This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

As The Bitcoin Bubble Bursts, Digital Currencies Have A Dilution Problem

Tyler Durden's picture




 

There was a time when people followed every gyration of bitcoin with pathological curiosity, peaking roughly five months ago when after having generated an epic return for 2013 as more and more momentum chasers got on board, the digital currency flirted with the $1000 (in USD terms) level on a daily basis. Then it peaked, almost to the day when this article came out, and ever since then it has been a slow, painful grind lower both for its holders and for its proponents, as can be seen on the chart below.

Needless to say, now that the bitcoin bubble popped, both the interest, and the momentum has been lost, as has the desire to "mine" bitcoin, which as we profiled previously, requires massive, expensive computer workstations. Or rather required. Because as Bloomberg reports, the Bitcoin mining bubble has also burst.

Speculators, known as miners, use powerful computers to solve complex software problems and verify transactions to unlock new bitcoins. They’re finding that the enterprise isn’t as profitable as it once was.

 

Drawn by the virtual currency’s jump in value last year, digital prospectors have turned the mining industry into an arms race as they buy expensive computing equipment and gobble up electricity. While that worked well as long as bitcoin’s value kept rising, smaller players are now being crowded out by bigger competition, high utility bills and declining prices.

 

If you mine at the moment, you have to be very lucky to get anything,” said Mehmet Vatansever, who bought $16,000 worth of mining computers in February to chase after new bitcoins. “It’s a very difficult business.”

End result: Ebay is suddenly flooded with supercomputers whose only purpose was to create more bitcoins, and whose upkeep now that the price of bitcoin has tumbled, costs more than the profit from selling mined bitcoins.

While he has been able to create new bitcoins, Vatansever soon discovered that his equipment was on track to earn less than his monthly utility bill of $480. After selling his computers on EBay Inc. in April, Vatansever estimates that he lost a total of about $6,000 on his mining adventure.

 

In the past week, miners made $14.9 million in revenue, compared with a weekly average of $25.2 million in December, according to Blockchain.info, an bitcoin-data aggregator. The figures represent the number of bitcoins mined plus transaction fees, multiplied by the dollar-based market price.

 

EBay now features more than 1,600 listings for mining computers, many of them used.

To be sure, while smaller operators have thrown in the flag, mining is still profitable for the scale operators who are crowding out minor players.

While individuals give up prospecting, at least two other larger mining companies, KnCMiner and Cloud Hashing, are still generating profits. By scaling up operations, they’ve been able to save costs on cooling and power, making their computers more efficient and cost-effective. KnCMiner also sells mining computers to other miners.

 

KnCMiner, based in Stockholm, operates about 7,000 machines. While the mining company’s electric bill in March came to $450,000, the computers mined 21,000 bitcoins, according to co-founder Sam Cole.

However, the biggest losers are not the miners, especially if they can take the accelerated tax depreciation write off on their supercomputers (unless these can somehow be converted into HFT trading machines), but the sellers of these same machines.

Mining-equipment suppliers are feeling the cool-down firsthand. CoinTerra Inc., a manufacturer of the powerful computers used to crunch numbers for new bitcoins, has seen new sales shrink by 30 percent in the past three weeks from the preceding period, according to CEO Ravi Iyengar.

 

Mining-equipment suppliers are also detecting early signs of a shift to new virtual currencies. Approximately 250 KnCMiner customers switched their orders from $10,000 computers to similarly priced alternative-currency mining machines in the past three weeks, according to Cole.

And there is of course AMD, whose Radeon video cards experienced a dramatic surge in popularity as a cheaper alternative to self contained workstations, only to feel the sudden pullback in demand now (and if it hasn't yet, it will soon).

But the biggest irony is the following:

Because they are newer, designed differently and currently mined by fewer people, currencies such as Litecoin can be more profitable, according to CoinWarz, which tracks mining activity. “The new rush right now is Litecoin,” Colin Lusk, a network engineer in Portland, Oregon, said in an interview.

 

While he once mined only bitcoins, Lusk now uses five of his eight machines to produce Litecoins and other virtual currencies. Created in 2011, Litecoin is similar in design to bitcoin yet requires less computing power. A $3,500 computer can produce $25 worth of Litecoins a day for $3 in electricity, while producing $20 worth of bitcoins would cost $17, Lusk said.

Spot the irony yet? As the bitcoin bubble bursts, the residual price momentum and "mining" bubbles remain only in those currencies where the "mining" of bitcoin is easier. This explains the shift from bitcoin to litecoin. In other words, where it is easier to create digital currencies out of thin air and where there is still a momentum-based surge in popularity. In yet other words - to permit a faster dilution of the existing currency pool.

But what is it that those who oppose fiar rage against? Why the eagerness and desire of central bankers to dilute said fiat at the first deflationary whim in order to protect their banking "custodians."

Who would have though that the digital currency crew would so promptly fall for the same "dangling carrot" incentives that all the fiat proponents are so tempted by on a daily basis...

Then again, monetary alchemy is nothing new - after all people were trying to convert lead into gold centuries before the US Dollar was the reserve currency. Luckily, they failed.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:09 | 4649570 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Of course.  As Boris pointed out a few weeks ago, the fundamental problem with virtual currencies is that there is no scarcity. 

And as always, Gresham's Law applies.

Bad money drives out the good.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:20 | 4649597 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Not one mention of the actual use of bitcoin--bypassing currency controls.

Long Bitcoin is long currency controls and short central banks.

