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Russia Demands NATO Answers For "Unreasonable" Eastern European Escalation

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Days after the US escalated, announcing it will be sending a Navy warship back into The Black Sea, and on the heels of NATO ordering its military planners to draft measures to beef up defenses amongst its Eastern European members, Russia is demanding answers for this escalation. As Reuters reports, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any increase in NATO's permanent presence in eastern Europe would violate a 1997 treaty on NATO-Russian cooperation: "We have addressed questions to the north Atlantic military alliance. We are not only expecting answers, but answers that will be based fully on respect for the rules we agreed on." De-Escalation-Off.

 

As Reuters reports, NATO has ordered military planners to draft measures to reassure nervous Eastern European countries - which were under Moscow's domination until the 1989 end of the Cold War - but stopped short of calls by Poland to base more forces there.

Foreign ministers from the 28-nation, U.S.-led NATO met this week to discuss responses to Russia's Crimea takeover, including sending NATO soldiers and equipment to allies in eastern Europe, holding more exercises, ensuring NATO's rapid-reaction force could deploy more quickly, and reviewing NATO's military plans.

 

Military planners will come back with detailed proposals within weeks, a NATO official said.

The Russians are not amused...

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any increase in NATO's permanent presence in eastern Europe would violate a 1997 treaty on NATO-Russian cooperation.

 

"We have addressed questions to the north Atlantic military alliance. We are not only expecting answers, but answers that will be based fully on respect for the rules we agreed on," Lavrov told reporters at a briefing with his Kazakh counterpart.

 

...

 

"It is necessary to de-escalate rhetoric which overshoots the mark and crosses into the unreasonable," he said.

 

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Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:51 | 4621358 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Rules?  What rules?"

Here Billy the Kid  kicks his wanna-be usurper in the nuts.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:53 | 4621371 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

There you go.

remember, when fraud is the status quo, possession is the law.

It's been a few years since millions of american debt slaves were sacrificed in Europe and Asia, let's see how willing they are to be again...

Tick tock motherfuckers...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:07 | 4621418 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

we aren't willing, so they better not count on us this time around.  Fuck them; pardon my French.  All we got for saving Europe's sorry ass after 2 world wars were many dead Americans and a still extremely fucked up Europe that fell head first right into Socialism regardless of what we did for them.

Yeah, I know...America has fallen into the same trap to a large extent.  Fascism is the scourge of the entire planet. 

So as I said...we aren't going to be willing to save Europe again if they can't save themselves.  We're too busy gearing up for a major battle against our own treasonous, criminal, Fascist government and the NWO globalist scum with their boot lickin' goose-stepping traitors (DHS, TSA-types) who think they're going to dominate good Americans with their tyranny.

Europe is on it's own...we've got our own Marxist Fascist scumbags to eradicate in America first. 

 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:24 | 4621458 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

one squid, many tentacles.  you think we kill the beast here and not there?  then you underestimate...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:24 | 4621459 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

well, let me start by thanking you for your intervention in the first and second world war

then, as I wrote here, let me explain that Europe spends three times as much for defense as Russia

then, please remember that we western europeans were not that keen on NATO expansion. that was Dubya's idea, and he offered EU memberships to our Eastern Brethens as a sweetener to this deal. sweet to the easterners, quite bitter to the westerners

but now they are our allies, and we have a duty of making sure they don't have nervous breakdowns about the Russians coming again. it's a treaty, remember?

sometimes, honour trumps justice. I know, it's a conservative, nationalistic sentiment, which is regularly misused by Scoundrels Wrapped In Flags

and so we'll have a few manouvers, here... let's hope there is no bastard trying to make more out of it

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:47 | 4621516 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Ghordius,

 

No offense, but there is a very good argument to be made that mindless pursuit of agreements under the banner of honour, without regard for costs and under questionable legitimacy has harmed far more people than it has helped.

After all, the entangling alliances prior to WWI is how this whole chain of events began...

Perhaps a bit less credit to the presumed 'sovereign powers' of government to make agreements binding on populations not directly referenced is warranted?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:25 | 4621972 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

of course. yet our populations, including the Russian, have huge chunks of conservatives. note 74% of Russians approving of the Return of Crimea to the Motherland

and all our conservatives like the Flags, the sovereignty of the armed republic/kingdom/polity, the National this-and-that-including-an-army, etc.

