This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Ron Paul Explains Why Aid For Ukraine Is A Bad Deal For All

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Ron Paul of The Ron Paul Institute,

Last week Congress overwhelmingly passed a bill approving a billion dollars in aid to Ukraine and more sanctions on Russia. The bill will likely receive the president’s signature within days. If you think this is the last time US citizens will have their money sent to Ukraine, you should think again. This is only the beginning.

This $1 billion for Ukraine is a rip-off for the America taxpayer, but it is also a bad deal for Ukrainians. Not a single needy Ukrainian will see a penny of this money, as it will be used to bail out international banks who hold Ukrainian government debt. According to the terms of the International Monetary Fund (IMF)-designed plan for Ukraine, life is about to get much more difficult for average Ukrainians. The government will freeze some wage increases, significantly raise taxes, and increase energy prices by a considerable margin.

But the bankers will get paid and the IMF will get control over the Ukrainian economy.

The bill also authorizes more US taxpayer money for government-funded “democracy promotion” NGOs, and more money to broadcast US government propaganda into Ukraine via Radio Free Europe and Voice of America. It also includes some saber-rattling, directing the US Secretary of State to “provide enhanced security cooperation with Central and Eastern European NATO member states.”

The US has been “promoting democracy” in Ukraine for more than ten years now, but it doesn’t seem to have done much good. Recently a democratically-elected government was overthrown by violent protestors. That is the opposite of democracy, where governments are changed by free and fair elections. What is shocking is that the US government and its NGOs were on the side of the protestors! If we really cared about democracy we would not have taken either side, as it is none of our business.

Washington does not want to talk about its own actions that led to the coup, instead focusing on attacking the Russian reaction to US-instigated unrest next door to them. So the new bill passed by Congress will expand sanctions against Russia for its role in backing a referendum in Crimea, where most of the population voted to join Russia. The US, which has participated in the forced change of borders in Serbia and elsewhere, suddenly declares that international borders cannot be challenged in Ukraine.

Those of us who are less than gung-ho about sanctions, manipulating elections, and sending our troops overseas are criticized as somehow being unpatriotic. It happened before when so many of us were opposed to the Iraq war, the US attack on Libya, and elsewhere. And it is happening again to those of us not eager to get in another cold -- or hot -- war with Russia over a small peninsula that means absolutely nothing to the US or its security.

I would argue that real patriotism is defending this country and making sure that our freedoms are not undermined here. Unfortunately, while so many are focused on freedoms in Crimea and Ukraine, the US Congress is set to pass an NSA “reform” bill that will force private companies to retain our personal data and make it even easier for the NSA to spy on the rest of us. We need to refocus our priorities toward promoting liberty in the United States!

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:42 | 4612181 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Ron is beginning to sound like one of them hippies who doubts the rightousness of Merica, and the troops.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:50 | 4612199 PRO.223
PRO.223's picture

Ron is demonized for speaking the truth.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:56 | 4612225 falak pema
falak pema's picture

thats what he said : Ron sounds like a hippie; like blowing in the wind... 

But that was another age before neo-con and neo-liberal baloney and rage became center page. 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:46 | 4612356 Looney
Looney's picture

What WILL happen in Ukraine (and I ain’t no NostrObamus) is that a few UKRAINIAN generals will pull an Egypt – taking charge of the country until the NEW non-Nato Constitution is “referendumed” and, based on that, the new gobbermint, on all levels, is elected.

Otherwise, somebody (most likely Saudis) gets nuked.

 

OK, it’s time for my hourly electric-shock therapy…  Hey, Nurse (or Stewardess?), may I hold your boob while you flip the high voltage ON? ;-)

 

Looney

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:23 | 4612448 strannick
strannick's picture

Bankrupting your country to become IMF Globalist Slaves and giving the money to Ukrainian Fascists? What's wring with that?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 21:31 | 4612604 lordylord
lordylord's picture

It is a sad world when men like Ron Paul are considered crazy.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:58 | 4612230 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“But the bankers will get paid and the IMF will get control over the Ukrainian economy

Maybe the bankers will get paid off, but I think there is someone else who is more likely to end up in control.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 22:29 | 4612747 666
666's picture

