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Spain Rules Catalonia Independence Referendum "Unconstitutional"
With Scotland moving ever closer, Crimea having chosen their own path, and Venice overwhelmingly voting for secession from Italy, the Spanish government has put its foot down on the Catalonia's planned independence referendum. As Time reports, In a Tuesday ruling, Spanish judges found Catalonia’s planned independence referendum to be unconstitutional. Of course, just as in Crimea, this is being ignored by the Catalan government - a region seen as the powerhouse of the Italian economy - who exclaimed "this will have no effect on the process."
...
In a Tuesday ruling, Spanish judges found Catalonia’s planned independence referendum to be unconstitutional, but secessionists in the Spanish autonomous region (called a “community” in Spain) have vowed to proceed regardless.
“This will have no effect on the process,” said the Catalan government’s spokesman Francesc Homs on local television.
Although stifled under the yoke of the Franco dictatorship, Catalonia has long felt cultural and linguistic disctinction from the rest of Spain. In recent years, it developed into a powerhouse of the nation’s economy. However, amid the country’s financial crisis, Madrid has been urging national unity.
“No one can unilaterally deprive the entire Spanish people of the right to decide on their future,” Spain’s conservative Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy told the parliament, which is due to debate the referendum on April 8.
...
Last September 11, Catalonia’s national day, hundreds of thousands of Catalans formed a vast human chain across the region to call for independence. The referendum, if it goes ahead, is planned for Nov. 9.
As Pater Tenebrarum noted, nation states are starting to splinter
One of these days, one of the secessionist movements in Europe is likely to succeed and then a domino effect may be let loose. The Crimea's recent change of allegiance has probably energized these movements further.
And it is about time, too. The concept of the centralized, large-scale nation state is anachronistic and should be abandoned. The increasing centralization of the EU is going in the wrong direction. Once again it must be stressed that for the individual citizen, it matters not one whit whether self-important EU politicians and bureaucrats can 'throw around their weight on the international stage'.
What matters far more is that they would likely be treated a lot better and become more prosperous if everything fell apart into tiny independent territories. That would definitely not mean that there could be no free trade zone, or that every region would necessarily use a different currency. The main goals of the founders of the EU, namely free trade and free movement of capital and people need not be abandoned – on the contrary, they would likely be adopted without hesitation. When a great many small territories compete with each other for citizens, then they are all going to be forced to make a good offer that makes people want to stay. Large declines in taxes would be an immediate effect, but not the only effect that could be expected.
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Awesome, a return to city-states. Whowuddathunkit?
Separation for everyone! Everyone should declare their independence!
Too bad Russia can't invade Catalonia.
why can't they? :)
Sure...they can use their newly-Russian Crimean naval bases to sail into the Mediterranian Sea for an amphibious assault. Also known as the old "banana in the tailpipe" tactic.
Well, there were some articles about Putin's "madness" recently. What IF he decided to take the bad pill?
Putin's "madness"
Remember, anyone who objects to a libtard is either mad or even worst, evil. Pointless blabber as always.
Or even worse than evil....rayciss!!
Perhaps the Catalonians can put out a call for aid to the Russians, Indians or Chinese?
I'd love to see that happen
It's just a sad carnival to hide political disaster.
I just hope this gets so wrong something changes fast.
People choosing freedom and self-governance? Preposterous.
Catalonia is the powerhouse of Italy?
hmm....and surely Friuli-Venezia is the powerhouse of Spain.
wow! somebody realized that, awsome :o
well, ok, Catalogna is to Spain what "Padania" (the north valley between Alps and Appennines) is to Italy .. not too good the educational system in the US, right? ;D
Will they send NATO to bomb the Catalonians?
Didn't the US send 600,000 of our young men and women to their graves over this issue in a civil war?
Given Obama was in Brussels yesterday, and with his stellar track record in Egypt, Ukraine, Libya, Syria, etc., I'm surprised Belgium hasn't already fallen into civil war and there isn't a referendum today to join Russia.
