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"They Never Learn" - Russia's Take On The "West" And The Shifting Geopolitical Balance Of Power

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Over the past month, there has been a lot of "Hilsenrathing", or the biased media urgently "explaining" to the Western world, just what Russia's actions mean both tactically in response to Ukraine developments, and strategically as part of Putin's global perspective. So instead of relying on the broken media narrative which serves merely to perpetuate US corporate interests and rally the public behind this or that company's geopolitical interests, here, straight from the horse's mouth, in this case Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov, how Russia sees itself in a world in which it is allegedly "isolated", and "threatening Ukraine" with further invasion but more importantly, how the Russians view the rapidly changing global balance of power, in which post-USSR Russia has emerged from the backwood of slighted nations and stormed to the stage of nations who dare defy the former global hegemon, the US.

Some notable highlights by Lavrov from the interview conducted with Rossiya 24:

  • “Isolation” is a term invented by our Western partners who act with nostalgic neo-imperial ambitions in mind. The instant something isn’t to their liking they draw out this sanctions stick. The times when such strategy could be employed are long gone.... I’m surprised at how obsessively they’re trying to – create rather than find – proof of Russia’s isolation.
  • China is a very close partner of Russia. In our joint documents our relations are defined as comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation. All of China’s actions reaffirm its commitment to the principles we agreed on. If, as you say, the Americans did try to convince China to review its economic agreements with Russia on the highest level, it’s an off-the-scale naïve or brazen attitude. I would even say that not understanding the essence of Chinese politics and mentality is just inexcusable for the officials in charge of such negotiations.
  • At the very beginning China said that it takes into consideration the combination of historical and political factors. China strongly opposed using non-diplomatic measures and threats of sanctions to resolve this problem. Our contacts with our Chinese partners show that they not only understand Russia’s rightful interests in this case, but are also hand-in-hand with us in the understanding of the initial causes of the current crisis in Ukraine. There is no doubt about it.
  • Over a month ago I raised the issue of the Right Sector and the necessity to dissociate from the radical forces with our Western partners. I asked them a very simple question: “If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?” Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle. US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote.

The punchline:

  • It is wrong for NATO members to be protected with indivisible security and for everybody else to be treated as second-rate nations, so NATO can act as a magnet to attract new members and keep pushing the dividing line further to the east.
  • We were promised that NATO would not bring its military infrastructure closer to our borders – and we were cheated. We were promised there would be no military installations on the territory of the new NATO members. At first, we just listened to those promises and believed them. Then we started putting them on paper as political obligations, and serious people, Western leaders, signed those documents. But when we asked them how come those political obligations were ignored and whether we can make them legally binding, they told us, “No, political obligations are enough, and anyway, don’t worry, whatever we do is not against you.”
  • Eastern Partnership – as well as NATO expansion – was simply an instrument used to quickly take control over geopolitical territory. The EU was ready to push this project through at any cost. It completely ignored legitimate economic interests of both Ukraine’s neighbors, like Russia and other countries, and even the nations that were part of this program. There have been many studies on this issue. No wonder even Yatsenyuk says that Ukraine needs to take a closer look at the economic section of this agreement.

And the next steps in terms of what Russia sees an ongoing response to NATO incursion:

  • The same will happen with Moldova. They are doing their best to sign a similar agreement with Moldova this summer, before the upcoming election. And this agreement they intend to sign with Moldova – it completely ignores the issue of Transnistria. It ignores the 1997 agreement between Chisinau and Tiraspol which entitled Transnistria to international trade. It ignores what is happening with Transnistria today: Chisinau and the new Ukrainian authorities have basically blockaded the territory. But our European partners keep mum about that. In fact, the European Union and, I think, the United States approve of this policy.

     

  • We want to talk to them very seriously about that, because they are escalating tensions over Transnistria, almost claiming that it will be next. This is outrageous, provocative rhetoric. Actually, they want to create unbearable conditions for Tiraspol in violation, I repeat, of the agreements which entitled Transnistrians to certain travel, transit and trade rights. This is outrageous. They never learn. Once again, they seek to create a sore point in our relations.

Click on the image below for the full interview:

And the full transcript, courtesy of RT.com

There is no intention in Moscow to send its troops into eastern Ukraine, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said. Hopefully, the growing understanding in the West of Russia’s position will allow for a de-escalation of the tension, he added.

In an interview with Rossiya 24 TV channel, Lavrov spoke on the futile western attempts to isolate Russia diplomatically, the growing acceptance of the need for constitutional reform, which Moscow proposes, the prospects of NATO’s expansion into Ukraine and the potential for global presence of the Russian Navy.

‘No isolation of Russia in UN Assembly vote on Crimea’

Question: After the G7 countries announced their decision to withdraw from the G8, it was said that now Russia is isolated in the international arena. In the UN General Assembly 100 countries voted against Russia. The claim of Russia being isolated is true, then?

Sergey Lavrov: “Isolation” is a term invented by our Western partners who act with nostalgic neo-imperial ambitions in mind. The instant something isn’t to their liking they draw out this sanctions stick. The times when such strategy could be employed are long gone. They should think about getting everyone, with no exceptions, to work together, not about isolating their partners.

I’m surprised at how obsessively they’re trying to – create rather than find – proof of Russia’s isolation. I’ve seen a lot in my time, but for major countries to use all their diplomatic resources to twist the arms of the entire world, including our closest partners, in order for them to agree with the argument about Ukraine’s territorial integrity while ignoring the rest of the principles outlined in the UN Charter? I was astonished with the alacrity. Key government institutions expend so much effort on this.

It’s the case with the UN General Assembly vote. Such results are achieved by a combination of several means. First, our Ukrainian neighbors were advised to keep the tone of their draft resolution non-confrontational and level-headed, to send a positive message of the need to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity. Who would oppose that? But that’s not even half of the truth, it’s just a sliver of it. You and our viewers understand what I’m talking about.

 

Diplomats watch electronic monitors showing a vote count, as the U.N. General Assembly voted and approved a draft resolution on the territorial integrity of the Ukraine at the U.N. headquarters in New York March 27, 2014. (Reuters / Eduardo Munoz)

Diplomats watch electronic monitors showing a vote count, as the U.N. General Assembly voted and approved a draft resolution on the territorial integrity of the Ukraine at the U.N. headquarters in New York March 27, 2014. (Reuters / Eduardo Munoz)

Then, some countries that are naïve enough for it are told, “Look, it’s such a great resolution, why don’t you sign it and become a co-sponsor.” The more experienced ones who realize what’s really going on are approached with, “If you don’t support this resolution, there will be consequences.” And then they describe these consequences. We know about that. Our colleagues come to us and confide why this or that relatively small country has to cave in. For example, they were told contracts would not be signed or political dividends would be withheld. If we take into consideration that the West in the broad sense, including Australia, New Zealand, Japan etc., amounts to about 40-something countries, basically 50 states were forced or somehow persuaded to do it.

We hold no grudge against these delegations. It will not affect our relations with them. I can’t but point out another number: about 70 countries refused to support this resolution.

Q: And if we count the countries who didn’t cast a vote that would make it 93.

SL: So basically it’s a tie. The Western propaganda machine – there’s really no other way to call it – will hail it as a great victory in the media, but we know the value of this victory.

Q: 100 countries voted against Russia. The number of countries that voted for Russia abstained or didn’t cast a vote comes up to 93. This includes the brave countries that, despite the pressure, made this choice.

SL: This is no doubt a brave thing to do. It’s not anti-Western or anti-Ukrainian. It reflects a deep understanding of what’s going on the part of the countries who didn’t vote in favor and especially those who voted against. This wasn’t about territorial integrity or Ukraine at all.

‘China understands legitimate Russian interests and concerns in Ukraine’

Q: Three weeks ago, on our program, Russian Ambassador to the UN Vitaly Churkin said that Russia expects to see moral support from China. China abstained from voting on the resolution. After that President Obama and President of China Xi Jinping held a meeting, during which, as my Western colleagues told me, the Americans were trying to persuade China to scrap gas supply contracts with Russia. And then you met with Xi Jinping. So what is China to Russia?

SL: China is a very close partner of Russia. In our joint documents our relations are defined as comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation. All of China’s actions reaffirm its commitment to the principles we agreed on. If, as you say, the Americans did try to convince China to review its economic agreements with Russia on the highest level, it’s an off-the-scale naïve or brazen attitude. I would even say that not understanding the essence of Chinese politics and mentality is just inexcusable for the officials in charge of such negotiations.

At the very beginning China said that it takes into consideration the combination of historical and political factors. China strongly opposed using non-diplomatic measures and threats of sanctions to resolve this problem. Our contacts with our Chinese partners show that they not only understand Russia’s rightful interests in this case, but are also hand-in-hand with us in the understanding of the initial causes of the current crisis in Ukraine. There is no doubt about it. President Putin and President Xi Jinping spoke on the phone. On March 24, I met with President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the Nuclear Security Summit in The Hague. BRICS foreign ministers held talks as well.

Q: Did BRICS work out the joint statement in The Hague?

SL: It’s the chairperson’s statement, which the Foreign Minister of South Africa delivered after our meeting.

