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The World Is Screaming For A New Financial System

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

One of the key lessons we can take away from history is that the global financial system changes… frequently.

[12]

 

In ancient times, Roman coins were used across the region by Romans and non-Romans alike who engaged in trade and commerce.

Given how destructively successive Roman governments debased their coins, however, the reserve burden eventually fell to the Byzantine Empire, whose gold solidus coin became the dominant currency in world trade.

Over the centuries, this standard changed several more times. The Venetians, Florentines, Spanish, French, British, etc. each issued the world’s dominant currency at one point or another.

But the fundamentals of those currencies changed. Governments engaged in wanton debasement, mismanaged their economies, and accumulated massive debt levels. And eventually the world shifted to new currencies.

Since the end of World War II, the US dollar has been the dominant currency in the world.

And even though Richard Nixon ended the dollar’s convertability to gold and unilaterally abandoned the US government’s obligations under the Bretton Woods system back in 1971, the world has still clung to the dollar for the past 43-years.

But this is changing rapidly.

The Chinese, which have their own economic issues to deal with, are starting to dump Treasuries in record numbers.

Central banks are buying up more gold. Foreign countries are entering into bilateral currency swap arrangements with one another. And world governments are starting to (rather embarrassingly) demand that the US get its budget and fiscal house in order.

Most tellingly, though, member nations of the International Monetary Fund are starting to revolt.

As one of the major organizations spawned from the post-war financial structure, the IMF’s original goal was to ensure the smooth development of a new global financial system.

Over 180 countries have since become members of the IMF. But the organization runs on a quota system, with each member nation having a certain percentage of the IMF’s overall votes.

The US, for example, has the most power by far with a 16.75% share of the vote. Japan is a distant second with a 6.23% share.

This puts the US in the driver’s seat. And it’s been that way for decades.

But most of the other 180+ nations have had enough. And they’re pushing the United States to massively overhaul the current quota system.

Even typical allies are breaking ranks. Australian Treasurer Joe Hockey recently told reporters at a financial conference that they will “actively lobby” the US to reform the IMF quota issues, and that “Congress must understand that it is in the interest of the US to reform the IMF. . .”

India. China. Just about everyone imaginable is pushing for major IMF reform. Everyone except the Land of the Free. The US government seems to like things the way they are. And Congress has been very intransigent in adopting any planned reforms.

These people have their heads buried in the sand so deep that they can’t even hear the rest of the world SCREAMING for a new financial system.

This is going to happen, whether the US wants it to or not.

And while no foreign government wants a collapse of the dollar, they do very much want an orderly rebalancing of the financial system. This is already under way.

The US government may pretend that everything is fine and dandy. But given the overwhelming objective evidence out there, folks who aren’t on board with this major trend are ignoring it at their own peril.

 

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Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:29 | 4550052 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Geez, no one in my family is screaming jack-squat.

Must me be.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:34 | 4550066 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

You're right ...no one over here know's chit........they're sheep.....but other countries are sick of us and our sanctimonious hegemony......unfortunately the PTB will pull the plug on the USSA and we will be thrown on the scrap heap of empires........You ain't gonna like how it ends.......it will not be fun

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:35 | 4550069 fonestar
fonestar's picture

And Satoshi said unto the people, "let there be Bitcoin".

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:42 | 4550088 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And unicorns.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:48 | 4550110 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Skittle-shitting unicorns!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:51 | 4550118 The Gooch
Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:57 | 4550336 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Gold, bitchez?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:59 | 4550538 Mister Kitty
Mister Kitty's picture

What we need is socialism. Bitches.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:12 | 4551135 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Where and to what scale?

  • I can see some bad failures if
  • it is involuntary
  • it is state-based
  • it is too big (larger than a city)
  • it is too small (which is hard to define) in people vs resources produced

So... other than that, OK, I say let people be unrestricted in joining some collective means of production from what they collectively own. And by unrestricted I mean that any person can leave, can join, can belong to multiple collectives, that none of this socialism will or should do harm to any other person, group, capitalists, the land, etc, or be harmed by others just for being socialist.

Also that angrysinner blog really does suck Fukushima-irradiated donkey-dick. Can't you do something to make it less retarded, more interesting, anything at all?

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 07:37 | 4551500 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Can't you do something to make it less retarded, more interesting, anything at all?

 

Um, that would be a resounding NO. The little narcissist is trying to compensate for a lack of maternal attention and approval. If you saw Despicable Me, think of Gru's upbringing.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 09:21 | 4551590 old naughty
old naughty's picture

The world can continue screaming; but the world is not going to get a new financial system...

Not until the "oligarchs play their decisive role".

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 13:45 | 4552209 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

We need anarchism.

And it is coming!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:12 | 4550382 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Competing currencies.

You please the market and not a government.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:49 | 4551201 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Better idea: Get all of the Dallas Cheer leaders up for auction to the highest bidder. Beats the trillon $ coin hands down.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:53 | 4550129 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Heavily encrypted skittles and the unicorns actually fit into a virtual wallet.

