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The Father Of High Speed Trading Speaks: "The Market We Created Is A Casino; A Complete Mess; A Rigged Game"

Tyler Durden's picture


While simplistic economist hacks and conflicted industry practitioners who stand to lose their entire revenue stream should HFT be liquidated, not to mention pagreview trolling journos, are suddenly not only experts in HFT, but are convinced allegations that high frequency trading rigs markets are blown out of proportion, here is what one of the actual pioneers of, and erstwhile legends in, computerized trading - the billionaire founder of Timber Hill and Interactive Brokers Thomas Peterffy - the man NPR dubbed the "father of high-speed trading" has to say.

The following excerpt is courtesy of Scott Patterson's book Dark Pools: The Rise of the Machine Traders and the Rigging of the U.S. Stock Market, which largely covers the same subject matter as Michael Lewis (and well before), and which has been profiled here previously.

* * *

On the morning of October 11, 2010, Thomas Peterffy stepped onto the dais of the ornate Opéra Salon on the ground floor of the Inter-continental Le Grand Hôtel in Paris. It was a gala event, the fiftieth annual meeting of the World Federation of Exchanges. Attendees included Bill Brodsky, chairman of the Chicago Board Options Exchange, the NYSE's Duncan Niederauer, Christine Lagarde, French minister for the economy and future head of the International Monetary Fund, Nasdaq CEO Bob Greifeld, and Atsushi Saito, CEO of the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

The speaker who would set off the most fireworks was Peterffy, the founder of Timber Hill, one of early users of Island. He looked out over the podium at the upturned faces of his peers and grimaced.

Peterffy had become extremely disillusioned with the market he'd helped create. It wasn't just the deceptive tactics of firms like Trillium, it was the unregulated speed traders who were picking off his own firm's orders, with no firm obligation to stick in the market during tough times. The stock market had been turned into a Wild West of dueling algos -- and some firms, it seemed, had special advantages. Like Haim Bodek at Trading Machines, Peterffy was steamed that his orders were getting clipped time and time again. He wasn't going to take the abuse without fighting back.

He cleared his throat, adjusted his glasses, and launched into his speech.

"An exchange used to be a place, yes, a physical place, where people would come together to buy or sell, hoping to achieve the best price for themselves," he said. "The more the exchange was able to attract all of the buy and sell interests in a product, the more the prices on the exchange would reflect the true state of supply and demand."

It was the old mantra: liquidity breeds liquidity. But something had changed.

"In the last twenty years came computers, electronic communications, electronic exchanges, dark pools, flash orders, multiple exchanges, alternative trading venues, direct access brokers, OTC derivatives, high-frequency traders ... Reg NMS in the U.S. -- and what we have today is a complete mess."

He looked out at the crowd. Dead silence. Peterffy hadn't bothered to warm the audience up with a joke, a humorous anecdote. He cut straight to the point -- and most in that room didn't like what he was saying.

"It is not so much anymore that the public does not trust their brokers. They do not trust the markets, the exchanges, or the regulators either. And why should they, given our showing the past few years? To the public the financial markets may increasingly seem like a casino, except that the casino is more transparent and simpler to understand."

Visible tension spread through the room. Did Thomas Peterffy just call the market a casino? That was an attack they might have expected from the likes of Arnuk and Saluzzi or Senator Ted Kaufman -- but from the founder of Timber Hill and Interactive Brokers, the godfather of electronic trading?

Peterffy, of course, was fully aware that his words seemed to contradict his own history.

"I must confess to you that I was an ardent proponent of bringing technology to trading and brokerage. Unfortunately, I only saw the good sides. I saw how electronic trading and record-keeping could be used to force people to be more honest, to make the process more efficient, to lower transaction costs and to bring liquidity to the markets. I did not see the forces of fragmentation and the opportunity for people to use technology to keep to the letter but avoid the spirit of the rules -- creating the current crisis."

He gazed out at his audience. Peterffy wasn't shocked to see the stern faces, the shaking heads and averted eyes. He was certain that he'd become their enemy -- and he had little hope that they would listen. The computer-trading elite would never admit that the markets they'd created were deeply flawed. Still, he kept hammering away.

"It is vitally important that we bring an end to this crisis of trust before it spreads any further. That we bring back order, fair dealing, and trust in the marketplace. The financial markets of ... the world's developed countries are at a turning point. Technology, market structure, and new products have evolved more quickly than our capacity to understand or control them. The result has been a series of crises over the past few years that have caused many investors to lose confidence or to think that the whole system is a rigged game."

After Peterffy finished speaking, there was silence. Then a scattered handclap. And then the room burst into loud applause.

Everyone realized: Peterffy had actually done it -- he'd come out and said what so many were thinking, what they all knew deep down. The market was a complete mess. And the old guy was the only one with the balls to stand up there and call a spade a spade.

* * *

Peterffy's full speech can be read below (pdf)


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Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:47 | 4633868 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Takes one to know one, I guess.  If anyone can see the market is a rigged casino, the guy that helped unknowingly create it is as good a candidate as any.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:51 | 4633886 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

I heard Jamie and Lloyd are shocked too

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:56 | 4633901 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Like any casino, on Wall Street the house always wins.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:06 | 4633936 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

Rigged Casino = Doing G-d's Work

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:16 | 4633960 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Four years later and......................................


