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Putin Warns Europe "No Alternative... Will Cut Gas Supplies"

Tyler Durden's picture


European partners have left Russia with "no alternative" but to halt supplies of gas to Ukraine and Europe, according to a letter from Russian president Putin to European leaders.


The remarks, as Reuters reports, were the strongest sign yet that Russia could curtail supplies of gas to (and through) Ukraine affecting supplies of gas to Europe (as they fear Ukraine will siphon off Russian gas meant for Europe). Russia is already reducing its delivery through Ukraine but it stil represents 39% of Europe's demand. Gazprom has also been forced to move to pre-payment terms on any future deliveries (there's your IMF bailout).

Via Reuters,

President Vladimir Putin has told European leaders a dispute over Ukraine's gas debt to Russia could affect supplies of Russian gas to Europe and proposed urgent discussions on the matter, his spokesman said on Thursday.


The remarks were the strongest sign yet that Russia could curtail supplies of gas to Ukraine, which could increase tension between Moscow and Kiev and aggravate the worst crisis in East-West ties since the Cold War.


"The situation is urgent," Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said after Putin sent a letter expressing deep concern about Ukraine's $2.2 billion gas debt and warning of a possible impact on the transit of Russian gas to the European Union.


In the letter, Putin proposed "mechanisms of dialogue for urgent discussions of the situation that has developed," Peskov said. He did not give any details about the proposal or say which leaders were addressed.

Putin also added that Ukraine is in trouble...


Reuters further adds that:


We are sure any new sanctions that Obama and his motley crew are coming up with have all of this in mind...

In sum, Russia is saying that Ukraine must build its own gas reserves to guarantee that there is enough for Europe, and Ukraine is saying no. Russia is thus implying that European gas supplies are at risk because Ukraine will take the gas supposedly traveling to Europe.

The math, as performed by Gazprom, via Bloomberg:

Ukraine needs ~18bcm of natgas in underground storage facilities for future winter consumption, to ensure uninterrupted transit of Russian fuel to Europe, Gazprom Deputy CEO Vitaliy Markelov says at govt meeting outside Moscow. Ukraine has 6.5bcm in storage now, ~0.65bcm are in Crimeanunderground storage facilities. Markelov adds that  11.5bcm needed before winter to cost $4b-$5b, if history is any example gas in storage before last winter was 19bcm, and currently has 7.2bcm in underground storage, according to Naftogaz Ukrainy.

So to paraphrase: Gazprom is saying it demands that Ukraine build up its gas holdings to assured it won't syphon off gas with a European destination, gas which will cost Ukraine up to $5 billion, money which Russia is now demand be paid up front. Or else Europe gets it.

* * *

Full Putin letter is below via Itar-Tass (highlights ours):

Ukraine’s economy in the past several months has been plummeting. Its industrial and construction sectors have also been declining sharply. Its budget deficit is mounting. The condition of its currency system is becoming more and more deplorable. The negative trade balance is accompanied by the flight of capital from the country. Ukraine’s economy is steadfastly heading towards a default, a halt in production and skyrocketing unemployment.

Russia and the EU member states are Ukraine’s major trading partners. Proceeding from this, at the Russia-EU Summit at the end of January, we came to an agreement with our European partners to hold consultations on the subject of developing Ukraine’s economy, bearing in mind the interests of Ukraine and our countries while forming integration alliances with Ukraine’s participation. However, all attempts on Russia’s part to begin real consultations failed to produce any results.

Instead of consultations, we hear appeals to lower contractual prices on Russian natural gas – prices which are allegedly of a “political” nature. One gets the impression that the European partners want to unilaterally blame Russia for the consequences of Ukraine’s economic crisis.

Right from day one of Ukraine’s existence as an independent state, Russia has supported the stability of the Ukrainian economy by supplying it with natural gas at cut-rate prices. In January 2009, with the participation of the then-premier Yulia Tymoshenko, a purchase-and-sale contract on supplying natural gas for the period of 2009-2019 was signed. The contract regulated questions concerning the delivery of and payment for the product, and it also provided guarantees for its uninterrupted transit through the territory of Ukraine. What is more, Russia has been fulfilling the contract according to the letter and spirit of the document. Incidentally, Ukrainian Minister of Fuel and Energy at that time was Yuriy Prodan, who today holds a similar post in Kiev’s government.

The total volume of natural gas delivered to Ukraine, as stipulated in the contract during the period of 2009-2014 (first quarter), stands at 147.2 billion cubic meters. Here, I would like to emphasize that the price formula that had been set down in the contract had NOT been altered since that moment. And Ukraine, right up till August 2013, made regular payments for the natural gas in accordance with that formula.

However, the fact that after signing that contract, Russia granted Ukraine a whole string of unprecedented privileges and discounts on the price of natural gas, is quite another matter. This applies to the discount stemming from the 2010 Kharkiv Agreement, which was provided as advance payment for the future lease payments for the presence of the (Russian) Black Sea Fleet after 2017. This also refers to discounts on the prices for natural gas purchased by Ukraine’s chemical companies. This also concerns the discount granted in December 2013 for the duration of three months due to the critical state of Ukraine’s economy. Beginning with 2009, the total sum of these discounts stands at 17 billion US dollars. To this, we should add another 18.4 billion US dollars incurred by the Ukrainian side as a minimal take-or-pay fine.

