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As Its Neonazis Rage, Ukraine's Ousted President Calls For Regional Referendums

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While the US and its allies are locked in a war of words which Russia has so far been completely ignoring, things continue to move both literally (along the Russian side of Ukraine's eastern border) and metaphorically. Overnight, ousted President Viktor Yanukovych has called for a national referendum to determine each region's "status within Ukraine". As a reminder, the Kremlin still refuses to accept the current Ukraine government, claiming it got there only after an illegitimate, violent overthrow of Yanukovich. "As a president who is with you with all my thoughts and soul, I urge every sensible citizen of Ukraine: Don't give in to impostors! Demand a referendum on the status of each region within Ukraine."

In his first comments since Crimea voted to become part of Russia, Mr Yanukovych denounced fresh presidential elections planned for 25 May. BBC adds that at the same time Russia's defense minister, Sergei Shoigu, said that all Ukrainian service personnel loyal to Kiev have now left Crimea and all military installations there are under Russian control.

And while the Russian noose continues to tighten, first around East Ukraine, it almost appears as if developments in Kiev are doing their best to help out Putin. Perhaps Kiev took a little too much to heart the statement by Schauble that Ukraine has Greece as a role model to look up to, because while it has skipped the entire economic collapse phase (for now), it has jumped straight to the infighting with its ultra-nationalist, far-right "Right Sector" elements, which were certainly one of the main factors for the ascent of the current acting government and the overthrow of the last one.

FT adds that the ex-president’s call, reported by Russian media, came as members of a radical rightwing fringe group, Right Sector, staged a second protest outside Kiev’s parliament in little more than 12 hours. The reason: Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov has condemned the ultra-nationalist Right Sector, saying the group is bent on "destabilisation".

Right Sector activists blocked the parliament (Rada) building in Kiev on Thursday night and smashed windows. They blamed the interior minister for the killing of a Right Sector leader. From BBC:

At a parliament session on Friday, Mr Turchynov, called the Right Sector rally outside parliament "an attempt to destabilise the situation in Ukraine, in the very heart of Ukraine - Kiev. That is precisely the task that the Russian Federation's political leadership is giving to its special services".

 

Right Sector activists are furious over the death of Oleksandr Muzychko, better known as Sashko Bily, one of their leaders. The interior ministry said he died on Monday night in a shoot-out with police in a cafe in Rivne in western Ukraine.

 

A member of the far-right group in Rivne threatened revenge for the killing of Mr Muzychko.

 

"We will avenge ourselves on [Interior Minister] Arsen Avakov for the death of our brother. The shooting of Sashko Bily is a contract killing ordered by the minister," Right Sector member Roman Koval was quoted as saying by the Ukrayinska Pravda website.

Keep track of the internal strife as the Right Sector played a prominent role in the Kiev protests - and the clashes with police - which led to the removal of Mr Yanukovych from power. Its main support base is in western Ukraine. Should the government escalate its relations with the "Right Sector" the new government may be overthrown just as fast as its predecessor.

It has gotten so bad that Ukraine security officials, taking another page of the Greek playbook, are actively considering banning the "Right Sector." RT reports:

Following a siege of Kiev parliament building by the Right Sector nationalists, Ukraine’s security officials have discussed banning the movement during an urgent security meeting, a source in Batkivshchina party told Ria. According to the source, the meeting was attended by the acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, National Security and Defense Council chief Andrey Parubiy, as well as Oleg Tyagnibok, the leader of nationalist Svoboda party.

 

During the meeting, Avakov suggested a complete ban of the organization given the radicalization of the Right Sector, the source said.

 

Parubiy was allegedly supportive of the idea of dismantling the neo-Nazi movement and said such a move would allow those present at the meeting to whitewash themselves of having any connections to the radicals, the source said. Tyagnibok reportedly did not take any sides.

 

According to the source, the proposal will be further discussed on Friday “within a wider circle.”

 

Meanwhile on Friday, Verkhovna Rada is also expected to hold an emergency session to discuss the possibility of Avakov’s resignation, after hundreds of Ukrainian nationalists gathered outside the parliament building threatening to storm it unless Avakov takes personal responsibility for the killing of one of their leaders and resigns.

 

The right-wing militant leader Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bilyi, was killed in a police raid against his gang in Rovno, western Ukraine.

It is here that Russia may suddenly have found an unwilling "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" ally. It perhaps explains why Russia was just cited as escalating the war of words yet again. Via Reuters:

  • SENIOR RUSSIAN SECURITY OFFICIAL TELLS PUTIN THERE HAS BEEN A SHARP INCREASE OF EXTERNAL THREATS TO RUSSIA FROM THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES - INTERFAX NEWS AGENCY
  • SECURITY OFFICIAL SAYS "LAWFUL DESIRE OF PEOPLES OF CRIMEA AND EASTERN UKRAINIAN REGIONS TO BE WITH RUSSIA IS CAUSING HYSTERIA IN THE UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES" - INTERFAX
  • SECURITY OFFICIAL SAYS WESTERN NATIONS SEEKING TO WEAKEN RUSSIAN INFLUENCE IN A VITALLY IMPORTANT REGION, RUSSIA TAKING "OFFENSIVE COUNTERINTELLIGENCE MEASURES" IN RESPONSE - INTERFAX

Last, and certainly least, there is Obama who said in a CBS interview that Russia "needs to move back the troops" from Ukraine border. Obama says Putin is “certainly misreading American foreign policy" adding that  “we have no interest in encircling Russia."

The problem is that Russia certainly has an interest in encircling Ukraine: "You’ve seen a range of troops massing along that border under the guise of military exercises,” Obama says "these are not what Russia would normally be doing."

Perhaps Obama should explain the whole "costs" thing again, because over a month in and Putin still hasn't quite understood it.

 

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Fri, 03/28/2014 - 07:58 | 4601911 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Obama can't allow self determination, he will have to send in the marines.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 07:59 | 4601915 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Freedom is contagious. We'll need to be vaccinated.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:03 | 4601921 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Send them John McCain, Lindsey Graham, John Kerry, John Boenher, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid.......for keeps.

 

Two birds with one stone.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:08 | 4601932 AssFire
AssFire's picture

They will need the Free Shit Brotherhood Fighters, but they could totally decimate that whole of the region.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:17 | 4601951 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"Russia "needs to move back the troops" from Ukraine border"

Ummm ... I'm guessing that these Russian troops of which he speaks are within Russia's own borders? Since when is that any of Obomber's business?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:18 | 4601955 Stackers
Stackers's picture

I still laugh everytime someone calls a National Socialist "very far right wing"

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:20 | 4601961 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Yeah....the word socialist is pretty much a dead giveaway.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:25 | 4601974 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

These Ukranian Nazis are indeed a threat, especially when they take their shirts off.

Reminds me of the Greek Nazis, parading around in their Suzuki Samurai (lifted suspension, of course) with their best costumes.  The ideology is just rampant.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:27 | 4601980 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Who can blame them for their nihilism? The Ukes are getting IMF'ed, good and hard.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:34 | 4601996 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

They are astroturf designed to elicit aghast-i-ty in the average Ukranian in order to make the inference that rational nationalism is morally equatable to nazism.  Then the IMF internationalizes the whole fuckin th8ng.  Putin knows this, and thus amasses forces at the border.  He is a wolf watching the coyote hunt game that it can't carry home.  

