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It's On: Gazprom Prepares "Symbolic" Bond Issue In Chinese Yuan
Curious what the fate of the petrodollar is? Look no farther than this Interfax update blasted moments ago by Bloomberg: "Gazprom Considers 'Symbolic' Yuan Bond Issue, Interfax Says."
Bloomberg adds that the gas giant is considering proposals from potential organizers to market bonds in yuan, Interfax reports, citing people with knowledge of the matter.
- Gazprom unlikely be able to gain more than $300m due to mkt volume, newswire reports
- No mandates, deal timeline yet
- Issue may add new investors, become a “topical” public relations act amid tensions with U.S., EU
Well, yes. It's called "symbolic" for a reason. More importantly, it is a symbol of what happens when one can "create" money de novo without the presence of the world's increasingly defunct reserve currency, either secured by gas or by future cash flows, i.e., unsecured.
Confused? Read:
- Petrodollar Alert: Putin Prepares To Announce "Holy Grail" Gas Deal With China
- Russia And China About To Sign "Holy Grail" Gas Deal
- 40 Central Banks Are Betting This Will Be The Next Reserve Currency
... and the New New Normal flow of funds will suddenly become clear -
- Gazprom delivering gas to China.
- China Gazprom paying in Yuan (convertible into Rubles)
- Gazprom funding itself increasingly in Yuan.
- Russia buying Chinese goods and services in Yuan (convertible into Rubles)
And all of this with the US banker cartel completely disintermediated courtesy of the glaring absence of the USD in any of the above listed steps, or as some may call it: from the Petrodollar to the Gas-o-yuan (something 40 central banks have already figured out... just not the Fed).
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Your thinking is completely within the containing medium of Western thinking. You probably cannot imagine or think of liberalism as an ideology, but that is what it is. The moment of its success over the competing political ideologies, communism and fascism, was the beginning of its demise. A competing fourth political theory is already starting to develop in Eurasia, a political ideology and theory that will eventually contain Western post-liberalism, and possibly defeat it. Post-Liberalism is nothing more than a nihilistic Deep State trying to conquer the world with agitprop and the gun.
I have been accused of liberal thinking!
All farce has run its course. My day is complete. Now to beers ...
Here it comes.
I was wondering what the Ukraine gambit was going to end up being about. Either Putin had this in mind all along (unlikely) or he really does understand how to execute a center of the chessboard strategy.
With The West (in particular, Obozo) checkmated and revealed as the clowns they are, a Ruso-Sino power block looks like very much less of a threat (ne, Adolph Hitler) and more like a natural evolution of power (ne, the rise of US imperialism in the 1950s). A threat should be countered. But a change in fortunes is a business opportunity.
I'd be watching for huge flows of money in the darkest of the dark pools as oligarches start to shift some of their weight early behind this emerging platform. It might take many years for the new power block to solidify (might take decades) but this process has happened so many times in human history that anyone with even a passing understanding of events will know that now is the time to risk (ha!) a small part of the portfolio establishing an early foothold in the new game -- a hedge as it were -- to follow up with more if things proceed favorably.
All of that a very polite way of saying Obama and his cronies in the West are probably now fucked up the ass sideways.
Why do you assume the Queen and his cronies aren't investing in the east? The only people to take it up the ass are middle class Americans. You assume the Queen is a fool, when he's really a pretender. It's his job to destroy the middle class in America. It's his job. The fact that the American middle class is mostly white makes his job even more satisfying for the racist bastard.
You are too full of a restful hatred to see what is before your very eyes.
Awake, or be devoured in your sleep. Either way the universe cares not.
I hope we can settle this violently someday.
We will never meet. But you settle it on your end however you must, I'll settle it on mine in like manner, and whoever can tell their tale to another generation can claim he won, and will be right.
Someone's been reading too much Sun Tzu.
Hush. One cannot read too much Sun Tzu.
Sun Tsu can.
Confusious says, "A wise man will drink neither his own bath water nor his own urine, for what the body rejects will not help him."
Pussy
In our tribal past, it wasn't the job of the alphas to deprive the lower members of needed or wanted resources, rather it was their innate behavior.
Just as it is now, it was for their survival.
That is an interesting observation. If you know anything about natural selection -- and I sense you might -- then you know where that trajectory is likely headed.
However it is hard to project backwards from now to then and derive many useful insights. We were few, we were prey, and we were on the move. The role of the alphas might well have been completely different. And note, they might have well reproduced (we certainly still see them power-lunching at Wall Street and Broad) but their utility to the species (and the females who crave them) might have been to be torn apart by lions.
That thought should provide the rest of us a little welcome solace in hard times.
The Alpha trust fund brats wont survive.
Today's world, minus technological advances, is a continuation of past worlds. To learn of our past is to understand the present.
Using sex as an example, it is from evolution and is innate, but man has embellished it with the creation of lingerie and sexual paraphernalia, sexual techniques, fantasies, drugs, etc. All in pursuit of more pleasure - the hook in sexual reproduction.
