This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Microsoft Admits Snooping Through Blogger's Hotmail Account
Earlier in the week the hypocrisy of the big tech firms was exposed when the NSA's senior lawyers "busted" their lies by explaining they knew full-well that they were engaged in the surveillance-state. Today comes yet more 'elite' hypocrisy as AP reports, Microsoft, which has skewered rival Google for going through customer emails to deliver ads, acknowledged Thursday it had searched emails in a blogger's Hotmail account to track down who was leaking company secrets. Scroogled, indeed.
We do spy and search your data - but only if we really need it... (via AP)
the software company "took extraordinary actions in this case."
In the future, he said, Microsoft would consult an outside attorney who is a former judge to determine if a court order would have allowed such a search.
The case involves former employee Alex Kibkalo, a Russian native who worked for Microsoft as a software architect in Lebanon.
...
Besides the email search, Microsoft also combed through instant messages the two exchanged that September. Microsoft also examined files in Kibkalo's cloud storage account, which until last month was called SkyDrive. Kibkalo is accused of using SkyDrive to share files with the blogger.
...
"Courts do not issue orders authorizing someone to search themselves," he said. "Even when we have probable cause, it's not feasible to ask a court to order us to search ourselves."
...
Microsoft also has a long-running negative ad campaign called "Scroogled," in which it slams Google for scanning "every word in every email" to sell ads, saying that "Google crosses the line."
»
- 8126 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Damn MicroCrap spies on us too?! Who would have thunk it? IIt's too bad that work requires me to use their shitty " secure" product.
Time to just start writing checks the old fashion way and trusting the USPS.
D'oh!
This.
And Microsoft should die a slow torturous death. Thankfully it's already in progress (a big shout out to Steve Balmer for that one- you the man Steve!).
We are going to be living in an open source world soon. And the challenge from here on out will be keeping it 'clean' and free from Gov. eyes.
This is awesome...maybe some patriotic russians who work for US companies will start doing something to spill all of these American companies dirty secrets....maybe some Russian programmer who works at JPM??? or maybe JPM suicides him before he can leak anything.
of all the threats to MS... Balmer and crapple isn't one of them.
MSoogled?
The USPS photos and saves every piece of mail they send. Once I got something from my dad (some candies for my birthday) delivered, that had clearly been opened and taped up - the shittier thing is they opened it and took some of the candies, and taped it up and delivered it. Like I want to eat candies that their grubby fuckin hands have been on.
Fuck the USPS to. USPOS is more like it. They govt is 100% thieves and assholes.
Yup. USPS.
of course, Email has ALWAYS been a postcard, hasn't it?
I switched MS Stazi v7.2 ... it fucks me over great now.
I used to use Desktop Spy v8.3 but the camera res really sucked on that one.
People look at your email all the time at work.... have done for years.
As Network Admin, I could spend all say looking at my user's email.
However, I happen to have morals, and do not do so unless directed to by Management as part of an investigation.
You'd be one of the few with morals!
Or he has a real job and he's simply too busy. Most real network admins are in such a situation. Sadly, it seems like most are not real. Fortunately, they are too illiterate technology wise to figure out how to do it without call a consultant (me). Having to explain the bill for something like that can be hard to do.
Invoice:
Setup read access to x, y, and z accounts for John Doe.
Worked with John Doe so he could access and read emails in x, y, and z accounts.
PS - Enjoy explaining this to AP when they kick it up the chain for justification.
I remember watching the firewall at our old office on a random Thursday afternoon, watching all the users hitting porn sites (at that point probably before any good blocking software) - same admin that showed me that was infamous for reading email, keeping up on all the good gossip. Never put anything in email that I didn't want to discuss with my managers from that point on. Now I assume same for gmail, hotmail, and all searches. Why I'd ever type on a site like this is beyond me, sometimes. Dark days.
At one Comms company, I used to share a ride home with the Sysadmin. Engineers like me were complaining how slow the network was and how it was interfering with our project timelines. I asked him what was going on.
The sysadmin said the congestion was due to non-stop porn being downloaded by management. High-level management. The solution to our project problems? Management bought a truck-load of extra bandwidth.
If you don't type on a site like this you are giving in or just don't care. Fight back in every way.