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:13 | 4602120 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Someone's divide and conquer strategy seems to be working brilliantly.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:48 | 4602237 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

It worked here, didn't it?  Paint the entire conservative spectrum as raaaacist, then swing the middle to your side.  Soccer moms loved Barry.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:51 | 4602053 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Walter Sobchak: Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:30 | 4602184 Freddie
Freddie's picture

At least they are fighting for something while Amerikans are just serfs taking it since they were duped into The Civil War by the banksters. 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:58 | 4602275 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

I read their gas, food, liquoir, etc prices will rise 15% to 30% to pay the IMF loan.

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 13:38 | 4603051 Fractal Parasite
Fractal Parasite's picture

It's official: household NatGas prices to rise 50% as per IMF diktat and EC subordination accord. Wages to be frozen and pensions to be cut. Yanu said he got driven out after he refused to sign.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 01:48 | 4604963 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

It was always clear, that as soon as the zionist regime is stabilized, that it will begin to destroy the Ukrainian national opposition.

Globalism is the natural enemy of souvereign and free nations.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:25 | 4601975 fx
fx's picture

Obummer: "we have no interest encircling Russia" - Yet, we have been doing it for years and continue to do so 24/7. What an utter prick and liar!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 13:42 | 4603066 Fractal Parasite
Fractal Parasite's picture

It's so true: "Never believe something is true until it is officially denied."

His unappreciated teleprompter speech the other day was full of denied truths.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 16:31 | 4603654 Flagit
Flagit's picture

"Never believe something is true until it is officially denied."

 

Damn you, single green arrow!!!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:29 | 4601979 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

They must keep the "right is bad" meme floating as they herd us towards holodomor and Mao style genocide.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:22 | 4601966 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

this just in:

us signs agreements with brics + iran; pledges commitment to these 'historical partners' in pursuing new alternatives for progress and unity, going forward

sorry, europe!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:12 | 4602115 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Optimist.  (Although, we are signing a new agreement with a company in Brazil with respect to pecan production...)

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:15 | 4602106 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

@Stackers and Get Zee:  National Socialists are not socialist at all, they are fascist and most definitely on the right.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:01 | 4602268 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

The public school indoctrination is strong in this one.

Left = State
Right = individuals aka freedom

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:18 | 4602342 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

Oversimplify much?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 11:22 | 4602595 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

I understand what you're saying, "ncdirtdigger," but the problem is that your definitions have only existed for about 20 years.  The power of the State has always been an integral part of Right ideology.  It's just been since the explosion of the Welfare State in the USA that the US Right has been opposed to "government."  Except they don't oppose the military (=State),  and they don't oppose militarized policing and prosecution, as long as it's directed against social elements they also oppose. 

The 1960s really screwed up American politics, to the point that we don't even have a vocabulary to discuss things.  The people opposing the war and the State were very much "Left."  Those supporting the war and opposing the "dirty hippies" were very much "Right."  Libertarians, however, are not necessarily "Right" in political terms.  Nor are the current Liberals running DC "Left" in any meaningful way.  People say the bailout of General Motors was "Nationalization," and that would be a "Leftist" action, but that's completely false.  Instead the US Treasury was privatized for the benefit of GM, and of course Wall Street.  It's the opposite of "Leftist." 

In academic terms, every major politician in America is "liberal" (note the small "l").  They all believe in the coercive power of the State in one way or another, and they believe the primary function of the State is to facilitate business.  The only real differences are between which constituencies a politician wants to butter up. "ObamaCare" is Left?  My ass.  It's a privatization of the Treasury for the benefit of the corporate medical and insurance interests.  Opening up Medicare to everybody might be "Left," depending on how it's done.  But after the ACA fiasco, I think only a Republican, with "Right" credentials, can do it, and I think such a politician will do it in a heartbeat and it will be extremely popular.  "Left" or "Right?"  The labels really don't work anymore.

Where it all gets murky is when Corporate interests gain control over the mechanism of the State, as we see in the US.  That's textbook Fascism, which is a Right concept, not Left.  Fascism adopts a lot of the terminology of Left ideology, because those on the lower rungs of the ladder tend to be a lot more Left than Right, once you strip out cultural loyalties and just look at the politics and finance of it.

It's all very confusing, and intentionally so.  I won't criticize other people's use of terminology, but I have to ask them what they think these words mean before we can talk productively, because in the US at least, these terms have become meaningless epithets for "Something I either like or dislike," and I need to know which is which.

So I appreciate your giving the definitions you want to use.  Otherwise I wouldn't understand what you're talking about.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 11:42 | 4602658 massornament
massornament's picture

Very well said... thanks.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 13:55 | 4603120 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Which is why I prefaced my definitions with the qualifier as to his public school indoctrination. The idea that the Nazis, and their brand of state/corporate blending is the opposite (L v R) of the Socialists brand of corporate/state blending is so laughable, that his response of 'simlify much?' literally had me laughing. Without a clear starting point from which to define terms we may as well be two colorblind men arguing over the shade of lipstick a hooker is wearing.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 15:18 | 4603406 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

You are conflating two different issues.

Political Ideology (-ism) with Economic Ideology (-ism).  These are distinctly different and have different mechanisms and outcomes on the system.

Corporate interests gain control over the mechanism of the State, as we see in the US.  That's textbook Fascism

Here is one example of a flaw in your logic.  You have inferred an Economic actor (Corporate Interests) has influence over a political outcome (Fascism).  Fascism is a political ideology driven by political/power actors in a society to garner support and control over the people by asserting the state (Statist) has primacy and ultimate control over everything.  The Corporate actor is only tying into that control to serve their own interests but they have no care how the system is run as long as they are tied in to benefit from it economically.  Corporations are powerful entities that will always (greedily) try to serve their interests but they will do it through the political power structure which has ultimate influence over people and the state.  They prey on the greed and self interest of the political actor that preys on the greed of the corporate.

There is a reason that our founders established a union with the people at its primacy with inalienable rights.  It is a natural check on the power of the political actors that will always try to gain power and control.  Where we have gone wrong in this country is that somewhere along the line we flipped that notion on its head.  And now most people would tell you that are rights are granted to us by the state.  Which is absolutely backwards of what was intended.  WE ARE THE ONES THAT BESTOW THE RIGHTS TO THE STATE TO DO THEY THINGS WE NEED AND GRANT THEM THE PRIVILEGED TO DO SO.  THE PEOPLE HAVE INALIENABLE RIGHTS THAT SHOULD NEVER BE RESTRICTED BY THE STATE.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 02:48 | 4604985 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Funny that nobody recognizes that Nationalsocialism is the symbiosis of left AND right. The unification of the divided folk into left and right.

 

How is that possible?

It is right, because it is not internationalistic, like the ideologies Marxism and Capitalism and Liberalism. It is national.

Left = international, all people equal, egalitaristic, Marxism.

Right = national, people are not equal, people are different, folks are different, races are different, nature doesn't know equality

 

But national also means, if taken seriously: to care for the own folk. This means i.e. to protect it's culture. For example against individual interests, that want to make money with pornography or other businesses, that exploit human weakness and destroy the folk's culture and traditional values.

Or to protect the resources of the folk against the international Money Masters.

 

If a father hates his children, he allows them everything. If he loves them, he guides them and protects them.

Therefore nationalism, if taken seriously, means solidarity with the others. This brings in the left, socialistic component.

For example protection of the worker from exploitation. Or minimum wages that a man can feed a family with children with 40 hours of work. Or protection from usury. Or protection of the folk's resources, like water.

BUT most people confuse true socialism, which is practized in every family, with international socialism, Marxism. The internationalists do everything to make people believe, that socialism was equal to Marxism and would only exist in international form.