In this manner, during the past four years, Russia has been subsidizing Ukraine’s economy by offering slashed natural gas prices worth 35.4 billion US dollars. In addition, in December 2013, Russia granted Ukraine a loan of 3 billion US dollars. These very significant sums were directed towards maintaining the stability and creditability of the Ukrainian economy and preservation of jobs. No other country provided such support except Russia.

What about the European partners? Instead of offering Ukraine real support, there is talk about a declaration of intent. There are only promises that are not backed by any real actions. The European Union is using Ukraine’s economy as a source of raw foodstuffs, metal and mineral resources, and at the same time, as a market for selling its highly-processed ready-made commodities (machine engineering and chemicals), thereby creating a deficit in Ukraine’s trade balance amounting to more than 10 billion US dollars. This comes to almost two-thirds of Ukraine’s overall deficit for 2013.

To a large extent, the crisis in Ukraine’s economy has been precipitated by the unbalanced trade with the EU member states, and this, in turn has had a sharply negative impact on Ukraine’s fulfillment of its contractual obligations to pay for deliveries of natural gas supplied by Russia. Gazprom neither has intentions except for those stipulated in the 2009 contract nor plans to set any additional conditions. This also concerns the contractual price for natural gas, which is calculated in strict accordance with the agreed formula. However, Russia cannot and should not unilaterally bear the burden of supporting Ukraine’s economy by way of providing discounts and forgiving debts, and in fact, using these subsidies to cover Ukraine’s deficit in its trade with the EU member states.

The debt of NAK Naftogaz Ukraine for delivered gas has been growing monthly this year. In November-December 2013 this debt stood at 1.451,5 billion US dollars; in February 2014 it increased by a further 260.3 million and in March by another 526.1 million US dollars. Here I would like to draw your attention to the fact that in March there was still a discount price applied, i.e., 268.5 US dollars per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. And even at that price, Ukraine did not pay a single dollar.

In such conditions, in accordance with Articles 5.15, 5.8 and 5.3 of the contract, Gazprom is compelled to switch over to advance payment for gas delivery, and in the event of further violation of the conditions of payment, will completely or partially cease gas deliveries. In other words, only the volume of natural gas will be delivered to Ukraine as was paid for one month in advance of delivery.

Undoubtedly, this is an extreme measure. We fully realize that this increases the risk of siphoning off natural gas passing through Ukraine’s territory and heading to European consumers. We also realize that this may make it difficult for Ukraine to accumulate sufficient gas reserves for use in the autumn and winter period. In order to guarantee uninterrupted transit, it will be necessary, in the nearest future, to supply 11.5 billion cubic meters of gas that will be pumped into Ukraine’s underground storage facilities, and this will require a payment of about 5 billion US dollars.

However, the fact that our European partners have unilaterally withdrawn from the concerted efforts to resolve the Ukrainian crisis, and even from holding consultations with the Russian side, leaves Russia no alternative.

There can be only one way out of the situation that has developed. We believe it is vital to hold, without delay, consultations at the level of ministers of economics, finances and energy in order to work out concerted actions to stabilize Ukraine’s economy and to ensure delivery and transit of Russian natural gas in accordance with the terms and conditions set down in the contract. We must lose no time in beginning to coordinate concrete steps. It is towards this end that we appeal to our European partners.

It goes without saying that Russia is prepared to participate in the effort to stabilize and restore Ukraine’s economy. However, not in a unilateral way, but on equal conditions with our European partners. It is also essential to take into account the actual investments, contributions and expenditures that Russia has shouldered by itself alone for such a long time in supporting Ukraine. As we see it, only such an approach would be fair and balanced, and only such an approach can lead to success.


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Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:20 | 4642984 H. Perowne
H. Perowne's picture

Alea iacta est?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:25 | 4643005 pods
pods's picture

He should finish off all his statements with "Check."


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:33 | 4643040 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

The Ukrainians are guaranteed to siphon off gas and then blame the Russians.  They did it in 2006 and 2009.  This is why Putin needs Southstream to be completed, to reduce dependence on the Kiev Kriminals for gas transit.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:53 | 4643111 Element
Element's picture

Mostly Putin just needs the Europeans to wake up to themselves and see where this is going, and tell Washington to piss off from EU foreign policy affairs, then the EU itself will encourage Ukraine to be nice to Russia and behave itself, and pay its gas bill, ... or else both EU and the bear will beat them up.

Unfortunately the EU will be very slow waking-up to itself, as to where its interests really lay, over the next 25 years.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:05 | 4643221 eurogold
eurogold's picture

+1000 Element !

