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Janet Yellen Is Caught Between A Rock And A Hard Place

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via Monty Pelerin's World blog,

“Caught between a rock and a hard place” is a colloquialism meant to convey that there are either no options or at least no good options left. That describes quite nicely the position that Janet Yellen has been put into.

The US (and world) economy are not growing. Ben Bernanke and his counterparts in other countries pumped like mad to hide the dysfunction. Flooding with liquidity did nothing to heal the distortions and made them worse.

In his last meeting, Bernanke began to “taper.” Ms. Yellen came into this no-win situation, made worse by Bernanke’s parting shot. I suspect Bernanke was attempting to mitigate his role in the inevitable disaster that lies ahead. He will likely claim that the economy was doing fine when he left and that was why he began to reduce QE.

The implication Bernanke hopes to convey is that the economy was just hunky-dory when he departed. If this interpretation is correct, then Bernanke is truly a loathsome person. If, on the other hand, Bernanke truly believed that the economy was fine, then loathsome is an improper description. However, that brings “stupid” into play as it is just another in a long line of examples that suggest Bernanke had little to no understanding of what was happening.

Perhaps his most famous prediction was believing the housing market was fine prior to the crash. Silverunderground reported:

In January of 2007, Ben Bernanke said, “The housing market has looked a bit more solid, and the worst outcomes have been made less likely.” His view was that the fundamentals in housing were improving, thus reducing the risk of a crash.

The graphic below provides other examples (click image to enlarge):

There is no way to stop infusing liquidity into the economy without creating a massive recession/depression. The withdrawal process is much like that of a heroin addict. It is hell, but if you get through it, you will regain your health. Jim Sinclair explains:

The idea that stimulation, even if only in form but not reality, can be withdrawn without draconian economic results is simply false. Chair Yellen is truly dedicated to full employment and is going to go into shock over the next few short months at the divergence between her economic modeling, the behavioral economic projections and the degree of economic contraction in the US. She will revert to her long standing dovish viewpoint of the mandate of the Federal Reserve and move this hyper stimulation (4 trillion) into a higher gear than before.

Mr. Sinclair is correct in his conclusion. Whether his timing is correct will be known soon.

Bernanke, attempting to avoid historical comparisons to John Law, left Ms. Yellen holding this smelly bag. His exit does nothing to absolve himself from the blame. He and his predecessor Greenspan created the monster that will devour the economy. Regardless of whether Yellen is a hawk or dove, there is no avoiding what is coming. The Bernank is to blame, although Ms. Yellen will likely make matters worse in an effort to avoid the politically unpalatable outcome.

Political reality (Obama and Democrats plummeting in polls and likely to get slaughtered in the next election) suggest that Ms. Yellen has little time to continue the pretense of tapering. Her message from the last Fed meeting suggests she is laying the groundwork. The hard red line of 6.5% unemployment has been removed and replaced by some amorphous judgment call pertaining to economic conditions.

Ms. Yellen’s reversal will be hot on the heels of the first set of bad economic data. Markets, if they can hold out until then, will probably continue to rise after the policy change becomes public.

 

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Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:18 | 4606630 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yellen -- hmmmm, do I print and give money to my banker overlords, or...  Yeah, that.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:21 | 4606637 prains
prains's picture

I wonder if he owns a Nail Gun?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:34 | 4606676 Osmium
Osmium's picture

I sure hope he does, if not, he can borrow mine.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:45 | 4606949 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yeah, I have one he can use too. Really the title says it all for this article. Either way they blow it up; it'll be good for gold and silver; which is why they're so interesting as the main savings mechanism for a family or a person.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 08:42 | 4607449 free_lunch
free_lunch's picture
The truth is out: money is just an IOU, and the banks are rolling in it.
The Bank of England's dose of honesty throws the theoretical basis for austerity out the window: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-ban...
Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:50 | 4607974 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Scary visual, but Yellin might be caught between Ben's... _ock and a hard place.

Now matter which way she moves, she's screwed and we get stuck with the mess.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:24 | 4606644 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

Explain again how she suffers.  

 

She has a highly paid job and will be wealthy forever... unless she doesn't convert some of her paper for PM's anyway.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:25 | 4606648 prains
prains's picture

she suffers from migraines as her face transplant onto a giant q-tip has not completely taken

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 07:14 | 4607367 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Better than stuttering, stuttering, crooked finger, with hands always in a praying position. Or the quivering lip blue beard.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:26 | 4606651 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

It's quite strange how all out upper echelon Politicos and such do 'speaking tour' of the Kindom of Saud where they are paid hundreds of thousands, or even millions for their valuable speeches.

But none dare call it treason.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:41 | 4606694 blindman
blindman's picture

treason.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 00:02 | 4607084 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

treason, treason, treason - I'm so sick of reading the "they're-stupid-don't-know-what-their-doing line", it crops up everywhere and distracts people from the fact these appointees have considerable intellect and resources to make informed decisions, instead they are conspiring to impoverish the many for a small few.

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:19 | 4606900 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

It's such a transparent ploy--also the "autobiographies" and "memoirs"--as to be truly sickening.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:10 | 4607008 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

That picture of Benny is really something. What a character; it looks like he's trying out for a "what me worry" cover for MAD magazine.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 07:18 | 4607372 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

If you look closely it looks like he has a gold tooth in the back.  Who said he does not like gold.  He hides it well in his teeth.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:14 | 4607652 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

"There ain' nuthin uglier than an old white woman."  Fred Sanford 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:21 | 4606636 Event Horizon
Event Horizon's picture

Michael Pento complteley erased form a CNBC segment... 