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:31 | 4634017 Serfs Up
Serfs Up's picture is coming.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:07 | 4634120 weburke
weburke's picture

"but it is the shareholders or taxpayers that pay for the overpriced derivatives"  oh, I see, all this drama is for taxpayers? share-holders- ?    nonsense. some other agenda here.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:12 | 4634145 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture



A Day Late,


And a Dollar Short



Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:31 | 4634201 Vice
Vice's picture

Finally some fucking recognition for Patterson, which revealed this whole fiasco WELL before Lewis, yet Lewis gets all the fame and fortune. 


Connections to Hollywood sure come with benefits. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:50 | 4634245 quintago
quintago's picture

Take a seat right next to our own microwave tower owner....


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:38 | 4634385 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Dude it's not just the markets that are rigged. The whole F-cking system is rigged!

The Story of Your Enslavement

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:03 | 4634443 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

" to keep to the letter but avoid the spirit of the rules -- creating the current crisis...."

He could be talking about anything/everything "corrupt."

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:05 | 4634454 e2thex
e2thex's picture



" keep to the letter but avoid the spirit...."

Someone knows how to move the language.  The last commentator who could do that was Eric Sevareid.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:43 | 4634554 I_Am_
I_Am_'s picture


brilliant observation......

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 23:01 | 4634592 mccvilb
mccvilb's picture

i don't think the markets are rigged. I KNOW THE MARKETS ARE RIGGED.

How do I know this? Because securities laws are systematically being broken and no one goes to jail.

Because money is systematically being stolen by executives and BODs from shareholders and by broker/dealers from investors and nobody protects the shareholders or the investors.

The markets are very transparent. That about summarizes the definition of transparency in the markets.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:23 | 4633989 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea you need at least 48 IQ to tackle the casino, that's way more than we offer these days.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:56 | 4633903 bania
bania's picture

Nothing like having your Jesus Moment after banking a few billion.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:02 | 4633922 new game
new game's picture

to the author of this very important notice: thanks for the timely info...

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:24 | 4634328 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

They're all tough guys once they're not in a position to do anything about it any more.  They write a book, make more money explaining exactly how they helped fuck everything up.  (Ask Harvey Pitt, for example.)

Oh, and of course, do plenty of speaking engagements.

"the fiftieth annual meeting of the World Federation of Exchanges"

That sentence right there makes me want to throw up on the keyboard.  I didn't even know there WAS a World Federation of Exchanges.  And there he is, speaking to an organization that must have known about, probably facilitated and possibly perpetuated this fraud, telling them something they already knew.  And they applaud him for that act of heroism??  

There's a lot less heroism going on here than this article implies.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:06 | 4633931 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Nothing like having your come to Torah and Talmud moment after banking a few billion.

Fixed, trust me, Jesus has nothing to do with him.  Short the same ancestry.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:15 | 4633955 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

There is just too much news about this and everyone is coming out of the wood work on this. Something must be in the other hand and it must be big because they are trying real hard to distract us with shit we already know about. Next it will be the CFTC coming out on....this.....shit........


Never mind.  

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:23 | 4633986 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Soon to be declared there wasn't any manipulation after the investigation.  Much like PMs.

Move along!

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:49 | 4634565 Blazed
Blazed's picture


Some good ole Talmud.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b)
Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:36 | 4634211 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Doubleguns - It's called the jig is up. It was inevitable. When growth stalls and then stops people get itchy and clamor for change. I liked your commentary over the years. Good to see you still blasting away.

To all here, thank you for years of service to bring light to the dark of DC and Wall St. Many seeds were planted that are now taking root. The small minority in alternative media are no longer alone.

Let's hope the long transition back to sanity does not include WW3. Keep up the pressure, the job is only half done.

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 09:26 | 4635300 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Did not realize anyone was paying attention. 


It turns out ranting and raving here is ALOT better than yelling at the TV and Radio. I get to hear others rants and raves, quite often better than mine, not just an echo of mine off the wall, AND the news is much more accurate, truthful and unbiased and awesome and.........obviously you understand. Your here!!! 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:07 | 4633937 goBackToSleep
goBackToSleep's picture

say it aint so margaret! 1000 days of consecutive wins does not a bell curve make!

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:18 | 4633966 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Oh yeah....Jamie and Lloyd are shocked all right. With a crooked little smirk on their faces.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:45 | 4634238 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

It's no smirk. It's an outright belly-laugh.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:20 | 4633970 More_sellers_th...
More_sellers_than_buyers's picture

FUCK HIM AND THE HORSE HE RODE IN ON.  He fucked it up! he squashed everyone in his way! and now I'm supposed to applaud him because he see's the monster he created? Fuck off and die asshole

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 23:00 | 4634595 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

After actually reading the article it turns out he was the one getting hosed by HFTs. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:46 | 4633870 phoolish
phoolish's picture

Like, how can ANY intelligent participant, etc., let alone the so-called "Father" not immediately see the manifest opportunities for scamming and fraud w/ such "technology?"  Those opportunities are obvious.


