This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Martin Armstrong: Obama "Using Same Nonsense As Putin"
Via Martin Armstrong of Armstrong Economics blog,
For Obama to claim that a public vote in Crimea would violate the Constitution of Ukraine and International Law is really just as absurd that the same argument put forth by Putin that nothing in Kiev was legal because it was not signed by Yanukovych. There should be a vote, but it should be monitored independently to ensure it is real. To argue that no state may move to secede from a federal government is ridiculous. Obama said:
“Any discussion about the future of Ukraine must include the legitimate government of Ukraine. In 2014, we are well beyond the days when borders can be redrawn over the heads of democratic leaders.”
Texas has the ABSOLUTE right to secede from the United States if it so desired and the Washington has no right to invade Texas to prevent that – although they too would in the blink-of-an-eye. There are no “democratic” leaders in Kiev as of yet because this is a grass-roots uprising that distrusts anyone who has EVER been in government before.
Meanwhile, you cannot say the people have no right to decide their own fate because this violates the will of “democratic” leaders. No elected official has the right to trump the wishes of the people and let us call a spade a spade – the EU suppresses the right to vote because they are afraid the people in Europe would vote against the euro. The EU interfered with Italian elections and it threatened Georgios Papandreou of Greece that it was NOT ALLOWED to allow the people to vote on staying in the Euro. Greece back-down and did not allow that to take place – so much for democratic ideals.
Let the people decide and YES we can redraw the borders if the PEOPLE so desire. If splitting Ukraine PREVENTS war – then so be it. The word for “slave” in Latin is “servus” and that is the root of public servant. Politicians should remember they are NOT the dictators of the people, but the servants of the people. There can never be any justification to deny the people the right to be heard. That is the oldest right...
»
- 21918 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Did they find it or is it still not a story?
anyone here about the 10 billion dollar chevron frack deal.
so we have the most lovely organic fertile land a bread basket.
chevron fracking and monsanto wheat and corn prairies real freedom real nice.
The new strain of corn to be grown there is to be called Chevronsanto.
Sub-surface fracking activity together with cutting edge GMOs will create a new corn species providing hybrid ethanol that will boost average fuel consumption by 30% and produce a fructose sweetening by-product that will increase human mortality rates by 60%.
It's an NWO win-win!
If this is your army, why does it go?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_OpFxCx-A
this is Putin answering the questions......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GdiZLdD-24
------
this is Obozo answering the same questions....
http://mashable.com/2013/10/18/a-few-good-men-bathtub/
:~) ......
At this point to vote for any political leader is equivalent to signing the commitment papers to an institution for your own protection. We no longer have the right to protest anything our government imposes on us. When Bush was president, Hillary said it was our patriotic right to protest. Now it is our patriotic right to be silent. To protest our government's actions is to challenge their authority,, to risk destabilization in a time of crisis (even though we have this huge and wonderful recovery going for five years now), or to demonstrate one's depth of racism and hostility to diversity AND enlightened thought. Freedom is dead. To argue about the rights and wrongs of Putin's actions is as relevant as arguing about the preservation of family values. Dead, gone, over, that horse has long left the barn. Mayhem, chaos and an open challenge for power is all we have left.
Why? Because we're humans...
That's how we roll.
Power.
If you don't hold it, you're under it. Same as always.
... drivin' the price of gasoline up...
Martin is a crook... period. Spent years in jail and went insane... now he thinks he is Napolean and Einstein and john Wadd rolled into one... ignore the dog turd.
He's a fruit. He denies various things that keys everyone into that he's part or was part of the boys.
It's Malaysia Airline Boeing777-200 missing from sky.
Boeing should get out of commercial aviation and just stick with being MIC whores.
It was vaporized by the U.S.N. as a trial run for their latest and greatest laser weapons platform.....
Governments, kings, or bureaucrats refuse to hear the word, No. If some thugs in my county take over the local courthouse, appoint a new judge and reward my property to one of theirs, must I obey? Wearing black robes, wearing a crown, displaying a badge, and having armed goons with you doesn't validate your claims. Who is Obama to make pronouncements on law, valid worldwide. Must the world honor his affirmative action education with total obedience? What black slaves did the Ukrainians, the Russians or the Crimeans ever enslave that requires their penance by obedience to Obama?
Whoever that dude is in the White House, I think he's in over his head.
