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Guest Post: Real Americans Are Ready To Snap
Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt-Market blog,
Despite popular belief, every culture of every nation draws a line in the sand against government tyranny. The problem is, many draw this line so close to total defeat that it rarely matters. For the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto, for instance, it wasn't until the Germans had already herded millions onto railroad cars destined for death camps and cornered the rest into dilapidated central housing that the ZOB resistance was formed, only to be wiped out a month later. Perhaps hindsight is 20/20, but clearly too many freedom movements throughout history waited too long to respond to the trespasses of oligarchs.
The Founding Fathers frequently struggled with the proper measure of resistance. Many colonials wanted vengeance on the British after the Boston Massacre in March of 1770, but patriots knew that the timing was not right. The battle to rally citizens to the cause and to educate the masses as much as possible on the facts took precedence over the desire to enter conflict. The Founders endured five more years of British government criminality until nearly 80 farmers and militiamen stood outnumbered on Lexington Green on April 19th, 1775 to confront an army of 700 British regulars on a mission to capture rebel leaders and destroy weapons caches. No one knew at the time that the war would be sparked that day, but everyone knew that a fight was inevitable and near.
I believe the same feeling hangs in the air of modern America for REAL Americans, and by “real”, I mean those who actually support and defend the constitutional values and principles that lay at the foundation of our society. We sense that something is coming; a great change, or an unstoppable reckoning.
The question of when to strike back is pivotal to any resistance movement. Turn to violence too soon or without proper cause in the eyes of the public, and the rebellion may lose the moral high ground and the support of the populace. Wait too long, and the totalitarian hordes may be too far entrenched, forcing the rebellion to fight from a position of strategic weakness.
There are those who might argue that America crossed the “red line” long ago and now our society is simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while arguing over futile semantics. In certain respects, I can see their point. The U.S. political system is utterly lost. Anyone who still has faith in the Left/Right paradigm after two terms of George W. Bush and nearly two terms of Barack Obama is either insane, or mentally challenged. It should be obvious to Republicans and Democrats alike that our government does NOT represent the average man, and our election process is a sham. Democrats in particular should be equally furious and ashamed as the candidate they blindly worshiped to the point of cultism has now forsaken every value they thought he represented.
The legal apparatus of the U.S. is also beyond repair. Those in the mainstream who argue that grievances with government should be addressed by the courts instead of independent action obviously have not considered that the courts continuously uphold and defend legislation like that contained within the NDAA, which allows for rendition, torture, and even assassination of American citizens without trial or due process. And where are the prosecutions of Constitutional violations by the NSA? Why aren't men like James Clapper in prison for lying directly to Congress. Why hasn't Eric Holder been slapped in irons for his involvement with “Fast and Furious”? And what about the international financiers who back these politicians? How many of them have been prosecuted for their involvement in the toxic derivatives scandals that are destroying our economy to this day?
No, we lost the courts a long time ago. They will do nothing to save this country. But is the fight already over? I think not.
Nihilism is tempting for those people who are lazy and frightened and looking for a philosophical excuse to run away from making a stand. Claiming the fight is lost before it has truly begun is a longstanding tradition amongst millions upon millions of cowards through history. Every freedom fighter in every great revolution for liberty has heard the same arguments that we hear today – “It's too late to change things. The enemy is too powerful and you will be crushed. The nail that sticks up will eventually be hammered down. Your movement is a minority on the fringe and no one will support you. None of you have the guts to really follow through...”
While there is certainly much to despair in the state of our nation, I find the notion that Americans will do nothing in response misplaced and ignorant. From what I have observed, it is not a question of “if” citizens snap, but when.
With objective eyes one could easily see it during the last attempts by the federal government to pass anti-gun legislation that would have led to confiscation. Pro-2nd Amendment protests erupted all over the country (though the MSM mostly ignored them) with participants far outnumbering the miniscule groups in support of gun control. The sentiment amongst millions of gun owners and millions of Liberty Movement proponents was that we were not going to allow government enforcement of new gun laws. Period. If that meant we had to start using those same guns to put an end to government, then that was exactly what we would do. The feds, of course, buckled.
Rather than take the more dangerous and unifying direct route of federal legislation, gun grabbers have shifted strategies, isolating and targeting specific states they believe will be more pliable and easier to conquer. Connecticut and parts of New York, however, have shown that even people in the most socialist of states have no intention of complying with gun registration or confiscation. In Connecticut, only 38,000 high capacity magazines were registered according to the new gun laws, while approximately 2.4 million purchased through retail remain unaccounted for. Only 50,000 “assault weapons” were registered, while at least 300,000 remain unaccounted for. A sizable number of police are also refusing to enforce registration measures (some out of constitutional loyalty, and some out of a desire for self preservation), causing the state of Connecticut to back off of its hard line rhetoric.
I can say with full confidence that the conditions within Connecticut alone would lead to an open shooting war if officials actually attempt to enforce registration and confiscation. If Safe Act-style legislation or executive orders are ever enforced at a national level, I have no doubt revolution would follow.
The latest hotbed I have witnessed is the Bureau of Land Management attack on a cattle farmer in Clark County, Nevada owned by Cliven Bundy. The BLM has so far stolen over 500 cattle from Bundy on the grounds that the federal government owns the land his family has been using for grazing pasture for generations. The confiscation was implemented under the auspices of “protection for endangered species”. The species in this instance being a desert tortoise.
The methods used by the BLM resemble a militant raid, with hundreds of agents, helicopters, and even snipers at their disposal. Adding insult to injury and making the issue a national concern, the feds have also staged “First Amendment Zones” miles away from their activities to keep protestors away.
This may seem like a minor event, a tiff over cattle grazing or possibly property rights, but there is much more going on here.
Tyranny leaves lasting scars, and each tyrannical act results in an accumulation of wounds on the public psyche that do not heal. In the end, a single event can become a trigger to unleash a torrent of rage pent up in a population for years or decades. The fight for Cliven Bundy's farm has the potential to become such a trigger.
So far, federal abuses have been primarily toward Bundy's cattle, with confiscation ongoing and suspicions that a number of the cows are being killed. Here, protestors try to stop a truck from leaving the area which they believed might be carrying dead animals. Agents respond with dogs and tasers.
However, I believe that if this situation escalates into a Waco or Ruby Ridge brand of event, not only Liberty Movement residents of Nevada, but Liberty Movement champions across the nation will indeed finally throw down the gauntlet. What does that mean? It means they are going to start shooting. Opposing groups can debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but the reality is that one way or another, it is going to happen.
Discussions within the movement are far from apathetic. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes are watching every move of the BLM right now, and they should be taking this fact very seriously.
The naysayers will claim that we don't have the will to take action. They are welcome to think whatever they like. But mark my words, Constitutionally minded Americans are not going to stand by and watch another massacre, nor a loss of gun rights, nor will we be entertaining violations of our freedoms for much longer. This society is on the edge of something. It's kinetic, or electric. It is not yet quite visible but it is there, reverberating in the atmosphere. My suggestion to our federal bureaucracy would be to do what they did during the gun debate, and quickly back away.
Of course, we all know they won't.
Do the elites want to stir up insurgency in order to give pretense for a larger crackdown? They very well might. But it is transparent in the way they try to mitigate dissent and offer placation that they do not want a rebellion larger than they can manage. I think it is far too late for that. I think they've pissed off too many people, instead of just enough people. I think that though most pretend-Americans will do nothing but watch in horror or hide in their hovels, the size of resistance to the tides of despotism is growing far beyond common realizations. And, when this resistance erupts, it will shock even those who fully expect it.
