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Lewis Explains The Casino: "Why Are You Even Arguing" That This Is Not Rigged?

Tyler Durden's picture


Round 2 of the HFT vs Reality death match just took place on Bloomberg TV. Once again the clear winner was Katsuyama and Lewis version of the real world as Manoj Narang finally lost all credibility with the mind-0bumbing comment that "speed matters less in today's market than it has ever mattered." But the Tradeworx CEO was a background singer compared to Michael Lewis who explained in his clearest analogy yet how the casino works and then devoured the anchor's constant efforts to play down the "rigged" market perspective... "it's very clear that people are being front run in the market... so, why are you even arguing about this?"

Plenty of good stuff in the clip but this little exchange summed up the problem perfectly...


Lewis explains the game, exposes the rigging, and slams the mainstream media's "defense" of this...

LEWIS:  So of course the tourists get fleeced all the time in the poker games, because they don't know the deck is rigged.  The poker players pay the casino a cut of what they make.  The casinos, operators, pay the tour group - the tour group company money to bring in the tourists.


So in this case, casino's the exchange, the poker players are the high-frequency traders, and the tour group operators are the banks and the brokers that handle the stock market orders.  And I think the analogy is pretty close.  So is that rigged?  Is that a rigged game?  I think it is a rigged game. 


SCHATZKER:  Well, it's rigged only inasmuch as...


LEWIS:  Why are you so invested in the idea this is fair?  Why are you even arguing about this?  It's so clear.




LEWIS:  Yes, you seem to be. I mean, it's very interesting.  But you seem to be - you can see, it's very clear that people are being front run in the market.  There's plenty of evidence in the book. 


SCHATZKER:  Their orders are being anticipated...


LEWIS:  Anticipated and run in front of, that's right.



And then Manoj Narang comes in... and the long words surge and the credibility plummets... "there are so many assertions that are provably false... oh my gosh so many..." crickets... and then finishes off all credibility with "speed matters less in today's market than it has ever mattered."


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Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:47 | 4618656 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

This shit would be hilarious if it wasn't for the upcoming wars to destroy all evidence.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:54 | 4618680 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

no shit.....and they'll get away with it.........

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:02 | 4618705 Rainman
Rainman's picture

The stawks machine game has only one similarity to live poker ... bluffing.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:12 | 4618711 Dark_Horse
Dark_Horse's picture

I put a post in the other thread, and since the story has gained traction I thought I would a little more color.

In 1999, I had discussions with a company in buildup of the infrastructure needed to get setup for HFT. This was a company in Charlotte, NC downtown surrounded by several nationwide banks. They had not completely setup the fiber infrastructure to go direct(or near direct) with CBOT at that time(yet).

The takeaway from my discussions with this early stage HFT company was "Find out where the big money was going, AND GET THERE FIRST!"

The whole business model was to employ technology to front run trades.


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:22 | 4618760 clooney_art
clooney_art's picture

Why bother with all this talk. Let FBI investigate and throw these HFT aholes in jail.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:30 | 4618788 Rainman
Rainman's picture

you forgot the sarc tag

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:33 | 4618796 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Hope he's driving around an old car, with no Onstar or remote technology.  Hopefully it doesn't have a sunroof either, or he might get droned.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:52 | 4618841 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

This reminds me of Bill talking of what the meaning of "is" is, or what constitutes sex.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:54 | 4619239 clooney_art
clooney_art's picture

Look, I simply don't want any "return" on "investment". I simply want my hard earned money, when I need it. I live a modest living. I am pretty sure I can adjust with inflation. I will simply not need an item that's going up in price. Leave me alone out of all this circus. I am thro' with the stock market for good.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:13 | 4619744 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

You and I think alike. Simple and easy and guess what?  That was how the world was living a while ago before this garbage.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 23:05 | 4619900 old naughty
old naughty's picture

On plan, right on schedule...Keeping the sheeples enter-tainTed...

Even astrology matched (maybe other way around) !

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 23:27 | 4619966 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

We don't believe in astrology, but we are ruled by Libra.  So, if you're a bettin' man, it's not going to go down until after the "election".

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:14 | 4620062 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Think local... fuck global...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:51 | 4620107 Seer
Seer's picture

Return on investment w/o doing anything, w/o accepting potential risks?

"I live a modest living."

You say.  Check it against reality: my wife is from the Phiippines, in which case I can assure you that your notion of "modest living" is NOT "modest."   Not a direct attack on you, just stating the realities of the world; and, since trade is global then that means, YES, you/I/we (here) ARE comparables in the Big Pool.  So, consider: there are 750 million people alone who live on $0.50/day.

"I am pretty sure I can adjust with inflation."

And how do you figure this?  Do you KNOW what inflation is going to be?  Are you SURE that banks and other interest returning entitites. all "low risk" necessarily offer above inflation?  In my view of things "interest" is "growth."  When the world's growth is collapsing then "interest" ain't going to be there.  Think about it, how possible would it be for EVERYONE to jump in just one big happy low-risk interest-returning pool?  Where would that "interest" come from?

"I will simply not need an item that's going up in price."

Imagine those 750 folks in India saying this.  I am sure that you can figure just what it is that they could arbitrage with... (hint: it rhymes with "dood").

And the flip side would be that you would "need" things that are falling in price.

Is it a real need that you're looking to deal with, or is it some sort of trade thing?

A true "need" is something that you have to have.  Perhaps if you restate with/as "want" then it works out.

