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Guest Post: Obama And Putin Are Trapped In A Macho Game Of "Chicken"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

The U.S. government and the Russian government have both been forced into positions where neither one of them can afford to back down.  If Barack Obama backs down, he will be greatly criticized for being "weak" and for having been beaten by Vladimir Putin once again.  If Putin backs down, he will be greatly criticized for being "weak" and for abandoning the Russians that live in Crimea.  In essence, Obama and Putin find themselves trapped in a macho game of "chicken" and critics on both sides stand ready to pounce on the one who backs down.  But this is not just an innocent game of "chicken" from a fifties movie.  This is the real deal, and if nobody backs down the entire world will pay the price.

Leaving aside who is to blame for a moment, it is really frightening to think that we may be approaching the tensest moment in U.S.-Russian relations since the Cuban missile crisis.

There has been much talk about Obama's "red lines", but the truth is that Crimea (and in particular the naval base at Sevastopol) is a "red line" for Russia.

There is nothing that Obama could ever do that could force the Russians out of Sevastopol.  They will never, ever willingly give up that naval base.

So what in the world does Obama expect to accomplish by imposing sanctions on Russia?  By treaty, Russia is allowed to have 25,000 troops in Crimea and Russia has not sent troops into the rest of Ukraine.

Economic sanctions are not going to cause Putin to back down.  Instead, they will just cause the Russians to retaliate.

In a letter that he sent to Congress this week, Obama claimed that the Ukrainian crisis is an "unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States."

Language like that is going to make it even more difficult for Obama to back down.

On Thursday, Obama announced "visa restrictions" on "those Russians and Ukrainians responsible for the Russian move into Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula", and a House panel passed a "symbolic resolution" that condemned Russia for its "occupation" of Crimea.

But those moves are fairly meaningless.  Leaders from both political parties are now pushing for very strong economic sanctions against Russia, and there does not appear to be many members of Congress that intend to stand in the way.

If the U.S. does hit Russia with harsh economic sanctions, what is going to happen?

Is Russia going to back down?

No way.

So let's just play out the coming moves like a game of chess for a moment...

-The U.S. slaps economic sanctions on Russia.

-Russia seizes the assets of U.S. companies that are doing business in Russia.

-The U.S. seizes Russian assets.

-The Russians refuse to pay their debts to U.S. banks.

-The U.S. government hits Russia with even stronger sanctions.

-Russia starts dumping U.S. debt and encourages other nations to start doing the same.

-The U.S. gets Europe to also hit Russia with economic sanctions.

-Russia cuts off the natural gas to Europe.  As I noted the other day, Russia supplies more than half the natural gas to a bunch of countries in Europe.

-The United States moves troops into western Ukraine.

-Russia starts selling oil for gold or for Russian rubles and encourages other nations to start abandoning the U.S. dollar in international trade.

Of course the order of many of these moves could ultimately turn out to be different, but I think that you can see the nightmare that this game of "chicken" could turn out to be.

And what would be the final result?

Nothing would be resolved, but the global economy would greatly suffer.

What makes all of this even more complicated is that about 60 percent of the people living in Crimea are actually ethnic Russians, and a majority of the population appears to want to leave Ukraine and be reunited with Russia.  The following comes from a Reuters article...

Crimea's parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum on the decision in 10 days' time in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.

 

The sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, formally under Moscow's rule came as European Union leaders held an emergency summit groping for ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.

The Obama administration is calling the upcoming referendum "illegal" and says that it will not respect the will of the Crimean people no matter how the vote turns out.

But the people of Crimea are very serious about this, and of course they never would be pushing for reunification with Russia if they had not gotten approval from Putin...

The decision, which diplomats said could not have been made without Putin's approval, raised the stakes in the most serious east-west confrontation since the end of the Cold War.

 

The vice premier of Crimea, home to Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol, said a referendum on the status would take place on March 16. All state property would be "nationalized", the Russian ruble adopted and Ukrainian troops treated as occupiers and forced to surrender or leave, he said.

There is no way that the U.S. government is going to accept Crimea becoming part of Russia, and there is no way in the world that Russia is going to back down at this point.  Just consider what geopolitical expert Ian Bremmer of the Eurasia Group recently had to say...

"Russia is not going to back down from Crimea, irrespective of U.S. pressure. Which means if the U.S. wants to find any resolution here, they’re going to have to find a way to come to terms with that. Now that the Crimean parliament has voted — clearly with Russian assent — we’ll have a referendum … and then further militarization of the peninsula by the Russians."

What we need is someone with extraordinary diplomatic skills to defuse this situation before it spirals out of control.

Unfortunately, we have Barack Obama, Valerie Jarrett and John Kerry running things.

What a mess.

So why is Ukraine such a big deal anyway?

In a recent article, Peter Farmer explained succinctly why Ukraine is so incredibly important...

The Ukraine is strategically-important for a number of reasons. It sits astride enormous petroleum and natural gas deposits found in the Black Sea region. The nation is also home to an extensive network of liquid natural gas pipelines which crisscross it; control the Ukraine and you control its pipelines - and thus the flow of energy into the hugely-lucrative European market. Western energy firms such as Exxon-Mobil, BP-Amoco and Chevron are locked in competition with the Russian energy giant Gazprom - for control/exploitation of as-yet-undeveloped petroleum deposits not only in the Ukraine, but in neighboring Poland and Romania. Fracking technologies and other new extraction methods have only added urgency to the competition. Income from fossil fuels development is the lifeblood of the new Russian economy. Threats to the regional hegemony of Gazprom are likely to be treated by Putin and Russia with the utmost urgency and seriousness.

 

The Crimean Peninsula is also home to the Black Sea fleet of the Russian navy, which leases its base at Sevastopol from the Ukrainian government. Since the Black Sea - via the Dardanelles - provides the only warm-water base with access to the Mediterranean Sea - it is of enormous importance to Russia. Its loss would be a crippling blow to the Russian fleet.

 

Finally, the Ukraine - once known as the "bread basket of Europe" - is home to arguably the finest temperate agricultural region in the world. Its topsoil is widely-acknowledged by agronomists to be among the world's best. Control the Ukraine and you control the grainery of Europe - and can exert tremendous leverage upon worldwide grain agricultural commodities prices.

If the U.S. insists on playing a game of brinksmanship over Ukraine, the consequences could be disastrous.

For one thing, as I mentioned above, the status of the petrodollar could be greatly threatened.  The following is how Jim Willie is analyzing the situation...

If the Kremlin demands Gold bullion (or even Russian Rubles) for oil payments, then the interventions to subvert the Ruble currency by the London and Wall Street houses will backfire and blow up in the bankster faces. Expect any surplus Rubles would be converted quickly to Gold bullion. If the Chinese demand that they are permitted to pay for oil shipments in Yuan currency, then the entire Petro-Dollar platform will be subjected to sledge hammers and wrecking balls. The new Petro-Yuan defacto standard will have been launched from the Shanghai outpost. If the Saudis curry favor to the Russians and Chinese by accepting non-USDollar payments for oil shipments, then the Petro-Dollar is dead and buried.

In addition, if Russia starts dumping U.S. debt and gets other nations (such as China) to start doing the same, that could create a nightmare scenario for the U.S. financial system very rapidly.