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Re: Nevada..
Seems the gummint's response is way over the top here... jeezus...... where is the fossil Reid who's supposed to represent these people....
On the long-end of the con.
what? how many real americans are there ? never enough to make the blood flow - and that's what it would take to turn it around.
If this rancher was gay and black, this never would have happened.
Or illegal.
The crushing non-recovery (depression) is causing people to choose sides.
There seems to be no shortage of guys willing to be goons for .gov, but I suppose it pays a salary.
It's going to get messy when the militia shows up to one of these .gov events and leaves a pile of uniformed bodies.
Except the "uniformed bodies" will be the ones of the militia.
I'm not cheering for either outcome, I'd prefer common sense and following the Constitution.
If, however, TPTB ever stir up the hornets nest enough it will be more like the L.A. riots versus a controlled police action.
Once you get enough people acting as a mob the law won't have enough vehicles, officers, or bullets to stop the crush of humanity.
It would be great if our leaders would follow and defend the constitution.
The dynamics of action in the boonies is different. In fact, the dynamics of action in different kinds of boonies varies quite a bit.
A jungle is a bit more like a city, with endless places to hide.
This place seems fairly wide open. Not nearly as good for the home team (team liberty). I wonder how many armed drones they have at Nellis. We may find out.
While I agree with your premise, I become less depressed knowing that the Fed is working hard every day to destroy the purchasing power of the US dollar. This is good because when the paper the thugs get paid in is worthless, their enthusiasm for carrying out tyranny in the face of deadly opposition will decline.
No, it's bad because they are not poor & those who are poor will seek to join them to be not-poor.
Wishful thinking.
The optics on going after a genuine American cowboy are bad, real bad.
How the hell did this happen:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=nevada+federal+land+map&qpvt=nevada+federal+land+map&FORM=IGRE#view=detail&id=6E79CA6DD66796F9498C91E987CA7859ACB11207&selectedIndex=11
I will not comply
This is not America https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUliUWMrMZA
That's becaue God is an American https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlwAkiBAotM
the nin version is better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-d2T29dNMY
Better? When the music is equally, eloquently sumptuous, how can one be better than another?
from my point of view
Do the elites want to stir up insurgency in order to give pretense for a larger crackdown?
Yep. We discussed this just a few days ago -- crazy as it sounds, I think we should let them keep stirring and not respond, so they do something so over the top they lose all credibility in the eyes of the public at large.
Don't forget there's pleny of plants on both the left and right that urge violent solutions just so the government can justify intervention. In another 30 years we'll be hearing about who was on the FBI payroll today, just like today we're hearing about who was on the payroll in the 70s.
By jinx or whatever, I've found myself smack in the middle of the outbreak
of three civil wars in my life.Each time there was a certain frission it the air just before
they errupted.I'm feeling it now, have been for a while,and its growing.
Your call for restraint,whilst laudible,is probably wasted.
Winston,
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Sue for peace, prepare for war.
Which civil wars, if I may ask? I've not been bashful about making it known that I went to watch the near riot in Albuquerque a couple of weeks ago, and the atmosphere was surreal.
I agree. A cop getting a little too aggressive with one of these guys, when he is surrounded by his buddies, could get messy. If I was the fed gov, I would be trying to incite one of those guys to pull the trigger on a cop. It will get endless pro gov news coverage, at least at the places most Americans get their news, anyway. Or, one of the cops shoots, blames the protestors, just gives them another thing to use as a reason to disarm us, forcefully, and at least half the country would cheer them on.
Doesn't matter. You can sit non-resisting and you'll get the same screams of STOP RESISTING and a free hickory shampoo and pepperspray spa-facial.
I agree that the stars are aligning. The financial markets are ready to blow. Society is like a spring ready to snap. One thing I can say to the federal government (and I quote): no more "freebies." No more free Wacos, no more free Ruby Ridges, no more free Sandy Hooks. The next caper will not be free.
+1000
A number of cops get a thrill out of beating people up. The US has become a police state.
It sounds like you need some hickory shampoo.
Make sure to tell everyone it's organic - you can't oversell this.
There’s little question that Americans are under the heel of increasing tyranny; and I agree that it’s not a question of if-they-will-respond but when.
The tyranny, of course, stems from the money men -- families that have completely commandeered the financial apparatus of the United States so extensively that they control presidents, the congress, the mainstream media and other critical areas of our society.
These men are the owners and controllers of the big banks and the Federal Reserve which now leverages the IMF, World Bank and central banks around the world. In their control of foreign policy, these men have made it their priority to expand the American Empire through wars on sovereign countries, killing the innocent and capturing the resources.
The fact that these financial oligarchs are so closely connected to Israel in her Middle Eastern expansions and the fact that most of these ruling families are Jewish makes it counterproductive to use the 75-year-old example of the Jews in Warsaw as if it parallels America's current experience.
The rising attention of the colonists to their English tyranny problem with its denial of self-determination is comparable to what’s happening with Americans today.
I will call them out for you...the JOOS!
Hey just for fun, here's a list of all the thugs terrorizing Americans at the cattle ranch:
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/info/state_directory/southern_nevada.html
Hope their familiies are already in protective custody if another Ruby Ridge goes down.
Just saying....lots of shitgums around.
Previous Presidents have had their Kent States, Wacos and Ruby Ridges. Obama wants his own "law and order" type of incident to add to his legacy.
Well they tell us to all take a break from technology once in a while and here's a good time, when you go shopping. None other than Google is now partnering with Axciom to send purchasing information to them and a couple other data sellers. Facebook has been doing it so for me, off goes the phone for some nice minutes of cellular silence so I can enjoy shopping. The proof in the pudding here is the ROI that retailers make with this service from Google and Facebook and if not, the marketers at both places will be even busier trying to create more algorithms to suck more in.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/04/google-partnering-with-data-broke...
This is yet one more straw on the camel's back make one want to snap. Besides these are companies using over seas tax shelters so are they paying US taxes on this money..inquiring minds could ask that.
This goes back to what I said a short while back that with all this insane marketing and data selling people can't tell the difference anymore on what's real world value and what's virtual world values. Get this Google is doing a study to find out "how people work"..amazing after so many years of hiring humans is it not?
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/03/virtual-worlds-real-world-we-have...
Well one thing I did yesterday and I felt darn good about it with shutting down all the reporters with their doctor Medicare claim data that was pumped up over and over and over. I said a year ago when Dow Jones sued HHS to get data, it would be a media event, not a consumer event so see the even the news media was eating their own poison and today, all was quiet with that nonsense as just like I said, it's was for the media, not the consumer and the numerous articles making MDs look like villains was ridiculous. So yeah follow along with this type of stuff, yeah it's pushing it and consumers won as they didn't soak into the media game of just having to jump all over this data like the media told them they should. I won...and so did the doctors as there's a few bad eggs but most are not. For those CMS has a new Cray computer tool that can find patterns and search out the bad guys and go after them.It's pretty cool.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/11/cray-computers-making-big-comebac...
But what did we get to read, too many articles about those stealing doctors and this data was going to show us...didn't work. Actually when the announcement was made by the LA Times they had all kinds of disclaimers and then another article came out and said "gee the data was pretty normal" no big thieves found:) But again with the play with the media boy you were just getting primed to see nothing but packs of thieves.
In reality here I have talked to several doctors and we might challenge this a little as they want to send me claim information on what United Healthcare pays them, it's less than Medicare, and that's bad as everything thinks doctors make up the pay with retail insurers, not any more. That's the real world and its sad. With insurers and complex contracts doctors sign, in many areas they are getting paid less than Medicare and this all occurred during the last few years, so who do you think the thieves are here, just some more capitalism math models at work.
