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Where The Russian Troops Are - The Full "Pre-Takeover" Infographic

Tyler Durden's picture


As we reported yesterday, Crimea is last week's story. Now it is all about east Ukraine. In that vein, moments ago John Kerry's latest stand up comedy routine hit the tape which contained, besides the usual laugh lines, this particular pearl:


Is that so? We provide this map showing the latest distribution of Russian military forces on the Ukraine borders so that readers can make up their own mind.


And here is another map compiled by Dmitry Tymchuk, a former Ukrainian military officer, who has established an organization, the Center of Military and Political Research on Kiev, to effectively collect and gather data about military-related facts.

Kerry concluded:


We'll know just what those are by Sunday night. The only question: will Referendum Sunday be the new Lehman Sunday...

h/t @BSpringnote


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Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:51 | 4543185 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

But evidently, the neocons did.

Bet Putin and the over.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:52 | 4543195 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

It's only a flesh wound...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 11:57 | 4543230 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

80,000 soldiers
380 artillery pieces
270 tanks
180 armoured vehicles
140 military aircraft
90 helicopters
19 ships

With a cherry-nuke on top?

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:06 | 4543279 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Looks like the neocon cast of retards is planning some fake "Russian" attacks before Sunday's Crimean referendum. Your tax dollars at work:

A GoogleNSA  search of the term

"Jason P. Gresh"

(with the quotes) turns up a lot of very recent hits on sites which use the Cyrillic alphabet, so the Russians know what's going on.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:13 | 4543311 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Nice. Good work.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:21 | 4543365 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

Kerry is right, no matter what Tyler says. 80,000 soldiers is vastly insufficient to invade and control a country the size of Ukraine. How many soldiers did it take to invade Irak initially? and what happened next?

Thinking that the west would not supply large quantities of all kinds of weapons to the Ukrainians to make this country Russia's Irak is very naive...

I know most here have some idiotic admiration for Putin, but that shows ignorance more than anything...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:28 | 4543410 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Pedo-midget Putin hungrily eyes a whole new country of young boys to conquer.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:02 | 4543621 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

If Russia would want to invade Ukraine, they already had. At this point of time it doesn't make sense anymore.

No, I believe Russia is going to keep the Krim and leaves the rest of Ukraine - with their multiple problems - to the EU. "With kind regards!" from Putin. ;-)

Ukraine is going to be an expensive investment for the West. It is not just an investment into gasfields and -pipelines. Somebody has to rescue their finances. Good luck with that.

Now, why in the world would the US want to go to war with Russia? 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:23 | 4543723 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

The most important story surrounding unfolding events in the Ukraine is not the violent overthrow of the freely-elected Ukrainian government. It is not the American participation in that overthrow or the Russian reaction to it. No, the big story is much more ominous. The big story is that all major U.S. politicians, regardless of party, and all "news" media outlets, electronic and print, are deliberately lying to the American people about this event. How can this be?

Euripides is often wrongly credited with saying, "Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad!" Psychosis has been described as a mental state involving a "loss of contact with reality". That perfectly describes the Washington establishment's demonstrated state of mind with regard to events in the Ukraine. Both the "Democrat" (socialist) wing and the "Republican" (neo-Fascist) wing of the U.S. political apparatus and their respective propaganda arms are frantically hammering out the same fantastic and utterly false version of events in the Ukraine.

The effort to paint Russia as the aggressor and Putin as an incipient Hitler has reached a fever pitch. Unfortunately for the U.S. and its allies, the facts on the ground are simple, indisputable, and well known to all credible observers. The Ukraine rejected a proposed trade agreement with the European Union in favor of a competing (and superior) agreement with Russia. In retaliation, the United States organized, funded, and directed the overthrow of the freely-elected government of Viktor Yanukovich and stood up an unconstitutional and completely illegal government" in its place, killing dozens of people in the process. That Mr. Yanukovich is corrupt may well be true. Whether he is any more corrupt than the gang of professional thieves and liars that infests the halls of power in Washington is at least arguable.

In any case, Washington's Putsch employed a mix of anti-Russian Ukranian ultra-nationalists (the "Right Sector"), local neo-Nazis (Svoboda), CIA operatives, American Blackwater/Xe/Academi mercenaries, and NGO staffers from the National Endowment for Democracy (including the execrable John McCain's "International Republican Institute") as boots on the ground to get the job done. The bottom line: it is the government of the United States that is and has been nterfering in the internal affairs of the Ukraine and it is the government of the United States that bears direct responsibility for igniting the current "crisis".

The importance of what is happening goes beyond events in the Ukraine and should send a chill of apprehension down the spines of all who love liberty. Two aspects in particular should capture the attention of the observer:

1. The absolute unanimity on the "official" and totally false narrative that is being drummed incessantly into the public consciousness. Despite the "Left" vs, "Right" division that supposedly defines the American political landscape, news outlets from Fox News to CNN to MSNBC to the old line broadcast networks and print media organs from the Washington Times and the editorial pages of The Wall Street Journal to The Washington Post and The New York Times are frantically pushing the same false "Russian aggression" line in lock step.

2. The transparent and blatant falseness of the narrative. Why persist in this obvious lie when anyone who pays the slightest attention to current events knows
that the "official narrative" is false? The casual display of contemptuous arrogance is stunning.

The answer is simple. The West's Welfare/Warfare states are collapsing before our eyes. The establishment is losing its grip on power and filled with fear. A serious new diversion is required to maintain power. The prospect of World War looms, a war that will serve as justification for the totalitarian dictatorship which is but a pen stroke away. The structural groundwork has long since been laid. All that is required is a suitable ignition point.