The alpha-male social hierarchy, from nature, is embellished by applying a chain of command structure to it, enforcing physical control through the action of its police, mental controls through laws, lying, indoctrination, and purity by assiduously culling those who stray from it. All in pursuit of more control over ever larger aggregations of people. The hook is its promotion of survival in pre-technological societies - which is no longer applicable in our world.
If you understand the origin and action of government, you will see it's not needed and why there is no hope of controlling it.
2 years tops. Putin is doin' his tootin' now as the Spring comes so Germany and his other good clients do not get frozen out next Winter.
This year's transition has 6 months to go. By Winter all the new arrangements will already be set in pavement for the coming Winters.
6 months from now it will be all done.
40,000 troops is how serious this is today.
Maybe one more 'go round' next year to fix any blemishes in the new hegemony.
This is not such a good deal for Russia.
In this plan Russia trades Europe via Ukraine for China via Kazakhstan.
FIRSTLY
The old transit countries (Ukraine) didn't have gas of their own, and the new transit country (Kazakhstan) has just as much gas as Russia.
SECONDLY
Russia is trading a secure gas client - who really wants the gas - for an UNSECURE gas client - who would rather have oil than gas.
THIRDLY
To deliver the gas Russia must put pipeline over the worst terrain on planet earth (excepting the bottoms of the Atlantic and Pacific), where there are unhappy indiginous minorities who have felt oppressesd by Russia and China for CENTURIES.
In fact, in terms of physical security, the only WORSE places Russia could put pipeline is in Chechnya. And the only place China could put pipeline that is worse than Xinjiang is Tibet.
This looks more like a temporary alliance of convenience to provide a counter-pole to the perceived US hegemon. I say 'perceived' because while the US has certainly been running around the world since the 1950s and kicking people in the shins, we simply don't have the bipolar world that existed in the Cold war.
Back then everyone wanted and neeeded to have a superpower as a big brother. Any country without one had a habit of experiencing a violent communist revolution or CIA-induced 'regime change'. But that world is long gone. Today's world is a bunch of regional and rising powers who are each playing chess for their own benefit.
Europe doing as America tells it? Don't make me laugh! They do it when it suits them and not when not. Moreover, the WHOLE PURPOSE of the EU is to weld European countries into a single world power rather than continue as a herd of cats.
China? China does what Russia tells it? Or what the US tells it? No. China does what is best for China - and that includes intrigues just like all the other powers.
Finally, let me say this. Someone is consolidating Arab North Africa. That someone is also engaging in international intrigues. I have my hunches about who it is. You probably do too. What IS clear from Bengazi and Syria is that this new player is NOT THE US, NOT RUSSIA, and NOT China - though it probably has ties to all of the above.
A very well thought out contribution. You had me until the very last line. Very insightful comment about Kazakhstan.
Israel has us doing its bidding which of and by itself is amazing when you stop to consider the wealthiest Zionistas wouldn't hang their kippahs within 500 miles of the Middle East.
China has been very actively engaged in making inroads with its currency in Africa, but you said Arab North Africa. I'd have to guess either Saudi Arabia or Malaysia. Malaysia has the biggest stranglehold on the Islamic bonds market (sukuk). Even so, altogether North African bonds don't represent much in the global scheme of things.
Islamic bonds are fascinating financial instruments in that the Muslim nations don't believe in earning or paying interest on investments or money. Bonds are purchased for rents and net income only, which are allowed. They place a very high value on ethical conduct.
Arabs/Muslims place a very high value on ethical conduct?????
I can only assume you forgot the /sarc tag or else you never dealt with those people.
I'm American, secular and white. I've sat on a rug on the floor and eaten with Lebanese families who had welcomed me into their homes and were some of the kindest people in the world, and I have a friend I worked with on the Big Dig who's an Algerian-educated civil engineer. In her free time she tutored public high school students in Boston, and she said she had encountered tenth grade kids who couldn't multiply or divide by ten. She also said that after working with them, they got it. Their problems lay with the Boston school system. She said she had received a better secondary and (a free) college education in a third world country... her words. People hear the word Arab and in their ignorance they think all Arabs are the same. Don't let the MSM shackle your mind.
"North Dakota caps all flaring and builds a ten billion dollar natural gas processing facility in Bismark to compete with the one just finished in Ohio. Mid-American Energy Partners raises another ten billion to build 25,000 more windmills...this time in Minnesota alone...driving down the actual PRICE of electricity to a penny a kilowatt hour. General Electric heads to 40 bucks a share and Capstone Turbine doubles over the next six months approaching the magic number of 5 bucks a share."
Shall we talk about how the Great Danes have already converted their entire economy over to a hydrogen fuel based one using Dutch natural gas their feedstock?
Needless to say sales of Tesla's will continue to soar in Norway...and now Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Scotland, et al.
Heck maybe even Germany might jump on board here as "Berlin plans to build a 400 foot tall statue of Von Monstein to recognize his heroic defense of the German people's everywhere."