So yes we might be getting close to breaking as our bodies hurt being shoved in an out of analytic data bases where they don't really belong and we keep denied access to something, all determined by analytics with flawed data..that's enough to make anyone break I think as you start thinking your are nuts as it's all getting modeled this way for profit. Modeling for Inequality as this former Wall Street Quant says..she's the best. She's writing a new book named after her lecture series "Weapons of Math Destruction"...and that about says it.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/04/modeling-for-inequality-with.html
WTF does this have to do with this article?
"This is yet... more straw on the camel's back (that) makes one want to snap," you know, like "when you go shopping, none other than Google is now partnering with Axciom to send purchasing information to them and a couple other data sellers."
Kinda riles me.
In case anyone is paying attention to Bundy Ranch. They cut the cell phone towers off and are rolling in the DHS right now. They are also tracking the Ham radio signals also and trying to triangulate to locate the operators (assuming to remove them from the scene) on Bundy Ranch standoff if they try to communicate out. You know what comes next if they get a complete comm blackout and can surround the place keeping the militias from piling in.
Any idea if they're operating on HF at all? A lot harder to DF and the signals would spread much further than the .gov could control.
B1tco1n haz tha invulnerables! They should be hiring security using bitcoin. It's not like it needs a grid or anything. They can feed bitcoins to their cattle too!
The latest on this is that Harry Reid is making a land grab on behalf of a Chinese company who wants to build a solar plant on the public land. More here: http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-...
Good article.
ABC, NBC, and NPR; not a single link about the standoff that involves hundreds, and by some reports thousands of armed federal employees and private citizens. CBS and CNN had a link down the page buried among other innocuous story titles. Only Fox news is carrying this story full width and top of the page.
I forgot to mention that Yahoo news has NO links about this story either. Purposeful censorship.
Ignoring important stories about independence and freedom is their tactic in silencing the dissent.
Wow, I don't know where I've been but I just found out for first time that CHELSEA CLINTON is an NBC CORRESPONDENT!!! Totally disgusted. And where the hell did her and her hubby get $10 million to buy their Manhattan "Condo"? Both haven't been in the work world that long (if we can even call being an NBC Correspondent these days 'Work'.
Where? Take your pick…
Hillary Clinton…
Average Net Worth: $13,130,504*
http://www.davemanuel.com/pols/hillary-clinton/
Bill Clinton…
According to Hillary Clinton's filing that covers the 2011 calendar year, former President Bill Clinton gave 54 speeches last year.
Bill Clinton made a total of $13,434,000 for his 54 speeches in 2011, which works out to an average of $248,777.78 per speech. Here is a list of the speeches that Clinton gave last year, as well as the amounts that he made:
http://www.davemanuel.com/how-much-money-does-bill-clinton-make-from-giving-speeches-158/
Chelcea’s father-in-law, Ed Mezvinsky… intertwined politically with the Clintons for years, in March 2001, was indicted and later pleaded guilty to 31 of 69 charges of bank fraud, mail fraud, and wire fraud. After serving fives years in prison he was released April 2008. He embezzled more than $10 million from people via both a Ponzi scheme and the notorious Nigerian e-mail scams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mezvinsky
Marc Mezvinsky, Chelsea’s husband…
an investment banker who has a net worth of $15 million. Marc Mezvinsky earned his net worth as an investment banker at the New York based firmed Goldman Sachs. Marc Mezvinsky has also worked at the New York hedge fund 3G Capital and has plans to form his own hedge fund company with two partners
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/wall-street/marc-mezvinsky-net-worth
Oh My!!! I just checked in to see what is on ZH and found a full fledged war raging.
While I have no idea what "real americans" think....from what I've seen personally, it appears that the ability to separate personal grievances against the state for simply not getting to do what one wants, too often gets merged/mixed/confused with the more elusive...but more dangerous...problem of true loss of freedom.
I come from a rural background, and I've seen folks get hopping mad because the "Fed's" enforced an environmental law....but then watch the same folks turn a blind eye when the Federal Government oversteps bounds with regard to spying/giving police and military far too much power to operate without oversight/ ...and a host of other serious inroads against democracy.
I have seen fellow NRA members go ballistic over any piece of gun legislation...but remain silent when severe limits on right to assembly and free speech are threatened.
Not sure what the answer is....but I keep hoping that someone..(or someones)...will develop the voice and political presence to draw the distinctions in ways folks will recognize and respond to.
Otherwise, I fear the groups will continue to hammer away at each other, while the "deep state" continues along it's merry way.
The thought crossed my mind what is the point of having guns and ammo up the ass if the people have total subservience to authority. I see it time and again in videos where the US police act abhorrently and people just stand by and watch.
This would not happen in Europe, people would act. America is strange; it is full of bellicose but no substance, talk tough but no action. I believe if the government came for the guns most would be handed over. Why is it that not one person has taken a stand since Waco. If the US is so rebellious why aren’t we seeing weekly battles between the public and the FEDS?
It is all BS.
Hold that thought, dude.
Wherever your from you do not understand America or her people. Did you read the article above regarding the Boston Massacre?
I have to admit... I don't know which of you is more correct.
-----
On the one hand, conversations I have had with people in Europe convince me that Europeans accept authoritarianism as utterly unquestionable and the natural and only viable state of human beings.
On the other hand, I am absolutely not convinced that a sufficient number of so-called Americans of today bear much resemblance to Americans in the late 1700s.
On the additional hand, there is no question that sometimes people get pushed, and pushed, and pushed, and pushed... and then get pushed so much further beyond the pale without much reaction... that eventually some event occurs that releases the enormous pent-up fury.
OTOH, that won't help if the dramatic reaction is not sustained for a long time, and all compromise firmly refused.
Here's hoping we all get a definitive answer.
Good point. However III% of us do and that is the only number that matters. If some dudes in caves can evade our "modern militray" for over 10 years just think what 9 million of US can do to protect the ones we love!
That 3% really needs to take action to make a revolution. It starts when aggression starts.
Ann, I've always wanted to meet someone with four hands.
Because when this shit blows, it will be very ugly. It won't be a mob chasing a few cops down in the streets to give them a severe beating. It will be hot lead flying and supply chains breaking.
"This would not happen in Europe people would act? "
What? Hitlers rise to power wasn't an acquiescence to authority? Many stood by and let it happen. It takes an incredible amount courage to fight when you have so much to lose. Your families life and yours. However, when all has been stripped from you and nothing is left, then courage is unnecessary. A person with nothing left to lose has no reason to refrain from action and is the most dangerous to encounter. We are slowly seeing this happen in this country and the future will be more violent. So if you thirst for blood here wil-e, I expect you won't be disappointed.
Miffed;-)
I forgot this one...Monsanto putting a 75 year old farmer out of business, court rules the farmer did not abide completely by the intellectual property of the seeds he planted and used some the following year..nuts..and this was the first case I heard of where IP properties were enforced like this with planting crops..big deal. So if this is so rigid we all might starve one day I guess.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/02/big-data-in-farming-back-to-data....
Brandon says 'I find the notion that Americans will do nothing in response misplaced and ignorant'.
It's not that they aren't going to do anything....It's just they will misplace their anger and direct it at convenient scapegoats: another race, women, the poor, immigrants, etc.
Will they surround NBC or CNN and demand truthful journalism? No.
Will they surround 5 largest bank headquarters and demand accountability and arrests? No.