NSA, can you see this? Good. Go to hell you traitors.
"However, I happen to have morals, and do not do so unless directed to by Management as part of an investigation."
I see. You have morals when there is no financial gain. But, when management directs you to (as per your job in which you receive compensation), your morals go out the window?
Pathetic loser. How much would the NSA have to pay you to spy on the American people?
What an ignorant, pathetic retort.
Data on a company's desktop, laptop, servers, backups, mail servers....ALL OF IT IS OWNED BY THE COMPANY. The company is legally responsible for it. So guess what, if its kiddie porn, then the company now "owns" kiddie porn. At least at my job we have disclaimers for this stuff saying You are on a device owned and maintaned by the company, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.
So yeah, when the HR director comes to you and says pull this fellow's email, you comply, because it is your job to do so. You are not protector of people's privacy, you are maintenance and administration of computer systems. To the extent that you "protect people's privacy" - it is largely simply not abusing the 'privelege' and going and snooping by yourself without it being at the direction of HR or management.
The distinction between work and people's personal shit is NOT insignificant. You dont own work shit. The company does. You have no RIGHT to privacy on your company's stuff, because you dont fkn own it.
By your definition, what the NSA does is perfectly legal. I don't own the cable lines, so all my data can be monitored. Got it buddy. How much does the NSA pay you?
Nice logic circiut you've got there. Its faulty though, and you are missing or ignoring very relevant facts about the difference between a company's data and someone's personal data. The government has no right to either.
And if you dont know that "your data" on your company's computers is not yours but it is technically your company's data, then all you are doing is bitching without knowing all of the facts of a situation.
Fuck the NSA and the police state. But I've been a computer admin for quite a long time and I know what's mine, what isnt, and what my job is if management comes and asks me for certain COMPANY DATA.
Does the internet company have a right to my data if it owns the cable? Can't they willingly collude with government since the internet company owns my data? Perhaps you can explain the flaw in my logic Mr. greater than God know it all computer admin.
You're conflating so many things its not even funny. I cant believe another idiot had enough of a hole in his head to junk me on that too.
Your internet company is providing a service to you. What does your contract with them say? Of course it is not ok for them to go behind your back and sell your data to third parties or governments. What Verizons and AT&Ts of the world have done is utterly despicable and all of these POS tech companies have violated their contracts with their users. There should be massive lawsuits against these companies. Where are they?
You provide a service to your employer. And they compensate you for it with money and healthcare and whatever other perks. You use their computers, their programs, to do things that make the business run. Where is this expectation of privacy coming from while using hardware that does not belong to you, while you are providing a service for an entity where you are explicitly not supposed to be doing personal things on the time they pay you to be doing your job and not screwing around on the internet? They pay you to do your job, not to fuck around on the internet.
How you draw a congruence between you fucking around on work's time and computers and your ISP is beyond me. That's why I used the word ignorant before. I dont understand how it is you came about to thinking that you should somehow have all the same personal privacy at work as you do at home. (Yeah, I know what a joke using the word privacy is, but my point is, it is something you should expect at home and it is most certainly NOT something you should expect at work. Your trying to use those as ammo to say I support our fascist police state in any way shape or form just means your argument is not as solid as you think it is, otherwise you wouldnt be trying to reach across a canyon to junk me.)
Sorry man! I can't debate someone with a wandering argument.
PRIVACY is part of the service your ISP provides to you.
It isnt even the same concept when you talk of using work's computers. You are providing a service to them.
If you had a repairman at your house to fix your furnace and he requested to look something up on the internet, would you give him free unfettered unobserved access for as long as he wanted, or would you sit there with him and make sure that you will indeed only be charged for the labor time he has put into fixing your issue? Would you have a problem if he went browsing around to entirely unrelated sites? Porn? Would you be incredulous if he expected privacy?
It would of course be your call - just as it is your company's call whether or not they decide to look more closely at their data which you worked on.
Make a little more sense?
You must agree to no expectation of privacy or you're fired. That is the gist of your argument. A person who values privacy can of course look for work elsewhere. In the real world, this is not so possible or practical. Basically, you got the worker by the balls. The orginal comment was about MORALITY. It seems as though you have none if you feel it is ok to unconditionally violate somones privacy if they work for you. Whatever you got to do to sleep sound at night buddy.