We must be prepared.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:37 | 4543821 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

My guess is the Ruskies are preparing for any blowback from the Ukrainians north of the Crimea.  However, if the Russians head into the north, this could be some serious shit.  I'm sure the satellite images have a complete run-down on the Russian preparedness along the border.  Not looking too good.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:46 | 4543875 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

stormcloudsgathering put out an excellent informative video on the ukraine situation, anyone interested may want to watch it:

Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:38 | 4544194 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture


I agree to your analysis, but Russia and China have nukes and going to war with them is not an option. There are lots of other countries which can and will be messed with. It kind of reminds me of the subprime-crisis just on a greater scale - today the EM fail first... chaos ahead, but hopefully not a full blown out war with a nuclear power.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:30 | 4546483 Unknown User
Unknown User's picture

Since the Ukraine's IMF debt-slavery deal has failed, and the survival of the current government there looks dismal, the US decided to go for the twofer.  Outright destroy as much of Ukraine and Russia as possible by turning Ukraine against Russia.  One way or another, it’s more loans and interest payments for the worldwide banking cartel.  The real goal of US and EU is to prevent their monetary collapse by destroying whole countries and then forcing them to borrow and pay interest to rebuild.  In other words, the cartel exports its monetary collapse.  This is why Afghanistan, IRAQ, Libya, Syria, Egypt, and now Venezuela, Ukraine and Russia.  And the list will continue to grow.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 07:08 | 4546971 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Looks like the NSB and the CIA have entered the ZH Thunderdome death match.


Place your bets!

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:57 | 4544294 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

A link with story about Ukraine Oil and Natural Gas rserves,

mostly in Crimea offshore Black Sea area,

Western drilling investment in Ukraine from Exxon and Rothschild, and other Ukrainian oligarchs,

but drilling not yet implemented.

Blood for Oil again.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:30 | 4544485 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:25 | 4545028 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I love the smell of napalm in the air in the morning!

Oh and might I add, Quantico is firing the hell out of their 155mm Howitzers right now!!!!

I don't see a fight unless they invade Ukraine proper, Crimea was Russian until 1954 anyway.  They may decide to go into the east Ukraine, then it will get interesting, so to speak!?

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:58 | 4545267 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

I don't see a fight unless they invade Ukraine proper, Crimea was Russian until 1954 anyway.

Agree with this totally. Russia got Crimea back, doneski gorgeous.  If they press this further into the Ukraine not sure what purpose that will serve other than to make the Russians look bad, potentially really bad. As I understand they have controlled the port at Sevastopol since the time of Catherine the Great. Understandable they would want to keep a tight grip on their warm water port there. If this thing gets escalated into full blown conflict in Ukraine then Big Fat Harry has officially showed up on the scene.  In time the Ukaine can decide what allegiance is to their benefit. The economy in the Crimea after the smoke clears will be the tell on which way they go.

Disclosure: Big supporter of the right of self determination, not so much support for control via monetary shenanigans by global elites. Support Scotland in their bid for self determination as well.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:56 | 4546161 National Blessing
National Blessing's picture

I think Russia should give the Crimean Peninsula to me.  I'd make a great fearless leader.  Bitches.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:11 | 4544984 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Good pick.

Highlights the important parts of what's going on and who the players are for those who rarely venture beyond the MSM and the 'canned heat'.

This goes on my cc. list to people I spam that I have hopes for them to look behind the curtain.

Funny how lately I don't get anyone castigating me for sending them 'fringey conspiracy theories' anymore. Most of them do their own digging now and send me stuff too.

I think the Syria debacle started waking a few people up to how far they'll go.

Bit by bit.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:37 | 4543823 Dick Gazinia
Dick Gazinia's picture

No doubt.  The proof of what you say can be seen in John McCain heading to the Ukrain today on a bi-partisan fact-finding tour.  Fuck John McCain.  He is Uncle Fester's evil twin.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:52 | 4543890 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Didn't both Senators Lugar (R) and Obama (D) spearhead passage of removal conventional weapons from Ukraine in 2005 ?   Why all the confusion ?   Defenseless territory.  Checkout how they all voted in 2005 and 1993 ?

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:53 | 4546147 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

They also took all the public firearms, for their safety I'm sure

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 07:20 | 4546978 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





Can we please do something about John McCain?

Perhaps force him to fly the plane over there himself....he'll never make it.


P.S.....send Lindsey Graham with with him....transmit that to Boehner bitch.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:56 | 4543924 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I think what Kerry meant to say is that NATO has no troops ready to counter any advancement by the Russians into Ukraine.

By trying to point out the holes in your advesaries armor Kerry fails to point out the holes in NATO's armor.

It took approximately six months or more to build up troops and supplies for each Gulf and Iraq war. Can't wait to see what divisions Germany and France much less Poland come up with to counter the Russians.

Reality is a bitch, but logistics are even bitchier. The Russians have been planning for this for quite a few years. Especially ever since NATO has been sticking its nose into Ukrainian business since the Orange Revolution.

I'm no Putin/Russian fan, but at the same time I'm not heading over to fight and die for Ukrainian freedom when we have our own Dictator/Police state oppressing us at home. Let's see if the Europeans pick up any of the slack when it comes to doing any heavy lifting (fighting), I sincerely doubt it. When we see the German, French, and Polish armored divisions lining up outside the frontiers of Ukraine, then you'll know its on. And, I don't expect or want any other Americans fighting and dying for something they can no longer attain at home.

The US government has been stealing the liberties and Constitutional Rights of US citizens for the past couple of decades and now were supposed to go die for some other people's freedom we no longer enjoy.

Fuck Off D.C.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:20 | 4544724 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Ukrainians can beef up their forces easily.


Greece's Riot Dog is looking for some work.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:16 | 4546436 Balanced Integer
Balanced Integer's picture

"Ukrainians can beef up their forces easily."

Not exactly. While they can call up their reserves, their military equipment is antiquated and poorly maintained. Not to mention the fact that even their active duty have not exactly been on a grueling training regimen.

No, Ukraine is in no way a match for Russia's military. T-64s en mass will never match up well with a few brigades of T-90 MBTs, no matter how many of them you have..

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:18 | 4545024 Luckhasit
Luckhasit's picture

Beautiful and eloquent.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:21 | 4545045 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Ummm, we have military all around that area...Germany would be the spearhead...then ME forces, and so on.  Don't think we are naked.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:25 | 4546060 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Reality is a bitch, but logistics are even bitchier.


Armchair generals think strategy; real generals think logistics.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:21 | 4546460 Balanced Integer
Balanced Integer's picture


The best NATO could do at this point is embed a few special forces into the Ukrainian military to act as a force multiplier: lasing targets for the Ukrainian air force, providing intel, maybe operating a few attack helicopters to blunt the Russian columns as the encroach into Ukrainian territory.