I'm just illustrating some sentiments that might look exotic, or a never-used-before Point of View

hell, for something like 200 years we had wars that were practically only manouvers, 'cause otherwise it would have been too expensive

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:56 | 4621804 Starkiller
Starkiller's picture

" as I wrote here, let me explain that Europe spends three times as much for defense as Russia"

 

...and have three times less defense capability than Russia, and zero projection capability.

 

Why is that? Because we are entangled in the US military complex, payng ten times the cost of every bullet; and because a big part of the spending is NATO-Oriented; that is, to fortify the projection capability of US, not our own defences.

 

In my country there are some NATO bases of zero utility for our country defense, maintained by our army only as a US Air Force stepladder. Hell, some of that bases (Moron) are in specifically vulnerable areas (from a defense point of view) from our more hostile neighbour, Morocco, so, in a scenery of global conflict, if spain negate the use of the base to US, the region can be take by force by Morocco, a very US-friendly country.

 

So, EU can spend three times more than Russia in defense, but we get a very poor bang for our bucks.

 

 

And sorry, but EU haven't a treaty with NATO. EU is, literally, military occupied by US. That is very different.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:30 | 4621996 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

only this: Russia can't invade us. We can't invade Russia. Since neither is really keen on that, I find it a perfect solution

and our Eastern Peers were literally military occupied by the USSR. so? nothing new on this continent

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:36 | 4622028 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

NATO is used by the US to place an overlay on the EU structure to stop Europe developing outside US control. The fear of Europe + Russia dominating Eurasia is too great for the US to permit it to happen.

NATO was designed "to keep the Americans in, the Germans down, and the Russians out"........now it is being used to keep Europe on a short leash and Russia isolated

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:44 | 4621506 Zerozen
Zerozen's picture

"all we got"

You should be happy the U.S. got to fight in WW2. Of all major combatants, the US paid by far the smallest price in terms of casualties but pretty much inherited the world as war booty. The industrial competition completely destroyed itself leaving American industry to rule the global economy and export to everyone; the petrodollar was established; the U.S. got to station its military in dozens of countries; no invasion or damage to U.S. infrastructure or civilian lives lost; etc. etc. The American golden years of the 50s and 60s were largely a product of WW2.

BTW 70% of the fighting in Europe was done on the Eastern Front. The heavy lifting in beating the Nazis was done by the Soviets.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:42 | 4621743 Starkiller
Starkiller's picture

Last time you "save" us from german occupation, only to end occupied by American AND germans.

 

I think this time I'll take my chances...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:07 | 4621885 snusnufreak
snusnufreak's picture

I suggest you revisit middle school history before making statements about saving the europe. Europe was saved mostly because of Russia. US participated in WW1 since 1917 - right at the very end, the war itself started way back in 1914. In WW2 your pussy allies opened up western front in june of 1944 - only when it was pretty damn obvious that Hitler won't defeat Russia, which had been involved in action since 1941 and by 1944 already lost dead more than 20 million people.  

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:24 | 4621968 Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

Dear Zero felllas, this needs to go viral!

 

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.cz/2014/04/obama-diagnosis-through-humor-s...

 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 17:39 | 4622738 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

That's fucking beautiful!!!

Thx

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:36 | 4621480 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

i respect both of ya'll for sayin what u say BUT -

as long as u stay inplanted in their debt based currency paradigm to any extent other than what is absolutely neccessary ur words r meaningless...

the MoneyChangers can only be destroyed by abandoning their paper paradigm an accumulating the only 2 forms or real money...

THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL FUCK THEM UP PROPER!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:07 | 4621417 gjp
gjp's picture

There's only one rule, the same rule America has been playing by since day one: might makes right.

The rest is just sanctimonious posing.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:47 | 4621359 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

Russia -

just dump dollars already and quit pussy footin'...

fuck.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:53 | 4621372 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Dear Russians, repeat after me:

 

GAS FOR GOLD.  OIL FOR GOLD.  Fuck the Petro-Dollar!  Fuck the fiat-Dollar!

GAS FOR GOLD.  OIL FOR GOLD.  Fuck the Petro-Dollar!  Fuck the fiat-Dollar!

