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Diplomacy Fails In Ukraine: Putin Slams Kerry Plan, Kiev Issues Ultimatum, Crimea Suspends All Non-Moscow Flights

Tyler Durden's picture


While it may have been pushed back from the front pages to keep confidence high, things in the Crimea, and in Ukraine in general (which may or may not waved goodbye to its gold reserves) are going from bad to worse with every passing day, with the near term catalyst of course being this Sunday Crimean referendum vote, which seems like a done deal, and which will give Russia a carte blanche to annex the territory over the howls of protest from Ukraine's coup government, and the west of course.

Making this outcome one step clower, overnight the parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea adopted an independence declaration from Ukraine which is necessary for holding a March 16 referendum.

“We, the members of the parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Sevastopol City Council, with regard to the charter of the United Nations and a whole range of other international documents and taking into consideration the confirmation of the status of Kosovo by the United Nations International Court of Justice on July, 22, 2010, which says that unilateral declaration of independence by a part of the country doesn’t violate any international norms, make this decision,” says the text of the declaration, which was published by the Crimean media.

As RT reports, the document was adopted during an extraordinary session of parliament. 78 of 100 members of the parliament voted in favor of the declaration.

The Crimean parliament’s vote to become an independent sovereign state paves the way for the March 16 referendum for the Crimean Autonomous Republic and the city of Sevastopol to join Russia. If the referendum is in favor, the Crimean authorities will request for their country to become a constituent republic of the Russian Federation. The declaration was signed by the speaker of the Supreme Council of Crimea, Vladimir Konstantinov, and the head of the Sevastopol City Council, Yury Doynikov.


“We adopted the declaration of independence to make the upcoming referendum legitimate and transparent,” Konstantinov said. “Now we declare ourselves the Republic of Crimea, we don’t add ‘autonomous."


After Tuesday’s declaration of independence, Crimea will never rejoin Ukraine, Konstantinov added. He said that Crimea will adopt the Russian ruble as its currency soon after the referendum.

Not unexpectedly, the west, and Ukraine specifically, continue to make loud noises over the referendum, with the latest development is Kiev sending an ultimatum to Crimea. Guardian reports that "Ukraine's parliament has warned the regional assembly in Crimea that it faces dissolution unless it cancels a referendum it has called to join the region to Russia."

A resolution, supported by a parliamentary vote, gave the Crimean parliament until Wednesday to call off the referendum, due to take place on Sunday. The Crimean parliament on Tuesday passed a motion stating that it would become independent in the event of a yes vote and then seek to join the Russian Federation, arguing that "the unilateral declaration of independence of part of a state does not violate any international laws".

There is the minor matter of enforcing this ultimatum in a territory largely controlled by Russian forces:

Also on Tuesday, the acting Ukrainian president, Oleksander Turchinov, announced that a new national guard would be formed in response to Russian attempts to annex Crimea.


Turchinov said mismanagement of the armed forces under former president Viktor Yanukovych meant that the Ukrainian military had to be rebuilt "effectively from scratch". The acting defence minister said the country had only 6,000 combat-ready infantry compared with more than 200,000 Russian troops on its eastern borders.

Good luck with that.

But aside from the actual area of physical confrontation, the real conflict continues behind the scenes. It is here that we find Russia president Putin has apparently rejected a U.S. proposal to resolve the dispute over Ukraine that had been put forward by Secretary of State John Kerry over the past week, according to senior Russian and U.S. officials. WSJ reported that "Mr. Putin's decision led Mr. Kerry to put off a Russian invitation to meet Mr. Putin in Russia, as early as the beginning of this week in Sochi, to discuss the Ukraine crisis, according to these officials."

Moscow and Washington on Monday each blamed the other for the diplomatic stumble and for failing to defuse the most serious U.S.-Russian standoff since the end of the Cold War.


Residents of the Crimean region of Ukraine are scheduled to vote Sunday on whether to secede from their country and join the Russian federation.


Despite the setback, U.S. and Russian officials stressed Monday that discussions on the former Soviet state were ongoing. The State Department didn't rule out Mr. Kerry visiting Moscow to meet Mr. Putin.


"The United States needs to see concrete evidence that Russia is prepared to engage on the diplomatic proposals we have made to facilitate direct dialogue between Ukraine and Russia," State Department spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said.

Send in the Kerry again perhaps? Speaking of political cadavers, ousted Ukraine president Yanukovich, whose political future even Putin said is over, appeared on TV earlier today and reminded everyone he was still the legitimate leader:

Ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has said in a televised press conference that he is still the legitimate leader of the country. It was his second statement made from the Russian city of Rostov-on-Don where he fled to when he was removed from power by the Ukrainian Parliament.


“I want to remind you that I am not only still the legitimate president of Ukraine but also the supreme commander of the army and I haven’t stopped my duties as president early – I am still alive.”


He took no questions from the press after his speech.


Yanukovych claimed that he was still the legitimate leader of Ukraine and that he fled Ukraine because of a direct threat to his and his family’s lives.


He added he would return to Ukraine soon.


He called the upcoming May 25 presidential election “illegal” and said that any government voted in would also be unconstitutional


He said the US and West should not be backing or funding the new “bandit” government which had carried out an illegal coup d’etat.

And then there is everything else. Reading Reuters:

A pro-Russian force opened fire in seizing a Ukrainian military base in Crimea on Monday and NATO announced reconnaissance flights along its eastern frontiers as confrontation around the Black Sea peninsula showed no sign of easing. Ukrainian activists trying to cross into Crimea to show solidarity with opponents of last week's Russian military takeover there said they were halted by men in uniforms of the now outlawed riot police. One of these fired at close range, hitting a man in the chest, apparently with rubber bullets.


With diplomacy at a standstill, Russia said the United States had spurned an invitation to hold new talks on resolving the crisis, the worst East-West standoff since the Cold War - although Washington said later a meeting of foreign ministers was possible this week, if Moscow shows it is ready to "engage".


The U.S.-led NATO defense alliance said AWACS early warning aircraft, once designed to counter feared Soviet nuclear missile strikes, would start reconnaissance flights on Tuesday over Poland and Romania to monitor the situation in Ukraine, flying from bases in Germany and Britain.


The United States on Tuesday will also begin previously planned military training exercises in the region, the first since the Russian intervention in Crimea. A U.S. Navy destroyer will participate in maneuvers with Romanian and Bulgarian warships in the Black Sea, across from Crimea. In Poland, U.S. fighter jets will take part in joint exercises.


* * *


On Monday, a Ukrainian defense official said a Russian-led military force of about a dozen men fired in the air as they took control of a Ukrainian naval base near the town of Bakhchisaray, though no one was hurt.


The force was accompanied by the base's Ukrainian commander. He persuaded a number of his men to join the Russian forces while allowing others who refused to leave, the Ukrainian official, Vladislav Seleznyov wrote on Facebook. The Russian force later drove off with nine Ukrainian vehicles.


Yarik Alexandrov, one of the Ukrainian naval personnel who refused to pledge allegiance to Moscow, told Reuters near the base that he and his comrades at first refused to surrender. "Then they started shooting round our feet and we surrendered," he said. "What could we do? We had no weapons."


Similar small confrontations have taken place at other Ukrainian bases around Crimea, although shooting has been rare and there has so far been no bloodshed. Russia denies its troops are involved - a stance ridiculed in Kiev and the West.


In a sign of the peninsula's growing isolation from the Ukrainian mainland, armed men prevented a convoy of cars from a Ukrainian activist group crossing into Crimea.


