






Mon, 03/03/2014 - 17:57 | 4503658 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

Cash for clunkers 2 coming soon.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 18:04 | 4503689 yogibear
yogibear's picture

With no debt ceiling or limit expect Barry to propose cash for clunkers within the next few months. Barry is in a spending frame of mind. Expect over $18 trillion in debt very soon

Zimbabwe or bust.

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 19:06 | 4504042 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

WordPress, bitchez!

Mon, 03/03/2014 - 20:13 | 4504306 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I've got three vehicles that are fully paid for, do not intend to buy another for a very long time.

1. 1998 Ford Ranger

2. 2004 Ford Lightning

3. 2006 Suzuki M109R

I won't be the one saving the industry. ;-)

Oh yes, they're all still very nice and well maintianed for their age. Even the 98 Ranger still runs like a top, purrs like a kitten. The Lightning, what can you say? Supercharged V-8 premium gas hog. ;-)

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