China & Crimea: Ideals And Reality, Glory And Dreams

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Yang Hengjun via The Diplomat,

By abstaining on the UN vote on Crimea, China made a good choice. I wonder, is China the most frequent abstainer from UN Security Council votes? Earlier, when China’s international clout was lower, abstaining from voting was always interpreted as a sign of helplessness and a desire to avoid trouble. However, now that China has grown strong, the interpretation is different. Now it seems that China is showing its strength and its strategic independence through abstention votes. The policy of “hiding one’s strength and biding one’s time” is the same way—when China was weak, it was the only choice, but now that China is strong it becomes a conscious, free choice. In the international chess match, the same phrase now has a completely different meaning.

Today we often hear people shout that China should get rid of the policy of “hiding one’s strength and biding one’s time,” because they take Vladimir Putin as their spiritual teacher. They point out that Putin dares to “say no” to the West and to the whole world. In their eyes, “saying no” is the same as abandoning the “hiding and biding” policy. However, the foreign policy of a state should be based on national interests, national security and national stability, and more importantly on economic development and the improvement of people’s lives. Who is not able to “say no”? During a time when many Chinese people were starving to death, our whole nation kept “saying no” to the world. Even those countries who wanted to provide aid to us were rejected with a “no.” Was it really that great?

Why does Putin want to “say no”? It’s because the West has no respect for him. Whether or not Putin “says no” makes little difference on the international stage. His “no” has never brought any benefits to Russia, so why does he keep saying it? The answer is that Putin’s “saying no” to the West is directed at a Russian audience—he wants to use this to build up a tough-guy image for himself and arouse the nationalistic mood among the Russian people. Afterwards, he can ensure that he can remain the “elected president” for his entire life. This is Putin’s dream.

Since Putin took office in 2000, international oil prices have been soaring. Putin took advantage of his good luck and stylized himself as “Putin the Great” who restored Russia’s glory…

Diplomatic relations can be roughly categorized into realism (utilitarianism) and idealism (led by ideology and philosophy). Although realism has been dominant in modern times, idealism has seemingly been everywhere and nowhere. I can distinguish the diplomatic practices of China and U.S. in this way: U.S. is a realist with ideals, while China is a realistic idealist. The “realism” of each country is more or less the same, but the ideals are not. The U.S. adores liberty and democracy while China worships the idea of a socialist democracy with Chinese characteristics. Despite its ideals, the U.S. often makes compromises in its philosophy for practical benefits. And although China is relatively realist, it sometimes makes some concessions in its realism to prioritize principles such as the stability of the state and the leadership of the ruling party.  It’s because of such compromises and concessions by the U.S. and China that “new type great power relations” becomes possible.

Russia, however, is a realist through and through. Of course, you can’t blame Russia for this…

Nevertheless, realism is not easy. As we all know, realist foreign policy relies on the strength of a state. What kind of strength does Russia have? The money from selling oil may be barely enough to improve people’s livelihood and therefore ensure that Putin wins consecutive terms, but this is not enough to impress the international community. But Putin is smarter than anyone else. Without ideals, and without the power to pursue realist goals abroad, Putin wanted to have the people consider him as a hero, to believe that without Putin they would be bullied by foreigners. And the only way to do that was to stoke up nationalism by habitually opposing the West and always having the word “no” on his lips.

That is why Putin has never hesitated in saying “no” to the West, especially the U.S., whenever he could. Although internationally such opposition amounts to nothing, he has enjoyed an increasingly higher reputation among the “Russian people” who grew up under the Soviet Union. In today’s Russia, which rarely mentions freedom and democracy but also doesn’t dare to raise Soviet ideology, “Putin” has become the “ideology” and “ideal” of the state. At this time, Crimea is just like manna from heaven, a God-given opportunity to Putin.

Putin just has to take Crimea. Meanwhile, considering Russia’s national interests and security, annexing Crimea had a hundred benefits and no harms. The West’s choices are extremely limited. Putin will never be afraid of military intervention. The Soviet Union was defeated in a clash of ideology and wills, not in real battles. With this in mind, Putin would rather resort to arms than confront the U.S. in a battle of ideals and convictions.