Its PFM ;-)

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:23 | 4550212 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Not entirely sure, but your CV put besides Satoshi Nakamoto's.....  hmm?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:35 | 4550265 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You want me to "invest" in a debt based paper "product" to prove something digital, is not real?

How about I invite you over to my house and you can pour your BitCoins out of your virtual wallet via your i-shit onto the table in front of me and I'll pour out gold in front of you and lets see which fills up the table fastest.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:40 | 4550280 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If digital things are not real how are you using the internet?  Perhaps you need to bring your definition of "real" out of the 12th century?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:49 | 4550310 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Did you get your dinner from Farmville..........??

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:51 | 4550314 fonestar
fonestar's picture

No, it came from a supermarket that processed and paid for all of the orders over internet and telecom systems.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:00 | 4550347 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

fonestar, usually I'm amused wrt your comments.  And here is your statement of the actual and current  truth.

Some who contend with you are not contending with the current reality, but rather their expectations of the future.

You can both be right.

- Ned

{and don't forget WMT and their antennas on the roof}

 

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:12 | 4550380 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Somehow he's contending that in a war with bankers & tyrants, electricity & internet will flow like manna from Satoshi's anus...I think.

Its hard to keep up with the musings of the insane sometimes.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:17 | 4550397 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Food from farmville has got to be the greatest comment on zh. Ever.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:12 | 4550576 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

child, nyet.

and I do not wish u to go back to becoming un-sober, not at all

- Ned

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:28 | 4550440 fonestar
fonestar's picture

What fonestar is contending is that ultimately, TPTB are powerless against the changing of the hour.  They get some brownie points for the work they've done supressing solar and alternative energies, but at the end of the day they still lose.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:09 | 4550568 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I've been waiting for this little insight from you because I knew it all along.

How is it, that the most rabid BitCoiners also promote what is economically unviable without subsidation (via taxation of fiat earnings) by the very same state which you claim to hate to your core?

Now what am I missing here spud?

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:33 | 4551179 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes!  Great idea!  Let's wait until someone develops an entirely sustainable energy system before working on alternative currencies!

Wow, talk about grasping at any and all straws in order to hang on to your government money, "backed" or otherwise.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:55 | 4551219 Hulk
Hulk's picture

We all already have our unlimited free  energy source humming away in our basements fonestar, The Tesla coil !!!

Lighting every light in the house and keeping all our sexual toys charged up and with no wires !!!

Tell you what I am going to do for you fonestar, I'll sell you my tesla coil for the extraordinarily low price of twenty bitcoins !!!
Deal ???

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 01:04 | 4551232 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Thank-you for proving my point.  Rather than be able to back any of your stupid assertions you will just go into an infinite digression of stupid assertions.

Point blank:  Do you believe we should wait until there is a perfect energy grid, end to poverty, 0% unemployment, WHATEVER until developing alternative currencies?

Face it... you will grasp at any stupid fucking excuse to hang-on to whatever currency the government tells you to use.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 08:37 | 4551550 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Now there is your stupidest strawman argument yet.

There will never be 100% percent employment, never be an end to poverty or a perfect energy grid. Regarding the latter, it doesn't help the un-perfect energy grid by wasting energy pumping BitCoin which can't stand on its own without it.

That is to say (sigh, again) it is encumbered...useless in fact, without energy.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 13:34 | 4552174 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Whose strawman?  It was you that was saying that we should wait until there is an advanced powergrid before working on electronic free currencies!

And in the meantime the "stackers" have done what exactly for local currencies?  What?

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 16:55 | 4552728 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

I read, and I cannot concieve how someone can be so lost in virtual reality that they cannot grasp that physical people doing physical things and using physical materials are the basis of everything on Earth.

I see, in my mind's eye, a David Dees illustration of a 'human', in a basement, sitting in front of a keyboard. He is obese, and undressed (except for boxer shorts), and the wrappers of Mc-Donald's hanburgers and french fries adorn the floor around him, as he has one hand on the special-sauce-stained keyboard, and the other one at his mouth, shoving a Big Mac in it. On the monitor he is staring at, a picture of Orwell's 'Big Brother' is stationary, staring at him, and at the bottom of the screen, the word 'Satoshi' is highlighted. In the background, at the stairwell, an older, but no less rotund woman is stopped in motion, holding up an electric bill, and her mouth is open as if screaming. She appears to be quite angry, and her triple-chinned jowls are almost fluid with the fat stored there...

The 'human' doesn't appear to be able to hear this, however, as his ears are covered with headphones, and his eyes are glazed over in total rapture of his 'new messiah' that continues to stare at him from the two-dimensional world that he has created for himself.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 17:20 | 4552815 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"It was you that was saying that we should wait until there is an advanced powergrid before working on electronic free currencies!"

No, you incomprehensible little lying fucktard, it was you:

"What fonestar is contending is that ultimately, TPTB are powerless against the changing of the hour.  They get some brownie points for the work they've done supressing solar and alternative energies, but at the end of the day they still lose."

I never said it. I said the tyrants & bankers would cut it off:

"Somehow he's contending that in a war with bankers & tyrants, electricity & internet will flow like manna from Satoshi's anus..."

Meaning, they will cut it off. Period. Dead. No power, no internet, no BitCoin.