 

Pento: “First, let me just say this is the first time such an event has ever occurred.  But I’m confident about this, the idea didn’t emanate from CNBC’s headquarters.  It had to come from those who have an interest in maintaining power by making sure the public is kept as uninformed and apathetic as possible.  


But to answer your question, I think it was the fact that I laid out the math behind a sovereign debt collapse in both Japan and the United States.  I think so much of the quiescence in yields in the bond markets in both America and Japan depends on confidence.  

 

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/3/28_Sh...

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:23 | 4606641 ATG
ATG's picture

Almost too late to fix America by impeaching DC

http://usnvrepcan.blogspot.com/

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:24 | 4606645 prains
prains's picture

the solution is about as far from political as Barry is from winning a shirts off game of basketball.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:32 | 4606667 ATG
ATG's picture

What is your solution then?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:42 | 4606698 prains
prains's picture

I'm not sure but I'd like it to involve BBQ sauce and nipples

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:06 | 4607001 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

really. guts on the doorknob and brains on the windows.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:19 | 4608200 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

ATG...

 

THERE IS NO SOLUTION.

 

Finance and Economics are both MATHEMATICAL DISCIPLINES.

 

Most Math Problems have NO SOLUTION. This is especially true in the fields of higher Mathematics.

 

THERE IS NO SOLUTION. In any way, method, manner, shape or form this system collapses.

 

We are cooked. We sit and write the requiem for a dying Nation.

 

So you are concerning yourself with that which cannot be fixed. You cannot DO anything about it.

 

But you can take measures to minimize the fallout and be optimally set up to even prosper from it. That is what you CAN DO.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:00 | 4606738 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"What is your solution then?"

Dissolution:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-transition-free-society

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:05 | 4606749 prains
prains's picture

sounds DE-growth to me

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:16 | 4606771 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Not it you're talking about freedom.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:26 | 4606793 prains
prains's picture

I've been married 25 years so the concept of freedom varies for me

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:11 | 4606881 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Freedom is a means, not an end.

You apparently thought mariage was, too.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:15 | 4606890 prains
prains's picture

at the time i thought there'd be snacks, it wasn't a difficult decision

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:19 | 4606898 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Hunger dulls the mind. 

Hence, children.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:24 | 4606915 prains
prains's picture

Hunger dulls the mind. 

 

tell that to the zombies

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:49 | 4606958 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

All they are is hunger. That's why you can't tell them anything.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:46 | 4608263 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Dissolution it just a euphemism for death...whether it be concerning a marriage or a Nation-State.

 

Why not give the message as cold and harsh as it deserves to be?

 

The Nation has bought the farm.

 

It is ready for the Dirt Nap.

 

It is as dead as someone on life support with failing kidneys and a heart that is too weak to maintain a Diastolic Pressure needed for dialysis...thus slowly poisoned.

 

The goose is being cooked. No more Golden Eggs are going to come from that goose.

 

IT IS FUCKING OVER. IT IS FUCKING TERMINAL.

 

(They are just too dense otherwise.)

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:22 | 4606639 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

That yellenator is out there...

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:24 | 4606643 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

This seems to be equal opportunity for idiot articles on ZH day.

The Fed has signaled a phase out of QE, and they really have no alternative.  Bubbleiciousness is showing up everywhere, and it has scared the crap out of them.  They still appear to be messing around in the repo market to hold rates down, but this too shall pass.

Mr. Yellen has no choice.  Look out below for stawks, housing, commodities and the lot.  Back to Mr. Market.  Enjoy the ride.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:24 | 4606647 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Tapering goes out the window the first time stocks go down 10%.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:37 | 4606683 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Could be Buzz, but what are the consequences?  The Median House costs $1 million with $10.00/hour wages?

Bernanke and Greenspan never had the balls to admit they were wrong.  Yellen doesn't have that baggage.

One thing I'm sure of, if they back off the taper they have lost all credibility and probably all control.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:01 | 4606743 chubbar
chubbar's picture

The consequences are dire either way. The U.S. is running a trillion dollar deficit and every country (except apparently Belgium) is either divesting US treasuries or running a deficit themselves and not in a position to buy them. Who do you think is going to have to step up to buy these? If they taper, as you indicate, what happens to the interest payments on 17 trillion in debt paper the US gov't owes on AND what happens to the housing market/economy with the sharply higher rates (not to mention interest rate swap derivatives)? We are all fucked thanks to this ponzi scheme, and taper or not isn't going to make a bit of differnce. One of the paths they take will bring us to the scene of the crash a little faster is all, not sure which one though.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:11 | 4606880 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

How can there be consequences?  Nearly the entirety of total QE resides as excess reserves deposited at the Fed for 0.25% return.

The Money Never Got To The Economy.  So what if they taper it.  All it will do is reduce the collateral the banks have for funding derivatives trading.

Equities may fall, but rates don't have to go up unless the economy becomes explosively powerful.  Anyone see that happening?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:04 | 4606993 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You don't understand. You're talking about rates that are controlled by Central Bankers. They only partially control, or influence would be better, some rates. Other, very important closely watched rates they don't contol at all. There are not only Bank Runs in this world. but Bond runs, and currency runs; we have seen all these things before. When, rather than if; sufficient numbers of people start selling their Federal Paper it's price will go down; which is usually commented on as a "rising interest rate"; the interest rate moves inversely to the price; and the Central Bank has absolutely no control over this at all. A failing economy would be an excellent trigger for this scenario. The Dollar/ fiat currency program / is a confidence game. LIterally, and precisely that; and nothing else but that. When the confidence goes; it's game over. You might say of the Fed., for instance, "our most important product is optimism". When their sunny anouncements aren't responded to by the audience; you will see consequences.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:14 | 4606745 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

+1000 Kaiser. Couldn't have said it more succinctly myself!