But true socialism is NOT internationalistic. It can never be: because why do familys and communities exist and work? Because of IDENTIFICATION. And solidarity has a prerequisite: identification. The stronger the identification, the stronger the solidarity.

And true solcialism, the kind pratized in families and communities, not the perverted internationalist form of Marxism, it means, that rights are ALWAYS based on dutys! Children have to follow their parents. But on the other hand they are protected by them and they care for.

True socialism is never a one way. Marxism, is.

 

And since people do not understand this, the divide into left and right works so well, because for example right people HATE it, if they must support someone, who has not deserved to be supported. This becomes even worse in multicultural societies, where identification with the other does not exist and therefore solidarity is destroyed.

And left people HATE it, if others are excluded "only because of the color of their skin". But that a different race has a different perception of reality, has different emotions, feels and thinks different, has a different culture and that all communities are DESTROYED, if it's members are too different, this fact is unknown to them.

And therefore a natural group, which could build a natural, solidaric and peaceful community is torn apart into left and right.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:58 | 4602277 shermacman
shermacman's picture

Far right? NAZI is the German abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workers Party. Governmental control of business sounds like just another perversion of Socialism, Communism and Fascism. 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 02:32 | 4604993 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

No, the abbreviation is NSDAP. The correct abbreviation of Nationalsocialism is NS.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:19 | 4601956 Alex Zhyk
Alex Zhyk's picture

Quite so. And the borders are expanding.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:16 | 4601953 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Why, is there a complimentary all-you-can-eat buffet?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:13 | 4601939 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

Don't forget to send the Dipshit in Chief..... anybody stupid enough to utter the following needs to be removed from the local gene pool..... and judging from this crowd it looks like he might actually represent an improvement for them..... just sayin..

 

"Moreover, Russia has pointed to America's decision to go into Iraq as an example of Western hypocrisy. Now, it is true that the Iraq War was a subject of vigorous debate not just around the world, but in the United States as well. I participated in that debate and I opposed our military intervention there. But even in Iraq, America sought to work within the international system. We did not claim or annex Iraq's territory. We did not grab its resources for our own gain. Instead, we ended our war and left Iraq to its people and a fully sovereign Iraqi state that could make decisions about its own future."

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:20 | 4601959 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ Rakshas,

Actually, he needs to be held in front of a firing squad but even that is too kind.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:44 | 4602036 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Schmuck is given all the intelligence in the world but is too stupid to understand what it means.  OR, he's in on it.  And that would be my guess.  He has dreams from his father to destroy the imperialists (us) and what better place to hold with which to do it:  POTUS.  He and Vlad are comrades.  We have been usurped.  Impeach this MF'er before it really is too late.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:03 | 4602086 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

......problem is he or his handlers have thought of the obvious avenues of disposition..... take out Obumbler, Biden take over.... frying pan meet fire then if he's taken out ........ see the dilemma ......... it gets worse as you go down the pile........ how many layers to get down to the White House Janitor?? couldn't be any worse than this toilet-brush-in-a-suit that sits in the oval office now...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:26 | 4601976 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

RE: Send them John McCain, Lindsey Graham, John Kerry, John Boenher, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid.......for keeps.

Didn't Putin sanction every one of them, and block them travelling to Russia?  I wonder why....

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:06 | 4601927 smlbizman
Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:08 | 4601933 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

you start wearing a black hood, tatoo  yourself with a swastica and suddenly you're a nazi...

go fish...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:06 | 4602301 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

But the guy on the left appears to be wearing a shirt that says, "I am Russian."  Maybe his brown shirt was at the dry cleaners...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 16:03 | 4603564 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

I bet every one of those young lads owns a corporaton.

/s

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:09 | 4602108 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Ukraine - is bankrupt and the bomb for the U.S. economy.
Washington will not change "Russian thinking" most of the population of Ukraine.
If it failed to do over the last 100 years, why it will be possible in the next 10, 20 or 100 years?

Ukraine is the largest geo-strategic defeat of the United States and throughout the American ideology. In Ukraine, Washington fell into the trap set by Putin.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 07:59 | 4601914 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

People determine their borders and aliances, not the other way around...

 

Let's see if we really have peak hypocrisy or not?  Does the western world really believe in "self-determinatio" or not....

Tick tock motherfuckers...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:08 | 4601931 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Obama says Putin is “certainly misreading American foreign policy" adding that  “we have no interest in encircling Russia."

ROFLOL

Oblamer missed his true calling... stand up comedian.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:12 | 4601936 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Ahem, Our Nobel Prize winning mulatto in the Bath, uhh White House will certainly convene a blue ribbon panel of the best and brightest Ivy Leaguers to confirm to the sycophant media his magnificence. It is not necessary that he take any harsh measures like tweeting or un-friending anyone when- by the crease in his slacks, it is obvious he has the most comprehensive foreign policy since Jefferson. 

Now excuse me, I need to take a shower.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:21 | 4601965 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

George Washington had it right... Here is a portion of his farewell address

"Washington goes on to urge the American people to take advantage of their isolated position in the world, and avoid attachments and entanglements in foreign affairs, especially those of Europe, which he argues have little or nothing to do with the interests of America. He argues that it makes no sense for the American people to wage war on European soil when their isolated position and unity will allow them to remain neutral and focus on their own affairs. As a result, Washington argues that the country should avoid permanent alliance with all foreign nations, although temporary alliances during times of extreme danger may be necessary, but does say that current treaties should be honored although not extended. (Despite his claim that current alliances should be honored, Washington had in fact through the Proclamation of Neutrality not honored the Treaty of Alliance, which promised aid in case the French were ever attacked by the British.)

Washington wraps up his foreign policy stance by advocating free trade with all nations arguing that trade links should be established naturally and the role of the government should be limited to insuring stable trade, defending the rights of American merchants, and any provisions necessary to insure that the government is able to insure the conventional rules of trade."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell_Address

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:45 | 4602041 earnulf
earnulf's picture

Washington addressed a world much different from today.   Isolationism almost allowed Hitler to consumate his rise to power.    Had the US not been "trading" with GB, chances are that a large part of the world would be speaking German today.   Roosevelt went against those Isolationists with the Lend-Lease act.

Today, we can no longer "avoid attachments and entaglements in foreign affairs" as the world is one big interconnected meme.   From the digital to the commodity, we buy our paper from S. America, our medical from Mexico, electronics from Asia and our luxury goods from Europe.    We sell commodities to the world and actually export LNG to China.   We can no more "avoid attachments and entanglements" than we can breath.

To effect support for our merchants abroad, we must be involved in the affairs of the world.   However steps have been taken that are less than honorable and have backfired more often than helped.   Calling for peace while arming insurgents gives ample opportunity for our competitors to say "told ya so".

There are those who want things to go back to the way they were, but they can't agree on how far back to go or what the "best of times" are.   Were they the 80"s?    The 50"s?    The 20's?   Or some idealic age further back?     Point is, we are headed towards the future, like it or not, kicking and screaming in our race for the 22nd century.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:18 | 4602141 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

I take it you were not a Ron Paul supporter.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:22 | 4602158 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Bullshit. Russia beat the Nazis not the US. Look at the casuality reports and read the testimony of the airborne who fought on the western front.

The US went in and mopped up and became western Europe's surrogate father through NATO. A clearly sick relationship still proven today.

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 12:15 | 4603109 gallistic
gallistic's picture

The farewell speech is a true American (US type) trope that is waved about, full of sound and fury.

Know your history.

Although it is held in reverence and holds a quasi-religious place in the American (US type) myth, it is a bromide of platitudes that were not even written by him, designed to bring about his apotheosis. They reflect the consensus liberal thought of his day.