I suspect he only regrets being found out because now the distortions are so obscene.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:59 | 4633909 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Optimism tend to cloud the mind.

Didn't Greenscam say the banks were self-regulating because the bankers were so honest and had such expensive suits?  Most of the people who worshipped Greenscam believe him too.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:03 | 4634284 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

All "financial advisors" should dress like Navin R. Johnson.

"Step right up and win some crap!"

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:10 | 4633947 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

yup, this man is Capitalism's Oppenheimer

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 23:27 | 4634641 goBackToSleep
goBackToSleep's picture

Weapons of mass distraction. I think they may have squeezed the last nickel out of the boomers. Hope there's gold in them there pension funds. Me thinks zee Germans could comment on that one.


Round 2 and 3

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:27 | 4634361 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" - Upton Sinclair

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:48 | 4633872 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



William O'Brien is shocked, SHOCKED, that illegal gambling is going on here...



Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:25 | 4633994 negative rates
negative rates's picture

But he's not lost?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:47 | 4633876 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Most casinos aren't rigged. The house has odds, but that's not "rigged" where different participants have different advantages. Saying the market is a casino is actually an insult to casinos.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:59 | 4633911 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I would never go into a casino, buy yes, you are correct.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:05 | 4634292 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Have you been to a bank?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:23 | 4634345 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I went to a bank once.  I only have scattered, disjointed memories of it.  I think these are the memories that those who claim to have been "abducted by aliens" have ACTUALLY experienced.  Like them, I remember the anal probe quite clearly.  The rest is a bit fuzzy.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:28 | 4633998 falak pema
falak pema's picture

haha, you talk of the "theoretical" modus operandi just like for deposit banks which are the most regulated institutions in the world (not the investment and Shadow banks). 

In reality the casino is a huge front operation to skim all sorts of derivative products like hot money deals and tax evasion spiels that feed the front roulette wheel type show. Its full of brokers, just like the banks, selling inside plays to HFT dark pools. Its a den of thieves for all types of side shows like real estate scams and drug money recycling into casino operations.  

Wheels within wheels. You should talk to the Mafia boys about that. Just like Ws today and its non regulated shadow banked securitized derivatives soup. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:36 | 4634039 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

I wasn't defending casinos. My point is that if you walk into a casino you have no advantage over the guy walking in next to you. You can't pay for advantage. Casinos actually enforce a level playing field. If a participant is caught gaming the system they are banned, and not only banned from that casino, but from all casinos. By comparison the casinos are straight up, at least from the perspective of the participants. Once the money is skimmed, I agree, all sorts of corruption goes on.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:12 | 4634144 StupidEarthlings
StupidEarthlings's picture

If by level playin field you mean..everyone usually loses at the same rate..then yes..I agree.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:16 | 4634161 813kml
813kml's picture

I would say that no casinos are rigged, they are heavily regulated by the gaming control board and also self-policed.  They know that if word gets out that one casino is cheating then they would all suffer from guilt by association.  A casino license is a cash cow and difficult to come by, the risk of cheating doesn't come close to justifying the reward.

We would be fortunate if Wall Street were run like a casino.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:21 | 4634175 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Depends on your perspective.

I would say that all casinos are transparently rigged.

That people insist on losing money in casinos says more about human nature than it does about the nature of casinos.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:41 | 4634220 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

I love to gamble, and it is a rare trip indeed when I don't catch the casino cheating. The casinos steal for the same reason a thief steals. I would say all the casinos I've been to steal. I bet Charles Barkley encountered some of the best deck mechanics money can buy. Yeah, yeah, the average smuck gets cheated only occasionaly, and when it happens the smuck gets his bet back and life goes on.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:26 | 4634355 813kml
813kml's picture

I gamble too and catch mistakes (I don't complain about those in my favor), but I don't think they were intentional.  Every game either has odds in the casino's favor or provides a rake (poker, sports betting).  The casino is going to get your money, there's no need to cheat.

I'm sure there are instances of pulling a mechanic in to take down a whale or a hot streak, but overall the games are simple and the rules don't change.  Unless you're talking about slots, but they're a black hole.  Wall Street cheats consistently and changes the "rules" constantly. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:47 | 4633877 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Most inventors lose control of their creation the moment it is born. The result of that gestation is only seen with any clarity after it has been co-opted and monitized. Too late to change or abort at that point.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:09 | 4634470 blindman
blindman's picture

or, these manifest principles have a meaning and statement
beyond the personal one might ascribe
as an egoic self or identity. inventors being mere opportunist
minds in time and place entirely mischaracterized as "persons"
while chiefly being harmonic and attuned archetypes of the
lazy life strand lying on the shore, (in the form of a, hopefully
and partial, question). who remembers or gives a flying shite
concerning the phoenicians? that would be nearly no one.
anyway ... here a song ...
Deja Vu - Crosby, Stills & Nash
financialisation is a fucking banker spell denominated
and nominal in a scam embedded in an insider death scam.
as they say .... so it goes ......