So let us hope and pray that cooler heads prevail....

But if the United States and Russia do declare "economic war" on each other, all hell could start breaking loose.

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be much hope of anyone backing down at this point.  In an editorial for the Washington Post, Henry Kissinger stated that it "is incompatible with the rules of the existing world order for Russia to annex Crimea."

Very interesting word choice.

So this is the situation we are facing...

-The U.S. government seems absolutely determined to "punish" Russia until it leaves Crimea.

-Russia is never going to leave Crimea, and has promised to "respond" harshly to any sanctions.

Most Americans are not paying much attention to what is going on in Ukraine, but this is a very, very big deal.

In the end, it could potentially affect the lives of virtually every man, woman and child on the planet.

 

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Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:31 | 4523682 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Disagree. Neither one is playing that game.
They're playing a different, far bigger game.
But both are also posturing to a Domestic and a Global Audience.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:34 | 4523688 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Well said.  The owners are playing Risk, and they are gleefully watching as we debate who is playing chess or checkers.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:36 | 4523698 prains
prains's picture

Oligarchs posturing for resources behind a smokscreen of sovereignty and natioanlism

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:46 | 4523722 Fredo Corleone
Fredo Corleone's picture

"You can tell a macho, he has a funky walk
his western shirts and leather, always look so boss
Funky with his body, he's a king
call him Mister Eagle, dig his chains
You can best believe that, he's a macho man
likes to be the leader, he never dresses grand..."

"I've got to be a Macho Man !"

http://www.qualiafolk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/VP.jpg

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:13 | 4523820 john39
john39's picture

It took quite a bit of time and labor for the shadow government to maneuver Eurasia and Oceana into position for a war. Now just need Emmanuel Goldstein to pull a false flag to get the shooting started.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:42 | 4523911 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

This analysis overlooks Turkey closing the Borsphorus and Dardanelles to Russian shipping and Putin going all medieval on them. Go long Geiger counters everyone.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4523975 The Vineyard
The Vineyard's picture

Macho?  I've met transvestites more manly than these two punks.  Bitches.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:25 | 4524193 Four chan
Four chan's picture

dick waggling?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:45 | 4524579 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

its all just a cooperational plan to camoflage the radiation from fukushima

 

let 'em finish, they'll get there

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:55 | 4524588 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Neither can back down, but we can't even afford to move forward.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:02 | 4524281 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

Yeah, Barry don't do macho.
No macho in the Choom gang.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 12:12 | 4524963 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Oh, now you gone and done it.

You besmirched the bare chested Putinsky.

Prepare for the wrath of the curmudgeons, not yet outs, and has beens

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:13 | 4524007 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The Russians are smart enough to see the US endgame: the destruction of Russia.

The Russians are finally telling the US that it will only happen by a nuclear war in which the US is destroyed also. As I've stated before, the US is the aggressor and has been for a very long time, so the US is the villain plain and clear.

Since my teens I have thought that intelligent life was incapable of evolving quickly enough avoid its own annihilation. You would have to kill off the four percent who are psychopaths just to get a slight chance of stopping it.

Most people can modify their behavior through domestication, like some animals, but like those animals, they can never become human.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:13 | 4524156 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I agree with everything you said except that the U.S. is "the villian."  There are more than one.  Russia is one too.  At the moment Russia is the underdog and it's fun to root for the underdog.  But Russia is no shoe shine boy and if it ever gets a leg up it will piss on us peons just like the U.S. is doing.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 14:22 | 4525268 Flybyknight
Flybyknight's picture

The US is clearly the instgator of this crisis as revealed by Victoria Nulands phone call to the US ambassador in Ukraine. Russia is a long way from perfect regarding personal freedom,  human rights etc. but I cannot recall any expansionist incidents from them since Cuba. (Afganistan is a local trouble spot to the Russians.) The USA on the other hand has spread violence destruction and deceit the world over.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 19:13 | 4525992 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

WTF? Transnistria (war on Moldavia by Russia) now an unrecognized enclave occupied by the Russian 14 Army, Cecenia, Georgia and now Ukraine.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:46 | 4523733 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

<Unfortunately, we have Barack Obama, Valerie Jarrett and John Kerry running things.><What a mess.>

Could have been talking about the USSA for the last 5 years!

DaddyO

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:15 | 4523828 prains
prains's picture

Not sure how Deadbrain McCain or HairLip Harry McObomney was going to do you any better in retrospect and going down the list through Bitchlery Clinton, GWG Jeans, and on and on.......where is the dude in this compendium of fools!!!

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:45 | 4524689 11b40
11b40's picture

5 years?  Is your calander broken?  Mine can look back far longer than 5 years.  More like 65 years.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:41 | 4523721 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Meanwhile, the EU sits on its ass sucking its thumb in the corner, with a dirty diaper on, screaming for someone to come "change" it for them.

Man, must suck to be them ;-)

 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:50 | 4523735 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Putin has been planning this for a LONG time.  He set up the pieces just where he wanted them on the board and now he's making his move.  Obama is doing his usual headless-chicken routine because he's in FULL-REACTIONARY mode, caught totally unaware, as per the usual.  Obama WILL admit checkmate on this one eventually (i.e. he'll throw it to the UN or the "international community" and drop the whole subject as they do nothing) becuase the options he has to reverse Putin's actions are so distateful as to be non-starters.  Plus, of course, he's a pussy, which Putin also knows.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:53 | 4523751 prains
prains's picture

but you surmise that this is a political problem when it is not. Politics is the veil which conceals the true motives, everything is about resources and control of them, the rest is to fill chatrooms with distractions.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:56 | 4523762 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Ah yes, when (not if) Russia gets the Crimea, it also gets the territorial waters off the Crimea. And those waters contain...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:09 | 4524153 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Fish.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:04 | 4524285 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

Jimmy Hoffa?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:50 | 4524582 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

a clue for the next idol?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:11 | 4524714 sil3nc3rxr
sil3nc3rxr's picture

Toxic waste?

Oh sorry, forgot it's not in Midwestern US!

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 16:01 | 4525472 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Umm, "boomers" and pipelines?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:59 | 4523770 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

How in the name of God did you get that from what I wrote?  This is OBVIOUSLY about resources.  In particular, the resources that Russia wants (and will get) because Obama & Co. never paid attention to that part of the board and are left, once again, completely flat-footed and without a tenable position to push back or even defend to stalemate.  

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:04 | 4523784 prains
prains's picture

because "pieces on a board" can imply anything especially when you never once used the word resources. too open ended an idea. plus how do know that the Oligarchs behind Obama and the Oligarchs behind Putin aren't playing good cop/bad cop to angle out the Euro Oligarchs from a very prized gas field. Once "Putin" has "control" the contracts can be let to whomever his Oligarchs choose. Maybe some of them will be American? 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:13 | 4523816 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Because "pieces on the board" is a Chess reference.  When you talk about Russian leaders you think in terms of Chess, because that's how they think.  They are born and raised on the game.  They think in terms of multi-faceted attack and defense ALWAYS.  Especially an ex-KGB officer.