The group was part of the Maidan movement behind the protests that forced Yanukovich to flee to Russia. Ukrainian television showed men in the uniform of the Berkut riot police, banned by the new authorities for its role in shooting dozens of demonstrators in Kiev last month, blocking the road south.


One was shown firing twice, hitting a man in the chest. His injuries appeared minor, suggesting the use of rubber bullets.


In other armed action, Russian forces took over a military hospital and a missile unit. Reuters correspondents also saw a big Russian convoy on the move just outside the port city of Sevastopol near a Ukrainian air defense base.


It comprised more than 100 vehicles, including around 20 armored personnel carriers, plus mobile artillery.

In conclusion, just so there is no confusion about who is in charge of Crimea...


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Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:04 | 4533840 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

I expect an immediate drop in gold price.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:07 | 4533845 Arius
Arius's picture

Never, i mean never give up!


I expect Kerry and Lavrov will come up with something of a deal.. However, that news about the Iranian nuclear materials out of Ukraine is definitely not good for the country.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:31 | 4533858 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

The Crimea mess is going about as expected cause Russia is not going to let go of its access to the Black Sea no matter what now.

And because Obama!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:39 | 4533916 TerminalDebt
TerminalDebt's picture

"All flights cancelled expect for Moscow", I guess thats a bit more dramatic than saying "Two flights were cancelled"


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:17 | 4533992 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

This has to be one of the funniest editorials I have ever read. I literally laughed out loud after reading it.

From Russian Pravda:

The West's Unrequited Love - Ukraine

"The EU chased after the Ukraine as a homosexual chases after another man.  He wooed him with offers of sensual pleasures he thought he would enjoy. He was quickly rebuked and was filled with hatred and wrath. He invited his orgy lovers from the US to go after him like a child molester goes after a boy."

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:44 | 4534037 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

And they got this part right:

"There is no independence in the EU as Greece, Italy and Spain found out or even with the IMF. What does the West have to offer anyway? Sodom and Gomorrah? Is not their society upside down? They prefer to turn young girls into harlots or lesbians, young men into punks or gays. Their pornography spreads pedophilia like a cancer among children. Hollywood leaves them empty, filling minds with only sewage. An emptiness they try to fill with drugs, sex, music or the occult. "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin." Yet sin they promote here with billions of dollars. There is no independence they just want Ukraine as they once wanted Russia overthrown. They tried in 2012 against Putin with McFaul paying protesters in Russia thinking they could succeed as they once did a century earlier."

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:02 | 4534087 Independent
Independent's picture

This was a very good post on a yahoo article thought I would share it with you, the user is omega man:

“We are witnessing a large geopolitical game in which the game is the destruction of Russia as
a geopolitical opponent of the United States, or of its global financial oligarchy.”

When you listen to Asst. Sec. of State Ms. Nuland in Washington D.C. on December 13th, 2013, at the National Press Club, an event sponsored by Chevron, who claimed the USA spent $5 billion in Ukraine to "give Ukrainians the government they deserve" by destabilizing the elected government whose election was internationally monitored, you can really start putting the pieces together and seeing that what Mr. Yakunin is saying something that people should be paying attention to. Russia is not going to bow to the pressures of the West. So Russia may become much more militaristic and much more defensive in trying to stave off what Yakunin says is a global financial oligarchy.
The United States, through different agencies, they are starting to promote natural gas exploration, with Haliburton already in Poland, and Shell signed a deal with Ukraine last year. So there is this whole department, the Bureau of Energy Resources, that was set up in 2011 by former U.S. Secretary of State, HIILLARY CLINTON, Mr. (Carlos) Pascual, who by the way was a former American ambassador to Ukraine, and who now heads this department, asserted that his teams efforts had already weakened Mr. Putin’s hand, and helped lower Ukraine’s dependence on Russia for natural gas supplies to 60 percent, down from 90 percent.
Mr. Pascual said that his team had worked to help Ukraine and other European countries break away from dependence on Russian gas. So that’s what you have here: You have a trade war, a currency war, and you have an energy war. So this has nothing to do with freedom and democracy in Ukraine.”

Let's see, US Asst sec state Nuland who bragged about spending $5 billion to overthrow old gov in kiev, - JEW; Leader in new gov in Kiev - JEW, billionaire oligarchs appointed governors of eastern Russian speaking regions, - JEWS,
US media owners - JEWS, Main US political contributors and lobbists - JEWS, US banking owners - JEWS,
New gov in kiev have passed a law to "privatize" state oil and gas company, even though no one elected them, who do you think will benefit? JEWS
by getting shares for a song. Even though this government was not even elected!

Hitlary Clinton comparing Putin to Hitler - this is pandering to the jewish lobby to be demoncratic nominee. We all know where power comes from in this country. Don't believe a word you are told.
It is well known that jews do not like Putin as he did not like the jewish oligarchs in russia who stole a lot of the state assets. If you care to look. USA is controlled by jewish oligarchs.

The ONLY time that Putin has used any force is when NATO was trying to expand in Georgia and Ukraine, did you know with EU membership comes automatic military agreements, NATO BASES. The fools in Washington are playing their games, very dangerous games. Poking nuclear powers by trying to get missiles on their doorsteps. Are you ok with missiles in Cuba or other places so close to the US?

"Who elected the self proclaimed government of Ukraine? Obviously, no one elected them. They violently seized power in spite of the agreement they signed with the lawfully, democratically elected president. The current, self appointed government does not represent the people of Ukraine, they are interlopers who represent the interests of Ukraine's Oligarchs, and they are NOT interested in holding elections, because they know they would not win. So, by appointing the Oligarchs governors of the various 'provences,' they assure any election held will get them elected by hook or by Oligarch! "

In the end maybe the true intention of these thieves was the gold deposits of Ukraine and the national treasures, such as Schythian gold artifacts and countless paintings, statues, etc which will find their way into the private collector's market. The total theft could run into tens of billions of dollars. A few ringleaders have done quite well for themselves, I guess the Italian Job will pale in comparison to the Ukrainian Job pulled off by the Kosher Mafia

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:14 | 4534112 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Good thing Obama sent some gays as representatives to the olympics - that sure showed Putin who was boss!

BTW: Lighten up Independent;)

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:45 | 4534197 yogibear
yogibear's picture

What's Putin to think when he sees Reggie hanging around.  He knows the US is propagating smoking dope.


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:26 | 4534145 V in PA
V in PA's picture

"So this has nothing to do with freedom and democracy in Ukraine.”


-It (the this) never has, and never will.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:15 | 4534311 new game
new game's picture

and this earlier from zh:

Exxon's Black Sea gas drilling may be threatened by the referendum in Crimea. Exxon Mobil sought the rights to drill in 2012 and it is unclear as to the outcome if Crimea becomes part of Russia. (BBG)

connecting the dots to the source, econ hitmen, fascist regime of course(u know who) and counterparts.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:23 | 4534349 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

Lets not forget Jennifer Psaki was a part of the whole F U EU phone call debacle etc - that exposed the meddling of the USA -
And she's but a mere lassie of around 30!
Think Putin is quaking in his boots when some Ivy League pimplely prepster/threatens Russia?
The hubris and narcissism from these Obama Admin Ivy League scumbags is Unfreaking believable.
I'm sure these Ivy Leaguers are sitting around saying 'but but but Doesn't Putin know we are the 'best and brightest' and everyone should bow down before us?
Our Economy, world peace and Democracy would all be GREATLY enhanced if we outlawed all Ivy Leaguers from positions of power within the USA gov -

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:30 | 4534600 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Our Economy, world peace and Democracy would all be GREATLY enhanced if we outlawed all Ivy Leaguers from positions of power within the USA gov -

...or even just people with multinational citizenship.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:01 | 4534494 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Wonderful post "Independent". Fuck! We all know what is going on in the world, but the Jewish AIPAC here in the USA has made us all shut up about it like we were living under Stalin's rule. Jews have a rule, and have had for ages. "Any unit of money that enters the Jewish circle, must remain inside the circle". As they grasp with every trick known to man to seize assets, these assests will only be allowed to spread inside the Jewish circle". While they KNOW this is fact, they scream bloody murder when anyone dares point it out. They are out for the tribe, and all the rest of us are cattle. Fuck that.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:58 | 4534695 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Jack, you'll find this article an interesting complement to the one which Independent linked to. It describes how Kolomoysky, the oligarch to whom the "rebels" gave the city of Dnepropetrovsk as a fiefdom, may have had a role in the lack or suppression of Jewish outrage at the putsch by Ukrainian neo-Nazis.