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:48 | 4606832 the question
the question's picture

But you have to consider the possibility that they continue to monetize the debt, but just not tell us.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:06 | 4607635 Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

Belgium, much?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:50 | 4608273 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

One thing I'm sure of, if they back off the taper they have lost all credibility and probably all control.

 

One thing that I am sure of. They have already lost all credibility and all control.

 

FIFY

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:30 | 4607041 css1971
css1971's picture

I think they are going to manage the decline. The big banks have been saved and that's what the fed exists to do.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:55 | 4608280 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Let me see...Can they control China? Can they control China's Shadow Banks? Can China control China's Shadow Banks?

 

How are they going to "manage the decline" when they have lost control?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:01 | 4606741 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

 

I've thought the same for some time Kaiser.  Why would the Big 4 banks destroy the fiat dollar system that empowers them?  Everytime someone brings up things like quadrilions in derivatives I laugh. What does a promise on a promise of a contingency mean in the real world?  I  think this is why you see the world retreating fork globalization WW3 is going to be an economic war with counter party risk and energy concerns coming to the forefront. Everyone seems to be retreating to or solidifying through exspansion their trading blocks because everyone knows ALL the sovereign debt will be moot.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:28 | 4606795 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes, the derivatives are toast. 

Buzz has been right about bonds for four long years.  My point here is fairly modest.  This experiment has been run.  We know what QE does.  It destroys living standards and price discovery, all to save a few corrupt mega-banks that could be easily replaced at a tiny fraction of the cost.  It also allows politicians to kick the can and avoid the hard choices.   Being in a position of "power" is going to be a lot less fun;)

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 09:47 | 4607522 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Well stated Kaiserhoff.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:55 | 4606976 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It's not a rational roposition. "Why would a six year old destroy himself and the house he lived in while playing with dynamite and caps?". They'll destroy it through ignorance and a kind of divine insolence that comes from decades of insulation from reality.  They're very, very, foolish, and very, very, greedy; and way-way too big. It's not a stable situation.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:28 | 4606653 booboo
booboo's picture

Two of the biggest crime syndicates in recent history joined forces to make the baddest assed nut kicking action flick of the decade. The Chicago Machine and The Federal Reserve in "SNAKES ON A MOTHER FUCKIN FLYING MOB OWNED ATM"

Coming to a theater near you October 2016

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:29 | 4606657 Malachi Constant
Malachi Constant's picture

A war is absolutely necessary right now to keep the top of the pyramid intact.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:31 | 4606663 Reaper
Reaper's picture

It's the stupid delusion of sheeple that either benevolent masterminds exist and/or the government can chose them. What are the credentials for a Fed Chair or voting member? At what school are these credentials earned? Would the ability to print and give away billions of dollars be corrupting? Does the Fed chair put on a magic cloak? What has Yellen ever done to show she has ability to succeed? Does delusion foster success?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:06 | 4606753 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

The funny thing about the people who use the word "sheeple", is that they are normally the sheep.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:20 | 4608344 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

The funny thing about the people who use the word "sheeple", is th at they are normally the sheep.

 

What is even funnier is when those sheep begin to detonate easy to construct BOMBS at the Oil Refineries...and shoot down the Lear Jets at the Regional Airports by targeting the engines.

 

Nobody will leave the party early. They will kill transportation. Then the Gated Communities will burn. They make for a good captive audience on audience participation night. The Middle Class is not as stupid as the ghetto dwellers.

 

Go ahead with your name calling.  Please continue.

 

Go autofellate spineless man.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:06 | 4608459 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

SPINELESS!!! Funny. As I am the only one to challenge you people.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:45 | 4608530 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Reply to my questions about P = (1 + r)t .

 

Enjoy this video about how to blow airplanes out of the sky...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH6GpXAXmx8

 

Of course I am not stupid as to be onboard. But there are other ways with a plethora of materials which are more easily available...FOR GROUND TARGETS.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:32 | 4606665 ramacers
ramacers's picture

... and now Mad Max looms.  well deserved lads and ladies.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:33 | 4606671 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

Jim Sinclair imagines that there is a way to escape, and techically he may be right, but there is absolutely no political will to follow his advice. Those that attempt to will be replaced the very next election.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:08 | 4606756 bardot63
bardot63's picture

If you believe replacing democrats with republicans [and vice versa] will solve any problems, you don't understand the problems.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:16 | 4606772 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

How many Austrian school democrats are there?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:34 | 4606679 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Tylers, check your spam filter.......

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:38 | 4606685 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Greenspan got out before the SHTF in 2008.  Bernanke did the same thing to Yellen as was done to him.  Obamao  and Ol' Yeller are going to take the blame for the coming 'Greatest' Depression. 

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:41 | 4606692 Notsobadwlad
Notsobadwlad's picture

If Janet Yellin is committed to full employment, then she has to be the most ignorant person in this world or the most duplicitous. She could not have failed to see that teh Fed prior actions did nothing to increase real employment.. clearly by design. That being the case, if she is actually committed to full employment then she must have deceived the handful of psycjhopaths ones who put her in her position. Her history would indiate she is not stupid ... or ingorant.

People should not be looking at the words of the Fed bosses or politicians and instaed look at their actions and the consequences of their actions. One should not assume that they are bumbling idiots who just can't get it right. It must be assumed that they are the best and brightest of this world and therefore everything is going according to plan.