And here I pointed out another scam you were or probably are involved in:

"How is it, that the most rabid BitCoiners also promote what is economically unviable without subsidation (via taxation of fiat earnings) by the very same state which you claim to hate to your core?"

Key words, "economically unviable" & "state" meaning the state has to "subsidize" it at OUR EXPENSE. Maybe you missed it over the last few years where the state gave money to its cronies FOR these unviable pursuits and stuck the taxpayers with the bill.

But I damned sure didn't.

If you're going to falsely attribute words or actions or motives to me at least make it from a different thread, where someone can't just look upwards on the thread & condense them down, like what I've done here.

Lying POS.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:02 | 4550551 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Internet going down will take care of your bullshit posts more than bitcoins...

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:21 | 4550602 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I thought the internet going down was "unpossible" according to BitSters.

You won't recognize me like you're used to seeing me dps, I'm not taking political prisoners anymore...I'm killing them on the field...you cashed out of BitCoin (in fiat) as an "investment" not as a "cause" because you're a greedy bastard who could give a shit about anyone elses loss as you pumped "a cause".

Your name does you justice, in your own sick way of truth telling.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:05 | 4551120 Seer
Seer's picture

And isn't it the intent of the CIA/NSA to "own the Internet?"  And if they need to be paid, well, good luck dodging them by USING THEIR Internet.

It's just way too elitist, bitcoin, given that only a fraction of humans on the planet could ever likely use it.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:53 | 4550324 nmewn
nmewn's picture

BitCow is the latest thing but the enviro-hackers are a little mad about the server farms they're being raised on...lol.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:11 | 4550377 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Please stop feeding Fonestaretard.  He's a useless troll for a pitifull pump and dump of BTC. He has as many BTC as he has brain cells; less than 25. I hope he falls off his tricycle and breaks a leg, then failing to qualify for O'Care, dies of sepsis and is welcomed into a compost pile where he actually mimics the bullshit he espouses...

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:19 | 4550402 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well yeah...but when you get them talking about reality vs the surreal sometimes the interested, dispassionate observer can get a clue of what it is ;-)

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:23 | 4550421 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Two-thousand plus years after Philo's experimentation with gasses the typical Zerohedge reader still struggles to differentiate "real" from "tangible".

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:48 | 4550496 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

AnAnomin-thinge????

We're nay strugglin'

not even Joe Namath

- Ned

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:25 | 4550428 fonestar
fonestar's picture

No, you don't like fonestar because he exposes the hypocrisy and general stupidity of the posters here.  All of your arguments are just boring junk you got from the cartel's propagandists and replaced the gold & silver with Bitcoin.  In a word, pathetic.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:39 | 4550462 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

fonestar..Using gold backed currency will only strengthen the grip the central banks and their family of criminals. To me it is ultra pathetic to see a grown mammal grovel in the hope that the central banks maintain the artificial scarcity of gold so their own amazingly insignificant holdings might be worth more.
Of course, gold is no longer extracted the way it once was. It is now a toxic, dirty, repulsive extraction method which destroys the veryt earth that give4s the possibility of a trade with something else. Like clean water, or a bannana. Pathetic.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:44 | 4550483 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar owns some gold and has nothing against gold.  But the posters here don't even seem to understand the difference between gold as a currency and gold-backed government currency (that's why they always yammer on about "backing").  Plus they rejoice when fake gold rallies and despair when fake gold crashes.  Seemingly unaware that it's not gold (or silver) and their general stupidity, weak logic and lax language only serves to empower those they purport to despise.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:57 | 4550531 TheGoldMyth
TheGoldMyth's picture

fonestar..Central banks/banks print money/debt . This is used to buy/rob/steal everything in the world from mammals like yourself.
Hit the reset button, and see what is left to trade. Most of the planet has allready been destroyed. Gold is not worth much on these planets, or even paper IOU's.

This destruction of collective wealth was done by the banker parasite. If you want wealth, that is only possible by removing the parasite/

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:50 | 4551207 fonestar
fonestar's picture

All good points.  TPTB care less about whether it's gold, cotton, digits, whatever... so long as they control the issuance and can use it to defraud you.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 09:28 | 4551595 easypoint
easypoint's picture

Gold "backed" currency is how we reached the current state of financial decay. You will never hear me clamour for a gold "backed" currency. Substitute money "backed" with anything is the path to fractional reserve banking which leads to the boom and bust cycle, bank runs, savers losing their savings, etc. Eventually fractional reserve banking becomes fictional reserve banking, such as we now observe.

Gold and silver make good money (as long as the gold/silver ratio is not fixed by the state), but when used to "back" substitute money, the theft begins. Thomas Jefferson once illuminated our choices stating, "We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude." The profusion of fractional reserve banking will always lead to servitude to the bankers. The economy of hard money, which does not require "backing," will protect liberty. If we are to possess liberty we must accept a much lower level of trade, toys, gadgets, and begin to concentrate on building a sustainable low to zero growth economy rather than an unsustainable, infinite growth based economy.