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:47 | 4633878 Confused
Confused's picture



For anyone who hasn't seen it, Haim Bodek mentioned in the article:

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:48 | 4633880 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Technology will solve all problems.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:48 | 4633881 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"After Peterffy finished speaking, there was silence. Then a scattered handclap. And then the room burst into loud applause.

Everyone realized: Peterffy had actually done it -- he'd come out and said what so many were thinking, what they all knew deep down."

and nothing changed.

this would make more sense if he went home and whacked his whole family except for the Labradoodle who was clearly left as a message.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:28 | 4634514 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

fonz, aside from Congress, the regulators share most of this blame (why nothing has changed)...the SEC, CFTC and especially the FBI, have all failed in spectacular fashion.

We have all been sold down the river...and the crooks are getting away.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:48 | 4634568 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

BOP i don't look at it like they failed as much as they succeeded in becoming part of it.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 23:07 | 4634611 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yes. Money talks. Unfortunately, they have all sold their souls for it. Sure doesn't say much for integrity, honesty and responsibilty does it?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:49 | 4633882 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Ali baba! And the forty thieves. The West learns from the East of old.  

I'm sure that WS has invented new technology to achieve old aims.

Nothing new under the palm tree when you sing Open Sesame in Java or Twitter text.  

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:49 | 4633883 kurt
kurt's picture

He ain't my fatherffy.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:52 | 4633890 wallygator9999
wallygator9999's picture

A transaction tax should put this issue to rest.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:34 | 4634205 laomei
laomei's picture

How about just ending same-day position closes?  All trades must be held for a minimum of 24 hours.  There, problem solved.  Fuck the day traders who contribute nothing of value to the market.  And what the hell, dividends too, any company over X market cap must pay out dividends.  

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:27 | 4634512 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

You would have to deal with non completed trades as well, as that is half their game.  Removing the offers before the trade can commence has to be dealt with.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:53 | 4633892 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

he recognizes the RIG is up............

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:54 | 4633895 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

and he will be on CNBS in 5, 4, 3, 2........

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:55 | 4633897 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Except this was 3+ years ago,  in a galaxy far far away.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:01 | 4633920 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

3 years, 5 months, 27 days ago (or 1274 days)

And the 6 1/2 pages of text doesn't look like it was drafted the morning of the speech...

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:59 | 4633900 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It might be in his best interest to keep a healthy distance from all nail guns, and for cripes sakes check for smart cars before going into any parking garages.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:22 | 4634177 Hulk
Hulk's picture

The use of a nail gun to custom build your hot tub is certain death, especially if you drive to the hardware store in a smart car !!!

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:57 | 4633904 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

This guy needs to be capped in a parking garage too.  Not for speaking the truth but for his role in HFT.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:01 | 4633916 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

What, for trying to create a more efficient trading system? The same argument would see guns banned every time the government stages another false flag.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:02 | 4633924 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

as of today his ads were still running on the propaganda hubs...

what gives.......

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:15 | 4634157 espirit
espirit's picture

He made his timely payments to the Almighty.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:07 | 4633940 new game
new game's picture

he should be capped because he is a cheat, thief and has no ethics. the enemy within.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:07 | 4633942 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The government did not create any false flag here.  Private banks get the credit.  

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:16 | 4633959 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

No they didn't create the false flag.  The regulators, politicians, and shysters just looked the other way while it was happening.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:20 | 4633972 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No doubt.  Because they were bribed by the private banks.  The bribers get first credit, and the bribees should also pay the piper.  

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:47 | 4634078 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

One hand offers the money and another hand accepts the money: both heads attached to both hands should be forcibly removed in the town square.  

I don't give a fuck who apologized for offering or accepting; -the evil deed, and the damage from it; was done.  

Let's get this shit over with and clean house.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:04 | 4633929 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

It's nothing but the law of unintended consequences.

Like the guys who invented the a-bomb, if they didn't do it somebody else would have. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:07 | 4634131 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Send a cyborg back in time to wipe out his mother. Wait a minute that didn't work did it.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:21 | 4634337 pigs-n-space
pigs-n-space's picture

No it didnt , the series went on. Lets hope this one dosen't.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 18:59 | 4633907 Grouchy Marx
Grouchy Marx's picture

Give the guy his due for courage now, but, "I only saw the good sides"?

Looks all the world like revisionist history. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:49 | 4634084 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

"I only saw the good side of robbing You; I would have more money in my pocket when We parted company."

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:00 | 4633914 Aquarius
Aquarius's picture

Mathematics can be used to define anything in the tiny minds of economists (and all other parties) and this just about sums up the utter stupidity of transfering out ones' own mind and substituting it with a parasitical abstraction 

such as mathematics aka 'pretend smarts'. Mathematical founded "theory" are strengthen by consensual approval due to the fact that most people don't comprehend maths; they just pretend to understand, and fear that their ignorance will be exposed. Hence these theories get supported, no matter how stupid and harmful;

"Pretend-smart" mathematics is more like masturbation than anything else.

credit and source:

Girls Are Evil


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:39 | 4634051 blindman
blindman's picture

ok, i get it that girls can't be evil
even if there is a math proof but,
mastrubation can't be all that bad, no?
John Prine - Christmas in Prison - 9/14/11 HD 6
" her heart is as big as this whole
god damned jail and she's
sweeter than saccharin at a drug store sale." ...