I'm sorry that you simply just dont fucking get it. How I have explained it is how it operates in the real world, and if you dont believe that then that just makes it seem as though you have yet to get out there and experience that great big real world.
No expectation is not something you agree to or not. It is a legal fact of life where busniesses, data, and computers are concerned. In the real world, this has come directly from companies covering their asses from the idiotic actions of employees and ensuing litigations. Trust me, the "companies owning the data" is for their protection against litigation and it gives them not only a way to cover their ass, but to provide cover to fire you if you fuck up too much.
Were I the busniess owner, I wouldnt be fishing for shit....but if I had an employee constantly screwing off, hell yeah I can use that to fire his ass. What's immoral about that? I own the data, this mofo is breaching his contract with me.
I understand the original comment was of morality, but you're sitting there bitching at a guy for doing his job when you only have these neat little theories about how the world works in your head, completely ignorant of the situation on the ground - and calling that a moral failing of his. Sorry, but someone needed to point out that this was no moral failing of his and your outburst was nothing more than ignorance of how things work in the real world.
Christ,.,ya try and explain one simple little thing...
Sorry, but legaility does NOT establish morality. I understand how the real world works. It works the way it does because people like you just do what they are told.
and merely using something for a short time does not establish ownership
you still have no leg to stand on. where exactly is it that you are getting an expectation of privacy when using someone else's shit?
So the internet company can give my data to the government? You see, we're back to this argument. I was never arguing legality. I was always arguing morality. Whether or not something is legal, doesn't make it right. Keep snooping on people at the request of your masters, buddy.
So basically, you still refuse to explain where you ever got the idea that whatever you do on your work computer, on work time should be completely private.
Or is your entire argument that it would simply be "more moral" for a company to completely disregard any non-work activities on-the-clock.
I'll skip addressing all of the words you're trying to put in my mouth.
I gotta laugh when answering a question honestly means the destruction of one's argument.
Happens plenty often with the AGW crowd, too
You must admit that violating someones privacy under threat of termination is wrong. If someone is not doing their job, fire them. There is no need to violate someones privacy. Legal or not, it is wrong. You are wrong. You have no leg to stand on.
Privacy...
you keep using that word...you either dont know what it means or you dont know what its context is.
and its not "let me violate your privacy or you're fired"
its
"I own this shit, you do not."
Look. I can't stay here all day to give you a morality lesson. Heck I understand. I would be mad too if I just found out that my behavior as an computer admin has been immoral.
and I wont sit here all day giving you lessons on just how it is the world operates, and no matter how many skittle shitting unicorns dance across your vision as you dream up great ways for the world to work, its not going to work how you want it to.
sorry you had a tough time identifying the main idea of a paragraph back in grade school
I know how the real world operates. It operates the way it does because of people like you. You derive your morality from the State and its laws. You should hold yourself to a higher standard. Once we all do that, the state of the world will improve. So stop with your nonsense and self imposed superiority over me.
I was never arguing about legality or the state of the real world. This is about morality. Go find some.
call us back when you actually get a bill for your student loans in another 4 years, and maybe perhaps gain a modicum of experience outside of school.
the only thing I've done wrong here is respond to your ignorant ass so many times
I must have hit a nerve with you. It's natural to be angry. Is ok. Just realize there is a better world possible and it starts with being a better person. I suggest you find some morals and integrity above the standard set by the State. Hopefully, you do.
No, its just that at some point you realize you're talking to a wall and no amount of common sense is going to change that wall's mind. I'm not angry, its just frustrating dealing with morons who draw a caricature in their heads and there aint a damn thing you can do to convince 'em it aint real.
Let me help you to understand the REAL world. In the REAL world, people use company time/computers to send personal e-mails. In the REAL world they take a break for a few minutes and browse websites. In the REAL world, companies can snoop on this activity and in the REAL world, employess who dissagree can find a job elsewhere. In the REAL world, this is not practicle or possible. In the REAL world, workers are forced to suck it up. This is known as coersion/intimidation/force/ect. NOW, you tell me how this behavior is not immoral. I bet you can't.