Lastly, there are two definitions for inflation.  The Austrian one is centered on money supply, with it being a measure of money added or removed to/from circulation.  And then there's the more layman's defnition, which is based on the price of things: that meat that you used to get for $7/lb was steak, it's now still $7/lb, but it's now SPAM.

Things are changing, and fast.  What you measure against might not be there tomorrow, it might be moot.

I once had my retirement path all laid out and rolling on target.  Change happened.  The measure changed.  What I learned from this was that squirreling away a bunch of nuts isn't a sufficient enough plan: the number of squirrels is growing and the number of nut trees is shrinking (cause and effect I suppose).  My thinking then shifted toward an acceptance that I would never stop working, that I would never "retire."  (go through life more in a Just-In-Time mode)  The whole notion of "retirement" defies humany history as well as it does in present day for the majority of the world's population.  That you/I/we (here) can even contemplate "retirement" places us in an upper class position, one that is by no means "modest" when compared to the current and historical norms.

None of this should be taken to mean that I condone the existing "rigged" system, I do not.  I see it all in the context of measures taken in desperation in trying to force what cannot happen: perpetual growth on a finite planet; and without that growth there's no inflation to "pay" off previous debts.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:08 | 4619312 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I was thinking about that cartoon I watched as a kid about "how a Bill becomes a Law" actually. ("I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill..and I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill..." song.)

I mean how DARE you call this mere front running. This is running OVER your trade. Still..."gotta pay the piper" and no getting an economic recovery with all that loot means "something wicked this way comes."

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:54 | 4619518 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I'm sure the McCutcheon decision will "fix" everything 



Wed, 04/02/2014 - 21:03 | 4619544 Spanky
Spanky's picture


Thanks for the link.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 21:28 | 4619630 fencejumper
fencejumper's picture

Brilliant, Rainman!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:18 | 4619756 Lets Buy The Dip
Lets Buy The Dip's picture

These gus did not even compare this to the market.

All this bullshit about the FED, interest rates and tapering, was another good dip for the bulls to buy. Fancy that.

The market is crashing every 7 yeasr, and those in charge do this, these guy yelling are just moron, that do not understand the biggest picture.  market crashing every 7 years in the last 20 years wow. Check it out here => It means there could be another one comes soon, if this pattern keeps up. Hmmmm

These guys are like disabled handicapped parrots with nothing to squawk about. JESUS! LOL

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:59 | 4620121 Seer
Seer's picture

Rather than it being some programmed cycle/event I suggest that it might be more about a typical "product cycle," that bubbles start to form, mature and then go pop.

People need to stop playing victims.  If you do not like what "THEY" do then STOP playing their game!  Most of this is just whining that you cannot out-compete them at THEIR game; and, well, of course fucking not, it's THEIR game!  When you stop playing the role of the victim is when you can actually take control of your life and resolve these sorts of "problems."

Yeah, it's bad and it's fucked.  The reality is that nothing lasts forever.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 06:24 | 4620421 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

well usually the average man could have stayed out of their games. But last few cycles TPTB widened the game to include your house, your job (or lack thereof) and likely your retirement fund

kinda hard to evade their game nowadays unless you voluntarily wanna take a medieval approach to your standard of living

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:31 | 4618795 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

ZH needs to sell a new TShirt:

I BTFATH at IEX and they didn't front run me!

Anyone that is out of the market and gets back deserves the eventual outcome...



Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:52 | 4618842 Slave
Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:36 | 4619804 goBackToSleep
goBackToSleep's picture

Don't Front Run Me Bro!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:39 | 4618998 LongMarch
LongMarch's picture

Why fuck around with the FBI? Lets get serious and unleash the SEC!

And if we really want the HFT fucks  to shit their pants, we have the thermonuclear option: Obama will draw some red lines. / sarc

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 06:28 | 4620424 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

yer, we all know the fed and the sec will drop the cases as soon as the media smoke clears

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:34 | 4619767 TruthTalker
TruthTalker's picture

The talk is still interesting - I like Brad and hate all the assholes trying to discredit him

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:22 | 4618764 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

I like Lewis and I am happy he is saying what he is saying, but this is not news to me. Every trade In the last five years, I have always paid higher and I have always sold lower than the price available on the screen. Always.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:39 | 4618809 Rainman
Rainman's picture

yup...It's called the vig in Sicily ..and the propina in Mexico.


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:06 | 4618878 react1200
react1200's picture

It's called "La Mordida" (The bite) in Mexico.  That what you do when a cop carring an AK asks for when he pulls you over for going the speed limit in a rental car.  Propina is just tip.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:10 | 4618894 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Thanx...USA interpretations always confuse me.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:01 | 4618867 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Bring on the class action lawsuits. I eagerly await the postcard that tells me I may be in class C, which pays out 40 cents in restitution after 150 million in attorneys' fees. 

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:20 | 4618923 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

And then sends you 50$ worth paperwork about how they sent your information to the government so they can tax you.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 21:04 | 4619550 dvfco
dvfco's picture

Yup, just when the focus get put on the HFTs, the "Do No Evil" Google Queers decide to split stock into two classes and halve everyone's voting rights, but their own.  Hmm.  Maybe they paid for the book to be written.  The brass balls on those cocksuckers.  They're parking their planes on our military bases and government airports, paying government prices for their fuel, fucking the US out of all taxes, and now they decide they'll just take 1/2 the voting rights.  

