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Martin Armstrong: Obama "Using Same Nonsense As Putin"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via Martin Armstrong of Armstrong Economics blog,

For Obama to claim that a public vote in Crimea would violate the Constitution of Ukraine and International Law is really just as absurd that the same argument put forth by Putin that nothing in Kiev was legal because it was not signed by Yanukovych. There should be a vote, but it should be monitored independently to ensure it is real. To argue that no state may move to secede from a federal government is ridiculous. Obama said:

“Any discussion about the future of Ukraine must include the legitimate government of Ukraine. In 2014, we are well beyond the days when borders can be redrawn over the heads of democratic leaders.”

Texas has the ABSOLUTE right to secede from the United States if it so desired and the Washington has no right to invade Texas to prevent that – although they too would in the blink-of-an-eye. There are no “democratic” leaders in Kiev as of yet because this is a grass-roots uprising that distrusts anyone who has EVER been in government before.

Meanwhile, you cannot say the people have no right to decide their own fate because this violates the will of “democratic” leaders. No elected official has the right to trump the wishes of the people and let us call a spade a spade – the EU suppresses the right to vote because they are afraid the people in Europe would vote against the euro. The EU interfered with Italian elections and it threatened Georgios Papandreou of Greece that it was NOT ALLOWED to allow the people to vote on staying in the Euro. Greece back-down and did not allow that to take place – so much for democratic ideals.

Let the people decide and YES we can redraw the borders if the PEOPLE so desire. If splitting Ukraine PREVENTS war – then so be it. The word for “slave” in Latin is “servus” and that is the root of public servant. Politicians should remember they are NOT the dictators of the people, but the servants of the people. There can never be any justification to deny the people the right to be heard. That is the oldest right...

 

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Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:48 | 4523927 nmewn
nmewn's picture

This is some constitutional law type professorial stuff here ;-)

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:02 | 4523964 The Vineyard
The Vineyard's picture

Obama and Putin are both a couple of fags.  They should invite each other to prom.  Bitches.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:17 | 4523987 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

Quit pimping your stupid fucking blog. For anyone with 1/2 a brain that wants to understand what's going on over there read what Pat Buchanan had to say today about the situation. These fucking Neocons and their Zionist dreams will be the death of the whole planet. I hope Putin sticks it up their asses and breaks it off.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:52 | 4524109 Protokletos
Protokletos's picture

I just read up on what Buchanan has written over the past few days--and you're right.  It's definitely the most level-headed and rational argument I've heard from any political commentator.  Don't think I have enough faith in Obama, Hillary, and the gang to pull through with the pragmatism here though.  

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:26 | 4524187 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

I really believe that Buchanan is the last true conservative left in the US- the rest are just pretenders. 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:42 | 4524242 indygo55
indygo55's picture

"I really believe that Buchanan is the last true conservative left in the US- the rest are just pretenders. "

If he speaks, he has been allowed.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:18 | 4524304 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Buchanan is a dinosaur, he's been out of power for over twenty years. I'm sure the PTB consider him irrelevant.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:36 | 4524321 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

Sure shithead- you prefer RINOs like Cruz , an Obammy/Cliton worshipper or just a nihilist? And no- I'm not a red/blue teamer.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:05 | 4524349 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Au contraire, I think Buchanan is fucking awesome. The point I was making was that the DemoPublicans don't pay any attention to him because he is on the outside of the system now.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 04:24 | 4524465 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Both of you STFU.  Like dude above said, if he's allowed to speak he's part of the team.  I seen Buchanan flop back and forth on principals enough times to know he's just a paid actor, that's all.  None of these fucking idiots has any "level-headed argument".  It's just what makes him look good to say until his masters tell him to say different.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:17 | 4524555 new game
new game's picture

If i say poliafuckentician, does than get through. an elected leader that would do the peoples will is an impossiblity.

the majority are not informed and can not be informed. can not be informed as the system does not allow.

consider yourself lucky just to be reading ZH - thank your parents :)

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:33 | 4524574 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Are we still listening to him?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:14 | 4524723 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

Myself and my fellow countrymen in flyover country would like to secede from the US.

 

Don't worry.....we'll send food if we feel like it.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:51 | 4524796 ImReady
ImReady's picture

If Texas seceeded. I'd load up a truck with my guns, gold, and food and head south from the communist state of IL.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:55 | 4524806 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Assuming you survive MO, KS & OK.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 13:15 | 4525107 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Bigger truck with gun ports?

.. need room for the tools, the dog and maybe the wife.

(just kidding)

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 17:33 | 4525671 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

IR

I doubt that...those of us who have the intellegence to leave IL have done so already...and long ago...only prisoners of the system or those with family ties remain in that freezing hell hole of Daley/Obama/ (fill in current former governor now in prison of choice).