The loss to America if Russia drives Europe on the rocks (or gains significant leverage over them) would be far greater than preserving the medium-shitty status quo of a "friendly partner" Europe and exerting our own influence over them.  If you want to bleed somebody, it's a lot easier to do it to a "friend" than somebody who's under the influence of one of your obvious competitors.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:20 | 4523853 prains
prains's picture

for me it all comes down to who the russians ulitmately want to sleep with....the chinese or americans.....this is all subtrefuge about resources and my take on it is the Americans are in on it with the russians because ultimately they will side with each other against the Chinese because they of all are the least trustworthy. Ukraine is a gas play for Oligarchs nothing more.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:35 | 4523894 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Prains, one question;  How do we know that Putin and Obama are not actually on the same team, acting in an elaborate play on the world's stage?  Wouldn't be the first time.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:43 | 4523914 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Bingo!

"I will have more flexibility after the election."

I'd say Barry looks more flexible than a figure skater right now!

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:29 | 4524038 acetinker
acetinker's picture

This is the most worrying thing- I live in North America, but if I were forced to choose a leader between Hillary and Jeb, I'd probably choose suicide.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 04:14 | 4524457 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

no worries then

 

O's America's last CFR elected president

 

 

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 19:51 | 4532650 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Huh, we both got 4 reds- and I hope with all my soul, that you're right.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:54 | 4524587 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

between hellary and Jeb, i take jeb every time. His crime family is way more established. And if i had to look at Hellary for an extended length of time i'd dig my eyes out with a knitting needle.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:08 | 4524351 prains
prains's picture

ace

that's what i've been saying all along??

 

do you speek english

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:17 | 4524658 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Prains, right now you've got 8 red arrows and zero green.  Mine is not among them- If we agree on this, and I do "speek" english, why'd you ask?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:03 | 4524703 11b40
11b40's picture

What is this 'trustworthy' thing you speak of?

 

 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:55 | 4523757 nmewn
nmewn's picture

But he has a pen!!! And a phone! ;-)

Yes, Putin knows, they are brothers in socialist oligarchism that no one seems to grasp. The only difference between them is, Obama is a pussy deep down and Putin knows it.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:04 | 4523785 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Putin let Obama believe they were brothers in socialist oligarchism.  Obama obviously bought it hook-line-and-sinker or wouldn't have been caught on an open mic telling him that he'll have "more flexibility after the elections".  Putin played him for the stupid, short-sighted community organizer he is.  To Obama this just "came out of the blue".  To Putin, this plan was YEARS in the making.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 06:30 | 4524523 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Really?  How would the US react if it was in danger of losing 30% of its energy supply with one swift thump of the emergency stop button?

It was the US government who fermented this crisis with that scrag arse Nuland spending $5bn dollars to sponsor Neo Nazis to over throw a democratically elected government.

The US is trying to corner Putin, what you expect a hard man to do. This was always going to happen one day; the US is running out of third world countries to bomb to oblivion.

 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:49 | 4523742 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The US is starved for a leader.  People admire Putin mostly because of his love of country and manlyness.  What we have here instead is a progressive man-child who was given passes his entire life.  He loathes the country he represents and wants to transform it into some fucking twisted figment of his professorial collectivist imagination.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:56 | 4523761 Babaloo
Babaloo's picture

"People admire Putin (?)"

Who admires Putin? "People" who are too stupid to know any better?
"People" who confuse stupidly aggressive behavior with "manliness?"

His only reason for invading Crimea was to fool people into thinking he has some kind of plan to reunify the old USSR and to appeal to dumbs shits who believe he's some kind of evil genius.

And it seems to have worked on half the people who read this board.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:57 | 4523767 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Compared to Barry, he's a superhero.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:03 | 4523962 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You call yourself a libertarian and you want a strong leader?  That's what I thought.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:56 | 4524115 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

He is saying that millions of other people want a strong leader.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:04 | 4524140 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Oh, it's the other guy and all of the other faux libertarians.

Do you want a strong leader or can we agree that "strong leader" and libertarianism are mutually exclusive?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:00 | 4524592 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

minarchists would require a strong leader but with libertarian social views....

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 12:20 | 4525000 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

You are not arguing with their large head, therefore you must be arguing with their small head....

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:59 | 4523769 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Admire may be the wrong word, but most folks recognize that Putin is a man with a plan, and Obama is a man with a Jarrett. Lately he has added a Kerry and removed a Hillary. I am no fan of Hillary, but she is a better man than Kerry could ever be.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:12 | 4523818 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

 

Lately he has added a Kerry and removed a Hillary. I am no fan of Hillary, but she is a better man than Kerry could ever be.

You know it's bad when it is "She's the worst!  OH SHIT!  He's even worser!"

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:44 | 4523916 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

At least Hillary had a set of balls on her.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:34 | 4523889 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

It's not admiration.  It's respect for being a strong and decisive leader.  Totally lacking in most US stooge politicians.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 03:16 | 4524414 dvfco
dvfco's picture

To me, it is similar to how most non-Americans feel about Castro.  They don't necessarily admire anything he's done.  However, they'll say things like "yeah, but he's got a big set of cajones."  Or, "He smoked a big fat cigar and thumbed his nose at the US."  

People outside the US feel that someone on a tiny island just 90 miles south of the greatest superpower on earth who wasn't afraid to do what he wanted is worthy of some form of respect or admiration, though neither of these words really reflect the feeling I'm trying to express.  Regardless, he metaphorically, whipped his dick out and waved it around, for 50+ years, or 42 years longer than any US President has been in the same post.

It seems people are simply impressed by someone with a set of balls in this world, no matter whether that person is doing good or not.  

Look at all the morons who wear Che t-shirts.  They always seem to be skinny feminine men in their 20s and 30s.  To me, it's their way of trying to pretend they've got a set of balls; they, like Obama, do not.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:35 | 4524060 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

People admire strength, and Putin displays that in spades.  America has become pussy-whipped, a weak horse, a cripple. It's only course of action now is disaster.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:16 | 4524298 stant
stant's picture

its russias pearl harbour , as in naval base, yes he wants  russia to thrive its his job. the us needs that , country first

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:57 | 4523766 prains
prains's picture

"Leaders" are frontmen put there to regurgitate the meme they've been instructed to juice each week like a sham-wow caricature. Neither Putin or Ohum "lead" they simply follow their orders. It's just at this your point in time your american orders really really suck both in substance and style. Much like yourself........

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:03 | 4523783 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Fuck the idea that there's no one to blame because they're all puppets.  I'll set a precendent by hanging all statists to restore liberty.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:09 | 4523804 prains
prains's picture

"frontmen" act for those who want to remain NOT at the front, so why do you assume nobody is behind them. Let me guess...you're american and have been institutioanlized to believe a "leader" is king and has all rights to method and motive. Very child-like........