The U.S. knows this, and won’t resort to the use of force. As for economic sanctions, oil is the mainstay of Russia’s economy and (because shale gas in the U.S. has not started mass production) Russia’s oil is irreplaceable. And in terms of trade restrictions, don’t forget about China. Without the involvement of China, the world’s second largest economy, a country that can manufacture anything except sophisticated weapons (which Russia, incidentally, does make), how can economic sanctions work?

The timing of Russia’s confrontation with the U.S. is good for China not only in terms of economy and military “benefits,” but even more so in the political dimension. The “new type great power relations” between China and the U.S. is just waiting for a final push—this confrontation from Putin could help the U.S. to become more realistic and more sober-minded. America, don’t spend all day thinking about “peaceful evolution” in Beijing—China is just a panda; your “enemy” is a polar bear.

Someone may say that China should take this chance to ally with Russia in confronting the United States. I say to these people, you can’t defeat the U.S, so what’s the use of wasting human resources, materials, and energy? And allying with Russia is even less appealing—there’s no need to, and taking a long-term view there are too many variables to consider. When Putin steps down or dies, Russia will change overnight—at that time, when the Russian people have lost “Putin the Great,” will they have any choice other than embracing liberty and democracy? However, China has options and thus doesn’t need to tie itself to any great power.

The problems in Crimea are complicated and there’s some truth to each side. If you really want to separate right from wrong, you’ll probably find that there’s not even a unified standard to determine “right” and “wrong.” According to the constitution of Ukraine, the referendum of Crimea is certainly unlawful. But just like the pursuit of liberty and democracy, national self-determination can supersede any national constitution. Otherwise, how did so many colonized and newly established nations achieve their independence? And how did the 15 unified republics of the Soviet Union vote to secede regardless of the constitution of Soviet Union?

The complexity of Crimea also comes from this: Putin’s merging with Crimea not only broke the pattern of international relations in the post-Cold War era, but also went against the main trend of history in the past 100 years. What main trend of history? As everyone knows, in the past 100 years, almost all the great empires have disintegrated (including China, as when Russia helped Outer Mongolia split off). These empires have broken up into smaller nations. This trend began with colonized areas one by one gaining independence, and continued up until the collapse of Soviet Union. Looking back over many years, Russia’s annexation of Crimea is the only case in which a great power acquired so a large piece of territory in an instant (of course, this does not include the large piece of land which was stolen from China’s hands by Russia in the past). Only the God who gave this manna to Russia knows what price Russia will pay for this in the future.

The best choice for China in the Crimea problem is to make no choice; the best stance for China is not to take sides. China needs a peaceful international environment. In the future, China should both develop with the U.S. a no-confrontation, no-conflict, win-win “new type great power relationship.” But China should also develop a “new type great power relationship” with Russia that is neutral, not an alliance. In addition, China should focus on developing multilateral relationships with Europe, the Americas, and Australia, while at the same time putting more efforts and investing more energy into improving relations with neighboring countries. If those major relationships are well managed, even if the world experiences more “Crimea incidents,” how could it have a big impact on China’s interests and dreams?

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laomei's picture

Problem with that being that Hong Kong is 100% reliant on the mainland for basically everything.  China also isn't the ukraine, China is more than capable of securing its lands and blowing the shit out of anyone who makes a concerted effort to destabilize the nation.  Those NED-funded "activists" would see HK lose any benefit it has, while in reality, it's a hell of a lot better than it was under the union jack boot of yesteryear.

Anusocracy's picture

Hong Kong is sitting pretty right where it is.

Ifigenia's picture

but the majority of HK people are chineses, arent they? so, for them it need only to choose between PRC or ROC.

Dr. Bonzo's picture

Ask a Hongkie if they're Chinese. Here ya go. Some subtle hints:

 

http://badcanto.wordpress.com/

Dr. Bonzo's picture

Problem with that being that before 1997 Hong kong got along just splendidly without the commies thank you very much.

Hong Kong [sic] also isn't the ukraine

The focus of the Sino-Russian glad-handing is the Russians "snatching back" an "errant" province a la Taiwan or some such, while in all the bombastic chestthumping the trivial matter of the referendum is conveniently overlooked. I know exactly what outcome such a referendum would have in Hong Kong.... and you do too. Hypocrite.

it's a hell of a lot better than it was under the union jack boot of yesteryear.

So that's your story? 3 million Chinese fled into the arms the Union jack boot between 50-90s? LMFAO. You have to be a dyed-in-the-wool murdering scumbag to believe that shit.