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:31 | 4643398 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Sounds pretty good, until you realize Ukraine HAS NO FUCKING MONEY.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:53 | 4644863 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Alas, time for Ukraine to go back to being a Russian satellite.  No soup for you!!!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:56 | 4644884 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

They can always pay with wheat and cheap labor. Or ask the Fed to give them their gold back, and see how 'true' their friendship is with the US.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:48 | 4643862 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Europe is laying low, knowing that if it hits the fan, the US will pay for it all.  Russia wants that too, as the US bailout to Ukraine and therefore Euro will go straight to Russia...

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:39 | 4644808 zaphod
zaphod's picture

What the EU doesn't realize is the ones who will actually pay for this are themselves because the US will simply print whatever this costs, which shifts the real costs to debt holders and countries trapped in the petrodollar system. EU countries own a lot of US debt and are forced to by oil with dollars, this means that if the US prints to pay for something, its really the EU who pays.

The key is to not have dollar exposure, if you aren't invested in dollars then the US printing to pay for nonsense only indirectly effects you.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 17:03 | 4644902 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hence: "Gas/Oil for Gold"

ps. "Seller may also accept part payment in machines and machine tools & parts."

pps. Print all the greenback confetti you want. We're not taking any.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:54 | 4644874 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The only thing the US has is printing presses. Vlad is going to stop taking US paper money in the near future because he knows it's worthless. 

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 13:20 | 4643993 GCT
GCT's picture

Spot on Element!  I think the EU will pay for it myself otherwise their grand plan of the Ukraine joining the EMU is done kaput!  He who controls the spice controls the universe.  Oh I meant natural gas!

Notice how the EU is keeping its mouth shut for now and during the now G7 conference.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:41 | 4643078 BandGap
BandGap's picture

His open honesty is quite refreshing, wouldn't you agree? Concise, and to the point as to what is required. He's not back-stabbing, he's pushing the knife in while looking you in the eye.

Sure wish the current US administration was as clear in their intentions.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:53 | 4643145 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Paul Craig Roberts most recent interview on the overall situation including gold & Russia:


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:15 | 4643287 TruthTalker
TruthTalker's picture

Jim Willies new interview

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:53 | 4643146 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

The current administration's feeble skills are no match for the true power of the dark side.  Now they will pay the price for their lack of vision.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:06 | 4643230 db51
db51's picture

The Current Administration IS the Dark Side.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:49 | 4644850 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

They are just pawns of a darker hand. This country is being run by outsiders now. It should be plain as fucking day by now.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 02:55 | 4646523 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Obama is only half dark.   Ditto Jarret.    So who would they be referring to, if found to be gesturing at some group and saying in Yiddish, "they darker than us!" a la Mel Brooks?   Who?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 17:09 | 4644926 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Ah, that would explain why Bush Sr. is getting into the election funds (war chest) for the GOOD Ole Party, even though he's close to 'Factory Recall'. /s

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:11 | 4643655 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture


I think WE will pay the price for the lack of vision in DC and the Fed.

WE have been thrown under the bus in an attempt to save a few large banks.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:54 | 4643152 pods
pods's picture

Can't understand why people expect Russia to be a charity. I mean, just because the west doesn't pay off shit they owe to others in the west, it doesn't have to be that Russia behaves this way.

And this is not some conjured loan of banker funny money. This is payment for a commodity.

Big difference.

Wonder if Vlad is a fan of Goodfellas?

Had a bad week?  Fuck you, pay me!


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:03 | 4643210 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

demand for natural gas is deminimus in Ukraine...especially if you're gonna push all the women and children into Kiev...or further East.

Those gas pipelines are of enormous value...anything happens to those things and all of Europe has an instant energy crisis.

That would make the Netherlands the richest country in Europe over night actually.
Great news for Tesla.
Great news for fuel cell companies too.

Bad news for peace of course. In order to respond to the unprovoked attack all other Eastern States with "mushy borders" will have to secure those borders and start forward deploying.

I think Russia is terrified of going hungry and needs that massive food production of Ukraine. Of course so does the rest of Europe.

I do agree "still no comment from the White House."

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:48 | 4643514 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

You display a remarkable ability to get nearly everything wrong.


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:02 | 4643603 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Down vote if you must..., but I didn't see too many mistakes there.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 17:33 | 4644997 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

He doesn't just have an opinion problem.  He has facts wrong over and over and over again -- like so:


-- Those gas pipelines are of enormous value...anything happens to those things and all of Europe has an instant energy crisis. --


No, it doesn't.  The UK doesn't use any Russian gas.  Germany uses Russain gas from the Nordstream pipeline that doesn't even pass through Ukraine.  Norway has its own.  The Dutch and Danes have their own.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:31 | 4644774 FilthyHabits
FilthyHabits's picture



"Next time you think before you start a revolution in a country I control; Now - No lube for you..."

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:29 | 4643023 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

But the spice must flow...

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:29 | 4643024 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Do you hear that sound, Mr. Anderson ? It's the sound of inevitability.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 17:13 | 4644941 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You mean "Mr. Yats".

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:22 | 4642985 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

He added, dense woods burn for a longer time than pine.


See furniture.  GO VLAD!