There are no accidents. There are no black swams ... only swans that a corrupt group of cronies are claiming are black. 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:50 | 4606714 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

I guess giant hunks of rock never hurtle out of the sky either. It's just another false flag operation, to start a war with the asteroid belt? When you speak in absolutes and deny the existences of random events you just make yourself look like a nut. 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:47 | 4606708 El Gordo
El Gordo's picture

I sense the underlying assumption that someone somewhere in governmet wants to do the right thing to begin to restore this once great nation, but that they are just uncertain what to do or how fast to do it.  I happen to be in the camp that thinks government wants to do the right thing to complete the destruction of this nation's economy and it's middle class and to generally level the playing field.  If that is the case, and all the actions taken thus far would seem to indicate that it is, why would the Fed decide it's time to do something right?  It won't. 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:35 | 4606788 TheAnswerIs42
TheAnswerIs42's picture

I happen to be in the camp that thinks government wants to do the right thing to complete the destruction of this nation's economy and it's middle class and to generally level the playing field.

At this stage what other course of action is possible? Leveling the playing field means reducing the standard of living so the country can compete with other third world nations.

Seems to be going according to the plan. Massive debt to keep the lid on the pot, eventually the frogs will boil to death and not even notice.

In the meantime, things will digress and the new normal will be accepted without the requisite revolution. That will take another generation or so.

It is absolutely amazing that this has continued as long as it has, but they do seem to be getting away with it.

Manipulating the MSM and buying your own government does help  though.

Enjoy the circus.

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:51 | 4606717 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I don't get this hate for Bernanke. What the fuck else would you suggest that he had done? Your talking about a guy who dedicated his life to studying a great depression. Do you really think he didn't have the best intentions in mind?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 20:59 | 4606736 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

I have no problem with that, but now he should admit that all he has been taught, and believed up to this point has been wrong. Nothing is going to change until they give up Kaynesian economics and modern money theory.  One of these guys is going to have to be brave enough to say everything we believed is wrong, and if Bernanke knows that but refuses to say it then he deserves all the criticism he gets.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:04 | 4606747 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

All I ever read on here is people bitching about "Kaynesian economics", yet I have never read one comment with an actual alternative to the TARP other than a complete collapse of the financial system. I agree that QE may have not left us with great circumstances, but I just dont get people who say that Bernanke and Yellen are lying somehow. Come back with an actual alternative to what Bernanke did and I will consider your opinion.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:07 | 4606751 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

Iceland. You're either down with this whole free market thing or you aren't.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:13 | 4606766 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I am down with this free market, but I am also down with living the rest of my life not having to fend for my life or scavange to eat. Nobody knows what would happen if America suffered a crisis like Iceland. The dollar is the fucking reserve currency of the world. We owe I dont know how many fucking trillions in debt. & if you dont understand the systemic importance of the firms that were bailed out you don't deserve to be commenting on this issue.

 

Whats wrong with trying to save what we have left and live decent lives until the shit actually does hit the fan? I mean, even if you don't make a bankers salary, I'd bet that you probably still live a pretty good life here in America. Everyone who doesn't understand the possible consequences of an American financial collapse seems so willing to throw everything they have away.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:20 | 4606780 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

I do have sympathy for you. You at least realize we have a problem most don't, or don't want to know. Have you thought that the more we spend to hold off the inevitiable correction the worse it will be? 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:24 | 4606789 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Yes, but isn't it also true that if we let 2008 run its course that it could have been the end of America as we know it? If you don't understand that, then again, you do not deserve to comment on this issue.

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:32 | 4606802 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

It's still 2008 for the purpose of this conversation, and that's what you don't seem to be getting, but now we're trillions of dollars more in debt.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:33 | 4606803 prains
prains's picture

did you recently pull a muscle eggflayler, say in the last two weeks?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:09 | 4606876 Angry White Dude
Angry White Dude's picture

Reasonable minds can disagree on whether a collapse would or would not have happened and whether it should have been allowed to.

But, FUCK YOU for saying anyone does or does not deserve to comment. I hope you get eaten by wild dogs.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:30 | 4606924 prains
prains's picture

Dude

I thought in a rah rah we're number one capitalist society the idea was to create accurate price discovery through unfettered access to the market without intervention of any kind and any twiddling of the monetary knobs led to malinvestment, misallocation, corruption, cronyism, market distortion and criminal behaviour led buy a small group of insiders.

 

did you see what i did there?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:45 | 4606948 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

a lot of words, dude.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:15 | 4606886 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I went back and upticked eggslayer guy.

There weren't a zillion options at the time.  However, of course, with my focus on oil scarcity my perspective is no action would have been effective.  So it's an easy uptick bar to get over.

Besides which, I've never seen his name here before and if it's your first time at fight club, you HAVE to fight.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:47 | 4606952 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I'm starting to like this place.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:58 | 4608559 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Ready for Project Mayhem?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:22 | 4607027 css1971
css1971's picture

Well now, how do you describe America as you know it? TARP essentially defines America as a cryptofascist plutocracy.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:12 | 4607648 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Eggslayer - 2008 was the end of America as we know it. Bailing out criminals (banker and politician) especially at such magnitude finished off the rule of law that had been eroding for awhile. And so what if the banks had failed? Lending to all the wealthy, the corporations (more hot money into China) were all parties that didn't need it. So now we have a country that isnt going to grow for a good long time. Calitalism means reward for success, shuttering the doors when fail. "Compromising capitalism to save it" was a crock of shit. We're fascists now and the criminals run the plantation.