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 18:39 | 4525872 ImReady
ImReady's picture

Some of us producers(despite .gov's attempt to tax us to oblivion) have business' built with decades of sweat. I'm not ready to give that up...yet. 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:56 | 4524812 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Well, the planet preferably, but there's those pesky logistics issues...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 20:34 | 4526321 wallstreetapost...
wallstreetaposteriori's picture

better than looking at foneystars posts about shitcoin.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:35 | 4524575 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea, thank um after you teach them well, and even then they are extremely SLOW learners.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 16:26 | 4525498 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Part-boner

to call Cruz a RINO is moronic...he is the opposite of a RINO. Cruz is the real deal...pro-liberty, pro-gun, anti-tax anti big government. 

RINO is what you call a liberal running with an R after their name. They are tolerated only if they come from states that cannot be won by a real conservative. Buchanan is what I would called conservative straight...not much libertarian in his ideas especially foreign policy.

The basis of conservatism is adherence to the Constitution. I will accept coaition with anyone who shares that belief regardless of religious beliefs or whether they are pro American boosters or not. All modern Democrats fail that test. Many republicans do too. THEY are called RINOs. Cruz is not a RINO.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:50 | 4524809 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And that is the point once you've been relegated to irrelevant you can speak the truth in the mainstream. It is not like anyone will listen who matters to them in the first place. The confirmation bias has already been established with the weak minded and controllable types.

You see Randy Dandy Paul speaking on the constitutional issue at all no he is too busy playing prom queen, Ron on the other hand needs to stop teaching kindergarten level liberty to adults with his noninterventionalist stance but brings no substance or context to it in relation to the Ukraine. It is morally indiginant airhead fluff like that Liz Wahl huffy puffy fit. He sounds like pre-written soundbite these days. Fire bad, everyone gets it. Can we evolve the teaching to at least grade school/high school level liberty and leave the kindergarten stuff to the younger ones.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:38 | 4524326 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Opus Dei vs Jesuits. Buchanan vs McLaughlin (of PBS). Fake enemies (from an outsider view) but mortal enemies (as they see each other) in their world view. We are ensnared in their bullshit all across the world

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:44 | 4524332 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

Sure- they run the world- that's why there have been so many Catholics that have been head of the Fed. Go read another Dan Brown book.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:39 | 4524681 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

And the Jesuits don't run the Vatican? 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 12:00 | 4524954 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Ah I get it. Its the jews in figurehead positions that are in charge. Blame the puppets and ignore the puppet masters. The search is over. Thanks for clearing that up.

I could give a shit about Dan Brown or his stupid books glorifying freemasons. There is actually a jewish angle to the NWO but it isn't a connection mentioned on the five o'clock news.. The holy land is central to the NWO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0GnFwapMZqU#t=...

 

 

 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:46 | 4524327 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

Thanks for reprinting my words- I forgot what I said. When you click "reply" to a post that means that you don't have to reprint the whole fucking post that you are "replying" to genius.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:27 | 4524205 Stackers
Stackers's picture

The powers not delegated by the Constitution are reserved to the people

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 04:26 | 4524468 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Except for those seized by the Federal corporation during Reconstruction.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:20 | 4524559 new game
new game's picture

Idealisticly yes, reality-they do what they want. and so do I, within reason...

fuck em...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:55 | 4524118 philipat
philipat's picture

Agreed. Poor little Martin Armstrong who was sent to prison on "False accusations" so must be credible. I think he has totally lost the plot.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:09 | 4524282 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

This excerpt from the article clearly underlines his vapidity:

There are no “democratic” leaders in Kiev as of yet because this is a grass-roots uprising that distrusts anyone who has EVER been in government before.

That line is is either one of the stupidest comments ever or it is missing a sarc tag requiring a commensurate font size so large that it would be impossible to produce.

How is the reader average rating on an article containing such a boner a +4?  Just because it regurgitates accepted common law and the right of self determination to shield delivery of that disinfo turd?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:25 | 4524309 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You're an idiot who knows nothing about Ukraine. If you had ever talked to an actual Ukrainian on the street, you would understand the frustration they have been subjected to due to the massive corruption and utter disfunction of their county for the better part of an entire century. They have gigantic tracts of the richest farmland on earth, yet they have nothing to show for it. Think that might indicate a problem??

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:42 | 4524330 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

That's definitely a problem.

So is the utter lack of understanding of what really happened on the ground in the Ukraine as demonstrated by Armstrong in his statement and probably as demonstrated by the repeated victimization of the Ukrainian people by what is happening to them now and clearly as demonstrated by by your idiotic assumption.

I have not been to the Ukraine myself but I can read:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/austerity-and-imf-economic-medicine-the-loo...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/democratization-and-anti-semitism-in-ukrain...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-and-the-presstitute-media-convertin...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ukrainian-pendulum-two-invasions-and-a-...