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:19 | 4523832 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

deleted

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:21 | 4523857 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I understand the front men and the people funding them.  What you need to understand is the power of leadership.  I'm not an American but I understand liberty and how the US constitution was a good attempt at rule by the people.  When all is lost sometimes a new leader rises from the populace who needs to break a few eggs and heads to change the system.  That's progress.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:19 | 4524016 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Here's an example for you of how the neo-nazi's intimidate and eventually take power.  This guy is on the side of western Ukraine, the EU and the US in the battle right now, without a strong force to balance and intervene they are fucked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQakVj7IvZM

 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:41 | 4524227 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So you support taxes or money printing for the MIC for said strong forces to intervene in a country that is across the globe?   You have said that you are not a U.S. citizen, so whose military are you proposing fight this war?  And are you going to pay for it or do you think someone else should pay to fight your desired war?  Shall I call you about your Obamawar on your Obamaphone?  Keep him in President you know, he'll keep Crimea in Urkaine Yo.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:19 | 4523844 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

Blaming the Nazis, and yet you sound like the thugs in Ukraine looking to restore order through death. Read your history, the scaffold is one of the roots of this system. More die from capital today than the state.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:01 | 4524132 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

States have a way of catching up fast and making a cumulative score that's pretty big. Like hundreds of millions, or more, if we scale the 20th century score up to 21st century conditions.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:22 | 4524180 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

I'm not taking sides as I realise it is conditional and situational. However, if we look today at direct violence vs. systemic or economic violence which is worse? In Iraq there were some 500,000 killed by direct violence, and potentially over 1.5 million through economic sanctions. That's three times as many deaths. The Holodomor killed over 8 million in just a couple of years compared to the 5 million during the Holocaust in five years; again nearly three times the amount (although it is near impossible to say anything is worse when things get so bad). And what is war today compared to nuclear waste and pollution?

While war is the continuation of politics by other means, so too can economics be the continuation of war by other means. I'm not saying one is necesarily worse, but the waters can be murky. The state may have some economic runoff, and vice versa.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:39 | 4523903 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

https://www.google.com/search?q=charge+up+san+juan+hill&newwindow=1&hl=e...

it really wasn't a "charge" actually.
And yes "those were his Buffalo Soldiers."

He had to head on down to Brooks Brothers to buy his Uniform as well.
And yes..."those were German Mauser rifles killing his boys." But he was there with them...he wanted the test...the ultimate test...of "his manhood."

Interestingly this taught this man to be very cautious in the use of force.
I had a girlfriend who was a powerful aide to Senator Patty Murray (still current Senator Patty Murray I might add...hope all is well) and my girlfriend use to complain to me that "All Reagan ever did is invade Grenada." (this is from the left side of the aisle btw.)

Doesn't look so bad that that was all he did now. (that came after Lebanon btw...a place where many Marines were killed.)
I do find it interesting that no one has called for Volunteers (paging Tennessee here?) in this "Manichean Struggle" we are (now dis?)engaged in.

This does have the feel of someone "pulling rank" so to speak however.
If this was something other than what was presented...and we all are a rightfully suspicious lot in these here parts...I tip my hat to them. "It is thinking beyond my ability."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambit

Great comment stream..."top shelf ZH"...on a Friday of course.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:56 | 4523765 booboo
booboo's picture

I'm beginning to see World Wars as a planned bar fight with lots of pissing, puking and sucker punches thrown at innocent women and children and what ever the two or three participants end up knocking over and breaking they sit down and divey up the damage and hand the tab to the bystanders as they walk out the door with the spoils. Yalta and Versailles were prime examples. Keynes was a prime player as Wilsons lead looter at Versailles.

 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 03:11 | 4524409 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

"sucker punches thrown at innocent women and children" 

Oh Gimme a break - to try to make something all emotional by bringing children into an event is half acceptable as they are actually innocent. But women? Who are you kidding? Equal rights and all that shit remember, and that includes the *bad* as well as the good. A shame so many blokes forget that point.

If you merely wanted to indicate the innocent then just say so without the additions of groups.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:26 | 4524665 booboo
booboo's picture

You got all your Retard Merit Badges before everyone else right? Just WTF does equal rights have to do with getting fire bombed in Dresden or droned at your sons wedding fucknut? God Damn son, wipe the fucking drool off your face and get in the game.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:11 | 4524713 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

On the contrary. I'm well aware of the horror that occurred in Dresden, and probably know more about the bullshit droning going on than you do. I'm merely pointing out that distinguishing innocent 'women and children' as opposed to ALL the innocents that have been killed is perpetuating a myth that men are somehow exempt from such a status. Call it semantics or whatever you will but the fact remains.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:13 | 4523959 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

What a ridiculous article.

If you threaten someone's vital interests, they will react.

Its not about 'macho posturing'.

But for the reason that the world is full of fools, you can't go out and say that. (You also may not be able to convince people to die for the real motivations underlying your moves.)  So you make up shit.

So the US power structure invades various nations in the name of destroying 'another Hitler' or 'bringing democracy' - - - when it really is about maintaining the worthless funny money dollar & coming down hard on those who are tired of accepting all that paper.

And when the Russians are confronted with NATO eventually being on their back porch, they defend their interests and say all kinds of cover stories too. But not quite as outrageous as those from the US power structure.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:33 | 4524762 11b40
11b40's picture

Thank you, HardAssests.

I hate it when an article starts with a totally false statement, as this one does.

"The U.S. government and the Russian government have both been forced into positions where neither one of them can afford to back down."

 FORCED into  positions?  Please tell me how the US was "forced" into the position we are in?

Were we forced to spend over $5,000,000 in efforts to pull Ukraine away from the Russian orbit?  Were we forced to issue stupid, worthless ultimatums when we really have no effective leverage?  Did we really have to ignore spheres of influence, hsitorical perspectives, and geo-political real-politic and strategic imperatives of Russia?  Are we forced to look like hapless neo-phytes on the world stage?

It is now over 3 days since we heard the leaked phone call implicating the Western Crimean Nazi forces for the snipers who killed over 80 people in Kiev.  Has anyone seen anything about this in the American press?  Even one word?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:09 | 4523991 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

The Obama administration is calling the upcoming referendum "illegal" and says that it will not respect the will of the Crimean people no matter how the vote turns out.

The 0bongo administration worried about something being illegal? Always a first time I suppose.

Won't respect the will of the people no matter how they vote? Ah, now that's the 0bongo we all know.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:39 | 4524680 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Semi domesticated, global audience...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:32 | 4523684 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

There's nothing macho about Food Stamp. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:33 | 4523687 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Russia did not create a phony revolution and real coup in a sovereign country like the USSA/NWO/Soros/EU(SSR)/Zato did.  This is Syria 2 which is connected to Benghazi.

Maybe Michael Snyder should go read Dr. Jim Willie's web site to understand what is really going on.   It is called the death of the dollar.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:38 | 4523694 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Freddie does Jim Willie put a timetable on any of his stuff? 

 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:07 | 4523983 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I did not notice a timetable. My impression is the Ukraine BS by he NWO means that post their failure in Syria that they are getting more desparate.

Dr. Jim Willie seems to know some connected people and his predictions appear to be very good.  I tend to believe what he is saying about the Saudis getting screwed out of their gold.  My guess is they are having fewer and fewer allies.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:24 | 4524189 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

He also seems to know some people pimping for traffic revectoring there from ZH.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:52 | 4523749 Mineral-Invest
Mineral-Invest's picture

Snyder quoted Jim Willie... 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:54 | 4523754 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks, I don't bother to read the Snyder part of the Snyder articles.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:02 | 4524346 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Yep. It's like reading Simon Black. 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:55 | 4523756 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It's Nazi's vs Commies all over again.  It's the duty of all free people to fight both evils.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:04 | 4523788 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

Nope, sorry to burst your bubble but this is capitalist democracy vs. capitalist democracy. If you didn't notice, the nazis and 'communists' are being used as pawns.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:31 | 4523884 nmewn
nmewn's picture

No, you are being used as a pawn.