"Martin Armstrong: Obama "Using Same Nonsense As Putin".
agreed.
but that is the proof in the pudding. both sides know they are recognized as both talking nonsense. a negotiated two state solution is the only way out.
one state ukraine. one state crimea. one country ukraine. ok call it new ukraine.
:)
wmm
The one who initiates aggression is wrong.
Which means every government that is not voluntary is wrong.
How about a two state solution where all of the assholes that want to rule the world live in one, and everyone who just wants to be left the fuck alone in the other?
Seriously, have we not noticed that people will move to relatively unpopulated areas with little or no governance and city type people will follow them out claiming to love the environment and then almost immediately start imposing the very same governance they claimed to be escaping. It is a mental disease.
"If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation.”[95] Andrew Fletcher
.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/07/understanding-the-ukrainian-cris...
Can you say BRIC?...
Can you say lots of "shiny metal" as collateral for financial transactions other than USD?...
I knew that you could!
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood... A beautiful day for a neighbor... Would you be mine.... Could you be mine...
Hi neighbor!
Some "whistling" to go along with Mr. Rogers tune!
India joins China in their support of Russia's VP.
Armstrong states the obvious.
People don't know what's best for them, that's why the people they elect must choose for them!
Ahh the 'logic' of modern government.
Because of how people are wired prevents them from understanding that government is wanted, not needed.
If businesses killed as many people as governments, the people would burn them down.
Not smart enough to rule ourselves but so excellently smart enough to elect those who can. I find it so hilarious that those on the left especially, harp endlessly about how important every vote is and how we should do nothing to inhibit the vote of even the slowest, dumbest, non English speaking illiterate fucks on the planet to ensure a truly representative government, while telling us all, every day that we are far too dumb to ever be able to make decisions for ourselves of even the most mundane nature. The fucking cowards just don't have the nerve to crown themselves, instead trying to convince us they are our servants.
It is true that Texas was provided a period of time after admission to the Union during which it could withdraw again, but the time lapsed without the State of Texas ever excercising that option. That provision is therefore long since a dead letter. That said ...
It is a matter of some curiousity (not explained as generosity of spirit by Radical Republicans) that the USG decided it might be imprudent to formally try Jefferson Davis for treason, which would have put the question of lawful right of succession of a state squarely before the Supreme Court, thereby risking possibility of a judicial finding contrary to what had been recently coerced only by force of arms.
Since the right of a people to separate themselves from what they regard as unjust rule is essential to the entire meaning of the Declaration of Independence, it therefore remains a logical contradiction that any government could legitimately limit exercise of that right by a legislature representing a whole people who, in the majority, wish to formally separate.
Crimea will only be the most recent test of that principle, with the outcome once again likely determined only by force of arms. Pity liberty.
Where do you graze for (mis)information, or do you just make shit up? Does the NSA pay you to post here?
Neither the Joint Resolutions nor the Treaty Annexing Texas to the US says that-
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/texan01.asp
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/texan02.asp
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/texan03.asp
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/texan04.asp
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/texan05.asp
dup
You must admit that this is a great point by bh2:
"Since the right of a people to separate themselves from what they regard as unjust rule is essential to the entire meaning of the Declaration of Independence, it therefore remains a logical contradiction that any government could legitimately limit exercise of that right"
It's a valid logical conclusion, which is why I passed on my habitual vulgarity and confined myself to belligerence.
Half baked cakes taste like crap, and half baked arguments can inadvertently set back causes when people use CTRL-C/CTRL-P without thinking first.
It's a point of frequent confusion, so let me be clear:
Declaration of Independence: pretty words strung together as a rallying cry and organizing set of principles.
US Constitution: governing document with force of law.
Declaration of Independence: First step in a long journey on which we have suffered a rather nasty detour.
no your stupid bitchez
Putin, of course, has an argument leaps and bounds better than does Obama.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/06/looting-ukraine-begun/
Unfortunately, this US/NATO/IMF/BIS fuckery will not stop, only mutate.
If, in fact, the oligarch's or Kiev's henchman do start killing Russians in the East as seems probable, it would be very difficult to not intervene.
One hopes that there is enough sanity in NATO and CIA to stop stirring the pot before this thing gets away from them... .. .
..
"If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation.”[95] Andrew Fletcher
.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/07/understanding-the-ukrainian-cris...
.