Can you?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:13 | 4524357 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You've proved my point. Get back to me when you've actually spent some time there.

You see, the nifty thing about Martin Armstrong is, he has actual well-placed sources developed over decades that he can rely on to give him first-hand information on the ground. And, given the fact that in this particular case, his information jibes with my own impressions formed when I was actually there, makes him even more credible.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:27 | 4524368 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

You're a fast reader.  Please feel free to expound on how my links did not undercut Armstrong's absurd contention.  This is not a travelogue.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:25 | 4524743 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Here's the same line again:

"There are no “democratic” leaders in Kiev as of yet because this is a grass-roots uprising that distrusts anyone who has EVER been in government before."

Now tell me shithead, how does Yulia Timoschenko fit into that description? Keep on eating MSM's propaganda... Garbage in, garbage out.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:50 | 4524338 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

 if you care so much hurry on over and kick some ass John Wayne- just leave us out of it.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:08 | 4524354 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

He doesn't even know who's ass he would be kicking.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:05 | 4524646 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Not true.

They will always have Chernobyl.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:23 | 4524183 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

Agreed.

Also don't miss Dr. Paul Craig Roberts comments on King World News:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/3/1_Dr...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:09 | 4523992 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The vote in Crimea was after Crimea was occupied by Russia. You'd be pretty dumb to vote "NO" to getting taken over by Russia in that situation, knowing that Crimea is doomed to become part of Russia regardless...unless you really enjoy death through ricin.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:28 | 4524035 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Jesus are you ever fucking stupid.

Another Douglas Feith Dumbest Fuck On Earth contender.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:35 | 4524229 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Thanks for making a great argument. You sound like a terrific human being. I bet everyone around is just so greatful.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:44 | 4524248 indygo55
indygo55's picture

"Another Douglas Feith Dumbest Fuck On Earth contender."

I logged in just to say,,, Yeah!

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:07 | 4524287 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Yeah! Crimea didn't just secede. Crimea is now a part of Russia. And Russia is not done. Putin doesn't give a fuck...he's just getting started.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:56 | 4524272 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Maybe everyone here missed the fact that there are 30,000 Russian troops in Crimea. No matter the vote, Crimea is now essentially Russia. This is not a Crimean movement, this is a Russian invasion. Ukraine fairly voted out their ruler and Russia saw and took their chance to invade.

Anyway, who really gives a hoot. This is just a distraction from the coming market crash. The political will is needed in order to stop the taper and increase QE, and that political will will only be found when the market crashes. In order to divert attention away from the dump and pump, we have good 'ole fashion war and posturing going on...someone else to point the finger at as to why the market's acting so crazy and why we need more QE. This is just the beginning of the shenanigans and as the world currency crisis accelerates, the shenanigans will accelerate.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:29 | 4524313 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You do realize that, by treaty with Ukraine, the Russians are allowed to keep a rather substantial contingent of troops in Crimea? So this "invasion" is mostly just Russia actually moving the troops into Crimea that they are already legally allowed to have there?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:37 | 4524324 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

How many troops were in Crimea a week ago and how many troops are there today?

Chalk it up as you may, but Russia just took over Crimea...which is an invasion.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 13:57 | 4525213 silvermail
silvermail's picture
  Invasion? But Russia is learning democracy from the U.S.. What Russia did wrong?
Sat, 03/08/2014 - 14:21 | 4525263 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Just because one country did something aweful doesn't mean it's okay for another country to also do something aweful.

All ya'll are acting like Russia is there to help protect Crimea from Ukraine. That's a fun thought, except Russia is just going to swallow up Crimea. And they're going to move on to take the eastern half of Ukraine too.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 18:34 | 4525832 silvermail
silvermail's picture

You wanted to say: Just because USA did something aweful 10 time doesn't mean it's okay for Russia to do something good, at the request of the legitimate authorities of Ukraine, is not it?

---

They want to take the eastern part of Ukraine? Who are "they"? Look, there every day rallies. There is no Russian military now. But thousands of people take to the streets with Russian flags. They do not recognize the authority of criminals and impostors from Kiev. They are well aware that there was an armed coup.
What these people are worse than those who took to the streets in Kiev?
Or the right to self-determination have only those people who live in the capital?
Or you act like a dictator and enemy of democracy?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 20:13 | 4526230 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The USA is THE WORST offender.

But you bringing that into the argument is simply a distraction. Russia is not coming in to save the day of these people. Putin is not doing this out of the goodness of his heart. It's simply more people for him to leach off of.

But still, all of this is missing the bigger picture. They game is being played to have controlled chaos, and the US is essentially coordinating this game with Russia and China and the EU. This is setting up a distraction for the market crash / inflation / and even more massive government intervention that is to come. Point to the war as the source of the problems and suddenly everyone forgets what the real problems is...the world monetary fiat ponzi.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 14:03 | 4525220 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Invasion? But what makes today U.S. troops in Iraq? They are looking for weapons of mass destruction? And how many more years the U.S. Army, will be trying to find these fictional, non-existent weapons in a foreign country?
Or the United States in the pocket there is a request of the legitimate authorities of the Iraqi, about military assistance?