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 09:49 | 4635364 Aquarius
Aquarius's picture

Never met a Lady (Girl) that I didn't love at first sight!


Ho hum

Wed, 04/09/2014 - 07:22 | 4638617 blindman
blindman's picture


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:23 | 4633915 Cthonic
Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:11 | 4633948 Tenshin Headache
Tenshin Headache's picture

i_call_you_my_base made an important point below. It's worse than a casino.

In a casino, the odds are generally in the house's favor, but the players themselves face the same odds in the same situation as other players.

In the market, the odds are (very) different amongst the players.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:14 | 4633949 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

"I must confess to you that I was an ardent proponent of bringing technology to trading and brokerage. Unfortunately, I only saw the good sides. I saw how electronic trading and record-keeping could be used to force people to be more honest, to make the process more efficient, to lower transaction costs and to bring liquidity to the markets. I did not see the forces of fragmentation and the opportunity for people to use technology to keep to the letter but avoid the spirit of the rules -- creating the current crisis."

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!  So altruistic!  Rewriting history is done by the victor.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:16 | 4633958 Tenshin Headache
Tenshin Headache's picture

It works for his audience. He is basically saying, "If I couldn't have seen this coming, how could any of you?"

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:17 | 4633962 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Yep, the whole while he was rubbing his hands together thinking of all the money he was going to skim.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:20 | 4633974 Stanley Lord
Stanley Lord's picture

Doesn't this whole HFT seem orchastrated? The book, 60 Minutes, USAG, now this guy.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:28 | 4634006 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

No,  lots of ideology is invested in "free markets" and "wall street" and "Mericans being Capitalist" and the rest of the bullshit.    The Soviet Union collasped only when their bullshit became too embarassing to repeat to the peasants.   Humans need, desparately, to believe in the bullshit of the past.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:31 | 4634020 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Speech is three and a half years old.  However, it now suits someone's agenda.  Possibly someone with pre-written legislation waiting to be distributed by K street?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:41 | 4634047 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

The cat is out of the bag, wrist slaps are in order. Look at the vix, still comatose, no worries its just a little hiccup.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:25 | 4633990 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

T. Peterffy, 

Cry me a fucking river of tears. We have been shouting on the top of our lungs for years. The market finally got exposed for skimming. Watch out for nail guns bitch. 


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:26 | 4634001 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Got to be the new moon, that and couple days without sunshine and a body can go nuts.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:43 | 4634058 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Give him a small ounce of credit admitting to the known flaw. He is a day late, dollar short. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:36 | 4634021 blindman
blindman's picture

in other words, please don't execute me in broad daylight
or any other permutation of light that must occur during
the 24 hour daily cycle as i was merely doing my best at the time
with what i had to work with. hmmm.. really?
it seems the bankers have more than a public relations
problem. they have a survival in "society" problem.
i suggest they stop listening to the economists for
a moment and consider "what is the nature of their survival
problem?". i, and many others more qualified than myself,
have been describing that core problem for 5 years (myself)
openly and agitatedly and also for the souls of the bankers;
many others for much longer, providing the description
of their basic self destructive path!
i don't know they deserve any further heads-up from anyone
but, we are what we are and will do what we can do to help.
one more time, it is the current debt fiat money system, at interest,
in a fractional reserve gaming pyramid shell scam where the banker
thinks he hedges his risk by selling his soul but, alas, he has
hedged nothing of value.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:45 | 4634233 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

Your forgot the big two, rehypothecation and tungsten.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:00 | 4634272 blindman
blindman's picture

i didn't forget them i just consider them
tangential and derivative. the rehype seems
an imperative to a bad structure to sustain
a failing function, like eating dirt cookies
or something. the tungsten scam, the same,
a gimmick of faux compliance made possible as
mining for industrial lighting elements offered
a waste with near credible weight characteristics
resulting in toxic streams and harbors.
where i am it is raining.
anyway poems *tm

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:34 | 4634031 silentboom
silentboom's picture

The markets are rigged but it's by the government and the Fed.  Everything else is just another spin.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:49 | 4634088 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I can sum that up in one sentence: I got mine fuck y'all.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 19:54 | 4634092 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture



Comments of Thomas Peterffy Chairman and C.E.O., Interactive Brokers Group 11 October, 2010




And since then?  Crickets?  If a speech meant to elicit change accomplished nothing, did the speech really occur?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:00 | 4634112 Diablo
Diablo's picture

Poor guy, maybe he should go count the NINE BILLION dollars he has in the bank to make himself feel better. He wasnt complaining much when he was making all that money was he????