Do No Evil      Don't get caught.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:18 | 4618919 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

It comes with being a Muppet.  We all are.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:57 | 4619531 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

this site is a bit like the old men in the balcony

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:02 | 4620043 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

DJ..I just ruined my laptop..thanks for the belly laugh.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 09:37 | 4620884 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

Statler: Wake up you old fool! You slept through the show!
Waldorf: Who's a fool? You watched it!!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:47 | 4619031 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

I'll just repeat what I posted above, I've actually had good retail buying experiences through one of the major online brokers, my executions are often *better* than any book I can see.

OTOH when I use a full-service broker, which I do for an old account, I get full-service screwed every time and the obscene commissions are only a part of it.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:58 | 4619882 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Yes indeed. I am surprised that bigger traders sat silent knowing full well every trade was anticipated and front run by someone who stood between every order and the sell offer. You only could put in a buy order and have it filled AFTER the HFT Middle man used it's HFT to bid up the price and then hand off to you a higher price than the offer to sell was at when you clicked buy. Many big institutional investors, hedge Funders, Pension Funds and individual fund mangers were seeing themsleves fleeced on every transaction, yet it took one guy to finally get mad and research WHY this was the case. These investor people are supposed to be Masters of The Universe, smarter than all us other people, yet they acted like Gomer Fucking Pile in boot camp, too dum to hold a rifle or about face on command! Why did it take so long for HFT to be taken public and exposed on all these fake financial news channels?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:29 | 4620077 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Because institutional investors by definition play with other peoples money and therefore don't actually give a fuck

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:44 | 4620098 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Many institutional investors are dumber than fuck, and only interested in building up AUM because that is what they are paid on.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 06:42 | 4620435 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

the culture of investors is to just make money. period. few have ethical concerns about how. So,

Corruption? Rigged? Its just regarded as the price of admission.

And thats why its taken so long for someone to stand up for investors on a principle that would be obvious and well defended under retail sale or consumer law: The advertised price is the price you pay. full stop. If you cant devise a computer system to show on screen the price you pay, the transaction can be deemed invalid at the customer's discretion

in other words,  investors willingness to earn money deceptively off others is the reason so many tolerated for so long the deception against them. 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 06:52 | 4620447 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Jack you have hit the essential question. Why do company owners take all of their jobs offshore, even though they know their kids need to live in THIS country? Why do 850,000 workers have the same security clearance as Snowden but only HE speaks out? Why is the infrstructure of America falling down around us but all we buy is empty new hospitals in Afghanistan? The answer is: because we are one sick f*cking selfish society. You can't even really call it a society anymore: it's everybody for themselves and Kardashians for all.

Fri, 04/04/2014 - 16:07 | 4626243 LitheLyricist
LitheLyricist's picture

I trade my own money very successfully for the five years i've been trading.  I knew I was being front-run and used to give specific examples directly to the SEC or to my firm to request explanations from the exchanges, to which I never received a single response.  I imagine this is what happened to everybody that complained.  So no, not everyone is stupid or uncaring, it just takes a media spotlight to cause change.  I'm not the type to invite the limelight, even though I'm the good guy in this arena.  The SEC has been focused on going after easy targets for peanuts while everyday tens or hundreds of millions are stolen.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:41 | 4618896 hobopants
hobopants's picture

What a fucking circus. They should have simply gone on the offensive and asked the HFT guy " Forget all the other bullshit. Why is it profitable for another firm to buy the right to place a customer's order?"


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:14 | 4619337 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"don't be on both sides of the trade! don't be on both sides of the trade!" there might not be an actual "sale" when the do this shit but it's really hard to argue "this is a wash trade."

my entire trading position is exposed...long, short, convoluted and "clear loser" even...and someone is trying to say that...

Flight ME 370! Flight ME 370!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:12 | 4620149 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to all the nuances, but that is one thing that I caught that made me go WTF?

As the progression of things goes it'll be robots trading for robots as humans sit around and try to explain why it's all good...

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:02 | 4618708 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

If some good ole boys don't get frog marched over this then ... well ... it'll be time to ... La La La La La La 

Tin foil hats for sale!  




Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:56 | 4619249 laomei
laomei's picture

No, it'll end the way it always ends. There's a "serious investigation" which finds no wrongdoing, then there's a slap on the wrist fine of a few million, followed by a rules change that makes it all totally legal because reasons.  Because anything real would result in yes, some bullshit war to bury it all.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:14 | 4619344 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

"No, it'll end the way it always ends. There's a "serious investigation" which finds no wrongdoing, then there's a slap on the wrist ..."

You might be right, but the value in this negative exposure is that it's one more grain of sand on the mountain-sized pile of fraud and theft that masquerades as a market.

If you've ever built a sand pile with your kid at the beach, you know that as you add more and more sand, at some point the pile collapses and its base enlarges.  Which grain of sand causes the collapse?  Who knows and it really doesn't matter.

As long as they keep adding to the fraud pile, the system will ultimately collapse just like the sand pile.  And add to it the banksters surely will, because they dont know any other way--fraud to them is a way of life.  It's why those douches on Bloomberg and CNBS are truly dumbfounded when someone dares to question their business "model."  Hey, it's what they do.  Honest banksters are like honest politicians:  exceedingly rare and with short careers even when they do exist.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:34 | 4619425 spinone
spinone's picture

When the pile collapses, the bankers will get bailed out again.  And again....