Catalonia is a powerhouse of the Italian economy?? Who cuda guessed.....
Spanish? now which one is it?
Tyler must think all dagos are the same.
Sorry, but we 've just started it... .
All your assets belong to us. Self determination is only for those who we invade conquer and colonize.
Signed The EU/NATO/US
ouch
the truth hurts
Considering what a corrupt mess central states have become, city states does not look too bad.
F yeah! and I'm going to be a plank owner in the thieves/assasins guild, too. Might as well get started early.
I'm going to get into gibbet manufacturing.
the Catalan government - a region seen as the powerhouse of the Italian economy
Can't keep Italy apart from Spain? Sad.
Torunaga: "There are no 'mitigating circumstances' when it comes to rebellion
against a sovereign lord."
Anjin San: "Unless you win." -- Shogun, James Clavell
They already sort of did, if you walk the streets of Barcelona you will here the Russian language very often. I have lived in Barcelona for 10 years and this has all happened in the last 3. It seems that for some reason our Russian brothers prefer the Mediterranian lifestyle over the Moscow suburbs.
Catalonia
should contact Putin
What could stop them?
I have the results of my own referendum on whether I should or should not secede from the USSA, and the tally is a resounding 1 vote for and 0 votes against! Goodbye to the 535 rocket scientists lounging on the shores of the Potomac, and good luck!
I downvoted you first for your nick: what's so cool about satanism that you make its symbol your name? Like satan much?
Next I thought how strategically dumb your suggestion ultimately is: we can't win against millions of co-conspiring satanists by going it alone. Doing that is basically abdicating entirely, and obviously, we will only ever be a real danger to them when good people start working EFFICIENTLY together, teaming up together like they do.
'They' would certainly like us to give up on figuring out how to work well with our fellow man, to stop thinking about how to undo their crappy programming...
And the ICJ ruling of 2009 on Kosovo made that possible.
People with balls of steel make independence possible, not the folks handing out the paperwork.
Well, it is more than obvious that government is a failed concept.
Penalty for early withdrawal?
10years ago I read an article about city states .... Foreign Policy I think.
Tapas and tyranny!
We should do this in the US.
Separate the cities FROM the states.
Let the cities wallow in their Blue Wonderfulness and the states can propser without the yoke of the cities on their shoulders..
Democracy!
Why is it Democracy now and it wasnt in 1860?
what's texas waiting for? they leave the union, i'm moving there.
If the authorities in Washington, will be captured by the rebels and the Nazis, with the support and funding from Moscow, then Texas will abide by the decisions of these rebels and impostors?
Yes or no?
beat you too it. Moved down here in February. great place....lots of opportunity
Fo sho!
Looks like collectivism is a soul killah...
As bad as the caste system?
Just you wait, one day the rat-smokahs gonna RISE up!
Gonna RISE up 'an shout "OLD Brahmin, let my PEOPLE go!".
"Of course, just as in Crimea, this is being ignored by the Catalan government - a region seen as the powerhouse of the Italian economy - who exclaimed "this will have no effect on the process."
Correction* - powerhouse of the SPANISH economy -
Sashko
Yes saw that too...unless there is a new axis forming between Spain and Italy (across the Med ?). What if Venice and Catalonia formed a partnership ? it is possible these days.
It's only possible in Civilization V.
Spain, Italy, what's the difference, they all lean over...
to a bunch of assholes called Pax Americana!
What bad taste!
"Of course, just as in Crimea, this is being ignored by the Catalan government - a region seen as the powerhouse of the Italian economy - who exclaimed "this will have no effect on the process."
Correction* - powerhouse of the SPANISH economy -
Sashko
"Italian Economy"? WTF, crazy algo writers at Zerohedge now 2. We are lost.
Ag, what the hell, it is just a small far of plekkie in another continent.
Paris, London, Madrid, who cares!
Wait a minute! That's not supposed to happen! Pushing the plebeians to the brink is supposed to have them running toward centralization! Oh no!