The USSA taxpayers bailed out their banksters, and now will bail out banksters in other countries. What could be more fair than this?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:06 | 4612249 weburke
weburke's picture

oh boy, those uk's dont know the eu treaty calls them " SUBJECTS "  ---NOT--- citizens. 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:28 | 4612316 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

I think you needed a sarcasm tag on that. Some people think that you are criticizing the great American, Dr. Ron Paul.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:40 | 4612349 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Get over that vietnam era hippie shit.  History will remember them mostly for serving as useful idiots in expanding the powers of Gov.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:43 | 4612184 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Who Carez about the Ukrainians, when you can start another cold war and make trillions selling military equipment? It was never about freedom, only about the money, and how we can con the taxpayers to defund schools, pensions, cities etc while protecting them against imaginary boogymen (now Russians, since Arabs have become passe)

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:51 | 4612213 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

It's also about spreading democracy.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:03 | 4612241 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Not for the children?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:03 | 4612404 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Someone has to pay for all that Demockracy

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:13 | 4612268 Reptil
Reptil's picture

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:54 | 4612218 Gaurden
Gaurden's picture

Us humans are just not equipped to defend ourselves from pure evil.

and it is pure evil thats running this show.

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 00:06 | 4612940 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Show me a defunded government school. That'd be a thing to celebrate.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:47 | 4612200 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

 

Dear nuclear warmongers,

 

Years after you reemerge from your bunkers you will be confronted by hundreds of thousands of survivors who are tougher than anything you can even theorize. By the time they are done with you, a period stretching into years, you will wish you were never born. If you think you know agony, you don't know the revenge you will incur from those who lost their children, their wives, and their future over your awful miscalculations. You will be shown no pity or remorse. The greatest minds of a generation will discover new ways of inflicting agony and pain on your pathetic excuse for biological matter. This goes for both Russians and Americans. The world will unite to see your suffer. You may not believe in hell, but when the survivors are done with you there will be no doubt in your mind. Your life will be prolonged only as a way of inflicting as much misery and suffering on you that is allowed by nature, and even this will be extended. If they could, they would digitize your mind and torture you for hundreds of years. Unfortunately no electronics will survive the Holocaust you have created. Shooting me, the messenger, will do you no good in the end. You have no idea what kind of universal revulsion there will be to seeing your butts ascend from the underground bunker cities. You won't even be considered of the same species as the rest of survivors. Consider this truth the next time you open your inhuman yapps preying for a nuclear conflagration.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:21 | 4612291 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

That is without a doubt the darkest comment I've ever read on the internetz.

I'd up vote you but I think a bunch of green arrows would detract from the esoteric nihilisim of it...

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 01:25 | 4613047 83_vf_1100_c
83_vf_1100_c's picture

"That is without a doubt the darkest comment I've ever read on the internetz.:

 

He is no Cormac McCarthy but it ain't bad.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:50 | 4612338 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

"Years after you reemerge from your bunkers you will be confronted by hundreds of thousands of survivors who are tougher than anything you can even theorize. By the time they are done with you, a period stretching into years, you will wish you were never born.

 ...Your life will be prolonged only as a way of inflicting as much misery and suffering on you that is allowed by nature, and even this will be extended."

 

Bullshit.

We will roast and eat those soft pale underground dwelling 'veal peeps' as soon as they run out of canned cat-food and/or piss-filters and emerge from their fucking burrows.

Then we will go right back to building a world without them.  A savage world perhaps; but, full of meaning and immediacy, devoid of bland mendacious incivilities or human exploitation disguised as culture or religion or government...

 

"Can you imagine hunting elk in the ruins of Rockefeller Plaza?  I can." -Tyler Durden

Yes, Tyler; I can and do.

I will hunt with You and dine with You.  I will fight with You to become strong and beside You to become victorious.
I will be subject to the imposition of no other being and know myself fully.

The fraudulent 'civilization' is dying and I am going to dance naked at it's funeral and fuck it's orphaned daughters.

Shove that up the crack of your nihilism.