GAS FOR GOLD.  OIL FOR GOLD.  Fuck the Petro-Dollar!  Fuck the fiat-Dollar!

...

You seeing a pattern here?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:36 | 4621484 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Let them dump the fiat-Dollar. It will not hurt it that much in the short term. Sorry, to bust your bubble folks.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:56 | 4621378 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Patience..

Some here laughed at the 20Bil deal between Russia/Iran

Watch Zero and crew miscalculate yet again, resulting in a Russian/Chinese deal of 400Bil, not to mention sophisticated military hardware sales to anyone with a checkbook...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:13 | 4621613 furgheddubouddit
furgheddubouddit's picture

Next exclusive deal will be done with China.

Then India.

That's more than 1/3 of the global population locked up in lucrative Russian contracts right there.

Add to that then the continued gas supply to Europe, which the Euro's under no circumstance can give up lest they wish to freeze to death during the winter.

So much for 'isolation'.

It seems the more the US attempts to isolate Russia, the more it ends up isolating itself.

And given that the entire 'American dream' is based on nothing more than a giant pile of debt, and a printing press, it could well come back to bite us......

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:11 | 4621907 813kml
813kml's picture

I would love to see the next gen iPhone released exclusively in BRICS countries.  Apple is an opportunist, after all.

That would shake the US foundation to its (rotten) core.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:37 | 4622034 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Do you realize the market cap of Russian stock markets roughly equates to the market cap of Apple and Google?  You don't want to be 4 foot nothing and playing basketball against NBAers when there is no referee... 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:50 | 4621366 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

New horoscopes are up at Lunascope... (bitchez).  ;~p

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:05 | 4621401 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Curiosity made me click the link.  I found myself agreeing strongly with this statement:  'The USA is a Cancer'

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:07 | 4621884 813kml
813kml's picture

Well played.  

The US actually has many placements in Cancer.  Kind of sums everything up...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:12 | 4621373 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any increase in NATO's permanent presence in eastern Europe would violate a 1997 treaty on NATO-Russian cooperation."

Lavrov is correct, yet not complete. It's a question of which treaties are going to be upheld, including the one about... Crimea

Fact is that the whole north-east sector is not amused, and would have manouvers now even if not in the NATO

And when I say the whole sector, I'm not only talking about Poland, the Baltics and Finnland. This includes Sweden

------ added:

at the end, it's a tribal thing. manouvers of this kind are the equivalent of thumping your chest and roaring loudly

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:21 | 4621645 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Have you heard of any hysterical Finns screaming in front of cameras for NATO to come and save their sorry ass from Russian aggression? Well neither have I, although it's Finland that should be most "frightened" of the manner in which The Bear "annexed" Crimea. On the other side you have "viking" Swedes soiling their pants in publc because 'the Russians are coming'... 

I'd suggest you don't play into these games of theirs, it's all for domestic public consumption purposes. Don't forget who Carl Bildt is (and see this) and what his agenda is.

 

Also, speaking of treaties, riddle me this Ghordo: if EU/US/ZATO are so into rule of law and respecting treaties, then why is it they never condemned Banderastan nazi thugs for disrespecting the Agreement of 21st of February?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:34 | 4622020 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Okay, I'll bite and take one for the team... What is the agreement of 21st of February?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:54 | 4621374 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Bullish:  Palladium.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:55 | 4621377 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

It's a mistake for Russia to ask these questions.  It shows weakness on Russia's part.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 11:59 | 4621390 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Not so sure.  Russia has been decisive in its actions as a companion to this obvious question.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:15 | 4621431 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

I agree Russia has been decisive.  They want to portray themselves as a prime player, sitting at the table.

Now is not the time to ask ... What are you guys doing?  Any reasonable person would have forecast this reaction.  Russia asking questions shows lack of fore thought, or indesicion in dealing with this issue at the next level. 

Russia asked the question because they were made to feel "uncomfortable".  Their reaction signals weakness.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:20 | 4621448 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Russia knows not to ask questions they don't know the answer to already. This is theater.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:49 | 4621524 cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

Theater that is aimed at the upcoming April 10 meeting in Washington of the G20 Finance and Central Bank group. And what are they discussing? I would bet that the major topic will be the IMF 2010 Code of Reforms that the US Congress refuses to look at or pass and which all other members have ratified.