 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov (L) shakes hands with Swiss President Didier Burkhalter (R), whose country currently holds the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) rotating presidency, prior to their meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations (UN) Human Rights Council session on March 3, 2014 at the UN headquarters in Geneva. (AFP Photo / Salvatore Di Nolfi)

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov (L) shakes hands with Swiss President Didier Burkhalter (R), whose country currently holds the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) rotating presidency, prior to their meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations (UN) Human Rights Council session on March 3, 2014 at the UN headquarters in Geneva. (AFP Photo / Salvatore Di Nolfi)

'Ukraine, not Russia hampered OSCE mission deployment'

Q: Last Saturday we informed our viewers that the OSCE agreed on the mandate of a mission to be sent to Ukraine. Why did Russia object to it initially? What’s the mission going to work on?

SL: I would say that it was our Western and Ukrainian partners that initially objected to this mission.

Q: But as usual it was presented the other way around – Russia against the rest of Europe.

SL: We’re used to that. Orwellian talents are still widely used. Russia was willing to send the OSCE mission a week before the decision was finally made. Even though everything was clear by then, our partners demanded with inexplicable determination for Crimea to be included in the mandate as part of Ukraine.

One can completely disagree with our take on the situation, one can refuse to recognize the decisions made by Russia based on the will of the Crimean people and supported by an overwhelming majority. We understand that, it happens. But it’s just diplomatic impudence or complete diplomatic incompetence to fail to comprehend the real political situation and the utter uselessness of their demands after we said we would recognize any outcome of the referendum in Crimea, telling us that despite what the President said the mandate of the mission should include Crimea as part of Ukraine.

Q: Moscow was insisting that the mission should go to western regions of Ukraine as well as eastern. Was that achieved?

SL: Taking into consideration our Western colleagues’ well-proven talents to twist words and interpret provisions, we were insisting that cities and regions be listed in the mandate instead of it just saying “mission to Ukraine.” Of course the list includes cities situated both in western and eastern parts of Ukraine, but none situated on the territory of the Republic of Crimea of the Russian Federation.

‘Denunciations of Right Sector were long overdue’

Q: Maybe then what we see is some progress not only in terms of sending an OSCE mission to Ukraine, but also new Ukrainian authorities, their legitimacy aside, dealing with the Right Sector problem, as evidenced by the last 36-48 hours.

SL: It’s taken them too long, though it’s true that [it’s] better late than never. Over a month ago I raised the issue of the Right Sector and the necessity to dissociate from the radical forces with our Western partners. I asked them a very simple question: “If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?” Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle.

Our colleagues reacted quite strangely to our requests to at least publicly express their opinion on these forces and exert their influence on the people in Kiev who claim they’re the new authorities so that they do the same. At first they avoided the issue, and then at one of the recent meetings, I think it was in London, US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote. A lot of people were present at the meeting, so I’m not revealing a secret here. I was giving examples of the opposite trend concerning these groups, starting with their urging the public to shoot Russians in the head and kill them, calling Russians names, and all the way up to the beatings that take place even in the eastern parts of Ukraine where the members of these groups consider themselves at home.

 

Members of the Ukrainian far-right radical group Right Sector stand outside the parliament in Kiev March 28, 2014. (Reuters / Valentyn Ogirenko)

Members of the Ukrainian far-right radical group Right Sector stand outside the parliament in Kiev March 28, 2014. (Reuters / Valentyn Ogirenko)

As for what’s been happening in the last few days, let’s hope that the Ukrainian government’s statements and steps are the result of some awareness campaign conducted by our Western partners. Like I said, better late than never.

Let’s see what comes out of it and whether those in power manage to bring to heel the people they relied on to get their current positions. The recent events, that is, when the Right Sector surrounded the Verkhovna Rada [Ukrainian Parliament] building again and demanded for the Interior Minister to be sacked because of [Right Sector leader] Sashko Bilyi’s death, are very telling. Whatever one might think about the circumstances of his death, which, like in any such case, should be investigated thoroughly, one can’t fail to notice the moral boost his death gave to the people wearing Right Sector colors who follow the principles we all know about. It’s a very alarming signal.

It surprised me that while Russian television, including your channel, showed the siege of the Verkhovna Rada and commented comprehensively on the events unfolding between the Right Sector and the members of parliament, on their possible ramifications, Euronews hasn’t said a word about it, with Ukraine mentioned in the context of the IMF deal in the third or fourth news piece.

Sadly, this kind of coverage is also telling. We’ll try to establish the truth through channels alternative to mainstream Western media. I hope that your alternative channels become the mainstream.

‘Sad to see OSCE justify censorship of media in Ukraine’

Q: Alternative channels – that’s another matter, since Ukrainian cable providers were banned from transmitting Russian TV channels. At first, the OSCE condemned it. As far as I understand, this issue was raised even at your talks with the Western partners. Then it was slowly moved towards the bottom of the priorities list. As the OSCE representative said, there are national interests that allow for TV censorship.

SL: Yes, Dunja Mijatovi? said that. Let’s just say that being the OSCE Representative on Freedom of Media, she should show more freedom in her judgments. It’s lamentable that excuses are made for banning Russian channels. Who could imagine that channels can be banned if it’s done for protecting fundamental values? However, Ms. Mijatovi? dismissed in the past our numerous appeals that demonstrations with fascist and neo-Nazi slogans held in a number of the OSCE countries were unacceptable, citing freedom of speech. So in Ms. Mijatovi?’s opinion four channels are more dangerous than neo-Nazi demonstrations in the Baltic states and a number of other countries, including Germany.

‘Idea of Ukrainian Federation no longer taboo for western diplomats’

Q: What kind of a compromise with the West is possible? Russia is on one side of the line, and the US and the West are on the other, so which points can you agree on with your colleagues?

SL: I don’t believe we’re divided by that strict a line. We’re working on aligning our positions. Based on my latest meeting with Secretary of State John Kerry in The Hague and my contacts with Germany, France and a number of other countries, I can say that there’s a possibility of drafting a joint initiative that we could offer to our Ukrainian colleagues.

It’s a very important consideration, because up until now our partners have been offering to set up a contact group within the framework of which Russia and the people who seized power in Kiev would negotiate under their supervision. Such a platform is absolutely unacceptable, and that’s not even the issue. What’s happening in Ukraine now is the result of the deep crisis in the political system, triggered by the inability – I wouldn’t want to accuse anyone of deliberately avoiding it – of each successive leader to reconcile the interests of the western and southeastern regions of Ukraine. It can’t go on like this.

We are convinced that Ukraine needs a fundamental constitutional reform. To be honest, we see no other way that would ensure Ukraine’s sustainable development except becoming a federation. Maybe someone knows better, and there’s a magic formula that would make a unitary system of government work in a state where in western, eastern and southern regions people celebrate different holidays, honor different heroes, have economic structure, speak different languages and think differently and gravitate towards different European cultures. It’s tough to live in a unitary state like that.

That’s why on March 10 we gave an unofficial document outlining our vision to our American, European and Chinese partners and other colleagues, including BRICS countries.

Q: So, a constitutional reform, elections...

SL: No. First of all, it states that the most urgent task is to stop the violence of armed groups, disarm militants and free all illegally seized buildings – which hasn’t been done yet – as well as squares, streets, cities, towns and villages.

First and foremost we mean Maidan. It’s just a disgrace for a European country and one of the most beautiful cities in Europe to have this kind of thing for half a year, and in front of Western visitors besides. We’re told Maidan will stay until presidential election take place, with the outcome that satisfies Maidan. It’s a disgrace for all who put up with it.

We proposed to start with sorting out these issues, especially since it was a responsibility Mr Klichko, Mr Yatsenyuk, and Mr Tyagnibok assumed when they signed the document along with the German, French and Polish foreign ministers.

 

Another thing we proposed was to begin a comprehensive constitutional reform right away, with all political forces and regions having an equal say in it, to discuss establishing a federation, which would grant every region wide powers in the spheres of economy, culture, language, education, economic and cultural ties with neighboring countries or regions and guarantee minority rights.

Taking into consideration the number of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine, we propose and we’re convinced that there’s no other option – and a few presidential candidates said so on numerous occasions – but to make Russian language the second official language of Ukraine, and ensure the rights of minorities in every constituent entity in accordance with the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages.

Q: There are Hungarians and Romanians living there as well.

SL: Hungarians, Czechs, Germans – they are all complaining to the governments of their countries that they are no longer comfortable living in Ukraine. Czechs even wanted to go back home but the Czech government said, “No, we looked at the conditions you live in and we think you are fine.” This indicates that they care more about geopolitical matters and political expediency than about human rights.

A constitutional reform should be approved by a referendum. It should take into account the interests of all the regions. And once this constitution is approved by a nationwide vote, there should be a presidential and parliamentary election; new legislative assemblies should be elected in all the regions; and there should be new governors. Governors should be elected, not appointed. Eastern and southern regions insist on that.

We strongly believe this is the right way to go. In response, we are told through the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry that Russian proposals are a provocation and that we are meddling in Ukraine’s internal affairs, because our ideas are inconsistent with the foundations of the Ukrainian state. Which ideas? First, federalization, and, second, Russian as the second official language. I don’t see how this is inconsistent with the foundations of the Ukrainian state.

Q: Do Western partners hear these proposals?

SL: They do. I can tell you that “federalization” is definitely no longer a taboo word in our talks. I really believe we should insist on it – not because it is our whim but because southern and eastern regions want that.