Tyler is a piece of shit for writing this article like this.  Bitcoin was never about "returns".  Those were just a nice side effect.  The point was that you could transact over long distances without using "trusted" third parties like piece of shit banks.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:25 | 4649611 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Your bitterness, which obviously stems from BC losses, is palpable.

You were a fool to imagine that BC would thrive precisely because of its potential to circumvent the banking system. It is/was ludicrous to believe that TPTB would sit back and allow it to be used unchecked in that manner. 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:26 | 4649618 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You sound like a beaten dog, hoping his master drops some scraps.

Pathetic.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:31 | 4649630 Tinky
Tinky's picture

It's even more sad you would confuse those who were correctly skeptical of BC with supporters of the current system. I have always maintained (on ZH) that PMs were preferable to BC.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:34 | 4649643 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You are correct about nothing.  Just because something was in a bubble doesn't mean it will disappear.  We still have internets, railroads, and yes, even tulips.  I suspect bitcoin will mirror the former two more than the latter.

That said, I'm sure you don't use precious metals for day to day transactions.  Why do you continue to use (and de facto defend) the dollar when you have an alternative?  ANY alternative.

Bitcoin was never meant to be an alternative to gold.  It is meant to be first and foremost an alternative to SWIFT type systems and secondarily an alternative to fiat currency.  Hell, it makes Freegold from a lunatic fantasy into something resembling inevitable.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:36 | 4649652 knukles
knukles's picture

Gresham's Law (A Subset of Unintended Consequences)

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:36 | 4649655 wallstreetapost...
wallstreetaposteriori's picture

HAHAHHAHAHHAHAH.....foneystar....

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:41 | 4649668 Slave
Slave's picture

I think he commited suicide?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:09 | 4649753 CH1
CH1's picture

So, for the 10th time Bitcoin has died?

Is it 11? Or 12?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:49 | 4649882 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'Who would have though that the digital currency crew would so promptly fall for the same "dangling carrot" incentives that all the fiat proponents are so tempted by on a daily basis...'

I did, and have openly been saying so since day 1.

Bitcoin is as fiat as any paper currency but in unlimited multiples.

Do yourselves a favour, buy gold.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:15 | 4649941 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Unimpressed Tyler

1. BTCGuild total hash rate went up by 1 full petahash in the past week alone. Hardly indicative of decreased mining.

2. Cointerra is losing sales because they just finally delivered their first miner and it was well below all advertised specs in both performance and power effiiceincy.

3. When bitcoiners talk about coin dilution, they are talking about spreading the hoarding by a small group, not the dilution by creating more currency units. Very weak

4. The price action is completely in line with what BTC did after the 3 other times it spiked 1000%

Come on you can do better than this fluff work

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:53 | 4650047 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Jesus Christ, look at that fucking chart. What about that chart indicates an imminent 1000% jump? Bitcoin's 15 minutes are over. It was a momentum play from the very beginning and the momo boys and girls have moved on. Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:00 | 4650071 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Do you ever bother learning about something before mouthing off against it?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Faq

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:10 | 4650099 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Um, for the same reason I don't have to go to the Scientology Wiki page to mouth off against it. Do you want to know why bitcoin is dying? Because other than Internet fools who think they will take over the world, on a gut level people know that bitcoins dont represent anything real and aren't worth anything.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:26 | 4650130 aminorex
aminorex's picture

Bitcoins represent reified scarcity.  The world faces a peak scarcity situation.  Bitcoin is there to save the world.  The current price trend has been anticipated by all informed players since 2012.  Everything is proceeding according to plan.  In 2015 bitcoin will never trade at less that USD 2000.  The first 1 million USD bitcoin trade will occur in 2017.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:35 | 4650322 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

This article is an attempt to sucker people into litecoin.

Who is Olga Kharif? She is from Portland Oregon.

Why is Portland mentioned so often?

Everyone cited in this article is from Portland.

Something fishy going on here.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:28 | 4650382 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

 

 

BECAUSE a fucking asset that goes up 100x will never see ANY PROFIT-TAKING.  

 

YEAH RIGHT.  All you're seeing are the yatchs of the new BTC millionaires.  

 

DEAL WITH IT.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:53 | 4650349 tmosley
tmosley's picture

$1 million/BTC, absent a USD collapse, implies world reserve currency status for bitcoin.

I'm not that bullish.  This will be a long, hard fight, and that fight won't end until governments around the world have been shattered and reduced to more proper roles by the vigorous right hook of the cryptoanarchists.

Godspeed to those fine men.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:55 | 4650414 CognacAndMencken
CognacAndMencken's picture

 

 

Hey TMosley!  I've got a few questions for you.  

In the conversation below, you condescendingly say: "participation in the system is SUPPORT for the system."  If I remember correctly, not only are you a chemist but you also spend quite a lot of time applying for government grants.  In fact, in one conversation, you even said that you helped write the government grants; you're basically an academic welfare queen.  So.... using your own words, does this mean that you SUPPORT the federal government and the federal taxation needed to fund your grants? After all, participation is support... right? 

Also, a week before Mt. Gox imploded, you were arguing that bitcoins "could not be stolen on a systematic basis."  Here's your exact quote:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-11/another-bitcoin-flash-crash-imm...

However, as everyone knows, one week after your comment Mt. Gox - the largest, most popular bitcoin exchange - imploded in a firestorm of fraud and theft.  Do you think your comment from the prior week was foolish?

Another question.... In December 2013, you suggested that bitcoin could leapfrog in value by 1000X and you also equated bitcoin to the settling of America and the distribution of American land.  Here's what I'm referring to: 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-03/another-central-bank-warns-bitc...