Here is an excerpt from a great blog on the subject:

"The United States is the last hold out on the Reforms.  The Congress has to pass the legislation in order for the 2010 Code of Reforms to be fully enacted and the required changes to the Executive Board of the I.M.F. completed.  As some of you may have already guessed, and not to put too fine a point on this, the Reforms will allow for the following things to happen:

  1. Restructure U.S. sovereign debt. (other countries as well)
  2. Final payout on historical bonds.
  3. Revaluation of currencies.
  4. Preliminary SDR bond agreements.
  5. Soft landing for stock markets.

From there the real work will begin as SDR allocation sites are strategically located.  As stated previous, the “restructured” Fed will issue SDR securities along with the World Bank, European Central Bank, and the BRICS Development Bank.  There will be others but those are the core institutions."

http://philosophyofmetrics.com/2014/02/06/sdrs-and-the-new-bretton-woods-part-four/ 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:32 | 4622010 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

There never will be SDRs.  Why would China want them?  China is looking for the same benefit that the US has.  India knows this.  So do the Russians.  They simply want their piece of the pie to manipulate as they see fit.

The IMF has no future.  Everyone knows this.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 17:31 | 4622691 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

.

There never will be SDRs

 

Dude, seriously, ya gotta stop thinking in terms of absolutes.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:24 | 4621456 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

And here I thought you were parodying President "Russia invaded Crimea out of weakness" Obama.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:42 | 4621499 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

a regional power who invaded them out of weakness no less.

 

LMAOnade anyone?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:57 | 4621554 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

It's 'de rigueur', protocol - the Russians aren't anxiously awaiting answers to the questions so they can plan their next move, they just have to ask so their next move will have proper justification within the script.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:23 | 4621962 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

'de rigeur' protocol is for surrender monkeys.  That's my point.  Russia shouldn't have asked the question.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:56 | 4621551 Leaping Lizard
Leaping Lizard's picture

Actually, Putin has been incredibly careful to dot the i's and cross the t's of international laws and treaties.  This fact is lost sight of with the pressitutes in the west gibbering on about the Russian "INVASION" of Ukraine.  As far as I can see, not one additional Russian soldier has entered Ukraine (or the Crimea for that matter), beyond what the treaties allowed them to have at their Crimea bases.  OTOH, what Nudelman and her neoNazi snipers did in Kiev was quite "illegal."  Also NATO promised Russia back in the early 90's that they would not enlist the former Warsaw pact countries in NATO.  We see where that promise has gone.  While the pressitutes like to present Putin as a KGB thug, I cannot see one action on his part since the Zionist banksters pulled off their putsch which was either illegal or unethical.

And Tylers, please do not parrot the pressitute meme of INVASION in your own copy unless you are willing to back it up with facts.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:01 | 4621568 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Which part of that treaty allowed the Russian Soldier based in Ukraine to partrol the streets?  Which part allowed them to attack the Ukrainians?

The statement that Russia faithfully upheld the treaty is a mockery no matter what the crazy, nazi western Ukrainians did.

Your assertion that this was all according to treaty begs the question, "So, then, what good are treaties?"

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:28 | 4621991 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

"Nuance" is not Russia's debating style.  If you believe in "Strength", show strength.  I think everyone understands the surrender dance of diplomacy, but to try to match the european masters step for step is a mistake.

Who cares if NATO promised Russia they would not enlist former Warsaw pact countries!  What do you think EU membership entails?  Do you think the Russians are really that stupid? I don't. 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 15:38 | 4622305 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

NOT a mistake - there are only two answers to the question - that NATO will leave after the military exercise in Ukraine -or- they will NOT - this is a way of creating pretext for action - Preempting by asking and demanding time sensitive answer that they "will" leave - if not then a quick response

then the russian answer is set up the referendum in the south and east and then "protect" the citizens post federation alignment - Before Summer games start - much harder to throw NATO out then set up a gate and a wall of defense

if they say they will leave then - do you beleive them? - I would never ever believe OBAMA on anything so sensitive - He Lies!

and Lavrov is much better at reading tea leaves than Kerry

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:00 | 4621392 PlusTic
PlusTic's picture

this is just the daily excuse to get oil a buck off the lows...happens everyday... Putin wins again

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:02 | 4621396 Old Man River
Old Man River's picture

Not 24 dadgum hours past since the whole Fort Hood deal and this son of a gun wants to get back in your dang face. These war-minded folks is like boogers you can't thump off.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:06 | 4621413 b_thunder
b_thunder's picture

"Russia is demanding answers"  - Or what?  What are they going to do?  Build a nuclear reactor in Iran and buy Iran's oil? Raise gas prices?  Invade a sovereign country and threaten more invasions?  They've already done all of that! The worst they can do is more of the same, which is what they intend to do anyway.