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 06:11 | 4527167 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

If you do not even bother to read and understand the history of that region before open your mouth you can just go fuck yourself.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:42 | 4524685 odatruf
odatruf's picture

BB - we are legally allowed to have ships in the Taiwan Straight. Do you think us parking the combined USPACOM forces there would be viewed as dryly as you are suggesting?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:32 | 4524758 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Imagina mainland China financing a few thousand hard-core Maoist "peaceful protesters" in Taiwan that baricade themselves downtown Taipei and shoot to kill anybody who opposes them. 

How do you think USPACOM would react then?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 03:02 | 4524405 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Ukraine fairly voted out their ruler and Russia saw and took their chance to invade.

Voted?  Who voted?  Soros-McCain in the Ukriane just like what they did the 2008 kabuki election that made sure McCain became the fall guy.

Just like Rove-Soros-Adelson made sure Romney stole the midwest and south through vote rigging over Santorum in the primary and made sure Ron Paul was ignored? 

Adelson was backing both Romney and Newt in 2012 to block Paul and Santorum.  Newt is CFR like the Clintons.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 06:04 | 4524513 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

PROPAGANDA - FELCHING - FUCKTARD is really too polite a description of your intellectual process.

"Ukraine fairly voted out their ruler and Russia"

Constitution of Ukraine - Article 111

The President of Ukraine may be removed from office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment, in the event that he or she commits state treason or other crime.
The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special Prosecutor and special investigators.
The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
For cause, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, by no less than two-thirds of its constitutional composition, adopts a decision on the accusation of the President of Ukraine.
The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition, after the review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and the receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and the receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of state treason or other crime.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:48 | 4524924 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Great post.

I.E. the present Banksta puppets in Kiev are NOT the legal  "Government of Ukraine"...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 06:59 | 4524542 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

When was it not. Crimea. Being a part of Russia? I have no love nor admiration for Vlad but the western logic is simply just...wrong. And the roots to what we now see lies in Iraq. When everyone got wise to the fact that it is OK to invade other countries - just because you want to as long as you trump up charges and tell a false history to the sheeple , then the stone got rolling.

Vlad just got with the program. He has a hefty nuclear deterrant and if you oppose the grab too much you may just get a Topol up your ass. Bitching about this is just the pot calling the kettle black. And the cooking pot will not be able to do so much about it , anyway. The west will moan and bitch and try different covert shit and sabotage but in the end there´s not really much to be done here. Unless we are willing to take the risk of getting Topoled.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 13:54 | 4525209 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Ukraine voted?! LOL! Where? When? On the Independence, using snipers and Molotov cocktails? This is how you call the "Ukraine voted"?
Wait a bit and you'll see how to will vote Ukraine in Donetsk and Kharkov. Or do you want to say that only in Kiev can vote using snipers and Molotov cocktails?
http://i.imgur.com/G89DoGV.jpg?1

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:30 | 4524043 ZakuKommander
ZakuKommander's picture

LOL.  As if occupying US troops left the countries during the Iraqi and Afghanisran elections . . .

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:38 | 4524066 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

 "To argue that no state may move to secede from a federal government is ridiculous."

Who wrote this crap, the ghost of Jefferson Davis?   Did the US learn nothing from the Civil War?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:50 | 4524105 stant
stant's picture

its learning appomattox was half time

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 06:20 | 4524519 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The end of the War of Northern Aggression occurred long before a naive bunch of global elitist liberal douchebags (including from the northern US) got together and signed the UN Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights... which ascribe the status of both basic human right and fundamental freedom to the Right to self determination.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:01 | 4524827 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."Did the US learn nothing from the Civil War?"

You're getting warm, ese.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 17:43 | 4525694 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

That really is an absurd statement; I can't really be bothered to read whatever else it's author has to say. You can't make any useful point about reality by referring to some dreamworld you happen to like. I'm sure the US learned a lot from the Civil War; but apparently Martin Armstrong somehow managed to miss the main conclusion.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:15 | 4524297 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The US isn't any better. Actually, the US may be the most destructive country in history as it is at the helm of the greatest ponzi scheme ever...the world fiat monetary ponzi that's starting to implode on the periphery...which upon implosion will kill more than the most devastating of past wars. But make no mistake, Crimea is now under the control of Russia. For forever.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 13:29 | 4525136 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Only a complete idiot would call an "occupation", a request for military assistance, from the legitimate authority in the person of the President, democratically elected.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:11 | 4523997 Jadr
Jadr's picture

A new account to make a retarded one to three sentence comment on every article and pimp your shitty blog.  Your life must be nice...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:42 | 4524062 philipat
philipat's picture

I'm ready for the red arrows BUT, it is a fact that Yanukovych IS the democratically elected President of Ukraine, irrespective of whether he is competent or not. If Russia can organise a referendum in Crimea within 2 weeks, why is not possible for Ukraine to hold an election in the same time frame?