Q: Do you expect that these ideas will eventually reach Kiev, at least through Western capitals?

SL: That’s what I count on, because the current Ukrainian government can hardly be suspected of being independent.

‘Ukraine’s military neutrality must be stated unambiguously’

Q: Do Moscow and, say, Washington talk about Ukraine’s non-bloc status?

SL: This idea is present in our proposals. We definitely think that the new constitution should clearly say that Ukraine cannot be part of any bloc.

Q: Do Americans hear that?

SL: They hear that and you can tell whether they understand it or not by listening to their public statements. Speaking in Brussels last week, President Obama said that neither Ukraine nor NATO were ready and that there was no point talking about that.

Q: By the way, Yatsenyuk says he is not considering this option at this point.

SL: “At this point.” We are convinced there can be no ambiguity on this issue. There are too many of those caveats – “at this point” and “no intention.” Intentions can change, and you end up facing new facts on the ground.

 

Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk (L) holds a new conference with NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen at the Alliance headquarters in Brussels March 6, 2014. (Reuters / Laurent Dubrule)

Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk (L) holds a new conference with NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen at the Alliance headquarters in Brussels March 6, 2014. (Reuters / Laurent Dubrule)

Q: Especially in the last couple of months.

SL: Not just in the last couple of months – in the last 25 years. We are told that the West keeps extending a hand of friendship, and Russia keeps choosing a zero-sum game. A few days ago, my colleague, British Foreign Secretary William Hague, published an article, in which he writes that Russia faces global isolation again, because, he says, you come to Russia with open arms and it turns away and pursues zero-sum mentality. But that’s totally unfair. On the contrary, we are always eager to engage in fair partnership. This is reflected in our proposals on indivisible security, which should be the same for everybody. It is wrong for NATO members to be protected with indivisible security and for everybody else to be treated as second-rate nations, so NATO can act as a magnet to attract new members and keep pushing the dividing line further to the east.

We were promised that this would not happen – and we were cheated. We were promised that NATO would not bring its military infrastructure closer to our borders – and we were cheated. We were promised there would be no military installations on the territory of the new NATO members. At first, we just listened to those promises and believed them. Then we started putting them on paper as political obligations, and serious people, Western leaders, signed those documents. But when we asked them how come those political obligations were ignored and whether we can make them legally binding, they told us, “No, political obligations are enough, and anyway, don’t worry, whatever we do is not against you.”

‘West plays ‘either-or’ game with Eastern Partnership’

SL: Speaking of zero-sum games we are being accused of, the EU Eastern Partnership project from the very beginning was based on the “either-or” concept: either you’re with us or you’re against us. Actually, our Western partners have been talking about this since the 2004 election in Ukraine. Back then, there was no Customs Union and no Eastern Partnership; there was an unconstitutional, artificially invented third round of the presidential election. Karel de Gucht, who then was the foreign minister of Belgium and who is now, by the way, the EU Trade Commissioner, publicly demanded that Ukrainians should vote and decide whether they want to be with Europe or with Russia. This is where such mentality comes from.

Eastern Partnership – as well as NATO expansion – was simply an instrument used to quickly take control over geopolitical territory. The EU was ready to push this project through at any cost. It completely ignored legitimate economic interests of both Ukraine’s neighbors, like Russia and other countries, and even the nations that were part of this program. There have been many studies on this issue. No wonder even Yatsenyuk says that Ukraine needs to take a closer look at the economic section of this agreement.

The same will happen with Moldova. They are doing their best to sign a similar agreement with Moldova this summer, before the upcoming election. And this agreement they intend to sign with Moldova – it completely ignores the issue of Transnistria. It ignores the 1997 agreement between Chisinau and Tiraspol which entitled Transnistria to international trade. It ignores what is happening with Transnistria today: Chisinau and the new Ukrainian authorities have basically blockaded the territory. But our European partners keep mum about that. In fact, the European Union and, I think, the United States approve of this policy.

We want to talk to them very seriously about that, because they are escalating tensions over Transnistria, almost claiming that it will be next. This is outrageous, provocative rhetoric. Actually, they want to create unbearable conditions for Tiraspol in violation, I repeat, of the agreements which entitled Transnistrians to certain travel, transit and trade rights. This is outrageous. They never learn. Once again, they seek to create a sore point in our relations.

‘Russia has no intention to send troops across Ukrainian border’

Q: Almost all the statements regarding sanctions, including those made by the EU and the US official political institutions, contain the phrase “further escalation.” By “further escalation” my Western colleagues mean that Russian military forces may cross the borders of the mainland Ukraine and move toward Kharkov, for example. Will this happen or not?

SL: President of Russia Vladimir Putin in his address given on March 18 in the Georgievsky Hall said clearly that we are very concerned with the situation with Russians and Russian speakers in eastern and southern Ukraine, especially after various Right Sector groups, a certain Beletsky and the Eastern Front rushed there. Those are absolutely odious people. You don’t need to be a physiognomist to be able to tell what their intentions are. They speak openly about that. Many leaked phone calls indicate how Russians will be treated in Ukraine not just by the Right Sector members.

The Russian president demanded that Ukrainian authorities and their Western patrons take immediate action to stop the violence. He said we are going to protect the rights of Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine using all the political, diplomatic and legal methods. I have nothing to add to that.

 

Soldiers of the separate tank battalion of the Baltic Fleet motorized infantry brigade, during loading of tanks on flatcars, for dislocation to the district selected for military exercises, in the city of Gusev, Kaliningrad Region on February 28, 2014. (RIA Novosti / Igor Zarembo)

Soldiers of the separate tank battalion of the Baltic Fleet motorized infantry brigade, during loading of tanks on flatcars, for dislocation to the district selected for military exercises, in the city of Gusev, Kaliningrad Region on February 28, 2014. (RIA Novosti / Igor Zarembo)

We need to be honest. You cannot just say like many times before – regarding Syria, Iran, etc. – that we have come to a crisis and that we just need to accept the reality. Russia is to settle the Syrian crisis, to solve the Iranian problem and to resolve the situation in Ukraine through direct talks with the Ukrainian authorities. The West is consistently trying to avoid the responsibility of dealing with those whom they nurtured and continue to support for their geopolitical purposes.

We have absolutely no intentions of crossing Ukrainian borders. This is not in our interests. We simply want everybody to work together; we want the violence to stop and we want the Western countries who are trying to sweep under the rug those cases of violence and to portray the situation in Ukraine in a positive light to realize they need to bear the responsibility.

According to Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, the Ukrainian authorities lately have been trying to disarm all those who possess firearms illegally – that is, the criminals. If this is the result of our Western partners’ efforts, then, I repeat, we are satisfied with that. We are ready to continue to work out joint recommendations for the Ukrainians to stop all the lawlessness and to start a deep constitutional process to reform their country.

‘No US-style naval bases build-up planned’

Q: There are speculations that Russia may respond to all these events by setting up its military bases in the Seychelles, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba and even in Argentina.

SL: This is a complete lie. We have no plans whatsoever to build naval and military bases abroad in the sense which you put into the term. The Russian Navy is now much stronger than before. I believe after Crimea joined Russia, it will have much more opportunities for development. Along with the Black Sea Fleet, we also have the Pacific, the Northern Fleet, etc.

It’s very important for a country to have highly trained Navy, especially because today the Navy has not just to plough the ocean for training purposes but also to complete specific tasks like counter-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden and elsewhere. Ships have to travel to remote places. We have agreements with some countries allowing our vessels and warships to use their existing infrastructure for servicing, minor repairs, water and food replenishments and for the crew to rest.

We are absolutely not considering building bases similar to how America does it. And of course, unlike the US, we will not have any agreements, which would make our personnel immune to criminal prosecution in the countries where they are deployed.

By the way, I recently saw an interesting picture on the Internet: a map of the Russian Federation and US military bases around it. It looks very impressive. There are over a hundred of them. And there is a quote from a US soldier: “How dare Russians be so close to our bases?”

Q: Are you talking to the countries I mentioned about the possibility of our warships entering their seaports?

SL: There are a few countries we are talking to but these issues are handled by defense ministries.

 

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Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:06 | 4607544 stant
stant's picture

warren pollock gave the heads up about the ukrain couple years ago

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:18 | 4607555 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

We are told that the West keeps extending a hand of friendship, and Russia keeps choosing a zero-sum game. A few days ago, my colleague, British Foreign Secretary William Hague, published an article, in which he writes that Russia faces global isolation again, because, he says, you come to Russia with open arms and it turns away and pursues zero-sum mentality. But that’s totally unfair. On the contrary, we are always eager to engage in fair partnership. 

True of Russia, Banana Republics in General and govenment in general.  Says a lot about why progress is so rare in the world today.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:28 | 4607569 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

russian propagandas are truthier than american propagandas

hugs,
max-n-stacy 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:21 | 4607659 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

I don't trust a word of what Obama and Kerry are saying about Ukraine. I don't trust a word of what they say about anything else, either. When it comes to international affairs, everything Obama has touched has turned to shit.

Forward (over the cliff)!

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:04 | 4607759 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Why listen to words when the picture of the guys with their faces covered says everything you need to know. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:47 | 4607847 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

"We are absolutely not considering building bases similar to how America does it. And of course, unlike the US, we will not have any agreements, which would make our personnel immune to criminal prosecution in the countries where they are deployed."