You seem to understand that money substitutes, no matter what they are "backed" with will lead us back to the predicament in which we now find ourselves, but will not accept that bitcoin cannot serve as a currency suitable for liberty when it exists on an unsustainalbe power grid that the "miners" do not control. It is simply another substitute money "backed" with the electricity supplied by TPTB.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:50 | 4550312 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Because of this magical thing called electricity & broadband that appears from nowhere through a hole in my wall ,that no human hands or labor had anything to do with in generating.

It really is PFM (Pure Fucking Magic).

Radar has an assigned value too but I don't think I can surf on its waves like you and Satoshi can.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:53 | 4550322 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If you don't hold those electrons you don't own them.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:54 | 4550326 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Tell that to Mt.Gox.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:57 | 4551221 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Which is now an electron free zone !!! It needs more Tesla coil !!!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:33 | 4550453 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

real gold in hand is one thing, not virtual gold, which  could be stole by NSA in a blink

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:38 | 4550469 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Um, no.  NSA cannot hack or steal Bitcoin.  Perhaps if they got in close to your machine or monitored the keyboard, but even then fonestar would not consider that a flaw of Bitcoin's.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:16 | 4551145 Seer
Seer's picture

Bitcoin is perfect.

Perfection doesn't exist in reality.

I recall a BIG-ASS lawsuit against Louisiana Pacific on some siding that they put out.  The shit was failing, and failing very badly: pretty sad to see a newer home appear as a crumbling mess.  LP's argument was that folks weren't installing the siding correctly.  This could very well have been true.  BUT, the point here is that no matter how good a product, it has to meet real-world conditions, and the real-world is less than perfect.

I still look around me at the aging folks who have money (younger folks don't) and wonder how the heck they're going to pick up on bitcoin use... a lot of them don't touch computers.  Yes, less-than perfect.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:12 | 4550174 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Please tell fonestar what your major career accomplishments have been?  Satoshi has created the most amazing instrument in monetary history.  fonestar personally guarantees that his accomplishments trump all of yours put together to the nth degree.  The fact that you could compare such brilliance to fantastical unicorns just shows how truly stupid and backwards the average "layman" really is.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:34 | 4550260 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Fonestar - If Satoshi was really that brilliant he would have found a way to convince the Western bankers to invest in it from the word go. The numbers I had come up with for peer-to-peer would have increased banking profits through wider distribution by 6%. Then Satoshi can help mankind further by steering the ship of man one or two degrees i. the right direction. Instead, now JPM gets it all for free and humiliates the founders. Mhawahaha.

You should have read up on Nikoli Tesla and what Thomas Edison said to him when Edison broke his verbal contract to pay him $50,000 for an in invention of an electric motor. Compromise is always needed with capital if one wishes to help the world. Be wise as serpents, gentle as doves. Who said this? Hint: It wasn't Bhudda (though I love his teaching also).

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:39 | 4550278 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Again, you people don't seem to understand your legal constructs are null and void online.  If you don't believe fonestar please visit thepiratebay.se as living proof.  Satoshi is not some used car salesman out to push his product, he is above that and knows his product will sell itself.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:45 | 4550294 Keyser
Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:47 | 4550302 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oh right... Warren is a big idiot to everyone on ZH until he comes out against Bitcoin.  What a bunch of dunce rejects.....

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:25 | 4550427 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Warren is just so on top of anything technical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrSB1sLgWLE

Tell him to go buy another railroad

 

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:32 | 4550445 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes, fonestar heard that steam power is making a big comeback in Omaha.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:05 | 4551121 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Considering how efficiently steam-power, or in this modern age any coolant heat-recapture system, can be compared to silly internal combustion engines, we'd be far, far better off using it.

Right now we waste a giant amount of energy to both vibration/oscillations and to waste-heat vented directly to non-useful parts (for locomotion) and the environment.

With a well-designed heat-recapture system you can get more mechanical energy out of a steam- or a stirling- engine but with internal combustion against pistons we get nonsense.

We get wasted heat bleeding off the engine block & we get wasted heat out the exhaust and we get absurd complexity increases in design to get power out of that heat before it's pushed out. One major fault already is the non-modular way engines are designed. You can't cut out a bad piece and weld in another. The tolerances are too tight by design & the method of casting the engine once into place means any small fuckup in design carries to every engine of its type made.

We can do better than that. It's fine if modules are cast but they need to be modules we can use after-market to remove faulty segments & to make improvements upon ourselves all the time.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:57 | 4550339 fonestar
fonestar's picture

And fonestar will add the fine folks at thepiratebay.se have done a helluva job mocking your "laws".  They have an entire section you can browse of legal take-down notices that they have utterly trashed for all to see.

 

http://thepiratebay.se/legal

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:20 | 4550408 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

fonestar,

Seriously -- you are more and more sounding like a cult member.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:33 | 4550450 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You are welcome to visit the compound someday.  Just stick close to the guide and don't engage the people directly in dialogue.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:42 | 4550089 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

Amen

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:48 | 4550095 Independent
Independent's picture

Sick and tired of the Ziodollar time for something that loosens the stranglehold of the Jew Mafia on the world

Wonder if the World Jewish Congress bought its own Kool aid and has barely any gold?  Well they do own a lot of US companies though that they bought up with the free Fed dollars

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:43 | 4550092 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

         You're suggesting that an crypto currency that gyrates wildly in valuation, and that's pegged to fiat currencies is the answer to " Global Banking" Phonestar?