Friday, March 7th, 2014 | Posted by Jonas E. Alexis
Understanding the Ukrainian Crisis Through the First and Fourth Centuries
…by Jonas E. Alexis
.
Just recently, Hilary Clinton has proved herself to be a Zionist buffoon
...
..."Sir Gerald Kaufman. He wrote,
“The current Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians.
“My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed. My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza.”[3]
.
"..We must organize the intellectuals and use them to make Western Civilization stink! Only then, after they have corrupted all its values and made life impossible, can we impose the dictatorship of the proletariat.”[92]
Munzenberg perhaps knew that intellectual ideas attract only a few people. Jean Paul Sartre and Albert Camus for example did not waste their time postulating philosophical arguments in the form of syllogism which would lead to metaphysical conclusions.
Sartre did attempt to do that in a few books but that only attracted a few individuals. Instead, he and Camus used drama and theatrical sketch to establish their highly existential point. Scholar Bram Dijkstra tells us:
“There is no more accurate documentation of the manner in which a culture perceives its moral and social mission than in the works of visual art it produces.”[93]" from same link. jea.
.
comment: the narratives are composed to make us crazy, its all just an enormous
plot that feeds on itself and establishes and destroys laws and rules as it goes
along to satisfy the madness of the day. fortunately, there are temporary reprieves
and opportunities of escape with a chance, however remote-slight yet immediate, to overcome.
.
BBC Now Admits: Armed Nazis Led “Revolution” in Kiev, Ukraine
By Tony Cartalucci
Global Research, March 07, 2014
.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/bbc-now-admits-armed-nazis-led-revolution-i...
.
"..Just as the West has done in Afghanistan, where it used sectarian extremists and terrorists to wage a proxy war against the Soviet Union in the 1980?s, only to end up turning on their “allies” from 2001 onward – the West will use the Neo-Nazis of Kiev only for as long as absolutely necessary before turning on them and dumping them. The BBC’s short piece exposing the repugnant nature of the forces that in fact led the so-called “Euromaidan” uprising is perhaps the first step toward achieving this goal." ..t.c.
.
comment: the political technique outlined above seems to be one
of the more dangerous, frightening and insane forms of
power imaginable yet inexcusably inevitable given the
"state" of the milieu.
.
@ "get away from them.."
it most surly will. there is a universal game that everyone,
everywhere, plays at crucial times or points of development.
crucial times. the game is called "let's go get lost". the idea
is to go on further and further until you are entirely lost,
where the game has "gotten away". then the task is to find one's
way home.
it is instructive and enriching in the geographic sense/realm.
when the game is played in the political and metaphysical domain the results
may vary but my guess is the game will most definitely get away from them.
just a guess
However, the 11 billion euros that the EU is offering Kiev is not aid. It is a loan. Moreover, it comes with many strings, including Kiev’s acceptance of an IMF austerity plan.
what a surprise, an old-fashioned bust out the joint.
Ukraine’s agriculture lands will pass into the hands of American agribusiness.
there's the prize right there.
The war will be nuclear.
btw, is anyone else wondering who's gonna take care of Chernobyl? does anyone remember Chernobyl? does anyone care?
heres a radical thought. just let them fight it out. what do we care. mind our own business and leave them alone. it will work out. if we are so worried about justice start right here in the u.s and arrest the criminals who run the show instead of worrying about the rest of the world. what are the odds of that happening. actually come to think of it they are getting better every day
The text of the referendum has been released. Your Choices are YES or YES.
Written in Russian Ukrainian and Tatar they are as follows:
Option 1: Are you in favor of Crimea joining Russia as a republic in the Russian Federation.
Option 2: Are you in favor of Crimea returning to the 1992 constitution and secede from Ukraine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX9Gf2orXjQ
Bob Seger Get Out Of Denver + Lyrics
“We are witnessing a large geopolitical game in which the game is the destruction of Russia as
a geopolitical opponent of the United States, or of its global financial oligarchy.”
When you listen to Asst. Sec. of State Ms. Nuland in Washington D.C. on December 13th, 2013, at the National Press Club, an event sponsored by Chevron, who claimed the USA spent $5 billion in Ukraine to "give Ukrainians the government they deserve" by destabilizing the elected government whose election was internationally monitored, you can really start putting the pieces together and seeing that what Mr. Yakunin is saying something that people should be paying attention to. Russia is not going to bow to the pressures of the West. So Russia may become much more militaristic and much more defensive in trying to stave off what Yakunin says is a global financial oligarchy.