Meanwhile, Obama called costco to see if they could send a bulk shipment of small propane grill cannisters.  Leadership at work.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:24 | 4642999 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

YOU, definitely did not sing tune that Milli!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:30 | 4643025 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

Girl, you know it's true.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:44 | 4643083 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

It's all or nothing now. Just keep on running. Maybe you can blame it on the rain.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:47 | 4643504 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You didn't sing that !!!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:26 | 4643008 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

..."and No more Beluga Caviar for You either." Now You will see Euro elite jump and pay up.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:46 | 4643102 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Yellen to funnel funny money to ECB to funnel Euro's to Ukraine banks to funnel them to Russia and back to banks. 

Europe warm, Ukraine warm, future US taxpayers freeze.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:59 | 4643178 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The tables have turned. First time I was in Russia was in the waning days of the USSR. You could buy tins of Russian buluga caviar from waiters and other folks for $ 5 US (then considered primo hard currency).  In the airport stores they were going for 10x that.

When this dollar fiat fraud finally shakes out, look out for the impact on prices in the US for imported goods.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:03 | 4643610 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I was there then too! You are 100% correct!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:44 | 4643088 furgheddubouddit
furgheddubouddit's picture

Putin was just trying to be nice.

Europe mistook his kindness for weakness and decided to create a mess in Ukraine.

This will probably go down in the history books as one of the biggest geopolitical misjudgements EVER.

They're about to find out what an angry Russia is capable of.


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 17:27 | 4644976 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The ULTIMATE irony will ne when Western scientists and engineers (the smart guys with a useful skillset) start defecting TO Russia, to have jobs and freedoms.

They can keep their other "intellectuals" and army of "Service Providers": lawyers, accountants, PR people, pop-psychologists, hermaphrodites, pedophiles, troglodytes, political advisers and fluffers, bankers...

/ Retired starship captains and officers should still be useful, eh Mr. Chekhov? / [wink]

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:48 | 4643859 Nigh Eve
Nigh Eve's picture

Don't forget solar panels and wind turbines.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:21 | 4642987 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Who runs Bartertown?

It's a "debt is money" world folks where all that matters is your full "faith and credit".

In other words, no faith means no more credit motherfuckers...

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:25 | 4643004 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

There's a problem though... for whatever reason, Auntie is able to keep a lot of thugs at her disposal.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:35 | 4643059 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Well, one thing is for sure.  If no one in the world has any faith in you, then you better have the strength (i.e. military might) to acquire what you need by "other" means...

oh wait...


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:42 | 4643081 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

We all know how wars on two fronts work out,let alone maybe four.

Can you spell  F U C K E D in Chinese or Russian.

Time to learn.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:51 | 4643114 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I suppose, by any rational human being's definition of it, the USA  pan-OPTI-conic military is stretched a little "thin".

Interesting, all the new FED three letter agencies need "experienced" goons for hire.

The social engineer's dream outcome is the common man's night-mare.


People here following the Cliven Bundy story in Nevada?

Any of you packing heat and going Nevadawards?

Whats up Libertarians?

Sick Simmer WHAT?

Ill winds.


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:05 | 4643216 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Another time to act, another opportunity lost. Talk of revolution is always muted during showdowns with The Empire.

Bring on the collapse.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:13 | 4643676 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Or maybe it's a trap.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 14:10 | 4644170 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Or not.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:59 | 4643183 centerline
centerline's picture

Read it recently elsewhere...

Something about when goods (trade) stops crossing borders troops do.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:22 | 4642991 Racer
Racer's picture

Oooo, lots of bad news, that should be good for a couple of thousand points on the dow

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:23 | 4642996 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

S&P to the Blood Red Moon, Alice!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:25 | 4643010 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Sorry IR, Alice is in chains...

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:49 | 4643050 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Merkel in Chains



Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:57 | 4643170 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Merkel in chains....hmmmmm

With one of those bite balls in her mouth?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:14 | 4643685 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Release the Hillary!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 17:32 | 4644996 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

She was overhead moaning in her sleep: "Phil McCracken, Phil McCracken!". ;-)

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:22 | 4642993 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Ruh Roh! 

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:23 | 4642997 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

Putin got them all by the nuts

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:29 | 4643019 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

No worries, neocon Nuland is on the job.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:33 | 4643045 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

I am wondering how long it is gonna take those idiots in EU and USSA to understand that talk is not strength. And when deplomacy fails, they will probably over react. Typical stupidity.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:24 | 4643001 Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

A reminder to "pay to play"?  Ante up.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:24 | 4643002 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Wakeup Euro heads. Join the Anti-Bolshevik Federation, purge the globe of the scurge of the New Bolsheviks, join the human race and send the alien khazars to hell. The world economy will grow infinitely.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:26 | 4643013 RetiredSilverBug
RetiredSilverBug's picture

Cut it OFF! Russia should reduce that crazy trade surplus.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:28 | 4643017 Confundido
Confundido's picture

This is pure bluff for the Russian voters. Has Chavez or Maduro ever stop supplying oil? Big NO! While would Putin do the same and risk lower revenues? This is all pro-russian propaganda and I am surprised how easily it is accepted by the ZH readership....