As always, the standard disclaimer about all news reports being biased applies. Nevertheless, it provides an account of details which are suspiciously missing from Western media reports.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 13:16 | 4534752 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:53 | 4534683 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

Always look for the "Cui Bono" cardholder in a game of poker.


  1. If there's war (don't all laff at once) the various MICs benefit - up to the point of gigadeaths in which case bets are off.
  2. Putin plays chess, like many Russians do, I'm not sure if he plays poker, but he'd be a natural (ostensibly Obama loses)
  3. Crimea is 'lost' to Ukraine it would seem - barring a reverse landslide vote (again, don't laff - EthnoRussian Ukrainian Crimeans, and Tartars ain't in love with 'mother Russia to a man)
  4. The protecting "Forces" in Crimea will count the vote so yeah, 3. comes to pass on Sunday...
  5. BUT -- in so doing, Putin sets a very dangerous modern precedent regarding secession GLOBALLY.
  6. There are over 80 republics, oblasts, krais (territories) and autonomous regions in the Russian Federation -- many with EthnoRussian minorities and majotities who might like 'freedom' (but not the US version of freedom)
  7. COULD they break away? Of course not! Russia would treat them to a "Chechen" retribution. But Russia is BIG, has a plethora of ethnicities and could be engineered to fight on many fronts at once - just as the US seems to be spread between SE Asia, the ME, and E Europe.
  8. Who Gains? Not the Ukraine. They're toast courtesy of Nuland. The USA? Maybe not, there's 50 united states - but what if some tried to seceed? DHS would come to the rescue, 2bil bullets would help.
  9. What if some group wanted to split from a 28 member union? Much easier with a modern precedent.
  10. Cui Bono?

This week - Russia 'bono'

But a couple of years ago a basketload of US NGOs got booted from Russia, ostensibly for troublemaking (read: agitating) Could this agitating happen again? I think so.

Of course it's about Energy. But it's about OWNERSHIP. This is setting the Russian Federation up for a breakup and asset strip. Breaking up the USSR was just a landmark along the path.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:10 | 4534102 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

to further this decadence here, they even promote the "reform" of churchs according to this. By the way, the jews ortodox also promote gay and lesbian? if not they have to reform to.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:07 | 4534286 Flux
Flux's picture

"It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin."

Or you could just beat the lesbians with whips, then splash acid on them:

That'll teach 'em.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:29 | 4534378 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

So... the story you link to... Suggests they were peppersprayed, and then had antiseptic 'something' poured on them.  Not quite an acid attack, hmmm?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 13:00 | 4534702 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Ukrainian Junta Citizenism citizens are propagandists. Propagandists do not use facts to adjust to reality but as material to produce propaganda.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 17:09 | 4535757 Flux
Flux's picture

Russia's homophobia is well documented. As well as its abuse of women. Would you like the video clip of the Cossack goons whipping Pussy Riot?


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 13:26 | 4534804 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

how about burning them and you next time??  no reason to reason with liar scum

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 17:11 | 4535766 Flux
Flux's picture

Russia's homophobia is well documented. As well as its abuse of women. Would you like the video clip of the Cossack goons whipping Pussy Riot?


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:45 | 4534196 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Looks like the gloves are coming off. Next thing you know the innuendo will start mentioning Reggie Love by name...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:29 | 4534596 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

There must be recorded phone conversations somewhere, perhaps even photos.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:08 | 4534287 Blano
Blano's picture

Pretty good indeed.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 15:49 | 4535476 ultramaroon
ultramaroon's picture

Xavier Lerma, often published in Pravda, strikes again! He's full of zingers, like:

"Putin in 2009 outlined his strategy for economic success. Alas, poor Obama did the opposite but nevertheless was re-elected. Bye, bye Miss American Pie. The Communists have won in America with Obama but failed miserably in Russia with Zyuganov who only received 17% of the vote. Vladimir Putin was re-elected as President keeping the NWO order out of Russia while America continues to repeat the Soviet mistake."

"The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) reminded Muslim women who wear a hijab that they should tell the TSA officer that they may be searched only around the head and neck. It is their religious right they said.Wow, that’s great! They can search old ladies and nuns but not a Muslim woman. That makes a lot of sense. I’m sure we all feel safer now."

"Keep in mind in Syria the Christians are safe under Assad. If the West gets their way they’re all dead. I know Christianity is under assault in the West by the ACLU, but do they have to spread their hate everywhere?"

"Clinton couldn’t do it in the 90’s but Obama’s paid off justices in the Supreme Court were able to kick in government health care. Obamacare was forced to pass whether you like it or not. Wacky Judge Roberts just changed the word “penalty” and called it a “tax”. What was called unconstitutional by other courts is now legal. Whatever happened to “no taxation without representation”?"

"Say it ain’t so, America say it ain’t so! John Adams once said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Logically, the only way to fix America is for Americans to become “a moral and religious people”. I had a reader ask me why America became so bad over the last five decades. I wrote her many explanations that would fill a book, but she never was able to see the “light”. God is the only answer for America, which is the answer she did not accept. Is she the majority? If so, then the referee has counted to ten and it’s all over with a K.O. in the third round by the Prince of this world."

"You‘d think the Bilderbergers would join the Communists openly and wear hammer and sickle T-shirts like they do in Chicago. FYI for the brainwashed, President Vladimir Putin has been and still is a member of the United Russia party whose symbol is a polar bear."

"Ron Paul (Republican) seems to be the only honest politician left but even the Right wing conservative radio shows in America make him out to be a nut case because he says Iran is not a threat."




Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:01 | 4534083 Freddie
Freddie's picture

World War 3 started by Obama, Kerry, Clintons, McCain, NWO/Zato, EU(SSR) and the lying shit media covers for them.

Hey Ed Snowden - what did you do at the CIA and do you still work for them?  Crickets....

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:19 | 4534126 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

Obama is out to golf. He is no more than an image of power and scapegoat, with the sin of vanity. How could a person with his background could really grap power in his own hand, DC is not Disneyland. White Mickey had more conscience of his limit and choose to live in Neverland. Even old McCain have more power than Obama.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:59 | 4534240 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Ukraine's military is down to 6k combat ready troops while Yankabitch scammed all the money and ran to Russia.  What an ideal setup for Putin to march in and take over...  almost like it was planned or something.

Wouldn't it be very, very interesting if Mr. IMF himself (Putin) was actually behind it all from the get go?  Yankabitch was skimming too much and had to go.  Might as well make it a land grab while you're at it.  Just a conspiracy theory. 

Hey, has anyone found those FSB, err, CIA snipers yet?  Didn't think so.

Commence operation red arrow now:  Absolutely do not post a factual rebuttal, just down votes.  We don't want to discuss the truth.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:23 | 4534348 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


One fallacy at least by sentence.