Will they surround the any of the many Neo-Con enclaves such as the American Enterprise Institute, CATO, or CFR and demand that these people stop promoting propaganda? No.
Will they surround the FED Reserve? No.
Will they begin rioting? Yes.
Will they tear up city centers? Yes.
Will they begin attacking certain "groups" they don't like: Yes.
Anyone that does any real organizing will probably be shot by the Authorities.
headless blogger, spot on
Will they still vote, YES.
Will they still believe they have right and might on their side, YES.
Will they stand by whilst their neighbour of 30 years gets carted away for unspecified 'Un-American Activities", YES.
Will they cheer at the Presidents international grandstanding that puts up the price of groceries, YES.
Are people stupid, YES.
Does the average American have to do anything to make it stop, NO.
Do you have to move your lardy ass off the sofa to make a difference, NO.
All you have to do is say NO (and that is one less letter than YES!)
Just say NO.
#JustStop
You are right about the anger being misdirected, headless, but it’s being misdirected toward white men, not “blacks, Jews, Mexicans, Indians and women.
Let’s face it. The identification of groups as victims is coming from Eric Holder and Obama attacking whites; LaRaza and other Hispanic activists groups are attacking whites because the latter are upset that illegal immigrants are crossing the border and taking their jobs and their culture and costing them millions in taxes; the Democrat politicians and the media are once again reviving the “war on women” – salaries, sexism, equal status, abortion restrictions -- conducted primarily against white males for the purpose of getting as many women to vote Democrat in the coming off-year elections.
Isn’t it time for the white men to get angry?
HOLDER: Whites Can't Be Victims of Racial Injustice Because They Haven't Suffered Enough |BREITBART | 2 Mar 2011 :
...As reported and applauded by Politico, Holder announced... he was fed up with listening to whining whites who claim the justice department deliberately blocks investigations of black on white racism. Predictably, the Establishment media sides with Holder.
“Think about that," Holder said. "When you compare what people endured in the South in the 60s to try to get the right to vote for African Americans, to compare what people subjected to that with what happened in Philadelphia, which was inappropriate .. .to describe it in those terms I think does a great disservice to people who put their lives on the line for my people," said Holder, who is black.
Holder noted that his late sister-in-law, Vivian Malone Jones, helped integrate the University of Alabama.
"To compare that kind of courage, that kind of action, to say some Black Panther incident is of greater concern to us, historically, I think just flies in the face of history," Holder said with evident exasperation.”
So the obvious takeaway from this is that some racism is worse than others. Some racist injustice is worthy of prosecution, other racism is not. Apparently, whites simply haven’t suffered enough. They don’t deserve legal protection. So, any injustices committed against white people should be swept under the rug. It’s not worth Eric Holder’s time.
One might be shocked by the statements. One might even wonder why the media chooses not to attack Holder for his patently racist statements. After all, were a white man to suggest this, his career would be over in a hail of media machine-gun fire. Reporters would fall over themselves to attack him, and his family would be ruthlessly attacked in the community. His kids would have to stay home from school (assuming their teachers weren't on strike, anyway), and he’d get hate mail and death threats for decades.
But the Establishment Media's lack of moral indignation isn’t surprising. In America, it’s blasphemous to even suggest that whites could be victims of racial injustice.
Whites are the permanent “oppressors” in the mainstream media narrative, while all other races are the permanent “victims.” In fact, "white" and "oppressor" are essentially synonymous -- meaning: whites are the bad guys. All whites have been lumped together and typecast in a bad reality TV show. Because whites as a group do not have clean hands, therefore, they are denied the right of seeking justice.
If that isn't stereotyping, I don't know what is.
The larger issue, of course, is that "whites as racists" constitutes the fundamental lens through which Holder views issues in America. During the healthcare debate, Holder likened opposition of Obamacare to opposition to civil rights. Not civil rights in the sense that, "all Americans share civil rights," mind you, but "Civil Rights" as in the struggle for black legal equality in America during the 40's-60's. Translation: those who oppose Obamacare are racists. Such language is naked race-baiting and scapegoating. But Holder doesn't care. Whites are the bad guy bogeymen, trotted out when it gets tough to pass legislation. And his recent comments reveal his paradigm: white Americans are generally racist and any time they oppose any Obama policy or "injustice" at the hands of a racist group, they're either being racists or they're simply not entitled to equal protection because they haven't suffered as much as other groups.
...He has a score to settle, and by he figures whites have a lot more suffering to endure before they have a right to expect justice from the “Justice Department.”...
The Establishment media’s silence regarding his racist statements demonstrates agreement and approval. Such hypocrisy. Such shame. Such racism.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2011/03/02/HOLDER--Whites-Can---t-Be-Victims-of-Racial-Injustice-Because-They-Haven---t-Suffered-EnoughDid Eric Holder Just Call Louie Gohmert a Racist? | TPNN | April 9, 2014
April 9, 2014 By Matthew Burke
Eric Holder, the first sitting attorney general in U.S. history to be held in contempt of Congress (with 17 Democrats voting against Holder while 108 abstained), pulled out his heavily dog-eared race card today against Congressman Louie Gohmert (SEE VIDEO ).
Yesterday at a congressional hearing, Holder snapped at Gohmert, pointing his finger at the Congressman from Texas while disrespectfully saying, “You don’t want to go there, buddy!“
Holder, speaking at an event held by race-hustling MSNBC host and former FBI mob informant, Al Sharpton, told an audience that he has been a victim of “unprecedented, unwarranted, ugly and divisive adversity.” ...http://www.tpnn.com/2014/04/09/did-eric-holder-just-call-louie-gohmert-a-racist/
During a recent interview with the University of Virginia’s Miller Center, Holder doubled down on his accusation of America as a nation of racist cowards. When asked if he would take back his 2009 statement, Holder said that he would not.
http://www.tpnn.com/2014/01/25/eric-holder-america-is-still-a-nation-of-racist-cowards/
Whites males in America, the ultimate privileged class, declaring they need racial protection from the darkies is pretty much like rapists forming a club to protect their safety, rights & dignity from people they raped.
My interpretation of your answer is that present day white people are racists; that’s pretty much what the attorney general of the United States says.
His accusations come because he was criticized for the way he was doing his job; for him to react in this way is the perfect example of a racist.
Obama and Eric Holder have been given an historic opportunity to pull together Americans as a unified people and, for one thing, to provide a new level of respect among all races. Instead, they chose a route of selfishness, putting themselves above the position to which Americans had elevated them.
In short, for the president, black is more important than being president, and for Holder, black and his ego are more imporant than justice or the country.
Your intepretation is nonsense.
Whites demanding a sustained privilege over others is racist.
NOT demanding this is NOT racist. I'm addressing the racist demand itself, not all white people in North America.
HaHa. They call me a racist because I don't like the President of the USA....because his political views and convictions go against my beliefs...WOW! Glad the truth is out MDB!
Truth is all presidents are puppets. Your next President will be...
In one of the neighborhoods I spent quite a bit of my youth growing up in it was blacks killing blacks and Mexicans killing Mexicans with a small amount of blacks and Mexicans killing each other mixed in. Not sure who were the racists in all that but all the blood I ever saw was about the same color of dark red.
The last people that did all the things right that you just listed - was Occupy Wall Street. Zerohedge commenters largely, in error, dismissed them as commies and libtards.
Wrong.
They might have been dismissed as commies and libtards, only because there was no clear leader and no unified message or position. Too many people with disparate agendas.
which is the Libertarian thing to do: no single leader to take out, all independant.
A unified message is a failure for everything is under attack. An evolving counter-attack must not be unified because the damage is not unified being done upon us all. A single leader can be co-opted. No single leader must ever exist.