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:38 | 4619448 centerline
centerline's picture

No they won't.  The posturing is already taking place.  The real backstop is the Cyprus example - probably replicated in the EU before it hits here.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:35 | 4619431 centerline
centerline's picture

That is emotion speaking my friend.  Reality is that they wont get away with it.  These folks will still be screwing the system as it falls off the edge of the cliff - right to jagged edges below.  They are parasites.  They can't live without the system.  The derive power from it - power that sadly we give to them as we are trapped in said system.  Ironic huh?

Doesnt matter how it ends.  Just that it does in fact end.  You really think the world we are moving into holds a place for a bullshit-spewing big-finance assholes who have nothing really productive to offer?

Just wait though, the "thrown under the bus" part of this saga hasn't even started yet.

Oh, and don't confuse them with the real finance guys who actually connect capital to industry, help guide people's investments, balance real books, etc.  ... the real services that are necessary for a modern but free civilization to advance given our current DNA/programming.



Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:17 | 4620154 Seer
Seer's picture

They'll be fined for stepping over the line ever so slightly (as everyone else is frimly planted right ON the line).  And over time that line will shift such that today's trespassers will be tomorrow's line sitters... and we'll continue to NOT raise any question about the line moving closer to the cliff (and taking us all over).

When everything is predicated on growth, and when growth is no longer possible, you bet your ass that the line will be made to shift.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 21:57 | 4619706 SnobGobbler
SnobGobbler's picture

..and front-run...and finance both sides....then, rehypothicate the whole mess from their bunkers like a game of yhatzee.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:35 | 4618770 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

This shit would be hilarious if it wasn't for the upcoming wars to destroy all evidence.


Well said indeed.  I guess you could say if the people of the United States were profoundly concerned about the "rule of law" the NIST's technical presentation on the Salomon Brothers Building collapse in lower Manhattan which to use your words destroyed all evidence at the time for the SEC for frontrunners like ENRON, Worldcom, SB, GS, JP Chase etc. would have sent the appropriate parties to Federal prison including Shyam Sunder and John Gross...

If Mike Lewis was for real he would have been walking around his business circles touting Zero Hedge 4 years ago and never would have appeared on 60 minutes had he been loud enough!

The worst damage that could have been done to the U.S. economy other than 9/11 took place in the Fall of 2008 which was the nail in the coffin.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:34 | 4618974 Jannn
Jannn's picture

The Great HFT Debate With Michael Lewis On CNBC

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:38 | 4618988 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Yep theyve done so much bad shit since 1945 that this time around they'll have to go to WW3 to create a big enough diversion.

Won't work though.  Too many people have it figured out.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:12 | 4619331 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Unfortunately, having it figured out isn't necessarily a get out of jail free card when it comes to WW3. You will still be dead. The bad thing is, you will see it coming the whole way. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:40 | 4619819 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

YES well maybe this time around the sons of sons will not buy the go and die cause.  Maybe this time around nobody shows up to fight for the


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:48 | 4619846 Hayabusa
Hayabusa's picture

I stopped listening to the talking heads and their propaganda a long time ago - their lies are becoming more and more obvious.  Soon even the most dense and "devoted" sheeple will see the propaganda for what it is and pull the hell out.  As the frequency, intensity and duration of the lies/propaganda increases people wil catch on... the trick is catching it at the apex then converting your wealth into something that "can't be touch or taken"... remember, loose lips sink ships.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 05:44 | 4620384 justinius1969
justinius1969's picture

The mop head...what a slippery cunt...

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:50 | 4618658 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Must have lost something in translation...

Are there paid memberships to ZH now...?

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:52 | 4618672 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Bloomberg TV doesn't show obn embeds or on my phone either - Here ya go -

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:53 | 4618677 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Much grass...

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:47 | 4619030 Blano
Blano's picture

Thanks Doc.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:50 | 4618832 Algosaurus Rex
Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:29 | 4619151 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Hilarious how the talking heads squirm while trying to protect the con job.

What they don't want to get out there in the public mind is that not only is the stock market rigged, all 'markets' are rigged and the entire economy and society of which they are a part is a con.

If people fully understood that . . . . well, look out

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:03 | 4619285 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Reality is uncomfortable to the show clowns. If the show clowns knew anything they'd be hired away. They are cost centers, sumps until the freight paying real purpose of the channels, the commercials, come on. But now they have to walk a clown tightrope and keep the sheeple from figuring out, which won't happen; what a crap product they are sloppy serving up for the sheeple.

TV=Sheeple control and distraction from importance box.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:50 | 4619856 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Problem is that they too are invested in the scam.  These talking heads have egos and paychecks. they need to talk the party line to appear smart and worthy of martini toasts. This floors them as well.


So what you see is a lot of denial.  "I am CNBC investment could i be so stupid?"  and then off camera. head for the hills and call my broker; Oh hey can't do that?  Now what the F am I going to do?  Gotta do something to make my life feel real.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 21:53 | 4619696 goBackToSleep
goBackToSleep's picture

You know, it's funny how uncanilly this guy looks kinda like Breitbart, no wait Kenedy, no wait Flight93, ...........I'm through with this exercise it's too easy.


Someone will be suicided over this one.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:50 | 4618664 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture


I took a schatz-ker this a.m. and it was wonderful.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:57 | 4618692 Joe Davola
Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:23 | 4620164 Seer
Seer's picture

Reminded me of this one: (every fucking time I see it I chuckle, w/o fail- why the fuck is that?)