I can confidently state life in Hong Kong has become an anguishing grind compard to the pr-97 handover. Most Hong Kong people who fled here from the mainland ran from wholesale SLAUGHTER... their families, businesses, communities devastated by mindless savarge brutal Communist purges during the Cultural Revolution.

The mainland is systematically eradicating the language and culture of Hong Kong people, attacking its free press, determining its population policies while systemic corruption and fraud drive mainlanders to seek common consumer items in Hong Kong that they cannot trust on the mainalnd. This rabid frenzied wave of daytrippers is destroying comunities and putting an excessive burden on our infrastructure. The influx of filthy money being laundered into the property market is driving property prices well beyond the reach of the sandwich class and younger people here.

You think I'm making this shit up for my own amusement?

All statist murdering scumbags can rot in hell. And if you love them so much, you may rot in hell too.

Apostate2's picture

Thank you Dr Bonzo. Spot on.

Jack Burton's picture

How do you Take Crimea, when Crimea was never Ukrainian, it was gifted by a Ukrainan Communist to a soviet republic of Ukraine. The population is by and large Russian, and they voted to rejoin their over 200 years old motherland relationship. All the screaming and crying from the west is just about their losing the chance to base NATO's navies in Sevastopol and to put missile bases all over Crimea. Their rage knows no limits, because they thought their fascist army on the Miadan had won NATO the whole old Soviet Republic of Ukraine. If you had followed the news, you would have heard the Crimean Parliament say at the very beginning of the Midan coup that Crimea would never accept the illegal overthrow of the Kiev elected government. The Parliament went on to say they were securing their borders, would turn back any Miadan thugs trying to enter Crimea, and that should the west support a fascist coup in Kiev, Crimea would used armed force to secure it's borders and leave the Ukraine immideately the Coup leades took power. Then NATO declared the fascists as the legal government of Ukraine, Crimean Parliament began turning back the Right Sector thugs trying to enter Crimea, and said they would hold a vote to leave Ukraine and offer an option to join the old motherland. And the rest is history. What pisses America off is they already had the plans drawn up to base the USN in Sevastopol and the missile bases were already on the construction list at the Pentagon. Staging a coup, paying 5 billion to make it succeed, and then losing the big prize to some hard core Crimean nationalists just sent the US Neocon rulers in Washington off the deep end. All that money and their conquest slipped right through their fingers and worst yet, it was stolen from them by an open election! Poor neocons, I feel so sad for them. All our wasted tax money spent by them on their big plan to push NATO east and a few million Crimeans screwed the great Neocon war machine right up the ass! How pathetic. These same Neocons have been in Afghanistan for over a decade and Taliban rules most of the country. All the hundreds of billions of dollars and all the dead and wounded troops, and what is the result, absolutly nothing. Gee, Washington's Neocon warriors are some real fuck ups.

prains's picture

Jack, next time you're gonna lay out some heavy truth could you lead with a "spoiler alert": tag so i can make a cup of tea first and really enjoy some down home truthiness

 

thanks for that by the way

Boomberg's picture

Excellent. Don't forget about losing the war in Iraq at an estimated cost of a trillion dollars and thousands of dead. Yes, Iraq is lost and is now the prime staging area and home for al-Qaeda in the Middle East. Perhaps that is what the Neocons wanted anyway however. 

disabledvet's picture

mehhh, sometimes you get carried away with things...wanna try out all your fancy new toys, be Master Blaster for a spell.

"It's not the Presidency if it doesn't go to your head."

Just ask Cairo "boy have we got a hangover" Egypt.
First stop on the 2008 election express (?) and look how that turned out.

I think President Obama has a "you are now pathetic button" under his desk. still...he has a nice smile.

shovelhead's picture

Lost Iraq?

Do you see Saddam selling oil for Euros in Iraq?

Mission Accomplished.

For the time being...