"We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!" - Gregor Strasser

Cept a strange thing happens to communists, socialists and fascists once they assume power. They become so enamored with themselves, with what they think is the best course for all individuals lives, they think themselves above us and begin exploiting OUR perfomance and responsibilities for THEIR money & wealth.

They become controlling, directing, issuing forth "laws" that the people will not obey, willingly. So force must be applied, so that those in power will not be percieved by their peers as weak or wrong in their opinions, so they can hold on to their own power.

Now this can only stretch so far. We know what happens next...they all get slaughtered and it goes on until everyone drops from exhaustion and picks a another direction.

Something to do with, fairness, compassion and law, which I'm sure still another will sally forth and proclaim he is all for...and it begins again.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:49 | 4523929 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

yep.

AND I EXPECT A HUNDRED DOWN ARROWS THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE THIS FIGHT!

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:39 | 4524070 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

How am I a pawn? I'm not in Ukraine, nor am I in a governmental or economic position in Russia or USNATO.

You do realise that your critique of socialism and fascism is completely in keeping with democracy and capitalism, right? What they think is best for themselves becomes the best for everyone else and so they are 'elected' into the leviathan, into the 'social contract'. If this is all that differentiates, a different word for subsumption to violent systems, then nothing differentiates between the systems - and then they are predicates of each other.

In fact what you say is precisely the logic of Ayn Rand, ultra-capitalism that so many people seem to appreciate. One becomes enamoured with oneself. Her critique of stalinism is that each individual should themselves become a stalinist; greed subsumes greed and so creates a balance. This is to be expeced as democracy is built on the lie of the social contract, the conditions of 'the state of nature' were precisely the conditions of society in civil war, not nature and primitive man. Quite the opposite, it is democracy that seeks isolation through enamoured individuals in the second state of nature. This should be clear to anyone who reads Randian self-enamouration theory.

It seems that democracy develops in precisely the same way, massive war and then a peace treaty demonstrating equality between so many people presenting their enamoured individuality beyond war. But eventually this does not hold and their is another war. 'They become controlling, directing, etc.' as you say, until laws and force are not enough and so war becomes 'necessary'. What Western democratic system was developed outside of this self-enamouration? Wasn't this what the Enlightenment was all about, subsumption of God to the self-enamoured individual spirit?

Incidentally, this is similar to the Guy Fawkes problem. He did not know whose side he was fighting for. And hence, as his image returns, the individuals who don the mask do not know whose side they are fighting for. Indeed, aesthetically they renounce individualism for a collective body, and fight for democracy through an image and system of totalitarianism. Certainly this is understandable given the absurdity of the times, and I don't say this to condemn them - it simply illustrates that political ideologies are not so clear cut, and all systems have their failings. One can never be so certain they are themselves not a pawn, this is perhaps the weakness of individualism more than anything else as it overdetermines the will of the individual.

In short, the rebellion against religion is not necessarily a rebellion for democracy, nor is the rebellion against democracy necessarily a rebellion against religion. What is currently considered to be against democracy may be its developing contradictions. Let's remember that democracy started through war and violenct taking of land which was not necessarily less than fascist and socialist revolutions.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:30 | 4524200 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What is lacking in all books that purport to solve the problems of humanity is a lack of understanding of humanity.  There are no simple solutions.  The complex solution is that We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.  It's not perfect and the guys who wrote knew as much, unlike all of the Marxists, Stalinists, Keynesians, Randians, Hayekians, Misesians, etc.

There is no formula.  There is no simple answer.  There is We the People trying to do justice for ourselves and others in a world full of oligarch sociopaths who want to tell us there are simple solutions.  

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:21 | 4524736 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

I agree with you on the point of there not being books to function as a solution (this is why I generally prefer fiction to philosophy). However, I see that today there is often a lack of critique, and an unwillingness to accept ideas based upon critique. When critiquing society it is important to question the foundations, even of our own espoused ideology. It is the same problem as that of history, if one does not know the history of ideology one is bound to repeat its mistakes. Many today come from a non-ideological position, which has its positive side, but much of the lessons people learn come from the media and its very rudimentary subsumption of logic to opinion. This should be clear in the many individuals who cannot even follow arguments let alone choose between them - a strange phenomenon in a society that prides itself on logic and science. This too will have to be figured out if there is to be a better society.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:55 | 4524803 11b40
11b40's picture

It will take a miracle for this to be 'figured out'.  We are going the wrong direction if we want to increase our learning, logic, and reasoning capacity.

The latest stop on the long ride toward dumbing down America comes from the SAT Board.  They just droped the essay portion from the tests.  So, was the essay portion just too hard for the poor little students who deserve high scores because....well, you know, because..., or have we now reached the point where there aren't enough teachers qualified to critique and grade them properly?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:36 | 4523696 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

I don't buy many of the assertions in this piece.  Sorry, pretty weak sauce here dude.  For one, if their is a free and fair referendum election, subject to sufficient international scrutiny, the will of the people will stand. 

That is the simple answer.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:41 | 4523719 Nehweh Gahnin
Nehweh Gahnin's picture

Yeah.  Voting.  That has worked out real well here in the US.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:36 | 4523697 VD
VD's picture

i can negotiate this, but with idiots like O&co. what's the point¿¿¿

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:37 | 4523700 gdpetti
gdpetti's picture

THe NWO/GPS isn't about energy supplies, it's only about control, domination and the usual power dynamics that Machiavelli wrote down some time ago. Nucelar countries don't go to war, they use proxies, such as our intel agencies use of Al CIAda around the world, but first always comes the economic hitmen, which was fine until recently, as the smart money set know that last call was heard some time ago and it's time to leave the sinking ship or feel the cold sea, just like those on the Olympic, eer excuse me, I forgot, to maintain the illusion for insurance scamming, we have been calling it the Titanic.

Nuc nations don't play 'chicken', not that the psychos in DC won't, but most of the military might have an issue with that, and perhaps why so many of the missile crew has been uncovered having 'errors of judgement' lately and removed from that service.

The 'game' is alot bigger than this sideshow. In the bigtop, money is meaningless, it's always about power.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:07 | 4523705 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Seeing as the Ukraine coalition has been using false flag tactics like hiring snipers to shoot their own people to provoke Western involvement....

How long before Putin blows up one of his own pipelines under the Ukraine and blames it on "radical extremists" and uses it as an excuse to secure the rest of Ukraine? Putin could make it look like he's doing Europe a favor by invading the rest of the Ukraine to make sure Europe's energy interests are safe.

How many Russian troops would be needed to secure every foot of pipeline? Crimea looks like a staging ground if you ask me. It kinda looks like Putin is just putting all of the pieces in place.

Anyone figure this scenario into their "game theory"?

....1 bullet started World War I. 1 match could start World War III

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4523963 Savvy
Savvy's picture

The difference is the media and Putin knows it. Truth never enters into it only perception. Some mercenary blows a Russian pipeline, claims responsibility, admits under torture (headlines say torture in bold of course), he was hired by Russia to blow their own pipeline and Bob's your Uncle.