Looking back 4 months, do you feel like a total fucking idiot or just 90% of a total fucking idiot?  May I remind you, at the time, bitcoin was at $1100+.  This reminds me of when you said silver was going to par with gold because of a supposed industrial panic right around the corner.  Pure lunacy.  

Also, here you are in December -- with bitcoin over $1100 -- pumping bitcoin like you did with silver, when silver was at $50. Better get it now, because it's running out!!!  Silver shortage it imminent!  Same with bitcoin!!  

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-03/another-central-bank-warns-bitc...

Again, looking back after a 70% collapse in price, do you feel idiotic telling everyone that pretty soon no one will be able to buy bitcoin "in size?"  

Here you say that bitcoin is fully transparent:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-03/another-central-bank-warns-bitc...

But two months later, the largest bitcoin exchange imploded and no one knows where all the bitcoins went?  Does this also make you feel like an idiot?

In the past 5 years, you could have put your money into virtually ANY asset and you would have made lots of money.  You choose two: silver and bitcoin - the two BIGGEST LOSERS out there.  I mean, seriously, mosley....  you picked the two biggest, most spectacular crashes the markets has seen in the past 5 years.  How do you feel about that?  Do you think it's possible that you're totally blinded by momentum trades, and stupid enough to chase them straight into the ditch?  

Last question... when is the COMEX going to implode?  I thought it was imminent three years ago..... 

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:03 | 4650449 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

Calling Silver a looser because of its contrived FIAT price in a rigged game is foolish and 100% stupid,unless you were "trading" on margin and got your face melted off. The drop in price is fine by me. I have added more to my pile in the last year than in the previous 4 put together. Sold some of those lovely paper assets that the FED resurrected from the dead to do so. I should write those criminal bastards a thank you note.Considering the world has doubled the money supply since the last time I was buying at $19 it is a screaming BUY so far as I am concerned.. Make no mistake, Silver is in a class of its own, and is already more rare above ground than Gold.

Bad mouthing a miracle metal makes you sound kind off like a "100% idiot".

I am sorry to argue but what the fuck is it that YOU like ? Stocks , bonds , ETFs , CDOs, CDSs, FIAT , CDs ,real estate, guns, beans ,bullets ,cognac, smokes , pot, oil ?

I am just curios, for the record, what horse are you betting on ?

You sound so sure of YOURSELF that I would be happy to hear your insight of what a buy is now that I know what you think the biggest losers are.

I have to be honest, you sound like such a fucking know it all asshole I could not care less what you think , I just would like for you to state your position , for the record , so that we can revisit your bets with the benefit of hindsight at some point in the future.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:57 | 4650462 I_rikey_lice
I_rikey_lice's picture

tmosley on bitcoin june 14, 2011

"I have read some on bitcoin.  I suggest people read the wiki article on it, ESPECIALLY the "Outcome" section, which lists possible failure modes.  This is very important.  This is basically a virtual currency similar to gold from WoW, or Linden dollars.  If interest wanes, then the currency is likely to fail, or even hyperinflate, as a rush to the exits will create rapidly escalating monetary velocity."

 

Here is the link

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 07:47 | 4650608 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

I am not sure what happened to the tmosley I used to read, but in his/her honor I am changing my description of the trap known as cryptocurrency from Beastcoin to Douchecoin.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 18:50 | 4655107 DigDeepDown
DigDeepDown's picture

There ya go! Oh and.. you're welcome :)

http://imgur.com/a/y6I8N

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 13:24 | 4651328 giggler321
giggler321's picture

>>Everything is proceeding according to plan

Who's plan?  Satoshi (while playing with his OO trains)?  Rothschild's?  Rockerfeller's?  both? or some other criminally minded, world dominating power?

I just figured a non-centrally planned currency would, well not be planned by a group who might try and profit just like those, ye'old central planners of old.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:26 | 4650131 aminorex
aminorex's picture

Bitcoins represent reified scarcity.  The world faces a peak scarcity situation.  Bitcoin is there to save the world.  The current price trend has been anticipated by all informed players since 2012.  Everything is proceeding according to plan.  In 2015 bitcoin will never trade at less that USD 2000.  The first 1 million USD bitcoin trade will occur in 2017.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:28 | 4650136 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Looks different in logarithmic scale and fits a pattern.  Who knows what the future holds but I'm betting long BTC.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:43 | 4650162 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Exactly what everyone said after it crashed back 80% the other 3 ti es it spiked up by 1000%. Every other time, it spikes, collapses, goes sideways for 6-12 months and then spikes again.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 07:30 | 4650585 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Been crunching some numbers... If a person bought a bitcoin on any day and held it for 1 year, the worst performance possible has been a 58% gain.  Coincidentally that was yesterday's dump and 1 year ago's peak of the April 2013 Cyprus bubble.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:34 | 4650959 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

That's funny, because your "1 year" comparisons are going to deteriorate steadily in the coming months. You could have done the same thing with AOL stock in the late 90's, but that didn't mean that AOL stock was a good investment at the time or that it wasn't going to continue to go down.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:07 | 4650090 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

The one big problem with Bitcoin is not the idea, the technology or the need for such a system outside of "the system". It is that it is not widely accepted enough to be very useful. Of all the transactions that I was a part of in the last year Bitcoin was accepted at exactly ZERO of those businesses. For a payment protocol , which is really all that Bitcoin is, that is a MAJOR problem for growth in users which is VITAL to its long term success. I like the idea but would not dare bet on the winner at this early stage of the game. I could be wrong but it seems like a terrible place to park much money unless you like to gamble on horse races. I hope not to piss anyone off with my humble opinion but rather continue to try to understand the evolution that this idea represents.