"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any increase in NATO's permanent presence in eastern Europe would violate a 1997 treaty on NATO-Russian cooperation."  - And what about invading the country that you promised to protect?  If yu behave like Molotov, the West has a right to behave like Ribbentropp.

"We have addressed questions to the north Atlantic military alliance. We are not only expecting answers, but answers that will be based fully on respect for the rules we agreed on," Lavrov told reporters.'' - LOL.  Who cares what lavrov says?  He's basically a spokesman, he says what he's told to say. He has no authority to influence polic. He has no idea what Putin is about to do next. Only Putin and ex-KGB friends know for sure.  Lavrov is an outsider to them.

 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:09 | 4621426 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Sell nuclear missiles to Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:00 | 4621567 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Thanks for putting out the standard MSM propaganda response.  If you don't work as an editorial writer for a major news outlet you should consider applying.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:31 | 4621999 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Seems more like a Pukin fan club in here than an investment board.

 

Anyone who suggests that he is less than the messiah gets shouted down.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:40 | 4622053 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Welcome to Fight Club bitch!

You wanna express your opinion? Then STFU and take it like a man.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 17:28 | 4622678 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

GFY. That said, Obama is lowest common denominator, so in weighing all the respective characteristics of the dominant leaders on the world stage, Putin tends to shine a bit brighter if for no other reason that he appears to be motivated by what is good for Mother Russia, not the NWO. Everyone else is in a full-metal circle jerk around the gaping maw of the abyss.

Would I want to live under Putin's regime - hell no. He does, however, make a damn fine monkey wrench in the Machiavellian bullshit that passes for *cough* diplomacy. Putin is not the enemy to freedom to the average American on the street. That dubious distinction belongs to the cocksuckers in Vichy DC and their goddamned twisted-fuck minions - which you smell like.

 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 15:41 | 4622324 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

youre a clown!

Lavrov is the ultimate insider - Kerry is a condiment

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:09 | 4621421 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

British troops to mobilise in joint Nato military exercises in eastern Europe

 

 

The UK is preparing to send troops to take part in joint Nato war games in Eastern Europe in response to Russia’s ongoing actions against Ukraine, the Defence Secretary has said.

Philip Hammond said British typhoon aircraft would likely be based in Estonia to help police the skies around the Baltic sea, as part of a commitment to “greater participation in exercises in the Baltic States”.

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ukraine-crisis-british-tr...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:20 | 4621447 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Every military man wants to go there.  This is an opportunity.  If Russia's intention is to re-create the Soviet Union, there will be a shooting war.  You may as well be there from the start.

I think Russia sees itself re-constituting the Byzantine empire, with Moscow replacing Constantinople.  If that is the case, the liver-eaters need to watch out.  I expect this is a needed phase of the reformation of Islam.

Sat, 04/05/2014 - 13:14 | 4621815 813kml
813kml's picture

I admire your optimism, I didn't realize that a heightened risk of getting lead pumped through your body could be viewed as an "opportunity".

The obvious question is 'Why would Russia want to recreate the Soviet Union?'.  The Soviet Union was an unwieldy mess that was difficult to defend and impossible to govern.  By your thinking, Britain is just waiting for the chance to subjugate India and Portugal is dying to invade Brazil.

Be happy for Russia, they won Crimea fair and square.  The only shots fired were vodka.  Crimea has deep cultural significance to Russia and is also their Hawaii (everything's relative).  Let the Russian people feel some pride, they deserve it.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:22 | 4621651 mrmister
mrmister's picture

What if all british troops go to line up on the Ukranian border and while they are gone the hordes of Muslim foreigners in the UK take over their country and burn it to the ground? Britain has too many problems to even get involved in this.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:53 | 4622110 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Thing is, Tony, I'm very unclear on where the resources are all going to come from the way the military has been sliced and diced.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:28 | 4621454 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Yes General 'Jew'love reporting for duty Sir.  Perhaps someone needs to tap the good General on the shoulder with this bit of good news depending on if you want to avoid starting a World War?