 

The MSM counts on three things:

Talk is Cheap

Ignorance abounds

Critical thinkers are freaks

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:40 | 4523706 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

This is more like a classical bully x coward stand-off.

The first consistently photoshopped as a rough red neck.

The other was hailed as the first gay president, "not that there's anything wrong with that", and not of a macho variety either.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:28 | 4524611 kurt
kurt's picture

Don't go out on a limb.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:38 | 4523708 Duc888
Duc888's picture

Well, you can only get so macho when you're sportin' a vag. just sayin.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:42 | 4523723 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Does Chaz Bono still have one? He's pretty macho.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:12 | 4524002 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I think Bruce Jenner is getting a vag installed...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:48 | 4524258 Bruce Flea
Bruce Flea's picture

He has to.  Kris has the dick.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:39 | 4523711 Nehweh Gahnin
Nehweh Gahnin's picture

Ah, welcome to the NWO ... coming up shortly after this brief nuclear intermission.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:40 | 4523713 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Obama and his advisers got themselves into this.  Funny, this Russian 'invasion' didn't require anyone to kill anyone yet.

Not like the Tomahawk cruise missles and bombs we saw hitting Iraq, Afghanistan, carpet bombing the 'evil' commies in Vietnam and droning 'suspected' insurgents and terrorists in sovereign countries to find out later innocents are drones as well.

Should I mention the CIA torture?

What about the TSA which is every grandmothere's nightmare come true, just to go to point b from point a.

And what about that border fence down Tijuana way which is plastered with crosses in memory of those who died trying to reach the land of the free and home of the brave and how ironic it is Reagan demanded of Gorbachev to tear down the Iron Curtain, which they finally did.

Obama and company along with George W are playing a dangerous game which karma will see rectify itself at the cost of innocents.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:50 | 4523928 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

A wall to keep prisoners in is quite different than a fence to keep others out.  Do you lock your doors at night?

Bombs away for the red flag koolaid drinkers.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:58 | 4523950 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Maybe so, but we are all human beings aren't we?  How many inncoent fathers, mothers, children are affected by things they have no control over, especially a nation's or president's ego?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:17 | 4524659 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

Is there actually some rational argument attached to your observation that "we are all human beings"?  Or is that meant to be a hand waving "justification" for anything you want?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:41 | 4523720 kwatinhu
kwatinhu's picture

I agree that this is a big deal and John Q Public dumbass average American doesn't have a clue (surprize!)

We could be going into ww3 or 4 with the weakest military, morale and leadership( if you can call it that) ever since Jimmy Carter.

But Jimmy wasn't going up against Putin, just a bunch of raghead islamist revolutionists, and still got his ass kicked.

And we weren't zillions of dollars in debt, with the whole global economy teetering in the balance.

The old Chinese curse about living in interesting times seems to be happening now!

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:49 | 4523745 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You're looking at it upside down.

The EU is frilly and "universally" kumbayaish. We (Americans) are just ignorant brutes and sheeplish. Its the end of their world as they knew it, not ours ;-)

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:11 | 4523998 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yeah I know they are all shills and puppets but Reagan in 8 years invaded Granada.  He also sent Marines to Lebanon which was a mistake and after the bombing he pulled out.  Carter also got us less involved in wars.  Since the El See Eye Ayya duh gang of Bushes, Clintons and Obam took over - it is endless wars like Orwell.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:06 | 4524837 11b40
11b40's picture

He's been watching the C-Pac conference.  They have been having a real good time Carter-bashing.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:42 | 4523726 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Let Chevron and Monsanto fight their own fucking wars..........

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:35 | 4523896 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

That'll only happen when politicians can no longer be purchased.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:43 | 4524246 Bruce Flea
Bruce Flea's picture

It's rumored that Monsanto bought Blackwater/Xe-Academi. There is no verifiable source that can confirm it, but it's been a persistent rumor that is heating up again. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

If they get their own army, there will no longer be a need for politicians.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:45 | 4523727 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Obama's the mouth for large corporations.  Corporate types always change their stories to fit the situation.  It's in his job description to be a pussy and back down and act like he never said it in the first place.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:47 | 4523739 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I kinda like my life at the present time, except for the dipshits in DC, but we can resolve that without nukes.

Personally I wouldn't mind if bama would just bend over and take the big ruskie dick.  Shouldn't be a problem im sure Hillary straps it on and fucks his hole wide open all the time.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:53 | 4523939 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Your life is nothing resembling reality.  You have it good based on TBTP taking what they want from whomever they want and letting that trickle down to you.  It's nice but quite immoral.  Just think of all the people who have died so you can have cheap this or that...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:49 | 4523743 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

They will never, ever willingly give up that naval base

Did anybody ask them to?

As the case may be, I think Obama has been a total buffoon in this (as in most things), making blustering statements that virtually nobody in the US has any interest in backing - or hearing.

 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 21:51 | 4523746 richsob
richsob's picture

This would be a hell of a lot bigger problem if the Crimea was on the Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean.  But the Black Sea is a lake.  The Russians have to go through the Bosporus and Dardanelles which is a bitch if the situation ever gets really, really hot.  The U.S. needs to calm down and get smart.  We can always befriend western Ukraine and checkmate Putin.  The Russians having Crimea isn't the end of the world but our reaction to it could sure be.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:06 | 4523794 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Western Ukraine has a large neo Nazi component.  Uber-statists.  Fuck that shit.  It would be best to let the East and the South decide what their fate is going to be, and if the neo Nazis really do gain control of the West, let the EU/IMF have them.  The Nazis will be crushed without a war by the Western banking apparatus. 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:52 | 4523934 richsob
richsob's picture

Your "logic" is laughable.  Everybody's a Nazi these days if they don't fit what you want them to be.  West Ukraine is not a bunch of Nazis.  Jeez.  If you want to argue, use facts not hyperbole.  

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:55 | 4523943 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You there!  Calm down before dear leader hears you.  He might get it in his mind to do the complete and exact opposite.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:41 | 4524211 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Look up the Svoboda party.  I'm not using hyperbole. 

 

This dude is in Ukraine's parlament:

 

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s8/167231/full/s0sR7dL.jpg

And if you doubt any further that he's not somebody who we should be friendly with, McCain seems to hang around with him:

http://i.imgur.com/TD6Nory.jpg

 

 

It doesn't take a large portion of them to take over either.  I'm not saying that Ukraine's majority is Nazi.  They do have influence and they are more willing to use force than others, it seems.  Think the Nazis were a majority in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:51 | 4524260 Haager
Haager's picture

You will ignore facts bc they don't fit to your position.

Control the masses:

Andrej Parubij - We don't need to argue how right wing this guy is, right? And his ally Dmitri Jarosh? Together with Oleh Makhnitskij the ultra-right has everything to knock opposition down and lock people up. German Schutzstaffel would have applauded.

 

Interface to TPTB (Soros)

We know that Tymoshenko is been in contact with George for more than 10 years. We see that the economical part of this so-called government has links to 'the money', with names like Pavlo Sheremata, US trained and member of Soros'Open Society. Yatsenyuk was the number 1 choice for Nuland/the US and coincidentally (cough, cough) he's at the helm.