 Seriously, you need to crawl out of that crypt of yours' and get some sunlight!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:50 | 4550102 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Fone-Star has seen the light. Shame you guys are not seeing it as well , after all it is fucking bright light once you finally see it , and actually 'get it'  Fone- try to keep a cool head , it was really hard to explain to simple people that the earth was not flat , but they finally got it in the end.... Patience my friend .....

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:59 | 4550145 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Come on Man, I trade options and F/X all day long! I've got no qualms with cutting the "Central Banking" cabal out.

  Value is based on trust, and trust is based on security and reliability. I've yet to see either in the crypto world. I'm not talking about the blockchain security. I'm talking about the exchange medium and management. I'm talking about the rate of exchange security.

  Now I read about N.Y. trying to create and regulate an crypto-currency market and laugh! That defies the whole reason these options exist. These transactions can be tracked via IPs and GPS and will be taxed. (airline miles part deux style) It's sad and unfortunate that these crypto platforms are abused by both sides.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:24 | 4550214 zaphod
zaphod's picture

The trust is that the bitcoin P2P network will enforce a clearly defined limit on the number of coins, and to change this limit requires the agreement of everyone invloved, including myself and yourself. 

Based on this I place siginificantly more trust in the bitcoin system than the dollar system, who's handlers have openly stated they will continue to debase the dollar and even more agressively if required. 

Gold gained humanity's trust time and time again because it's scarcity created a stable supply of stock which governments/churches/corporations could not manipulate. Bitcoin is the same.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:31 | 4550235 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I've already stated the the platform(blockchain) stability is fine. What part of the "human factor" did you miss?

  GOX failed and massive sums of BTC were lost and people extorted for their personal information, not because of "block chain" security!

  Quit trying to scapegoat gold...we all know the pros and cons of holding/owning gold. I have a story about an encripted thumb drive that recently failed for you.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:22 | 4551157 zaphod
zaphod's picture

GOX has absolutely nothing to do with Bitcoin. Only people engaged with GOX lost, everyone not involved was untouched. 

If the COMEX failed would you say the concept of gold and physical ownership of gold was broken because COMEX failed??? No, you would say people were stupid for trusting COMEX with there money, well people were stupid for trusting GOX, it's the exact same situation.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:30 | 4550244 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

They managed to manipulate gold & silver , bitcoin technology is a distrubuted open ledger available to wide open scrutiny by anybody - bitcoin cannot be corrupted , all positions are openly viewable , this system is a Digital Gold Standard on Steroids no physical necessary .... When will the Flat Earth Society finally get it ?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:37 | 4550270 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   Walk into any PM physical dealer and tell me xau and xag are manipulated. You'll see the premium for owning physical instantly!

   I'm not scrutenizing the security of BTC. I'm scrutenizing the security protocals it's handlers and dealers use.

    The NSA looks out for your personal information and will never let it fall into the wrong hands, but your information is secure. <sarc>

 

 

 

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:42 | 4550288 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Last I saw, THE LARGEST BitShit exchange went tits up...shut down, filed for bankruptcy protection from creditors, through the laws of a sovereign state...lol...if you can believe it.

In what "technology" do you suppose Mt.Gox listed their assets & liabilities...BitCoin or fiat? Will their lawyers be accepting BitCoin or fiat in these proceedings?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:55 | 4550328 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The largest Bitcoin exchange is in China.  Before and after MtGox.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:23 | 4550358 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Oh, that just gives me all the confidence in the world in it...lol...China?

And what is the name of this marvelous free market exchange in communist China?

///////////////

Well?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:56 | 4550335 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    @ nmewn >The euro & usd< via Greek and Portugese bonds...

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:05 | 4550360 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I gave it all up about five years ago, never been happier and I sleep a lot better ;-)

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 22:46 | 4550882 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So if the COMEX were to fail, you would lose faith in gold and silver, right?

Right?

Right?

Oh shit...

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:58 | 4551097 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And you T.

How much did you make pumping paper silver for fiat via COMEX? Don't think I didn't see it. From a "silver bull" to BitCoin bull, thats quite a transition, boy.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:01 | 4551105 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

I am still 95% physical silver.  You are the one who doesn't understand the difference between the exchange and the underlying.

Or you do, and you are a liar.

Either way, straighten your fucking life out.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 09:00 | 4551568 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I know what the COMEX is and I know what Mt.Gox was. Even with all the rampant abuse of COMEX it was not set up to trade/insure/gamble in only one thing like Gox was and at the end of the day, the end "product" is quite real unless you too have your raw material prices set through the fantasy of Farmville.

I would suggest you speak to me as a man instead of some kindergartener you're attempting to scam out of candy.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:59 | 4551102 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

impossible.

Comex doesn't trade real gold, it trades electrons.

Bitcoin exchanges don't trade real money, they trade electrons.

Therefore all faith in electrons is Fail and that's that - all digital gold, digital silver, digital dollars, digital bitcoin = fail.