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:17 | 4619354 The Fonz...befo...
The Fonz...before shark jump's picture

Mine too, came out my (cliff) ASSNES

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:51 | 4618667 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Seems like Lewis is getting better speaking each day he works on it. His adversaries , not so much.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:59 | 4618698 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

Ironic actually. For people who use pure speed to make money, they are pretty fucking slow on their feet. Its been a couple of days and no improvement. Its like being called a dumb ass and only being able to call that person a dumb ass... for two days straight.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:25 | 4618774 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

WTF can they say though?  It's going to be pretty hard to come up with a plausible excuse that would justify what amounts to an institutionalized skim operation.


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:08 | 4618880 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

The Math PHDs are kept hidden.

Don't you know the nerds would turn states evidence.

The front men of the front runners have no idea how they do it ... they aren't paid to know that.

Intent to commit fraud is blatant


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:23 | 4619135 SDShack
SDShack's picture

+1000. Yep, it's the intent that really defines the fraud, and in this case, like so many other fraud cases, the intent is clear. This makes HFT a crime. But like so much mega dollar white collar crime, TPTB will look the other way. It's the Corzine way.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:55 | 4619245 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

I often ponder what a fucking shame it is that an entire generation of geniuses either help Wall Street assholes steal or write code for social media websites. No furthering mankind through science or medicine. The dark ages are upon us.........

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:54 | 4619515 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

This is some serious honesty. It is criminally insane how much capital and other resources, including intellectual capital, that are wasted on selfies... I mean being social is cool and all, but there's no fucking way zuck should be worth billions. Pathetic...

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 22:46 | 4619570 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Zuckerberg is just the new type of commercial front for DOD R&D now. You really think he gets to invest that money on the IPO without clearing it first through the higher ups for approved project aims. Why do you think they are buying up virtual reality goggles and drones for 'internet' coverage in places where there is no internet coverage..........

Same deal with google, twitter, etc.

These are the new public/private corporate structures to get around budget shortfalls and throw wall street into the mix to make sure that liquidity is channeled into these companies and that their valuations can't go down in an unrigged market.

Try shorting facebook and see what happens... Try it with an HFT trading platform bet you see when algos attack on steroids commence to counter and a few investigations by the SEC and FBI if you do it a couple of times in a row.

It is not his money, never was, it is their money he is nothing more than a glorified project manager and if he fucks that up then he gets to start his own institute like a Soros or Gates for them to use that money for their purposes with him being nothing more than a steward holding it getting a living stipend in the process.

He is either a sell out or a sucker depending. He is not a good steward for the future of the tech community and he should be shunned as a pariah for his actions.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:17 | 4618912 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Its like skimming the milk...they are doing for our health. Just like Obama does it!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:47 | 4619029 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

does this explain the nailgun incident?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:28 | 4620170 Seer
Seer's picture

Careful!  That word has "gun" in it, and, well, there are still employed carpenters out there...

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:54 | 4618681 Fast Twitch
Fast Twitch's picture

So where's the clip...?

Pulled already...? Lol

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:55 | 4618686 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Look above

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:58 | 4618695 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Got caught in a white out.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:21 | 4618759 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

I don't have it either

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:05 | 4618876 Algosaurus Rex
Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:18 | 4619359 Fast Twitch
Fast Twitch's picture


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:54 | 4618684 yogibear
yogibear's picture

It's an election year, don't expect a crash anytime soon.



Wed, 04/02/2014 - 16:58 | 4618694 cossack55
cossack55's picture

What does the term "election year" even mean?  I mean, really, does any of that political shit even matter?  Don't think so, baby.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:23 | 4618765 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

@cossack: Those down arrows speak volumes. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. .....HL Mencken

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:51 | 4619225 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

....wasn't it "overestimating the unintelligence of the American public"...???

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:59 | 4618862 KingFiat
KingFiat's picture

Elections only matter when the voters have a real choice. Long time since that was the case in most parts of the western world.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:14 | 4619340 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

If they mattered they'd be illegal.

What does matter is the appearances of elections. The show qualitues so that the sheeple are distracted between product A and repackaged product B.

I wonder what frontrun political order is being executed now? Jeb Bush? Ersatz faux Rand Paul flavor du month a la liberttain? GS Cruz? Vs clown Blue Team Old Bull Billery Clint vs Sum Yug Ting?

Crystilizing Sheeple Opinion.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:10 | 4618732 Citium
Citium's picture

Except Housing Bubble in 2008, Nasdaq Bubble in 2000, Savings and Loan crisis from 1982-1990 that included a 1987 crash that really caught fire in the form of George W. Bush's 1988 win and subsequent bail-out of the savings and loan situation at the beginning of his first and only term.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:33 | 4618798 NachoLiebor
NachoLiebor's picture

That would be George H. W. Bush...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:31 | 4620171 Seer
Seer's picture

He introduced us to the New World Order, yes?

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:35 | 4618804 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

Just like 2008...errr...uhhmmm


buy buy buy!!!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 05:24 | 4620374 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

Like 2000, and the dot com crash that happend afterward?

Or 2008, and the Great Recession?

Of course, everything is fine. Yellen has our back, just like Ben and Greenspan did.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:01 | 4618704 Charles Wilson
Charles Wilson's picture

No surprise here but something is being lost in "Reality Death Match".