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:33 | 4643042 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

He is currently negotiating a delivery price with China for he wants to get a little competition going. He can surely slow it down to Europe.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:35 | 4643056 Titus
Titus's picture

No, this is econ 101. Supply and demand muthafucka!

Putin has leverage right now and he's using it.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:51 | 4643134 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

"Has Chavez or Maduro ever stop supplying oil? Big NO!"

That's because Venezuela does not have a captive market, like Russia does; nor other natural resources that Russia does. Venezuela's economy is in shambles, unlike Russia.

Russia is not Venezuela. Those are facts, not propaganda. Don't let the bullshit the media has fed you cloud your view of facts.   

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:09 | 4643252 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LMFAO!!!  Russia is not south america moron....


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:22 | 4643326 Seer
Seer's picture

"While would Putin do the same and risk lower revenues?"

Since you asked...

The Russians saw this coming a mile away, with Ukraine's ability to actually pay of the energy that they got highly in doubt.  Europe, which is pretending that they're going to help bail out Ukraine, is also broke.  For a better understanding of why Russia is questioning the economic capabilities of Europe:


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:05 | 4643621 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Stupid...Russians don't bluff in real.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:29 | 4643021 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Banksters need to pay Putin and up my FAFSA or we are going to start sending them bills and have debt collectors call them on their cell phones.. They are debtors. That's what debtors do.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:30 | 4643027 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

they done fucked with the wrong mother fucker...

"you best protect your neck"

Wu Tang Clan

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:31 | 4643030 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

More talk.

Wake me when GProm turns the tap.


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:23 | 4643334 Seer
Seer's picture

Go back to sleep.  Your "contributions" are of little value here.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:46 | 4643496 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture



Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:31 | 4643032 Russian Men
Russian Men's picture

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:37 | 4643062 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Upvoted, ode to 4' 33"


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:31 | 4643033 HRamos_3
HRamos_3's picture

You must really like Chinese trinkets & collateral, Putin.

Just pick up your threats and go sell some ice in the north pole.

Good luck with that. Long euro-utilities.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:29 | 4643423 zstard
zstard's picture

Hey...those aren't trinkets! Those are US backed king Dollar$

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:31 | 4643034 A_Nejad
A_Nejad's picture

I have a baaad feelings about Ukraine and the next 48 hours....Here in Europe we almost had a fist fight between the Russian delegation and other delegates...These things always happen right at the start of weekend (well DUH..), so stay tuned... 

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:57 | 4643173 DoneThis2Long
DoneThis2Long's picture

Pooteen has examined the field, long n hard. Hell, I'd not be surprised if he did not gain full access to Snowden's files. Anyway, it does not take a genius to figure out his potential adversaries are playing w/ a weak hand, and .... this might even go a long way in further dividing NATO/G7.

As I posted on another thread, the west side of the former Iron Curtain countries - x E Germany - should have formed their own neutral "sub-block", even if with a west bias, just to play it safe, and act as a buffer. I think they could have gained from both sides. OTOH, after having been under russian boots for better part of 45-50 years, they were all eager to bolt, and turn on the former master, just as are many of America's "allays".

Obama & his gang, are not a match for Putin. Obama is a flame thrower, not a problem solver. Destruction is his forte, not, mediation and moderation. The state of this nation will vouch for that.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:31 | 4643401 Seer
Seer's picture

"Obama & his gang, are not a match for Putin. Obama is a flame thrower, not a problem solver."

This isn't a wrestling match.

Ukraine and Eurupe are on Russia's borders.  Russia has actual exportable resources.  And, they're tired of the West's continual attempts at destabilizing Russia.  Blowback is not a mystery.  And, well, this is a shift away from customers who are becoming more and more unable to pay.  Business and political reasons.  Seems plenty rational.

"Destruction is his forte, not, mediation and moderation. The state of this nation will vouch for that."

What is there to mediate/moderate?  That is, what position is there (regardless of who could be sitting in the POTUS chair)?

"As I posted on another thread, the west side of the former Iron Curtain countries - x E Germany - should have formed their own neutral "sub-block", even if with a west bias, just to play it safe, and act as a buffer."

How "safe" can you expect to be when you don't have resources?  And they'd export to Europe because Europe is such a strong market?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:58 | 4643519 HRamos_3
HRamos_3's picture

Yeah, after all all that Russia gets from Europe in exchange for raw materials, gas & oil is services, machinery and transport equipment, chemicals, medecines, agricultural products, and 75% of their foreign investment.

But hey, they invented Tetris, Vodca & Balalaikas, so i guess that evens things out.

Korobushka, bitch!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:12 | 4643663 DoneThis2Long
DoneThis2Long's picture

I am uncertain if you are looking for an argument, or you just missed the points of my comments?

"This isn't a wrestling match."

Who stated so, and how did you arrive at that brilliant conclussion?

"What is there to mediate/moderate?  That is, what position is there (regardless of who could be sitting in the POTUS chair)?"

Among other things, non-complicance with a contract which Russia signed back in '94, as well as, an invasion of a sovereign nation .... unless you buy into those non-military military who moved into Crimea, in which case, you clearly are confusing this with a WWE - or whatever the hell it is called today - match.