I just love The Onion. Crazy bunch over there.
+1. Gotta love Onion headlines like, "Collectible Plate Industry Calls For Tragic Death of Streisand"
SMAO (smiling my ass off)
Still at work. Can't have people here thinking I'm any more insane that is already obvious.
These two articles are very humorous. I think you'll appreciate how well-written they are as well. Enjoy, and please continue to comment here, because I glean much from your posts.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/97yearold-dies-unaware-of-being-violin-...
http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-regales-dinner-guests-with-impromp...
And now I am trapped, doomed to spend the rest of what might have otherwise been a productive afternoon, wasted instead browsing the archives of The Onion, you unmended Visigoth you.
Then my work here is done! Well, one more:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/strom-thurmond-calls-for-construction-o...
"Mid-American Energy Partners raises another ten billion to build 25,000 more windmills...this time in Minnesota alone...driving down the actual PRICE of electricity to a penny a kilowatt hour."
There is so much error embedded in this sentence that I don't even know where to start.
Two communist countries swapping spit.
Sounds like a good fit.
Demand payments in gold would be much more fun.
The US Fed and IMF have plenty of naked shorts on gold.
Kaboom!
how about in gold-backed yuan?
There is no conceivable way in the world that China could back their currency with Gold. They have three times as much printed money as the US......
And why would they; They have to print Yuan to stay alive. Backing the Yuan with Gold would restrict or even stop that....
Wow, maybe you can email this same non sensical shit to every email address in the universe and save yourself the bother of posting it to EVERY SINGLE ZH THREAD.
Gold is the kicker.
The Fonze would say,
"EXACTO-MUNDO!"
Don't Yuan me bro........
stateside
This is probably the most important development of the year, so it will be nowhere near the MSM. The dethroning of the dollar will be the ultimate legacy of Bernanke/Yellen. They will have killed the golden goose for a few years of short term bankers' profits
Their luxury condos in Haifa are waiting.
The dollar was only ever the petro-dollar. In the declining game of fossil energy it was doomed anyway. All the Fed leadership has done -- and all they ever will do -- is buy time.
What that tells me is, it's over. If there had been a viable Plan B we would have seen it by now. But we have not so there isn't one.
Everyone, think about that a little.
There is no Plan B.
It's like suddenly knowing that the tracks are down over the chasm but the train cannot stop in time to stop from going over. The situation is unavoidably fatal for the passengers. Rather than throwing on the brakes sending only terror through the cars the engineers elect first to let the passengers ride it out in seeming normality, leaving the terror to last only the few seconds it takes for everyone to die in the crash. Meanwhile not fighting with the brakes means the engineers can get themselves in position to jump off the train at the last instant, saving themselves.
Folks, that is exactly what is happening. You need to go back and review everything that has transpired in the global economy and financial system over the last six years with that scenario in mind, and suddenly everything -- all the seeming madness, the ass-hatery, the stupid decisions, the open graft and corruption -- will make horrible sense.
I don't know when the train goes into the chasm. But someone does, and they are making to jump to some kind of safety while the rest of us blissfully go over the edge into whatever will become of human history.
Being here at ZH is hopefully akin to head out the window watching for the engineers to jump.
(and that the doors aren't welded shut).
Well put.
That is exactly why I am here.
We have all of us become engineers of a sort, suspecting that there might be something wrong on the tracks ahead, and wanting to know what that means and if we need to jump.
It's a bad business. But, it is the business we are now in.
I get the picture you're trying to paint but the Dollar is still safer than any other currency paper out there. Nevermind how interconnected the trade has become, the Euro cannot survive when the Dollar crashes and neither can the Yuan let alone the Rub(b)le. There will be a global currency backed by a basket of commodities and services and if the introduction of the Euro was any example, the introduction will benefit some and hurt some more or less - in the long run.
How quaint, someone who can still dream.
It actually isn't a completely wrong point. The simple fact is, the dollar is the only currency in sufficient quantity to actually run the global economy. There just isn't enough yuan (or rubles or euros) to take over the volume of transactions.
It will take time for other currencies to create sufficient volume to replace the dollar. So this is a process that could take years.
My guess is, everything hinges on the giant dollar derivatives overhang. If that collapses then all bets are off. I think you would get jaw-dropping deflation overseas, and jaw-dropping inflation in the US. That's not good for anybody.
I sure hope Putin and the Chinese know what they are doing. My guess is, they probably don't, and are simply acting on this window of US weakness while the mincing fairy Soetero is still in power.
I liked it.
I imagine the USA will get foriegn aid from Mexico in return for the return of California and the southwest.
If Mexico waits a while longer they can probably walk in and take it.
Though uprooting LA and returning it to productive use would require a Herculean effort. Might be better just to let the coyotes have it.
like the train analogy. keep thinking about the billions of transactions that go on daily and how it adds up to the whole.
they keep creating debt and all and every transaction(s) adds to the whole. the change is suttle, but one day we wake and plan b is underway. plan a with a new reserve currency out of the rubble of destryed wealth that wasn't really anymore than accumulated dollars. the cost of oil from there to forth will tranform usa to 2nd world coutry with many chasms....