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:05 | 4634123 mkkby
mkkby's picture

The morning after 60 Minutes broke the news to the sheeple, Interactive Brokers (Peterffy's baby) announced trading was enabled with IEX.  Hmmm.  Quite the coincidence.

This whole media blitz about HFT stinks, and is covering something up.  Either the banks have moved on to richer scams, or some false flag event will be blamed on HFT traders.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:05 | 4634124 evernewecon
evernewecon's picture



This was arguably equally impressive and brilliant.


Nuking ourselves and destroying 

the potability of 16 years

worth of Nevada's allowed take 

from the Colorado River.





Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:06 | 4634127 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

October 11th, 2010?

That was over three and a half years and 8000 Dow points ago.
Isn't the question "how do we turn it off" not that it's a casino?

And the answer of course is that you can't.

So if i can't trade against the machine..."markets only move in the upward direction" do i pay into the debt markets when my return on savings is less than one percent for actual cash?

I think the odds are a major default in the debt markets is quite high right now and indeed that is precisely what the treasury market has been flashing for some time. Clearly the Fed burst a bubble in the debt markets this time last year (again "Apple debt perfectly timing the top") but just as clearly treasuries which initially sold off on said "change in forward guidance" (does "guidance" come any other way?) have now rallied FURIOUSLY at the long end.

I think i'd be less worried about equities where i know where the liquidity is than in "The Usual Suspects" of "London Whale type" thinly trades and difficult to value financial instruments.

The idea that we're gonna have 2008 all over again...if really something beyond surreal to me. In effect "bailouts" are considered "normative" if that's the case. "Until which time something far larger than Lehman can't be paid out", I say again, "the State of Illinois."

I would call that a HIGHLY negative outcome for obvious reasons.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:13 | 4634146 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Technically it should be worse than 2008 if you really want to flush the shit out of the system.

But you're probably right.............they'll probably panic and you'll get bailed-in via your bank accounts, first born child, retirement funds and whatever fucking else you may have all the while our stressed and overworked circus in DC will cry for a pay raise.

And don't forget..................turn your guns in we need to save the precious fucking children.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:08 | 4634133 StupidEarthlings
StupidEarthlings's picture

Hmm..yeah..I thought something seemed a little off with the markets.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:09 | 4634136 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Honestly, why can't they just have an order stay open for 1 second? Just long enough for someone to actually say "Sold". You wouldn't stuff orders with fake quotes if they actually could be executed on.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:09 | 4634138 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Oh so now that the goddamn fucking clown comes clean in some bullshit confession let me fucking guess.........a slap on the wrist(or a kiss on the cheek) and the stooge gets to keep his billions and walk away leaving a disaster in the wake?? Is that what's going to happen? Please say it isn't so!

Meanwhile if one of us were to have a guilty moment and confess our sins to a judge over a shoplifting incident we could get a couple years in jail, 5 years of probation and who knows what kinds of fines.

I've straight up had it with this bullshit.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:26 | 4634186 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Well now, lookie here. The proclamation of the casino skim operation has been announced by the Godfather of HFT...I'll be more impressed if someone, anyone, is arrested, indicted, prosecuted, convicted, does jail time, or, loses their head.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 20:26 | 4634189 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Curiously what did Dimon have to say about this?

"I'm outraged"!!!


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:07 | 4634297 LetsGetPhysical
LetsGetPhysical's picture

HFT? whatever. The real "rigged" is mom & pop lose 40% in their 401k and it's tough luck.... the TBTF parasites lose 40% and they're made whole by the US taxpayer. HFT is a sideshow. 

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:12 | 4634317 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Looks like he just had a Jerry Maguire moment. How touching...

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:13 | 4634319 The Old Man
The Old Man's picture

A bullshit speech for people that believe bullshit. Bet you $100 that he loses his records from the "past" within 6 months or less. These guys are pros now. Enron and Lehman were practice. They're as big as the federal government and know it. And the dopes in DC swallow. Assholes. And we elected them. "Man oh Manichevitz", we are screwed.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:19 | 4634327 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

All this 'truth' is freaking me the fuck out!  I'm scared of what the replacement scam must be.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:24 | 4634350 1835jackson
1835jackson's picture

Pork chops taste good.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:25 | 4634354 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

I only saw the good sides... Doing gods work is never that easy.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:51 | 4634415 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

I finally understand the allegory of Pandora's box. A warning from the ancient Past. The HFT demons are not going away.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 21:57 | 4634426 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

All ponzi schemes come to an end when you run out of other people's money / taxpayers infusion.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:22 | 4634502 blindman
blindman's picture

what is money and who cares?
there two questions with no currently
available and commonly understood and
known or knowable answers. apparently
some asshole, somewhere, prints it up out
of thin air and then gives it to his whore?
the whore then gives a piece to her pimp
and he kills her frenemies and their children.
is that it, dressed in position and title?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:16 | 4634492 oUTLAWjosieWales
oUTLAWjosieWales's picture

"he'd done it..." i.e., finally allowed the rest of humanity to whiff his odiforous skanky dookie stink

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:33 | 4634531 MagicMoney
MagicMoney's picture

Skynet is coming!!