  1. The US is all for democracy when the outcome suits it, but not when it doesn't (Egypt, Ukraine).
  2. Ukraine is now in the hands of neo-Nazi thugs who got there as a result of Western manipulation.
  3. The West must EITHER write a blank cheque to Kiev or get out of the way. Ukraine's economy is NOT competitive and survives on the back of subsidies on gas prices from Russia. The West will have to provide equivalent subsidies for Ukraine to "Go West".
  4. Is Ukraine really so important that The West wants to do that? And perhaps more importantly, where will the money come from?
  5. Maybe Texas SHOULD do that and become a real Low Tax, Low Regulation, competitor to The Land of The Free?
Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:54 | 4524117 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I have said since this Ukraine dust-up started I am torn on who to root for. On the one hand we have the EU pussies who want to boss everyone around vs. the commies who also want to boss everyone around. I'm going with this - Safe to say both sides are in cahoots because if they were not there would already be war.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:26 | 4524199 trevor15
trevor15's picture

Angela Merkal grew up in East Germany, she speaks fluent Russian and worships Catherine the Great who happens to be German as well.  Germany needs Russian gas, and Russia needs close ties to the strongest member of the E.U.  There will be no 'classic' war, but a financial one. Just pray China keeps their nose out of it.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:31 | 4524376 philipat
philipat's picture

China has no interest in Ukraine. There is no oil and grain is plentiful at reasonable prices elsewhere, including from The US.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:01 | 4524824 Zadig
Zadig's picture

Untrue.  "China has moved to lease arable farmland in Ukraine that's nearly the size of all the farms in Haryana put together and entered into an agreement that will allow additional tracts of land to be transferred to Chinese control in future. The initial agreement is worth $1.7 billion."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-to-lease-3m-ha-of-U...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 13:47 | 4525182 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Angela Merkel, has put great country Germany, into a vassal of the United States. If before all the key in European decisions was made in Berlin, then tepr all this key decisions are made in US-Brussels.
Angela Merkel has turned Europe into corridor for NATO.
Angela Merkel has made from Europe, the EuNATO.
Today, Angela Merkel, unquestioningly becomes in any position, that will be dictated from Washington.
This is a disgrace!

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:44 | 4524249 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Yeah Crawdaddy... IMO Urkaine looks a like a football being royally kicked around in a game in a stadium we cannot get into to watch and we're not 100% absolutely clear on who's the ref or who fully makes up the members of each team...we just know the outcomes of this game will affect more than just the Urkainian folks and we know its designed to have longer term impact on geo-politics/economics/war tensions all to be used to some ulterior motive(s).

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:18 | 4524303 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

It would be nice if we had some media outlets we could rely on to get news but since most of the reporters work for the globalists we are reduced to throwing monkey turds among ourselves. Sad thing is - monkey turds are more logical than the globalist agitprop.

P.S. That is a fine allegory you built there. Bravo!

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:56 | 4524590 new game
new game's picture

the reason you come to zh is because you want to find the truth. try pcr or noami. keep lookin, the truth does not hide!

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:21 | 4524023 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

nmewn:  "This is some constitutional law type professorial stuff here ;-) "

Yeah . . . he doesn't seem to understand that 'law' has nothing to do with it, does he ?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:51 | 4524108 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Law & justice & rights are, very often, at completey opposite ends of the "acceptable limits" of the normal human cognitive spectrum experience. No one wants to think about it, so they try not to.

Nobody wants to be "the one" to punish those who stripped rights away by a perverse law but everyone knows justice was served by the act of somebody doing it and is happy it is done by someone, besides them.

The executioner (the final enforcer of justice) always seems to get a bad wrap, depending on the crowds ;-)

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:00 | 4524593 new game
new game's picture

i picture a horse thieve hanging from a lone tree with three cowboys holding court on the prairie.

self appointed judge and two jurors. i was unanimous vote as he was riding the stolen horse.  they forgot the shovel:)

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:51 | 4523932 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Martin Armchair said it so it must be true. What a douche.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:54 | 4523941 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The current president of the Ukraine was not elected, he was appointed.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:00 | 4523956 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

Well Diebold and the TeeVee elected Bama

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:07 | 4523980 old naughty
old naughty's picture

and he's told to keep the sheeples IN...Setting the stage to prevent states to secede.