I am more of a rip the band aid off kind of guy myself. But I felt this way in 2008 because America has so many resources and talents, a couple of harsh years would have gone by fast as would have the reorganization. The people tend to take care of one another (less so now after slamming moral hazard up the populations wazoo). Now every other person is a criminal. The fish rots from the head down. Banks and trading platforms can and are being replaced and automated by software these days. America can print its own currency. Perhaps one's disposition is whether one personally benefitted from the bailouts and looting...
As for my disposition it is simple: The law must apply equally to all. I am not alone in this complaint, pretty much everybody now knows in the middle and upper classes the law doesn't apply evenly. So perhaps it is not surprising the population is beginning to also decide what laws to abide by. After all, who has time to know who is exempt and who is not from Obamacare for example? Have time to read and decipher 3,000 page bills written by insurance companies and bankers?

This argument is about the powerful raping the little guy. Those in power are supposed to be referee's not moving markets by dictation and creating laws to crush competition for the big. There is no such thing as a systemically important bank, that only is an argument for those that run them and wish to keep fleecing the global population.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:23 | 4606893 Errol
Errol's picture

EggSlayer, I'm aware that yours is not a popular position on ZH, but it sure deserves a hearing and debate.

I'm pretty sure that if the collapse in 2008 had been allowed to turn into a good 'ole 19th century Panic, world-wide trade would have been impacted negatively.  For better or for worse the US made itself keeper of the world's reserve currency by setting up the Petrodollar system, and so made itself the shepherd and conservator of the global logistics/Letter of Credit system.  In order to enable the system that the average American sure as hell enjoys benefitting from, the US was pretty much obligated to run big trade deficits and issue a lot of treasury paper (liquid collateral) in order to provide dollars to finance world trade on its present scale.

I think its a VERY real posibility that the folks at the top understand VERY well the implications of a continuing worldwide decline in per capita net energy available.  Despite all the propaganda to the contrary, fracking is NOT going to make the US energy independent, it is literally scraping the bottom of the barrel.  Paper wealth is imaginary wealth; the whole industrial edefice runs on energy, not paper.  Declining net energy per capita compels a continuing economic strangulation from now until the economies of scale no longer work, then a fast collapse.

The US government at this point does indeed have a dual mandate:

1.  Slow the contraction (fiscal and monetary stimulus) to allow time for people and systems to slowly adapt.

2.  The US military's job is to make sure that the EROEI decline-induced contraction is uneven; ie, it comes to the US last.

While the disposition of tribute within the US is not uniform, the Fed is part of a system consciously trying to keep the tribute flowing from the periphery to Manhatten as long as possible.

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:50 | 4606963 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Agreed, I understand that my views are probably not a popular one here at ZH. Someone's gotta say it. You went off on bit of a tangent there with fracking. I'm not all firmiliar with the benefits/ costs of fracking so I can't really comment.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:18 | 4607020 Errol
Errol's picture

EggSlayer, I'm sorry the reference to fracking seems off topic; it's kind of shorthand for the whole energy problem.

As I understand things, high-quality cheap energy permits a high-tech industrial system.  That industrial system MAYBE could survive a decline in the quantity and increase in cost of that energy IF it wasn't burdened by debt with compounding interest.

Energy is the ability to do work, as energy gets more scarce and expensive, less work can be done.  That's the real crevice between a rock and hard place humanity is stuck.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:28 | 4607674 oddball
oddball's picture

Your views are of the assholes "saving" this fake system.  Your views are of the assholes who sit in their offices pretending to instruct a real world skill.  Your views are of the status quo, the looting of Americas future. 

 

What are they saving, this 'better than theirs' police state?

 

Assholes.

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 07:35 | 4607381 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Sorry, but despite the best intentions of the Lizard People, millions, if not billions are gonna die due to their piloting the Titanic straight into the iceberg.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:14 | 4606768 hairball48
hairball48's picture

You must be a troll for Krugman.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 08:37 | 4607444 epobirs
epobirs's picture

Read David Stockman's book. He makes it very clear that TARP was completely unnecessary. It just would have been a bad year for the TBTF and some pain for everyone. If allowed to take its course it would have long been over and done with.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:20 | 4608038 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I don't believe that at all. There is a reason why they are called "TBTF", and its not just so that these central bankers could promote their secret agenda of widening the income gap. To everyone: I understand we have artificially inflated markets with TARP and QE, and that at some point in time we are going to have to face reality. What I am arguing is that Bernanke and the FSOC were pressed with an unprecedented issue with an extremely limited amount of time to get it done.

If all of you are such geniuses then why isn't anybody who shares your views in office? Why doesn't ANY prominent figure support your opinions? It is because there are minds who try to do the best they can given the circumstances. There are people who study actual financial trends and real world economics.

I would be interested in hearing what Stockman had to say though.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 13:01 | 4611021 marathonman
marathonman's picture

Egg,

The big banks could have taken a trip to bankrupcy court, been nationalized, had their stock holders wiped out, their CEO's jailed for fraud, and the system reset.  Instead, they propped up the Ponzi scheme to make its eventual unwind even more Hellish.  There's a big depression baked into this turd cake either way.  Better that Dimon, Blankfein, and the other TBTF CEO's had eaten most of the turd sandwich.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:12 | 4606761 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Egghead, Did you forget a /sarc?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:13 | 4606765 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

A humble and politically palatable option would have been to use QE as a negative income tax the last few years while at the same time pushing through mortgage cram down legislation combined with credit rating forgiveness for those that voluntarily expediated their foreclosure process.  That would have put more $ in the hands of consumers to prevent demand cratering, sped up the housing crash getting it over with and giving new home buyers a greater chance to benefit from the downturn as the foreclosure velocity would kill the flip game.  Not saying this was necessarily the right thing to do, but if he was gonna flood the market with trillions in liquidity it would have certainly got us better results than his billionaire welfare program.  hell, Any Austrian or Chicago school economist could have reluctantly supported such a course.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:22 | 4606783 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Are you suggesting that instead of spending the QE money on MBS and treasurys that it should have been "payed" to taxpayers? The point of QE in the first place was provide liquidity to banks, and the whole point of TARP was to relieve systemically important firms. Your suggestion would still end in a financial collapse. & "mortgage cram down legislation" was a necessity either way, which was actually done through Dodd Frank.