It could be effective in making any Russian push into Ukraine a costly endeavor. Maybe even costly enough to convince the Russian people that the cost-benefit analysis of trying to occupy eastern Ukraine is too far into the red for them to proceed. But if they really want eastern Ukraine, they'll be able to take it.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:13 | 4544040 TSTM
TSTM's picture

There is nothing more dangerous to liberty in America than bi-partisanship. The disagreements of the the Democrats and Republicans are of no consequence in the struggle for liberty. It is there complete agreement that liberty must be crushed that makes both parties the enemy.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:55 | 4544285 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

two much credit on 2 party. The masters behind are the same people. It is just like a house with two doors.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 18:59 | 4545528 Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

I see poorly prepared two ppt slides with arrows and some sucked up numbers by crazy idiots ( are they even ukis?) rooted for starting ww3.

With this kind of argument I would not buy even new fridge for my pharmacy.

Sorry you fuckers. Truth is not on your side.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:42 | 4543846 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

The Annexation of Crimea may be yesterday's news, but it is one for the history books.

Following the 2014 Olympics, a dicate from the United States of America's State Department was made from one Victoria Nuland - Assistant Secretary of State - to back, if not sponser, a coup on the elected government in Ukraine.  The coup was successful in running out the elected officials, but retaliation came from Russia with very little effort to annex the Crimea.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:51 | 4543878 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Putin' on the Ritz.


Putin put.  Shortin' DOW, Russell, S&Pee stawks.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:18 | 4544071 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

"Putin on the Ritz"  Sparrow Hill Mockba 2012

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:51 | 4543913 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

“You can fool all the people some of the time, you can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.”  ~Lincoln

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:53 | 4543920 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

And contributing to the false narrative are Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:22 | 4546049 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



The wet dog and wet blanket





Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:57 | 4543943 Dexter Morgan
Dexter Morgan's picture

"execrable" --I like.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:17 | 4544063 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Excellent post, Chupa, thank you.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:17 | 4544067 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture


Excellent post, thanks for that. To this:

"In any case, Washington's Putsch employed a mix of anti-Russian Ukranian ultra-nationalists (the "Right Sector"), local neo-Nazis (Svoboda), CIA operatives, American Blackwater/Xe/Academi mercenaries, and NGO staffers from the National Endowment for Democracy (including the execrable John McCain's "International Republican Institute") as boots on the ground to get the job done."

...I would add that the fact that the Mossad was fighting front and center in the square protests is also a well known fact. So we have a full spectrum Washington DC assault.


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:29 | 4544138 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture


succint outline, thank you

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:38 | 4544327 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

You're all welcome. Just a quick outline/timeline of the developments which have transpired thus far. Criminal False Narraives aside.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:26 | 4545084 PT
PT's picture

Relax, its all good.  Globalism and free trade means there will be no more wars.  MSM told me this many, many times so it must be true.





On an unrelated note, it took my one year old computer 40 minutes to turn on today.  What could it possibly be doing for FORTY FUCKING MINUTES that is so important that it needs complete attention and can't do anything else?  Fucking?    Sending copies of my hard drive to the NSA?  Twice?

Windows8 is the biggest heap of shit ever.  I don't think I'll ever buy a new computer again.  Just try and find an old computer with an old OS THAT WORKS.  Where's all that consumer choice that keeps competitors honest???

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:33 | 4545132 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

All of our computers here at Ameru use Windows XP.  They all work great.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:27 | 4546474 Balanced Integer
Balanced Integer's picture

XP is awesome. Too bad that MS will stop supporting it next month.

For WIn7 and later, I use a hybrid SSD with 8 Gb of solid-state drive. It loads Win7 Ultimate from the the SSD portion of the drive, so it boots up in under 7 seconds. Really loving it, and far less expensive than a fully solid state HDD.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 05:19 | 4546883 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

re: "XP is awesome. Too bad that MS will stop supporting it next month."

I'm thinking the end of "support" could be a good thing. Yup, I'm still using XP too.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 20:59 | 4545955 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

More choice than you can believe... absolutely free through global human voluntaryist cooperation

To learn it, to know it, is to love, love love it :-)

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 02:33 | 4546786 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Go on BestBuy online...sort the laptops by HP, then sort by Windows 7. Yes, you can still get em. Business line machines. No IT manager worth a fuck is gonna roll out 8 to his company.
Take note of the business "Folio" line. SSD/SataHDD, max it out to 16GB and it comes with Win 7 with very little bloatware.
I had bought a travesty of a machine from HP consumer line, the HP Envy Sleek Book 4 w/ Win8. What a complete fucking hunk of shit. I stripped down the Win 8 to bare minimum, installed VMware Workstation and do my work on a Win7 VM. Hate that machine and OS with a burning passion.
The one from the Folio line is what I bought my wife after my disaster with the shitstain Envy. She's a doctor, not time to fuck around with some gay assed Win 8. I have to say, the Folio is the finest laptop I've ever seen in my 20 yrs in IT. 16GB of ram coupled with the SSD/sataHDD and Win 7...that thing runs like its on rails. Damn fine display, too. Titties. Cherry all the way. It will blow your hair back and it's damn sexy too. Matte brushed aluminum...not greasy boogery paw prints from handling it and it's light, yet sturdy.
Set you back 1200...but worth every penny.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 05:17 | 4546881 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

re: "not greasy boogery paw prints from handling it"

After picking nose, Kleenex. Thanks for the laptop tips tho... ;p

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:39 | 4544464 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

" The big story is that all major U.S. politicians, regardless of party, and all "news" media outlets, electronic and print, are deliberately lying to the American people about this event."

In my short life, the experience told me that the only things that united all are: money or fear (girls are only for the paleo-conservatives like me).

Perhaps is not despiciendus to look at these guys workng place and it is relatively easy, because all of them work in the same place, Congress, US Congress.

So, what are they doing at both Houses this time? what laws and new legislative projects they are preparing? Arent it now time for the Budget? are they preparing new tax laws? Ah, dont forget the lobbies errands boys and girls, they must have some scoops.

Meanwhile, what about the second glue "fear", Chupacabra has masterly observe:The establishment is losing its grip on power and filled with fear. A serious new diversion is required to maintain power." And what make them feel they are losing its grip of power? even Ron Paul and those tea drinkers, whom, never have much power or influences out of theirs tea plantations? Someone told them God irae for all those senseless killings around the World and the opression of the imaculate 99 sheeps?