All in plain sight, sheeples just don't know it, yet.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:42 | 4524054 Lore
Lore's picture

Then there are the anecdotes about busloads of Somali immigrants, illegal aliens, fraudulent cards, "ballot rewrites," voters being told "They already voted" upon arriving at their polls, more than 100% of registered voters in some counties, etc. Hard to imagine how a Crimean vote for secession could be monitored "independently" with so much corruption swirling around, unless it involves joint simultaneous in-person monitoring of all-paper ballots by multiple groups. There must be things they can learn from case studies like Florida 2012.  Would you trust your ballot box to Nazis?  What about foreign-hired agitpropagandists? Who do you trust?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:01 | 4523960 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Yes and Bush won fair and square in 2k. Back then I was on the streets in favor of Bush. Now I know better. Red/blue, EU/US, Putin/Obama. They are all playing us for fools.

Agenda pushing asshole, this Armchair guy. Spout a few things most can agree with and sneak in the shit he is really paid for. Which is - disturb the shit. Anyones shit, as long as it is disturbed in the "right" direction. As you may surmise, I do not trust this fucking guy.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:11 | 4523999 nmewn
nmewn's picture

There are a lot of people I don't trust...but I don't see where he said anything wrong.

He was not elected, at the same time the former president had to "beat feet" so therefore could not be impeached (a trial requires the right of a defense).

It was a revolution, "the law" always fails here., no quorum, no enforcers.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:22 | 4524028 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I hear ya bro but you are taking law and order. Logic and rights are in the ditch until these assholes are deposed. Ukraine, like US, is way past that now.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:33 | 4524056 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Logic and rights are in the ditch until these assholes are deposed."

lol...plus one...ain't that the truth.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:34 | 4524058 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Rights are government made conventions used to control the masses.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:55 | 4524120 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Disagree.

You're actually born with your rights, governments are the only thing that is in a constant process of infringing upon them.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:01 | 4524138 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Rights are abstract concepts.

Beliefs.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:24 | 4524188 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You don't have "a right" to kill someone just because you don't like them or steal from them because they have more than you etc.

The "other person" has the very same right to kill you while defending himself and his property then, doesn't he?

Its fundamental and is not an abstract concept at all...try screwing around with a bear cub or its home (or any living thing) in momma's or papa's presence, you'll find out ;-)

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 23:11 | 4526744 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Nobody has a right to make up rights.

You are being silly (and manipulated) but if you do come across a right, box it up and send it to me.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:42 | 4524085 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

But The Law always succeeds "the law".  God's law.  Nature's law.  Human nature.  Fate.  Whatever you call it, it always wins.

As an aside, I have to say Vikings is a very good show.  You have to look at what is in front of you and accept it.  It is what it is.  There is your opportunity.  it is meant to be, else it wouldn't be there.  Go get it.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:10 | 4524154 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I (we) live in a world with many beliefs and customs.

I don't believe the spiritual law can coexist with mans law. Its separate. I would no more accept the imposition of anothers spritual law on me than impose my spiritual law on another.

We're all free, as men of good faith, as is our right, to disagree on the spiritual (and I have and will as always) but mans law should be separate...or we will never agree on anything.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:09 | 4524843 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."I would no more accept the imposition of anothers spritual law on me than impose my spiritual law on another."

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:09 | 4523994 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I'm gettin' blue words.
You gettin' blue words too?
says "douche, armchair, appointed"...
AND FRANKLY I DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE THAT.

What was the article again?
Oh, yeah. "Before Texas there was America."

Kinda pisses me off too sometimes.
"Like they own the place!"

"Mr. Speaker...madame chair...chair...madam? dame? chairlady?...respected guests, pretentious honor. I come before you today to discuss Bill 375-b/7l..."the invasion of dem serious syrians types" which was presented to us some time ago and did not happen nor will it ever and i wish to digress this if it please this jury.

I wish to thank those in attendance to my preponderance...I was indeed amazing, flabbergassing actually...when this arrived on our Front Porch. I wish to extend my gratuities...especially to our President, El Jeffe...for extending me this obligation here which I intend to fullfort. TO BEGIN...(snorrrrrrrrrrrrr

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:19 | 4524018 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I don't particularly like it when some armchair douche drags the seccession of my state into the his canned pro-war agenda arguments. He is waving the bloody shirt. Recognize and investigate him before you sign off on what he is saying.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:29 | 4524204 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I have been wondering about"the president."  I have seen so much of the English-speaking "prime minister" lately, but not the president.  (The prime minister is the one attending the meetings with the EU and the U.S., isn't he?)  A little while ago, they were often seen together. 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:07 | 4524597 new game
new game's picture

and he is another oligarch with the same background as about 530 of our "elecected" reps.

if the money could be circumvented we could find a representation by the people for the people.

but even then, we need a majority that is informed. next would be the breakup of the media.

like the banks these corporations control all outcomes.  seems hopeless...

oh, and term limits to add to the hopelessness.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:58 | 4523949 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Armstrong is so confused. Just so confused with his self.  Am I important? or a fool.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:02 | 4523967 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Is there something about the confusion you'd like to point out?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:53 | 4523938 geotrader
geotrader's picture

I wish Texas would secede.  