Cougar, that projected outcome depends entirely on our continued passivity.
What do we need to do now? Prepare to act in our own best interests. It means anticipating how we can and will refuse to participate, or refuse to be led. It means getting out onto the streets and conditioning the police state to think about who the victims are here and to identify who the real perpetrators are. We saw it happen in OWS. From the very ouset the MSM led the dialogue against the people and the police came out swinging, but in time the police woke up to the truth and the MSM had to back down to the emergence of the peoples' alternative media.
With what we've learned about NSA recently, the real reason the govt has been so secretive was to hide its unabashed intrusion into our way of life and their role in our loss of our constitutional rights.
We need to talk about this now while we still can. The minute they commit us to war they will censure the internet and all other available avenues of dissent while the Zionzi MSM fills the airwaves with its propaganda.
I happen to agree with all your points. I have had very similar conversations with others, including during the fevered days of the OWS movement.
I have since come to assume the counter to your opening point, which is that people will continue their passive response (yes, that's an oxymoron, but I don't know how else to put it).
The reasons are simple and reinforcing; fear of personal loses, no promise of personal gain, and any actual pain being distributed.
So long as it looks like everyone suffers and no one personally stands to gain, nothing will happen.
No single one of us decides to go there but we all veer toward Hell together by default.
Yes and its happening in the markets too as we speak, but there is a tipping point for everything.
I see it in my neighbors who fear the wrath of the voice on the other end for calling the police and wasting their time more than they fear the losses they suffer when their cars get broken into at night. They call me to commiserate instead because they don't know what else to do.
Fear is a funny thing though. Its amazing how easily things can be reversed when a couple of citizens are willing to take it upon themselves to become proactive and go out for a neighborly walk in broad daylight, and ask some simple questions of the people they encounter. Chat up a couple of kids coming home from school and word gets out damned fast that the hunters have suddenly become the hunted.
Couger w...
New tv episodes soon... 'Banker Hunters' to replace 'Nazi Hunters'
"
There is no Plan B.
It's like suddenly knowing that the tracks are down over the chasm but the train cannot stop in time to stop from going over. The situation is unavoidably fatal for the passengers. Rather than throwing on the brakes sending only terror through the cars the engineers elect first to let the passengers ride it out in seeming normality, leaving the terror to last only the few seconds it takes for everyone to die in the crash. Meanwhile not fighting with the brakes means the engineers can get themselves in position to jump off the train at the last instant, saving themselves."
Not bad, cougar. My only modification would be that the choice not to apply brakes is not benevolent or malevolent. The engineers don't apply them because they imagine they see tracks across the chasm labeled "TECHNOLOGY" and thus imagine the crash down that chasm will never happen.
So they don't tell the passengers and they don't jump out themselves, either, because of delusion.
Nice, and I agree a plausable argument. That is indeed the terrible power of delusion.
or just like the movie Inception (2010)...and Gold is the KICK that wakes everyone up from their delusional free-fall just before they hit bottom.
POG may wake everyone up from their slumber. Others will never wake up and not survive.
This is why I see nothing on CNN home page except the missing jet in the headlines.
I've never ever never seen so much coverage for a downed airplane.
But true to the adage of 'never let a good crisis go to waste' I'm sure they are 'back rooming' all sorts of other things they want kept in the dark.
One has to wonder how
our currency monopolizers
(not inconsistent with:)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-10/wsj-markets-are-thrall-central-...
will make out vs. Russia's
autocrats.
Of course, I'm clueless about
any intimations from anything
from this search.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+mafia+afghanistan
When all those dollars contries no longer need come home, inflation will be a bitch. An we already have record high beef prices.
Germany to the US Fed:
"Where is our giold? We want it now!"
US Fed:
We don't have it. We are pushing it down further wuith naked shorts so we can buy it back with our dollars."
It's like you don't have a brain at all.
It's good that Putin was on power for so many years and built up a good army and material to protect it's Oil and Gas. If he wouldn't have done that, US would invade like they did in Iraq.
That statement is wholly laughable, building up an army at all is a joke. Of course you don't need a very large army to defeat the euro-peons as they spend all their military monies on social welfare (HOPING) Obumbles will have their back if they see a bear.
Gazprom bonds in Yuan
#1 Good Fortune Trust As Good As Gold Equity
Get a fortune cookie with every bond. Open up and if you're lucky you will get paid back!
Sell gazprom bonds in Yuan to all the HY chasing Chinese shadow banking junkies. Awesome!
This has been coming a long time. Ever since Obama told the world to not buy Iran oil or else and was told to get fucked we are buying the oil! Fucking with the SWIFT system brought this on and now you and I will pay thru the nose for stupid foreign policy. Hell even our allies told us to get screwed.