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:22 | 4545022 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

Kudos to you Chupa.

"The effort to paint Russia as the aggressor and Putin as an incipient Hitler has reached a fever pitch." 

Mainstream Media Twisting Truths About Russia:

What the German Exporters are saying:

"Anton Börner, president of the German Association of Exporters (BGA), which represents 120,000 companies, the lifeblood of the economy, warned at a press conference in Berlin that further escalation of the crisis in the Ukraine could hit exporters very hard. He said that the BGA expected exports to rise 3% to €1.13 trillion and imports 2% to €914 billion for a trade surplus of €215.6 billion – the highest in history. But “if the crisis in the Crimea escalates further,” these wondrous forecasts of endlessly growing exports and surpluses “could turn very quickly into a mal-calculation.”

And here is Ron Paul's take on it all:

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:46 | 4545217 SofaPapa
SofaPapa's picture

"Psychosis has been described as a mental state involving a "loss of contact with reality". That perfectly describes the Washington establishment's demonstrated state of mind with regard to events in the Ukraine."

The word that has been running through my mind today is delusion, in its technical sense.  I have had deluded thoughts myself.  I understand them.  I believed them when I had them.  I now recognize them for what they were.  But for the elites of the west to have deluded thinking on a scale this important?  God help us.  They better have a plan to back down from this, because further escalation is not in the best interests of any of us.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:14 | 4546013 KennyW
KennyW's picture

The Kabbalist lead Jewish lobby and their neocon allies really want Russia to give up Assad in Syria. They're using Ukraine as a bargaining chip. My $0.02.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 22:56 | 4546371 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

interesting take on it !

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:31 | 4546082 dtwn
dtwn's picture

Nice analysis, thanks.  It is important to point out that both sides of the isle here are frothing at the mouth to intervene.  It's only the libertarian leaning folks who are saying stay the fuck out of it.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 02:20 | 4546778 OldPhart
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 21:13 | 4546008 Oxygen
Oxygen's picture

Because we have an économic collapse and war is the only solution about this problem. Some people died, others works..

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:51 | 4544595 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Fuk u shill Sam.

Good moniker for a neocon war pimp.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:18 | 4544719 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Fuk u sam it would appear you are extremely fixated on this sick pedo shit. Seek help if it's not too late, now get back to all the delete buttons and be careful not to unplug your parents deep freezer in the basement while you're at it!

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:21 | 4544727 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Mongo not know. Mongo just pawn in game of life.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:37 | 4544816 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Just don't call me "Tardo"!

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:31 | 4543434 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

I have to upvote you for your inadvertant recognition that the west's goal is not to help Ukranians, it's to f*ck up Russia.   As the link above shows, Russia knows it.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:48 | 4543547 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

It was not inadvertant... it's just a game of power. As I said somewhere else, paraphrasing De Gaulle, countries don't have friends, they have interests. Ukraine, which is not historically a country, has the unfortunate geographical location of being stuck between the West and Russia's sphere of influence. There goes the problem. 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:53 | 4543579 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

No need to shoot that much when the majority of Eastern Ukraine citizens coming running to your side. You really think that they like and/or trust the past or current gov't out of Kiev? 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:38 | 4543830 john39
john39's picture

no shit. how long until other parts of eastern Ukraine attempt to break away and join Crimea and/or Russia?  i suspect, not long.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:31 | 4543438 666
666's picture

It could be more than enough since the eastern part of Ukraine is pro Russian.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:35 | 4543458 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Yeah, what a concept, huh!?

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:53 | 4543910 redpill
redpill's picture


Plus, East Ukraine is where most of the industry is, and they already occupy Crimea, which is stragetically centralized in the Black Sea for shipping and military.  Putin may be satisfied in just occupying the eastern half under the guise of "protecting" the Russians and Russian sympathizers that live there.  All it would take would be for some local "referendums" to be passed that said these regions wanted to join Russia.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 03:01 | 4546803 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

I can't wait for the first waves of Ukraine mil defectors. That is when worm turns for real. Arm up some eastern local civ pro Russ and you've got yourself a juggernaut.
Kiev will be surrounded, airports and boarders shut and the snakes, spies and agitators will be very publicly dealt with. Putin and Russians in general tend to favor a bit of dramatic flair in their wet work.

Russia DID NOT fuck around when it came to dealing with US meddling and hi jinx in Georgia/South Ossetia. They sent the goon squad vets from the Chechnya smack downs. They sent a message, Lima Charlie. Loot, rob, rape and pillage...then sow the earth with salt. Old school.
That's how Ivan em or hate have to admire the marbles. That's how you do the thing. Not this hearts and minds and nation building horse shit. If war it must be, bring the pain. It's an attention getter.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:34 | 4543455 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That would depend on the size and quality of the Ukrainian armed forces.  Iraq had a big army, it took a LOT of us to go in there, yet after the initial "victory", we are still mired there.  Does Ukraine have a bunch of tough guys willing to fight for their country?  Hmm..., I have no idea.

Quite agree re the weird man-love for Putin here.  He must have blamed something on Zionists.

Putin was a Colonel (IIRC) in the KGB and has always been a brutal thug:

I read the book, Putin fans should too.  Masha Gessen was a dissident Russian journalist.


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:42 | 4543511 john39
john39's picture

>>masha gessen

and we all know that zionist journalists only speak the truth, right?

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:54 | 4543566 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

From that wiki link:

In December 2013 she moved to New York to avoid legislation in Russia that bans "homosexual propaganda". [10] [11]

Ah, so Putin is popular because he dislikes Zionists AND homosexuals?  Ah, OK, I see now see why "the love" for Putin is so popular here.........

She was punished for opening her yap there in Russia.  Try opening YOUR yap in Russia on ANYTHING that Putin does not like, and see what happens to you...


Perhaps you are too young (or were not paying attention if not) to remember what the KGB was like.  Our .intels were a bunch of pikers next to theirs.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:59 | 4543598 john39
john39's picture

yes, good thing nothing like that happens in good old USSA, right?   and moreover, does banning homosexual propaganda equate to making homosexuality illegal?  i don't think so. 