JuliaS's picture

Hey, the money for the coup had to come from somewhere. Is that why the bankers started committing suicides all of the sudden?

messystateofaffairs's picture

What will really put a post up the Neocons ass is the awakening of about 20% of the US population. If more people turn off the MSM and educate themselves via the net the truth will become a mighty sword for freedom. Tell a friend.

unitwar's picture

I think you fail to understand the Neocons.  They are not interested in conquoring any country.  They want to create failed states that are no threat and make a shitload of money off the weapons and drugs trade.  They got exactly what they wanted in Afganistan.  They control the drug trade and have been able to sell weapons for 12 years!  People mistakenly think Iraq was to get oil.  No, Iraq was to take oil off the market and eliminate any potential threat to Isreal.  Oil before Iraq war: 20 bbl.  After: aroud 100.  Neocons eliminate a potential threat, create new terrorists to give them an excuse for more power and give the big boys the gift of high oil prices.  Saddam wasn't keeping his OPEC quota and was pissing OPEC off so they were happy.  The price of oil was way too low.  Crimea is a distraction for Russia so the Neocons can attack the real target, Syria, which must be taken out before the go after Iran.  It is just a matter of time.  Syria will be attacked and afterwards, Iran.  Fox News will say they are attacking Syria and Iran for freedom and to help them.  They both will be left devastated with ethnic infighting after the attacks and never allowed to have any kind of strong central state that could ever be any kind of threat to Isreal.  Just let them kill each other and sit back making money while the red necks in the US Army do their dirty work for them.  Those dumbasses really think they are fighting for freedom!  Just like the Al Queda in Syria.  Those dumbasses think they are fighting for Islam and they are really fighting for the Neocons!  The goals of the Neocons are not to win any war.  They want the wars to last forever.  There will never be any Marshall plan to rebuild any of the countries that are devestated.  They just tell the dumbasses in the US that they are fighting for freedom, helping the people and want to rebuild their country to sell the war.  Syria will never be one state again when they are through.  It will be split up between ethnic groups that will be distracted fighting each other for decades.  Whenever they get along for a while or stop fighting, a "terrorist" attack will happen that will get them going at each other again.  Syria will look just like Iraq.  So will Iran eventually.  The Neocons are just the group that the MIC in the US has outsourced this work to.   The MIC are using the Neocons objective of protecting Isreal to get them to keep the wars and money rolling in.  Just like in the Middle Ages when the kings outsourced tax collection to the Jews in Europe and the dumbass serfs blamed the Jews for it without thinking it was their kings that came up with the strategy.  The jews were just the ones knocking at the door and collecting the money.  The kings set the tax rates. Well the neocons are just the ones starting the wars, the MIC has the strategy of global domination.  The Neocons are just coming up with the tactics of how to start and keep the wars going.  Yes, the neocons are scum but the real culprits are the Anglo-American scum that want the New World Order.  When will the rednecks ever figure it out?  They have been using them for at least 500 years to fight their wars. Just read that book "Born Fighting" by Jim Webb to see how stupid my people are and how long they have been the unwhitting tools of the elite.  I must say, that guy Jim Webb is one of the biggest Morons ever.  Unless, he doesn't really beleve what he wrote and just did it for his Anglo elite masters because he thinks they let him in the group?  Then he is just a scumbag selling out his own people and not that stupid.

tony wilson's picture

he wants to use this to build up a tough-guy image for himself and arouse the nationalistic mood among the Russian people. Afterwards, he can ensure that he can remain the “elected president” for his entire life. This is Putin’s dream.

 

and

what is the problem with that you cockless chatham house gay wedding child adoptin faggot?

PUTIN FOREVER I SAY

and a kick in the teeth for the satanic  child rapists in london,israel and washington.

prains's picture

FYI: your meds still aren't working Tony

tony wilson's picture

this ex malaysian airline boeing plane in tel aviv is a little worrying not to mention the other one that was on diego garcia.

wake up

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ286Fpq7Fs

 

 

NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

Ha, I have seen so many "experts" state without a doubt what Putin thinks, what Putin dreams, what he fears and what he really knows deep inside. Where did all these people get their clairvoyant powers?

intotheblack's picture

I know, right? Nostalgic for the days when strategic anaysis wasn't so wretchedly personal.

shovelhead's picture

PUNDITRY FOR THE PROLETARIAT!

TEA LEAVES FOR THE MASSES!

messystateofaffairs's picture

I gave you a +1 on that Tony but have you considered anger management courses, preferably by Freudian trained Jewish analyst.

shovelhead's picture

and a bagel with a schmeer will help.

kurt's picture

Taste the Putintang!