The speech itself was crafted by two better men than Washington and was years in the making. Alexander Hamilton was the author of the final version of the "farewell speech". It was based on a previous draft written for him by James Madison and it was years in the making.  In his will, Washington directed that all his correspondence be burned upon his death, but portions relating to this particular speech survived and are readily available. They are very illuminating.

George Washington could not write well, think well, speak well, or even lead armies well. He had no strategic or tactical sense. Interestingly, this lack of ability was reinterpreted as a "Fabian strategy" for posterity and hailed as genius.

Lafayette set the conditions for him, by cornering the British Army and fixing them. Rochambeau and his larger French Army directed everything at Yorktown, not to mention that the De Grasse's French fleet had destroyed the English fleet and its reinforcements, and was actively bringing in men and war materiel for the final victory. Yet, by popular account, one could believe that Washington single-handedly won the war.

This is a man who painstakingly re-wrote his original diaries of his disastrous exploits in the French and Indian war to promote a self-myth. He was an aristocrat and a vain figurehead politician for the revolution, the constitution, and the first government. In this capacity he was indispensable to the new republic, but his real contributions were meager, regardless of what the fairy tales say.

For a more accurate read on Washington you might want to consult Thomas Paine, who knew him well and wrote about it.

 

 

 

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:04 | 4601924 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

they are allready voting, so yeah i guess so joe

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:08 | 4601930 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

11 million illegal aliens should be given the Congressional Medal of Honor. Can we get someone on that?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:09 | 4601935 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Thanks U.S. and E.U for creating this mess !

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:09 | 4601937 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The biggest nazi state in the world right now is America. No question about it.

I'm going to canada this summer and my biggest fear is passing through New York...

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:13 | 4601943 Unstable Condition
Unstable Condition's picture

Good luck if you carry concealed.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:16 | 4601952 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Then go through Vermont cause everybody carries concealed there.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:14 | 4601948 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh please.. Just grow a little "push broom" moustache,  give a few Nazi salutes along the way and blend in with them!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:34 | 4602001 Tabarnaque
Tabarnaque's picture

To Sudden Debt.

Don't hold your breath. Harper is the biggest Nazi in Canadian history. Canada is being destroyed at an accelerating pace.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:12 | 4601940 pigs-n-space
pigs-n-space's picture

You know as this whole phony game unravels, the whole globe is going to look like a Mad Max movie. Scares the crap out of me, not so much for me personally but for the ill prepared. But then again I dont think anyone can prepare for this shit? DUCK and COVER.......  

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:12 | 4601941 ross81
ross81's picture

The new IMF/banker regime in Kiev now has to dispense with the street thugs who put them into power in the first place. Pity the FSB hasnt a recording of US diplomats "suggesting" this course of action to Yats, Yulia and co. Anyway, i'm pretty sure these fellas will not accept being excluded from the spoils of war & having their leadership liquidated one by one. Long on buttered popcorn!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:39 | 4602023 Tabarnaque
Tabarnaque's picture

You are right. And we should not forget that they "stole" over 5000 AK 47 and other military hardware during the revolts. There's a huge crowd of armed nazis running loose out there. The West and its country loothing troika are in for an unpleasant surprise. Look for anarchy to soon come back. They key will be how the Ukrainian military react. Will they let the Nazis weaken the West back power enough before "restoring" order and imposing a new course of action? That remains to be seen.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:10 | 4602107 crazzziecanuck
crazzziecanuck's picture

They don't have to be told much of anything.  The whole point of Yatsuniuk is that he's a product from the educational puppy mill we call post-secondary education now.  The "education" system at that level is more about indoctrination and limiting mindsets, not freeing them.  Just look at your average MBA course.

The way some people viewed Nuland's comments in that phone conversation sort of telegraphed that.  They didn't want the far right crazy in because he's not likely easily controllable, Klitschko hasn't been properly conditioned to understand how the international system of finance and power works so he might be annoyingly independent, Saint Yulia can't be promoted to president because she's both crazy and corrupt, which really only left Yatsuniuk.  The perfect candidate.  Former central banker is surely reliable to come to the expected conclusions which fall into line with the Washington Consensus.  Yatsuniuk doesn't need to be ordered, he knows what's expected of him.  That's why Nuland and her merry band of misanthropes want.

What makes this whole situation with this new Kiev regime is the numbers of people and parties that REFUSED to participate in the coup.  I believe the Communists received about three times the votes as Svoboda and Klitschko's UDAR got more than Svoboda as well and neither wanted to touch this mess with a 40 foot pole.   Yatsuniuk *HAD* to get in bed with the Right Sektor and Svoboda because no one else would.  And from this, my hope is that Klitschko mops up in the next election.

The Americans broke the Ukraine but my worry is that the Russian solution might actually make things even worse.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:13 | 4601944 marriedgeordie
marriedgeordie's picture

FOR FUCK'S SAKE, TYLER, USING A PICTURE OF RUSSIAN NEO-NAZIES IN AN ARTICLE ABOUT UKRAINE. FUCKING IDIOT!!!!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:23 | 4601962 AssFire
AssFire's picture

You do know these are the very people (NW Ukrainians) the US and the EU are supporting right?

They are the sponges of free shit via taxes of the more prosperous SE region that is largely Russian.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:28 | 4601983 marriedgeordie
marriedgeordie's picture

Wow, dude, you need to check your sources of information! Looking at the central budget inflows and outflows, Eastern Ukraine is a net recipient. Their industry is on life support, has been for years now.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:36 | 4601995 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Uhhh,

 

 

  1. The coup was hijacked by violent, fascist, Neo-Nazi, anti-Russian extremists, who occupy many top posts in the US/EU-backed putsch government, including the Deputy Prime Minister.  Immediately upon securing power, the fascists commenced activities of intimidation and violence against anyone, primarily ethnic Russians, who opposed their illegal putsch government.

  2. These intimidated ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine naturally sought help from mother Russia, to the extent that many regions of Southern / Eastern Ukraine want to secede from Ukraine and re-join Russia.  Crimea has already done so, and more could follow.  Following historical Russian strategic imperatives, Russia does not want to own pro-Russian Eastern Ukraine.  The area is being forced upon them by this botched US-led coup.  Russia needs these pro-Russian Eastern Ukrainians to balance hostile, anti-Russian politics in a key buffer country on its border.  If Russia owns Eastern Ukraine, it now has a hostile, anti-Russian, impoverished country on its border, strongly influenced, if not run by fascists, some of whom are on its terrorist watch list and have threatened Russia with nuclear rearmament within 3-6 months…a major problem for Russia.  Russia does not want, or need to own the real estate.  They just need to control it with balanced politics which lean in their favour. This strategy defines modern American hegemonistic “imperialism”, and what much of the world is fighting against…including our “allies”.  Imperialism is alive and well…just in a different format…and the United States is the dominant global imperialist power today, by far, and it leads to our undoing.

  3. Follow the money:  Pro-EU Western Ukraine is impoverished.  Pro-Russia Southern / Eastern Ukraine is relatively wealthy.  If Southern / Eastern Ukraine secedes from Ukraine, the EU gets the rump end of the deal and will be morally obligated to financially support a failed dependency state ad infinitum, while Russia gains a relatively prosperous, financially independent region.  I.e. Germany will have to foot the bill for yet another unending failed state in the EU…hence Germany’s unexpectedly harsh rhetoric against Putin.  Ukraine (the EU) needs Southern / Eastern Ukraine to pay the taxes to support the Western Ukrainians.