And for those living in the USSA, I suspect that many would prefer to see a lot less homosexual propaganda (while leaving people free to do whatever they want in their own privacy).    it should be obvious to anyone paying attention that there is an overt agenda to use propaganda to convince kids that homosexuality is "natural" and normal, when real evidence and moral tradition suggest otherwise.   But in the end, perhaps its the simple fact that more conserative people don't appreciate the fact that they and their children have to be subjected constantly to in your face homosexual media in music and TV, when homosexuals make up a tiny minority.   I for one appluad Russia for attempting to put that garbage to an end.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:00 | 4543607 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I quite agree re the grotesque level of homosexual propaganda here in the USA.  It is one of many poisons that will speed our demise.

I just don´t like thugs, period.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:37 | 4543816 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Putin is not a thug, you just have him stereotyped that way because thats the only way that your western media has been portraying him to you all these years so you have that false mental image of him whithout realizing it... Governments are good at forcing their sheeples to think a certain way through mass media propaganda. 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:09 | 4544018 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture


Find the last where Putin met. spoke and answered question for over an hour and half.

Exactly reasonable leadership.

No teleprompter....

No 3 and half minute then turn over to Carney...

Find it on Paul Craig Roberts site and YouTube...


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:04 | 4544334 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

English transcript of March 4th meeting between Putin and the press:

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:05 | 4544957 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Didn't work during the 80s he says as he cheers on Sly in Rocky IV.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:33 | 4545136 Keloid
Keloid's picture

You are corrrect. Thug is a strong word.  Putin is more like an evil midgit.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:01 | 4543613 john39
john39's picture

one other thing worth pointing out... one of the reasons that Putin is apparently resisting zionism, is that the USSR was a zionist creation, run largely by zionists...  and tens of millions of innocent people were murdered in their reign of terror.   Putin is rebuilding, and I don't think he, or other Russians, have forgotten what happened.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:18 | 4543699 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

if the USSR was "run by Zionists"... then why did so many Russian Jews had to wait until it broke down in order to emigrate to Israel? have a look, the numbers are impressive: 1990s_Post-Soviet_aliyah

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:30 | 4543771 john39
john39's picture

you may find this link of interest:

as to why Soviet Russia would not allow its jewish citizens to leave?  probably several reasons for that...  assuming that oligarchs of all stripes are concerned primarily with themselves... once in control of Russia, you really can't have your pillar of support leaving en masse to another country can you?  not without undermining your control in several respects.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:59 | 4543954 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

cos all Jews aren't Zionists???

think before post...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:53 | 4544275 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

You have no idea what you're talking about. The communist jews were actually vehemently opposed to zionism. Research the topic. Communists regarded the zionists as thier enemy. Israel never was able to secure weapons from the russians ever. The arabs did, in abundance. Look at all the 6 day war booty. Russian made artillery, migs etc. Communists believe in the international working class. Zionists in a jewish national home. Big difference.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:35 | 4544510 john39
john39's picture

appearances are deceiving...  for example, does red team hate blue team here in the U.S.?  and yet no matter how many times they exchange power in DC nothing substantive really changes.  why? because the hidden hand controls the real moves by both.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:32 | 4544784 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The Zionists supported and financed the Bolsheviks.  Then when Stalin was running things, they were obviously no longer the 'kingmakers' they once were.  Yeltsin, Gorbachev, the privatization, were again done under Zionist influence, IMO.  See the Khodorkovsky-Yukos transaction for a case study.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 18:27 | 4545380 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Empty statements. Who were these zios financing the bolsheviks? The jnf? Jewish agency? Rothschild? You gotta be kidding me.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 01:43 | 4546741 Ward no. 6
Fri, 03/14/2014 - 08:22 | 4547122 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Those weren't zios. Learn to differentiate between assimilationist jewish elites and zios. Trotsky was a zionist too, right?

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 19:23 | 4545629 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Your ''hidden hand'' can't and hasn't manipulated politics everywhere and all times. In fact from a financial standpoint zionism is , at leastwas financial suicide. No big powers wanted anything to do with it ever. Britain as soon as it mildly acknowledged it tried to eliminate it. Affluent jews shunned it as it damaged their attempts at assimilation. Edmund d rothschild and montefiore were rare exceptions to the rule.Walter mathaus an stephen wise were more representative of the jewish elite. The former declared in the 1920s that he was a ''german of the mosaic persuasion'' (a sad joke if there ever was one) while the latter was against fdr's bombing of the tracks leading to auschwitz lest such an action turn ww2 into a ''jewish war''. You get the drift.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 03:10 | 4546813 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture


Fri, 03/14/2014 - 03:10 | 4546814 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture


Fri, 03/14/2014 - 03:10 | 4546815 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:18 | 4543691 Golden Rule
Golden Rule's picture

Promotion for homosexuality is core to the progressive zio movement.  Destroy your host from within via abandonment of traditional beliefs and values. 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:57 | 4543939 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture


Marxist rules for revolution...DoChen now qualifies as "useful idiot"

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:12 | 4544035 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

I think we have a winner. Thats so true, use the opposite card to destroy from within. Never has a small minority been given so much air time when in truth they are a very small, vacant minority who without the air play would not be visable

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:32 | 4544789 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Its Hegel meets Caesar.

Divide and Conquer.  Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 03:11 | 4546817 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Preach it!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 01:07 | 4546683 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

The gays are going to destroy western civilization?  Bejeezus f christ, folks.  You're worried about your "traditional values"?

Those were never your values.  Never.  They were given to you.  What- is christianity your value?  A crusty, 2000 year old

story holds your value?  Or traditional marriage- is that your value?  Why do you give a fuck if others want to enter the

same prison you've subjected yourself too.  There's enough misery to go around.

What are these values?  Sending kids off to daycare so both parents can work long hours.  Packing grandma

off to the nursing home when she becomes unmanagable?  What does this society value exactly?

Either looking back or projecting forward, but unable to be here. right. now. 