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:11 | 4523995 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Not yet, I am not there...

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:24 | 4524034 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

I'm here.  Let's get the secession on the road and fuck DC.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:58 | 4524126 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

All independent would be best. But then the next biggest country would take over as power hungry global sociopath.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:12 | 4524603 new game
new game's picture

I am in Texas looking for a small hobby ranch in e. tx. bring it on!

seems to me tx & oky would be natural fits for this movement.

needs to happen b/4 calis fuck it up like they did in nv.

austin is movg lib way fast-sucking a fed tit-not good...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:16 | 4524858 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."needs to happen b/4 calis fuck it up like they did in nv."

Just the other day, while at lunch with a client, I brought up this very subject of denizens of Californication moving into an area like fucking locusts and destroying the place; the local chamber fucks in cahoots with the Real Estate whores fleecing the more-money-than-sense crowd.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 12:28 | 4525011 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

The cali new arrivals are easy to spot. They are the ones who jump 10 feet in the air when you shoot at them for trespassing. Those guys think the whole state is a park and have no respect for fences or property lines. Fortunately, so far they seem to learn fast.

It is comical to watch these guys burn through their cash, buying tractors they can't operate and animals they can't care for. All but one family has made it less than 3 years before they give up and move to the city. The family that blended in well came from rural cali so they were good people from the get go.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 12:27 | 4525009 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Welcome & good luck finding a place in ETx. If you move here permanently remember to file for your homestead exemption. Just tell the county clerk you want to do it and they will help you get it done.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:13 | 4524003 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

Just give it back to Mexico- who cares.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:07 | 4524151 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Or, even better, return to a Republic and live in peace. And be divorced from the goat worshiping money changing fools in DC. Never happen. The "union" would be on us like flies on two day fish.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:23 | 4524186 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

No state will ever secede for the same reason the EU won't break up. Our federal government is the only entity that can run a continual deficit. Th estates have allowed their budgets to expand so much that they cannot survive with out federal aid. the federal government had virtually voided states rights by issuance of currency. The Texas State National Guard receives the bulk of their funding from the feds. They cannot walk away without their own currency that will never happen unless the whole thing tanks, and then it really doesn't matter anymore. Broke states of the EU will not secede for the same reason. If Greece ain't gone, ain't none of them leaving.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:25 | 4524664 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Texas merely has to stop sending money to Washington and spend it themselves.

Y'all jist gotta make some new wooden nickles.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:08 | 4524710 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Texas doesn't send money but its people and its businesses do. Thats not easy to stop when everyone sees the IRS looking over their shoulder. It would be very hard to do without some serious blow back.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:59 | 4524816 Secede Or Die
Secede Or Die's picture

It starts with personal secession, then your neighborhood, group, business, town, county, and so on. Get started NOW if you have not already. Stop all communication with the statist's and stop sending them money. You will need to be clever, perhaps relocate to withdraw from their control, but it is possible....I have been living so for over 35 years.

Secede or die....join the revolution one person at a time.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:19 | 4524864 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

If you're reading this, you are the resistance.

Secession. It's what's for Liberty.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:35 | 4524230 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The refineries that refine Texas oil care.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:22 | 4524606 new game
new game's picture

crash, point well taken, once again back to the power base-black gold...

i am here and there is trucks running all over the place delivering oil field products.

job fair for oil field jobs today at Marshall tx. ads for jobs if you have a skill! entry level too,

if you are not afraid of working.

tanks pipes valves electronics, you name it. technology, manufacturing (welding, machining)-

the shit that made this nation great is alive in tx! the base of middle class wealth is alive in tx.

yea, it is a boom. but with oil at 100, i don't see this slowing down in the forseeable future.

tell me it aint true? my eyes are seeing it...

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 08:44 | 4524625 negative rates
negative rates's picture

They really are seeing an illusion, you're not still riding that broomstick ahead of that witch on the bicycle er ya? 

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 09:14 | 4524654 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

You are not worried about how Russia would react?

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 22:56 | 4523944 tokengator
tokengator's picture

Agree with the article in principle but Crimea is not voting for independence, I don't believe. I believe they are voting to join russia while Russia's military is on Crimea soil.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:31 | 4524048 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I can't decide which line of bullshit to believe; so I don't believe any of it.......

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:52 | 4524107 tokengator
tokengator's picture

Well when discussing Texas seceding and Crimea leaving to become part of russia I think the distinction kind of matters. 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:03 | 4523953 One And Only
One And Only's picture

"The EU interfered with Italian elections"

What elections? We're in year 3 where the leader of Italy has been appointed.

"There can never be any justification to deny the people the right to be heard. That is the oldest right..."