Many have been demonized for telling the world that the Far East would start trading in Yuan even after England opened a Yuan swap facility! I will just sit back and watch the fireworks and get the real news here and some other sites! Good job Zerohedge you will not see this on the media in the USA at all most likely as they continue to fawn over this president that is basically bankrupting the country to serve his social justice on all! More about the Malayasian airline please!
The Queen's job is to weaken America for a non-violent capitulation of our sovereignty. The Queen is a puppet of the CFR. The CFR controls the government. The CFR is a communist organization.
I remember after 'the Arab Spring' started, CFR ran the headline on their mag, 'Foreign Policy' (where they 'hide their plans in plain sight')
"What Just Happened &
Why No One Saw It Coming"
Which tells you one thing, not only did they see it coming, they planned it. Hence why they 'didn't see it coming'.
Yeh, if you read their magazine, they tell you what is going to happen.
Hitlery even admitted she got her orders from them.
I belive the world has gone mad.
What's the status of that pipeline leaving Syria (that was supposed to plug into the same network of pipe)?
What's the status of that pipeline leaving Syria (that was supposed to plug into the same network of pipe)? Sorry for the double post, my browser choked.
This calls for a new line in the sand from Lew, Lurch or Old Yeller.
Let me see if I understand this. China and Russia have been screwing up their economies and financial markets for 200 years and all of a sudden they understand how to win this game? With both their economy's imploding? Really?
You're witnessing the power of the Bill of Rights. The Muslims don't hate us for our freedom (they are irrelevant), the Communists hate us for our freedom. They want to destroy, and rebuild America in their image. Anyone who has children, or grandchildren, should be concerned how they are going to fit into the global communist dictatorship on the horizon.
"You're witnessing the power of the Bill of Rights. The Muslims don't hate us for our freedom (they are irrelevant), the Communists hate us for our freedom. They want to destroy, and rebuild America in their image. Anyone who has children, or grandchildren, should be concerned how they are going to fit into the global communist dictatorship on the horizon, Comrades!!
Muslims don't hate us for our freedom; they hate us because the Koran teaches them to hate all non-Muslims.
Their mindless hate makes them a very useful tool of the global communist elite.
One man's communism is another man's neofeudalism. IMO.
Communists hate you more than the Muslims. In fact, I'm beginning to hate you too. :)
It is generally difficult for a person born of a 300-year-old culture to comprehend the momentary flux of a 3000-year-old culture.
Except that the current (command control) culture has nothing but disdain for anything before Mao.
Why is that an exception to what I have said? I don't understand your response.
Okay, I am missing something here. Symbolic gestures, discussions, school-yard geopolitics is one thing, let's talk about the logistics here.
Putin is going to be selling gas to China. Okay, I get that. How? We're talking about erecting pipeline networks that would go Eastwards through the Ural Mountains, the 6000+ western Siberian plain which has the largest swamps and marshes in the world (engineering obstacles)? Then China would also need to connect that pipeline through it's north western territory which is primarily a desert, full of quite an angry minority population.
An alternative would be for the pipeline to flow through Kazakstan, through an already existing artery, but it would require a joint effort by both governments to erect such a pipeline that can carry the kind of capacity of gas needed to offset the loss of sales to Europe. That direct pipeline to the chinese border is still 3300 miles. And involves another third party country to be involved int his exchange.
From a practical stance, it would require a lot of resources for Russia to build a pipeline that can carry that much gas so far East to China. Not just resources, but time, and time is something that they don't have when their main [clean] export is gas, and you're going to cut off your main customer.
So I am wondering, if such a pipeline already exists, if so, can it carry that kind of capacity of gas, if so, what are the costs of maintaining it (vast wilderness with hardly a soul for hundreds of miles, if something goes wrong, you're fucked).
Russia has gas fields all over the country. They pipe would more likely go north to south into northern china (where it's coldest and hence most needed). It won't be easy, but nowhere near as difficult as piping it from near moscow.
I understand that, but how much are those gas-fields producing? You're talking about needing a massive output of gas, and then a pipe leading towards China, from the North (extremely hostile environment) the south (less extremely hostile environment). Let's say they start construction today, it would take several years for them to even have the thing up-and running.
Here is a great image from Gazprom itself on it's current pipleines: http://www.gazprom.com/f/posts/02/843616/chayandinskoye-map-2-en.jpg
As of right now it has only one major pipeline going into China, it's construction plans are building a few more, but they are in planning phases and won't be finished until 2018.
Good question overall. I looked around. Appears the plans are to coinduit from the Malositinskoye Gas complex just to the northeast of China.
Hence the "symbolic" nature of the gesture. I symbolically support the revolution in Ukraine here on ZH but that's all I can really offer.
Many of your questions are answered in the Wiki link regarding the Altai gas pipeline... 2,800km, 56 inch diameter, etc.
Agreement was reached on tech/engineering in 2006. Now they are haggling over price of gas... supposedly Putin is going to China in April to sign on the line.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altai_gas_pipeline
Interesting read, the Altai Pipeline would deliver, (at max ) more to China than to Europe, but at 20% higher delivery cost because of distance. The Altai Pipeline would send 30 Billion Cubic meters of natural gas to China when it's built. That's roughly 1 trillion 500 million cubic feet of gas annually. Or roughly 2 billion cubic feet a day.