 

I could see if they used some of the money as tax credits or a "negative income tax". But, still yet to see a viable alternative.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:26 | 4606791 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

You're talking like TARP worked. It didn't, the problem is still here. We've just been pushing the pause button with trillions of dollars, and as soon as we run out of dollars that collapse is going to hit, but magnitudes worse.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:36 | 4606813 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

The TARP may have worked. All I know right now is that economic conditions do not point in that direction. Considering the stock market, obviously were in for some kind of correction soon.

I don't really have an opinion about how were going to get out of debt. I guess we could inflate the currency, but I don't know enough about it to have an opinion.

All I can say is that I really don't see an alternative to TARP. And until someone comes up with a viable alternative I will think the same. I would actually be excited to hear of one. But still, in my opinion the bull market has only been due to the Fed pumping and once the focus is back to company fundamentals then well see some kind of correction.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:38 | 4606817 prains
prains's picture

you may need to lie down I think you've poached yourself

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:04 | 4606870 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

You're funny prains, I'll give you that.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:17 | 4606894 prains
prains's picture

here every night, don't forget to buy a drink

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:50 | 4606965 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Oh, don't worry. I've already had a few.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:06 | 4606872 Angry White Dude
Angry White Dude's picture

I think you forgot the /sarc.

If not, then the only interests Bernanke ever looked out for was the Fed's and its owners. The Fed does not care one whit about the welfare of the country except so far as it serves its own selfish intersts.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:05 | 4606999 css1971
css1971's picture

I'm not sure of your point. He did exactly what the FED is designed to do. Save the shareholders. The federal reserve was set up by the biggest banks specifically to save them when TSHTF.

He never would or could have not saved the TBTF. It is simply what the federal reserve is there to do, if he'd tried to do anything else he would have been removed.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:18 | 4606777 hairball48
hairball48's picture

I doubt any Austrians would support any form of QE under any circumstance.

Those who made the "bad bets" needed to fail and go broke. period...and the solution is the same now as then.

If you Bernanke dicksuckers don't "get it", you need to get off of ZH and go watch Barney, the purple menace.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:29 | 4606798 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Your a fucking idiot. What do you think would have happend if those who made the bad bets went broke? Enlighten me.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:36 | 4606811 prains
prains's picture

they wouldn't have gone to work for a dumb fuck like you....

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:37 | 4606815 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Nice one.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:36 | 4606814 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

Your problem is that you think there is a possibility of a "good" outcome. That there is some magic loophole that will let you keep your iphone. You're hoping that there is some way to hold all this off till you die. If you're pretty old or ill then you've got a chance. I'm betting that you're not that old, but cheer up there is always the chance you'll get hit by a bus sometime this year.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:39 | 4606819 prains
prains's picture

it's called maffs egg beater lurn 2 spel ut

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:40 | 4606820 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I'm fucking 21. The sad truth is that I don't see this whole thing lasting for more than 20 more years but I would sure love to have it the other way. I understand what everyone is saying. Yes, I know we are probably fucked. But why not try?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:44 | 4606827 prains
prains's picture

because egg von bismark the math says you'll be stopping bullets for the Fed in your near future as a result of the Feds intervention and your proximity to a fighting age.

 

y.o.u.n.e.e.d.t.o.w.a.k.e.u.p

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:47 | 4606835 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Its a funny think I've been noticing. I grew up with people who use similar vocabulary. "Sheeple", "wake up", "you people need to wake up". The funny thing is the people who use that vocabulary are normally the least educated and most impressionable. Make your own opinions you fucking coward.

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:53 | 4606845 prains
prains's picture

yes it sounds like you've put your first 21 years to good use, good luck with whatever you have left, hopefully the fairer sex is smart enough not to breed with you. we're needing a bump in intelligence on this ball and you're not really looking to be a viable candidate to reproduce. don't steal anything in a muslim country you'll need those hands 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:07 | 4606873 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Haha, thanks for that. I needed a laugh just now.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:21 | 4606905 Carpenter1
Carpenter1's picture

Free markets need to be allowed to work, even if it means pain. We cannot avert or diminish the pain by printing trillions. All we do is ensure it will be far worse later, and not 100 years later.

If we had taken our medicine in 2009, we would be on our way to a real recovery by now. Instead, we're looking square in the eyes of the total collapse of the system.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:46 | 4606950 Errol
Errol's picture

Carpenter1, you wrote "...we would be on our way to a real recovery by now."

This is not true.  The last Depression in the US was accompanied by continuously increasing oil production (the irreplaceable lifeblood of our present industrial system).  That allowed for real growth in the US up until production peaked in 1971.  What the US has experienced since is phoney growth, based on running ever-increasing trade deficits to import energy, plus ever-increasing debt on corporate, public, and private accounts.