This is correct.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:01 | 4607878 Dollarmedes
Dollarmedes's picture

Obama, Putin, Kerry, Lavrov, etc.

They're ALL liars. Nothing any one of them says is automatically believable or discredited since all great lies have a grain of truth in them. You have to sort through a mountain of bullshit to find that grain, though.

Don't trust any of them. Think for yourself.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:03 | 4607994 weburke
weburke's picture

think there is a grain of truth in there? displays of power tell enough tales fer me.....right now there is a spinning thing around DC that makes no meteorological sense. The great unwatched show, fighting slow water effects with air......huh?? Men with that kind of power have no audience applauding, or shaking fists.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:22 | 4608208 ndotken
ndotken's picture

The only people that like the US Government are the oligarchs and the mooches that suck the tit of it.  Most people in the world like Americans ... but they hate our government ... just like the majority of  Americans do

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:57 | 4608553 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Russia should step up to the plate and offer the world an alternative to Swiss (and other various off shore) money havens.   To do this, a country has to have an iron clad repution for trust.   Okay, the Russian's aren't there yet...and neither are the Chinese.  But it's a goal they commit to incrementally.  One success at a time.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:06 | 4608741 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

listening to the tone and tenor of this interview, russia seems quite diplomatic and restrained - self interested, sure, isnt everyone

but then when you listen to american 'diplomats' - by comparison - they are lunatics bent on provocation. They let no lie go untold.

what on earth makes the current american political and cultural climate so irrevocably belligerent? Its like they think agression is the only choice that ever generates success, like the notion of co-operation in any endeavour is inferior and worthy of contempt

that surely is the foundation and definition of evil in its base human pragmatic (non-ideological) sense

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 23:06 | 4609414 jtg
jtg's picture

The American people are getting the government they deserve. The US government, its stupidity and mendacity, reflects what the American people are.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 22:01 | 4609232 August
August's picture

I had lunch today with an Iraqi doctor (Muslim) who still has family in the old country.  I was commenting that I might like to visit, but was concerned re my US passport;  he responded that Americans were welcome in the area.  "Saddam was not Iraq, and the US government is not America.  Saddam destroyed Iraq, and the Americans came and burned down the ruins."

I'd like to think that the above perception was wideapread outside the USA, but I'd personally find it a challenge not to hate the citizens of a country which had just destroyed my own society.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:32 | 4608376 tempo
tempo's picture

left wing teacher union thugs.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:54 | 4607986 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

And oddly, it is Putin who has benefited at so many of Obama's turns.  They are on the same team.  Their team doesn't include you and me.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:30 | 4608368 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

Sad thing is, the world was so much better off with Hillary running State. We'll all know the petro-ruble is real when the Nigerian bank examiner scam starts sending out emails asking for rubles to be sent to them to enable bank audits.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 23:02 | 4609397 jtg
jtg's picture

Did you forget that Hillary brought in Victoria Nuland into the State Dept to run the agenda on Ukraine? She also has her fingerprints on the bombing of Yugoslavia and Libya, me she rot in hell (some day).

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:46 | 4608104 nelsonmandella
nelsonmandella's picture

and african comunistists are happier than asian comuninists 

 

now   

 

who do you work for again ?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:11 | 4608176 daveO
daveO's picture

Because it's their gas and oil.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:43 | 4608441 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

If anyone believes propaganda was always false, then he already is believing, that he was not being fed with propaganda and has already been trapped.

So you are on the path to more wisdom.

You need to understand: ONLY propaganda exists. Nothing else!

The decisive question is, if it is true or false - and not if the obvious, that propaganda is made, is openly admitted or, if it is camouflaged as "objective information". In fact the latter is more dangerous.

If you listen to RT, you listen to it with the expectation in mind to hear the Russian perspective. Which is GOOD that you expect that! It enhances your understanding of what is presented, it sharpens your mind while you listen!

But the sheeple consuming western mainstream media for twohundred years have been believing to be informed objectively! The machanism of scepticism is destroyed with the believe in a free press! It is the greatest propaganda trick ever!

The Plutocrats ridiculed this exceptional honesty and political education of the German people by their Nazi PROPAGANDA MINISTER Dr. Goebbels, when he explained to the Germans, that ofcourse they were making propaganda to achieve certain goals (they did even call him that way!) and that the myth of free press was nothing but a lie and a free press never had existed!

Is it only coincidence that those who invented the lie of a "free press", the Plutocracies, have no war ministers, but only DEFENSE ministers these days... Or that they are calling themselfes Democracies, while they in fact are Plutocracies?

 

But if everything is propaganda, how can we, als individuals, ever discover the truth?

The same way as any judge tries to find it! No judge will ever believe, that the parties were telling him the truth, he always must accept, that each party presents it's case in the best possible way. A judge therefore also knows, that only propaganda exists. So how can he find out, what could be the truth if?

AUDIATUR ET ALTERA PARS.

That's the key to truth if something like that even exists. And not the sheeple's naive belive in a truly "free press"! I'm wondering how many libertarians have ever understood it, that a free press has NEVER existed and is only a lie? How many have ever understood that the principle of audiatur et altera pars is the method to come closer to the truth and not by believing this or that more "free" newspapers or media outlets!

How many are reading ZH in the believe, it was not propaganda and telling them the truth instead to understand, that it represents often THE OTHER SIDE?

Listen to the AUTHENTIC arguments of BOTH sides and when you have the problem for each side understood and sufficient arguments insepected, it is possible that you will be able to find out, which side has the better arguments, or maybe you will even discover which side is lying.

 

Listen to the Lawrow interview and listen to what Kerry says. Ups!

Listen to Putin's interviews (NOT what they tell you about it!) and listen to Obama's interviews or speeches.

And you will easily discover who is the liar.

 

But be warned: if you begin to apply this to all the taboos they have erected to hinder you from looking what the AUTHENTIC arguments of the other side are, then everything you have believed in, sooner or later, will collapse. But which is the first prerequisite to overcome your enslavement...

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:32 | 4607577 EatYourCornTake...
EatYourCornTakeyourPill's picture

No intentions of invasion yet the troops keep mounting up at the border. Not a cheap tourist expedition that is.

I found it funny that Lavrov considers abstentions as votes in their favor, whereas countries are probably just trying to stay out of it.

To think that I used to take RT as a serious news source. I guess there is no such thing as news. We have to get our info from different blogs and then make up our own minds. Unfortunate.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:29 | 4607676 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Interesting that in the past few weeks, up until annexation, at no time has Russia exceeded its post-USSR breakup agreed 25k military personnel on the Crimean peninsula. Yet to watch the MSM you would think they had invaded en masse.

The same applies on the border with Ukraine. A fact which the NATO dick-in-chief tacitly acknowledged at a briefing last week, while at the same time trying to convince the world they were preparing for an invasion. Man's a cunt. On a string.

Taking RT too seriously? RT is a propaganda station with some good programmes. Name one western MSM outlet not under the control of the US government. Judging by the coverage of Syria and Ukraine, editorial and journallistic integrity in the west is in the sewer - probably because no one wants to be another Max Hastings.

 

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:36 | 4607956 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Geez, how much common sense does it take to understand everyone is going to support their own agenda?

I do not think at this point in time that the Russian Federation maintains the ultra-strict type of media controls it did under the old USSR. That form of control is now used in the USSA.

Use Voltaire net, RT, Asia Times, etc. Also peruse blogs. Go to Times of India, El Pais (english version if you do not read Spanish). Granma is superb for your basic Cuban socialist party line. Just because I do not agree with their ideology does not mean there are gems of truth to be found.

I just realized I cannot remember the last time I watched any US network news or cable news. I do scan the NYT as they are the Pravda of the current regime, so as to get the Regime's Party Line.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:01 | 4608150 Starkiller
Starkiller's picture

Sorry man, but El Pais is even more controlled by OTAN lackeys than FOX or WSJ. Is not about ideology, they are just bougth. And cheaply.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:00 | 4608294 11b40
11b40's picture

The point is, don't trust any of them and pick up info from a wide variety of sources.

Yes, everyone talks their own book, even here.  Do your own due diligence is something we know sould be SOP for stocks.  Now it should be SOP for news, too.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:59 | 4608560 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Geez, how much common sense does it take to understand everyone is going to support their own agenda?

If you look how many believe in "free press", and do not know that it never has existed anywhere and is nothing but a lie then you have your answer.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:51 | 4607859 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Of course they will tend to support Russian Federation outlook.

But, they seem to have more useful information, while US MSM only sucks the Black Queen's cock.

"Bill O'Reilly here. I just did another interview with Bath House, and I must assure you, he is as hard as ever! Check out this nifty Presidential ball point pen he gave me!"