  4. Follow the money:  Crimea’s successful referendum, with potentially others in Eastern Ukraine, pours gasoline onto the embers of copycat, highly destabilizing, global self-determination movements, primarily driven by relatively prosperous regions that want to secede from basket-case, debt-ridden central governments who have been taxing them excessively to support their relatively poor cousins, inevitably leading to ruin for all.  Within weeks of Crimea’s successful self-determination referendum, others worldwide have gained momentum.  Catalonia, the Basque, Venice, Scotland, et al.  Perhaps Texas and other US states in the future?  Who knows.  But a key problem with secessionist movements is that relatively prosperous taxation areas remove themselves from dependency areas, throwing the remaining central governments into financial ruin and social upheaval.  Perhaps this is why the West is so aggressive at the moment…not really so angry at Putin, but worried about the destabilizing precedent?  I believe this is an important consideration behind the faux Ukraine crisis / new Cold War with Russia, which obviously cannot be publicly disclosed.  If true, this position puts the US and EU in the hypocritical and awkward position of aggressively repressing self-determination, one of the key Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.

http://jackworthington.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/texas-crimea-catalan-and...

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:13 | 4602121 marriedgeordie
marriedgeordie's picture

I assume you read Russian, if you claim competence here. Here is the link for you:

http://www.obzor.lg.ua/news/naibolee-dotatsionnymi-regionami-ukrainy-priznany-kiev-donetskaya-i-luganskaya-oblasti

Some random blog you are posting here is as reliable a source as my link, I would say. I shall make another disclosure - I am Ukrainian, and I know WAY more about the matter than you do. On the points in your post above:

1, 2, and 4. Lies repeated by Russia Today and other Russian propaganda sources disguised as TV channels.

3. True, on average incomes in the Eastern part are higher, BUT the distribution is vastly different. Eastern cities are wealthier than Western cities in Ukraine, however villages in the Western Ukraine are much wealthier than villages in the Eastern part of the country.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:46 | 4602228 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I am genuinely curious and want to know the turth.  You stated in your earlier post, "Looking at the central budget inflows and outflows, Eastern Ukraine is a net recipient. Their industry is on life support, has been for years now."  Does this not directly contradict with your comment on the point 3?  If Eastern cities are wealthier, they must raise more taxes.  Even if Western villages are wealthier like you noted, fewer people live there.  So, their tax contributions must be smaller.  How can the eastern part be a net government fund recipient?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:55 | 4602261 AssFire
AssFire's picture

He has a PHD of Economics and can have many answers.

I am an engineer, so I can only have one answer based in fact.

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:01 | 4602287 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

Well.  He said he was Ukrainian.  So, I wanted to ask.  At least his question about the photo is valid.  The writing on the black shirt does seem to say "I Russian."

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:26 | 4602309 AssFire
AssFire's picture

It was sloppy to use that photo-it is a stock photo not from anything recent and it does apparently say I am Russian on one man.

But there is no denying the "Right Sector"  are anti-Russian and are based largely in Eastern Ukraine.

There is also no denying that the US and EU supported them until they were no longer useful.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:34 | 4602002 marriedgeordie
marriedgeordie's picture

Yeah, and that is why one of the dudes on the picture has "I am Russian" written on his shirt.... Dude, seriously, do not talk about things you have no clue about...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:10 | 4602027 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Or, maybe you should check your premise and your source? Regardless of the incorrect photo, The NeoNazis are in fact Ukranian.

An an econ ph.d. vs a 4yr ZH engineer is hardly a fair fight, so tap out.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:21 | 4602153 Blazed
Blazed's picture

Before Zee Nazis get here....The Nazi canard has been insanely overplayed, yet the Goyim continually fall for it. I suppose when the "history" narrrative over the last 70 years have been as accurate and fabricated as the current "History Channel", you would get somewhat brain washed.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:56 | 4602066 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

True, it reads "I am Russian" in Russian. It might well be a picture of Russian nazis in Ukraine. I'm sure there are such people. There are all kinds of people. The picture was probably taken at random from a quick google images search. In fact when I just tried looking up neo nazis ukraine this same picture came up as one of the first results.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:12 | 4602116 NoPantsSpongeBob
NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

This picture was taken in Ukraine, not Russia.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:19 | 4602142 marriedgeordie
marriedgeordie's picture

Care to provide a reliable link to this?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 12:21 | 4602760 NoPantsSpongeBob
NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

These guys are soccer fans. The picture was taken at a Ukrainian championship soccer game back in November 2013. The game was between Kharkov Metallist and Poltava Vorskla. Here's a link from a Ukrainian blog with the picture: http://glavnoe.ua/news/n153586

Proliferation of Neo-Nazi fans at soccer games in Ukraine caused FIFA to bar Ukrainian stadium from 2018 World Cup staging qualifiers. http://www.timesofisrael.com/fifa-upholds-ukraine-sanctions-for-nazi-salute/

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:32 | 4602190 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

The guy in the t-shirt is probably a mercenary from Academi (Black Water).

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:48 | 4602240 Tracerfan
Tracerfan's picture

One guy's tatoo does say he's Russian.  Another fact is that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis brought the current Kiev regime to power and largely control it through Svoboda, which you likely support.  Good luck trying to rein in your foot soliders.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:18 | 4601954 het2000
het2000's picture

There is no actual video of ousted President talking, so he aswell might be dead

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:21 | 4601963 standors
standors's picture

"Demand a referendum on the status of each region within Ukraine."
..... Putin was speaking by Yanukovych's mouth.

Putin started very dangerous game for their neighbours like Ukraina but this  game could turn against Russia and its friends ( like China )

Then the same right "Demand a referendum on the status of each region within Russia/China/..."  should be applied.
Applying this rule Russia may finally become smaller than at the present.

To Putin: you should provide the same rights to others as you demand for yourself!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:24 | 4601970 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

Interesting developments. The retards in the "government" in Kiev are already trying to purge their ranks of "unwanted" elements. If the Right Sector decides not to take the matters lying down, things could go south pretty soon and Vladimir Vladimirovich forced to protect Ukrainians by intervening militarily.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:24 | 4601971 smacker
smacker's picture

"Obama says Putin is “certainly misreading American foreign policy" adding that  “we have no interest in encircling Russia.""

 

Ahh So, I was 100% right all along. The issue at stake is whether the West (via NATO) is trying to encircle Russia.

Obama says not (he's lying), I say it has long been the intention.

That is one major reason why Putin moved to assimilate Crimea and may do the same to East Ukraine. Can anybody blame him?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:28 | 4601981 bkrolik
bkrolik's picture

well even if Putin assimilates those, Evil NATO would still "encircle" mother Russia! )))) To deal with that, Putin will have to assimilate NATO ))))))))

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:32 | 4601992 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the denial is confirmation that is exactly what they have been doing

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:43 | 4602033 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Never believe anything until its been officially denied.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:25 | 4601973 bkrolik
bkrolik's picture

Heh, dudes!

This is a picture of RUSSIAN NAZIES, not ukraininan!!!

Either you are trolling your readers, or your sources trolling you ))))

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:31 | 4601987 ross81
ross81's picture

True but theyre both very like minded in their dislike of Putin and their love of Hitler

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:20 | 4602147 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

who funds all of europes and neo nazi groups.

fucking soros

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:26 | 4601978 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

I'm not a fan of Putin on a good many issues although I do respect measured strength and a somewhat quiet cool in a world leader - though ya gotta admit it is very easy to look like a genius when the competition should have been contestants in the Special Olympics. 