Kindest regards to the ZH brain trust.

Cheers and a great weekend to you all.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:29 | 4650143 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Coinmap.org just registered the 4,000th merchant that accepts BTC.  Last year there were about 100.  I expect this trend to continue.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:34 | 4650389 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

 

 

 

Those who bought bitcoin at 2012 are getting 1oz Au (if they want it) for $13.00

 

Do not underestimate exponential ADOPTION curves.  

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 07:43 | 4650602 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Do not underestimate exponential REVULSION curves

fify

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 05:25 | 4650514 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Yeah stackers. As much as I love the Tyler(s) they have been and are fucking clueless when it comes to Crypto.

 

I will laugh long and hard when bitcoin starts spiking next time

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:38 | 4650973 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

With a complete absence of snarkiness, what is going to drive the next bitcoin spike? The zealots are already invested in bitcoin. There is no evidence that big money is moving in even as a momentum play (the last four months of that chart indicates that). Bitcoin hasn't caught the attention of mom-and-pop investors. A spike requires people willing to trade a lot more of their mainstream fiat currencies for bitcoin on a large scale. What group is going to do that?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:50 | 4652425 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Patience, grasshopper!

One problem is U.S. investors do not have a trustworthy exchange to trade on.  I know of 3 industrial exchanges on U.S. soil that are in the works.  One by Google Ventures, another being created by 2nd Market and one by Circle.  

Of course, if you know the price is going down you should short it...  

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:45 | 4650339 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

If it's so easy to create digital "fiat" currencies out of thin air, why don't you do that yourself big and collect $400+ for each coin which you can convert into gold.

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:10 | 4650207 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

OMG PANIC BITCOIN IS $400, IT'S DEAD!!!!!!! Um hello it was $85 bucks 8 months ago.

People saying there's no scarcity have no clue. It's a protocol, not a website. Websites take two clicks to switch away, Friendster, MySpace, Facebook, whatever. Try switching away from TCP/IP or HTTP. Once people coalesce around a protocol, use it, build stuff on top...it tends to be very hard to dislodge.

Looks like your shiny stuff is the thing that is no longer scarce. 100:1 LBMA leverage, unlimited paper gold financial products, 20,000 naked short gold contracts dropped on a Sunday night...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:46 | 4650447 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

It strikes me as odd how on any other thread, the goldbugs will complain to no end how the price of gold is manipulated by TPTB. 

 

Inconsitency in arguments is an easy way to sniff out bullshit. 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:15 | 4649773 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

He didn't commit suicide.  His mom grounded him and he doesn't get interweb privileges for 3 whole months.

 

 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:42 | 4649865 Slave
Slave's picture

For what? Using her credit card to buy bitcoins @ $900?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:39 | 4650391 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

 

 

would you be so kind as to tell us for how long a period those people that are selling BTC for $400+ have been losing money?

 

By the end of 2015 1btc>>1 oz Au, and what will you be "reporting" then?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:42 | 4650982 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

It's not so much that they're losing money, because any gains or losses are paper gains/losses until you sell. The point is that the meme that bitcoin was going to 5 and 6 figures and all the people who bought bitcoin at $50 were going to be rich, rich, rich is evaporating like snow on a sunny day.

As far as 1 btc = 1 oz Au by Dec, 2015, I'll ask you - what dynamic is going to drive that? What group is going to move into bitcoin in a big enough way to reverse the downtrend? It's no longer the new kid on the block, and once rotation occurs out of the new, hot asset, it's hard to turn that around. Silver in the past 2-3 years is a great example of that.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:44 | 4649680 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Strawman. I didn't assert that it would necessarily disappear.

I use a variety of mediums for day to day transactions, include fiat currencies and credit cards only when necessary.

I'm all for the collapse of the current fiat/banking system, and am pulling further and further away from it, but I'll certainly try to avoid throwing money away in the process.

 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:49 | 4649697 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So you are saying that you have a bitcoin wallet so you can avoid transacting in dollars when the merchant takes them?

Or are you just lying to a stranger on the internet because you suddenly realize that your position is nonsensical?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:58 | 4649721 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Ad hominem attacks won't strengthen your case, nor your reputation.

I have not supported BC because I am not comfortable with it, and the notion that anyone who doesn't use it by definition supports TPTB is nonsense.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:04 | 4649742 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Not knowing the meaning of the term "ad hominem" won't strengthen yours.  I don't care about reputation.  I'm not a kid in high school.  I care about the TRUTH.

I can imagine you living back in the days of the Aztec blood cult rejecting the crazy new religion of Christianity even as you claim to hate all the murders carried out by the preists, even as you attend their events and pay your tithes.  Participation in the system is SUPPORT of the system.  The little thoughts fliting about in your brain don't change the fact that you pull out a credit card and pay a fee to Jamie for every transaction you make.

Recognizing that you are a slave in chains is only the first step.  You have to get those shackles completely off if you want to be free.  You can't do that while you are still making dollar transaction.  Bitcoin at least offers you an alternative for certain types of transactions.

But resisting social pressure is hard, so fack that.  Fuck transacting in PMs too.  Wouldn't want to look like a crazy person, after all.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:09 | 4649754 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Your use of Christianity in your analogy is perfect given the religious fervor with which you proselytize for BC.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:25 | 4650308 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Now THAT is ad hominem.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:36 | 4650325 skistroni
skistroni's picture

Let me show what ad hominem is: Did anybody tell you that you suck at trolling? #bringbackfonestar

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:34 | 4649646 zaphod
zaphod's picture

The game is not over, this is the 6th major BTC crash overall. 