The problem is not too many disparate agendas: all are for freedom & restoration of law, recovery of stolen property.
The problem is too few ears willing to listen to all the real crimes that did happen.
Occupy was largely made up of idiots protesting the out of control financial system but without any comprehension that the Federal Government they mostly support was a root cause and not a solution
People are idiots. THis so called "Tiff" in Nevada is about a man breaking the law. The BLM is doing what is mandated. Protecting the interests of the United States. This land has been over grazed and the "old west" was gone 100 years ago. Cattle are raised in Iowa and Nebraska folks off corn grown from fertilizers made from natural gas. This is like an old worn out country western song. Get a life.
Wow. Kudos for the most ignorant post of the day.
Youre wrong.
This isn't ultimately about just the BLM or a possible back room deal by Reid or one of his relatives.
This is about Agenda 21.
This is about the efforts to take Americans off the land, so that they are no longer self sufficient. This is about the effort - on many fronts - to make Americans dependent and easily controlled.
And before you scoff . . . do some research on these subjects and evaluate the evidence. Its readily available.
you don't have a clue what agenda 21 is about, do you?
Apparently guest posts come complete with guest trolls. Plenty of them on this story
well hard assets isn't exactly a guest by my definition.
we've both been on ZH > 4 years.
by my definition, he needs to lay off the paranoid delusions and inject some real happiness into his existence.
Spoken like a true "easterner".
-----
While everyone at ZH knows that I do not recognize or pretend that any fictitious entity is real (including "nation", "state", "county", etc), I really must say the following...
Everyone who thinks like you belongs east of the Mississippi river (or some ~N/S line that passes near Texas), and everyone who thinks you are a raving statist scumbag jerk belongs west of that line.
Let's be clear. Whether you believe "government" exists or not, they sure as hell do not own any freaking land. And the federal government certainly does not own any land outside of DC.
100% of this and almost every issue today is simply yet another case of "arbitrary assertions made by human predators". This is what predators do... just lie, grab, cheat, steal control, dominate and destroy whatever they can get away with.
Human predators deserve to be treated the same way as predators of all species.
Looked to me like the cattle were grazing a desert. Typical Westerner...
Send out your cattle to further damage a sensitive ecosystem (desert).
What you donT get, is that public land belongs to me too!
Please recall that the Constitutionally permitted areas that the federal government may administer are actually very restricted to only a few classes of land use, forts, dockyards, arsenals, etc. As usual, they have executed a mission creep for reasons of control. They shouldn't even be in the public land management business. Those lands should have been sold off to private citizens a long time ago, as the founders intended. Private ranchers maintain their grazing lands very well generally. The feds have been trying to break their covenant with the original pioneers since the Progressive Era. Lately they've been trying to config toward Agenda 21. They want to reverse the wagon trains. They have been trying to trash RS2477 since Jimmy Carter's Organic Act. Personally, I think free men don't need a hall pass to live, work, develop and play in the Rocky Mountains. On a pro rata basis, auction all non-Constitutional public lands (including National Parks) to each of the taxpayer families of each state in which they exist for whatever they are willing to pay. The choicest tracts will go for the most money. Only one tract per family unit. Guarantee an easement for access. The federal gummint can't be trusted to control so much public land and manipulate states, and to do so is a violation of their original mandate. Hell, they can't even be trusted to simply report truthfully, much less truly educate the youth (rather than school them-sorry, Tom Jefferson, but I have to disagree-you distrusted them insufficiently).
I have mixed emotions about some of this.
But if this is the start of American Revolution II, then, all's well that end's well.
Those "first ammendment areas" are simply abhorrent. That would imply, "my first ammendment rights exist nowhere else."
And north of the Mason-Dixon Line.
Go Fuck yourself.
Hey, go get fucked by the Bath House dick.
Lick it clean when you are through, assholio.
I said a few years ago that the shit would get real when the first banker gets shot. Seems to me - with all the bankster "suicides" and the murder in Lichtenstein (sp, sorry) last week - IT's FUCKING ON, MOFOs!
Think for a minute, about Ukraine, and then add that a friend's son in Army reserve has already been put on notice that he's going to Africa next year, as in 2015. This shit has all been war-gamed and planned out well in advance.
The stock market this week tells me one thing... here it comes.
That MIC servant being deployed to Africa could be a Sign of the Times. Unless, it is an exercise (?). How long will the MIC servant be deployed? If the deployment is only a few weeks, then it is just an exercise and simply shows how long the Emire's Reach has grown to.
However, if the MIC servant will be spending "months" in Africaland, ... (to be determined)
The American people's first and foremost weapon is to just quit paying, Let them try to maintain their house of cards ponzi without the stolen labor and wealth of their victims, the American people. They can't. And if one understands how the fraudulent-reserve banks work, they will realize that they stole the money they "loaned" you in the first place.
Then just quit paying, obeying and playing.
The Four Rs
Rejection: Quit paying, quit obeying, quit playing.
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Retribution: Is there really any place for these sociopaths and criminals in a
restored civil and Constitutional society?!
Restoration: Restore the Constitutional republic.
Super +.
Keep your roscoes in order to protect yourselves, never give 'em up!
But, this is a war to be fought by economic and refusenik means.
I thought the first shots of the 2nd American Revolution were going to be fired in NY or CT...now it seems that could very well be in NV.
No one will see the first shots coming, but they are coming.
I would conjecture that they may have already happened. Kent State? Ruby Ridge? Waco?
My money is on Waco, as the whole thing was a PR stunt--Yes, treason packaged as a PR stunt. And the DC US bombed the "block house," which killed the women and children, and used shooters to prevent escape.
David Koresh and his followers stood up to those criminals and handed the ATF their ass.
And a big salute to Andrew Joseph Stack III as well.
actually this Abby Martin video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7CDQn_ZgJs indicates barbed wire was also wrapped around the building to ensure anyone running from fire would be cut to pieces.
Someone will eventually pay...unfortunately, the button-pushers never do, in this world anyway
"The question of when to strike back is pivotal to any resistance movement."
You don't choose the moment...it just IS.
Unless the pigmen paid paid for mercereries join the 'anarchist'rebels we will never have a chance. We are out-organized and out-out gunned. That's the sad reality. And the pigmen do not give a fuck about your or my cause, the are getting paid and laid.
You are grossly misinformed.......
Inform him. How many pigmen are on his side?
None of the pigmen are going to switch sides. All of the pigmen are going to support the roundup. None of the pigmen are going to do anything to prevent it. Unless i am grossly misinformed... So inform me too. How many pigmen are switching sides?
#eddiebe
Just Kill Them All.
+1 And the pigmen will do nothing which would interfere with their retirement plan.
Fuck the Washington D.C. Globalists. Arrest the Rockefellers and Rothschilds for financial terrorism.
Only the 'crazys' in the alt media are following Bundy Ranch. Besides the gas and oil leases the BLM runs land grab rackets for claiming so and so endangered specie as the reason for confiscating land you got this also. Is anyone buying that they are protecting tortoises, no one ever brings out the snipers to remove people from land for tortoises or any animal for that matter.
http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-...
BLM attempted cover-up of Sen. Reid/Chinese gov’t takeover of ranch for solar farm
Kit Daniels
Infowars.com
April 11, 2014
The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.
Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”
“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.
Another BLM report entitled Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone (BLM Technical Note 444) reveals that Bundy’s land in question is within the “Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone and surrounding area” which is part of a broad U.S. Department of Energy program for “Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States” on land “managed” by BLM.