"How "safe" can you expect to be when you don't have resources?  And they'd export to Europe because Europe is such a strong market?"

You should do your homework, before attempting to engage in a pissing match. I'd love to spend more time but I must split. Realy do some studying of that area.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:32 | 4643039 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

lazy fucking socialist europeans waiting for the US to intervene


let them freeze in europe - maybe that will wake these fuckers up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:37 | 4643060 A_Nejad
A_Nejad's picture

Hey, stop confirming you're a stupid American with this sorta comments. Read before..oh wait..

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:33 | 4643414 Seer
Seer's picture

Wake up so that they can be aware that they're freezing, and then what?  Invade Russia to steal energy?

Drug addicts always blame everything/everyone else for the problems their habit gets them in to.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:41 | 4643467 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This is the future, Seer.

Imagine a future where you pay those billions in arrears and the gas still doesn't flow.

You demand the oil or gas flow.  Russia says . . . we're saving it for our grandchildren.

No one else has any to spare.

Then what?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:53 | 4643547 Seer
Seer's picture

Like I said, addiction is the problem of the "individual."  No one put a gun to the heads of the Ukrainians and told them they had to use/buy NG.

Pretty certain that we'll hear the story line that the benvolent West has been looking to create alternate gas flows for this very reason of Russia holding other countries hostage.  Never mind that the West (US) has esssentially been provoking it all along by way of trying to destabilize Russia.

It's all one big cluster-fuck.  And it's not going to get better.

The Germans will make high-quality widgets for the rich in Russia and China in exchange for energy.  Rest of Europe will freeze.  And none of this has anything to do with my personal preference.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 15:11 | 4644394 trader1
trader1's picture

 which is why lng export to europe will become a profitable venture

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:33 | 4643041 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Methinks what used to be backroom negotiations are now carried out via the screaming headliners of th ecountry-wise owned and pwned MSM.

CNN/NYT Vs. Pravda/RT Vs. MURDER ROCK inc......


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:54 | 4643150 Leaping Lizard
Leaping Lizard's picture

Nah!  Negotiations are kept simple through Twatter NewSpeak now.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:34 | 4643425 Seer
Seer's picture

Always been that way.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:36 | 4643046 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

No probs! US Asst Sec of State extraordinaire Victoria Nuland (nee Nudleman) Kagan on her way to hike up her skirt to blow all the butt methane the EU needs!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:34 | 4643048 HamRove
HamRove's picture

Anyone remember a 3 Billion Aid package by the US that was suppose to go to Ukraine so that Ukriane could pay off Russia for past due payment for Natural Gas?

Yeah well, the fuckin bill is due today.

And I seem to remember the House stopped the Aid package with Rand Paul coming out saying exactly that.

Ukraine is in collections of have yor shit turned off. He was nice enough to wait until after winter.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:58 | 4643176 813kml
813kml's picture

Rand Paul is a smug twat.  That is all.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:28 | 4643365 HamRove
HamRove's picture

He's in the senate....They're all smug twats....what's your point?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:40 | 4643455 813kml
813kml's picture

My point is that the only thing Rand has in common with his father is their last name.  I've seen his name thrown about on ZH as a possibility for Prez in 2016.  He would get most if not all of all the independent vote by riding on his father's coattails, but he would be more of the same.   If not worse, he takes arrogance and smugness to a whole new level.  It's all very calculated, don't think this fact is lost on Republican party "leadership".

More importantly, he has a punchable face.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:48 | 4643508 Seer
Seer's picture

But the "point" has absolutely NO point with regards to Rand seeking to block the money.  Message.  Messenger. (and fine for you if you wish to punch him in the face- I cannot argue there)

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:26 | 4643635 813kml
813kml's picture

My "point" did have a little to do with blocking the money, Rand does the party's bidding because he has designs on the White House.

Sorry if my opinion of that entitled douche offends you.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 13:25 | 4644004 HamRove
HamRove's picture

I'm of the opinion that cleaning house is in order....that would include Rand, but I have more respect for him in the senate than just about every other douche in there.

That being said the US's duplicitous "AID" package was nothing but a payoff to Russia. Had that gone through Ukraine would have paid its debt and this stupid financial war could go one for a few more years for all we know.

I dig Nigel Tufkin btw.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 18:10 | 4644186 813kml
813kml's picture

My rant about Rand was somewhat off-topic, just wanted to point out that he is yet another stooge trying to keep in his party's good graces for a shot at the big prize.  The Republican decision to block the package is all about politics and undermining Obama to make him look weak(er).  Just another example of gridlock and disconnect from the reality of anything beyond the Beltway circle jerk.

The ignorant children of Congress will still be arguing about parliamentary procedure as the mushroom clouds appear outside their window.  That's the only sure way to clean house.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:54 | 4643554 Seer
Seer's picture

Are you down-arrowing me?  Should I look to do the same? (That is rather punkish, no?)

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:12 | 4643586 813kml
813kml's picture

I didn't downvote you.