Think I'm mistaken?  Explain why, if there's still plenty of oil, the US is drilling above the Artic Circle, in a mile of water (!) in the Gulf of Mexico, and screwing around fracking little damp spots of oil in Noth Dakota?  Why, despite growth slowing in China, Southern Europe already in a deflationary depression, and the US just limping along, is oil still $100 a barrel?

THERE WILL BE NO RECOVERY!  Things are not going back to how they were in 1971 - not now, not ever!

If the Fed and US happy-face propaganda buy you some time, don't waste it waiting for "on our way to a real recovery".  Make arrangements to feed yourself and you family if the Fed is not sucessful in bullshitting eveyone that things are gonna be just hunkey-dorey.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:52 | 4606970 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

This is Carcosa.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:27 | 4607037 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

Damn TV show.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 18:57 | 4608716 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

The funny thing is the people who use that vocabulary are normally the least educated and most impressionable. Make your own opinions you fucking coward.

 

Amongst the least educated, eh? Answer my fucking questions. At your young age you have not a clue about anything that I have done, anything which I have experienced, or where I have been.

 

What is an adiabatic system? What in the hell do you know about thermodynamics? Why do Financial Institutions hire the Physicists as quants in your arena?

 

What do you know about General and Special Relativity? How does it apply to Economics?

 

It was a Grad Student in Economics that demostrated to me, at 3AM in a Dorm, that Newton's Law of Gravitational Attraction was truly Universal as it was applicale to his field of study.

 

Have you ever heard of Econophysics? What an arrogant little prick. Go autofellate, oh spineless wonder.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:49 | 4606961 css1971
css1971's picture

Oh it's going to last the rest of your life one way or another. You are going to live through the consequences.

Why not save the system? Well because the existing system is designed to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich.More specifically it rewards corruption and cronyism of those with political power and makes the pensioner, the saver and the small business employee pay for the lies and excesses of the political class and their enablers.

The problem is that the wealth that has been promised does not actually exist, it either never did in the first place, or it has been promised to many people and there are far more claims on it than there is wealth. The system being saved is quite literally a pyramid scam. The only questions are who takes the loss and when exactly will it become blindingly obvious that promises are going to be broken?

The earlier you take your loss and change your behaviour the smaller the problem will be. It's fairly clear though that the people in charge are going to do neither, they will ride the monster to bond crisis, currency crisis, economic collapse and the resulting social upheavals. That way you pay and they don't.

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:57 | 4606979 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

It's just rediculous to me that people like you are so willing to throw away your life here in America for something that you believe will be like the holy grail. Dude, you need to look how the rest of the world lives. I don't care what you make, your life is not comparable to the majority of people who live on this earth considering quality of life.

How do you know that once we suffer a collapse that we won't be bombed by one of our hundreds of enemies that are probably waiting for the slightest hint of weakness? Be thankful for what you have. Thats all I'm saying.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:39 | 4608391 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

What do you think about the Trillions of Dollars of DEBT that has been laid upon the backs of the taxpayer? What do you think about the 100 Trillion of Unfunded Liabilities?

 

Do you believe that it is correct to be born into debt? That is ENSLAVEMENT.

 

Be thankful for that? Give me a break.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:57 | 4606981 Errol
Errol's picture

EggSlayer, I'm sorry, I don't think we have 20 years.  They bought more years than I thought they could (Ronnie Raygun kicked off the debtapalooza) by mortaging 200 years of accumulated capitol and pulling demand forward from 2030, but that appears to be pretty much played out now.  The Fed is stalling for time: make use of it.  Get strong, learn a real world skill - even if it isn't presently "economically viable", find one you enjoy as a hobby.

At least you're young; that is an advantage in turbulent times.  I'm 60-something; my best strategy is to be dirtnapping when the starvation starts.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:02 | 4606985 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I do need to find a real skill. You're right. However I really am just too enthralled by everything thats going on in the financial sector that this is the direction I really want to take. Maybe, hopefully, one day I can use my knowledge for good. After all, I believe that America is the greatest country in the world. I guess we just need the right people to take it in the right direction.

But, I will always be ready for a collapse. Just because I am so aware of it.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:42 | 4607700 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Eggslayer - Why not try? Because the marginal utility of debt is no longer yielding returns. The jig was up in 2008. That's when fiscal policies ahould have come to the forefront. TARP may have been useful to bolster confidence in the short term but that should have followed up by reorganiztion. Bankers that commited fraud should have been expunged from the market even if the institutions were saved.

Instead, IB's lined up at the discount window, borrowed hundreds of billions and dumped it into driving commodities sky high, where they remain today. More printing and you get more of the same.

Banking is becoming boring once again as it should be, a country cannot grow on speculation. The actions of 2008 changed my behavior. Perhaps I was naive that those in charge would not have to oblige themselves under the same laws as me. So for the rest of my life (I am 43) I'll devote more time hedging from criminals (even after this cycle) and methods to pay the least amount of taxes. That time would be better spent on innovating. Are you recognizing how 2008 changed people's behavior on a near permanent basis?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:26 | 4608051 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I do believe that the bankers who explicitly commited fraud were jailed. Explicity meaning laws that are written, not those that are considered moral responsibility (need to cover my ass, that one will really get me lit up here).

Did banks use the discount window? I know they were forced to take interest bearing lump sums as part of TARP but I am not aware of their use of the discount window. Atleast for the biggest banks.

I do see that 2008 changed many things on a permanent basis.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:48 | 4606837 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Simple.

An extremely unstable flawed system would have collapsed.

Better in the past than now, better now than in the future.

There are no good choices, only less bad ones.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:52 | 4606844 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Yes, it would have collapsed.