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 02:55 | 4613121 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

I'm seeing a trend develop here.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:03 | 4612405 countryboy42
countryboy42's picture

That was outstanding. My plan was to run around and throw skunks down the ventilator shafts 'till TPTB come out. Very dark, but I may have to borrow your rant. You, sir/or madame just made my day.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:16 | 4612431 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

Yeah, so's your mother.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:49 | 4612502 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Naughtius maximus
What are you, drunk?
You're another internet tough guy. Yes, revenge will be sweet. Someday. Some other time. Some other place.
LOL

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 21:02 | 4612532 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

Nope not today. I don't even expect to be one of the survivors. But I'll be cheering them on from hell.

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 01:59 | 4613075 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, so you believe in Justice, then.

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 11:12 | 4613781 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The warmongers will up periscope before coming out, see the world as it is, and then commit suicide.  After all, they are cowards and bullies.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:54 | 4612202 kragsquest
kragsquest's picture

Good ole Dr. Paul....

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:48 | 4612205 Piranha
Piranha's picture

Ukraine doesnt have their own central bank that can print money?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:50 | 4612209 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Thank you Ron Paul.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:01 | 4612234 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

He sounded an awful lot like a ZH commenter.  Most of them, anyway.

Impressive.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:55 | 4612221 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

This is why Vlad needs to roll the tanks and kick the Brussels Bandits out.

How can I root for the U.S.A. when it is so utterly corrupt, two-faced, and oppresive?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:57 | 4612227 DrData02
DrData02's picture

"If we really cared about democracy we would not have taken either side, as it is none of our business."  Well said.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:01 | 4612233 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Never in his wildest dreams did Putin believe that he would get Crimea and get his gas bill paid without firing a shot.  The US and the EU sure showed him a thing or two.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:04 | 4612245 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Or Ten.....

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:02 | 4612239 Slave
Slave's picture

"Last week Congress overwhelmingly passed a bill approving a billion dollars in aid to Ukraine and more sanctions on Russia."

 

Does anybody have a link to these votes/bills?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:24 | 4612303 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

 House

Final tally: 399 to 19.

How many Republicans voted for the bill?: 210.

How many Democrats voted for the bill?: 189.

How many Republicans voted against the bill?: 17.

How many Democrats voted against the bill?: 2.

How many members didn't vote?: 13. (Five Republicans and eight Democrats.)

 

Who voted against U.S. aid to Ukraine? - Washington Post

 Senate

While the 78-17 vote showed considerable bipartisan support for the measure, bolstered by the votes of some Republicans who spent last week’s congressional recess in Ukraine, its ultimate fate is uncertain. Conservatives remain opposed to an overhaul of the monetary fund’s governance structure, which would expand Ukraine’s borrowing limit at the fund but, many Republicans say, would also diminish the United States’s authority and even increase Russia’s.

Ukraine aid bill clears hurdle in Senate, sets up vote for later in the week

 

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:49 | 4612332 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

I appreciate the links. Thank you.

Some of my favorite Representatives voted against. Justin Amash, Paul Broun, and Raul Labrador. Paul Broun is running for the US Senate. I believe that he is a good man and I hope that some will investigate his website.

A mistake in the article. Raul Labrador represents Idaho, not Utah.

 

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 04:38 | 4613190 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

Conservatives remain opposed to an overhaul of the monetary fund’s governance structure, which would expand Ukraine’s borrowing limit at the fund but, many Republicans say, would also diminish the United States’s authority and even increase Russia’s.

US vote on IMF reform is now in the executive's hands. Since it isn't domestic legislation, the US executive can act on it once the Senate approves it with a 2/3 majority and the Senate already did. The House has no say in it.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:05 | 4612246 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture

was this already posted?

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/putin-flushes-the-us-dollar-russias-gold-ruble-payments-system-delinked-from-dollar/5375866

 

http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/725832

The Golden Symbol of Russian Rouble installation in front of the bank’s office in Perevedensky pereulok in Moscow will symbolize the rouble’s stability and its backing by the country’s gold reserves, the action’s organizers explained to Itar-Tass.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:21 | 4612289 Reptil
Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:07 | 4612248 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

And from Rand: crickets chirping...must be worried about AIPAC/bankers already

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:18 | 4612282 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Does anyone know the politics of the Paul's Milkman?  Postman?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:22 | 4612297 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

If Rand doesn't keep a little daylight between himself and his father, he will fare no better than his father did. Rand can't change anything unless he wins the presidency. I think that he is keeping his eye on the prize. Rand has minimal influence over these events in Ukraine, anyway, and I believe he should wait and see before taking a position.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:26 | 4612310 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Rand can't change anything unless he wins the presidency.