Europe imports 38.7% of all it's gas energy from Russia. In 2013, the 28 countries of the European Union consumed about 44.7 billion cubic feet per day. In 2013, Europe imported about 4.6 billion cubic feet per day of liquefied natural gas. Of that 1.78 billion cubic feet per day from Russia.
Realistic projections say that altai pipeline will be able to start delivering that gas by 2018-2020.
However:
this is gas not oil. Oil is what China wants from Russia. Gas is the secondary.
Chinese do not need Altai for the WEP system to work because they can obtain Central Asian gas. They do need East Siberian gas — which currently lacks pipeline infrastructure — because regional gas capacity in the three north-eastern provinces of China is small and, without access to East Siberia or Sakhalin, the alternative is large-scale LNG imports.
Yes,
Moreover, the problem with Ukraine has been that they have the pipes, and Russia has the gas. There is always the incentive for Ukraine to offer the pipes to other Gas providers - hence the 2008 Gas Crisis, Nabucco pipeline, South Stream, etc.
So, essentially, Russia is trading Ukraine and Europe for Kasakhstan and China. Except Kazakhstan has its own gas (Ukraine doesn't) and therefore more incentive than Ukraine to sabotage the deal. And China wants oil more than GAS... So this looks like a much worse deal for Russia than the one they already have.
But it gets worse.
How is it that Russia - transporting the GAS a great distance will be able to compete on price with Kazakhstan - who is transporting it a shorter distance? And finally - can you think of a more dangerous, less secure environment for a pipeline to be than Novisibirsk, Kazakhstan, and XinJiang???
All of those places have significant populations of unhappy ethnic minorities who aren't happy with the Russian and Chinese governments respectively.
Trading Ukraine for Kazakstan makes sense. Kazakstan has more resources, and is more stable, than Ukraine. But, unlike Ukraine, Kazakstan isn't dependent on Russia, and it has extremely close ties to the Western mineral and oil companies.
The plans to sell gas to China have been in production since 2006, you won't convince me to believe that all of a sudden NOW it started happening. This was just the opportune moment to stick it into the US's eye.
The fact is man, and I watch tons of Russian tv with my grandparents, most Russians would sell their left testicle to come to the US, but they can't, but what they can't have they hate. And the amount of anti-American propoganda that is still prevalent in Russia is phenomenal.
Anecdotal evidence: When that meteor flew by a while back in Russia, there was a genuine concern and belief amongst a huge number of people that it was a US attack on Russia. That is the level of paranoia their government feeds them. Why? It's easier to get away milking your populace to death by convincing them that all their problems are due to the Dragon Over the Hill.
You quoted cubic meters of LNG above in the context of Euro gas consumption.
FYI LNG has a 600+ muliplier on it when it is warmed up to become gas. 1 cubic meter of LNG is 600+ cubic meters of nat gas.
I did not know that!
Remember what happened to Iraq when Saddam threatened to accept only Euros for oil trade.
Off topic, I may read ZH too much. I'm beginning to recognize the individual writing styles of the different Tylers. This Tyler likes to use the phrase 'de novo'...
"Remember what happened to Iraq when Saddam threatened to accept only Euros for oil trade."
Putin and Russia is no pushover. You better believe Russia and China has every counter-measure against western weapon systems.
Multiple warhead missiles.
Video shows Russian ICBM warheads hit targets on test range (2013)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=616_1388103923
Russia and China have no defense against financial weapons. Their economies have merged with the First World. Remember when their economies were thought of as the Second World economies? Russia and China have no meaningful prospect exploiting Third World economies. It's now clear this horse is going to be broken. The lasso is around the neck. It's only a matter of time and expression of compassion. Who will be the new Second World Whisperer?
What we are seeing here is fluff... PR fluff. It's Springtime and hormones are raging... I get it. Please don't hold your breath waiting for the US dollar to stop being the world's reserve currency. It's clear we have gone too far down that path to stop. Remember when everyone thought the Euro was going to replace the dollar as the world's reserve currency?
Russia and China are both members of the SCO... Something never discussed in western msm.
All the money we've spent on defense has allowed us to negate the IED and those with RPG, while Russia and China modernised against a real war. Y'know, a war with aircraft, ships, armor.
If selling your old rusting USSR weapons to the rest of the world is 'Modernizing' Russia has it beat hands down.
OMG, I hear some kind of horrible noise coming from the drain in the bathroom! It's like.....a huge Sucking Noise!
I had better check my PMs.
I don't view this as a big deal. It really is a symbolic gesture. The total bond market denominated in USD is in the tens of trillions of USD. A few hundred million backed by russian energy assets won't be noticed. When third world countires sell international bonds denominated in yuan that are fully subscribed, then it's time to worry.
I feel like I'm reading James Rickards "Currency Wars" in real life.