Focus on the ecosystem which is still growing, price is irrelevant. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:28 | 4650233 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

A tiny comfort for those of us down from the high.  I am in at an average of $760 or so.  Good thing my palladium has made up for that loss.

No, I am not selling mine.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:46 | 4650998 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

An interesting question for you DoChen, at what level would you sell your bitcoin? Or a variation of that, how long would you put up with a slow, steady, grinding decline would you sell your bitcoin? It's a bit of a casino mentality. It's hard to sell a loser (or walk away from a poker table) because you might miss out on the big winning hand.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:56 | 4651052 Matt
Matt's picture

Not similar at all. Once you buy something, you can hold it at no cost indefinitely. With gambling, you have to ante in every hand. Unless, of course, you bought a speculative asset with credit.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 13:01 | 4651259 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

zaphod       The game is not over, this is the 6th major BTC crash overall.

---

6th crash? And this is a stable replacement currency?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:55 | 4652478 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

It is what it is.  A brand new asset class before it reaches market saturation will have wild fluctuations.  Pretty much impossible to avoid that.  Of course you are free to wait until stability increases or not use bitcoin at all.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:31 | 4649634 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I missed the tone of beat dog but clearly picked up the sound of bitterness that plans don't always workout the way we like..

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:41 | 4649669 tmosley
tmosley's picture

He uses dollars at literally every opportunity for transactions.  He purposefully gives 3% of all of his online payments to Jamie Dimon and his ilk.  He cowers in few of those he clearly considers to be his masters.  Sounds like a beaten dog to me.

I am not bitter about BTC.  It is a tiny holding compared to my PMs.  Rather I am FUCKING FURIOUS that Fed crypto-shills like Tyler focus on the popping of (the latest in a long line of) the bubbles of bitcoin like it has anything to do with anything.

The price of bitcoin has about as much to do with bitcoin's success as the price of railroad stocks has to do with the success of railroads.  Or you can apply the same logic to the internet bubble if you like.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:07 | 4649931 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Just ignore those that mock you and add small increments over time.

Remember everyone who supported bitcoin was mocked as a fool when btc crashed to $0.5 in 2010 and $2 in 2011, but they've since bought flights in virgin galactic, so who is laughing now.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 13:08 | 4651280 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

zaphod       Just ignore those that mock you and add small increments over time.

Remember everyone who supported bitcoin was mocked as a fool when btc crashed to $0.5 in 2010 and $2 in 2011, but they've since bought flights in virgin galactic, so who is laughing now.

---

Yes, those were the same people that bought tulips. As far as I know Virgin galactic didn't accept bitcoins. Thus you still had to transfer your bitcoins into fiat. Thus, you didn't use bitcoins as currency, but as a speculative asset.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:25 | 4649972 YC2
YC2's picture

Dude chill, the fact that competing currencies can undo the deflationary nature of the software is a blessing for its use as a medium of exchange.  I think you get that but you are all over the place (because it wasnt in the article maybe?)

 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:57 | 4650064 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The price of bitcoin has about as much to do with bitcoin's success

You really have gone off the deep end. Bitcoin is a currency. The price of bitcoin has everything to do with its success, just as the price of Zimbabwe dollars has everything to do with its success as a currency.

The real point of that article is that people have and are moving on from bitcoin into litecoin or whatevercoin. That's really the problem with crypto-currencies - they don't represent anything real and you can create an infinite number of variations on them.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:54 | 4650073 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

 <<people have and are moving on from bitcoin into litecoin or whatevercoin>>

There is a BTC-to-LTC ratio (set it on the 3-day chart).  I see no evidence people are "moving on" to other cryptos.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 10:41 | 4650833 StupidEarthlings
StupidEarthlings's picture

.."Bitcoin is a currency"..

Hmm.. I always thought it was a scam..dressed up and sold as a currency. 

Jmo?..

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:29 | 4649616 BC6
BC6's picture

Queue fonestar update on Satoshi siting to run bitcoin back to 600 pronto!  

I need more and faster hardware! BC to infinity!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:28 | 4649628 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Bitcoin has dumped many times before, just like this.  There is a long term swiss stair pattern on the log chart.  As I recall, it pointed to a low around 400 before the next spike up, which would take it into the multiple thousands, if the pattern held.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:59 | 4650068 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Multiple thousands, huh? Good luck with that. What is that retard fonestar? He's making you do all the heavy lifting defending that chart.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:28 | 4650312 tmosley
tmosley's picture

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328186.0

That chart is ancient, but we continue to follow the trendline.

You don't understand because you don't want to understand.  You are scared and threatened.  You really should just go and hide somewhere and stop spreading your FUD.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:52 | 4651031 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Scared and threatened? That's funny, because you sound like someone desperately trying to support a belief system (bitcoin is the future!!) when the real-world price action says otherwise. I think I actually understand what bitcoin is and represents very well. It is you who are scared and threatened that your religion is turning out to be a cargo cult.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:26 | 4649617 BC6
BC6's picture

dub

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:26 | 4649621 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

Even if that's the case T it doesn't change the fact it was horribly overvalued. Especially when you consider there's over 100 of these "Currencies" I'm not saying a way out of the dollar is a bad idea but going through easily manipulated digital currencies probably isn't the best path.

Our only monetary salvation is through physical...

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:30 | 4649632 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Is the dollar devalued by the existance of other fiat currencies?