Really impressive.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:33 | 4534395 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

March in and takeover what?  The Crimean Peninsula?  Eastern Ukraine, where the US wants to put missile defences?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:49 | 4534664 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Yeah, Crimea.  You know that land that was given to Ukraine.  That land that was included when Russia signed a deal to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine. 

I've said from the start that there should have been at least one referendum so don't go and try to say I'm against Crimea doing what they want.  That would be lying but not unusual on this site.

What I'm saying is the vote means nothing as long as Russian troops are in the streets. 

BTW, what you think the US wants to do doesn't really apply here.  There were no missiles or troops being sent.  If, in the future, Ukraine decides to host US or whomever then fine, it is their country, not Russia's.  This is not to say the US should take over Ukraine, quite the opposite actually. 

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:17 | 4534557 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

And you provide no examples or counterpoints - THAT is impressive.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:40 | 4534627 The.Harmless.Who
The.Harmless.Who's picture



Counter-point to what? 


You're a zionist shill who is beneath the contempt of those who are awake. 


Keep on lying - erm, i mean "posting" your lies. 





Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:41 | 4534631 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The US is the biggest lying ass country in the world and your beliefs consist of what is claimed by the US. If someone says something, that does not make it true.

In terms of past behavior, almost everything coming from the US can be judged a falsehood since America is run by pathological liars.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:36 | 4534404 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Here's one.

On Feb 21, all parties, including 3 foreign ministers of the EU, signed an agreement to hold early elections and stop the protests and coup attempt.  All parties agreed to this, including Russia, the EU and the US.

The next day the coup took place.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:21 | 4534572 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It would seem that all parties agreed to it but the people in the streets.  Word has it they were Ukrainians unless someone wants to suggest the grannies making molotovs were mercenaries. 

Why do you people think it is okay for all these countries to hold a meeting and decide the future of Ukraine and then complain about US/Banker/EU/Whatever imperialism? 

Let's have everyone get out and let the Ukrainians decide for themselves.  Oh wait, that would have to include Russia and people here seem to masturbate to the idea of Putin ruling over more people.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 13:17 | 4534755 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


It would seem that all parties agreed to it but the people in the streets.

Funny. The rebellion leaders, those glorious representatives of the people in the streets, agreed to it as well.

Why do you people think it is okay for all these countries to hold a meeting and decide the future of Ukraine and then complain about US/Banker/EU/Whatever imperialism?

See above. Any reason you might not want to include that detail in your narrative?

Let's have everyone get out and let the Ukrainians decide for themselves.

That's what the early elections, which the rebellion leaders agreed to, would have done. Very convenient for you to keep forgetting that mattering detail.

Oh wait, that would have to include Russia and people here seem to masturbate to the idea of Putin ruling over more people.

Waooo, Ukrainian Junta Citizenism nightmare fantasies of Putin give this guy erection, handling which leads him to spurt a few lines of propaganda. Who knew Ukrainian Junta Citizenism had such strong adhesion of fetishists to support.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:29 | 4534595 chunga
chunga's picture

Check out Dmitry Orlov's latest blog.

Written today:

The Crimean “Crisis” and Western Bias

The guest post from Renée last week appeared on this blog because Huffington Post refused to run it. And now I hear that no comment linking the new Ukrainian government to the neo-Nazis or the neo-Nazis to the mass murder in Kiev can get through on any news site. It seems like there is an actual news blackout on this message:



"It appears that the US State Dept. gave $5 billion to Ukrainian neo-Nazis who used some of the money to hire mass murderers who massacred protesters, policemen and bystanders in order to provide a rationale for overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ukraine and installing an anti-Russian puppet government."


That's about as short and sweet as I can make it. Please go and see how many places you can cut and paste that sentence. It would give us an idea of the extent of the censorship in the US. First they take over Ukraine, then Huffington Post, what's next? Your living-room?]

Bold by me...cut and pasted.

MSM would never censor anything like this, would they? Back to your regularly scheduled distraction.


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:40 | 4534624 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Putin should tell the Ukrainians that we are coming in to get the criminal billionaire oligarchs and their goons.  We will leave after they are arrested or killed the criminal oligarcahs and then you should have your own elections.   The Ukrainians would probably cheer. 

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:24 | 4533875 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:02 | 4534258 Cygnus Nigri
Cygnus Nigri's picture

Ich denke du meinst "Gott mit uns!"

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:28 | 4533882 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Tyler I hope you post this, this is the most hard hitting interview I have ever seen with Obama.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:46 | 4533914 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Our 'Primetime President' doing comedy shows.  Guy gets more TV guest appearances than an Oscar winner and more tee times than Tiger Woods. Over $1B to elect a celebrity nobody to the WH and his little sidekick Opie.


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:36 | 4534022 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

more like


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:03 | 4533965 spellbound
spellbound's picture

WOW!!! This is amazing. Comedy flirting with truth. WOOOOWW!!!


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:57 | 4533953 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

arius please change your name to

new arse holus

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:06 | 4533970 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I agree that the U.S. and Russia will come to some sort of agreement. Russia is dead serious about controlling the Crimea. The U.S. is just blustering. If Obama wasn't constantly trying to show other world leaders that he's in charge (classic short man complex), this whole thing would have defused weeks ago.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:45 | 4534041 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

How interesting & ironic that "Arius" is an anagram for "Rusia".

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:00 | 4534081 Dugald
Dugald's picture




   Its RUSSIA you pillock not Rusia

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:01 | 4534254 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Sorry to have to say this, but you and your Up-arrow pals are a Morons*, because...

Of course I know the name of the country is "Russia", but that's not what I said: I said it was an ANAGRAMArius IS an anagram for Rusia.  Which obviously alludes to "Russia".  Next time paid attention.

* Moron = an adult with a brain development equivalent to an 8- 12 year old child.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:59 | 4534688 Arius
Arius's picture

got to dig much, much deeper then "rusia" or "russia" ... you moron (as per your definition above)

you are stuck in the 20th century ....the world is just a bit older.

it seems to me your nose is the limit of what you can clearly see; no pun intended ... just an objective figurative statement ... do you dig?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:07 | 4534283 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Only in English is it "Russia"

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:21 | 4534131 Lewshine
Lewshine's picture

Matters NOT!! The whole world could be aflame - As long as the Fed printer is set on high...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:46 | 4534652 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

Arius, it is very difficult to believe there are still folks that express this kind of sentiment... stick around and learn.

Next move.... Ukraine requests NATO forces?

I still say the war will start in the Middle East... but what do I know?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:20 | 4533865 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Did you say a fall in the price of gold?

I doubt it.

More like a plunge when these bastards feel like it.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:20 | 4533866 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:27 | 4533885 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:13 | 4533982 RacerX
RacerX's picture

There will be COSTS you know.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:40 | 4534028 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Aye, if as with the past, to his own reputation on the world stage.

Not that he isn't the laughing stock already...just really a matter of how much more of a dumb fuck he wants the wider world to realise he is in the next three years.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:51 | 4534215 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

(Ink Spots; Maybe)

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:25 | 4533880 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

That 40 tons of Physical should be good enough for 400+ tons Paper shorts

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:17 | 4533993 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

And sure enough, lookin' at the gold price chart...

Though, I've been told the physical to paper ratio is more in the 1:1000 range these days.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:50 | 4534439 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture

a valid point, especialy when History is recalled. It was April 2011 when Libya "had" 144 Tons Gold, which also marks when gold began its decline. A good read here, and I'll paste a bit:


Libya all about oil, or central banking? - Asia Times Online
Asia Times Online 

Apr 14, 2011 - Several writers have noted the odd fact that the Libyan rebels took .... Monetary Fund (IMF), its central bank has nearly 144 tonnes of gold in its vaults

Newman quoted CNBC senior editor John Carney, who asked, "Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power? It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era."