“In 2012, the BLM and the U.S. Department of Energy published the Final Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement (PEIS) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States,” the report reads. “The Final Solar Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement assessed the impact of utility-scale solar energy development on public lands in the six southwestern states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah.”
“The Approved Resource Management Plan Amendments/Record of Decision (ROD) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States implemented a comprehensive solar energy program for public lands in those states and incorporated land use allocations and programmatic and SEZ-specific design features into land use plans in the six-state study area.”
Back in 2012, the New American reported that Harry Reid’s son, Rory Reid, was the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada.
And journalist Marcus Stern with Reuters also reported that Sen. Reid was heavily involved in the deal as well.
“[Reid] and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert,” he wrote. “Reid has been one of the project’s most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada.”
“His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission.”
Although these reports are in plain view, the mainstream media has so far ignored this link.
The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise, which the agency has previously been killing in mass due to “budget constraints.”
“A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher; they want his land,” journalist Dana Loesch wrote. “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when [U.S. Senator] Harry Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.”
“Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”
“If only Cliven Bundy were a big Reid donor.”
Guess who that new BLM chief is
http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/nevadan-named-blm-chief/
CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) — A natural resource manager who grew up in Elko has been named director of the Bureau of Land Management.
The U.S. Senate voted 71-28 on Tuesday to confirm the appointment of Neil Kornze to the post.
Kornze was raised in Elko and is a former senior adviser to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. He joined the BLM in 2011 and has been leading the agency as principal deputy director for the past year.
The BLM oversees more than 245 million acres of public lands nationwide, including about 48 million acres inNevada.
Dude, one half of that story (the Reid connection to ENN) made it into mainstream media:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBR...
Pelosi's brother-in-law got a federal loan and profited from the giant solar farm on the CA/NV border off I-15. Cronyism at it's best.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/12/ron-pelosis-connection-to-tonopah-solar...
Yeah Brandon, I hear you. But if you think that the average American is willing to give up personal comfort for personal liberty, I want some of what you're smokin'.
Imho, you are a way above the average American. But, that don't mean we can count on any kind of revolution We are a tiny minority, the vast majority has no idea of the things you speak.
Soon, they will all know you were right- but by then, it will be too fkn late.
Godspeed, Brandon!
The middle class is dying. Our personal comfort is in the process of evaporating.
So, we agree. Why so many junks? It's not that I give a fuck. But, it bothers me to think that so many people who read this post found it necessary to junk the truth.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds"
- Samuel Adams
We're going to win, acetinker, because we have to. As for the junks, forget it; it's just the Fight Club letting you know it is going to fight; it's fighting now. And welcome to the club!
Are you telling me that 1/8th of fight club is like me (us)? I always thought of fight club as a sort of thing that has always existed- kinda like my perception of God. I thought it was a community of like-minded individuals who shared ideas.
Guess I was wrong about that, but may God (not the one you'll find in a church), bless you!
edit: OK, now it's 2/8ths.
Our odds are improving.
edit#2: At last check, it's now 3/8ths. That''s more that enough.
No, I think that a lot of Fight Club misinterpreted what you said. That, and some of them may be chomping at the bit.
El Vaq, you and I have tangled in the past. You may not remember, but I do.
I'm a pretty straightforward guy- If someone mis-interprets what I say- it's on them.
As for chomping at the bit, that would be the America First crowd. I ain't part of that.
I don't think it's misinterpretation. I think people have had enough. They are tired of being categorized as too lazy or comfortable on their down cushions to drag themselves up to fight. The problem is this war is too nebulous. People can't understand the intricacies of high finance, HFT or rehypothecation or how it affects them.Hell, I don't get most of it. However they can understand the government taking someone's property away. Possibly they can relate that to happening to themselves. This is understandable. I don't know if this will have any meaning in the short term but it may have stirred some minds awake and that is always a good thing.
Miffed;-)
P.S. I didn't down vote you FYI, just so don't hate me for something I haven't done.
It's not just finance either. Resource limits are coming into play. When that happens, people get restless and angry, and wealth inequality tends to make this worse. You're right, most will not understand the fraud that is our finance system. They may understand that there is a fraud, but not how or why, and that is dangerous, because it leaves future generations more vulnerable to the same kinds of fraud. And yes, simple straight forward JBT tyranny is something that they can understand. When they see on the news that somebody was killed in a no-knock raid, it makes many uncomfortable, especially when the cops got the wrong address. How many people think to themselves "Shit, I'd shoot at people who break down my door too?" The shooting of James Boyd and the anal probing in Deming has people around here wondering WTF is going on, but they know for damned sure that they don't want to have cameras literally shoved up their ass and they don't want to get shot because a cop decided to escalate the situation.
And that's also way Dorner was praised as a hero by the public for scaring the shit out of the panties of cops who damn near everyone knows are dirty mafia gangsters and drug dealers.
I think a lot of people, when given a simple explanation, can understand HFT & rehypothecation very well.
HFT permits stealing by front-running trades, just like peeking at other people's poker hands in a game. It's cheating leading to stealing. No one will fail to understand that.
Same with rehypothecation: cheating, claiming 1 thing as many things to get more money for it, which is fraud, making all profits stealing. Doesn't matter if it's made legal in one place (London) and not another (Toronto, for example).
What matters is that most people have been stolen from by the people who now are being robbed by HFT's so there's zero sympathy for those who now are being robbed by other robbers. They don't think the robbery is right but those too poor to invest or had their investments robbed once in a much more plain manner, but with no recourse, have no sympathy for the robber being robbed.
Well, I didn't red you. As for chomping at the bit, yes, there are the America First types, but there are also the "Fuck, this is going to hurt, so lets get it over with as quick as possible" types.
I don't know about U people, but I am proud to be a Life Member of the NRA. I am proud of this country and its founding.Ever since 1860 this country has been under attack from within. The blue bellies must be destroyed, can't make it simpler than that.
When the time comes, U look in the mirror. I hope u see a man what can do the job.
I would be glad to share my powder and some hard tack. You appear to have correctly identified the targets in question.
None so craven than a politician who sees the writing on the wall for themselves....he will sell out his masters as fast as he can.
Have to force a critical number of politicians to become craven, and pull the rug from beneath their masters feet.
One has to wonder whether the lower-class of paid thug predators will continue to wander around in uniforms (wearing "bulls-eyes") when their prey starts fighting back wearing nothing that identifies them!
Ha!
One of the characteristics of predators, and a major reason they are so successful, is their expertise in being invisible --- remaining stationary, hiding in tall grass, hiding in areas that camouflage them, etc. If this civil war does break out, and the regular folks who decide to fight it are smart enough to AVOID being labeled (by the clothes they wear, the groups they visibly hang out with, or the statements they make), the lower levels of predators will eventually realize how screwed they are.
OTOH, if those who fight on the side of liberty also wear bulls-eyes (uniforms) or equivalent, it is they who are royally screwed given the identification and remote destruction technologies the predators overwhelmingly dominate.
I agree with other posters who worry that the gun and liberty crowd may focus their efforts on the wrong places and wrong people. As wrong and corrupt as they may be, the predators-that-be are not "welfare recipients" or "unemployment recipients" or the endless stream of other recipients of freebies. These parasites cannot exist as parasites without the endless abuses the predators implement.
To be effective, efforts must focus on the top of the pyramid, and the more visible level of scumbags who "officially approve the indefensible", which most certainly includes the top several layers in all three fake "branches" of predators-DBA-government. The lower level predator-thugs paid by the predators-that-be can also be effective targets, especially those identified as taking abusive actions. Websites that identify specific predator-thugs may become quite popular. Or maybe I'm behind the time, and other methods like tweets and such are more effective.