The United States, through different agencies, they are starting to promote natural gas exploration, with Haliburton already in Poland, and Shell signed a deal with Ukraine last year. So there is this whole department, the Bureau of Energy Resources, that was set up in 2011 by former U.S. Secretary of State, HIILLARY CLINTON, Mr. (Carlos) Pascual, who by the way was a former American ambassador to Ukraine, and who now heads this department, asserted that his teams efforts had already weakened Mr. Putin’s hand, and helped lower Ukraine’s dependence on Russia for natural gas supplies to 60 percent, down from 90 percent.
Mr. Pascual said that his team had worked to help Ukraine and other European countries break away from dependence on Russian gas. So that’s what you have here: You have a trade war, a currency war, and you have an energy war. So this has nothing to do with freedom and democracy in Ukraine.”
Let's see, US Asst sec state Nuland who bragged about spending $5 billion to overthrow old gov in kiev, - JEW; Leader in new gov in Kiev - JEW, billionaire oligarchs appointed governors of eastern Russian speaking regions, - JEWS,
US media owners - JEWS, Main US political contributors and lobbists - JEWS, US banking owners - JEWS,
New gov in kiev have passed a law to "privatize" state oil and gas company, even though no one elected them, who do you think will benefit? JEWS
by getting shares for a song. Even though this government was not even elected!
Hitlary Clinton comparing Putin to Hitler - this is pandering to the jewish lobby to be demoncratic nominee. We all know where power comes from in this country. Don't believe a word you are told.
It is well known that jews do not like Putin as he did not like the jewish oligarchs in russia who stole a lot of the state assets. If you care to look. USA is controlled by jewish oligarchs.
The ONLY time that Putin has used any force is when NATO was trying to expand in Georgia and Ukraine, did you know with EU membership comes automatic military agreements, NATO BASES. The fools in Washington are playing their games, very dangerous games. Poking nuclear powers by trying to get missiles on their doorsteps. Are you ok with missiles in Cuba or other places so close to the US?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PrmgB8fOH0
ROCKPILE - LIVE 1980 - "Queen Of Hearts" - Track 12 of 18
Yeah... voting will *fix* things for sure.
It absolutely doesn't - that's why they let you do it.
ha ha ha; when thieves fall out they start playing "chicken and egg" logic to hide their black designs of Oligarchs parading as men of international justice and of due process in what constitutes elective rights.
After all the propaganda this Armstrong guy has written, I dare not to read anything from him. Bullshit once, bullshit forever.
Any "constitutional lawyer" would know that people define boarders, not the other way around.
The Constitution of Ukraine states that such issues must be decided on a national referendum. This article is a pile of shit.
The truth is that people gave their power away. Years ago, people were aware of pther people's power, they formed ideas and systems to guard against power being consolidated against them. But today, things have changed. People just want to watch TV, have inane conversations, watch a ballgame, over consume, etc..Meanwhile, as time passes by, they have less and less power until of course they will become completely impotent (powerless)
The state's boundaries belong to the country, not to the residents of the territory in question. If the entire country approves of the change, then the split should be allowed to occur. The civil war kind of estbalished this. I also laugh at china supporting this. By their logic the people of Tibet and Taiwan should be allowed to vote on whether they want to be independent or not. If China really believes that then please, let the vote in Tibet commence. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Let the people of Crimea decide. Let them vote and let the chips fall where they may. As for China and Tibet, that's periphery. I believe Tibet should be free, but we re speaking upon Russia. The problem with them is if America decides to go hot or Russia goes hot and China piles on.
For Obama to claim that a public vote in Crimea would violate the Constitution of Ukraine and International Law is really just as absurd that the same argument put forth by Putin that nothing in Kiev was legal because it was not signed by Yanukovych.
Let's start with Putin and Yanukovych
http://www.rferl.org/content/was-yanukovychs-ouster-constitutional/25274...
Dueling Constitutions
But a legal gap remains. According to the terms of an EU-brokered peace deal finalized on February 21, Yanukovych was due to sign a measure returning Ukraine to its 2004 constitution. (In 2010, Yanukovych restored the country's 1996 constitution, which hands greater power to the presidency.)