Utter, absolute bankruptcy.

That which has atoms is supremely well-defended against these failures, gold & silver atoms being the chief among the invincible to electron-attacks.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:07 | 4551126 tmosley
tmosley's picture

All that non-sequitur.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 20:59 | 4553520 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

To be a non sequitor requires no logical conclusion step by step but there's every logical conclusion.

Bitcoin has no atoms. Comex contracts have no atoms. They are electrons. Identical.

Gold has atoms. Gold is not being traded on the COMEX that we can be sure of. Allegedly some gold is in vaults controlled by the COMEX but it's not easily proven to actually be there, or actually be used in the trading. What is proven beyond all doubt is that non-gold is being traded as electrons as the amount of gold referenced in the electronic contracts is 20x to 100x, maybe even 120x more than the gold that is even claimed to be in vaults.

I have therefore destroyed the allegation of "non sequitor".

Bitcoin & comex contracts are identical & of no value but a ponzi manipulation lever in the larger market of purchasing goods or saving money.

Gold, silver, copper, iron, aluminum, brass, lead, water, all have atoms & all have intrinsic non-price value since all value is not a price and all prices are not values.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:49 | 4550309 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Madtechnician - Oh JPM gets it's an evolution worth investing in. "Flat earth" thinking is from your end and it's regarding how we behave as a species. We're near the end of our human evolution.

Capital has a wall of money for innovation and it is now CLEAR there is nothing else to invest in. Either humbly accept the dough and steer the ship focusing on providing value PERIOD or get crushed in this accelerating cycle. In such times you live by the sword or you die by it. Remain neutral, be a scientist, add value and you will live longer and be happier. What else can I say? We're an imperfect species that evolves by larger periods of competition and shorter cycles of collaboration (which is when man can do literally do anything).

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:59 | 4550342 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  " If it ain't broken don't fix it", doesn't mean you concoct some different batshit crazy idea that's even more retarded!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:52 | 4550518 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

actually, if it a'int broken, no one can "fix it". - Ned

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 22:47 | 4550887 tmosley
tmosley's picture

But the system of gold and silver valuation IS broken.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:48 | 4551074 Nimby
Nimby's picture

No.  An ounce of gold is still worth exactly one ounce of gold.  The problem isn't gold, the problem is the fiat that the gold is pegged to.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:07 | 4551127 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So you're saying the system of gold and silver valuation is broken?

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:49 | 4551205 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

It broke in 1859.

An oil well was drilled in Pennsylvania.

The value of a man's labour changed.

 

Stack On

 

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 08:03 | 4551521 Nimby
Nimby's picture

Indeed, BUT, gold and silver will still undergird everything else, and when everything else collapses, they will still be there.

 

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:57 | 4551095 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No it's not. Physics is the system and that system hasn't changed based on anything people believe or trade. Gold atoms & silver atoms dictate their valuation (which is never a price). Those values are what silver & gold can do, how safely they can be handled & how heavy they are among a giant list of other physical traits.

You keep mixing up price with value.

Valuation is never price. Price is never valuation.

Once dealing with the realm of price, physical prices are never paper prices and paper contracts have no valuation both for being a thing without atoms (as they are actually electronic contracts, no longer paper) and having no properties of gold or silver.

Is your water supply contaminated with some kind of retardation-drugs?

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:10 | 4551131 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"Valuation is never price. Price is never valuation."

You have literally no idea what you are talking about, and are just stringing words together that sound good.

Nice ad hominem though.  My water comes from a well, and is the cleanest water you can get.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 20:55 | 4553505 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I literally have the only idea of worth between the two of us.

Price is measured in fiat currencies. Currency has no value, fiat has no value, so price has no value.

Value is the physical action of the object. I can make gold crowns for my teeth. That's value. That's not a price.

I can make silver into an anti-biotic topical ointment or mouth wash. I can't do that with bitcoins or dollars.

That is value.

VALUE.

Not price.

You are an idiot.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:06 | 4550365 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Guys - the way I see this is that - I shit you not this is nothing short of a financial transformation never seen since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Once our Fiat system starts to collapse in on itself it will collapse into a Crypto system , it will not be a metal system as you desire , there are so many reaons for this first of all Western .gov;s do not have any gold available , this was all sold long time ago - it's all gone East - do you want a Chinese dictatorship ruling the US ? That is what you are really asking for ...The Chinese already said they do not want a global currency ....It is too much hard work ... The US will also be saying the same but they cannot just say that because if the dollar is dumped this has to be a well managed decline with low chaos when will u guys get this ,,,,,,,,. ??????

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:54 | 4550521 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

fairy tale: "once upon a time"

sea story: "now listen up guys, this is no shit"

- Ned

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:16 | 4550588 ghostzapper
ghostzapper's picture

Agreed.  The U.S. is being coy.  America has more incentive than anyone else to build a new system on top of Bitcoin.  Why play catch up with gold when you simply can't get caught up?

 

I know many here are married to phyzz and I respect that.  But, do people really see a new system where day to day functionality and commerce invoves physical gold?  If you say no then how can you rationally be so dismissive of Bitcoin?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:55 | 4551091 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

We live in a world of physical energy, physical food, physical space and physical damage from time's passage to all machines & living things. Even the mountains wear down over time.