 

Even assuming he could win the Presidency (which he can't) the Red and Blue Team still take their orders from the State Department, and always have.  

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 07:48 | 4613321 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Even assuming he could win the Presidency (which he can't) the Red and Blue Team still take their orders from the State Department, and always have.  

Even assuming he could win the Presidency, the Red and Blue Team still take their orders from the State Department, who in turn takes its orders from the Bankster Oligarchs, and always have.

There, fixed it for ya. BTW, the idea that Rand is playing a super-secret double-plus-deluxe game of political poker....and is planning to suprise everyone when elected POTUS by flipping the script on TPTB and governing in strict accordance with the Constitution....well, lets just say it's rather....ahem....unlikely.

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:17 | 4612267 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The hell with Ukraine. You go up my FAFSA first Yellen MoFo. What the hell you doing bribing for Oligarchs. That what you reduce youself to? Go up my FAFSA. Forget about all that World War so you make escape.. We gonna march on Hamptons. Bitch. Bitchez.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:14 | 4612273 Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

What US crony was chosen to buy the high interest rate, US Govt guaranteed $1B Ukrainian bond?  And what are the covenants of this bond - surely some US crony will be paid from the bond purchase.  It's definitely not a bad deal for all!

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:37 | 4612340 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Usually it seems like Soros is ass deep in this shit.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:17 | 4612432 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Ass deep??

Up to his fucking armpits.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:19 | 4612284 No Quarter
No Quarter's picture

I've traveled extensively in Ukraine and Crimea.. Cool place to visit, people are great, beautiful country.. BUT It just blows my mind that our government is intending to spend a BILLION F'ng dollars (more like charging an extra Billion to our credit card ) for absolutly nothing at all. No financial or calcuable geo-political benefit at all, with the likelyhood that there will be more to come... and NO BODY seems to have a problem with this? WTF!?! Not even on their fucking radar....... I like Ukranian people but there is no GOOD reason to do what our government is proposing. What could we do here with a Billion $$? (pretending that they are un-encumbered Dollars of course)  

Whatever it would be, it would certainly be more productive than this bullshit financial escapade.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:24 | 4612304 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Yeah the girls are amazing. *sigh*
Oh... it's not "our government". :-)

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:30 | 4612326 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: BUT It just blows my mind that our government is intending to spend a BILLION F'ng dollars

It's just a billion dollars.   You can barely build a mile of freeway for that money.    Nobody even measures money quanities that small anymore,  it's just "Beez".   How many Beez is that?

Number Two: Don't you think we should ask for *more* than a million dollars? A million dollars isn't exactly a lot of money these days. Virtucon alone makes over 9 billion dollars a year!
Dr. Evil: Really? That's a lot of money.
[pause]
Dr. Evil: Okay then, we hold the world ransom for...
Dr. Evil: One... Hundred... BILLION DOLLARS!

Number Two: Why not use your knowledge of the future to play the stock markets? We could make trillions.
Dr. Evil: Why make a trillion when we could make... billions?
Scott: A trillion's more than a billion, numbnuts.

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:38 | 4612339 No Quarter
No Quarter's picture

Yeah, i get that, but STILL its fucked up and wrong. The reall WRONG part of what i was saying is that no one seems to give a shit. It IS still (fake) money that could be used here for something, anything with more value... 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:55 | 4612382 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

I know... One day I lost 2 billion dollars. I didn't realize it for weeks

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:15 | 4612423 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

One day, Jon Corzine lost $1.2 Billion. He roams the forest floor, a free man....er...Satyr.

One day, the Pentagon lost $2.3 Trillion. The next day, part of the Pentagon, and WTC7 were "wayporized."