Yanukovych, however, failed to sign the measure. The omission appears to leave Kyiv in the kind of legal limbo that may prove fodder for future arguments against the current government transition.The 1996 and the 2004 constitutions are uniform when it comes to the reasons for removing a president, with Article 111 stating the parliament has the right to initiate a procedure of impeachment "if he commits treason or other crime."
However, it is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers.
It is not just Putin who is making that argument.
Now to Crimea
Texas has the ABSOLUTE right to secede from the United States if it so desired and the Washington has no right to invade Texas to prevent that
It is not the right analogy.
Crimea is an autonomous Republic more in line with territory here like Puerto Rico not a state like Texas. There is a fucking big difference here between a breakaway state and violating sovereignty or an autonomous republic/territorial goverment exerting it's right to join as a full state or leave the umbrella protection of the Ukraine/US. It is not secession, never was because they are already an autonomous Republic.
Autonomous Republic or State makes no difference. A decision to suceed would be dependent on the principle of wheather the association contract is voluntary or enforced ad infinitum.
Texas is a perfect analogy because the Federal Govt. reserves to itself the right to regulate immigration but yet refuses to enforce immigration laws by protecting Texas's border from illegal entry.
The Federal Govt. is in violation of contract which releases Texas from any previous duty or obligation to Fed Gov.
Mr. Lincoln's stance in the matter was that the States are contracted ad infinitum without recouse should the Federal authorities deem it in THEIR best interests to insist on a Union.
Hardly a voluntary association built on mutual interests and agreed upon obligations.
A violation in both letter and spirit of the US Constitution.
People seem to misunderstand how the adminstrative divisions work. They are more USSR based and different from what the West understands.
From least to greatest as autnomous entities
Okrugs
Oblasts
Republics
Unions
To put Ukraine in perspective
11 - 27 okrugs exist within an Oblast
Ukraine has 24 Oblasts with Crimea being an Oblast
Crimea is the only Oblast that is also a Republic in Ukraine.
The Ukraine technically has 2 capitals because of this even though it considered a unitary state under a single constitution, 23 Oblasts are under the central control of Kiev and the 24th Oblast Crimea even though politically seperate because it is a Republic has it tied governmentally to the rest of the Ukraine through the city of Sevastopol which technically is seperate from the autonomous Republic of Crimea and it's regional government.
A Republic has greater independence from the Central State than an Oblast so in this case Crimea most certainly minics a territory like Puerto Rico because of it's autonomous nature than a state like Texas which is less autonomous in the structure of Centralized Control.
Unions don't technically exist anymore at least not in an adminstrative sense unless you consider the Constitution which defines the unitary government of Ukraine which in turns groups the autonomous Republic of Crimea with the other Oblasts under one piece of paper as the modern equivalent of a Union these days. Either way the analogy of representating Crimea as an equivalent to a US state as opposed to a territory like Puerto Rico is the wrong analogy here.
Would you rather have
A- A liberal government
B- A conservative government
C- Syphilis
My personal choice would be syphilis. At least that can be cured.
In a "democracy", if the leadership or oligarchy has been financially reckless or parasitically thieving the people, it is only through recuperation through armed revolt, a people's choice to force a monetary system change or secession that will correct the situation. The international monetary system further complicates this as it is complicit with the thieving class who abscond with a people's wealth to hide it with the complicit countries' banking systems. This banking system conspiracy against the victim population too can be pressured to correct, or outright partially relieved, through a change in the monetary system fiat currency or conditions of secession or revolution resolution.
Amen
I am ready to revolt, just tell me when
The reality of today's world summarized :
Oil situation :
http://iiscn.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/jlliquidsworld.jpg
Leading to :
http://iiscn.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/bp-oil-price-2013.jpg
In other words current crisis is primarily a monstruous oil shock, and only the beginning.
Reminder :
Contrary to the legend on the above graph (barrel price), the first oil shock was much more the direct consequence of US 1970 oil production peak :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/US_Oil_Production_and_Imports_1920_to_2005.png
Associated to the rebalance of barrels revenues between majors and countries, and dropping of B Woods in 71 and associated $ devaluation.
The "embargo" an epiphenomenon, very limited, lasted 3 months, but pratical to hide US peak and "put the blame" on "the Arabs".
Geopolitical summary :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Seal_of_United_States_Central_Command.png/768px-Seal_of_United_States_Central_Command.png
Every state is a failing failed state -- especially the 'democracies'.
Vote this bitch!