I see a clear future where on-grid currencies are halted because chunks of grid are gone. Power, cells, radio, gone. GONE.

To embrace bitcoin is to dismiss this future and that's a mistake.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:34 | 4550241 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

The PTB will all go for digital currency after the fiats' collapse. The merging of the bank/goverment cabals wil then be able to see and tax every transactions; then insttntly remove taxes from every paycheck and transatrion, They will first pay their own greedy, tyranic asses, and let the plebes squable over  the digital shit that remains. Of course there will be a larger underworld.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 22:42 | 4550867 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You don't have to use an exchange to trade bitcoins.

Use localbitcoins.com.

Fuck, I will trade you some if you want.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:03 | 4551111 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If that is the going price, sure.

I am out to fuck the banks and restore honesty to the system and the world.  I don't really care about getting rich, though that would be a nice side effect.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 20:50 | 4553490 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Then more you the fool because the $5.76 price will as before follow a price more than 10x to 100x higher.

Bitcoin = bankruptcy = ponzi. Period.

There will be no "getting rich" side effect. Bitcoin serves only one purpose: to make people poor who aren't at the first-entry to the ponzi. Nothing else. It's a trick to divert people away from getting tangible goods so when they most need them they will be bankrupt and have nothing.

10 years from now your bitcoin will have hit 5 pennies per bitcoin and been gone for 5 years and my gold will be worth 50 thousand per troy ounce or worse for you - there is no price - and all goods like food, energy & property to live in are priced directly in ounces of gold and silver.

Bitcoin is toast.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:33 | 4551024 Nimby
Nimby's picture

Just out of curiosity, if the fiat currency implodes and the guys that run the power plant can't drive to work because gas is $600 a gallon, how are you going to trade your bitcoins when the internet is down?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:40 | 4550474 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

Dutch tulips is better than bitcoins, but the best is papoila. If not why invade Afghanistan?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 22:40 | 4550859 tmosley
tmosley's picture

>gyrates wildly in valuations

>pegged to fiat currencies

I don't think you understand the meaning of ANY of the words you are using.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:47 | 4551071 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You say that only because he correctly described how bitcoin is used and you wish it wasn't true.

Wishes aren't fishes, bit-chez.

When bitcoin gyrates less than 10% in an entire year and when there are no fiat exchanges at all, only then will the statement be incorrect that you seem to think is already incorrect. Until then it's 100% correct and you're delusional to conclude otherwise.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:05 | 4551119 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So many empty words to explain away a fundamental flaw in an intellectual ally's argument.

Arguments aren't soldiers.  Don't take any side but that of the truth.

But you are human, so you can't do that.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 20:47 | 4553480 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You describe only yourself. The critical flaws in bitcoin remain. The blockchain is non-anonymous & exponentially expanding. The grid it depends on is itself not dependable. The value of a physical money is its non-monetary purpose.

Straight up facts.

To believe this hollow is to believe that LSD is an essential vitamine.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:37 | 4550071 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

When the dollar dies...

Let's have a weenie-roast...

Burning the head weenie, Bernanke, at the stake!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:43 | 4550090 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Ben's job was to help manage the decline , you cannot blame the chef if he's only given dog's shit to cook a meal with. When will you guys get it ??

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:46 | 4550101 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Janet Yellen... is that you?

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:48 | 4550106 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

No , she has been given a pile of 20 year old horse shit to cook dinner with. I hope you have a strong pallet.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:52 | 4550122 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Yep, no doubt she's good at polishing turds!

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:58 | 4550144 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

The reason she got the job in the first place was because she was very good at polishing head ....

Edit - I retract that statement because I do not want to be suicided.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:27 | 4550218 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Too late! The missile-armed drone is already on its way!

(PS - I didn't junk you. Enjoying the banter back and forth. ;-))

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:34 | 4550258 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Oh Fuck - I better get on eBay and buy a 20 dollar GPS jammer .........

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:13 | 4550581 Ifigenia
Ifigenia's picture

The reason is she is a jew

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:00 | 4550146 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

No, she asked for this job clearly knowing what was involved. No strength of palette or palate can endure this power lusting woman.

Miffed;-)

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:45 | 4550098 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Me be it is us.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:50 | 4550115 Jannn
Jannn's picture

Week 10, SGE withdrawals 36 MT, 454 MT YTD

 

http://www.ingoldwetrust.ch/week-10-sge-withdrawals-36-mt-454-mt-ytd

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:26 | 4550227 PaJoad
PaJoad's picture

DoChen, you're one if the hippest commenters on ZH IMO. Please check out philosophyofmetrics.com and start on Part 1 of the SDR series being written about. Seems we could be getting close to a moment....

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 21:15 | 4550585 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

PaJoad thanks for posting website link, its well worth a look at here's a small snip:

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/2014/03/11/sdrs-and-the-new-bretton-woods...