The book has a paradigm: "Watch what happens when I attempt to buy AMD @ $X.xx..."  Thousands of offers. "<Press Enter to Execute Trade>".  NO ACCEPTANCE. ZERO.  In a "Real" Market (Not "Fair"), of the 1000s of offers, there MUST be one of those offers that will mark a Buyer and Seller agreeing in the Marketplace AT THE PRICE AGREED.  There would then be a "Transaction" which would then be legally binding and verified.  Since this did not happen, an impediment to a FREE market has inhibited trades.

This is what is now being ignored over the Lollapalooza Sound Bites and Fireworks.

If I make an offer to trade and someone on the other side agrees to this price, a FREE Market would complete the Trade.

"I think something's wrong here a little bit, Bob..."



Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:11 | 4618733 Freddie
Freddie's picture

This story is really weird. We all knew about HFT. Didn't 60 minutes have a story on it and dark pools over a year ago? Time Magazine cover story too plus daily comments or stories on ZH. I like Michael Lewis but this is strange. Guy writes a book, essentially pimps book on 60 Minutes, 60 Minutes pimps new exchange by smart clean cut Asian kid who never used limit orders at RBC? WTF? The kid says hedge funds were baffled about HFT? Endless fiber installed near Jersey City over the past 10 years. Lewis, 60 Minutes and new exchange CEO tells the world that the Market is Rigged.

Now we have the rigged markets show on CNBC and Bloomberg with these smack downs. Something does not add up here.

Pre-announcing a crash or just book and new exchange pimping?

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:30 | 4618789 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I've wondered about this too.  We've all known about HFT algos frontrunning the greater market for f'n YEARS now.  Is it just because Lewis names names and this Canadian cat has finally come up with a supposedly "clean" alternative?

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:08 | 4618830 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Same here.  How did Lewis' more jocular, less technical book set the world on fire over HFTs a year after Patterson's Darkpools, 5 years after ZH, and after various whitepapers by institutes and doctorates and other articles?  As I read through the various Amazon reviews for Lewis' book, one stuck in my mind: 'It seemed like he was paid to write it'.

Suddenly it's an issue, suddenly the FBI are wading in, IPOs are being cancelled and the Squid is squidding out.

Stinks. And I think it goes beyond book pimping Freddie.  GS and the FBI are not usually on hand to help promote MIC bashing novelists. 


The one phrase keeps turning over and over in my head: 'controlled opposition'.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:19 | 4618922 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Yeah, imagine a writer being paid to write a book. Pretty suspicious.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:31 | 4619162 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Freddie and others. None of this info matters if you aren't playing the game to begin with. It's like watching a car wreck in real time from the sidelines. You ain't in the car, no worries.

Worthless paper is the first thing that burns, leaving no trace.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:11 | 4619102 Confused
Confused's picture

Could be Lewis' populartiy that has enabled this topic to gain momentum. Sadly, I do not know Pattersons, so I can't compare the two. 

Lewis has been big with more casual (less techincal) readers which might mean a wider audience. I would imagine that alone would get some people to pay attention and make others nervous.

Or it could be something else, as others are suggesting. The idea that GS is getting out is bit strange. I guess we will find out.  

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:26 | 4619393 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

It can also be that it's "just time."  To everything there is a season...blah blah blah.  Could be a conspiracy, but it could also be the time was ripe for this shite to hit the fan or for it to stick to the wall...take your pick of metaphor.  Either way, conspiracy or timing, it looks like things are starting to unravel.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:04 | 4619292 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

Lewis is a great writer who can lay out complicated topics in comprehensible form.   Hence the sudden interest.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:20 | 4619366 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Could be the profits are gone in the racket but rather than figure out the ones now in place, give up this one which was no longer profitable.

This time its different.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 02:18 | 4620221 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture


The squid sees a crash coming (or knows that one is being arranged deliberately to facilitate a big asset grab for pennies on the dollar) and wants to be wearing a clean shirt when it happens.

Simple really!!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 19:32 | 4619169 SDShack
SDShack's picture

I posted this earlier on the Russian thread, speculating that there is much more going on behind the scenes that is tying things together into something much bigger.

I think the West knows something is about to drop, and TPTB are worried big time about it. Just look at the headlines the last 48 hours. HFT is bad is all over the place. That is an absolute sea change from the last 5+ years. JPM (which is under investigation) just cancels Russian Payment Transfers in a pre-emptive strike "alledgedly" tied to US sanctions, when US sanctions don't prescribe such actions at all. Now we have Russian retaliation. All this against a backdrop of first Syria meddling, then Ukraine meddling, plus a Russian-China-India nexus potentially against the US Petrodollar. Something tells me all this posturing is in reaction to something bigger yet to come that hasn't been revealed yet. Makes me wonder what Russia has via Snowden that is possibly driving all this. Whatever it is, it must be big enough to make TPTB seriously consider war as an option given all the recent moves. 