Quote:
"We will crush them between the millstones of income tax and inflation"
Tyler C4ll me,
Italian economy? Catalonia?
NP (Np Problem). Just have a bunch of (ex-Franco) Fascists storm and take over the Gov, and they'll be fine.
Afghanistan, Tunisia, Egypt, Lybia, Syria, and Ukraine have demonstrated that the US Regime will readily support such "Hostile Takeovers" -- as long as they are hostile to its enemies.
p.s. I do hope for their sake the Spain has Oil or Gas, or at least an attractive Pipeline Alley (from N.Africa to the EU).
;-)
The Dr. Maturin character in the books by Patrick O'Brian has a good insight into the catalonian independence issue.
I am Catalan. I live in Italy. As it seems to me that I'm the only mother fucker doing any work around here, I agree with the above typo.
I am going to have to go back to school in a geography class....this is changing all so fast.....Crimea..Indian Ocean..now Catolina.....my globe is toast
i still have my globe from when i was 7...before the ussr breakup, before yugoslavia broke up, czech, etc
amazing what changes happen in 30 years
In the next 30, we probably see the US balkanized.
I am in favor of decentralization, personally. It acts as a natural limiter to gov't corruption.
Sadly though, I believe this collapse of the nation-states will be used as the reason that there has to be a level of global governance to regulate the "chaos."
Especially given the numbers of nukes running around, as well as large standing armies.
Remember when Catalina was a Pontiac and life was more simple ?
Lets give peace a chance! Just make sure that the ambassodors for both the dagos and the spics aren't amputees.
Neither side can talk without their hands!
thank you, thank you! Try the veal.
NorCal/SoOrg Next! - I would move there in a frikking heartbeat.
NorCal? Isn't that the place referred to by some wags as the "People's Republic of Northern Kalifornia"?
I'm seceding from the Universe a day at a time.
One day you will be one with the universe. Until then, you're on your own.
GO CATALONIA!
powerhouse of the Italian economy
Talking about Venice trying to secede from Italy? Venice should do it since the Italian labor participation rate is at 48-50%... Italians are lazy fucks... I mean they can be lazy if they want... but live with the consequences...
I believe money talks. Catalona makes up for a huge majority of the spanish economy. Fuck you globalists!
Catalonia is 17% of spainish population, and holds about 20% of spanish economy.
If they get independence, Spain would be damaged hard, but Catalonia woud be economically DEAD.
Too many slept separatist forces in the EU for they to allow this stupid one to happen. And everyone knows this.
It's just a sad carnival to hide a politica disaster,
Nations have turned into massive corporations where the sum of the citizens' interests count for little and where the role of government is to steal from one section of the population to give to another, not for equality's sake but for the purpose of retaining and increasing their power over the populace whilst stripping it of its wealth, its initiative and its rights.
The partial break up of nations will actually invigorate the sum of all its parts.
but beware who are funding those movements
Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.
But...but....who will pay the taxes?!! Who will feed the FSA?! I mean the children....who will save our children!??
The only subject I have in common with the Nuland coterie.
FUCK THE EU.
and EU fuck you
the shit they most fear is starting to unwind due to their sociopath tendencies which lie at the heart of their grand evil scheme....
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS...
free urselves Catalonians...
I don't know KS. They can't be this stupid. They just can't be this incompetent. But it sure does look that way.
blowback...
the smartest sociopath rarely considers the "effect" aspect of causation becuase as sociopaths their only focus is their twisted agenda...
"...this is being ignored by the Catalan government - a region seen as the powerhouse of the Italian economy..."
Obviously somebody moved Catalonia to Italy when we weren't looking.
On Scotland independence: The only way this would happen is if the whole UK was included in the vote, which curiously has been excluded. You have to wonder why Alex Salmond ever agreed for it to be a Scotland-only vote and why there has not been a single complaint about it within England.
Are the English not entitled to vote on whether they want to continue funding Scottish lifestyles thru welfare??