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:19 | 4612437 logicalman
logicalman's picture

You check down the back of the couch?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:28 | 4612317 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

It's "only taxpayer money"

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:38 | 4612341 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

There is no money.  There is whimsy.

Only oil matters.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:41 | 4612345 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

As far as I can gather Ukranian short term bonds cannot be allowed to default so the bailout of the unworkable global economy continues. Not supporting the USA / EU / UK agqinst Russia on this shit because it is the western banking system that has the issue and any major default by any nation collapses the rest.

Lending money to any nation just drives the people into poverty to repay borrowed money they do not have and this is the IMF's modus operandi because in reality all those backing the IMF do not have the assets only worthless fiat value.

This is the fraudulent manipulative western banking system where those most entitled take all they want whilst leaving the ordinary population to deal with the ever increasing efficiency of the system.

Just to silence your argument in this battle the  banksters call capitalism (for them) and socialism (deal with the real problem for humans).

Bankers should play NO PART IN MONEY CREATION and why as a species we are now stuck in this position so now just watch the poverty grow the end result.

Do this and you have a chance to stop killing each other, fail chances are humans become extinct.

In the fail you will eventually be forced to fight.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:40 | 4612347 Spungo
Spungo's picture

Free shit for bankers? This stimulus package will pass. 100%

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:45 | 4612358 paddyirishman
paddyirishman's picture

Great Ukraine is now offically like an Eussr country, just like Ireland, Greece, Portugal borrowing monry through the Imf to pay those nice people in the banks, the Ukrainians must feel so happy.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 19:45 | 4612359 paddyirishman
paddyirishman's picture

Great Ukraine is now offically like an Eussr country, just like Ireland, Greece, Portugal borrowing monry through the Imf to pay those nice people in the banks, the Ukrainians must feel so happy.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:08 | 4612410 Magnum
Magnum's picture

WHY is there only one person Ron Paul who tells the true story on such matters? Has everyone else been blackmailed with hidden camera homo encounters or what ?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:25 | 4612450 logicalman
logicalman's picture

He's not the only person saying it. Look around on ZH.

He does, however have a somewhat higher profile, even if the MSM try to shut him out.

Credit where it's due, big time, he is logical, consistent and knowledgeable.

Can anyone think of another politician you could say that about?

Thought not.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:39 | 4612481 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

yes, look at the derivatives bill that both Dems and Pubs almost all signed together, happily.  They're all on the take, believe it!

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 22:46 | 4612788 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Nah, now days that would get them kudo's. But, they sure seem to be getting blackmailed for something.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 22:47 | 4612791 Seer
Seer's picture

So, your stories aren't true?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 20:37 | 4612475 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

Ok, so we give money to the Ukraine that we borrow from China and Japan.  So the never ending circle of useless fiat continues its journey to the bitter end.

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 22:33 | 4612764 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

If I borrow from you $100 and you borrow from me $100 and we both waste our money on booze, who loses?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 22:41 | 4612776 Seer
Seer's picture

But, Ron, Putin is a bad guy, and, well, we have to be really bad to get rid of him, OK? </sarc>

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 01:23 | 4613045 s2man
s2man's picture

s'um bitch

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 04:05 | 4613178 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

I am not sure why every such article talks about the money coming from US tax-payers. US tax-payers don't finance jack, US bond holders finance most of US government spending. Since the US has no intentions of ever repaying these debts from tax revenue, no US tax-payers, current or future, are involved in it. Eventually when the US$ is inflated away, all those holding US bonds and currency, will have paid for it. Since most of the US bonds and currency are held by foreigners, those are the guys paying for this, although they have no say in it.

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 08:07 | 4613339 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Well, for one thing look at who it is that is ACTUALLY 'financing' our 'bonds'. Or at least who is financing the majority of them these days. If you said the US 'Federal' Reserve, then you win a cookie. Now, who is it that is expected to make good on the 'bonds' that are 'purchased' by the Feds magic money-poofing computers? If you said, ultimately the labor and productivity of the US taxpayer....then give yourself another cookie!

So you see....ULTIMATELY.....it is the taxpayer that is on the hook.....for pretty much every fucking thing our gangster gobbermint does.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!