Last line was on point.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:15 | 4606888 Angry White Dude
Angry White Dude's picture

And it should have been allowed to collapse.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 23:09 | 4606858 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

RE: Hairball Untrue about the Austrians.  Both Hayek and Friedman said if you're going to do redistributive policy a negative income tax that binds Welfare to free market job creation was the way to go.  Friedman was quite pragmatic outside of his political novels. In the real world there's no black white options. .gov through the FED was going to create liquidity after the crash.  Given that fact putting the money in consumers pockets was a far better option.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:41 | 4606822 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

It's funny as I'm arguing with all you people and this whole time I am yet to hear one viable alternative to TARP (QE).

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:44 | 4606830 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

......and we're right back where we started from. Have a good night I'm out for the evening.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:46 | 4606834 prains
prains's picture

you haven't been listening due ot your age, and your time on ZH has not been long enough to go back through the mountain of alternate choices that have been written about for so long the articles are now being recylced in point form. ie. 20 reasons eggflayer needs to do his homework before spouting off

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:52 | 4606842 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

TARP and QE are two separate issues first of all.  I gave you an alternative to QE.  If QE's goal was to increase money velocity my thesis would do it better.  Any alternative would as QE was an absolute failure at increasing the velocity of money.  As for TARP the alternative was to nationalize the big banks and have the FED provided a short term lending window to systemically important NON financial business ONLY.  WWould have been cheaper and allowed for true price discovery much you the benefit of consumers and to the detriment of asset holding speculator crony capitalist assholes.

Now please retort as to why saving the bottom line of banker scum was a better option?

 

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:01 | 4606863 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Ok. First of all, QE is a part of TARP. QE's goal is not to increase velocity, it is to provide liquidy to banks. No part of TARP was to nationalize large banks, all of the banks that received TARP money were already national banks. The discount window is indeed an issue all itself. It is basically giving banks access to free money. But the fact is that banks don't want to borrow form the discount window because it could make people think they are having problems.

Saving the banks was the only option because if they didn't then it would have 100% led to a collapse of the entire financial system. (look up systemic importance/ systemic risk).

However, heres somthing I bet you didn't know which will probably add to your hatered of the Fed. They actually payed interest on banks reserves as a part of Dodd Frank I believe it was. I think they still are.

 

 

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:12 | 4606882 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

QE and TARP are different.  The GM bailout and various purchases of banker trash assets were TARP legislation.  QE is more a less the FEDs independent purchasing of "assets" with Ctrl-P fiat the last few years. Their stated goals (which you seem to believe in) weren't quite the same.  IIn actuality they accomplished the same goal, inhibiting our economic recovery and keeping the Big 4 banks power structure intact.  As for letting the banks fail and be nationalized, both Iceland and Argentina repudiated debt and let banks fail in the last decade plus and they came out much better for it.  As Kaiser said their is NOTHING the big banks and the FED do that could not be more efficiently performed by smaller regional banks hand in hand with the treasury.  If as you say you're "down" with free markets, you have much to learn young padwan.  I feel the dark side of bankster lust within you...

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:16 | 4606887 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

j

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:18 | 4606896 prains
prains's picture

yes after that beating it must be 4:20 somewhere

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:23 | 4606904 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

"No part of TARP was to nationalize large banks, all of the banks that received TARP money were already national banks." - Eggslayer

 Had to call him out specifically for this one Prains :-)  Really shows he's out of his league.

 

 

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:23 | 4606912 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Were talking about two different kinds of nationalization.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:38 | 4606938 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Did you go to college? If so, where, what did you study, and have you graduated yet?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:43 | 4606945 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

I go to college, I study Finance and Economics, and I will graduate in a month.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:48 | 4606956 prains
prains's picture

demand your money back

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:00 | 4608420 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Finance and Economics? Wow. I am impressed.

 

You know this right?

 

P = (1 + r)t

 

I want to know the solution of that equation for 't'. I want to know the solution of that equation for 'r'.

 

Then I'd like you to evaluate that equation for

 

dP/dt

and

d2P/dt2.

The last person here who told me that he graduated with a degree in Economics could not do that.

 

Impress me.

 

You are on a Financial Website after all. And yer gonna be a graduate and all o'that. I am impressed.

 

Then you can describe for me what a Logarithm actually is, right, as Math is the LANGUAGE of Economics.

 

You can also describe what the implications of the first and second derivative are in regards to that relationship.

 

BTW...What University are you graduating from?

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 22:22 | 4606907 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Haha, I'm smoking a huge bong right now and ripping lines of china white.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:31 | 4608370 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

So you are a fucking amoral, hedonistic, drug addict? It figures.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 18:30 | 4608657 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

You had best watch Fight Club so this makes some sense...

 

http://putlocker.bz/watch-fight-club-online-free-putlocker.html

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:29 | 4608362 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Collapse, bankruptcy, and a reset were viable alternatives. We'd be on the other side of the pain. That was the best strategy. Let them fail.

 

They are currently going to fail anyway. All that was done was allow a transfer of wealth to the very top and consolidate a ruling oligarchy. That is diametrically opposed toeverything which is for Liberty and Freedom. It was a raid on the US Treasury at the expense of the taxpayer.

 

That is not viable as death is preferable to oppression and tyranny. So the ruling class will reap that which they've sown.

 

Lear Jets are easy to shoot down. (TARGET THE ENGINES.) And the state has failed to take away the guns.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 21:44 | 4606829 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

March on the FED in the spring.

Simple goals...

Abolish the FED and return the powers to the treasury.

Break up the big banks after prosecution for their crimes. Do you need a list?

James Madison was a revolutionary at 23.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!