So when and where do I report for my last tour of duty and destiny with the "body bag"?

So proud of my "upside down" flag!!!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:41 | 4621742 813kml
813kml's picture

That was a nice piece on the absence of Russian military buildup.  MSM does some actual reporting once in awhile, and then it gets buried deep on their websites.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:37 | 4621490 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

"Russia is demanding answers"

If you invade one of your neighbors, then hold a referendum while openly supressing dissention by means of an army in the street, how can you be suprised if your other neighbors want help to arm themselves?

I'm not saying that the West in general, and the US in particular haven't been meddlesome retards in the Ukraine.  But, for heaven's sake, you invade a neighbor and pretend confusion when your other neighbors get nervous?

It is time to put that vodka bottle down.  You are acting crazy.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:59 | 4621560 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

gcj

I think you left out the part about the foreign interests installing an illegitimate government violating all of it's treaty obligations that span more than 17 years and declaring the rascist Neo-Nazi government that used lethal force to take over "legitimate"...

If you happen to be military and gearing up for either Poland or Romania brother this Vodka is for you...

You'll be needing it!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:22 | 4621617 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Nah!

That was the flirting part. I mentioned.

And by the way, there is a big difference between 'flirting' and 'installing'.  In the first you make a bunch of promises and inuendos supported by a few strategic strokes.  The second is a more penetrating affair altogether. 

There is no reason to assume anything has been installed yet, hence no reason for everyone to intervene in the bickering couple's affairs.

 

I am in the military, and my Russian father-in-law brought me the vodka last week.

The logical error everyone is making is the presumption that if one side is wrong that the other must be right.

No.  They are both wrong.

 

Moreover...  What so many presume, that Western Ukrainian dissent from and fear of Russia is the imaginary creature of the CIA, is flatly and simply wrong.  Hear this.

On Saturday my wife - who is a Russian immigrant - and her friends - who are also Russian immigrants - attended a party.  I was there.

What was the main topic of discussion?  Their Ukrainian friends - who are also immigrants - and would no longer talk to them.

Why do people think relations between nations to be simpler and more black-and-white than those of the couples above?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:30 | 4621685 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

"The logical error everyone is making is the presumption that if one side is wrong that the other must be right."...

How would you react gcj if in 1991 while we were destroying that other Middle East Country we ended up invading and occupying 12 years later for it's oil killing an estimated 2 million, the Russians decided to use the KGB to promote a psyops campaign in various states of the union that had strategic commerical and military naval facilities and installed an illegitimate government that it unilaterally declared legitimate?  Let me preempt you on the NATO/EU/UN trap as we all know who owns and operates them with U.S. military bases in more than 2/3 of them. 

Hmm... Yes NATO that organization that was supposed to only carry a defensive military posture against an invading Soviet "Iron Curtain" contingent that has been replaced with a (Defensive Missile Shield) to protect Russia from incoming Iranian missiles!  Gotta love that one!!!

No worries.  You are just another Langley Dick that is worried only about a paycheck rather than the "rule of law" after 20 years of this shit!

Keep doing your fine work brother because at the pace and direction you are headed you won't need to worry about that retirement and pension much longer!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:45 | 4621734 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

A better example would be if they used the KGB to promote psyops in neighboring current or past client states....like Canada and Mexico.

What?  You think they don't?

This again does not confront the central issue I raised - that Russia's real aims are not its stated aims, and that there doesn't have to be a 'good' guy here.

Clearly no one is suprised that the West's aims are not really "Democracy" etc.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:01 | 4621772 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Where oh where are the Russian military bases in Canada, Mexico and Central America???? 

Then I guess when we remove all of our military bases and missile shields in those ex-iron curtain countries, declare an official armistice to hostilities we created and initiated -then I'll agree with your assessment.

I'm glad you raised the analogy to Canada and Mexico as it is more appropriate but Mexico and Canada don't have a "Newport News" that they share with their neighbor that have a lease that runs to 2046 and has been part of Russia's military since Katherine the Great. 

"Clearly no one is suprised that the West's aims are not really "Democracy""...