No, the people of Ukraine didn't do a coup d'etat - it's the corporate world around Soros and multinationals that took over the country, gratefully using the dumbness of the masses to reach that goal.

You and common people in (western) Ukraine may spit and want to condemnate Putin all over, but instead he stopped the absolute sell-out of Ukraine at the very last moment. If the people of Ukraine care about the country and their future they should kick out the actual 'parliament' asap with more demonstrations and with actions to inform each other. They should go for indepence without beeing a dog of one of the superpowers. Maybe they'll reach a position like Switzerland, acting as a good bridge between Europe and Russia.

 

 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:12 | 4524292 Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

/////////and, acting as a good bridge between Europe and Russia//////

Interesting idea.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:05 | 4523772 ptolemy_newit
ptolemy_newit's picture

Thank you Victoria,

Great work, I am sure that  Tel Aviv and Brussels get to be in the first salvo.  Seem your snipers went beyond the "fuck the EU" and had a mind of their own?

Where are you at this moment and why is NOT the BBC or CNN discussing your brave diplomatic support you are providing.  You would think that would be prime time news?

Ted, there must be money to made on that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There should be a where’s waldo "I mean Victoria picture"!  I think i can see her now!  Let’s get everyone to try and find her. iit would be a great game contest.  made a prize for the first one to spot her..

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:05 | 4523790 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Uhmm, pretty sure one of them is all out of Macho...  How about a Disco Lip Bite instead?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:03 | 4523782 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Grab your tin foil lined bible and shield your brain from the solar flare to end all solar flares..

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:14 | 4523827 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Barry can show what a tough guy he is by shooting a few more Somalis.

Putin can drown a few more.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:20 | 4523846 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Has anybody here ever seen how a drunk behaves when pushed as little too far? The drunk just says 'fuck it' and starts swinging, or cutting, or shooting regardess of the outcome. There are an awful lot of drunks with their fingers on Russia's nuclear triggers, and from what I've been reading lately, while vodka isn't the US problem, we have a similar set of competency and morale issues among the men with the trigger in their hands. All it takes is one to get the ball rolling. Just one. Somewhere sitting there in isolation. Getting more and more steamed. All the 'strategic thinkers' in the world are meaningless once that lone drunk or psycho decides to say "fuck it". 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:23 | 4523862 blindman
blindman's picture

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/05/veterans-today-was-right-kiev-sh...
Veterans Today was right – Kiev shootings a psyops provocation – Updated video
.
"...
In this case, some of the fire is short bursts from automatic weapons. You can see the bullets impacting the trees, actually going over the heads of the demonstrators.
And then you see the snipers nailing individual targets, including those behind cover from the riot police. I have seen one photo of a dead protestor with a hole through his bullet proof vest, an armor piercing round. When the riot police began to get shot, they would have had their people join in the shooting, assuming the advancing protestors where shooting at them, the whole point of the provocation.
To save you time watching this…the first two minutes are dead time while the Estonian FM is waiting for the connection to Ashton. The main thing he confirms prior to the shooting part is that the members of the transition government are a lot of people with some very shady pasts…gangsters, America’s, the EU’s and NATO’s new terror ally nation-builders in Eastern Europe.
They don’t get into the shooting discussion until around 8 minutes. The Estonian FM says that the medical and on the ground people all confirm that the riot police and the protestors were shot by the same group…and there was no qualification on that. You will notice that Ashton matter of factly acknowledges this but does not ask any questions.
This would not be the first time where people shot their own 'for the greater good' as they call it.
This would not be the first time where people shot their own ‘for the greater good’ as they call it.
And the last big thing is that the Estonian FM says the interim government has no interest in an investigation to establish who really did the shooting.
Ashton again acknowledges, but strangely does not ask the FM who he thinks did it, something the faraway person would normally be asking the ‘been there’ person. One might assume that she already knew, and thus did not have to ask.
Despite knowing they are aligned with hard core street paramilitaries whom they have brutally set loose upon the Ukrainians, neither shows the slightest concern over any of their depredations.
Their main business talk was in regards to getting money to the broke government so they can function and not collapse…but there was no mention of extracting an independent investigation commitment from gangsters for the promised money. Now isn’t that special?
________________________________
This conversation took place on Feb. 26th, 2014…and we assume was intercepted by Russian security
Update: 03-06-14 … The story has of course gone viral. The elitist at the EU have just declined comment, as have the US politicians and the new Ukraine government. They are betting that in a week the dummies won’t remember any of this as their attention span does not last that long. That is the contempt they have for us. So I think it is time for us to get the phone numbers of the EU offices here in the US and say hello to them and let them know what we think of their EU attitude.
Bottom line? Both the US and EU Intelligence agencies know exactly who did these murders, so that makes them guilty of withholding the information. But they have immunity…and that is the issue that we are going to have to get onto the table to have any chance of fighting back…the blanket immunity they give themselves. It really is a national security threat to all the rest of us… Jim W. Dean, VT." ..jwd
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in other related news ...
‘Hang scum later’ – Ukrainian deputy governor on Crimea protests
Published time: March 07, 2014 19:29 Get short URL
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-dnepropetrovsk-crimea-protest-458/
..."
Kiev’s newly-appointed deputy head of south-eastern Ukraine has shared his recipe of how to calm protesters in Crimea opposing the self-proclaimed country’s government: “Give the scum promises, guarantees and then hang them.”

Boris Filatov, the deputy head of the industrial Dnepropetrovsk region, suggested not sending any pro-Maidan activists to the Ukrainian Autonomous Republic, which has been protesting against the coup-imposed government and not to make any radical statements.

“This scum should be given promises, guarantees, and any concessions…And hung…They should be hung later,” Filatov, a lawyer and a businessman, wrote on his Facebook page commenting on events in Crimea. He did not clarify who exactly he classifies as “scum.”

The post – particularly its part on “hang them later” – drew wide media attention. Filatov was quick to note though that he was writing “not as an official.”

Crimea, a mostly Russian-speaking republic, has refused to recognize the legitimacy of the government in Kiev and will hold a referendum on whether to stay within the Ukraine or to join Russia." " ...
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Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:42 | 4523912 vainamoinen
vainamoinen's picture

In 1707, During the reign of Peter the Great, Swedish King Charles XII, with the aid of Ukranian Cossacks, attempted to march on Moskow. Like Napolean and Hitler after him, his army disintegrated and he sought asylum with the Turks in Istanbul, eventually returning to Sweden.

From Wikipedia:

"The Swedish defeat at Poltava is considered by some historians to be the point where the downfall of the Swedish Empire was consummated and the Russian Empire was founded." (kinda sounds like Stalingrad in the winter of 1942 don't it?)

Now those nitwits Obama, Kerry, Clinton and their handlers are making a run on Russia.

AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!! - - - Just like it didn't happen in Afganistan; even after a decade of trying.

And Russia ain't no Afganistan.