So, Tony, your brother, Charlie got a war AND a movie. I think mom didn't like you best.

Sometimes I wonder if the more vociferous and incendiary writers here are like fishermen, patiently baiting hooks and playing out the lines. Once caught we hand the fish over to the power elite who then evicerate the fish looking for signs.

Like a pachinko machine, the steel balls fill in at the bottom categorized by: potential terrorist, supporter, fringe group, agitator, possible cutout, tool, fodder, death.

Because, seriously, no Minutemen will be born of Zerohedge when they've tooted their revolution song from a recliner at a computer. So how do we start our Dented Tin Horn Revolution?

A Lunatic's picture

Too many experts, not enough mind your own business.........

The_Prisoner's picture

The author faked his own kidnapping in 2011 to raise his profile as international man of mystery and sell spy novels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Hengjun

It would seem he's right at home writing for The Diplomat, driving the Zionist agenda under the guise of internationalism.

Tsukato's picture

This guy has all the hallmarks of a Chinese who got his phd in America. Born to a rich, corrupt, Chinese family, he spent many summers visiting New York, Disneyland, and Las Vegas. His biggest passion was his dream to go to an Ivy league school in America, and live the American dream, on his parents I'll gotten money. Never having to dabble in day to day reality, he is able to write horseshit articles like this, devoid of any understanding of the world, or dare I say, any foundation in reality. Fuck off cheng liang. Come back to china and write family dramas for CCTV. It's about your speed for originality (family is very strong but there are problems between the grown children that only mama can referee. But oh no! Mama has cancer and is dying! Mama will referee one final time, and permanently fix the family, making it stronger before she dies. Mama dies! Auuuggghhhh!!! Plenty of tears and gnashing of teeth, but the family is stronger, thanks to the parting advice of an ever wise, and party loyal, mama!). :(

kurt's picture

Tsukato looks like Moisha.

Could you please spew more vitriol?

Ifigenia's picture

"The timing of Russia’s confrontation with the U.S. is good for China not only in terms of economy and military “benefits,” but even more so in the political dimension."

The author dont know Vitoria Nulland jewish cookies in Maidan Square.

q99x2's picture

This writer should apply for a job at CNN.

disabledvet's picture

well...the 9:00 PM slot is opening up. I was thinking of me actually. And I would start by interviewing all of you.

And I'd have a tiki bar and those Honolulu girls who hand out those cool flower thingy's.

Plus free booze for the crowd.

there's be a set of bongo's "that that weird guy could just bang away." and we'd cover stories like "midget trannie porn: is it really worth it?" and "dwarf tossing. how dare the UN, I an economy like this no less."

we'd have hookers and pimps and various other street urchins. the band "the Scum of the Earth!" would be our regular accompaniment.

I also wish to thank Zero Judge for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of those lacking in morays and ideals en toto. we'd do a long running, hard hitting exposé called "Mixed Nuts. Certainly more than you can eat in a day."

HurricaneSeason's picture

No doubt he'd fit in at CNN.

I remember Putin stopping ww3 by preventing the high altitude bombing of Syria and Iran and making the Saudis and Israel quite angry.  Then they spend $5 billion to overthrow Ukraine and fuck the EU if they don't like the leaders the U.S. picks for the Ukraine.  A violent overthrow raiding arsenals and snipers shooting police and rioters.  All so they can take the bases in Crimea and put missiles on the Ukrainian/Russian border to weaken Russia so they can get back to the Syria Iran Bombings to please Israel and the Saudis.  As soon as its finally clear that the mission failed, Obama kicks the Syrian Embassy out of the U.S.

CNN's version: Russia is pissed off about the soviet breakup 25 years ago and will invade and steal a bankrupt country that doesn't pay their gas bills along with half of Europe. I think I know what the history books will say. If Putin can prevent world war 3 again and keep gasoline prices from tripling, good for him. "Putin the Great" vs Obama the Messiah.

Tsukato's picture

This guy should apply for a job sucking rich dick in Macao.

NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

This is probably the most delusional thing I have read so far here.

The Final Straw's picture

What about that century of Chinese hegemony? Better relations with neighbours. Right. Maybe mobile forced-abortion vans worldwide as well as mobile execution vans. The Chinese believe they are the master race, and deserve to rule over their lessers. I'd prefer a Russian boot stomping on my face for eternity, to the Chinese XXSmall boot.

ebworthen's picture

The abortion van is bought and paid for in the U.S.S.A., courtesy Obamacare.