Dude please stop. Detached is right. You must be in college or something and you've never worked in a company before. Just a tip, after you get a job, you should know that everything and anything you do on your work computer belongs to the company. And it's being monitored.
It's not about moral/immoral. The fact is, the company owns all that crap, and the company is responsible for it.
Now, what you do in the privacy of your own home, on your own ISP, is a different story.
Assumptions make fools of us all. This is a morality debate. NO QUESTION, a place that employs you has the legal right to snoop on everything you do at work. That is not up for debate. It is immoral to do so however without explicict consent. Sorry.
we've already been privvy to your opinion 10 times over. why dont you back that assertion up with something outside of how you think the world should be in your head.
you dont own the data, the company OWNS it. as such, they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. what's so hard to understand, and how is them doing whatever the fuck they want with their own data somehow immoral?
/grabs popcorn and watits for the chubby checker show
Let me help you to understand the REAL world. In the REAL world, people use company time/computers to send personal e-mails. In the REAL world they take a break for a few minutes and browse websites. In the REAL world, companies can snoop on this activity and in the REAL world, employess who dissagree can find a job elsewhere. In the REAL world, this is not practicle or possible. In the REAL world, workers are forced to suck it up. This is known as coersion/intimidation/force/ect. NOW, you tell me how this behavior is not immoral. I bet you can't.
so you'd be perfectly comfy leaving your furnace repair guy alone for however long with your computer, him enjoying complete privacy, because you checking on what he did or being present while you let him use your computer would somehow be amoral? because that is a real world analogue to you using your employer's PC.
for some reason you think covering one's ass in congruent to being immoral. and you're unable to see how paper thin your argument is either. I'm done trying to explain this very simple fact to you and how it does and does not relate to morality.
and nice try projecting characteristics on me. very very....clever, I've never seen that tactic before!
1) Really bad analagy, but I'll bite. If I wasn't trusting enough to let the furnace repair guy use the computer unattended, I wouldn't let him use it at all. So there you have it. Case closed on that one.
2) You are still confusing what is legal with what is moral. I am done trying to explain that simple fact to you. There are other ways to "cover one's ass" that does not involve taking away ones privacy by force/coersion. Yes, privacy even exists in a cubicle at work. Sorry that bugs you so much.
3) Nice job not anwering my last question. You CAN'T explain why it is not immoral.
1)nice cop out
2)like I said, you keep using that word out of its range of applicability, you think it applies in all sorts of ways where it really doesnt, and the real world doesnt treat it as if it is, and that's why you've been told by a handful of people here you are wrong for having told digntlman that he was immoral for doing his job.
3)whatever, mother theresa. I didnt bother, so make an assumption...yah!
over and out
1) Not a cop out. That is the reality and the truth. Sorry it goes against your immoral behavior. Also, like I said it is a bad analagy. Clandestine vs forthright.
2) Still didn't answer my question. You never will because it doesn't adhere to your set of morals/beliefs.
3) I got 8 upvotes and 2 downvotes on that comment. I don't care about the votes, but it shows that you are now lying. FYI, lying is immoral too.
Try to hold yourself to a higher standard that what the law and the State prescibe. Please.
lol you got 8 upvotes before someone pointed out your logical fallacy, and zero thereafter. what does that tell you?
and save your sanctimonious bullshit rhetoric for when you yell up the basement stairs at your parents.
Yeah, and the only votes you got where you own. What fallacy is that? You still can't and still wont explain why coersive end to privacy is no immoral. Over and out, LOL.
You're still at it man? :D Moral or not is irrelevent. It's neither moral nor immoral. But I don't think he'll get it. Maybe he will in a few more years.. but maybe not. ;-)
lol...too easy to hit f5 :) it makes ya wonder what sort of indoctrination some people experience.
Indocrination? If that were the case, I would be you and derive my morals from the State. You are too easy to discredit.
that's another piss poor retort, frosh. apparently another thing they dont teach kids any longer is how to construct a good solid argument.
donmindme is your second account. You sir are a loser. Goodbye.
Care to explain? Forgive me, but I don't take your opinion as fact. While some behavior can truley be amoral, this is not that case. Please tell me how coersion is not immoral?