Better than "Mad Max," or "Farenheit 451" I reckon.
I probably wouldn't put "Mad Max" in the same league as "F451"
"F451" is hard to beat as a rule whatever else you put against it.
remember...for the most part this is all by design. there is no doubt that those in control of America have always meant to collapse us at some point.
The timelines and triggers have always been fluid and changing depending on other issues that come up, and then the globalists call an audible and change the play.
But make no mistake, whatever ultimately takes America down it will have been planned to a great extent and the globalists will always survive and thrive.
Obama and the rest of the treasonous usurpers are part of it. most in govern,ent over the last many decades have all played a roll in it in some way shape or form.
They mean to take over America, destroy our rights and freedom, and kill as many of us as possible...so don't doubt for a second that all this other shit going on isn't being done to help them achieve their goals.
Obama is assisting Russia and China and his protests are weak because they are just theater to keep the sheeple from figuing all this out.
And obviously they want us under total authoritarian dictatorship and dependent totally on government, so why would they try to stop our dollar collapse and another country or partnership of countries from taking over economically?
Thay want America under UN control and international law, so they have to totally bust us and this is how its going to go down eventually as other countries dump the dollar and we collapse into the tyranny they have always planned for us.
So don't think obama and the rest are making any mistakes with Russia or China. its all by design and we better get prepared for a fight.
We've had credible/suttel statements that would be inline with the Dollars demise. Kyle Bass with his high Oboinko official stating we are going to kill the dollar. The other and some might doubt but none the less a DHS insider commenting about the preparations for such a outcome.
Bullish!!! BTF"S"BIINCY *
*'But the Fucking "Symbolic" Bond Issue in Chinese Yuan'
Wouldn't it be better to get payment in gold but not at the present US price?
They're only doing what the American public and U.S. military should have done already: declare war on the FED, BIS, IMF, and open fire!
"How about you, Fauna? Yuana?
Something BIG is gonna blow up by the end of the weekend. No way this is going to go unanswered by the US.
Hillary has already started to pussy riot! But she's tryin' to keep good ol' Silver Bill out of it!
Obama will go golfing. Oh the humanity!
Obama might have an accident. What point was there to his presidency and his banker support other than this being a setup for a fall guy and he being that guy? There's no legacy to preserve and protect. JFK was different though. He went against the bankers as well as MIC and paid with his life. Obama can't pull the trigger and he's failing. The bankers are done with him and they will want to create the American equivalent to a Putin who is oligarch through and through.
Hillary, 2016?
too much of a loose cannon
"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!?!"
JEB
I'd rather vote "Putin" than have another Bush fuck us over.
Like the guy quoting Hillary said "What difference does it make?"
there are too many oligarchs now.
Just Say No.
Russia's cheap energy + China's machines = What kind of American future?
I am still waiting for China to start settling international trade in yuan and gold.
Just wait until Walmart has to exchange dollars to distribute plastic bullshit and cotton rags to Obama's SNAP crowds.
These fuckers really will need a global war to stay in power.
Where do you get that Russia's energy is cheap? Compare to what else? China's machines are aching and breaking unless they're made and maintained by foreign companies. Everything China builds and maintains eventually goes to shit.
Buy the extended warranties!
Who has the time to file all those and keep track? Then to go after the retailer and company that sold the shit in the first place? Better to buy the cheapest crap from China and throw it out after a year then buy it again. Unless there's a product build in North America or Europe, it's not worth spending the extra money just to get the same Chinese shit just with a brand name.
yeah, like the great wall.
We used to say the same thing about things made in Japan.
These things change. It is as simple as that.
With regards to China it won't change. Sorry, it's all crap.
Global war has a nasty habit of finally ending with different people in power.
But to your point, yes, they will have to fight it out.
When your only tool is war everything looks like battle.
After the equipment, maintenance and physical security cossts to transport it across SIBERIA it won't be cheap anymore.
20% higher price in gas to China than it would be to the Europeans. 540 dollars for a thousand cubic feet of natural gas to China vs 440 dollars to Europe. China doesn't need West Siberian gas that Russia is selling it. It needs oil. It's gas imports are only for it's NE provinces, and they need Sakalin and East Siberian gas.
I just wait until walmart has to exchange dollars to distribute plastic bullshit; but then doesn't-which will be more probable.
The better question for China:
How do you propose maintaining selling cheap shit to the rest of the world when no one's buying?
How are you going to maintain that critical 7.5% annual growth rate that your citizentry is demanding?
Russia and China making any kind of a deal is more out of mutual desire to survive in what's becoming an increasingly evident breakdown of both nations.
The positive: At least Russia and China both know they are headed towards Oblivion. We are still sniffing our own farts.
This is how ZIRP ends.
And QE won't be all that far behind...
I applaud Russia moving away from Dollars.
But this doesn't do it.
Under this deal each side, China and Russia, is printing money (something not real) to pay for things that ARE real - Gas on one side and Chinese products on the other.