Another anomaly involves the official justification for taking up arms against Libya. Supposedly it's about human rights violations, but the evidence is contradictory. According to an article on the Fox News website on February 28:

As the United Nations works feverishly to condemn Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi for cracking down on protesters, the body's Human Rights Council is poised to adopt a report chock-full of praise for Libya's human rights record.

The review commends Libya for improving educational opportunities, for making human rights a "priority" and for bettering its "constitutional" framework. Several countries, including Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia but also Canada, give Libya positive marks for the legal protections afforded to its citizens - who are now revolting against the regime and facing bloody reprisal.

Whatever might be said of Gaddafi's personal crimes, the Libyan people seem to be thriving. A delegation of medical professionals from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus wrote in an appeal to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that after becoming acquainted with Libyan life, it was their view that in few nations did people live in such comfort:

[Libyans] are entitled to free treatment, and their hospitals provide the best in the world of medical equipment. Education in Libya is free, capable young people have the opportunity to study abroad at government expense. When marrying, young couples receive 60,000 Libyan dinars (about 50,000 US dollars) of financial assistance. Non-interest state loans, and as practice shows, undated. Due to government subsidies the price of cars is much lower than in Europe, and they are affordable for every family. Gasoline and bread cost a penny, no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture. The Libyan people are quiet and peaceful, are not inclined to drink, and are very religious.

They maintained that the international community had been misinformed about the struggle against the regime. "Tell us," they said, "who would not like such a regime?"

(the entire article worth a reading)

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:05 | 4533843 freeasabee1
freeasabee1's picture

this drama is taking forever, get it on already.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:09 | 4533851 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

I know right? If I wanted mystery and intrigue I'd be watching the 'missing passenger plane' production instead.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:18 | 4533862 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I'm following closely in case a zh'er drops another "Crimean raver chicks gone wild" video link.  Spacibo!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:21 | 4533867 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

it's a bit like that episode LOST that just kept on going for season after season

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:13 | 4533847 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Kerry is getting Custered. Dog face should tuck his tail against his vagina and go home.  This is the major leagues and Kerry is a one-pitch pitcher serving up practice fastballs. 

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 13:51 | 4534925 SDShack
SDShack's picture

You'll know the end is near when Horse Face Kerry is sent to the showers, and Hair Plugs Bite Me Biden is put in to win it for the home team.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:09 | 4533849 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Over here we just launch golf balls, still dangerous if yer not lookin.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:02 | 4533948 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

The gnarly golf ball that McCain keeps in is left cheek is our top secret WMD. (as clarification: face cheek, not butt cheek )

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:10 | 4533852 Bosch
Bosch's picture

the howls of protest from Ukraine's coup government, and the west of course 



Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:23 | 4533871 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Life must be lived forward, but can only be understood, BACKWARDS!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:14 | 4533856 g'kar
g'kar's picture

Muster the FSA, to war!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:18 | 4533857 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Who is Kiev again? The Neo Nazis?

Masked individuals took over Kiev right?

I've lost track

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:23 | 4533870 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

like in all the bad guy movies, they're the once with the beards and the morning shine beards... evil bastards...

and did I mention they smoke sigarettes? damn... those guys are clearly the bad guys...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:09 | 4533976 RSloane
RSloane's picture

After supporting Al Qaeda in Syria the US has no problem supporting Neo Nazis in the Ukraine!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:26 | 4534008 kenezen
kenezen's picture

Very good but, little understood point! Thanks

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:48 | 4534201 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

and drug and human traffickers in Kosovo, and the most extreme mujahadeen in Afghanistan.  Frankly one's best resume for getting the west's support is to have done horrific things (as long as one can then act all democratic and peaceloving with Anderson Cooper).

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:14 | 4534305 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Indeed.  But I was actually hoping that someone would've pointed out the other obvious and precedent-setting point:

States of the USA being able to unilaterally secede, especially if recognized by other countries.  Eg., Texas, Southern California, etc.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:04 | 4534091 silvermail
silvermail's picture

You define the term "fascist" as a man in a mask?
How about Molotov cocktails?
How about snipers?
How about bloodshed?
By the way, the surgeons are always in disguise. In your opinion all surgeons is fascists?
People who eliminated Bil Laden were also masked. Do you think that Bin Laden was killed fascists?
And the last question: How are you feeling?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:22 | 4534343 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture



1) Try proofreading your post. Use MS Word to check for grammar and spelling, or if you can't afford it, download; it's free.


2) Hand your post to someone else to see if they can understand what you are posting. This post makes no sense whatsoever when translated into English.



Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:34 | 4534397 silvermail
silvermail's picture


Thanks for your advice. I'm sorry, my English is very poor. I tried to tinker with it:

You define the term "fascist" as a man in a mask?
what about Molotov cocktails?
what about snipers?
what about bloodshed?
By the way, the surgeons are always in disguise. In your opinion all surgeons is fascists?
People who eliminated Ben Laden were also masked. Do you think that Ben Laden was killed by fascists?
And the last question: How are you feeling?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:15 | 4533859 RealityCheque
RealityCheque's picture

Pulls up a deckchair, opens beer  8-D

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:57 | 4533952 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

It's still the Titanic.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:47 | 4534199 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Set and spike, lovely.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:15 | 4533860 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Gold breaks $1,353 this morning

Peter Schiff and GATA's Bill Murthy: The Real Value of Gold 

  It is time to listen and remind ourselves about the real value of Gold and what is coming next with all geopolitical games unfolding at the crucial levels for US Dollar and Gold markets. China is the major subject of conversation here again and Russia is already talking about the asymmetrical retaliation to the imposed by the West sanctions around the Ukraine situation. Gold manipulation can not go foreverwith China buying the record amount of Gold officially and who knows what are the real numbers in its state-level military plan to accumulate Gold for the De-Dollarisation reset?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:29 | 4533889 Ulterior
Ulterior's picture

it never broke through 1353 today

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:19 | 4533861 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Merkel gets her gold, Poland got a Nato straw man on its Western border, Putin gets the Eastern Ukraine, Kerry gets home just in time for sailing season and Obozo does not miss a round of golf.  All just in time for the NCAA playoffs.

Optimal resolution no?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:33 | 4533897 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:46 | 4533936 highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

williambanzai7    Thanks   for all you have done......   

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:55 | 4533950 DOT
DOT's picture

Don't ya just love re-runs!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:59 | 4534078 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Golden "dickey" ... nice touch from the WB subconsciousness.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:24 | 4534143 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

John Wayne (Putin) to Bruce Dern (John Kerry) in the move "Cowboys"...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:17 | 4534319 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Whoops:  Poland got a Nato straw man on its "Eastern" border

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:27 | 4534369 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture



It's OK.


Now, when are you going to apply your genius to take out Hills?


Creative idea:


Hillary - the Orwellian Joker-noire


The Hillary face on the button entitled "Ready" that her PAC is selling is almost a caricature of the Joker. Some minor touching up, and you'd have it.

In addition, the lack of background makes it perfect to use in the 1984 scene from the Apple Super Bowl commercial with the face up on the screen.

Creative idea: I don't do this professionally, or I would: 1) Crate the Joker take-off on her face; 2) Do a merge of the Obama Joker face merging into hers, communicating that this is really just one Joker followed by another; 3) Place her face on the screen that everyone is looking at in the "1984" Apple Super Bowl commercial;

If you are good at video, then 4) Create a YouTube video of the transforming Obama to Hillary Joker face in motion; 5) Take that segment of the "1984" Apple Super Bowl commercial with all the people walking in, and put her up as the face on the screen - of course, post it to YouTube.