Care to explain? Forgive me, but I don't take your opinion as fact. While some behavior can truley be amoral, this is not that case. Please tell me how coersion is not immoral?
Basement dwelling kiddies are going to hate you. Of course you are 100% correct and that makes it burn all the more.
What is the pattern in your avatar?
sovereign hexagrams...but there has only been a couple people who have understood its application-meaning I presented there. so perhaps I have just explained it too fkd up, intp welcome to my world....but my teacher understood immediately when I explained, he smiled and jumped and clapped his hands like a giddy schoolchild. it was pretty funny :)
bsement dwelling kiddies will junk me for no reason, too
either that or its that whole insecurity thing...dont worry kiddy, I'm sure mom and dad will let you live in the basement well past 26.
donmindme is your second account. You sir are a loser. Goodbye.
so astute he can jump to preposterous conclusions. given your previous comments, I am not surprised. its got to be because the dude agreed with me or something, sounds about enough proof for you. asshat.
No. It is your second account. I looked up post history. Later loser.
lol, ok, whatever asshat. post history? you're going to have to do a little better than that. I can tell you all the ways youre a jackass and a fool, I dont need two accounts to do it.
I looked at his profile, and I didnt know ZH existed 3 years ago, so go suck a tailpipe.
Hardy matters. You lost. Even the original post I commented on admitted that spying on employees is immoral. Go take a good hard long look in the mirror.
BTW, hate to get the last word in, but your next post will go unanswered. I will not read it. It is a shame you had to sign into an old account to reply to yourself. Good luck in your IT classes at Univeristy of Phoenix.
lol IT classes. they didnt exist when I was in school, pal. unless you wanted to program cobol.
I lost? lol again, you and what doppleganger have been the only two junking my posts, everyone else got bored and stopped reading this bullshit. You made your case, doing what you want with your own fking computer is immoral. Got it.
From the entire rest of ZH readership that reads the comments,
THANK YOU FOR NOT REPLYING!!!
Wow, that is idiotic. YOU are the one conflating NSA spying with private property ownership. If you are paid to go to work and use their equipment they have a right to know what you are doing with with their time and their equipment.
You are a moron. If you want to do personal business do it on your personal time with your personal equipment and bandwidth.
Would you go into someone else's home and write a note on one of their sticky notes and then bitch when they read it?
if you were going to leak Microsoft confidential information, why the *beep* would you not at the very least use a non-Microsoft email account?
Yep. And probably Skype for all your trans-border chats...
Also, interesting timing, Roosians are software thieves....bomb the roosians.
Remember the guy who supposedly stole GS's trading algo code?
ori
Hippo Critters, one and all.
Too much power in the hands of technologists. Too much dependence on technology.
Too much trust (at large) of these 3 letter agency compromised titans.
What did Linus Trovalds end up doing with his life??????
Exactly.
ori
Just needs a software czar.
I'm sure Larry Elison is itching to get that job.....
And the software czar just needs to declare a war on software. That'll do it...
Just say no.
so... they send me 500 spam emails each day...
they read the emails themselves which I don't...
and....
the next day I get 510 spam emails because they're read...
hmmm...
Another NSA co-opted monopoly company...this is the fukked-up world we are forced to live in because everyone lost their balls and won't revolt...sure we will lose a few lives in a revolt, but I'm willing to risk it to clean the scum outa the system
You go first...
Actually you should go first, judging by your name. I'll be right behind you, appropriately.
Arrest Bill and Melinda Gates for genocidal war crimes. Stop Monsanto.
And Halliburton...
For every crime that Microsoft admits to, there are a billion it will cover up. Here is a small sample of some of Microsoft's crimes against its "valued" customers:
Snowden Leaks Confirm That Microsoft Xbox is Target for In-House Camera Surveillance, Not Just Chat Surveillance
Microsoft and Bill Gates Are Still Defending What’s Criminal (Warrantless Mass Surveillance)
Microsoft’s Role in Political and Industrial Espionage Concealed
Microsoft Pays CBS (ZDNet/CNET) Which Calls Snowden a Traitor, ACLU Should Sue Microsoft Over Skype
NSA Does Not Need Microsoft Windows Crash Reports to Spy on Windows Users, Apple Equally Spy-Friendly
More Details Revealed About How the NSA Infiltrates Windows and Other Proprietary Software, Governments Should Now Ban Microsoft
Xbox Live Shows Even Higher Degree of Microsoft/NSA Collusion
http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_and_the_NSA
Bill Gates gets made
It's only the one time, don't worry, they promise...