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:40 | 4608093 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Except that "hand of friendship" comes with US militaty presence, a Rothschild Central Bank, debt, and a depletion of the country's natural resources; until they become like Detroit and then there is no further interest.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:15 | 4608184 daveO
daveO's picture

It's the freshly squeezed treatment. We squeeze their orange dry and hand the dry peel back to them.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:50 | 4608427 dcohen
dcohen's picture

It is a nuclear banana, and it can blow the heads off the neocons.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:07 | 4607546 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

Rubes versus rubles. This is how the world ends?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:18 | 4608198 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

This is not a plug for Greg Hunter, but he did have two very recent interviews that help us with keeping global perspective and helps us put the Ukraine/Crimea crisis as the latest example of US Hegemony and the emminent demise (built-in self-destruction of its monetary system):

1. James Rickards-Dollar Going to Collapse 80% or 90% or More

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCsm5m89SVM    

2. Brandon Smith-U.S. Debt Will Explode in 2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgX_LvwXCqs

Obama, his handlers and Fed's Owners (GS, JPM, Citi, BAC, WF... and its key owners), the MIC and all the US, EU and ME beneficiaries (Egypt, Israel, KSA) of the Fed and the MIC, know that The End is nearing for their fiat-debt currency/monetary system. 

They are merely trying to buy more time, while jockeying for 'position'.  'Position' in max land grabs, asset & resource grabs, and debt-as-slavery (free labor) grabs.  The parties with the most of each, ends up coming out the strongest and richest after the Big Reset -- to hopefully rule the world, or most of its natural and demographic wealth.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:07 | 4607547 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

Zbig gave it up 17 years ago...... 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:08 | 4607548 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Those poor bastards tank crews don't have a chance against an Abrams or a Challenger with modern armor plating.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:31 | 4607574 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Shermans didn't have a chance against much better NAZI tanks in WW2... but the Shermans prevailed... 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:40 | 4607588 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

The Shermans were in fact, death traps.  One of the still under reported scandals of the war.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:09 | 4607633 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

1850 Tiger tanks MKI & II's built against 50000 Shermans. The kill ratio was approx 10:1 so the Sherman could afford to be shit. Allied tank crews used to shit themselves if they so much as got a whiff of a Tiger. Who wouldn't.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:44 | 4607713 optimator
optimator's picture

Ronson Lighters.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:06 | 4607765 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

That could probably be said for any tank. Anyway, war is a death trap. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:48 | 4607853 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

We who were infantry like tanx.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:35 | 4608072 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Not really. Sherman tanks ran on gas, German tanks ran on diesel. The first German round to hit a Sherman would turn it into spam in a can. Thus the odds. Obviously the Yanks and their tanks were expendible. Same as it always was. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:14 | 4608320 agent default
agent default's picture

German tanks mostly used the Maybach HL230 V12 which is a gasoline engine. Only the Russians used Diesel engines in their tanks. 

The main problem with the Sherman was that it was seriously under gunned due to Pentagon turf wars.  The story of the Sherman tank's armament is a good example of how expendable high brass considers their troops to be.  Those involved with the armament of the Sherman should have been hanged.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:15 | 4608756 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

pentagon turf wars?

what, George w.'s grampappy Prescott only let the heavy duty stuff go to his german subsidiaries? sounds rite

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:43 | 4607706 optimator
optimator's picture

But those DEMOCRAT Shermans outnumbered them and with tactical air support eventually wore them down.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:32 | 4607575 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Maybe the A10 Warthogs will be able to show their worth and survive the budget cuts.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:43 | 4607592 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Damn fine tank killers, no doubt, but the world moves on.

I am one of the least techy in these parts, but I can't help thinking about what you can do to tanks with shoulder fired rockets.  Probably get most of what you need from radio shack.

Everyone seems to think Ukraine will get whooped.  They thought that about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, too.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:40 | 4607694 optimator
optimator's picture

The Merkava was considered one of the worlds best tanks.  Last time they rolled into Lebanon for training what was left of them were towed out.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:10 | 4608014 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Correct, you are not that techy, as you failed to observe what is in PLAIN SIGHT:  ACTIVE ARMOR on the tanks.

Your shoulder-fired crap will mean jack shit.  FYI.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:57 | 4608554 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

how many times can you hit the same spot on a tank with active armor, and the active armor still works?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 21:29 | 4609143 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Tanks, by definition, move around.  How easy is it to hit a moving target at exactly the same point more than once?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:16 | 4607771 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

The A10 Warthog is entirely dependent upon U.S. air cover and dominance from above the battle field.

You are assuming that Russia's air power is as nonexistent as that of Iraq. I hope our generals are not quite so naive.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:34 | 4608070 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

and you're assuming the USA is actually on Europe's side.

the President did not show up in Kiev...that's a greenlight in my book.

once Beirut gets flattened Tel Aviv will be next.
no, that's not a red line either.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:22 | 4608773 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea but before that, cal will fall into the sea.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:36 | 4608795 silvermail
silvermail's picture

It does not matter what kind of tanks and what guns. Without total control of the air, the U.S. Army is unfit for action and useless piece of shit.
Give me the old RPG-7 and I will destroy any tank in the world that would be at a distance of defeat. You do not help night vision and thermal imaging even. I will destroy any tank, along with all his tools and equipment. You'll see me only two seconds before the shot.

I do not mean a sudden shot from shelter in urban fighting. I mean an open field where there is no line of sight restrictions. Availability drone directly above me, also does not save your tank from destruction.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:36 | 4608083 Keyser
Keyser's picture

This isn't a video game just in case you forgot. Oh, and this time, both sides have enough nukes to destroy the world 1000 times over. So, we have that going for us. Right?

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:51 | 4607603 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"Those poor bastards tank crews don't have a chance against an Abrams or a Challenger with modern armor plating"

And Abrams and Challengers won't matter, because if it gets to the point that they are actually in use against Russian tanks, Washington and lots of other American cities will be ashes.   There won't be such a thing as just a conventional war here. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:08 | 4607640 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"American cities will be ashes"

glass and ash.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:00 | 4607940 ATG
ATG's picture

Logistics

Closest superior tank is Leopard 2A7 in Germany, not in production.

(House of Saud ordered 200 from Germany.)

Next best the South Korea K2 Black Panther.

#3 is the M1 Abram and its variants.

Last year the US withdrew 22 M1A1 Abrams Tanks from Germany. That was seen as the end of an era, as tanks were a fixture on American bases in Europe since landing at Omaha Beach in 1944. 

On Friday 31 January 2014, the last of 29 M1A2 SEPv2 Abrams tanks were offloaded at the railhead at the Grafenwöhr training facilities in Eastern Bavaria, Germany.

These heavily armored vehicles are upgraded versions of the older Abrams that left 10 months ago and became part of what the Joint Multinational Training Command at Grafenwöhr is calling the European Activity Set.

The Abrams tanks joined 33 M2A3 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles and dozens of other heavy support vehicles positioned at Grafenwöhr.

They wree scheduled for three major exercises from France to Latvia (to Ukraine?) this year:

http://1.usa.gov/1dFMtrI

Unless Putin and his generals are stupid, the Russians have these armoured vehicles dialed in on their new hypersonic mobile missile launchers, also perhaps aimed at Israel and Turkey.

http://1.usa.gov/1dFMtrI

The M1 Abrams quieter Turbine that burns JP-8 is heavy and thirsty, 10 gallons to start, 1.67 gallons per mile and 60 gallons per hour, with a range of 205 miles, creating more logistal issues.

The M1 Abrams can be delivered by a C-5 Galaxy or a C-17 Globemaster III. The limited capacity (two combat-ready in a C-5, one combat-ready tank in a C-17) caused serious logistical problems deploying the tanks for the first Persian Gulf War. Logistics delayed the start of Desert Storm for 1,848 tanks to be transported by ship, train and truck:

http://bit.ly/1lfmcAe

Tank deployment movements showed up on Youtube:

http://bit.ly/PbAIxz 

The next closest MI Abrams fleets in size on record to Ukraine are 1005 in Egypt, 200 more on order, whoops for the Muslim Brotherhood, who took rocks and sticks to a tank fight.

M1 Abrams are armoured by depleyted uranium, 1.7 times more dense than lead, with a 4.5 B year half-life and radioactive, reproductive, toxic issues, especially when aerosolized into an incendiary device on impact in combat and inhaled or sent around the world like Fukushima:

http://bit.ly/1mD8qKr.

(Why else did elite Iraqi Republican Guard flee their tank death traps and surrender after their ammunitions could not penetrate the DU Abrams and DU projectiles cremated their ranks in tanks?)

Military tell their troops exposed to DU 1/1000 risk. WHO states no reproductive, developmental, or carcinogenic effects were reported in humans due to DU exposure:

http://bit.ly/1rTMPyz

In a country of 320 M, 1/1000 is 320,000 casualties of DU wars.

Ask Hawaiians and other dirty DU military sites in the US where people pee uranium urine and don't feel right.

Ask Afghani's, Iraqi's, and Yugoslavians, whose pictures of a skyrocketing rate of birth defects and cancers are grotesque:

http://bit.ly/1pExXA1

War is hell.

We American people are ready for peace and prosperity:

http://bit.ly/P6SHpc

 

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:01 | 4607998 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

I thought I read somewhere, that a mixture of Tide laundry soap and gas was all it took to stop a tank in its tracks.  Light it up and drop a flaming mixture of that on the air intake sounds about right to decommision a tank.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:12 | 4608021 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Scotty, Spock has two words he's like you to ponder regarding those Russian tanks:  ACTIVE ARMOR.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:58 | 4608557 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

tandem charge > reactive armor

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:59 | 4608562 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

washington?   ashes?   is that a bad thing?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:46 | 4607844 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

You obviously do not know how Russians fight.