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:54 | 4634546 james.connolly
james.connolly's picture

SkyNet is Google

Skynet has been here since 1996, just like the movie Terminator.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:34 | 4634536 Notsobadwlad
Notsobadwlad's picture

The whole market is a crooked casino. But it always was. There was never a true free and fair market.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:35 | 4634537 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

No shit turn the damned things off.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:36 | 4634540 frank650
frank650's picture

There is front running going on in all markets, high frequency trading is just another way of doing it.

Markets are by nature, casinos.   Everyone is in it on a speculative basis, there is no definitive outcome.  


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:39 | 4634548 JR
JR's picture

Every once in a while a man stands up and that’s the reason that evils can be confronted. It is encouraging at this late date that there are men beginning to stand in America.

Is it better for us all that he would be silent?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:41 | 4634555 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The crypto-currency and block chain based decentralized exchanges aren't rigged......

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:49 | 4634563 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

That was 3+ years ago. Apparently it went largely unnoticed except in places like ZH, so what is afoot now in 2013 that everyone is taking a look at HFT and it is suddenly newsworthy?

When is someone going to get arrested and prosecuted, or is it just so much BS?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:50 | 4634575 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The Horse is out of the barn, now all these ass holes who left it open are telling us our horse is gone. Bloody smart these wankers.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:56 | 4634587 james.connolly
james.connolly's picture

Hell yes, it was smart,...

1.) blame computers and not people( bankers ) ...

2.) problem is now solved

3.) turn all trading over to IEX(NSA)

Live happily ever after,

Never let a good problem go by without planting a quid-pro-quo solution.


Mon, 04/07/2014 - 22:52 | 4634580 Bloodstock
Bloodstock's picture

"Everyone realized: Peterffy had actually done it -- he'd come out and said what so many were thinking, what they all knew deep down. The market was a complete mess. And the old guy was the only one with the balls to stand up there and call a spade a spade." \\\ Yeah right, haha, games up. No, hell no! The guy is either (a) naive (b) stupid as fuck (c) a liar. My money is on that he is a liar that he knew all along where this thing would go. Now he'll make some more money selling his jerk off book.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 23:05 | 4634606 blindman
blindman's picture

the glow of blind trust, take a moment.
they have found their prophet, it takes
a moment, applause ensues, oh my.
regaining trust, what an interesting concept
who said it?
"i was born at night, but it wasn't last night."
i think it was .....
let's leave that to you. if you don't or can't
know, well , what do you know about what is
going on?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 23:55 | 4634685 blindman
blindman's picture
anyway ....

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 00:53 | 4634781 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Fuck, more paper bullshit disguised as electrons. No difference, same crap.


Tue, 04/08/2014 - 03:39 | 4634900 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Sometimes it takes a rich man to stand up.

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 08:53 | 4635181 Pee Wee
Pee Wee's picture

You won't find anyone with money having a spine.  They are all flacid.

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 05:51 | 4634946 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

This April 5th Max Keiser show summarized two of the standard themes found in numerous Zero Hedge articles:

Institutionalized Stealing


 Rigged markets are running automated frauds, which have been built on top of a few hundred years of exponentially accelerating financial frauds, which were backed up by the force of governments, that were built on top of several thousand years of backing up claims with coercion.   The USA has had the fraud of private banks making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts for more than a Century. All combined, there is a runaway juggernaut of fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, in which HFT is merely the most recently added layer.

In the second part of that Keiser episode, Jim Rickards uses the phrase that "the can is being kicked upstairs." The "solution" to runaway globalized electronic frauds as the foundation of the whole political economy has been to assemble larger and larger units of political power which are responsible for backing those frauds up. The overall trajectory therefore has been always increasing systemic risks, managed by continuing to accumulate even more and bigger systemic risks.

In my opinion, there is no reasonable way to believe that anything can possibly happen than that these financial frauds will continue to operate faster, on bigger scales, for as far as that is possible. A globalized system of electronic frauds, backed by the force of government with weapons of mass destruction, is a civilization based on runaway criminal insanities. The established systems can not do anything else but make faster and bigger frauds, sustained with greater threats of force.

I can not see anywhere whatsoever where the basics that money is measurement backed by murder is going to be directly addressed, other than when the insanities of that situation have exhausted themselves, through achieving the goal of some moment of Peak Insanity Global Government, based on backing up frauds with force, which has accumulated so much collective systemic risks from doing that too much, for too long, that the final collapses into chaos are far worse than can be comprehended.

During the last week, some of the mainstream morons have noticed and addressed HFT, as a symptom of the problem, which had become so blatantly bad that they could no longer fail to notice, although the mainstream had been able to continue deliberately ignoring that for several years previously, despite many alternative media emphasizing that problem.

Numerous Zero Hedge articles have discussed how we have been "kicking the can upstairs," by accumulating higher and higher levels of collective systemic risks, on top of those systems having been able to operate more and more as electronic automations. The foundations were always backing up claims with coercions, or frauds with force. Those methods have been able to be successful throughout known human history, but simultaneously they have created a globalized systemic risk of enabling frauds to be amplified to such astronomical sizes that one can barely imagine them.