Why do you choose to use the dollar rather than bitcoin where you have a choice?  Just have a deep abiding love of central bankers?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:38 | 4649844 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Yes, yes it is.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:15 | 4649946 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Damn T, you've pulled out all the stops, from Christianity to central bankers.

Have you ever considered that BitCoin is the epitome of "centralized banking"? The first one in, makes the most and cashes out first.

Kinda like dark pools of soros ;-)

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:40 | 4650013 espirit
espirit's picture

."KnCMiner, based in Stockholm, operates about 7,000 machines. While the mining company’s electric bill in March came to $450,000, the computers mined 21,000 bitcoins, according to co-founder Sam Cole".

And to think the taxpayer is on the hook for NSA's computer power. PureProfit!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:46 | 4650031 I_rikey_lice
I_rikey_lice's picture

"Have you ever considered that BitCoin is the epitome of "centralized banking"? The first one in, makes the most and cashes out first."

 

Exactly, why would anyone pay $400 for something that was essentially free a few years ago? Fucking fools.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:08 | 4650091 wintermute
wintermute's picture

FFS. Why do Google or Amazon shares cost far more than a few years ago? These companies started from near zero. Do you even think before you write?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:21 | 4650117 I_rikey_lice
I_rikey_lice's picture

"FFS. Why do Google or Amazon shares cost far more than a few years ago? These companies started from near zero. Do you even think before you write?"

 

Amazon and Google were private companies until their IPO's. The public never had a chance to buy them near zero. Amazon IPO was $18 and Google IPO was $85. Bitcoin could be had for almost nothing a few years ago by the public. Bad analogy.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:48 | 4650343 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin's IPO was on Jan 3, 2009.  It never had private investor status.  All assets (actual bitcoins) have always been available to the public to be mined, used, and traded freely.  During the early years you may have been sniffing glue, nobody's fault but your own.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:40 | 4650397 I_rikey_lice
I_rikey_lice's picture

"Bitcoin's IPO was on Jan 3, 2009.  It never had private investor status.  All assets (actual bitcoins) have always been available to the public to be mined, used, and traded freely.  During the early years you may have been sniffing glue, nobody's fault but your own."

 

Very true, if I had a time machine two of the first things I would buy would be Bitcoin and Bre-x. Knowing when to sell is the key.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:21 | 4650120 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

It's ironic that you used Amazon stock as your example, with a P/E ratio in the hundreds it's difficult to justify its current share price as anything other than a momentum play, rather like bitcoin.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:30 | 4650315 tmosley
tmosley's picture

But that's not at all like central bankers.  Central bankers make money by wrecking the currency.  Bitcoin early adopters made money by recognizing a world changing concept and acting on it.

The big boys aren't cashing out.  The blockchain is public.  You can look for yourself if you like.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 12:05 | 4651090 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Bitcoin early adopters made money..."

Made what? ;-)

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:29 | 4649982 Slave
Slave's picture

My dollars under the mattress, unlike your bitcoins, didn't just lose 2/3 of their value in a matter of months.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:05 | 4650080 wintermute
wintermute's picture

After a 75 times run up the year before. Oh yeah, you omit important facts which make your statement worthless.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:24 | 4650124 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Are you fonestar 2.0? Your "75 times run up" talking point has an expiration date on it I'm afraid. What will you say when the YoY change goes negative in a few months?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:32 | 4650318 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You know, there are exchanges where you can short bitcoin.

But you won't use them, because you are terrified that bitcoin will win a war it isn't even fighting.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:56 | 4651050 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Again, what's with the "terrified"? Why would I care if bitcoin were to go up to $2000 or more? There are lots of investements that in hindsight did well but at the time I had to decide whether to invest in them I passed up the opportunity. Seems like you are the one in the "denial" stage of the stages of grief. I assure you I don't get emotional about bitcoin one way or the other and really don't give a shit whether it lasts or not.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 13:13 | 4651293 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

tmosley   Is the dollar devalued by the existance of other fiat currencies?

Why do you choose to use the dollar rather than bitcoin where you have a choice?  Just have a deep abiding love of central bankers?

----

How about because in almost every situation, I am forced to use fiat to pay the bills. Can I pay my mortgage in bitcoins? NO

Can I pay groceries at the local store in bitcoins? NO

Can I pay my utilities in bitcoin? NO

Can I pay my insurances in bitcoin? NO

Can I pay for gasoline for my car in bitcoin? NO

Bitcoin is just a speculative asset like PMs. The difference is that PMs (while they may go lower), will never go to zero, I am not so sure of that in bitcoins.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:54 | 4650267 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

I remember some guy from Libya called Gaddafi. He had a very similar idea. Worked on a currency project designed to circumvent USD hegemony. Any idea what happened to him? 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 12:00 | 4651071 Matt
Matt's picture

Yeah, he failed to acquire nuclear weapons, so he got taken out.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:14 | 4649769 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

"There was a time when people followed every gyration of bitcoin with pathological curiosity......"

See: Zero Hedge user fonestar

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:22 | 4649960 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

As friction approaches zero Gresham's Law appears to reverse. I challenged Erik Vorhees to a debate on this exact topic this week. So far... no response.

www.tradewithdave.com

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:11 | 4649577 AUD
AUD's picture

The issuers of US dollars didn't though. They have indeed the Midas touch, though we all know what happened to King Midas.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:11 | 4649578 AUD
AUD's picture

The issuers of US dollars didn't though. They have indeed the Midas touch, though we all know what happened to King Midas.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:11 | 4649579 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

in all fairness we should overlap silver against that chart.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:15 | 4649586 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Good point fonz, but which would you rather own?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:16 | 4649589 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

apparently palladium. 