Scotland would be independant tomorrow if it was up to me. There is big support for getting rid of them. All the Scots want is for the rest of the UK to say 'please don't go'
It speaks volumes that this is not happening.
If Scotland votes for so-called "independence", the following will be unchanged:
* Financial system controlled by the cartel - check
* EU member - check
* NATO member - check
* US nuclear submarines on their shores - check
* Elizabeth Windsor head of state - check
* State institutions awash with masons - check
It's a referendum on re-labelling, not independence.
there is a lot to be said about it,, I seceded 15 years ago forming an independant state of one. ME
no taxes no visas , no rules, no regulations except what I say ,, Summit meetings are held in my bedroom. There is only one other allowed to add their tuppence worth, and she cooks my dinner
No muslims unless you drink and dont wail catholics ok but keep your mouth shut and dont screw aroud with the kids, arabs never, black and with a good attitude is ok but dont even try if you from some hellhole in africa, I hev some standards, fags, ok but sleep with anyone under twenty if you are over 30 and you are gone for good, liberal or leftie same as catholics, keep your mouth shut and you pay for the drinks, politician or bureacrat , dont waste time applying because swollen bollox can be extremely painful, anything else ..
Oh yes absolutely no fucking way kenyan monkeys get into my country .
Even if they can blow the fucking pope as a party trick
They'll use blood to bring them back just like Abe Lincoln.
No need to. This is such a stupid dumb idea that Spanish government can do lierally NOTHING.
Even if that mad local leader declares unilateral independence, next mornig everyone would go to everydays' work ,pay the bills to the same companies as always, watch the same TV channel, and drive to Zaragoza (out of Catalonia) for the weekend. If there's some noise in the streets, heard them as every sunday's soccer drunk crowd, that's all.
The point is: As long as NORMAL PEOPLE can make their normal lives, you can say all the bullshit you want to. All violations of law will be prosecuted as normally.
Don't forget they're just 30%, and most of them too young to see they're being hearded to disaster.
Who knows, police action may be taken by Madrid in Catalonia to prevent the referendun going ahead.
Also, whilst I support smaller decentralised states replacing the ever larger ones we now see (eg the EU), whereas Crimea had a place to go when it broke away from Ukraine, this would not be the case for Catalonia or Venice. Could they establish themselves and survive as independent countries?
They say they can leave Spain leaving all debt back... and suddenly became a new Switzerland or Luxemburg.. LOL
But they would be Armenia in a few months, and they KNOW it.
It's just a carnival to hide a political disaster.
Old hearding manual.
If they keep denying the right to independence, then the people of the region will conclude that they are under occupation. Resistance and armed resistance is just around the corner in this case.
follow the money that funds the independence and you would not be surprise who they are.
Armed resistance..... lol
New stimulus package: the Catalonia wall.
Ha, while the original stock of European DNA fights to get out of that multicultural shit hole called the EU, the ruling class of Cultural Marxist who are intent of breeding that original stock out of existence, keeps throwing up legal prison bars to keep them in. Think biology here. The DNA of the original stock is repelled by these 3rd world monsters flooding Europe and the Cultural Marxist are like the evil scientist trapping them, so the 3rd world monsters can eat them. Self determination to live amongst your kind if you so wish, and self determination to create your own Governing System if so desired. Isn't that what freedom is? Or is freedom just what the Govt says it is?
Certainly, Spain divided in various part is the best way to defends their interests in EU with more votes. Pity, Germany and France didnt thought that out. Germany should have divide herself in two part to have more votes in EU, too.
everyone thinks chaos just 'happens' to be breaking out around the periphery and that these 'referendums' may well be the splintering of europe.
this is absurd.
brussels NEEDS crisis in the periphery to create a more perfect union. they will be behind or infront of generating and planning and controlling the natural forces being unleashed by national and intra-national insolvency.
to the extent they are unwilling to dissolve the euro in burssels , they must be planning to strengthen it---but diverting more power to brussels.