The problem is that they don't understand what a Numeraire is.
The rest of the commodities markets settle in Dollars. You don't settle commodities in paper. Paper is just a proxy for the other real things, commodities, that you settle in. Therefore settleing this trade in Rubles and Yuan raises the questions:
What is a Ruble?
What is a Yuan?
Because the Dollar is used everywhere else, the answer to both those questions is this: Yuan and Ruble are some quantity of Dollars.
So.... while this is symbolically a good move, in reality it doesn't do much in terms of really reducing the demand for Dollars in international settlement. Instead it is a bilateral trade agreement that simply moves the settlement in Dollars one step further away from the original transaction.
Shortly, you could eliminate MOST of the settlement of Services and Products, but if still settling commodities in Dollars - then the Dollar remains reserve currency and numeraire.
Why? It is the nature of commodities to be the things that compose other things. The money you use for commodities, then, is the denominator for any other currency you might choose in the same way that the commodities themselves are what compose products. So when all the stuff you might want to buy is composed of stuff almost exclusively denominated in Dollars, then the stuff you are buying is itself denominated in Dollars, and thus the money you use for your purchases remains denominated in Dollars.
Going to bilateral trade will make Russia less susceptible to Banksters' games (except for Russian and Chinese banksters games), and it lessens the strength of the Dollar to the degree that Gas is a valuable commodity. But this is mostly symbolic.
The problem with the Dollar is that it is a fiat currency that represents some totally arbitrary value under a human's control. The problem with settling in other fiat currencies is the same as settling in Dollars, except the banks of the world are already set up for Dollars and need very good reasons why they should incur transition costs.
If they really want to get away from the Dollar, there is only one option - GOLD.
I suspect that Russia would find a lot of support in the Middle East and at least, iin Germany, if it went to Gold for international Settlement.
Actually,
I should add that this is a much better for China than for Russia.
In this deal China buys commodities (priced in Dollars) to build products - which are therefore also denominated in Dollars (ergo denominated in nothing in particular) then prints money from nothing to pay for REAL GAS.
And in this deal Russia uses Rubles which it prints from nothing, and trades them for Chinese stuff that is denominated in Dollars. Russia also sells REAL GAS in return for Chinese Yuan, which are based on dollars or on Chinese products composed of product denominated in Dollars.
The reason why it is better for China than for Russia is that China's whole chain of production starts with the US Fed printing Dollars - something not real - and then people trading those various factors of production for something REAL - GAS. Shortly, the only REAL product that China is expending in return for that GAS is LABOR, everything else is sitting on a chain of debt.
Russia, on the other hand, is expending a real, expendable, and non-replaceable commodity - energy.
And, by the way, this course of action holds serious political tail risks to Russia, in that Russia needs the Central Asian republics in order to deliver. But the central Asian republics - who are Russia's competitors in the GAS market - do not need Russia to deliver to China. So, once Russia has burned its bridges with Europe it will be in a position where Russia needs to sell GAS to China more than China needs to buy Gas from Russia (because China will be able to buy it cheaper and easier from Central Asian Republics) . Simple supply and demand.
But they've already got a pipline and a contract and way to exchange yuan and roubles. That kind of makes your argument moot.
Even on Mars? Is the dollar so pervasive that eveything is priced in dollars. We better call them and tell them that the gas deal is off.
With one second left and the score 0 to 0, Putin has the ball, he forcefully KICKS - GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! Russia wins!Russia wins!Russia wins!Russia wins!Russia wins!Russia wins!Russia wins!Russia wins!......
Thinking of trading in some $ for Swiss francs to add to my PM holdings. $ is in for it sooner than I thought.
Dollar has been "in for it" several days now...
Why not just buy the currency the Franc is pegged to, the Euro?
The Franc is not your father's Franc
I am stashing Yuan in my hidey hole.
RMB to be global reserve currency by 2030:
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1203&MainCatID=...
This can all be solved if Barry will draw a red line in the sand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGHorPRWx8I
might be a good time, to go hike
some of the ancient sections
of the great wall...
This is interesting at
the same time Russia's
planning to sell gas to
China, but I don't think
pipelines are made from
aluminum.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=ach&inst...
Just a blip on the infinitely lower left to upper right chart--not!
I expect that Europe has already had a, "come to Jesus"" meeting with Putin and the transition from dollar hegemony is a matter of semantics.
You can't put laborers and prostitutes in charge of the world's monetary system by decree and not expect there to be blowback.
So does this mean the 17T debt disappears and my 1m mortgage can be paid off in toilet paper?
Pollyanna!
i wonder what victoria "ziocon bitch" nuland has to say now.
I was just listening to her in a senate committee.
They seem to be wanting...Military Aid!
How about some Band-Aid, or Rite-Aid, or Kool-Aid...all good profit centers. The military is only developing Depends Plans for when it hits the fan...and maybe some rolls of Gun Caps and some bricks of firecracker. Oh and some troop inspections (or extended vacations).
ZIMBennyBucks = the future of the dollar....