Seriously I just happen to like silver, Maybe even more than gold. It's just so damn pretty. Maybe that is why silver, even more than gold, pisses me off lately.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:28 | 4649627 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Silver takes the cake Fonz.  Someone's fucking with silver!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:29 | 4649631 seek
seek's picture

Silver's had me pissed off for a couple years now. I keep meaning to buy some more monster boxes, then realize how pissed I am still and don't.

Of course it's misplaced anger, since silver isn't responsible for this bullshit, but someone else...

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:33 | 4649642 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"they" won with me, when it comes to silver. I bought silver all the way up to $48. Then I bought plenty in the 30s and 20's on it's way down. But here it sits at $20, like a brick. I could be averaging my cost down every week for the last 3 years. But instead I don't touch it. I have actually caterorized it as the worst investment decision I have ever made, and that is saying something. But we gotta call a spade a spade right? All the other things I could have done with my money.....I know, I know....one day......

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:00 | 4649736 seek
seek's picture

I could have written what you just said. At least the fact that I got into AU early offsets my silver losses somewhat. Before I lost everything in that boating accident, of course.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:12 | 4649938 BigJim
BigJim's picture

We ZHers must be the worst sailors, ever.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:59 | 4650066 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, but we're great with charts and knowing where we've been ;-)

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:04 | 4650199 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Patience Grasshopper.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:20 | 4650221 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Hey that's my line , usually used discussing bitcoin.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:47 | 4650256 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I hear all of you guys re losing money in silver and Bitcoin.  Still, I am not selling mine.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:39 | 4650394 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Stack On

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:46 | 4650403 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Oh and sorry H73.

May I use it again?

Seems appropriate at times. (all the time)

I think in generations rather than quarters.

 

Stack On

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:02 | 4650417 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

All good, I use your Stack On from time to time as well.

I've got a couple silver ounces I'm willing to bet on the price of BTC on New Year's Day... Any offers?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:49 | 4650450 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I've used to tell fonestar

.000001

Now which New Years Day did you have in mind?

 

Aside

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnepPZChA5U

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:03 | 4650466 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I am humbled.

 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:50 | 4650041 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Sounds familiar, except for the boating accident.

In my case, one of the saddle bags on my bicycle split a seam and a bunch of stuff fell out.

Could be anywhere within about 30 miles of trails. I keep riding 'em, but no luck spotting anything.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:16 | 4649776 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

We are in the same boat Fonz. I actually started a biz buying and selling sterling and have lowered my cost average to less than zero.

That wasn't easy to do since I bought 800 oz when it was in the high 20's, 30's and 40's. The worst part was I opened my mouth to other people about what a great investment it was.LOL

Even after years of getting beaten down, I still buy more every day and I still believe it is going to pay off some day.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:21 | 4649795 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"The worst part was I opened my mouth to other people about what a great investment it was."

man...no shit...I hear that.

Good for you man with the biz. I think that was a real sharp move.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:44 | 4649871 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Thanks, Fonz, It has worked out better than I could have dreamed. I'm sitting on a boat load of this stuff. Dealing with these antiques will make you realize how undervalued silver is today. Sterling was mostly owned by the wealthy for hundreds of years. I often find coffee spoons that may only weigh a half ounce but are engraved with a woman's name and the date when the gift was given. 

These pieces are only worth about $8 at today's silver price. Would you buy your wife an $8 gift and send it to the engraver to be personalized???

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:58 | 4649899 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

you know, one of my buddies...he is into antique soda machines. I have no idea how he got into them. But he is a maniac with them now. So much so that by going online he has developed a network of friends all over the country. He tells me the craziest stories. He found some old sunkist machine online a year ago. Some lady spotted it in the woods in wisconsin. She posted a pic of it. He found her email and asked her if she could verify if  it was still there. She walked back out into the woods and did, and emailed him. So one of the people he met online who lived around there went and picked it up, drove it to Ohio or something. Someone else grabbed it from there and drove it to Pennsylvania where he drove and met them to get it. He does the same for them. It's crazy. He now fixes them up and sells them on ebay. I have no idea why I bring this up. But it's interesting to see people get into something, and basically make it their life, and how the internet brings people together when it's not tearing them apart (cue gay music).

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:14 | 4649942 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

That's cool. I think that's just the new economy. People are turning their interests into a way to make a living. It also easy to become an expert at something if you have the desire and have time. If your excellent at something, riches can be arranged. I stole that from Paul Newman in Color of Money

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:20 | 4649794 epicurious
epicurious's picture

Don't sweat silver's gyrations it's the nature of the beast.  Embrace it as long as you need not depend on it to be there tomorrow with a sizeable return.. I've been in and out of silver so many years since the 60's you just need to know that volitility is part and parcel of the game.  In the long run you won't regret just letting it sit and gather dust.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:49 | 4650039 Seer
Seer's picture

I don't see PMs so much as investing as  I see them as security.

And, what else to do with extra cash if you don't know what to do?  Coke and hookers?

No, you didn't screw up.  You just didn't have any other more attractive venues.

We're still in the early innings.  As this game progresses I do NOT see complex currencies sprouting when there's nothing but contraction from here on out...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:34 | 4650323 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The dollar is still your master.