Also, they are not the Libyan Army.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:35 | 4608080 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

again...you're assuming there's gonna be a fight.
my view is that the Russians will walk right in there...probably using American tanks actually.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:30 | 4607943 beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

This is Russian reactive armour.

 

Seems to work OK.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpmcmKwWzYo

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:46 | 4608414 ebear
ebear's picture

Kewl!

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:55 | 4608284 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The Abrams and Challenger tanks will be idling or gathering dust somewhere; they won't roll them into Ukraine.

The T-90's have combined composite armor and explosive reactive armor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:54 | 4608432 dcohen
dcohen's picture

Like the mighty Israeli merkava tanks that a few ragtag Hezbollah guerilla  fighters mauled.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 18:23 | 4608636 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You're completely and totally wrong; and there's no excuse for it; as the information is readily available. "Modern armor plating"; what childish drivel.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:13 | 4608752 silvermail
silvermail's picture

1. RPG-7 release in 1960, makes of Abrams a heap of scrap metal.
2. New Russian RPG destroy Ambrams through the frontal armor of double power reserve.
3. Abramas has no chance of escape, in a duel against T90.
Abrams can not destroy the T90 at a distance of over 2 km. But T90, guaranteed to destroy  Ambrams at a distance of 4 km. Because gun of T90 fires anti-tank missiles with a range of 5 km defeat.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:08 | 4607549 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

The Russians are good at the word game and not afraid to say whatever they like. Interesting to watch is the concordance of the words and actions, and mindset (of both sides) telegraphed overall. With global tensions heating up among the big powers, it is easier and easier to intuit real motivations.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:16 | 4607553 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

usa maggots can never be trusted. they will keep exploiting, encroaching, spying, stealing, lying, bullying, thieving and will never stop. the only thing that gives them pause at all is a credible nuclear retaliation. even then they relish the cold war. china, i could give two fucks about china. they've been waging a trade and spy war for decades. russia on the other hand tried to play nice with the west and just got fucked harder at every turn. it's a damn shame really because the average american and average russian get along fine but there's no profit in that for the maggots so they will have none of it. no peace dividend for you! [/soup nazi]

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:32 | 4607576 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Very true.  Glad you mentioned about ordinary Americans as these reprehensible measures you refer to are the work of the shadowy Real Permanent Government, not the American people.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:29 | 4608231 Starkiller
Starkiller's picture

Well, most of the peoples of the world (even your associates... hell, probably mostly your associates) really, really hates what USA has become and represents; but at the same time, understands most of the common american people. Your nation comes from a great foundation, and even if that have been also greatly corrupted, it still shows sometimes in their people.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:37 | 4607581 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Excellent observations Buzz99...

Russia has also ordered all Ukraine land military hardware returned to Western Ukraine but I have seen nothing about that in the western msm...

"President Vladimir Putin has ordered all weapons and hardware left by the Ukrainian military after Crimea’s accession to Russia to be returned to Ukraine.

The Russian President, who is also the commander-in-chief of the military forces, gave the order to Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu at a rank-conferring ceremony in Moscow on Friday. The order concerns weapons, and military hardware including aircraft and ships."... much more with photos at RT site...

http://rt.com/politics/putin-weapons-military-crimea-909/

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:00 | 4607596 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Great point.

Speaks volumes about the real intentions, or lack there of.

Back to Sitz krieg.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:43 | 4607833 ATG
ATG's picture

Meantime, Obamanation armed Russians with free High Tech US war materiel government welfare AFTER "Sanctions"

http://bit.ly/1fCLjZ6

 

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:27 | 4607931 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

If you want to get some information, peruse the various photos online showing the various soldiers with no rank/unit patch/flag in Crimea. They are fielding numerous types of small-arms devices illegal to export from Team America.

The wily Russkiies have found a way to obtain these devices/equipment outside of export restrictions. The soldiers appear to be the Speznaz variety or another professional Russian unit.

Interesting.
**********
Also, that link is to some kind of neo-con site. The author refers to the "Russian Invasion" of Crimea/Ukraine. The author is either ignorant of the troop-level agreement concerning Crimea or is misleading people.

Either way, the laser system should not be availabe to anyone but US Army.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:03 | 4607628 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And yhey aint the enemy. Can u say arrogant narcissists lying ikkegal alien kenyan muslim sociopathic ignoramus fudge packer in chief and its minions.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:05 | 4607763 Whatchamacallit
Whatchamacallit's picture

... yeah ... they started by wiping out the natives, stealing everything, and drawing treaties which they broke one after another ... so it's a matter of habit with them.

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:58 | 4607870 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Obama admin neocons are talking about a nuclear war being winnable.

The keep touting war. Banksters think they can make a lot of money off it.

We have insane people now in control of the Fed and the US military. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:18 | 4608035 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Buzzsaw, what you call Maggots, Kirk calls Clingons.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 02:28 | 4609737 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

114 up for Buzzsaw's comment?  I'm sorry, that's bizarre.  

Russia, China, they're very different in some ways but they are both formerly-communist countries that were taken over by the kleptocrats.   Each in its own way has kept some ot the gains of its revolution.  In China's case they took over the whole Communist Party, turning it into a tool of their capitalist state. In Russia the Party has been relegatied to the role of "loyal opposition".  Most importantly both Russia and China still have a state-owned central bank  - and as a consequence neither has lost its independence to the bankers yet.  

And they're both targeted for rendering by the Empire.

I'm rooting for them to make it for the same reason I'm rooting for Venezuela and Brazil.  Not because I think they're the greatest but because they are the front line of the gathering last stand of humanity against the Empire.

I'm more hopeful that Putin's Russia will be able to ward off the Empire's next assault and survive the next phase of the world financial collapse, but it makes no sense to root for Russia and not for China.  If either of them falls to the Empire the strategic position of the other is severely, probably fatally compromised. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:14 | 4607554 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Over a month ago I raised the issue of the Right Sector and the necessity to dissociate from the radical forces with our Western partners. I asked them a very simple question: “If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?” Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle. US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote.

Same to a degree goes for the Svoboda party, whose platform references The Declaration of June 30, 1941, which expressed support of Nazi Germany and its efforts to establish a new world order. According to the party’s charter, it’s still committed to this principle. US Secretary of State John Kerry told me that after close scrutiny they concluded that the Right Sector was trying to become a political movement. The subtext was that it’s a good thing, and Svoboda is moving towards [the] mainstream. That’s a quote.

...

Take that logic of John Kerry and apply it to the KKK as a political party analog to Svoboda and groups like Aryan Brotherhood as an analog to the Right Sector........

Would anyone in their right minds vote for that regardless of directions.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:29 | 4607570 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

In the forties and fifties, democrats were the party of extreme segregation and misogyny laws.  Shit happens.

I think you have to see this in the context that Joe Stalin murdered half of the Ukrainian population.  These two sides won't play nice with each other.  Very dangerous history, and present.

 

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:48 | 4607721 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

The Democrats aren't, never were and never will be a political party in the sense that other countries have political parties.  Not as long as we are locked into the cureent two-party system by rigged winner-take-all elections supervised by partisan commissions within districts defined for political advantage.

The Democratic Party, and the Republican Party, are forced marriages of a broad spectrum of political factions and tendencies, each representing competing and often antagonistic constituencies.  They are playing fields on which these factions fight out their differences before taking their battles to a grand showdown.  The situation has clarified with the realignment of the past half century into parties reflecting real left-right differences due to the Dixiecrats bolting to the Republican Party in the years following the Civil Rights Act. 

But even so, how do you even talk about "The Democrats" when you have a party that spans a spectrum from Nancy Pelosi to Barbara Lee, John Kerry to John Conyers, Barack Obama to Raul Grijalva?  Given an electoral system that supported multiple parties - i.e. given the electoral system of "any other" democracy on earth (granting for argument's sake that the US can be included in that category) - the Democratic Party would fly apart in a minute. As would "the Republicans" for that matter.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:35 | 4607822 ATG
ATG's picture

There is only one party controlled and funded by oligarchs and their debt fiat usury bankers.

Call it Demican, Republicrat, there is ony one party.

Washington's Farewell address warned against the tyranny of political party.

There is one better independent majority alternative in 2014:

http://bit.ly/P6SHpc

 

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:02 | 4607755 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Stalin was a bolshevik and furthermore, he wasn't even Russian.

The least Russia wants is its nearest neighbour (in terms culture, language and common history) being turned into an enemy. Hence the tolerance against Kiev's zionazi thugs, a.k.a. the side that won't play nice with Russia - the descendants of Stepan Bandera and SS Galicia.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:22 | 4607790 ATG
ATG's picture

Not to forget the award 52 M genocidal abortion mill taxpayer mandate funded Planned Parenthood just gave to Nancy Pelosi.

http://bit.ly/1n8FKoF

PP of course founded by KKK Eugenicist Margaret Sanger

http://margaretsanger.blogspot.com/

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:14 | 4607904 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

In the forties and fifties, democrats were the party of extreme segregation and misogyny laws.  Shit happens.

 

Absolutely correct. While in many respects there are few differences between the R's and D's, slavery in its many forms has always been the province of the Democrats.  