Now, send the links to either the art or the video, or both to every on-line news outlet you can think of - might as well start here, or with The Hill, since they are the ones who posted the t-shirt that will be the jump-off point for this idea.

If you are a graphics, or video artist, never forget the great publicity those who did up the Joker of Obama received - it is still viral to this day.

And don't forget the impact your art and video will make in putting Hillary into her proper perspective - an Orwellian Joker-noire.

If you don't do this type of art work yourself, please copy and paste this in an email to everyone you know who does do it.

To find the picture I referenced, go to the web site readyforhillary, then go to / shop now / scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Please help us find someone to do the artwork - ridicule is amazingly effective.

Please take this creative suggestion seriously, and start Hillary’s campaign off as the Orwellian Joker-noire that it really is.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 15:14 | 4535322 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

Whoops:  Poland got a Nato straw man on its "Eastern" border

And this is why they are going to arm themselves up to their teeth with U.S. DOD surplus:

Polish government announced contracts for the modernization of the army of unprecedented worth of US$46 billion (140 billion zlotys)  (Google translation)

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:37 | 4534409 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Technically, Merkel/Germany does not her/its gold.  Looks like the OPM principle at work again, and they might be getting other people's gold.  ;-)

When you're "doing God's work", you get to 'take' and 'give' as God would, it seems.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:18 | 4533863 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The world does not have problems. It just has problematic people.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:48 | 4534049 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

It's genetic.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:23 | 4533873 youngman
youngman's picture

I think the rest of the Ukraine has to vote to join the USA....then we could occupy it with our military.....they would like it..beautiful women there...and boy would that piss off Putin...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:33 | 4533896 negative rates
negative rates's picture

You'd better stop thinking, cause your about to lose your voice, and you don't talk to good with your fingers.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:45 | 4534040 toady
toady's picture

I like it. That's probably the only way to deter Putin. He would go absolutely ape shit!

The timeframe is too short to schedule it on the same day as the Crimea vote. Maybe Merkel can claim the western Ukraine is part of the fatherland. They did own it for a few years in the 40s.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:24 | 4533876 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

You'd best provision yourselves. I've no doubt these Nazis running the Washington/Wall Street Corporation mean to have a war.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:50 | 4534052 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

IOW:  Pack, Stack, Rack.  Then wait for "What the frack?"

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:25 | 4533878 Mister Ponzi
Mister Ponzi's picture

This is priceless: Using Kosovo as a precedent. The west knows very well that the ICC decision was violating international law but bullied the judges into this decision (as was confirmed by one judge from Japan if I remember correctly). After this decision, there is no way the west can claim the validity of international law anymore. And politicians like Merkel who claimed that Kosovo was a special case and by no means a precedent should argue which principles holding in the case of Kosovo do not apply in this case. (Of course, the principle is that Serbs, Chinese, Russians, Iranians and Syrians do not have the same rights, but noone dares to state this openly.)

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:42 | 4533924 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

So true!!   Right on the money   using the west medicine for the cure.   Note to west...whats good for the goose is good for the gander.



You establish a precendent in Kosovo and now it's being used against you USA  stop being a hipocritical.

The fat lady has sung already, Crimea is now part of the Russian federation, the question is what happens with Ukraine and how far does Putin push this?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:55 | 4534465 Zadig
Zadig's picture

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" is the empire's only real law. 

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:32 | 4533883 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"Then they started shooting round at our feet and we surrendered. What could we do we had no weapons?"


Let that be a lesson to all you liberal fucks who want everybody disarmed. 

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:28 | 4534593 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

If all guns are outlawed, only outlaws (oh, and 'law enforcement') would have guns.

Don't you feel safer already?  I am amazed at how slow people are to realize the above fact.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:42 | 4534639 Zadig
Zadig's picture

There's some sort of mass psychosis that prohibition actually works.   Making something illegal has never prevented it from ever happening again, but stating this almost always results in bizarre tantrums when it's clearly self evident.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:02 | 4533962 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

They never listen Doc....ever.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:28 | 4533886 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Its on like Donkey Kong.

Yippy Yi Yippy Yea Yoppy Yip Yip Yip

FU Goldman Sachs.

How do you beat a globalist?

Answer: With a stick.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:34 | 4533903 negative rates
negative rates's picture


Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:33 | 4533888 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

So with Crimea (then possibly Donetsk and Luhansk) separated from Ukraine, then a fresh election in Ukraine will have a much reduced pro-Russian vote and therefore have no trouble electing a pro-EU party.

The EU is probably prepared to settle for that.

Putin would settle short term, happy to get the Crimea, but it won't stop his longer term ambitions. He wants Ukraine to join the EEU, not the EU:

From a purely economic angle, joining the EEU is probably better for the people of Ukraine as EU membership comes with crippling austerity measures and looting via forced asset sales.

The US won't accept any compromise though. NATO doesn't want the EEU to exist. This is just getting started, Putin's currently in the lead with Belarus and Armenia under the belt, soon to be part of Ukraine.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:45 | 4533929 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

excellent comment. I somewhat disagree on the implied will of the US (and NATO). from my perspective, experience and witnessing, the whole EU thing not what the US ever really wanted. even when Russia is against, Uncle Sam is not really for

as such, EU membership does have to come with "crippling austerity measures etc". this is more the realm of eurozone membership, through the various treaties that accompany this, for example the European Fiscal Compact. yet Ukraine, as the UK, does not qualify anyway and both won't for a long time

the package lately offered to Ukraine was not fair, imho. yet it can and should be bargained on, particularly when it comes to railroads. note, though, that railroad standards are a military matter, too

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:39 | 4534168 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Yes, I think eurozone membership is likely never going to be on the table. I'd go further, to say that even EU membership is not on the table, realistically. I think Putin knows that, so all he has to do is sit back, let Western Ukraine go through the motions of trying to align with the EU, then run into a wall and collapse into his lap.

If he's diplomatic, he'll leave existing borders where they are and accept an intact Ukraine into the EEU. The desire of Eastern regions of the country to join Russia and redraw boundaries is actually something of an embarrassment for him and an inconvience to his longer term plans. He may well politely refuse, to avoid giving the US any leverage, or he may simply take the short-term gain. He's crafty so we'll see.

The EU seems very half-hearted when it comes to Ukraine, whereas Russia seems far more determined. It's no surprise given the wide range of problems the EU has to deal with at the moment. You surely have a better feel for this than I do, so would I be correct in saying that EU sentiment places Ukraine as a lost cause that would be better off (a better fit) in the EEU rather than the EU for cultural reasons?

That's certainly my own opinion, and I don't say it lightly, being married into a Slavic family with strong business ties into the EU and owning land in the borderlands of Poland, Ukraine and the Slovak Republic (ie, decidedly cool towards Russia)). I get the split between wanting to be with the EU, wanting to be with Russia and wanting to be left the hell alone. It's complex.

While I think that Ukraine is better off in the EEU, given that it's in dire need of economic support, I'm not convinced that the world is better off with the EEU. If I could see Putin leading by example and making a believable attempt to stamp corruption down to an acceptable level (by core-EU standards) then I would have more confidence. Russia has made improvements, but there is a long way to go. Ukraine is even worse. Unlike most of those in the West though, I'm quietly optimistic. I've found this quiet optimism to be surprisingly shared by many Eastern expats.