Yanukovych was elected by the people. If the people wanted him out...they need to wait for the next elections. An armed mob should not dictate who and who is not the leader of the Ukraine. If that is how democracy works perhaps the tea party should arm themselves and occupy the white house and the capital. Obama would apparently support that.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:21 | 4524021 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Yes! Please. I have been asking this since egypt when 200,000 protested in the streets of a city of eight million and the world claps in unison that the leader must go! How many of us need to show up in Washington for Obama to graciously step down, given his obvious support for revolution?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:08 | 4524152 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

200,000 more than the US government can kill.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:38 | 4524328 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"Yanukovych was elected by the people. If the people wanted him out...they need to wait for the next elections."

Um, I'm calling bullshit. Elections are only as good as the system that delivers them. Just because someone gets elected, doesn't mean they have political legitimacy. Elections get rigged and corrupted all the time. The political system in Ukraine is a complete joke and the people there are simply fed up and snapped.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 01:52 | 4524334 One And Only
One And Only's picture

The opposition to Yanukovych admitted that he won during the last election cycle. 

So mob rules? Any armed mob can just overthrow any democratically elected government or leader?

Is that your position?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:01 | 4524344 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Don't be an ass. "Any" armed mob? Where did I say that?

A corrupt and illegitimate government is corrupt and illegitimate, whether it got "elected" or not.

In the Soviet Union, the communist party routinely received 99.9999% of the vote. They "won" the elections, every time. What would you call that?

Get your head out of your ass, scrape the shit off, and use it to think.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:19 | 4524353 One And Only
One And Only's picture

The Phildadelphia Inquirer reported today that, in 59 precincts in inner-city Philadelphia, the GOP nominee received not a single vote. And according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, nine precincts in Cleveland returned zero Romney votes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-earned-zero-votes-in-some-urban-preci...

What country do you live in?

If it's the United States...

according to your rationale it's time time for an armed mob to overthrow the US government.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:24 | 4524366 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Again-- where did I say anything about an "armed mob"?

But your point is well-made. Yes, there are a number of illegitimate governments currently operating on this continent, on various federal, state, and local levels. This is a problem that demands redress.

It is unfortunate that your mind is only big enough to hold two alternatives:

1) "elections are good, if someone in authority says that some other person won an election, they automatically have political legitimacy."

2) "overthrow using armed mob!"

A rather unfortunate failure of imagination on your part.

Incidentally, the "mob" that "overthrew" the Ukrainian "government" was NOT armed.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 02:38 | 4524382 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Do you believe in an armed mob taking over a democratically elected government?

(yes they were/are armed)

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 01:08 | 4526964 moonstears
moonstears's picture

 "Elections are only as good as the system that delivers them."...so glad we have Diebold in the USA ;)

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:01 | 4523961 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I've said it before...

Government is the problem.

Doesn't matter which ficticious line is drawn around you.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4523966 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

We all know the people have the right to determine their own destiny, as long as their choice is the right one, and if not then it will need to be redetermined by overlords who know better.  So people must either choose to be oppressed, or have oppression forced upon them.

And that is true in every country on the planet.  Some admit it openly, and the USA doesn't.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:07 | 4523985 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

You said it Smeg.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:03 | 4523973 buckwheat5000
buckwheat5000's picture

Let's see, US Asst sec state Nuland who bragged about spending $5 billion to overthrow old gov in kiev, - JEW, Leader in new gov in Kiev - JEW, billionaire oligarchs appointed governors or regions, - JEWS,
US media owners - JEWS, main US political contributors - JEWS, US banking owners - JEWS,
New gov in kiev have passed a law to privatize state oil and gas company, even though no one elected them, who do you think will benefit? JEWS 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:03 | 4523974 buckwheat5000
buckwheat5000's picture

Let's see, US Asst sec state Nuland who bragged about spending $5 billion to overthrow old gov in kiev, - JEW, Leader in new gov in Kiev - JEW, billionaire oligarchs appointed governors or regions, - JEWS,
US media owners - JEWS, main US political contributors - JEWS, US banking owners - JEWS,
New gov in kiev have passed a law to privatize state oil and gas company, even though no one elected them, who do you think will benefit? JEWS 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:30 | 4524045 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And Nuland said...what was it again?..."fuck the EU"...which in your world, is run by...ummm...

...yeah, makes perfect sense.

So what do we have goin on here (in your view)...joooish tribes (Putzinski & Redline Ralphman included) at a voiciferous war of words with each other or what?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:12 | 4524159 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

You're assuming that disagreements don't occur?

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:39 | 4524240 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I was assuming the commenter had something to add, besides assumptions backed by nothing but rhetoric.

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:07 | 4523982 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Tyler where's the boeing story? 

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:21 | 4524024 Bonapartist
Bonapartist's picture

The pension freeze or the cracks?

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