Folks, the scum in control are even worse than you imagine. I' put a lot of money, in fact, all I have, on the fact they (NSA/GCHQ et al) are recording EVERYTHING you do online and on the phone. This information will be stored so if they want to look at you in the future, all they'll do is push a few buttongs and there's a whole smorgasboard of what you've been up to, talking to, reading and the like.
You are just now figuring this is worth betting on? At this point it's like betting all your money that water is wet.
Calculus99:It's only the one time, don't worry, they promise...
Folks, the scum in control are even worse than you imagine. I' put a lot of money, in fact, all I have, on the fact they (NSA/GCHQ et al) are recording EVERYTHING you do online and on the phone. This information will be stored so if they want to look at you in the future, all they'll do is push a few buttongs and there's a whole smorgasboard of what you've been up to, talking to, reading and the like.
Yea, but they NEED to do this to catch "terrorists". Boy you sure sound like a pinko commie to me. This is the goold 'ole USA (NSA) we're talkin' about. Government knows best so just shut up, ok?
(large dollop of scrcasm).
These fuckers need to be brought down.
How exactly?
Now we know why Gates says Snowdon is no hero.
He actually means he is no hero of his.
In order to get on that list you need far less morals.
I suggest next time you buy software or computers, make sure it has nothing to do with microsoft!
Next time you copy software, make sure it has!
While I agree with you there is a problem with something you say. Avoiding Microsoft will not avoid the spying. The NSA is all up the butt at Apple and Linux too. I would be shocked if AMD, Intel, and Motorola are not imbedding stuff for the NSA in their chips. I honestly don't think it matters, privacy wise, what you use.
The only good thing is that you can use Linux for free and at least keep a couple hundy out of their pockets for a while. In the end they will get that money too - taxes, inflation, and bail-ins will get what you don't spend.
The only way is to just stop playing the game. Go low tech and debt free with hard assets you can physically protect yourself. This is a hard thing to do for most of us.
So here's the bitch of it. These pioce of crap US tech firms are buying cheap programming talent overseas. They arfe colluding to prevent programmers in this country from selling their services to the highest bidder. They arfe complaining azbout the number of H1-b visas available for hiring overseas talent. They are sequesting trillions of dollars overseas to avoid US taxation that would the schools turn out more tech graduates. and, now they are reaping what they sow....foreign workers w no allegiance to the US, selling these companies out for cash or patriotism to rtheir homeland.
Fuck these silicon valley bean-counters. Dig your own graves.
I'm sure that the Indian who just replaced Balmer will fix that.
On the plus side all the unskilled illegal immigrants they want to legalize can be used to braid rope.
Is that like worse than Comcastic?
It's Commiecast actually. Try to keep up. BTW - I get that term from someone that I consider extremely liberal. If that fruitcake can see it...
Repeat after me; everything that I type and every site that I visit can be seen by others, including the US Government. I sleep like a baby, and I will continue to sleep like a baby in the future on my cot at the FEMA camp. See you there!
Yandex mtf's!!!
At least Microsoft wasn't using its spying on an employee to facilitate killing the guy. Knowing where someone is 24 hours a day, possible with real time checking of their whereabouts using PRISM, is just the information a hit team needs. Ask Michael Hastings.
Start here.. expand the search query.
http://point-logic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=2
Wow, M$ is spying on us. What a shocker!
Yes, but they only did it this one time.
Techies (especially GATES & the Jew kids at facebook & google) make me sick!
Q1 : When in the 'F' is the Judicial system while all these 'F'ers abuse our privacy and liberties?
Q2 : Why is American not burning those 'F'ing' buildings down?
Have a nice weekend!
Yeah, i guess it's time to use Russian email services , at leaset those guys don't give a f.. if you are screwing american corporations :)