Finally on the US. I remain a little confused and tend to put it down to the cultural differences that exist between the EU and the US (extending to the English-speaking world in general). It's probably not correct, but I certainly perceived it this way when living in both empires. I feel that European culture has caution imprinted in its DNA (perhaps from generations of slaughter), whereas American culture is far more carefree, leading to carelessness and a severe lack of finesse when the US operates in Europe. It does seem that America remains hell-bent on retaining global dominance, despite the obvious fact that the underlying US economy can no longer support the empire as it stands.

Care to go into more detail about the differences (as you see it) between what the EU is and what the US wanted the EU to be? A complex, multi-headed beast vs a United States of Europe?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:46 | 4534651 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The criminals in Brussels may dangle the promise of EU membership.  The whole Ukraine illegal coup govt is filled with oligarchs and criminals.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 13:17 | 4534761 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

of course the EU is half-hearted. originally, many western members were nearly forced to offer EU membership (the carrot) for NATO membership (the stick the US wanted) to our eastern peers. compare when Bush offered the EU membership to Turkey, and how the european reaction to that was (way stronger than to Nuland's insignificant words)

at the end, our members have distinct national characters. Poland's heart bleeds for Ukraine, and this feeling is shared by the Baltic States. and Poland leads the pro-Ukraine faction and is influential in the beware-of-Russia faction, which is larger than the first, having members like Sweden, Finland, Romania and Bulgaria who care less about Ukraine and more about the right stance toward Russia, knowing the cuddly bear so intimately

meanwhile most eurozone members loath proposals about EEU. those are very similar to all the proposals the UK puts forward, all mired in having several speeds and complicate matters to absurdity. Germany, France, Italy, the BeNeLux in particular are sick of all this softening and special exceptions and special statuses - they start to reek sabotage. they wish for a hard border, and a more streamlined, focused EU. The Six founding members sometimes even wish they would be back to this number, perhaps with Austria thrown in

at the end, American and British diplomatic sentiments versus the EU are always around free trade (when it's not NATO, of course). the fact that we want free flows inside the EU means for them that we are in favour of full-monty-globalization, or that they can have our support in certain areas of it. yet this is politically... unfeasible. our electorates agree in general with the 4 freedoms, yet they are otherwise the opposite of globalization exponents. note how hard the US AgriBiz lobby is pushing for letting GMO food enter our borders, best unlabeled and remember that we don't have that many liberals. our two main political stances are conservative and socialist. with protectionist tendencies

add in the UK, with it's "special relationship". this is further complicated by the fact that America's very best friend in the EU is actually... Poland. but don't evah try to talk about GMO in Poland, you could get in trouble

you are correct, we are more cautious, particularly with Russia, then there is no natural moat between the Bear and us

meanwhile I'd hazard the guess that the whole US diplomatic corp has never understood The Six Founders. they think in terms of "as the US", hence a "united states of europe". the first to propose this was an Anglo-American called Winston Churchill. he got the gist of the spirit of the times, yet misunderstood the details of how continentals tick on this matter. or our views on federalism vs. confederalism. we can't be a federation, not for at least a few generations. yet we are willing to dance as peers a confederate party, to the tunes of a new Concert of Europe. our new eastern peers somewhat agree, yet the Iron Curtain Experience did change them, and they sometimes revert to a semi-conscious wish for hegemonic clarity

hence the one-trillion-for-seven-years budget for the EU org. a disposable org, may I add

Wed, 03/12/2014 - 13:25 | 4539364 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Great post Ghordius. We're very much on the same page, which may surprise you given that I'm very "British". Although drowned in free-trade propaganda from a young age, I never found difficulty seeing the horror in it (I've found that Canadians seem more attuned to the Continental perspective than Australians and New Zealanders. Brits and Americans are a lost cause).

I asked you in the past, but don't recall if you answered; have you read "The Rational Optimist" by hypocrite extraordinaire Matt Ridley? It relentlessly evangelises, providing deep insight into the ideology of the "Oceaneans" (as I recall you referring to us). Enlightening and infuriating. The whole book is one big example of cognitive bias in action.

They are like religious zealots, seeking to convert the "unenlightened" Continentals to the ways of the "righteous". Thank God you Continentals say "fuck off" here and there, although failing to resist in some cases (particularly on intellectual property).

One thing the United Corporatocracy of English (UCE) just doesn't seem to understand, with regard to the EU, is that a strongly bonded union Is easier with a common language and a common culture. Political, fiscal, monetary and legislative union is very, very difficult without social union (language and customs). The UCE just doesn't get the reality of the EU.

That's why the EU always has to be a go-slow process and the UCE shouldn't try to force expansion faster than societies can adjust. I think we're in agreement that the EU has over-reached, and should backtrack to consolidate. IMO, the internet is the most powerful supportive factor for maturation and stabilisation of the EU, as it helps younger people to communicate and develop more of a shared perspective (without having to homogenise culture, as the UCE expects). Unity will happen naturally over time and it's a mistake to try and force it. When the talking breaks down then the council falls apart and conflict returns.

I think that this is also one of the core failings of the eurozone. A common currency puts the cart in front of the horse, requiring fiscal and legislative union, which is resisted by cultural differences. Nations like Greece simply were not ready. It's interesting to hear that you primarily blame the UCE hand in this as I encountered many Continentals, back in the day, who were keen to expand.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 08:36 | 4542087 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I noticed that some were quite pissed off when I used "Oceanians" - as in the "1984" book where "Oceania was always at war with Eurasia". Some must have thought I was shooting at Australians and New Zealanders. So I discontinued the use of this term in my comments. yes, somehow Canadians have a better understanding on how we tick. perhaps because they have a French linguistic minority?

no, I have to read this book

note that we can't say "Fuck off" too often, or too loudly

yes, a common language and common culture does help to... talk about the same. nevertheless, note that the real conflict in the EU is at the moment between eurozone countries that do broadly agree on the same set of policies and the UK that wants to go in a different direction... without having clear ideas yet on where, besides moar "free trade"

I do not agree in principle on the "EU has over-reached". it is more or less there where the moderate center of the eurozoners expected it would be, by now, the stage of proto-confederation. of course, our federalists would prefer to push further. note that it's a funny coalition of mainly western social-democrats and eastern liberals

I 100% disagree on the usual "UCE" view of the EUR being "the cart in front of the horse". the eurozone is different, when it comes to finance. our banking systems are different from the Anglo-American "template". our understanding of banking is rooted in a different "financial culture", and our understanding of currencies and the current currency wars is different. hell, even our average corporate structures and financing ways are different

for our national eurozone currencies, the option is to either orbitate closely to the USD... or less closely yet together in what we call the EUR

we are willing to have a more stable monetary policy set through consensus of the 18 national banks... and have the national fiscal policy setters to have to cope with the results. no fiscal and legislative union needed. it's the US and the UK that are joining our federalists (particularly on the left) in asking for that. see me in the corner quietly muttering "FU" together with many others and... dragging our feets. the whole concept of a nation finely tuning both policies... is both a Neo-Keynesian hogwash and does not work well for small-to-medium nations in an environment like this. note how many small currencies are pegged or floored, at the moment

to put it in different terms, when gold was the global currency, the options were the same. it's the same restraints, the same "rules of the game". remember that the current global monetary pace is not set by us anyway. we can't steer the FED, the BoJ and the BoE away from their current chosen path. we have to roll with the punches. the ECB is just the medium we use to cope with the external shocks, and it's main feature is... size

Greece? was not ready, yet...willing. and note that Greece is currently willing to stick to the EUR, and so to adjust fiscal policy to a "harder" currency. it's Greece's options, and Greek fiscal policy. this ties in with our understanding of sovereignty

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 17:10 | 4535764 Escapedgoat
Escapedgoat's picture
"If I could see Putin leading by example and making a believable attempt to stamp corruption down to an acceptable level (by core-EU standards) then I would have more confidence"


You mean to tell us that the RECENT Unconstitutional Changes in Italy that are designed to keep Beppe Grillo out of power. The mostly universal Political Corruption of that lot as well as in Greece not to mention Corruption in Portugal look at Baroso himself and the looting of their finances with Submarines THAT NEVER WERE BUILT but swindled the money. Not going into detail here about financial Rigging ask Max Kaiser reports in LONDON, we need a whole encyclopedia to go through.