You're right that my extreme dislike of Rand Paul didn't have much to do with the original post, I just get nauseous whenever I hear his name and had to get it out.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:34 | 4643052 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

What's the problem with his approach?  He's pumping nat gas but not getting paid!  Shut it off, you maintain your reserves and aren't giving them away for FREE and as it is with gas stations, SEE the cashier before you can PUMP...Putin is no chump unlike our Barry and Putin's babes don't look like a Wookie....

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:38 | 4643064 pilager
pilager's picture

Maybe I will add a few Ukrainians to my Greek order....

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:38 | 4643065 Element
Element's picture

Yup, here it comes, ... EU, meet cliff and abyss.

Now, who runs barter town?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:39 | 4643070 new game
new game's picture

i'm not so sure of the bluff, because if he does turn it off, they will pay pretty fast, and then it flows again. what other option does euro(germnay) have? unless this escalates into a hot conflict by none other than mercenaries doing the work of their employer...

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:42 | 4643084 A_Nejad
A_Nejad's picture

There is no other option.  The bitch in Germany looking towards the West and asks "now what?"...Than they say women are bad drivers.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:55 | 4643158 813kml
813kml's picture

I think Germany is tired of the headaches from the EU and US, I would look for German and Russian pragmatism to find common ground very soon.  They would be a premium addition to the BRICS.

I also think that the US dragging their heels on repatriating German gold was a desperation move to keep Germany under the US thumb.  Germany has to know by now that they will never get it back if the US even has it.

Germany is literally fighting for their survival but their oppressor is the US, not Russia.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:36 | 4643336 eurogold
eurogold's picture

+ 1000 for 813kml.    WOW !!! I am so glad that you are here ! I agree with you totally ! Keep it coming ! Germany put is's trust in the  U.S.A. and again it got shafted -

There are lots of reasons why Germany it's pissed off at the U.S. ( NSA spying, Gold repatriation delays, etc.).

Germany is waiting for exactly the right moment to tell the U.S. to fuck off.

I can't wait for when that happens!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:40 | 4643723 813kml
813kml's picture

Thanks for the love, eurogold.  

And good point about the NSA, getting caught spying on your allies is the death knell of trust.  Americans living under their propaganda biodome have no idea how disgusted US allies are about the NSA.  I think that was the final straw for Germany, and the US stirring up Ukraine is the final final straw.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:45 | 4643488 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Germany's gas supply doesn't transit Ukraine.  They aren't affected by all this.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:57 | 4643572 Seer
Seer's picture

"They aren't affected by all this."

Well, it IS a global market.  And, Germany ought to be concerned with a ramped up number of cold, starving masses around its borders (as it does business with the country that turned off the gas to those cold and starving masses).

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:05 | 4643626 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Russian Gas to Germany does transit through shit-hole, extortionist Ukraine, that's the issue here.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:40 | 4643074 youngman
youngman's picture

So now the poor Ukranians can recycle all that pipe...there is some cash there somewhere..long LNG tankers and small LP tanks

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:22 | 4643329 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Two possibilities to keep the gas flowing.

1. EU literally invades and takes over Ukr to 'police' the flows.

2. Russia does the same.


If Russia does the takeover then all Ukr debts are null and void.


I know which one the IMF wants....what will happen today ?

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:40 | 4643460 Seer
Seer's picture

Long-term Europe is moot.  Russia is shifting markets, as well they should.

Natural resources are scarce.  Stupid to drain your country's resources so that they can be frittered away on the cheap, by people who work to destabilize your country.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:40 | 4643075 DoneThis2Long
DoneThis2Long's picture

Diet rich in sauerkraut should go a long way in helping. Joymans are ingenious in exceptional engineers & problem solvers.


Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:40 | 4643076 smacker
smacker's picture

Ha-Ha. So, Putin is proposing that Europe/IMF send in truckloads of money to Ukraine to pay off its debts to Russia, else it only gets more gas via pre-payment, but also sends in people to manage the flow of gas thru Ukraine intended for Europe in case Ukraine pilfers it on its way thru their country (which of course it would do).

That ought to hit the EU & IMF right where it hurts: in the printing press.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:41 | 4643079 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Hey why not just print up a few trillion Euros and hand them to Putin? Oh....he's not buying that central bankster stock pumping bullshit?

Uh oh,

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:24 | 4643339 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

In this case I think Putin may demand GOLD as payment.  heh.  there it is.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:49 | 4643517 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Would you gold wackos PLEASE stop corrupting adult threads?

Gold has no function in Russian society.  Russia isn't EVER going to decide that all future oil or gas transaction be for gold because there's no point to it.

Now, they MAY do deals for food.  Or semi slave labor shipped to Moscow from Paris to do toilet cleaning and general maid service.

See?  Food has purpose.  Labor has purpose.  That's what you ask for instead of Euros.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:43 | 4643087 joego1
joego1's picture

Here we go Europe sells the Ukraine to Russia for $100 billion, land deal of the century.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:46 | 4643096 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Gold is the preferred method of pre-payment!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:19 | 4643314 DoneThis2Long
DoneThis2Long's picture

it sure as hell won't be USD. Will NG be the 1st commodity to be officially priced in yuan or even: Euro, USD and Yuan?! After all, EU was formed to counter US' (former) strength.