PCR summarizes the Putin view rather well on his latest KWN interview, {Not pimpin' just saying'} the case he outlines has been mentioned before many times but it is well worth hearing again and spreading far and wide - for whatever you may think of Putin if these Western NAZIONSTS-Tards manage to get their beachhead in Ukraine with their fucked up ABM defence plan the rantings of Alex Jones will seem like a sesame street skit...... 

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/3/27_D...

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:33 | 4601993 fxchange
fxchange's picture

Barack Obama’s speech on Ukrainian crisis seems to have left the public confused as he claimed that Kosovo broke away from Serbia “after a referendum”. But attentive listeners quickly pointed Obama’s gaps in history – there was no referendum in Kosovo.

P.S. Tyler,  please change the picture.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:33 | 4601997 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

at least they're seemingly well-adjusted nazis

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:33 | 4601998 standors
standors's picture

Many are speaking here about US or EU triggering the movement in Ukraine.
I could believe in that trigger, but would 800 000 people in Kiev protest against Yanukovych because US agents? 

Surely NOT, these people wanted to say NO to  Yanukovych's policy of unprecedented corruption, abuse of power and Yanukovych's ignorant brake of EU integration process without questioning public opinion.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:23 | 4602360 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

The Kiev protests are an EXACT replay of the US instigated "Arab Spring" in Egypt - like watching Tahir Square all over again.

Getting people to show up at a protest is not equal to them wanting Nudelman-approved and picked neo-con dual citizen satraps to run the Ukraine and ship alls its gold out to Tel Aviv, any more so that the protests in Tahir Square meant that those who went to the rallies wanted the Moslem Brotherhood in power...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 15:58 | 4603486 gallistic
gallistic's picture

The powers behind the scenes provided demonstrators and agitators with many of the same EXACT materials and instructions used in Tahir square. It is pretty freaky seeing the same exact thing in arabic and ukranian.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-protests-carefully-orchestrated-the...

OTPOR bitchez!

Want to read some emails written by Vitali Klitschko to some of "his people" (handlers) in Europe? How about some UDAR party emails?

http://pastebin.com/td6dd4nX

Enjoy

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 11:59 | 4602711 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

800,000?......media dumb you down much?

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:39 | 4601999 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Ukraine is being torn apart by the murder of Musytchko and Timoschenko's threatened violence against the 8 million Russians in Ukraine.  Things will get a lot worse, there may be civil war, and the Western press will blame Putin and Russia:

Deputy Interior Minister Vladimir Yevdokimov stated that Musytchko, who was wanted for “malicious hooliganism and resisting state forces,” was killed during an exchange of shots with the police when he put up armed resistance to his arrest.

By contrast, Right Sector activists claim that their leader was in fact executed. They said that armed men arrived in two VW buses and forced Musytchko and five others to leave a cafe in Rivne. Behind the cafe, they made sure that Musytchko was not wearing a bulletproof vest and then killed him with two shots in the heart.

The Right Sector militants have sworn they will avenge themselves on Interior Minister Arsen Asakov.

And here is Timoschenko insulting and threatening Russians in the Ukraine:

It was necessary to seize arms and get rid of the Russians and their leaders, she declared, obviously referring to Vladimir Putin. She was “ready to hold a pistol and shoot the bastard in the brain.” Responding to the question of how the 8 million Russians on Ukrainian territory should be dealt with, she answered that they should “be targeted by nuclear weapons.”

Moreover, her discussion was full of obscene and insulting terms. She used the disparaging description “kazap” for Russians and peppered “the dialogue with all sorts of Russian swearwords, which are disingenuously translated with terms like ‘damned,’ ‘dirt’ and ‘Russian dogs’,” as Der Spiegel wrote.

Timoschenko subsequently confirmed the authenticity of the discussion on Twitter while declaring that her statement about the 8 million Russians had been passed on incorrectly.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/28/sect-m28.html


Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:39 | 4602016 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

two things

-----

the famous quote "The Flag is the last refuge of the scoundrel" should, imho, read: The Flag is often the last refuge of the scoundrel, and so sometimes referenda

then a referendum is a very blunt political instrument. Who poses the question? How is it formulated? Are observers allowed? Did a serene, serious and open discussion happen, before? Are voters allowed to change their minds, later?

a good example is how President Napoleon got his referendum that made him Emperor Napoleon III. did he choose to repeat the question every four or eight years? no

a one-way referendum is a completely different beast from a proper referendum

-----

"It has gotten so bad that Ukraine security officials, taking another page of the Greek playbook, are actively considering banning the "Right Sector.""

so what is Tyler's stance on this? our darling swastika-bearing european neo-nazis are, generally speaking, enemies of our constitutions

besides being enemies of all democratic systems, of liberalism in general, etc. etc.

and so in europe several parties are often forbidden. in the 28 sovereign nations that form the trade bloc called EU we have a total of more than 100 parties, and most times it's rule by coalition

and often a forbidden party has a friendly, sympathetic allowed wing that gathers seats in parliament

so what is it? is ZH against forbidding parties on principle? remember that we had Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and another half dozen of fascist dictators, not long time ago. make that experience and we might talk again about that

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:41 | 4602032 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

fascists are in total control of the usa and i don't see anyone banning those two parties

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:54 | 4602051 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

buzzsaw, you have an antique electoral system. unchanged since the 18th Century. With a "Winner takes all" principle that was immediately followed up by a "Spoils System" that still lives on - up to the way Coca Cola or Pepsi is chosen for federal building vendor machines. of course banning parties in the US  is totally non-sensical

yet may I remember you that we are in an European Affairs article? And may I remember that it's not my place to suggest how you should run the politics of your country

most of our countries have what is generally called a multi-party electoral system. our parties are way more under pressure to perform or die. and we sometimes ban parties. and we have sometimes referenda. yet all this has to be seen in context

Scotland is approaching a serious referendum. The Italian region of Veneto had a private poll, lately. Catalonia is somewhere in between, with Spain's courts saying it's inconstitutional

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:03 | 4602087 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

It doesn't matter how many parties one has the bankers still make all the decisions.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:13 | 4602117 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I beg to differ. BTW, note that bankers, in the EU, had their bonuses capped. A new EU regulation that is being applied everywhere... except in the City of London

this alone should explain or at least illustrate a lot about the EU vs the Eurozone (vs the AngloSphere)

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:03 | 4602089 css1971
css1971's picture

Scotland is approaching a serious referendum.

I think you overestimate the relevance.

Now if they were actually talking about which currency to use, or even to create their own, then that would be a different matter.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:15 | 4602110 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm talking about the quality of the referendum, not it's outcome. That is for the voters to decide

-----

? Scotland is debating about which currency to use. The options are:

1 - British Pound (though some officials and newspapers in England are saying they might not be allowed to)

2 - Scottish Pound (though some Scottish officials already see that our current Currency Wars mean it would have to find a peg)

3 - Even joining the EUR is debated (though they would have to apply and qualify, first)

4 - And some are even saying to do a "Montenegro" and just not have any national currency

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:20 | 4602150 smacker
smacker's picture

"Scotland is approaching a serious referendum."

 

Nope. It would only be "serious" IF the English were also allowed to vote and if Scotland was voting to become a fully independent country with its own currency, central bank etc etc.

None of this is on offer because the Scottish elites already know that Scotland is incapable at this time of becoming an independent nation, given countless years of sucking at the teet of Westminster.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:27 | 4602378 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the Westminster Parliament allowed it, remember? which is the same parliament that is promising a BriXit out of the EU by 2017... if Cameron is reelected

Your argument is spurious. If there had to be a vote in both Italy and Veneto, Veneto would never have a chance. If there had to be a vote in both Catalonia and Spain, Catalonia would never have a chance. And so on, and so on...

further, the question of currency and central bank or not is a sovereign one. ergo Scotland would have to become fully independent, first, and then answer it

Scottish elites, eh? Sucking at teet of Westminster, eh? oh, my...