"As the world financial system makes its transition to the multilateral system as defined by the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, the Bank for International Settlements, and all the countries of the world, represented by the G20, no old sovereign debts can be carried over to the new paradigm.  This means the bonds of all countries, including select historical bonds which were issued in such volume and value that their omittance in the new system would create large imbalances in each respective countries SDR composition..... In previous posts we have explained how this process of problem/reaction/solution will be used to drive the sovereign debt and currency crisis around the world to extreme levels.  We will see revolutions, like in the Ukraine and elsewhere, and debt defaults and threats of defaults, which will stir the solution offered up by the International Monetary Fund, Bank for International Settlements, World Bank, G20, and other NGO organizations."

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:27 | 4550229 PaJoad
PaJoad's picture

Dupe

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 17:23 | 4552831 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

In reply to DoChenRollingBearing:

http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2014/3/15/kremlin-if-the-us-tries-to...

 

"Geez, no one in my family is screaming jack-squat.

"Must me be."

WELL, my family doesn't scream at all. I took care of that. They were all screaming about wanting MOAR stuff from me, and I realized that they were going to use me until I was used up, so I took them to the basement and tied them down and put ball-gags in their mouths. Every once in a while, I hear thuds and thumps from the basement, but I no longer have to hear them scream at me. The solution isn't perfect, however, because I still have to feed and water them, and empty their chamber-pots, so I was thinking that I could hire some Ukranian or Russian or Chinese immigrants to take care of this for me.

FONESTAR seems to think that they might accept 'BITECOIN' as payment, so I logged on to my computer to let the NSA do a little DATA-MINING for me. I'm gonna sit back and relax now, waiting for the promises of 'money growth', and the 'perpetual growth of my accounts'.

I NEVER heard them scream the words 'jack squat', however. Is this some type of new hanburger from 'Jack-In-The-Box'? Gotta LOVE them GMO-fed cattle!

 

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:31 | 4550058 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It's Nigeria's turn..........

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:38 | 4550075 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Zimbabwe FTW. They know what the hell they're doing:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user12162/imageroot/...

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:44 | 4550094 yogibear
yogibear's picture

William Dudley and Charles Evens love that chart.

Yellen, Evans and Dudley are following the Zimbabwe model.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:40 | 4550077 superflex
superflex's picture

It's Nigeria's turn..........

and coming to a country near you.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:32 | 4550059 Manthong
Manthong's picture

The world ain't screaming yet, but it will be soon.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:37 | 4550072 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

I'm still thinking somewhere around 2016 is the magic date. That's basically been the trend intersect for the last few years.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:41 | 4550084 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

For the last couple of centuries it's been the xx14's that have been really significant ........

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:14 | 4550388 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Could be. I have no idea. This thing feels like it could bust open at any minute. But they've held it off this long. Unless a large scale war breaks out in the next few months, I think they can kick the can just a smidge farther before the heavens really open up.

We shall see. The longer it takes, the more I can attempt to prepare, but likely the worse the result will be.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:20 | 4550409 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

We really are all in this together. Our best instrument is open dialogue. If we disagree we should still find some consensus rather than another pointless war.

Time will Tell , as William said.

 

 

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 20:58 | 4550535 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"For the last couple of centuries it's been the xx14's that have been really significant..."

I'd thought since Madame Pompadeure and Mae West that it was the DDz that made the difference ;-)

- Ned

{of course, then there is Hillary with one small left breast and two large thighs}

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:37 | 4550074 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

One of the key lessons we can take away from history is that the global financial system changes… frequently.

one of the key lessons we can take away from history is that the global financial system changes... frequently, but the con remains the same: faith based power in a money system. FTFY

SDR's, gold, silver, BTC, fapcoins, etc. do nothing to change the power structure which is the real problem: the opportunistic few that have devised a system of predation and theft and have legitimized it institutionally continue unabated because we don't really learn from history or at the very least the loudest idiots get tenure and have access to the soapbox.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:06 | 4550156 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Not just faith based, but debt-faith based.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:50 | 4551081 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Actually gold, like other tangibles, does a huge amount to change the power structure. No matter how few tangibles a person has that person is far, far better off culturally & fiscally than a person who has nothing tangible & believes intangibles have superiour value. That fool is doomed, the other who has tangibles has options.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:39 | 4550078 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Bitcoin , Bit-chez ,,,,,,,

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 23:49 | 4551077 MeelionDollerBogus
Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:41 | 4550085 adr
adr's picture

I don't want a new world financial system. I don't want a world financial system at all. I want to go back to the old system when money had value.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 18:54 | 4550132 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Yeah , we can all move back into mud huts and caves , trade shells and smack our breeding partners around the head with a stick and then fuck them.

Or - we can evolve like the species we are into new financial paradigms. Your choice , mud hut or electronic money ........

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:01 | 4550148 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

^Another example of an absurd false dichotomy.........

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:07 | 4550160 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its really quite remarkable, all the things he described are real (mud huts, clubs, sea shells etc.) except for the money he describes as useful.

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:19 | 4550193 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

May have well just said Internet instead of bitcoin - that ain't real either  ..

Fri, 03/14/2014 - 19:27 | 4550223 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The internet can be a conduit for money too, so whats your point?...you're starting to ramble, smart guy.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!