Pop culture has been taken over by the "gay agenda"  because straight people in large have hemmed themselves in intellectually,

culturally, emotionally and spiritually.  They're stuck.  Predictable.  and boring. 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:14 | 4544048 albanian
albanian's picture

You must be a Homo.Do Chen ,and I like't your post's

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:43 | 4544215 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

No, I am strictly hetero, read my above post re excessive homosexual propaganda now in the USA:

I just don´t like thugs.  I have not liked them since, well, forever.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 18:00 | 4545274 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

"I just don´t like thugs.  I have not liked them since, well, forever."

Must have been what a million innocent Iraqis and Afganis said, too.

Sorry, Chen.

Murder and profits for the evil people killing empire have no colors.

You walk by the Laws and Rites of a Higher Power(Love), or fall. The evil satanic plan to demoralize the world society by being anti-Higher Power teachings IS the long unwinding plan. The attack from within and from without is what it is. Anyone who has read the recently departed Jack McLambs Vampire Killer would know all this.

Not wanting to be judgmental of peoples sexual lifestyle but the truth is, you can only serve one master. The Spiritual one or the real one, or the material one or the temporary one. They both have their karmic repercussions. There is NO escape from this factual truth.

Choose well, for EVERY ONE is going to need that Higher Power's help real soon.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:03 | 4544936 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

Yes Putin is a thug.  Just as are all the others in the West.  Boil off the bull shit and one only needs to know that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  It really is that simple.  East or West 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:47 | 4543535 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

i think you are mistaking anit-obamanism for pro-putinism

but i think moastly, none of us want to see the US involved insomething that is clearly not our business, and we cn see this is clearly in the russian sphere of influence

and we would all ike to see putin dicksmack a buncha globalista assholes

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:57 | 4543599 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is right, Ukraine is none of our business.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:08 | 4543647 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Ukraine borders to your allies. just saying...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:18 | 4543694 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

In reality, the US has no allies.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:41 | 4543844 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

well...the argument here is "high gold prices and blowed up banks good, Russian Invasion will accomplish...invasion good." Leaving aside the logic though you would think "stupid US response is good" (can't tell it that means helping Ukraine or looking stupid or by saying we will help but can't) ...and since it is is given we have chosen sides (again Putin and "Putin's Russia) one must also assume that "this is war between the US and Russia should Russia invade." That should be good for I fail to see why all the negativity. Of course this won't cause a "Lehman" event since an actual war between the US and the heart of Europe no less...will have to be financed.

It won't be financed by Russia as they have no money.
Ukraine might be able too...if they weren't being invaded of course.

Actually...the only financial beneficiary of an outright military aggression by Russia against "their poor little brother" would be the USA. Kinda makes me wonder why we're not on Russia's side here.

Who knows..."maybe secretly we are....

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:19 | 4543701 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And if Russia comes for the Baltics or Poland, that is a different story.   Yes, they are our allies.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:22 | 4543720 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Cut the crap DoChen, Russia has no fuckin' interest in being world police, that's USSA's job. As for Poland/Baltics, they fully deserve the company they're currently in.

And reduce your propaganda intake, it blurrs your vision...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:30 | 4543769 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

World police is a job that the USA should not want.  And clearly does not deserve.

When have I said that we should be the world´s cop?  Too expensive and invites world hatred.


And please explain your notion that the Baltics and Poland deserve the company they´re with, I do not follow your logic.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:44 | 4543861 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

To quote you : "And if Russia comes for the Baltics or Poland, that is a different story. Yes, they are our allies." 

Can you please explain with a straight face how are they your allies and for how long they've had that status? Your answer will (if you're insightful, hopefully) also provide you an answer to your own last question.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:55 | 4544259 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

We have treaties signed with them, that makes us, at least on paper, our allies.  Ukraine is NOT in NATO, nor would I have supported their entry, say, a year ago.  I did not like the idea of accepting Georgia as a NATO member.

Just because we have some treaties does not (rather, should not) make us World Cop.  Our Founding Fathers in general were right about foreign entanglements.  I don´t want us to be a World Cop.


But, a treaty is supposed to be a solemn & formal promise.  And for the most part they were, until things changed.

Clip from above:

A treaty is an official, express written agreement that states use to legally bind themselves.[2] A treaty is the official document which expresses that agreement in words; and it is also the objective outcome of a ceremonial occasion which acknowledges the parties and their defined relationships.



You still have not shown when I wrote that the USA should be the World Cop or similar.

Nor did you explain why Poland and the Baltics deserved to be where they are.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:19 | 4544429 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

So when you say We it represents USA, right? Thus you acknowledge that Poland and the Baltics are your allies (which apparently you support as concluded by your previous post I quoted) and that USA should send its children across half the planet in order to protect your allies. Am I right?

If that's not a confirmation of your support to being a GloboCop, then I dunno how I shall explain it to you.

Moreover that until 25-odd years ago those same Poland/Baltic states were a part of The Warsaw Pact (hint: find Warsaw on a map and see which country it's in). 

Jumping on the ZATO bandwagon and doing onto others what has been done to them. by sending troops to help The Empire enslave other peoples that they don't have a goddamn clue about, is what I meant with my comment that they fully deserve the company they're in.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:47 | 4545219 Keloid
Keloid's picture

We do not need to send our children. Just bullets and body bags. Lots and lots of bullets.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 12:27 | 4548390 layman_please
layman_please's picture

let me be clear, poland and baltics wouldn't want anything more than to be completely independent countries without any foreign entanglements but if WW2 proved anything, it is that they never can be, at least not until russia is our neighbour. if you would have ever managed to escape soviet union, believe me, you would join anybody and anyone to never let it happen again.

i'm from baltics and i have nothing than biggest disrespect for my government who has been supporting the empire building in afghanistan and in iraq by sending more soldiers per capita than anybody else but unfortunately our democracies are as effective as our shining example in this regard, ussa.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:37 | 4544678 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

People get bogged down in all sorts of b.s. 'treaty' talk, etc

The central question is whether the insane 'bring on the  New World Order' crowd has chosen this time to potentially start thermonuclear WW3 and the destruction of all life on the planet. ( They think they'll survive it in their bunkers. They even built a seed bank in the arctic. -Too bad for the rest of us.)  Of course, maybe we'll get 'lucky' and theyll only bring on The Greatest Depression worldwide. In that case, people wouldn't die so quickly & all at once.