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 23:13 | 4619916 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

SDShack, I totally agree. There are things going on under the surface that we can only guess at. But the West's irrational war fever over Ukraine makes no sense. Out of nowhere Ukriane becomes worth World War III? The west had ample warning from the Crimean Parliament that IF NATO went ahead with the violent overthrow of the elected Kiev government, Crimea would declare independence and fight to preserve it's freedom from Kiev. I read this months before NATO's final push to destroy the Kiev government via radical violence and the mass shootings of cops and protestors. YET, western media is pushing a war agenda, Poland is actually calling for war now. Western media is lying in a way I have never seen before. calling the Maidan fascists and the fact that Maidan snipers did the killings, they are calling the entire protest a peaceful non violent protest that was gunned down by Yanakovic and Russian snipers, a fact Estonian and other foreign ministers admit is a lie. Why this mad rush to war? Snowden is releasing daming stuff every week, 122 world leaders from friendly nations have had their every communication spied on, every one. Syrian Al-Qaeda have been supported by Turkish Amry troops, and Turkish government rulers have been caught trying to rig a war against Syria in which Turkey would kill it's own people. NATO death squads have begun to kill Maidan heros who seem to be too fascist now for the IMF leader of Ukraine. The NATO countries are trying to gin up war in Syria and in Ukraine. We can't know what is behind it all, but all these leaked Snowden releases and the leaked phone calls of US agents planning war in Syria and trying to force a war in Ukraine. I suspect the NATO economies are about to implode, and only a world war will bail out the rulers of NATO. It is insane, but the elites have a rational reason for pushing the world to war right at this minute.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 02:35 | 4620246 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

@SDshack and Jack B, thinking like the enemy, I like the way both of your minds work.

Insightful tangents...


Thu, 04/03/2014 - 00:52 | 4620110 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Pre-announcing a crash or just book and new exchange pimping?


My bet is on the pre-announcement of the oncoming crash. They will throw the HFT traders under the bus and place the blame on them. This is the setup to convince the public that QE Taper had nothing to do with it.


Propaganda baby...Yeah. Gotta shift the blame as the Fed are Gods.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:35 | 4620175 Seer
Seer's picture

And that GS is "shifting" toward IBEX.

They're starting fires to make tracing the evidence harder...  The entire theatrics is about distracting us from actually seeing the fire.

In broad daylight, no better way for people to NOT see.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:11 | 4618730 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

The fact is, none of the major exchanges which permit HFT (and depend on it for their survival) can say with certainty they aren’t rigged. That’s because the rigging is being done by others and practically invisible to exchange operators when they conveniently choose not to look.

In a floor exchange model, where carbon based traders and specialists interact, there is a standard and consistent protocol. It’s not perfect, but, for better or worse the protocol gets enforced by all the participants.  If someone commits a violation, everyone immediately sees it and it is stopped, because, it’s in everyone’s interest to do so and not be taken advantage of. For example: I guarantee you if some floor trader repeatedly bids size and then pulls his bid back ten times in ten seconds before he can be acted on, some other trader will punch his lights out the eleventh time it happens. In other words, get real or get out of here asshole.  

It is possible to transfer the basic model of a floor exchange to a computerized market place. That is a big part of what IEX is doing. But, that’s not what happened elsewhere in the world of HFT market making. Instead, the entire concept of a standard protocol has been abandoned by most electronic exchanges. Now anyone can come in and initiate any trading strategy or market making protocol they like, and they can change their strategy or protocol in a heartbeat any time they like. None of this ever gets seriously reviewed or challenged by the exchanges, even when there is overwhelming independent evidence that some trading practices are not only rigged, but, also illegal. As long as there is money being made by the exchange and all its service intermediaries, everyone just looks the other way.

I like Lewis’ poker game analogy. Pick anyone you like. They all boil down to the same thing. When the primary objective of a market maker is to profit instead of bringing other buyers and sellers together, it’s no longer a legitimate market making function.   

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:14 | 4618743 bam
bam's picture

guys... if your a retail investor, to avoid 99% of the HFT BS, just use a LIMIT ORDER. be patient and get filled at the price you find acceptable. never use a market order


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:25 | 4618941 object_orient
object_orient's picture

You are missing the point. This isn't about market orders and limit orders. And it really isn't about retail investors either.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:44 | 4619018 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture


With HFT there's cheating in the system, and it is going to impact EVERY order you place, no matter how you place it.

Typically market orders are taken advantage of by your own floor trader or broker, although I have to say, the last few times I've placed market orders through my online broker I've gotten what looked to me like excellent executions by all the info I, as a retail investor, could see.

I know that my broker makes fifty cents a share on me, but I've signed up for that.  I did NOT sign up for Joe Blow to take a penny off of every order I place.  My broker already provides all the liquidity that I as a retail investor need, HFT does nothing positive for me.

HFT narrows the spread at a HIGHER PRICE.  Say you're bidding for the Mona Lisa.  You bid a million dollars.  Another guy bids 1.1 million.  You bid 1.10000001 million.  You win.  Congratulations, you had a narrow spread.  So what, you still paid $100,000 more than you wanted.  That's what HFT does, it makes narrow spreads look good when they're NOT.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:13 | 4619333 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Just like Storage Wars. Lots of bidders on a storage locker, but some bid just to bid up the price, with no intention of actually winning the locker... let's call them the "pumper". The purpose is to force the winning bidder to pay more then they otherwise would have. Thus diluting the "winners" ability to bid on other later lockers that the "pumper" actually wants. So the "pumper" gets the future locker at a discount because the previous "winner" doesn't have as much cash on hand to bid on the future locker. Kind of a reverse Pump & Dump. More like Pump to shake out the bidders so the pumper can BTFD.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:57 | 4618744 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

These idiots arguing the market is not rigged clearly have not traded ever.  Or if they have ever traded they didnt pay any attention to the order book as they placed trades.  It is super obvious if you watch it.  