That is one of the reasons I'm not paying for that shit.

Go Russia.

ebworthen's picture

We need a Myers-Briggs personality test for nations.

FredFlintstone's picture

Test for psychopathy not personality.

honestann's picture

ALL "nations" are controlled by predatory-authoritarians.  They utterly agree with each other on their primary goals: power over their population (and others), and egregious theft from their population (and others).  And, of course, to keep themselves and their collaborators (central banks) in power.  PERIOD.

Any difference in propaganda, sound-bites and style is purely historical.

And sadly, not even the sheeple-chimps (the slaves, "people", "citizens") in the fictitious western "nations" have even the slightest clue what "liberty" means any more.  Okay, maybe 0.001% do.

The ENTIRE modern "game" has NOTHING whatsoever to do with "the people" in any of the fictional "nations".  The predators-that-be have gained such utter, total, complete control of everything and [virtually] everyone that THEY are the whole game.

This is, of course, what they want --- unlimited POWER.

Of course, the only REAL limits on their power today are:

#1:  The resources of their economies.

#2:  Disputes with other predators.

EVERY predator-that-be wants to RULE THE PLANET.  Some predators (those in smaller "nations") understand that is hopeless for themselves.  Others (in USSA, China, Russia, maybe a few others) imagine they can achieve this goal in some moderate time frame.

The ONLY reason we do not have UNIFIED RULE today (sometimes called the new world order or NWO) is that the top-level predators-that-be who control nations (the predators who control the central banks and largest corporations) do not yet control (or have a firm, friendly understanding with) their counterparts in China or Russia.

This is well understood by ALL high level predators in EVERY "nation" (and "power block").  The western central banks constantly work towards their plan to enforce a stranglehold over ALL HUMAN BEINGS.  At the moment, it appears the predators-that-be in China and Russia are smart enough to realize that cooperating with the western predators-that-be will eventually lead them to have NO seat at the final table.  And so, they resist.

Good for them.  That gives the few honest, ethical, productive individuals remaining on this planet a little more time to get their butts OFF this planet and establish liberty and individualism in the only viable new frontier.  And make no mistake, given the virtually complete stranglehold on the minds of the vast majority of sheeple-chimps on this planet, a frontier is the only place liberty and individualism have a chance to survive.  Fortunately, due to the physical nature of outer space, outer space cannot be ruled by predators, so liberty and individualism can survive in outer space.  This is true because it costs far more to find and chase after producers in outer space than the predators could possibly extract from them.  The same dynamic does not work on earth, and so earth shall remain a slave planet indefinitely.

This is the substance.  All else is fluff, nonsense and irrelevancies.

itstippy's picture

The few remaining freedom lovers on this planet will band together, build a rocket ship, and launch themselves into outer space?  In the pursuit of liberty and individualism?

That's . . . interesting.

litemine's picture

I disagree.

It will be the Elite, on the rocketship (payed by the Blood Sweat and tears of others) to seek a new world because they Fucked this one up. They presently control puppets to do their bidding and control smother anyone who trys to speak up against them. The CIA/NSA/TSA as well a some Military leaders will do what ever it takes for personal gains.

honestann's picture

As things stand today, that is indeed the most likely scenario.

However, the fact that the predators-that-be in the USSA have so massively scaled back their space development projects implies their timeframe for building luxury space habitats for themselves to enjoy is... several decades away.

Those of us with plans for private endeavors in outer space must get there first.  Why?  Because by the time they are ready, everyone on earth will be so thoroughly monitored and enslaved, that private efforts will be difficult if not impossible.

The Chinese might be viable partners, but when it comes right down to it, before any private endeavor became viable, practical and imminent, they'd probably decide they too want no private, liberty, individualist habitats in outer space too.  Though... I'm not 100% sure they would care.  The goal of western predators-that-be is most definitely complete domination of every sentient being in the universe.  You may laugh, but I know.  Even their core terminology screams this out loud... "full spectrum dominance" being just one of them.  So forget collaboration with the western powers.  Not gonna happen unless they ultimately have control (which completely defeats the purpose).

honestann's picture

Reality is not a movie, and my message is not a simplistic B movie script.  First, a few fully private (non-government) efforts to escape the gravity well of earth and establish self-sufficient digs in outer space DO exist.  At least one fairly serious one existed as long as 30 years ago (called the L5 society), though it was not really "independent" of earth, it was "selling energy to earth".  So it really didn't solve the "liberty" problem, but might have made that step much easier to achieve if successful.