It was Democrats who instituted many decades of horror for blacks through the Supreme Court decision, Plessy vs Ferguson in 1896, which established segregation through "separate but equal".  The Supreme Court voted 7 (Democrats) to 1 (Republican -Justice Harlan, a former Democrat). Democrats continue their divide and conquer tactics of preferences, set-asides, protected groups, and quotas, all in pursuit of their plantation philosophy. 

 

Okay, now vote me down.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:13 | 4608025 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I'm for voluntary association.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 15:04 | 4608159 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Agreed. Look at people as individuals instead of groups to be exploited for financial or political gain.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:36 | 4607580 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Everybody refers to the support given to Nazi Germany by the 'extreme right'.  But in the context this was not unreasonable.  Ukraine had suffered horrifically less than ten years earlier where millions died of hunger and disease in a deliberate program run by Kaganovich.  I'm not saying they were or are right but if you ask who was worse for Ukraine I'd say the USSR rather than the Germans, especially at that time. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:46 | 4607594 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Endless arguments can be made about why Stalin let the Ukranians starve...

For instance; "Stalin's 5 year plan was poorly implemented (as most central planning usually is) and not enough grain was being produced for both the USSR city workers (factory workers) and Ukranian farmers. So, Stalin feared civil unrest in the cities more than he feared starving farmers. Iows, he was faced with 2 bad choices and he chose to let the farmers starve.

It is also certainly true that Stalin had no love for the Western Ukranians that had taken up arms with the NAZIS against the USSR during WW2.

Put yourself in Stalin's shoes. Who would you have let starve?

BTW, I am not a fan of Stalin but if we are to discuss history let's try to get it right.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:50 | 4607599 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes, let's get the history right.

Stalin starved them deliberately, at gun point,  in the thirties, before the war.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:02 | 4607625 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Yes, Stalin starved 'them' in the 30s, prior to WW2 but the reason I expressed above is correct.

Stalin was faced with starving factory workers or farmers.

Was Stalin going to starve the factory workers who were busy building outmoded military equipment  and crappy farm tractors... or the farmers?

Stalin was learning too. He was learning that 5 yr plans sucked and that he had fought his way to the top of a crappy system of governence.

But, like most politicians that get to the top he went with the system that maintaind his power.

Human nature... it's the same everywhere.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:10 | 4607646 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

The Holodomor (Ukrainian: ?????????, "Extermination by hunger" or "Hunger-extermination";[2] derived from '?????? ???????', "Killing by Starvation" [3][4][5]) was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1932 and 1933 that killed up to 7.5 million Ukrainians.[6] During the famine, which is also known as the "Terror-Famine in Ukraine" and "Famine-Genocide in Ukraine",[7][8][9] millions of citizens of Ukrainian SSR, the majority of whom were Ukrainians, died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[10] Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by the independent Ukraine and several other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people.[11]

 

Human nature, to murder millions of people?  You have a worse opinion of humans than I do.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:41 | 4607696 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Well Joey thought that killing off all the Kulaks and collectivising the farms was a good way to Sovietize the masses.

Oops.

Apparently picking beets and running an efficient farming operations were skillsets not in possession by city bred loyal party apparatchiks.

Zimbabwe on steroids.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:43 | 4607707 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Human nature, to murder millions of people?  You have a worse opinion of humans than I do."

BTW, I did not give you any neg votes and enjoy any discussion of history. I respect your opinion.

I probably do have a 'Worse opinion of humans than you'. The entire recorded history of human existance on this earth is a continuous slaughter of individuals and entire populations. Start with Genghis Khan or Alexander or the Romans or Hitler or at any point in history that you prefer and what do you see? Slaughter brought on by a few individuals that were/are sociopaths and led their followers to battle. As if sociopathic warriors were not enough we are also afflicted with the Jim Joneses that lead some fools to mass suicides. 

One of the most effective US General officers of the US Army once made the observation: "All other forms of human endeavor pale in comparison to war".

In light of the history available, why should my opinion of humans be higher? Why should I have respect for ~ 7 billion sheep willingly led by a few shearers?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:14 | 4607779 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I like Sherman's version.  Watching a column of his troops march by:

  "It is good that war is so horrible, otherwise we would grow too fond of it."

Good catch on the return of weapons.  If that's true it puts a whole new stink on things;)

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:41 | 4607834 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

George Patton...

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:44 | 4608101 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

No Cold War if you listen to Patton.
No World War II if you listen to General Pershing.

Now we have trillion dollar deficits and no military to fight with.
Now lets start the devaluation and worry about The Landslide later.
Everyone already knows who disappeared the triple 7.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 19:24 | 4608785 negative rates
negative rates's picture

A failed space shuttle attempt maybe?

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:44 | 4608408 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

kaiserhoff...hate to disagree, but it was R.E. Lee who said that...at Fredricksburg. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:28 | 4607797 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The Russians insist it was not genocide. They didn't starve those farmers because they were Kulaks, they starved those Kulaks because they were farmers. Its a subtle point - politically motivated mass murder rather than, say racial, but that is their position and they are sticking with it. They wanted Russians on the land those Kulaks were squatting on and I suppose they wanted a lot fewer Ukrainians all together, no matter what they say. It would have been kinder to round them all up and shoot them, but bullets cost money and starvation is free. It would probably be wise to remember that here in the U.S. with the road this country seems to be heading down. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:13 | 4608471 Deer Hunter
Deer Hunter's picture

That's why you never give up your guns. When the bad guys come your able to take a few with you. If 6 million Jews shoot 1 or 2 SS men it can make a difference. 40 million hunters and only about 1 million law officers in USA.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:02 | 4607756 Whatchamacallit
Whatchamacallit's picture

It was more, much more than "letting them starve." It was a heineous, deliberate decision:

 

"In 1932, Stalin demanded that Ukraine increase its grain output by 44 percent. Such a goal would have been unachievable even if the communists had not already ruined the nation's productivity by eliminating the best farmers and forcing others onto the feeble collectives. That year, not a single village was able to meet the impossible quota, which far exceeded Ukraine's best output in the pre-collective years.

Stalin then issued one of the cruelest orders of his dark career: if quotas were not met, all grain was to be confiscated. As one Soviet author much later wrote: "All the grain without exception was requisitioned for the fulfillment of the Plan, including that set aside for sowing, fodder, and even that previously issued to the kolkhozniki as payment for their work." The authorization included seizure of all food from all households. Any home that did not turn over all its grain was accused of "hoarding" state property." 

Check out "Holodomor", and also "Kaganovitch", to understand a bit better where the Right Sector and the Svoboda Party come from.

 

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:06 | 4607634 angryBuddhist
angryBuddhist's picture

Actually, the main reason for the mass starvation was NOT that there wasn't enough food. There was. Stalin was envious of the west's rapid rate of industrialization and technological superiority and he wanted to join the party but lacked the funding to do so. To this end he chose to export rather than consume the only thing that he had of value and that was the country's argicultural production in trade for the money needed to purchase western machinery, tools and equipment to jumpstart his view of an industrialized Soviet Union. This is where all the grain and food stocks went.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:48 | 4607722 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

True.

This, combined with severely reduced production, created a disaster.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:46 | 4608107 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

ooops.

on the good side he realized the Merrimac was vastly superior to the Monitor in everyway.
By far the best tank of World War II.

"quantity is a quality all its own."

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:16 | 4607782 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

angryBuddhist...

I take it that you are not aware that there were over 400 western corporations, plus western bankers, in Russia providing money and building factories in the new USSR?

Among the list are AT&T, Ford, IBM, et al...

In fact, Ford's biggest factory (at the time) was built in Russia, knicknamed GORKI, and was by 1932 producing 80-90,000 Ford vehicles per year. This was accomplished by sending US engineers and technicians to Russia.

"Soviet Fords and the Gorki[edit]

In May 1929 the Soviet Union signed an agreement with the Ford Motor Company. Under its terms, the Soviets agreed to purchase $13 million worth of automobiles and parts, while Ford agreed to give technical assistance until 1938 to construct an integrated automobile-manufacturing plant at Nizhny Novgorod. Many American engineers and skilled auto workers moved to the Soviet Union to work on the plant and its production lines, which was namedGorkovsky Avtomobilny Zavod (GAZ), or Gorki Automotive Plant in 1932."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ford_Motor_Company

I seriously doubt that Ford and all the other US corporations and bankers were in Russia for some wheat from the Ukraine... The US, like Germany, was more interested in Russia's vast quantities of hard commodities... ores, gas, oil, etc.

On the day Hitler's tanks and troops attacked the USSR train loads of Russian raw commodities were still rolling into Germany... a fact that made Hitler and his cronies laugh. 

"Sherer: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:35 | 4607816 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

True, but this didn't stop Henry Ford and other US corporate leaders (incuding Prescott Bush) from throwing their weight behind Hitler!

Warning to Putin:  Beware corporate criminals bearing gifts!

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:48 | 4607851 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Prescott worked for Brown Bros Harriman

Money was funneled through Belgium to Germany during WW2.

Bankers only loyalty is to profits... though they call it 'fiduciary responsibility'... lol

and, as Greenspan so famously noted: 'during extremis only gold will be accepted as payment'... meaning that if a country is getting it's azz kicked in a war they better have gold to buy stuff.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:11 | 4607736 ATG
ATG's picture

PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk's party is 'Fatherland.'