No I should say that it has nothing to do with providing generous democratic freedoms to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, West Africa... and that we no longer enjoy even in our own Country... 

Thanks for at least pointing out that you have no shame!

 

 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:05 | 4621869 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

They are currently in Venuzuela, talking about Cuba, and a few other parts of central America.

Shame? For what?  For pointing out that Russia is also not so pristine in these matters?  That is shameful?  Why? 

Honestly, didn't you already know that?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:36 | 4622026 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

They are currently in Venuzuela, talking about Cuba, and a few other parts of central America.

Talking and having are two entirely different conditions

If I were Russia and China? Damn straight I'd be parking my planes, ships and nukes on their turf.  Wouldn't you?... Shhh... Don't answer that one!

Suffice it to say Stalin and Khrushchev called it correctly when they called into questions the West's motivations. 

And we're proving that they were both spot on with our actions every single day 69 years later!!!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:00 | 4621845 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Entities in Europe- and not the US - are the prime movers behind maidan. They are the same people behind the Nabucco pipeline project.

Just as the prime movers behind Putin's actions in the Ukraine are GAZPROM and the Russian Navy.

It is positively easy to follow the dots.

The presumption that governments are behind all of this rather than simply the faces put on the front of it displays a shocking naivete about how nations work.

Sure, the governments are sociopaths.  But they are also as often the puppets as the puppet masters.

This is a geopolitical struggle between energy producing regions, specifically Eurasia, Asia proper, and Africa. 

Russia has been trying to corral Asia in its corner using a combination of deals and threats - specifically to Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and Georgia.

Africa - with the Saudi Arabian peninsula in the driver's seat have been trying to broaden their market and build coalitions with loyalty to the middle east rather than to themselves or to either Russia or the US.  This is why all the halmarks of the Arab Spring are in Syria, and many also shared in the Maidan.

Yet the US is not strengthening its alliance with Saudi Arabia.  In fact, relations have never been colder.

This is not an indication of a US leadership position in these events. 

And they are clearly connected events.  Just plot all the proposed pipelines in Google Earth.  It looks like a roll calll of instability over the last 5 years, with nearly every terminal site having had either a revolution or a foreign invasion - or a combination - since the 2008 Gas Crisis.

So, sorry, if you are getting your news from the media, you are not going to know what is happening.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:24 | 4621971 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

You keep forgetting that you're part of a bankrupt enterprise that no longer can sustain it's hegemony with 900 to 1,000 + military bases worldwide?  Are you suggesting that our reserve currency status is going to continue????

Yes I understand that Russia and China have their geopolitical interests and I might add in there "own neighborhoods" how bout we take a queue and stick to ours for a change?  If you think the Russians are going to simply hand over the most lucrative natural resource they have inside their own Country through idle threats you're on Crack!  This ain't Afghanistan and Iraq partner, and we’re about to get the sting on the end of our noses and chins that we haven’t had in at least 63 years or perhaps much worse if the lunatics that run it continue to be frustrated in the attempt of corralling it all for themselves.

I might also add that those routes through Afghanistan the U.S. military use to enjoy in there once less strained relationship with Russia has all but evaporated thanks to those wonderful economic sanctions we keep throwing at them.

Speaking of getting news from the usual suspects... What's your excuse?

I think your time would be better served on the MSM notables or The Diplomat which occasionally makes it's ugly appearance here as a means for ridicule and derision at their expense which  it deserves. If your .gov job runs out of money like it is everywhere in the Federal sector should yyou return home in one piece you might want to try them out for employment.

 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:09 | 4621593 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

For all those who gave the above a thumbs down...

 

So, at a couple's party one of the couples starts having a fight.  The woman to fighting couples' left starts flirting with the husband in the fight. Then the couple from the right kicks the husband's nuts and walks off with both his, and his opponent's wife.

Answer honestly, how many of you would stand in front of you wife and protect your nuts?

 

We all know the answer.  So quit acting suprised that everyone in Eastern Europe is doing the same thing.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:22 | 4621649 Zerozen
Zerozen's picture

That analogy only works if the arguing woman (Crimea) is not actually married to the arguing man (Ukraine), they're more like boyfriend/girlfriend in a bad relationship, she can't stand his guts, and is already banging the guy that she's about to leave the party with...just as soon as he kicks her dick boyfriend in the nads.