Each endeavor to get off earth has its own approach and its own practical difficulties and problems.  Some even have money, being personal projects of some "very rich and famous" folks like Branson and Theil.

Unfortunately, all existing endeavors that I know about have weaknesses, including the endeavor I am part of (though I suspect our endeavor has the best chance, for rather odd reasons).  At some point one would hope the various groups would join forces and collaborate on whatever is the most efficient and practical implementation.  At the moment the level of desparation is too low, and the various groups are too worried about being "the first", or they've fallen in love with "their approach", or one of the various reasons people refuse to collaborate effectively.  And, of course, some groups and endeavors are so far behind they don't really have anything to contribute that other endeavors don't already have.

So let me just say this.  I'm a realist.  And as such, I am very worried that the globalist predators-that-be will be able to implement a strangle-hold on space travel soon enough to prevent any independent endeavors in space from being possible.  However, we must carry on with our efforts.  We still DO have time.

Furthermore, we (speaking broadly here) have a couple wildcards up our sleeves in the form of blockbuster breakthrough game-changer technologies entirely in private hands that can potentially make one-way missions into outer space practical (as well as sufficiently advanced self-sufficient systems so these pioneers need zero additional resources from earth, and can thus be totally and permanently independent).

This is not a trivial project, especially for private folks.  Furthermore, it appears we (speaking broadly again) need to be able to design, implement and carry out these endeavors without commercial payback from earth-based operations (by supplying products back to earth).  Which means, whatever time, effort, money, talent and resources are invested in this effort... do not pay back financially.  Instead, the payback is a new place to live, and liberty.  All the predators-that-be on earth can play their games, and we will no longer play any part in them whatsoever.

Some very positive signs exist.  A couple private companies have successfully launched spacecraft into earth orbit [one of which docked with the international space station].  So... the basic ability for private entities to "get into space" is developing.  It is not cheap, but this endeavor cannot be done cheaply.  YET.

The fact is, known technology exists to greatly improve the efficiency of launching space-craft into orbit, as well as the manufacture of more efficient spacecraft to stay in orbit [and support human beings].  One example is graphene, which makes it possible to massively reduce spacecraft mass/weight (unfortunately not including the fuel).  But several large but incremental technological developments like graphene have happened and continue to happen.  Unfortunately, to develop design and manufacturing expertise with these new technologies is often an agonizingly slow and expensive process, especially for rather money-poor entities (because they don't have huge mass-market products feeding their operations).

The endeavor I'm working on may well be the one that "blows the doors off" this whole endeavor.  I hope so... though frankly I'd be happy to see other private collaborations solve as many of the existing problems as possible, and bring their costs down to practical levels.  The more success the better.  Hopefully at some point one of the endeavors will make some visible breakthrough or demonstrate some visible advance so impressive that everyone begs to join their effort, and hopefully they are willing to collaborate with other serious people who have been working towards this end.

We shall see.

One problem is... resources to finance these efforts are so limited.  For example, the endeavor I work on has zero external financial resources.  All money is contributed by the collaborators, almost all of whom are the scientists and engineers who are working on implementing our breakthrough technology.  It is difficult to fathom how much faster we could progress with modest additional revenue.  However, we are all painfully aware of "how this works".  We've seen endless other groups switch their focus to "raising their profile" in order to "raise more money"... and end up being little more than a fan club (for fans of their approach or technology).  We won't do that.  We spend 100% of our time implementing our technology, which is, without any doubt whatsoever, a blockbuster breakthrough game-changer technology.

So... that's my summary.  This CAN happen, and this WILL happen...

IF we get done before the predators-that-be get themselves in a position to prevent any independent entity from permanently leaving earth, and becoming self-sufficient.  The predators-that-be are indeed moving in that direction, and will definitely stop the establishment of independent settlements in outer space if they can.  Which means the clock is ticking...