Not that any of us have immediate control in these matters - but who's silly enough to talk about 'treaties' and other pieces of paper - when these criminals violate that paper called the US Constitution all the time. They would have violated their oath to defend the American people (at least if you think getting every man, woman, & child killed isn't a good way to 'defend' them).

I'm of the opinion that this will work itself out. That somehow there will be some measure of sanity that prevaills and that the unthinkable doesn't happen. That the neocons will be seen as impotent fools . . . again.   Unfortunately, that isn't a 100% certainty. My opinion is only based on the fact that we are still here after having nuke weapons for 70 years - but that doesn't guarantee anything This time.  Its nothing more than hope. - - -Those in charge in the US are absolutely insane. They are pushing the Russians into a strategic position that they cannot tolerate, any more than the Americans could tolerate strategic ballistic missiles in Cuba back in the 60s. - - - Ever been around someone who is tying to start a fight with you (physical or verbal) ?  They use any excuse as a 'justification', but really they just want to get into it.

It might be a very good idea to enjoy this weekend with those you care about.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 17:22 | 4545054 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


They don't want nuclear war.

But some nice long protracted proxy wars would be great for business and for spreading some central bank joy and freedom would be nice.

Those American boots-on-the-ground wars are getting too hard to sell.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 18:01 | 4545280 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The neo-cons have written white papers through the years on 'winning' a nuclear war, 'limited' nuclear war, and first strike.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:45 | 4543868 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

meh. We just want to take all of Russia...steal all the gold...enslave all te inhabitants. It's really not complicated. This was all planned at the turn of the Century...why no only 9/11 happened but all subsequent events as well.

"Finally...America's evil plan is revealed!!!!"

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:15 | 4544051 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Oh, you're just a tool, the means to someone else's end...

Just so you don't misinterpret me, I'm talking about America. As for yourself, you're the tool's used toilet paper.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:06 | 4544667 joe6px
joe6px's picture

Ad hominem much?  You aren't adding to the conversation troll.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:14 | 4544034 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Ukraine borders to your allies. just saying...

Then we must have picked some wrong allies. just saying...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:40 | 4544195 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:49 | 4543895 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Masha Gessen is an ugly no tits Russian hating sick tribal crap writer.

That is the worst book even written on the subject. which is significant considering the amount of Putin demonizing shit in print...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:27 | 4544125 moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

@ dochen-in the ukraine the russians wont run into a group of people 'mired' in a religion that they will die for and kill innocent civilians for with bombs taped to themselves or in their backpacks. they wont hear shouts of 'allahu akbar' b4 some church or market is blown up. so thats a big advantage to being able to control the country. yes, a big difference is very few if any islamic extremists. the other is that the populace may actually not mind russian involvement. either way, your point about anti-zionist feeling at zh being present at an oddly elevated level seems to have merit...

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 19:09 | 4545564 August
August's picture

>>>Does Ukraine have a bunch of tough guys willing to fight for their country?  Hmm..., I have no idea.

Western Ukrainians (well a significant proportion of them, anyway) are perfectly willing to fight Russia... in an underground/guerilla mode if necessary, and for years.  The Galicia-Ruthenia region was a component of Poland, or the Austro-Hungarian empire, for centuries, and was NEVER ruled by Russia until the aftermath of WWII.  The west Ukrainians maintained armed resistance against Soviet Russia (funded by the CIA, of course) into the mid-1950s.

I suspect that Putin' preference is to remain in "go slow" mode, in order to pick up both Crimea and eastern Ukraine in a manner that is (relatively) peaceful and, ultimately, recognized internationally.  Even if successfully provoked by the USA into major military operations, I don't see any benefit to Russia in occupying west Ukraine; the only question is where to draw the new border.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:44 | 4543520 joak
joak's picture

Putin is doing everything he can to maintain world peace, facts are there to prove it. It's not Russia who is invading countries for no reason, or trying to overthrow govts all around the world. So far, he has been very patient, if RUssia would have done what the US did in Mexico, the GI's would be all over the place for a long time. If this is "idiotic admiration" according to you, I'm blessed to be an idiot. 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:57 | 4543600 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

Hear what Paul Craig Roberts said about Ukraine/Putin yesterday:

U.S. Definitely Wants War in Ukraine-Paul Craig Roberts

Summary and 50 minutes interview - YouTube.



Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:47 | 4543543 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Probably not the whole of Ukraine, but I believe the goal is the eastern Russian provinces only.  That is more than sufficient firepower for that goal.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:41 | 4544212 TheMuppet
TheMuppet's picture

It is characteristic of the NATO-loving warmongers that they have to push this psychotic fantasy of a massive Russian invasion of E. Ukraine.  "That's what warmongering is for.."  Nobody asks why the hell would Russia want to do that?  Heavy industry, Donbass and all that.  Really?  Why not then take it in 1991, the best opportunity?  The opposite is true:  E Ukraine, precisely by being across the border outside of Russia, can fuction as a big cheap labor industrial maquiladora zone for Russian investment.  Guess where the 2 largest international migratory zones are located?  US-Mexico and....wait for it...Russia-Ukraine.

And if the new regime in Kiev is tempted to close that border economically, that's when the Russian-backed guerrilla war begins. 

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:14 | 4546431 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

The Russian army was in no shape to do anything in 1991. In fact, the largest and best equiped Soviet Forces were stationed in the Ukraine and were refusing to following orders from Moscow - primarily because they were not being paid or fed. When the Russian general staff ordered them to disband and turnover their weapons, they refused, and challenged Russia to come and take them, but would, however, turn over their arsenal if Russia bought them.

When Ukraine became independent, they became the 3rd largest nuclear power on earth. No way Russia would try anything then.

I always thought they were crazy to give up the their nuclear arsenal - not that I would want them to have nuclear weapons, but if I were in their shoes...




Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:06 | 4543638 jaxville
jaxville's picture

It is unlikely that Russian forces will need to drive on Kiev. They only have to take the eastern area which has a large Russian (friendly) population. Hope that doesn't become necessary but should the US backed arseholes make it so, Russian forces will quickly take control of key objectives before Nato has a chance to form a consensus, much less; act. I am sure they will also take a goodly portion of traditional (pre 1954) Ukraine to aid in negotiations.