Fuck that. The person that claims the moral right to steal from me is no different than the person that claims the moral right to receive the plunder. I have enough ammo for both.
If you imagine fighting a very well funded, very well supplied pack of predators like those in control of the world today can proceed in any old inefficient manner that happens to feel good at the moment... well... you may be right morally, but you will never succeed.
Which is why I advise you take actions that are wise, smart, efficient... at least until the battle is clearly won. Of course, you don't have to take my advice or anyone elses either.
You may have lots of ammo, but you only have one life.
honestann, sounds like al-ciada to me, and it might just work.
I completely agree that the target of our efforts should be directed a little higher up the chain of command!
This is why CNN is looping coverage of flight 370, day and night.
As this Federal regime gets incrementally shamed on the international stage, they will ramp their domestic tyranny, which will in turn catalyze violent resistance. The Fedcoats are living on borrowed time, and they will try to steal private property before the government collapses. This, I believe, will mark Bloody Sunday. I'm largely prepared, I have picked 7, we are training, and we are well stocked with strategic supplies. I look forward to the inflection point, and helping be a small part of a very large effort to restore our Constitution inside a nation of those ready, willing, and able to defend its values.
You'll need gas masks, oxygen tanks, for when the nerve gas is deployed.
#
When you are replying to someones' comment can you put #name at the start cuz it is really hard keeping track.
EG.
#BobRockt, you are talking shite.
Only two people in a fight at any one time (rule 2 I think)
There are still people with courage and we are ready to fight. As Captin Parker said at Lexington Green, "Do not fire until fire upon. If they want a fight let it start here." Once the feds fire the first shot III% of Americans are ready to defend our freedom and many in the armed forces and civilian law enforcement will join us. Those of you fucks who work for blackwater et al have a mark on your head also.
Just for shits and giggles, find out the location of your nearest Department of the Interior/BLM/NFS office...
Regarding:
"The question of when to strike back is pivotal to any resistance movement. Turn to violence too soon or without proper cause in the eyes of the public, and the rebellion may lose the moral high ground and the support of the populace. Wait too long, and the totalitarian hordes may be too far entrenched, forcing the rebellion to fight from a position of strategic weakness."
First I Ching I threw was Hexagram 49 changing to 16.
http://www.pantherwebworks.com/I_Ching/bk1h42-52.html#49
49. Ko / Revolution (Molting)"... Political revolutions are extremely grave matters. They should be undertaken only under stress of direst necessity, when there is no other way out. ..."
Although this article was O.K., I still think that Brandon Smith does not get within a light year of the kind of intellectual scientific revolution that is actually necessary. He appears to merely be talking about how the runaway established systems of government enforced frauds will inevitably get worse, faster, until they cause a reaction. However, in my view the so-called "Liberty Movement" is dominated by reactionary revolutionaries, who promote the nostalgic nonsense of being able to go backwards. The revolution we need is most of all in the ways we think! The "Liberty Movement" appears to promote the same old false fundamental dichotomies, and the related impossible ideals, that actually make the opposite happen in the real world.
Ironically, almost everyone that I know of that promotes "paradigm shifts" does not do so, but rather, tends to merely use the need for "paradigm shifts" to collapse back to promoting the same old-fashioned impossible ideals. I recommend looking much more seriously at the paradigm shifts in basic sciences that made weapons of mass destruction possible, because the BIG PROBLEM with any violent revolution in the USA is that there is an abundance of weapons of mass destruction. There is no sane way to fight a war with weapons of mass destruction, and no sane way to fight a violent revolution with weapons of mass destruction. However, that does not mean that one can merely ignore that there are lots of those weapons already existing! Rather, one should have an understanding of how and why they were built, in order to more fully face the fact that they exist.
While I tend to agree that the government of the USA has become almost totally based on runaway systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which is automatically getting worse, faster, and therefore, that surely is going to eventually provoke reactions, because "it is not a question of “if” citizens snap, but when," those reactions are more likely to be an indication of us approaching times of Peak Insanities, as we approach Peak Everything Else.
Any Second American Revolution, or Second American Civil War, will be primarily the result of the psychopaths that control the country pushing things through to psychotic breakdowns. In that context, I certainly agree that "when this resistance erupts, it will shock even those who fully expect it."
In the meantime, a few of us scratch our heads and try to imagine ANY plausible ways to minimize insanity (or at very least keep insanity from peaking), but achieve vastly too few successes.
As for weapons of mass destruction (namely "nukes"), one can perhaps entertain the notion that the predators-that-be would hesitate a long time before they'd nuke people in the USA. Well, not counting a "false flag" event, which I have no doubt they will execute eventually if they are not overthrown. But to openly nuke even the boonies of Nevada? I suspect they know this would REALLY bring out a huge percentage of "gun nuts" and "liberty nuts" a shooting --- without qualms, hesitations or reservations. So... not likely, I think.
But the point of your message is so right. As a thinking experiment, imagine there is a civil war and the liberty side FLAT OUT WINS.
Even the best of the liberty advocates are essentially clueless. They might not be malicious, but I just can't see them as intellectually able to take the next step towards sanity, honesty and benevolence. Not in any OFFICIAL act.
Let's face it. The declaration of independence and constitution were over 200 years ago. That is vastly MORE than enough time to "get real", to "get sane", to comprehend the fact that "all fictitious entities are fictions" (duh), and draw the appropriate conclusions.
Like what? Like the fact that so-called "government" (of all forms) must be formally and thoroughly denied and eliminated (identified as a psychopathic, sociopathic fiction, then formally and utterly abandoned).
ONLY THEN could those individuals who want to be enslaved create fully voluntary associations to abuse and rule themselves... with nobody required to join any of them, and with absolutely zero limitations or disadvantages to those who do not join. In other words, the closest to "government" that can exist is "services by subscription". That some of those "services" are similar to those now supposedly provided by supposed government... is irrelevant (because anyone can provide voluntary services to anyone, with or without "official government").
As badly as the predators-that-be need their butts kicked, this issue is probably the most depressing one to realize. Humans today are vastly dumber (and more insane, and intellectually detached from reality) than they were in the 1700s, and thus almost certainly incapable of further advancing the state of sentient beings in this universe.
Hell, I doubt they'll even acknowledge that "the constitution didn't restrain the predators-that-be", and therefore "this can't work". Sigh.
Liberty was never meant to survive on the promises on a paper contract alone. The Constitution is no more capable of restraining the evil intents of men than the bible is......
Not my junk btw. I like your posts and feel you offer a lot of "between the lines" insights.....
So, do you think ANY of the current crop of "liberty advocates" will agree to return to the 1770s?
Remember, in the 1770s there were NO CORPORATIONS.
That's right. Oh, they did (not sure when) start to recognize narrow-purpose, limited-time partnerships of sorts (called "charters" and "corporations" if I remember correctly), but nothing like modern "corporations" which are unlimited in size, scope and duration.
The FACT is, the founding fathers had no legimate basis to arrive at a continent that was already populated, then a few dozen of them sign a piece of paper and thereby obligate millions of people... for untold centuries if not millennia. When you look at this and other acts of "establishment" of "nations", you cannot avoid seeing that they are utterly and completely insane. There simply cannot be any magic action by which a few dozen individuals obligate millions, and somehow magically apply to some arbitrary region (that is already populated by long time natives), or choose individuals to make rules that millions of non-participants must follow.