PS:  Probably only 25% of the people involved in these projects openly admit their motive has anything to do with "liberty" or "individualism".  My guess is, probably the actual number is only slightly above 25%.  The remainder are "space nuts"... which I most certainly do not say with a derogatory tone --- I got hooked on astronomy and space-sciences when I was 4 years old, and remain interested today!  That just isn't the field that our breakthrough technology is directly within, though indirectly it probably advances the day when we can move into outer space by more than any other development.

I wish someone without scientific, engineering and technological skills but with an interest in liberty, individualism and "really seriously getting all the way out of dodge" (into self-sufficient habitats and spacecraft in outer space) would set up some kind of organization to front for those technical collaborations who could benefit.  The most viable of these collaborations are so focused upon their science, engineering and technologies, that they don't spend time trying to impress anyone, or get donations.

sangell's picture

I have no idea what the future holds for China or the US. Russia though has made some choices that ignore its real situation. Like Japan , it is in decline but unlike Japan it has no powerful friend to help it decline gracefully. Putin seems to have forgotten about the existential threat posed to all he holds dear by the recrudescent Islamism on his southern flank so he can try and refight the war the USSR lost. China looks out on a Pacific Ocean its main rival controls. From Vietnam to South Korea the US Navy is welcome while the Chinese Navy is not. Its cities lie but an hour or two away from US sea and air power while the American mainland lies years away from Chinese power. OTOH, it seems to produce more competent leadership than the US. I would suggest China's making mountains out of tiny ocean rocks is a big mistake. Bullying Vietnam and the Philippines over tiny, inconsequential islands is foolish. Did China forcing Taiwan from Quemoy and Matsu bend the people of Taiwan to Beijings will? Maybe the Chinese should read the fable of the sun and the wind where the wind bet the sun it could take the coat from a man walking down a road. The harder the wind blew the tighter the man clung to his coat. When the sun beamed down upon the man he relaxed and took his coat off.

AlaricBalth's picture

Liberty is not having to cover my smart phone camera when I want to share an intimate evening with someone. Liberty is being able to go to a political meeting without worrying about the IRS targeting me for an audit. Liberty is publicly protesting injustice without a pepper spray shower from "peace officers".

The dictionary says liberty is "the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views."

Technically, the government does not statutorily restrict us from protesting, attending meetings and other personal or public activities. However there are other ways to oppress behaviors and political views. Intimidation and fear of repercussion are effective modes of persuasion which are widely utilized by governments to mold or suppress certain activities which are not deemed in the best interest of the state. This allows the government to breech the spirit of the Constitution while abiding by the letter of it.

sangell's picture

Actually and realistically, the only thing that has changed is the cost of such data collection. Back when Barbara Boxer first ran for Congress ( after running for every other local elective office in Marin County) I took a friend of mine and introduced him to the dark side of politics. His job was to gather every license plate that went to her fundraiser with particular attention to those vehicles which bore state and county tags that said for 'official use only'.

There have never been any limitations on political intelligence gathering. Just who and how the intelligence is gathered. Prohibiting the government from gathering it does not limit the political parties that run the government from gathering it. Do you not think that 'American Patriots' in 1776 did not compile lists of where one stood on the issue of the British monarchy. Of course they did. That is why many loyalists had to leave after the victory at Yorktown by General Washington.

honestann's picture

The dictionary says liberty is, "the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views."

NO.  NO.  1000 * 1000 * NO.

If you accept that definition (promoted by the predators-that-be and their apologists), you accept 100% tyranny.

A definition closer to valid would be, "the state of being free from restrictions on one's life, behavior or property".

Liberty has NOTHING to do with "government" or "authority", because BOTH are fictions, and BOTH are inherently ANTI-LIBERTY.

Stop accepting the notion that "liberty" is a type of slavery.  The only possible legitimate meaning of liberty is FREEDOM from slavery... ALL forms of slavery, by ALL entities (including predators-DBA-government, predators-DBA-corporation, predators-DBA-NGOs, predators-DBA-banks, and every individual [human] predator).

To believe that the constitution has any legitimate impact on anyone is to accept that any pack of 2 or 3 dozen human predators can smear ink on paper, and somehow obligate and control millions if not billions of human beings who are NOT INVOLVED in their schemes, and in this specific case, even for hundreds [or thousands] of years after ALL the signators die.  Please, give us a break, and understand how completely flaming insane any such belief or assumption necessarily is.