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 11:50 | 4602621 smacker
smacker's picture

"the Westminster Parliament allowed it, remember?"

 

Yes I certainly do remember. Such is the state of the non-existent British Constitution that Westminster has "to allow" such a vote. Surely it is a matter for "the people". No??

I also remember that the exact terms of the Scottish referendum were debated at length in secret as Westminster was keen to EXCLUDE an English vote on the subject because they already knew that large numbers of us would vote in favour of Scotland leaving the United Kingdom and standing on its own feet. Precisely because WE know that Scotland lives off the Westminster teet.

The matter of its own currency and all the other institutions that make up an "independent" country are not on offer, so EVEN IF Salmond wins (which he will not), Scotland will NOT be an independent country.

And let us not forget the unelected slimeball Barroso has already interfered by saying that Scotland may not be able to remain a member of the EU if they vote for independence. Then of course there's numerous comments from George Osborne and the BoE Governor, all intended to scare the Scottish people.

 

Add: your reference to Venice and Catalonia is spurious because they are NOT currently separate nations in their own right, Scotland is.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:39 | 4602025 b_thunder
b_thunder's picture

ZH often provides coverage of credit markets that's worth reading.  On the other hand, the coverage of politics is, to say politely, nonsensical.

First, they quote completely discredited and 100% Kremlin-funded RT.com (not enough independed news sorces, eh?)  now they put a photo of Russian neo-nazis (t-shirt reads "I'm Russian") who are, by the way, the true power base of Putin regime, in the article about Uke's neo nazis. 

At least Ukraine is trying to deal with the neo-nazis, even though the Greeks would tell you that's not an easy task.  On the other hand, neo-nazis have a free reign in russia where they continuouse terrorize, beat up and murded anyone who doesn't look like a "russian" and are NEVER prosecuted - that's becasue their goals are identical with ones of the Pres. Putin:  a "great" Russia.   Meaning the shithole for it's people, but with unpredicatable ruler and thousands of nukes that the rest of the world is scared of.  As they should.

 

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 11:41 | 4602655 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

May I ask from what "independent news sources" you are getting information?

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:40 | 4602026 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

They love us for our freedom fries

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:45 | 4602040 Old Man River
Old Man River's picture

To hell with them fellas. Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 08:56 | 4602067 HughJanus
HughJanus's picture

With the appearance of several competing vested interests vying for control of the Ukraine to my mind this fresh installed administration could easily be overthrown as quickly as the one it replaced.

Wealth, power, natural resources will ensure it. Nationalism, boxers, Jewish Lithuanian ageing dolls and a pissed off populace who may feel they have been cheated after the violent demonstrations appear to have changed naught combined with a weak flip flopping administration is a potentially heady mix.

Reminds me of Dylan's rolling stone When you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:41 | 4602214 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

"I ain't gonna work on Christine's farm no more.
No, I ain't gonna work on Christine's farm no more.
Well, I try my best
To be just like I am,
But everybody wants you
To be just like them.
They sing while you slave and I just get bored.
I ain't gonna work on Christine's farm no more"

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 12:30 | 4602070 Martel
Martel's picture

<-- I want to live free

<-- I want to be annexed by Putin's Russia

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:07 | 4602105 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Just like the Mafia...

Hire some neo-nazis for some contract work and the next thing you know they're all on the payroll.

Wait until they take over and bust the joint out.

Ukraine is starting to look like a rust belt Union.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:10 | 4602112 Cult of Criminality
Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:11 | 4602113 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

In the immortal words of co-pilot Captain Robert Lewis of the Enola Gay "My God what have we done?"...

And how many countless other incidents like it over the past 69 years from military and intelligence officials who uttered the exact same words when they finally figured out the mission they lost control of!!!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:27 | 4602175 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

So far right-wing means dudes with pride and testosteone that are white. Ok....... I think I get it now.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:31 | 4602187 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

"...came as members of a radical rightwing fringe group..."

 

How are these nazis (stands for "national SOCIALISTS") right wing?  Right wing is conservatism, isn't it????

 

Left wing is socialism isn't it???  As in USSR - union of soviet SOCIALIST republics - isn't that what it stands for???

 

These fat socialist government knows best is what got us here - second fucking recession in 6 years and stagflation galore, including that fucking nazi in the white house - fuck you barry!!!!

 

FUCKING NAZI, FUCKING SOCIALISTS, FUCKING COMMUNISTS WITH THERE LAPDOG HATE MEDIA ARE ALL THE SAME MISERABLE FUCKING BUNCH!!!!!!

Orwell had it right.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:33 | 4602398 lolman
lolman's picture

Nazis are right-wing socialists

 

"Left-wing" implies Egalitarianism, which nazis lack

 

Notice that almost every ideology is Right-Wing by default, except communists and progressivism

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 12:50 | 4602864 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

Nazi = national socialist.

 

So there's a left wing socialist and a right wing socialist?????

 

I think it's more like the fact that SOCIALISTS are hiding the fact that NAZIs are SOCIALISTS by calling them right wing.

 

In response to you comment, I CALL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 14:55 | 4603337 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

"Nazi = national socialist."

Please to be corrected.

Nazi=NAtional ZIonist that pretends to be socialist, and wares many other masks to hide behind.

How many forget that the banksters create ALL these political sides and hone them like trained prize fighters. Owning both sides insures the sure win in the Hegelian Dialectic practices, and programs for the sheeple. They pit them (soetero&Putin) against each other to profit from the wars, and aftermath of laying countries to waste. Population reduction so they do not have to be fed, is a primary part of the wicked agenda. The world's common enemy is in the evil of the moneychangers that control and dominate everything, and almost every living soul on earth with the power of money. It is that simple. The evil of money that IS the root of all evil fuels the fires of hell, and the backdrops of these evil money masters.

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/money_masters.php

In these modern times, every soul has one thing in common. Life. Choose life, or death. It is an all or nothing kind of deal. No riding the middle of the teeter-totter any moar. Pick a side and stay with it, but remember the banksters want to kill us all off. They want to nuke the whole playground.

At this time in history, there seems to be no escape from the mass ignorance of this pure evil that is taking down the whole world. Even the dark stars have a desire to live in what ever world they can create for themselves. Suicide is not an intelligent choice, and blatant ignorance of that which is killing US ALL, is not intelligent either.

The common enemy of mankind are these things that are destroying and killing off everyone on the planet, little by little. As each side argues and tally-tits back and forth, the banksters laugh at them all knowing they are ALL on the slate for mass extinction. That attitude was reflected in the Ukrainian faker Hag's rant about nuking the 8 million Ukrainian people. She shall fall by her own words, as most of these puppets will.

God, please save us from all this moneymonger insanity and the horsepiss programs in the loony tune matrix of blabber mouth war hyping bantering puppets. Blah farking blah! Who profits in war? EVERYBODY KNOWS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h27HRNm_r4U

There is no middle ground people. One Way will triumph over another. Light and Love is greater, than hate and evil. Choose well. Embrace that till the end. Each has it's own eventual reward. THAT...is something every Soul on board will not escape.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 15:53 | 4603537 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

WTF???  nazi? national zionist??  ever looked up the work zionism??  you know, the movement of jews and jewish culture??