Just as it is almost impossible to fully comprehend the reality of atomic bombs, and other weapons of mass destruction, being trillions of times more powerful and capable than anything previously known in human history, it is also just as practically impossible to imagine what it means to have automated financial frauds, able to operate through globalized electronic networks, whose systemic risks have also accumulated to become many orders of magnitude greater than anything which previously existed in known human history.

Therefore, it is a GROSS UNDERstatement to say that:
"The Market We Created Is A Casino; A Complete Mess; A Rigged Game."

The full reality is trillions of times worse than that! As many previous comments pointed out, the current financial markets are way worse than casinos. The current complete mess of rigged markets are still on runaway exponential growth curves, and they apparently can not do anything else than run that out to the end of whatever is possible, by continuing to "kick the can upstairs," so that the accumulating systemic risks of automated frauds, built on the historical foundations of previous frauds, reach their global limits of having strip-mined the planet to hell.

In my opinion, it is IMPOSSIBLE for people like Thomas Peterffy, who have enjoyed success within the established systems, to understand the runaway realities that they have helped to create. The systems that they advanced, and benefited from, were always based on lies, backed by violence, which became legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, in which situation their "solutions" to breaking some laws were mostly to eventually get those laws changed, to legalize new ways through to even greater systems of organized lies, operating greater robberies. Progress in science and technology have basically enabled fraud backed by force to become globalized as a phenomenon trillions of times BIGGER than ever before in known human history. Every "solution" to the problems thereby created were to do what was causing the problems even more, or a bigger scale.

Therefore, as also many other comments previously made pointed out, having some mainstream morons belatedly recognize some of the superficial aspects of the ways that the established economic system is based on runaway frauds does not impress me much, because, what worries me more is that the attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance, that enabled those financial frauds to become exponentially growing runaway systems driving social polarization, were also, more importantly, enabling there to operate similar kinds of evil deliberate ignorance towards the runaway exponential rates of destruction of the natural world.

While our political economy operates fraudulent tokens of value, which enable a few to defraud the many, that also collectively enables us all to act with evil deliberate ignorance towards the longer term consequences of our actions upon the natural world as a whole. There too, we have made automated systems of environmental destruction, accumulating greater and greater environmental systemic risks. However, since the realm of human civilization is controlled by being able to back up frauds with force, the human activities that kind of system enables can even more so be enabled to operate within in the context of the natural world in ways which rely upon successful fraudulence, which deliberately ignores everything that it would rather deliberately ignore.

The runaway systems of privatized profits, along with socialized losses, were enabling runaway social polarization to automatically get worse, faster, as technologies backed up faster and bigger systems of force backed frauds. However, those were relatively trivial compared to the degrees to which those kinds of financial frauds facilitated successful people ignoring what they were really doing to the natural world around them. Having a faster and bigger system based on financial frauds had effects upon people which were relatively trivial compared to those upon their environment as a whole.

However, in my opinion, there is no practical political point in talking about that. There are no realistic ways to stop the runaway social polarization, and even less is there any possible way to stop the destruction of the natural world. Inside that actual context, a "father of high speed trading" was actually a father of higher frequency frauds, which enabled their sense of financial success to even more thoroughly operate attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance towards what they were really doing.

Human beings must necessarily operate as robbers in their environment, to the degree that they perceive themselves as separate from their environment. Technologies have enabled our previous systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies, to be pumped up trillions of times. Meanwhile, we were able to rationalize and justify that, through well-developed attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance and willful blindness. Those attitudes that drove runaway social polarization to grow also enabled the destruction of the natural environment even more.

Reforms to the rules regarding electronic trading would be such a pathetically inadequate response, as to provoke even more macabre humour as the most appropriate reaction, especially since there are no good reasons to believe that there ever actually will be implemented any better regulations, which would actually be enforced, to diminish the degree to which there is currently runaway financial fraud, since, in the past, every such "reform" ended up facilitating more and bigger frauds, rather than actually restricted the fraudulence.

Overall, our current political economy is based upon us being able to lie to ourselves to the maximum possible extent. That entire artificially constructed culture can not admit, nor even comprehend, its real responsibilities to operate better artificial selection systems. Therefore, as we build more and bigger fraudulent financial systems, the only apparent back-up real "corrections" which are practically possible are those which will be imposed by the forces of natural selection, upon a globalized civilization which is collectively based on runaway criminal insanities, because it was based on backing up frauds with force, which enabled those who most successfully did that within that society to continue to do even more of that, again, and again ...

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 06:57 | 4635006 Midnight Rider
Midnight Rider's picture

Those that claim HFT isn't a problem remind me of the "subprime is contained" arguement. They do not understand how the tentacles of this type of trading extend into the market.

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 08:55 | 4635173 Pee Wee
Pee Wee's picture

The entire market IS a rigged game, clueless.  HFT is "nobody saw it coming" so we can steal all your shit.

Nice try at shirking culpability.

Smart money has long exited. The only retards sticking around are taxpayers and their IRA's.

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