  Do keep in mind that a good portion of Ukrainians are also pro Russian. They are not happy with the foreign (US backed) takeover of their government.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:35 | 4543808 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They don't need alot of troops, since that part of Ukraine is mostly Russian and want the Russians in.  That invasion of forces is ment to not only take over the east but to capitulate the west.  Because many of the "politicians" who are now put in power in the west will probably fold and disappear when they see that Russia is coming back in and they aren't safe anymore.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:40 | 4543838 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Nyet...It is you ignorantly assume too much.

You lack knowledge.


Thu, 03/13/2014 - 13:46 | 4543877 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

You can't compare US/Iraq invasion with Russian Federation/Ukraine invasion.

First of all, it is not an invasion.

Second most important thing is that the whole world pukes on the US but they don't dare to standup because they have the power of US$.

See, just a few are against the Russians. And this my friend gives a whole different view.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:24 | 4544106 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

first off Iraq had a much larger and better equipped military both times the US went to war with them than the Ukraine does now.

second the US had to move a large enough force a great distance to not only initiate combat but also to have enough reserves on hand to adjust and adapt to whatever situations might arise on the battle field. Russia has no such requirement because the Ukraine is right on their front door, so they can move forces in or out and adjust as needed with ease.  

third Putin is not looking to invade the whole of the Ukraine, though it is possible he may send forces into the east, if he does 80,000 troops would be more than sufficient given the amount of support and sympathy the Russians have in the region and the lack of the Ukrainian military capability which would not be able to repel even those forces shown on the map above, at least not without serious direct western military support. 

lastly, calling other people idiotic and ignorant while offering very little substance to back up your own view is just exposes you to be the very things you claim "most here" to be.    

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:04 | 4544338 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

You have answered some questions on this subject for me that I did not know (weak Ukrainian Army and Russian logistics there).  I do understand that E Ukraine is where there are lots of Russians as well as most of its wealth.

But, when did I call people idiotic and ignorant as you just claimed?  Please be specific.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 14:52 | 4544266 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

Yeah I think that there are a lot of closet homosexuals on this board in love with Russian penis and don't forget the S-400 ohooh scary.I'm sure if the US s about to start WW3 they must be sure that we will come out on top.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 20:57 | 4545953 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Maybe get some sleep, seems that nightshift ain't workin for ya

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:13 | 4544388 bh2
bh2's picture

It's all relative. After all, we have Obama. It remains to be seen which of these two presidents will score the largest power-grab -- but one key difference is that Putin would win re-election in a walk today and Obama would probably be shown the door in the US. Moreover, the West hasn't many real trump cards to play if Putin just nibbles away some strategic territorial pieces (as in Georgia) and leaves the rest intact (but intimidated).

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 15:58 | 4544629 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Un Fortunate Fool - - - - you spelled Iraq as 'Irak' twice.

Tends to diminish your credibility.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:28 | 4544761 UpAndComing
UpAndComing's picture really don't need troops to cover the entire country. Just places where things are really driven by nationalists like Ivanofranivsk, Chernovtsi and Lviv. Right Sector groups in those citites will not be able to stand up to a few Russian VDV divisions. It will be quick and painless. As they say over there...the skirt won't even get wrinkled.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 16:35 | 4544798 Perimetr
Perimetr's picture

Kerry is a damned fool. 

If the Russians choose to send in troops, it will be to secure the cities in Eastern Ukraine, and 80,000 troops would be sufficient, given also that the Russians would have air superiority, the people in these areas would support Russia, and it is likely that not all the remaining Ukrainian forces would choose to support the fascists in Kiev.  

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:00 | 4546382 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture
Ukrainian army has the following active forces: Personnel:  Active: 63,100 (generally of poor quality, and a good percentage may defect to Russia) Reserve: 1,000,000 (20,000 activated) - not well organized or equipped. 20k mobilization is probably all they can really do and make combat ready without a long lead time and lots of money to equip and train. Tanks: Active: 727 (These are highly capable - elite and loyal troops assigned) Reserve: around 1,200 - mostly incapable of combat without much time and money to refurbish and make ready AFV's: Active: about 2,500 - same trash as the Russian army employs Reserve: lots of not-combat ready junk. Could be used for spare parts, I guess, to fix damaged active vehicles. Helicopters (active): 72 (generally in a poor state of readiness) Artillery (active): about 750 - poorly trained, but fairly well equiped The Ukranian military suffers tremndous combat readiness problems related to training, equipment readiness, and logistics. A sizable portion of it's armed forces will also either not fight or switch over to Russia.  Still, and I hate to say it, I agree with Court Jester Kerry - 80k Russians are not enough to take over ALL of the Ukraine. They may be able to take the eastern, pro-Russian portions, as they will not face an insurgency and not need a lot of troops to passify the area.  Russia still needs a pretext to move. Civil war in the Ukraine would do it. Just has to be a little fighting. Ukrainian army would need at least one year, $20 billion in military aid, and lots of foreign advisors to get it army up to snuff. No matter what, I think they will start to recieve some portion of that. How it works - Fed prints money and gives it to Ukraine - Ukraine writes checks to US defense firms for western gear and advisors (reservists and veterans recruited by Black Water type firms). However, never underestimate the incompetence of the Russian army. It is likely they will move into eastern Ukraine, and loot and rape their way to be being hated by the local population. The Russian army is more like a well equiped drunken mob rather than a military force.  Also look for US and european military aid to build up Polish, Romanian, Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian, and Finish militaries if Russian goes into Ukraine. If Russian moves, buy stock in Boeing, General Dynamics, BAE, Lockheed Martin, etc. 
Thu, 03/13/2014 - 23:54 | 4546558 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I agree with you on the observation about Putin. 

80,000 versus 6,000 (effectives) plus the huge advantages in armor, artillery, and airpower make this a slaughter.  A sizeable portion of the population would actively support it.  Most would put with it.  A few would resist.  Besides, these people are not so hard as to love goats.  Russia would crush Ukraine and they would crush any resistance thereafter.  Just ask the residents of Grozny.

Putin is just another thug but he's good at it and he's sober.

Thu, 03/13/2014 - 12:14 | 4543317 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

It's times like these when we need our President to issue an executive order.  If he orders the Russians to drop their weapons and come out with their hands up, they will surely abide.

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