 

so the nazi's who support the movement of jews and jewish culture, according to you, murder about 6M of them

 

you fucking socialists are all the same - endless lying shitbags

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:42 | 4602218 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Oh Lordy, here we go.  My Ukranian friend, Sergey, will be here in half an hour to pick me to go see these trees he wants cut down.  But then he slipped in, "Also, we have carpet replacement job to look at."  I exclaimed "WHAT?  What do you mean a carpet replacement?  "How hard can this be to put a carpet?" he replied.  This is the guy that got whacked in the knee in Crimea three weeks ago or so.

I do not know the first thing about doing anything with carpet other then tearing it out.  Sergey said to me last night, "This is cash job to do on weekend."  Well, at least I'm sure I will get to hear a story or two.  OK, then, "I will go with you." I said.  I asked if he had bid the project already.  "No, we have this job, it is for friend."  It is more than likely that there will be more than one Ukranian involved here and he has already committed me to help.(thanks for asking first.LOL)  This ought to be interesting.  I have a real knack for getting myself in this sort of stuff.  It is not what you know but who you know.  If it pays cash I can deal with that.  I just want to hear what Sergey has to say more than anything.

I will advise of course.  We will just cut out the mainstream media.  In fact, we will just cut out all of the media and maybe some carpet and trees too.  Why fuck around?    

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:49 | 4602230 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Russia just issued it's ultimatum. Either allow the Ukrainian people to vote for succession - or Russia sends in the "peace keepers"

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 15:15 | 4603407 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

So ah, who did not see this coming?

Thanks for following your heart's intuition. It is our common leader.

Everybody can see it all now. Here goes the Russian "peace keepers" as forseen because the Russian nazi's are right on schedule after the planed whacking of the whacko to stir up the discontent of midnight for ample reasoning in the Russian tactics of taking back the Ukraine.

In the next act, the screaming soetero puppet will banter and eventually send the set up to die Marines. It is so sad so many of America's children will be sacrificed for the banksters glory, and profits. Heck, they do not care if say, 8 million or even a few billion souls are suddenly fried in the nuklear holocaust. It is all in the skunk-works, and so plain Jane to see. The stupid sick part of all this insanity is so many are actually trying to profit from death, and destruction. Wallah! It is only a fool that invests in their own death. The real truth is, they too will fall by their own hands. Live by the sword, die by the sword. That was well exemplified in the murdering of that fat nazi guy a few days ago. Was he even Ukrainian?

Karma. It is the Immutable Law of THIS universe. Otherwise known as the Law of Cause and Effect. Google that!

Actually, THIS LAW OF THE UNIVERSE IS THE LAW IN EVERY MATERIAL UNIVERSE, AND IN EVERY SPIRITUAL DIMENSIONAL LEVEL OF EXISTANCE. THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THIS FACT. ALL WILL PAY THE BRIDGE MAN EVENTUALLY TO CRIS-CROSS OVER.

Lay up your treasure where they will count up the most. Every breath and thought is known. You can take your spiritual richness that is kept in the bank of your heart with you through the eye of a needle, but you can NOT take any of the material ones at all. Embrace that which you value the most. Earn that Crown of Eternal Life.

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:27 | 4608787 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

The Law of Cause and Effect is indeed a useful tenant for the "unprogramming" of the "programmed".

If you insert Cause and Effect into their loop - sometimes they can escape.

Dare I say that sometimes I can use it to escape as well.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 09:49 | 4602244 smacker
smacker's picture

What we are seeing in the Russia -vs- West stand-off today is virtually a 21st century re-run of the beginning of the Cold War.

Most of us in the West were brainwashed to believe that the Cold War began when the Soviet Union attempted to expand its empire for the eventual takeover of Europe.

Some reading of history suggests otherwise. It was the West's attempt to encircle Russia that forced Moscow to create the "buffer states" of Eastern Europe to protect Mother Russia from invasion by the West. This of course allowed the West to say "we told you so, Russia is expanding its empire." When in fact it was a direct Russian response to aggressive actions being taken by the West.

Today, we have the phony unelected EU trying to drag Ukraine into its bankrupt club with full USG/UKG support. Crimea would have been a handsome catch had Putin allowed it. His naval bases there -- and access to the Black Sea -- would either have been forcibly closed down or surrounded by NATO forces, ready to pounce when the time was right. Neither option was attractive to Putin, so he took pre-emptive action to stop it.

And now -- once again -- we have talking heads in the West claiming that Putin is trying to re-create the old USSR.

What the mindless morons in the West fail to realise is that, today Putin has a lot more weapons in his toolbox. A decent relationship with China and fossil fuel supply to Ukraine and Western Europe plus plenty of raw materials. If they really piss him off, he could resort to turning off the taps or doing more deals with China.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 10:57 | 4602497 PatientZero
PatientZero's picture

But they're not Neo-nazis. Stop calling them that. They are 100% kosher and approved by the ADL and Israel. The cornerstone of being a Neo-Nazi is anti-semitism. These guys are just willing participants in the Grand Bar Mitzvah that is the Ukrainian Crisis.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114
http://www.jpost.com/International/In-Kiev-an-Israeli-army-vet-led-a -s treet-fighting-unit-343891
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abraham-h-foxman/in-ukraine-new-govern me nt_b_4875833.html

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 12:49 | 4602862 smacker
smacker's picture

Fair comment.

A lot of people use the term "Nazi" when they actually mean "Fascist". Nazis eventually became an oddball "fork" of Fascism since they aimed their hatred against Jews and were the only Fascist fork to do that. By contrast, Mussolini was surrounded by a lot of Jewish advisors and in the US today, government has become overtly Fascist under Obama and GW Bush before that, yet the government, Wall Street and banking systems are heavily populated with Jews in powerful positions.

The explanation is simple: Jews have long had an attachment to Marxism and Fascism going back to the Russian Bolshevik Revolution.

The British Labour Party became a quasi-fascist government under Tony Blair who had excellent relations with a number of Jewish leaders and the current Labour Leader Ed Miliband is an Ashkenazi Jew who's immigrant father was an active peddler of Marxism.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 15:33 | 4603432 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

"But they're not Neo-nazis. Stop calling them that. They are 100% kosher and approved by the ADL and Israel. The cornerstone of being a Neo-Nazi is anti-semitism. These guys are just willing participants in the Grand Bar Mitzvah that is the Ukrainian Crisis."

Why does that make perfect sense, and resonate in the heart so well?

Our heart. The greatest truth detector of all. Use it well. Follow it always.

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 11:24 | 4602602 22winmag
22winmag's picture

RAAAAAAAAAAAYCISSSSSSSSSUUUUUMMMMMMMM!

 

Better get those hacks at the SPLC on the case!

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 13:07 | 4602908 AdmTirpitz
AdmTirpitz's picture

Replace all of Ukraine's flag with Russian-4500 Rubels

Change the names on all the military bases-9000 Rubels

Watching mom jeans cry pussy-PRICELESS

The cost Putin would have to bear for this

 

Fri, 03/28/2014 - 14:55 | 4603334 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

a vote or referendum is a fait accompli, Putin is there to protect the vote, not the street mob that DOESN'T WANT A VOTE, Putin is 10 steps ahead of the Kenyan who reads a script and waits for lines from foreign bankers.

Hopefully I wont be near the bankers when they get nuked, and make no mistake they will press the oil & gas looting until nuked, they have to, they're bankrupt and their power is derived from money. 

If the EU can't steal Russian oil and gas they go bankrupt and asset holders foreclose, the EU political establishment eats shit and may end up like Mussolini.

What would happen to your congressman if SS & medicare were eliminated and we got hit with 28% sustained inflation and mass immigration in the millions?

 

That's where our govt is taking us.  

 

 

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