And even then, it's not a very good analogy.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:35 | 4621716 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

But you would still protect your nuts and stand in front of your girlfriend.

 

Eastern Europe being nervous is to be expected and is not a sign of anything.  So, what purpose does Lavrov's question serve?

Just because you don't take Obummer at face value does not mean you should take Pukin at face value.

 

GO LONG GAS.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:25 | 4621630 Zerozen
Zerozen's picture

The referendum vote in Crimea had been scheduled already before all the STHF in Ukraine. It just got moved up once the coup happened.

This was hardly an invasion, Crimea has been completely Russian-populated for a couple of centuries. Russia already had military forces legally stationed in Crimea ever since the USSR collapsed. They have more claim to it than the Ukes do.

All that happened is the border between Ukraine/Russia was redrawn closer to where it really should be to begin with.

Also, you should be reminded that the prime mover, the catalyst in this round of geopolitical chess, was not an unprovoked "invasion" by Russia - it was the Western-backed overthrow of an elected government in Kiev which was replaced by a West-friendly Russophobic government.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:32 | 4621697 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Why was it moved up?

 

The Russian Army was already there.  Ukrainians cannot take Crimea.  Yes, most of Crimea is Russian, but why brutalize your tartar and Ukrainian neighbors by shoving guns in their faces, breaking up their gatherings, etc?  What was the impetus of the rescheduling?  Gaining nothing and changing nothing, why do it?

It equals GAS not DEMOCRACY.

96% of people won't even vote that the sky is blue.  Yet 96% want to be part of Russia?  (About 8% in any population will dissent from any question.) 

It is a signal of manipulation. 

Were Russia's interests what they proclaim them to be there would be no drawback in waiting until the May elections and then doing the Crimea referendum.

What is different by doing it now?

Again, presuming the CIA to be corrupt DOES NOT MEAN that the KGB is not equally corrupt.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 15:12 | 4622199 Haager
Haager's picture

I'd like to recitate something of either Forrest Gump or Dumb & Dumber. I'm just a little indecisive, but I tend to use something of the latter.

 

Any suggestions?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:42 | 4621502 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Tanks for Memories Da?

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:50 | 4621529 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

Barry is a pussy and a fucking asshole.

 

Putin is a nasty piece of shit and a fucking asshole.

 

Wake me up when it's over. 

 

FUCK YOU BARRY AND FUCK YOU PUTIN!!!!!  FUCKING GUBERMINT TROUBLEMAKERS CAUSE YOU FUCKED UP THE ECONOMY - AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 12:50 | 4621530 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Calm down,

 

The lesson of the Mongol Horde is that the more widespread the conquest and brutality a regime perpetrates, the quicker will be its collapse under the weight of intrigues and corruption.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 15:48 | 4622359 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture
you are a joke
Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:52 | 4621792 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

It's like being nine years old again on the fucking playground.

Time for dodgeball.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 13:57 | 4621823 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Saw an innocent looking #unitedforukraine blurb on local news this morning. After some tweet screen shots it ended- almost... But the last image on the screen was a military Jet flying across the screen before it faded back to the anchors...

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:00 | 4621828 esum
esum's picture

one would assume that the "agreement" between russia and nato would have included the proviso russia not occupy or annex.... or hold rigged elections in a  soverign territory... and exactly when will there be free elections in ukraine, after whcih the secession of crimea can be dealt with... one way or another... the ukraine govt is not duely elected and is taking harsh measures against sectors of its populace.. but i guess that is OK if the ones getting the shaft dont agree with the IMF or EU or NATO ... right ??????? the same ones that got ukraine "free" of the russian puppet in the first place... 

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:24 | 4621970 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

"... the ukraine govt is not duely elected and is taking harsh measures against sectors of its populace.."

 

As near as I can tell that has been true since 1917.  But it is neither here nor there.

At what point exactly did I promote the IMF, the EU or NATO?  In what way, exactly, does pointing out Russia' hands are ALSO not clean, promote any of those three entities?

So this is about wearing a Russian Jersey or an IMF/EU/NATO jersey?

All the intelligence of a football match with none of the athletics.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 14:02 | 4621856 fukidontknow
fukidontknow's picture

Stupid Poles - don't they remember what happened to them the last time they sought assurances from the west.

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