From the looks of things, Globalization is turning out to have far different effects than those counted on ... at least openly and by some. The major proponent, forgot that while the US is a young country, all others have deeeeeep nationalistic roots, which are now surfacing, more than ever. Throw in religion, over-population, shortages, etc etc and you have one explosive mix.

The US could not have been in any worse of a leadership position .... as well as financal and economic.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:46 | 4643099 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

"We dont need no stinking gas, you are a fucking dictatorship! GTFO of Crimera!" ... 3 weeks later ... "Sirs, here is your money. Nice doing business with you. Tell Mr. Putin we didnt mean it".

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:46 | 4643103 A_Nejad
A_Nejad's picture

I think most in here oversee the burning factor: Russia never said they wanted those payments in dollars, remind you.  There's a bigger plan behind this move.  The chess guy is moving his Bishop and he's going for the heart.  Cool down now Vlad, we see you.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:38 | 4643447 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Germany and Russia should form an axis, game over !

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:47 | 4643104 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

This must bring Angela back to her days with the Stazi!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:47 | 4643105 pilager
pilager's picture


"what's that noise"
" I don't know but it's getting cold in here"
" turn on the heat"
"..... It's on"

Knock-knock, someone at the door....
"I give you one log for, heat, I take you wife for my heat.
It's called "the smart meter"

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:47 | 4643108 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

So it seems that Silk Road into Duisburg idea is less of an offer, more of a demand.  Europe will turn pro-Russia and the US in opposition will fall.  Necessity will win out.  Can't see it happening any other way really.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:09 | 4643247 813kml
813kml's picture

That would be the logical course of events, and the US will fight it all the way.  The question is whether that fight will be fought with dollars or bullets.

"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities."  -- Churchill

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:27 | 4643366 smacker
smacker's picture

10 out of 10 for quoting Churchill.


If it comes down to fighting with dollars or bullets, I predict they'll throw sackfulls of dollars.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 15:25 | 4644517 trader1
trader1's picture

the eu now has the upper hand in the ttip negotiations

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:54 | 4643120 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

kiev is israel now.

the germans gave 5 nuke subs to israel as a gift as tribute.

putin must give the nazi kiev jew yats tribute with free gas.

israel demands it so it must be so.

everything must come to the jewish folks cheap or free.

the debt must be repaid remember

you stood by and let the hollow cause happen.

you are all guilty and you must all pay compensation

pay for the  crimes against the jew

pay into saturn pay forever  into demonic masonic infinity

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:00 | 4643189 A_Nejad
A_Nejad's picture

Tony, it's just the Jewish history in Europe, in the midst of repeating itself right in front of your eyes...we go waaaay back, like medieval way back.  They "rent" a place for a while, and move on when they screw up the joint  and their lease contract is revoked... 

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:44 | 4643476 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Tony Wilson, you are such an anti-semite troll.

By the way,the 5 subs are not "nuke" powered,  were not "given" to Israel.

check the facts before continuing to discredit yourself.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:57 | 4643576 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture


subs are nuked up you fool

nuked missiles upped

4 subs now i believe as syria sunk one that is why they got low yield nuked from a sub funny enough

i am semite

and yet i am anti semite

i am simply anti evil

anti saturn

anti cern

anti zion

i have no credit to discredit you fucking dolt : )

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:10 | 4643651 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Read your own comment you douchebag !

If Israel wants to arm the the subs with nukes, then that is  their business and not what you wrote,

you douchebag !

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:06 | 4643630 Seer
Seer's picture

Did Israel pay for the subs?  If so, where did that money come from? (US "aid?")

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:33 | 4643698 eurogold
eurogold's picture

The building of ( in Germany ) and financing was a German Government deal involving the full payment by Israel

for ( I think 2 ) and partial payment for the others, another 2 or 3.

Who cares who pays for them? Does the U.S. pay or do they print for everything ?

The subs are of the quietest most modern generation ( fuelcell powered ) They could be up your ass and you wouldn't know it.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:49 | 4643126 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

If Vladdy keeps this up he will be odds on favorite to win the Nobel Peace Prize for Economics!

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:51 | 4643132 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

In the middle of winter what would you prefer to have ? A fist full of Euro's or US$s, or a bountiful supply of nat gas at a reasonable price. Irony is that
Western nations are willing to print for Banksters, Polititians and Empire Preservation, but reluctant to print for Russian nat gas. In essence, Russia is demanding equal rights and access to Fiat currency in exchange for energy-----which they will succeed in obtaining.

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:54 | 4643155 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

'Jumpin' Vlad Flash is a gaz, gaz, gaz'

Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:00 | 4643187 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Well, Obama can just back up the tankers to all of those LNG plants we have.  We will have gas to Europe in no time. 

Wait, what?  No plants?  No way to get gas to Europe? 

Can we fly it, I mean, its fucking gas, right?

Oh, look over there...there's a rancher with a gun.  EVERYONE look at them!

And look, more people want to sign up for Health Care!

Everything thing is easy peasy lemon squeezy.

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