Break free.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:31 | 4649636 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Agreed.  I think silver works better on a local scale.  When the SHTF that will matter.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:35 | 4649648 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Speechless. You guys are awesome! I don't feel like some retarded miner in bum<>fucked Egypt.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:39 | 4649659 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

as long as we are shooting the shit tonight, check this out.  I am in my living room earlier, my daughter is playing and in the background the T.V is on and it's wheel of fortune (because that's just how I roll on a Friday night) with college students as contestants.

So they are solving a puzzle for "character" and it's a lot of  letters so it's taking a bit. As time goes on this kid starts getting on a roll and you can see that the answer is going to be "mythological hero Achilles". At a certain point the kid should have solved the puzzle instead of risking losing a turn, but he keeps going. He even lands on a million dollar prize along the way. So anyway he gets ALL the letters and there it is....mythological hero Achilles....so he says he will solve the puzzle and he says "mythological hero ashelles". He butchered the pronunciation. The host guy Sajak just stood there in awe, then the girl who was next just said the name correctly and the kid just stood there in shock and Sajak fumbled a few lines and the whole thing went to commercial horribly awkward. 

 

That was our education system summed up in 2 minutes.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:51 | 4649706 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   If you like your ebonics, "you can keep your ebonics" . 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:53 | 4649714 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Yen you see my Miley Cyrus joke? She hurt her back. She is out on twerkers comp.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:02 | 4649918 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hey Fonz I'm a raycyst and proud of it!  When we bury the Banksters, their suit colors won't matter!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:42 | 4650021 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I feal for the kidd, egyptian history is so difficulte

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:52 | 4650048 Seer
Seer's picture

"I've got a gub!"

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:06 | 4649749 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Silver won't really work that well in the future.  It will be too valuable, as it is far rarer than advertised.  You will run into the same problems you have transacting in gold.

But who cares!?  You'll be rich!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:16 | 4649948 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Wake me up when I'm rich, will you please T?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:52 | 4650045 I_rikey_lice
I_rikey_lice's picture

Silver is a shit investment just like Bitcoin. Max Keiser strikes again. Crash JPM, buy Btc and silver lol.....

Where are the fucking silver shortages that were promised years ago???

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:54 | 4650052 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If you have open eyes and an open mind, you are a rich man.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 13:16 | 4651300 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

BigJim       Wake me up when I'm rich, will you please T?

---

Why, so you can be demonized? You're rich. That isn't fair. You must be corrupt. etc.

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 04:40 | 4656089 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

can I use palladium as an anti-biotic like silver? Given the cost difference it better be a 'yes' and a lot more effective. Otherwise I'll stick with silver atoms, thanks.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:11 | 4649580 conork
conork's picture

Digital currencies being created out of thin air, constantly replicating each other, basically a form of fiat.

Physical is where its at

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:05 | 4650366 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Didn't you read the article? Miners complain about tool and energy cost. It takes real stuff to hash blocks. I could also say, making gold is for free because it's made from dirt, but I don't say that.

 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:18 | 4649582 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

ATI (subsidiary of AMD) and their Radeon HD video cards, NOT NVidia (which don't mine well at all).

The demand and prices for Radeon video cards is strong as they are the best at Litecoin mining.

Bitcoin mining requires ASIC solutions, Litecoin uses the Graphical Processing Unit (GPU) of a video card.

Bitcoin miners are the deep mining shaft with heavy machinery, Litecoin miners are the panners.

The crash in the value of Bitcoin has hurt the price of Litecoin in tandem; from $21 to $11.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:26 | 4649619 seek
seek's picture

Came to say the same thing. Nvidia isn't very good for scrypt-based currencies compared to AMD. In December the premiums on AMD cards were ridiculous, I think newegg was charging something like $200 over retail for even old boards.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 22:58 | 4650062 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Digital currencies are not something I'm particularly interested in.

The only reason I'm interested in video cards is for 3D rendering,

nVidia wins hands-down in that arena.

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:43 | 4650401 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Nvidia's do very well for 3D rendering and straight gaming.

I'm glad there are at least two companies to compete (AMD/nVidia), there used to be 4 or 5.

Intel integrated graphics work well for office/browsing stuff but fall flat on their face for gaming or rendering.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:16 | 4649591 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    Ebbie I have Radeon cards in my multi monitor setup, with AMD chips, and they run awesome.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:25 | 4649612 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Those Radeons are good stuff; run Battlefield 4 at a high FPS, and Photoshop is lightning fast.

I bought a couple and mine Litecoin as a curiosity; it was an excuse to upgrade my computer.

I got Battlefield 4 for free, and didn't have to turn the heat on the whole month of March.

They run between 140-160 degrees Fahrenheit; be turning them off soon or they'll tax the A.C.

Multi-monitors are great, it's like getting a new double-sized desk.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:40 | 4649664 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   You don't get those stupid NVIDEA upgrade reminders all the time, and amd 10 and above processors are really good.

  Fuck Intell and the i-7 it rode in on!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:46 | 4649693 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Are any of these mining rigs being sold at a loss useful as a gaming PC?  If not, any stores you can recommend for plug and play system?  I'm not skilled enough to build my own and make sure it all works together well.  DayZ actually has me interested enough to consider one so I guess running that above 60FPS is my baseline. 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:11 | 4649758 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Bitcoin mining rigs aren't really worth using as a desktop/gaming system.

For 60 FPS you're going to want some new hardware, but you'd be surprised how well some older cards and systems run newer games.

For DayZ check here (you can input/test your current system): 

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/CYRI/Requirements/dayz/11404

Newegg.com has good prices and customer service, this one would do it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220568

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 21:12 | 4649759 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Thanks for the advice!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!