My question put to you.  Is Putin or anybody for that matter needing to COME DOWN on corruption or to STEP UP on corruption??? In relation to EUROPEAN CORRUPTION

Wed, 03/12/2014 - 12:39 | 4539239 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

When I say core EU, I really mean Teutonic. Your point is fair though, and even though I have a German bias, I do have to admit that Germany is run by corrupted politicians and oligarchs too, just that their way of expressing power is more, shall we say, civilized.

Would you be more satisfied if I were to say I'd have more faith in Putin's EEU if he tried harder to rape us peasants like the Germans do? "This way to the gas, ladies and gentlemen". Better? ;-)

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:13 | 4533985 Fíréan
Fíréan's picture

Putin's currently in the lead with Belarus and Armenia under the belt, soon to be part of Ukraine.


did i read this last part of the post wrong  ? Armenai to be part of Ukraine ?  Armenia is not only the other side of the Black Sea,y et way across land to the east of Turkey.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:21 | 4533998 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

I worded it badly. What I meant is part of Ukraine is soon to be under Putin's belt too.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 10:19 | 4534106 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

So with Crimea (then possibly Donetsk and Luhansk) separated from Ukraine, then a fresh election in Ukraine will have a much reduced pro-Russian vote and therefore have no trouble electing a pro-EU party.

Putin keeps saying he is for territorial integrity of Ukraine (obviously sans historically Russian Crimea), i. e. no partition. So, imho, if the fascist 'government' in Kiev crosses the line, Putin will go for the whole Ukraine, not just the eastern and southern parts. He is not stupid, he is well aware of what you wrote above.

In my opinion, the best solution to keep Ukraine in one piece and independent would be her finlandization and creation of Ukrainian Federation with minority and language rights strictly observed.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:35 | 4534211 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Completely agree. Ukraine is of more value to Putin intact, although the Crimea must surely be tempting. We'll find out soon if this is heading into a compromise that Putin doesn't prefer. Still, he can just wait it out unless the EU / IMF gets serious about supporting Ukraine.

Your proposal sounds perfectly reasonable (for some reason, the green arrow link doesn't work). It will be fascinating to see if he can pull it off as suggested (I'm sure he wants to).

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:30 | 4533892 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

SPY gapping down -.07 % on this news!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:33 | 4533900 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

"A considerable portion of Bismarck's enormous success is, indeed, due to the fact that his adversaries were such weak politicians.  Francis Joseph was a mediocrity without any political instinct, and Napoleon, who was much more intelligent, was always scheming and dreaming, but unable to make up his mind and see the consequences of his acts and omissions."
Bismarck and the German Empire.
Erich Eyck 

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:34 | 4533905 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture
Diplomacy Fails In Ukraine

Actually, criminality has been succeeding nicely:

The United States has systematically violated the national sovereignty of Ukraine to unconstitutionally overthrow an elected government and install a far-right regime that includes neo-Nazis whose thugs served as the shock troops for the February 22 putsch.

It was Mr. Pyatt (US ambassador to Ukraine), after all, who participated late last year in the leaked phone conversation with Victoria Nuland, the US assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, in which the two officials discussed the need to “midwife” the opposition movement in Ukraine into a new government. They agreed that the individual who has since been installed as prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, referred to as “Yats,” had the “economic experience” and “governing experience” to run the country as a stooge of the United States.

The entire regime-change operation was carried out illegally, with the US and European powers intervening in Ukraine with billions of dollars in funding for oppositional forces allied with fascist organizations such as the Svoboda party and the Right Sector. It is these rabid Ukrainian nationalists who have waged “an active campaign to stir division,” spewing anti-Jewish filth and threatening and beating up Russian-speaking Ukrainians and other minorities. In one of its first acts, the new parliament eliminated language rights for Russian speakers.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:30 | 4534013 cherokeepilot
cherokeepilot's picture

I'm sure this article is completely without bias since it was published on the " World Socialist Web Site". (sarcasm)   Infomative as it may be, It is still somewhat a propaganda piece.  All that said, I don't believe we belong involved in the mess in the Ukraine.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:39 | 4533918 the phantom
the phantom's picture

and taking into consideration the confirmation of the status of Kosovo by the United Nations International Court of Justice on July, 22, 2010, which says that unilateral declaration of independence by a part of the country doesn’t violate any international norms---

Ah yes, the Kosovo Pandora's box.  But, but... the U.S wanted Kosovo to be independent reagrdless of international law... so that makes it ok.  SMH

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:39 | 4533919 the phantom
the phantom's picture

and taking into consideration the confirmation of the status of Kosovo by the United Nations International Court of Justice on July, 22, 2010, which says that unilateral declaration of independence by a part of the country doesn’t violate any international norms---

Ah yes, the Kosovo Pandora's box.  But, but... the U.S wanted Kosovo to be independent reagrdless of international law... so that makes it ok.  SMH

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:42 | 4533926 highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

I feel like Snowden  except I have no place to go....    40 tons  x 32,000 oz per ton.. Do the math JPM gold vaults doesn't cut it.....         but what do I know.....  The Tin foil hat is covering both my left and right ears...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:44 | 4533932 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Game, set, match.


Fuck you Ketchup Boy John Kerry (crypto jew Kohn)!

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:00 | 4533958 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

John Kerry is SUCH a motherfucking douchebag.


I've watched this cunt over the years.

Saw him last night in the "Pandora's Promise" nuke doc - made him look stupid and foolish.

That's a hallmark of his entire career; a bonesman, and therefore covered.

His wife is one UGLY hag too; good thing the bitch fell into dough.....

Fucker..........Putin would eat him for breakfast....



Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:47 | 4533937 jubber
jubber's picture

...and US futrues all turn bright green

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:48 | 4533939 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Once again, people define boarders, not the other way around.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:04 | 4533967 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Wait - are we back to Admiralty law?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:21 | 4534000 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

No, landlord tenant law <boarders>.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 08:55 | 4533947 Yttrium Gold Ni...
Yttrium Gold Nitrogen's picture

AFAIK, Crimean peninsula became part of Russian Empire after it was taken away from Ottoman empire. It became part of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by decree, issued by Khruschev, in 1954.

In my opinion, Ukraine as a state has failed completely. It should all join Russia.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 12:38 | 4534620 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Muscovy was waging war against the Crimean Khans hundreds of years ago.  It was strategically important then, its strategically important now (because Russia is a vast land, with few warm water, year-round ports, its rivers and ocean access take on greater significance).

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:01 | 4533959 Crazed Weevil
Crazed Weevil's picture

"6,000 combat-ready infantry compared with more than 200,000 Russian troops"

Surely he means he could only find 6,000 poor neo-nazi slobs dumb enough to pick a fight with 200,000 heavily armed Russians...

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:54 | 4534062 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

Only 6,000 combat ready troops (or shall we say foreign mercs and neo-nazi stormtroopers) because the rest would rather switch sides than fight for the fascist thugs currently usurping power in Kiev.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 11:30 | 4534382 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Do the Blackwater stooges get a cut of the gold?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 09:01 | 4533960 Activatecard
Activatecard's picture

Quick, have the Brits send in the Light Brigade

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