AY tried to ban Russian as an official language in the Ukraine although his wife mostly speaks it.

AY is a reported Greek Catholic Scientologist Soros Banker whose Scientologist sister lives in Santa Barbara.

Soros openly admitted he worked for the Nazi's during WWII.

AY runs a Soros analogue called Open Ukraine, partnered with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the United States Department of State and Chatham House, among other organizations.

These guys get deep cover from controlled Mockingbird media to take over resources with debt usury like Confessions of an Economic Hit Man:

http://bit.ly/1kbK46l

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:49 | 4608112 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

someone here needs to translate this for me. sure sounds interesting.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:38 | 4607944 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Let's look at what people like Kerry consider moving in the right direction.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article182892.html

The European Union and the United States, which have supported and funded for years all neo-Nazi groups and other radical extremist factions in Eastern Europe, have given the order to these new fascists never to brandish the swastika, associated with Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Germany, in their marches or other demonstrations.

Indeed, it would be a more discreet way to be seen in public, but an even better way to avoid compromising the U.S. and the European Union because of the secret alliance that binds them to these groups (intelligence operatives and subversive infiltration within the New Gladio).

Thus, the Western mainstream press can present them today as fighters for democracy in the face of the "Russian invasion". However their methods, ideology and actions are a continuation of the same Nazi practices that took place in 1933-1939.

...

That is like saying because the KKK stopped marching in public with white sheets on and burning crosses on lawns they are now okay to deal with because they are moving in the right direction.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:19 | 4607557 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Absurd.

If it's not on Fox, it's a plain lie.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:24 | 4607561 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

The big picture here is that what we are seeing is a face off between the private banker controlled west, which has been slowly imploding under the weight of its parasitic masters, and the rapidly emerging economies that still have ownership of their central banks. The challengers are parasite free and thus are much more efficient than the west. This means the only hope for the banksters is to either cause a war or to cause revolutions that install pro Wall St governments (in Venezuela the rebels are pro Wall St). For the average person living in the west the best outcome here is a crushing defeat of the banksters. 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:40 | 4607589 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

"rapidly emerging economies that still have ownership of their central banks"

 

And that's a big part of the reason why Iraq and Libya were taken out and why Iran and so many of the emerging countries are deemed enemies.  Our real masters in the West depend heavily on controlling central banks in every country.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:10 | 4607624 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

That's the key. Thank you.

Is that reason enough to hope China will survive its unfolding financial collapse?

I knew that, about their having publicly owned central banks, but somehow I forgot. 

How do you forget something like that?  It's a warning flag.  

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:33 | 4607679 optimator
optimator's picture

You can't conquer the world with tanks, but you can with the printing press.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 17:01 | 4608444 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Marx's "You can't start a revolution without a printing press" has morphed into "You can't start a revolution without a twitter."

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:36 | 4607683 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I would agree until you said the 'much more efficient than the west.'  The only difference is that Russians/Chinese won't let outsiders f@ck over their own people especially if they are West European/American.  They'll just do it themselves.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:46 | 4607717 ATG
ATG's picture

Usury kills

http://bit.ly/1kbK46l

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:25 | 4607564 SandiaMan
SandiaMan's picture

I like the tank with 420 on it. Choom Tank

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:26 | 4607566 logicalman
logicalman's picture

The two biggest problems humanity has are Countries and Governments.

Both are a bad idea.

Without them there would be no real wars.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:49 | 4607598 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Hard to call Russia a " country." More like a vast space.

The media gone all in on a money narrative..."the Chinese have no private interests in Ukraine."

Again ...a loss of Kiev Rus to Putin at this point would be a devastating blow. This interview was like listening to the President speak.

The issue is not complicated...free and open elections, followed apparently by the ascension of the only oligarch (apparently) to defend the Independence Square movement.

If Putin were to move this would have a devastating consequence to Western Europe's economy. Talk about an infrastructure grab. I can understand Putin's temptation. This would wipe out the bulk of Western European banking interests if he were to "go for it."

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:55 | 4608123 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

man...there's no pleasin' you phucks.

now i'm all "go pootie go" and i get down arrowed.
"well, which is it?"
bwhahahahaha.

Should be interesting to watch Assad to "return the favor."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0nKkhy8v0M

He won't have any problem with his re-election either.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 18:43 | 4608681 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

you're really nuts.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:54 | 4607612 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

logicalman...

or, more simply ... "governments have a monopoly on violence"

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:13 | 4607651 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Thomas Paine, the forgotten, yet most truthful Founding Father of the US who walked his talk, got it right years ago:

“My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.”
Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:00 | 4607749 trader1
trader1's picture

so the solution is one world government, one earth, we all get along, and go look for life in other parts of the universe...

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:28 | 4607568 GVB
GVB's picture

For those who like, Mr. Butler speaks at the UK Investor Forums for about 34min (March 2014), And yes, it relates to the subject of this article. Actually, everything is tied together (USD!). Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIzDD5G-EUI

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:30 | 4607572 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Back in the middle of 2012  Putin pledged to strengthen Russia’s economic and political ties with China after skipping a Group of Eight summit in the U.S. the month before. This unholy alliance between Russia and China may create major problems for America going forward. For more about this meeting and the implications see the article below.

 http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2012/06/putin-strenghtens-ties-with-china...

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:19 | 4607657 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

" This unholy alliance between Russia and China may create major problems for America going forward."

Unholy? 

It's an alliance like many others in the world. Holy has nothing to do with it.

Imo, Putin could give a damn about the G8. The G20 is where the shots will be called and where the future of the IMF's ability to make decisions will be decided. 

The SCO and the BRICS development bank will also be bigger players in future.

The neo cons have, by their childishly transparent power plays, simply speeded up the damage being done to western credibility. How long will Western Europe continue to go along with these chicken hawks... That is the real question.


Sun, 03/30/2014 - 14:04 | 4608006 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Indefinately. As long as these chicken hawks have the MSM by the short and curlies, churning out on-message bullshit.

Until the SHTF...

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 16:43 | 4608405 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

You want to see an unholy allince?  Try Washington, Wall Street and the military-industrial complex.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:52 | 4607731 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Strange using unholy.

You do know that Putin is a born again Christian(orthodox) don't you ?

I hate these black or white positions(no pun intended), but lets try and look behind

the propaganda.My concern is we end up with a pre chosen shit sandwich, as an alternative

to the crap sandwich already on the menu.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:34 | 4607578 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Truth has been routed from the field. 

"Truther" used as a pejorative for those who demand evidence.

We do not live in a enlightened, rational age much as we'd like to think we do.  We say we are rational just to flatter ourselves.  Criminals are in charge and their focus is on successfully executing their rackets.

Where is honor?  I used to be more hopeful.

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 11:42 | 4607698 ATG
ATG's picture

Here some hope.

Support it now or complain later:

http://bit.ly/1kbK46l

 

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:40 | 4607587 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

“If you agree that we need to defuse the situation, why won’t you publicly say what the Right Sector really is?”

Because "they" are a bunch of lying, obfuscating, motherfuckers.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:53 | 4607601 q99x2
q99x2's picture

" First of all, it states that the most urgent task is to stop the violence of armed groups, disarm militants (,arrest all BANKSTERS that stole the gold) and free all illegally seized buildings – which hasn’t been done yet – as well as squares, streets, cities, towns and villages."

I fixed it.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 10:51 | 4607604 smacker
smacker's picture

Something that I find very disconcerting about the Ukraine situation debated in this interview with Lavrov is how much meddling the EU has been doing. Somebody needs to tell the unelected slimeballs Barroso and his garden gnome Rompuy that they are UNELECTED public servants and have ZERO democratic authority to be interfering at all.

It is precisely this feature of the EU -- its step-by-step actions as though it had the authority of an elected government -- that is beginning to anger so many Brits.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:30 | 4607809 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

Most important post on ZH today!!

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 12:53 | 4607860 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Why do you call them "public servants?" They are anything but.

 

Edit: I know you know that. Just making a point, preaching to the choir.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:31 | 4607946 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Barroso and Rompuy meddling didn't surprise me. Merkles stance and comments did. 

I suppose that the NSA spying on her uncovered some things that she did not want in the press?

She was a good buddy of Putin for years before this Ukraine situation arose.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 13:55 | 4607988 smacker
smacker's picture

Good points.

Perhaps Merkel's anti-Russian comments with the EU/USG were backed off in a private phone call to Putin in her fluent Russian in which she told him to ignore what she says publicly, that's just for public consumption.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 20:12 | 4608924 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

smacker... well made points all. 

I believe when push comes to shove Angela will throw in her lot with Putin.

In her office resides a painting of Cathrine the Great... Merkle adores Cathrine and her accomplishments.

Very difficult for me to believe that Angela will back O against P.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 21:43 | 4609182 smacker
smacker's picture

Yes, I completely agree.

I'd go slightly further and say that -- given Mutti's life history in the GDR where she had quite important positions in the regime and that she went to school in Russia -- she'd probably like to throw in the whole EU with Russia. That would be fine with the Barroso crowd in Brussels who are mostly old commies/fascists anyway.

It becomes a question of timing and also she somehow has to weaken links with the US and English speaking nations, so she can drag the EU towards Russia.

It would also explain why the British Labour Party and its Marxist leader Red Ed Miliband is also 100% committed to the EU. They see Russia as the future.

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