Snyder often writes good stuff. But to reduce recent events in the Ukraine to a macho game of "chicken" between Obama and Putin is absurd. (and Obama ain't macho anyway. - - now Hillary - - - - - - - - - - - -oh, nevermind. Let's not go there - - -)

 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 15:26 | 4525411 StopIt.Now
StopIt.Now's picture

50 to 1 the 'first woman' propoganda machine will win out in 2016.  Thus the utterly insane lying game of fantasyland vs reality will continue (i.e .gov running the entire US economy, gigantic paper-printing and Ponzi, with complete Press parroting 24-hours "all is well").

This 20-year-old (I mean when it massively begin to speed sped up) communist-like lying will of course lead to ultimate collapse, which hopefully will lead to a) The People's wake up as a nation, b) National solidarity for voting out hard-core, left-wing radical and entrenched right-wing liars (they both focus solely on retaining power vs acting in the USA's interests), and c) Remergence of honesty and integrity, mass shrinking of .gov departments that were never envisioned by the Father's and Constitution (except of national defense).

This is a realistic belief, as it is how the USA began.  It is however unlikely because the USA has become so immoral and corrupt in terms of leadership and any patriotism for our way of life has been effectively outlawed with character assasination. This of course leads me to the other topic; why would anyone who lives in the US, has enjoyed complete freedom to live as they wish, then SHIT all over the very freedoms they have enjoyed?  Why HATE what has clearly been the best-but-not-perfect design of the pursuit of happiness?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:47 | 4523924 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Alsmost brilliant.  Force or take advantage of crisis upon crisis to buy back the debt.  Suppose the FED is actaully able to accumulate 100% of US debt, what would that mean?  Would we be owned outright?  Would "we" be able to benevolently forgive or repudiate our debt?  Would we still have to worry about the red horde?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4523976 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Is Obama less impeachable while maintaining "drama" with Putin and forcing Ukraine into a broke fascist Muslim Socialist EU trade cartel?

 

Clinton bombed Serbia and polluted the Danube with abandon to distract.

 

 

 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:22 | 4524030 stant
stant's picture

putin not playin chicken, hes gona keep his dam naval bases or shtf.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:23 | 4524031 besnook
besnook's picture

syria and iran was check. ukraine is checkmate. on a path that began with chavez, the world has become more and more emboldened to stand up to the usa. why chavez? chavez was funny as hell but he represented the loss of usa south american influence to the bolivarian revolution. he made shrub look like the fool he was. the rest of the world saw usa impotence in its own backyard. why did the usa abandon the territory it once vowed was off limits to the rest of the world? because the fucking stupid zionists could not see the benefit of protecting south american influence to their agenda until too late allowing china to move in economically in a big way underpinning the new brazilian economy. the usa has not recovered its influence in the region since south america(ex columbia) has tasted freedom from predatory economic hitmen. this sentiment has spread across the world. china is responsible for much of this courage as it has been the alternative choice for most of these nations.

during this time russia and china formed the shanghai cooperation organization(sco) with the goal of creating a multipolar world. they have done this by influencing organizations, individual countries and creating organizations of countries to form economic alliances specifically to counter usa and euro influence. all of this was done while the now dumbass zionist controlled usa .gov focused upon the(useless to the usa) clean break/pnac adventure in the mid east "inspired" by the 9/11 pearl harbor event. to his credit, obama partially realized what has happened and announced his asian pivot. like south america, he is way too late. japan is in the process of figuring out how to implement hatoyama's manifesto, a clean break from the west. the island disputes are all about usa commitment to japan and the south and eastern pacific.

 

so now the usa has lost south america and eastern/pacific asia. africa is still in dispute but northern africa is anti usa after the various springs. central africa with the exception of kenya is disfunctional and south africa(just as australia is) is too isolated to matter more than a convenient source of resources. both countries owe their lives to china more than the west.

south asia to the mid east is a foreign policy disaster so all that is left is the former soviet union states. the eurozone is in a tough spot and an obstacle to any economic sanctions against russia, especially germany(lol) because of the interlocking economies and energy supply.

meanwhile, the most interesting part of all of this is the public dissing of israel by the usa which, at the very least, is the public response to the extreme criticism of us/israel policy in public forums across the world. this phenomenon could not have happened pre internet. it is apparent the protest aginst this anti usa relationship is now strong enough to influence congress prostitutes. this is huge. .gov sentiment may have moved beyond lip service to action to save their jobs. the ukraine is obviously tied to putin's expulsion of the jewish oligarchs as a vendetta as much as a strategic issue in line with  the containment of russia policy.

putin's choice is clear. he holds the course while the usa and europe fight over what to do. europe will actually consider its own interests as merkel has already revealed while the usa is trapped by its allegiance to zionists. the usa is forced to make a choice between its real interests in the region(there really are none of consequence) and the interests of the parasite zionists attached to its throat. ironically, obama and the usa will deserve the nobel peace prize if it rips the parasite off its throat and leads the world to peace. the usa will be seen as strong rather than weak by the world's people who matter. they know real politick not the propaganda the people know. the usa may suffer temporaily but the world will recognize the real power of the usa if it follows its true interests and not the interests of the parasite. of course, the parasite dies without a host.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:54 | 4524266 woolly mammoth
woolly mammoth's picture

It was the old Daily Bell site that kept saying the internet is what would expose and bring down the banker parasites. Maybe so, or it could be they just ran out of time in trying to gain controll over the whole world before their debt based monetary system blew up. If they loose control they will be hunted down and put on trial. After all external roads are blocked they will turn inwards and all that harm they put on the rest of the world will be attempted to be unleased on us. Hope they fail.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 14:14 | 4525246 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I wish that would become the case, but I fear that they will just morph into the new leaders.  Morphing is a generational skill.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 15:14 | 4525396 StopIt.Now
StopIt.Now's picture

I'll opine it will be unleashed on us, and they are truly never completely out of control (at least I don't think so).  With vast money and inter-connect, world-wide resources, they will take advantage of any major upheaval, including war.  I mean, when you own BOTH sides of industry, how can you fail?  Banking><Housing, Food Supply><Distribution, Fiat><Metal, Business><Policitians, Technology><Military, on and on and on.

I'd say the only thing world banksters don't fully control are all the world's countries and leaders, especially China and Russia, and of course Radical Islamic states.  And that is a lot of power to upset their global-sized cart.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 03:08 | 4524406 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

"Many reactions were strongly critical of Obama. Hugo Chávez, the president of Venezuela, described Obama's {UNFCCC Copenhagen 2009} speech as "ridiculous" and the US's initial offer of a $10bn fund for poor countries in the draft text as "a joke".

Paris 2015. Obama best show up with something REAL.

thanks besnook

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 15:07 | 4525381 StopIt.Now
StopIt.Now's picture

ACTUALLY... it's best Obama NOT show up... for OUR sake.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:22 | 4524607 kurt
kurt's picture

All good but please don't use "embolden" as it reminds me of GW and that makes me want to puke.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 15:06 | 4525377 StopIt.Now
StopIt.Now's picture

Looks to me like ZeroHedge has a viable article contributer. That was very informative in terms of summarizing the present world situation. 

I think I'm going to change my new to "WeAreSo.Screwed".  I keep imagining 100 million unemployed, a mass-reset of US economy, hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc.

It's no wonder .Gov is using every department, even USPS, to buy billions of bullets. DHS is now linked to every police agency nationwide, with centralized control/communications.  I think they can shut down any real serious citizen demonstrations of anger and frustration.

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