I think HFT is a net positive for retail investors though.  Lower commissions better tech, generally better fills vs theo price. (though that theo price is likely rigged) 

I can see why the big boys wanna go back to trading in eighths and slow it all down again.  They would rather have wider markets that are fat with insane ticket charges like the 80s.  


The problem is that HFT IS the market now or the large majority of it.  Take away that and the already light volume will go to basically zero along with the price of the e-minis.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:36 | 4619432 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

Could be me, but I dont think the HFT guys are too worried about ripping off your round lot trades.  They've got bigger fish to fry than that.

Hmm, "better fills vs [rigged] theo price" In what way exactly are they "better" if the price you're measuring against is rigged?

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 23:05 | 4619541 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Nukes are the best weapon we have, let's use 'em!"

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:17 | 4618745 Conax
Conax's picture

effed up

I wanna have this guy Lewis' baby and breastfeed it.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:19 | 4618751 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

This guy wrote Liar's Poker and Moneyball.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 08:48 | 4620708 PT
PT's picture

and The Big Short ( Inside The Doomsday Machine ).

and The Blindside.

and Boomerang.

My favourites are Liars Poker and The Big Short.  They go together.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:17 | 4618748 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Speed doesn't matter and neither does size.  Move along....

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:20 | 4618752 venturen
venturen's picture

I'll pay attention when people go to jail and companies are broken up! Till Jon Corzine goes to jail....I have no faith in this country!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:34 | 4618802 Ariadne
Ariadne's picture

Corzine has been taken to The Village. Or made into Hot Pockets, eets all de zame.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:20 | 4618756 Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

"speed matters less...."

the obvious follow up question is....."then why are firms paying so much money to co-locate?"

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:40 | 4620183 Seer
Seer's picture

Silly, eveyone knows it's "location, location, location!"  Views are better :-) </sarc>

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:20 | 4618757 fzrkid
fzrkid's picture

Anyone got a link to the vids, they are not showing on the page for me

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:29 | 4618783 Algosaurus Rex
Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:11 | 4618890 nowhereman
nowhereman's picture


Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:28 | 4618778 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Get a porch

get a rocking chair

find some snack food

learn to use the rocking chair

sit back, relax, munch

watch the show

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:30 | 4618785 DOGGONE
DOGGONE's picture

Our USA: The Public Be Suckered

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:37 | 4618805 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

not a dime of mine into this shithole of a market since 2004 when I took out to buy my 1st house. Invest in family and poeple you can look in the eye if there is a loss. Plenty of opprotunities in local market if you learn how to master due dilligence. 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 01:45 | 4620186 Seer
Seer's picture

Um... as much as I promote the notion of "walking away," if you've got a house, and you're here, it's a good chance that you're still plugged into the Matrix.  Being plugged in feeds the Matrix.

Soon, however, more and more of us will get to experience the real thing.  I really need to take up fishing! (without a boat, of course)

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:43 | 4618814 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Jeez, is that woman acting dumb, or just plain dumb?

It's so fuckin' simple. HFT's front run, get rid.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:54 | 4618834 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Stephanie is BloombergTV's version of bartriromo. Meaning, she is dumb, but at the same time very smart (former I-Banker). She acts the part as nessecary, including acting like she is dumb or smart, when everyone knows she is doing it!

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 20:40 | 4619455 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

She rarely lets her guests actually answer the question she asks them.  She actually thinks the world wants to hear what SHE has to say...rather than just look at her.   She may be book smart, but she hasn't got the sense God gave a weed.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 21:07 | 4619560 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Ohh she lets certain people talk. I remember when bloomberg did a "superstars of finance" two week promotion. She fawned over every one of them. But she asked the right question of her favorite dude who ran a fund named after a breed of horse. para from a couple of years ago. But absolutely positively no snarc. telling the true story:

Stephanie: so why did you name name your fund after horse breed "A_______" It is such a beautiful breed of horse!

Hedge fund Dude: Well when I was getting started, the world ran on fax machines. The fed, the treasury, the central banks, the rating agencies, every one had fax machines.

Stephanie: (she knew why, but continued) So what does that have to do with beautiful horses?

Hedge Fund Dude: Well, they were all obliged to send out documents in alphabetical order. So we had up to an hour of trading info over some of the bigger players further down the list.

Stephanie: Well now you can afford to own beautiful horses!

So, basically, the system has been rigged long before they pulled engineers and mathematicians out of laboratories to have them make casino games for the 0.1%

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:48 | 4618824 blueskies123
blueskies123's picture

Hi Tyler/Zerohedge,

The video clips have gone missing, I've tried a few different browsers (IE, Chrome, firefox) on Win 7 and tried a different Win 7 machine, still missing. all I get is a large blank white square, fyi. I'm guessing that the "debate" still doesn't include any mention of the much bigger rigging (pumping up) by the Fed and the Fed's QE.


Imagine where the market junkies have hung on every word of what the Fed is going to do next instead of focusing on the basics like PE ratios, real GDP forecasts.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 17:50 | 4618833 Baldrick
Baldrick's picture

you can tell that the interview with John Stewart had an effect on Lewis, when he asked the guy "why are you arguing?" looks like he didn't think to question the questioners until after last night.

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 18:05 | 4618875 olenumbersix
olenumbersix's picture

Nothing will happen except a token investigation ( like the gold market ) no problems or crimes commited here, move along please.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!