this can only be achieved by guiding the political splintering of the periphery. like ukraine---the 'revolutions' in the periphery will be subject to influence by the power centers of europe. berlin, paris and brussels.
the devasation of the tax base in the pigs will be harnessed and supported by brussels so long as loyalty and allegience is given to brussels over central national capitals.
when venice denounced taxation payments to rome, they reaffirmed their allegiance and vat payments to brussels.
if you want 'out' you have to 'buy in' to the new narrative of federalization by brussels.
if you don't and you still want out, you will be severely punished by the new pan-european armies being organized in brussels.
the 'golden dawn' will be fighting against the pan european armies, . the best hope for euro-skeptics is they band together. brussels knows this, and will not allow communicst parties like syriza to provide material support to die hard nationalists. syriza will get compromised because in the end their euro-skeptic core will be lead away from supporting ultranationalism.
the euroskeptic communicsts will be forced by hook or crook to support pan-europe brussels . the nationalists will be demonized as enemies of the state.
the reward-----carrots of money and lower taxes at every step of cooperation.
when brussels can sancation venice stopping to pay taxes to rome. rome is dead. the same shall happen with catalonia. they will eventually get support from brussels when they cut a secret deal . it's a win win-----madrid loses , federalization commences forward.
they can do whatever they want until they try to cut off federal taX parasites and protect their borders from hostile alien invasion and debt appropriation, they will get executed by goons hired by German bankers.
OTHER PEOPLE own the EU's invasion rights, not the citizens of the EU, they're peasants subject to Brussels dictates, EU "rigths" are an empty promise, the EU is a fascist debtors prison for life with no exit.
PS the Muslim-African-Asian invasion has just begun, a billion more are coming.
balkanization is total nonsense. who wrote this trash? balkanization can only either benefit existing centralized power strucutres (eu and corporate nations) at the expense of other centralized power structures ( existing national governments of europe) .
or it can lead to a winner take all war.
china knows this all to well. it's also why lincoln fought the war of northern aggresssion. and was historically justified in his aggression. because the u.s. is now stronger than it otherwise would have been had it balkanized.
there is no right or wrong. there is no 'bettter for the citizens'. and to suggest balkanization is better for citizens is either to be a moron, or to be deceitfully propogandizing in favor fo those centralized forces or personalities that seek to benefit from the ensuing power shift.
citizens are just slaves. that is all. sure , go ahead , enjoy the dream that 'free states' will just offer the race to the bottom best offer to citizens as they do to corporations.
nonsense. any free state that doesn't embrace pro-commercial law and order facism will be conquered be subject under the rules and banks of those that do, or they will be conquered outright.
if you don't believe me, please, study up on the european nato solution to the croatia serbia conflict. who did that benefit?
In what way is the "u.s. is now stronger than it otherwise would have been" and how do you know this?
Had Lincoln's war failed, there would probably be two or more nations competing economically in the territory that is now the US, though it is also possible they might have reunited under tougher controls over the federal government.
It is certainly less likely that all of them would have been beset by the "affirmative action" racism policies that have blighted the US, or have the same mix of leftists as have dominated the US for many decades, or the same privatised Fed as now exists.
Nor would any of them have the same proclivity to international adventurism as the US government has displayed for many decades.
In all likelihood, one or more of those countries would be producing a far higher economic conditions for their citizens and a better quality of life.
Andorra wants to join Catalonia just so then they can have a separatist movement too.
It's the new fashion accessory.
“No one can unilaterally deprive the entire Spanish people of the right to decide on their future,”
Really? EU has already done that!
New Hampshire and Texas next !
Fuck the EU and fuck those corrupt and bankrupt banksters states.
Good luck to Catalonia!
It seems countries only have constitutions , so that governments can selectively invoke parts of them solely for political gain.
That's all they seem to be used for these days.
Good job, Cats.
Independence from the borg!
For the territories
Maybe a good time for the South (USA) to try again?
Another case of a government judging itself and finding nothing wrong.
Catalonia -----> italian region?
go back to study a bit of geography man