I'm serious. EVERY individual who is both sane and honest who thinks about this must agree to the above, because it is utterly obvious. Any attempt to justify ANY sort of "magic obligation of millions" is flaming insane, and obviously so. Just because people never look at the question this way, does not mean that WHEN they look at the situation this way (the way it was), they can escape the obvious conclusion.
I'm all for liberty. But anyone who imagines a document signed by a couple dozen individuals can possibly obligate or control ANYONE else... is not for liberty. That is so simple, it is in fact a tautology (which means "inherently correct, because they are just two ways of saying the same thing"). And indeed that is so.
What needs to happen is for humans to recognize that "government is fiction", and then stop trying to make the fiction true (which is trying to make the impossible true). There is no SantaClaus, and the fact that billions of people believe SantaClaus exists does NOT make SantaClaus real. It makes the believers insane in the most fundamental possible way --- unable to distinguish what exists from what does not exist (what is versus what is not AKA reality versus fiction).
Anyone who wants liberty needs to understand this... or they will just plant the seeds for yet another horrific holocaust.
Humans need to ADVANCE... not regress.
Yes, the less virulent statism of the late 1700s and early 1800s was an advance over the blatant authoritarianism that dominated most parts of the world for over 2000 years, but humans must ADVANCE BEYOND that point to solve the real problem, which is the very notion of ANYONE (individual or individuals or "constitutions" or "majority vote") obligating or controlling ANY individual. Otherwise, humans will just continue to destroy themselves, and life will continue to get worse and worse. Isn't 240 years enough time to advance a bit?
"Isn't 240 years enough time to advance a bit?"
Not if you consider how technology and evolution have interacted.
Technology has increased resources needed for reproduction.
Increases in resources allow individuals with higher sex drives to reproduce at a greater rate.
Those (male and female) with higher sex drives generally have higher testosterone levels.
Higher testosterone levels are passed on to their offspring.
Higher testosterone causes faster development of an infant's body at the expense of the development of the brain.
Shortening of brain development impairs the final stages - the higher brain functions.
Viola: devolution.
Then there is the effect of non-assortative immigration.
I don't fully grok your theory, but somewhat understand.
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But your theory leaves me with a nagging question. With all that endless testosterone coursing through the bodies of everyone today, why doesn't anyone take action to defend themselves against the predators who constantly and egregiously ruin their lives? Seems like testosterone would make that more likely, not less.
The basic effect of too much test is to make the brain more primitive by shortening the final stage of brain development. The growth program for body and brain runs faster, like in animals.
That is the harmful effect on males - an increase in knuckle-draggers. For females the effect is generally positive - a shift towards a systemizing (male) brain and away from a socializing (female) brain leading to more women in male dominated fields like the STEMs. More scientists. In past times when test increased, it is likely that higher test knuckle-draggers physically subdued the more cerebral females increasing the chance of societal collapse. Capable males devolved, capable females suppressed, decivilization in act three.
As for the absence of defenders, triggering defense requires a real or perceived threat to survival. The tribe has long been perceived as a benefit to survival and flipping the ingroup moralization switch is extremely difficult. That's why Johnny goes off to die for his ingroup in war, which is an act of insanity.
I suspect there are far too many factors operating in this question that I am not aware of. So I doubt I have the background information to figure out what is happening. So even if your claims are correct, my general sense of reality tells me there is a lot more going on here, and a lot more factors and dynamics at work.
I still remember what it was like to live in "civilization" (populated areas) before I moved to the extreme boonies more recently (~3 years). I should have gotten used to it, but nonetheless was always amazed at how seemingly clueless and disoriented most humans were compared to me. And I'm not talking about science or intellectual feats, I'm talking about just being able to drive a car, recognize the light color changed, manage to make a turn without coming to an almost complete stop, know which lanes are for faster traffic, and endless other simple measures of simple awareness.
I lived in Hawaii for many years, and did notice that people there were significantly more aware of their surroundings and themselves than people elsewhere in the states (when I used to travel, which was not often). So maybe the much cleaner environment and absense of chem-trails had something to do with that. Don't know.
Though I can't give scientific measures, a short trip to "civilization" not too long ago makes me think most people are becoming clueless at an amazingly fast pace. Though I didn't visit any universities (maybe I should once as comparison), it looks like young folks are just about as clueless and unaware and disoriented as older folks.
I honestly wonder if cell phones are frying brains. Because I'm very frugal (and very scientific and high-tech), I've never owned a cell phone (or other small gizmos), so maybe that's why my brain didn't get fried. Or something neither of us understands... YET.
Your comment about "real threat" and "perceived threat" is interesting. As far as I'm concerned, there have been "real threats" around ALWAYS... as far back in history as you want to go. So apparently what is happening (to adopt your theory for a moment) is that humans are no longer able to perceive the OBVIOUS threats that are all around them. Maybe we should re-formulate your sentence to say IMMINENT threats. Maybe humans have been brainwashed or otherwise conditioned to accept enormous threats and even overt destruction... as long as the process is spread across a few years rather than seconds. That would, at least, fit in with your general theory and my observation that humans today are clueless, unaware, disoriented (and maybe we should add "distracted" by popular nonsense).
These lines of thoughts make me wonder. Were the humans who moved to "frontiers" in the past primarily "aware" or "brave"? The tendency is to imagine they were primarily "brave", but all the issues we're discussing here might imply that they've ALWAYS been more "aware" than "brave", and perhaps what happened was... "aware" folks of all kinds and types (brave, competent and otherwise) got the hell outta dodge (and moved to some frontier)... and the less competent simply got killed off (the typical evolutionary force).
Lots of possibilities in these lines of thought.
Ha, love it..."just being able to drive a car, recognize the light color changed, manage to make a turn without coming to an almost complete stop, know which lanes are for faster traffic, and endless other simple measures of simple awareness".
This shit "drives" me nuts just about every day of my life! I love the people who just can't seem to comprehend a 4-way stop. Flat land, can see a mile in every direction. Number 2 in the queue and when it is their turn, they begin to look around and notice their surroundings. The clock-speed of their little brains being so painfully slow.
But... if everyone was as "smart" and "aware" as us, we would just be average. Average income, average assets, average lives.
Maybe "smart" just means "alert"... at least to some extent.
I dunno. However, I do remember years ago when I took some IQ tests that I noticed that being aware of a single key could lead someone to get high scores. Since I noticed that key, I got ridiculously high scores (probably much higher than my intelligence warrants).
The key? Always consider what is "commensurate". My observation was, the wrong answers were not commensurate with the answer demanded by the question. So all one needed to do... without even knowing the right answers at all... was to find the answer that was commensurate. It felt a bit like a TV episode that would be named "Homer Simpson aces the IQ tests".
When I think back to when I was much younger, I imagine (but am not certain) that people were just as clueless today in the intellectual sense (namely, MASSIVELY), but not so much in the "situational awareness" sense. I wonder if others can remember better than I.
I don't think that they were necessarily "aware" or "brave", but forced out of more viable environments to less viable environments because they weren't able to compete physically.
By doing this, perhaps our more savage ancestors selectively bred more human ancestors culminating in H. sapiens. After all, the robust ones are gone, and the more capable gracile are flourishing.
Isn't that what happen to the Jews? And you left the coalescing Idiocracy called the US and also want to leave earth. It would be a rational thing to do.
They are defending. The predators are too many & the weapons too few.
Ann, would you say that the desire to change others, subtly but essentially equates to a desire to control others, and therefore the correct responsibility here is to advance just yourself and to stop all this trying to meddle with or change others, and just face that it is their responsibility to change themselves, and recognize that they're entirely free not to advance themselves?
That would be the logical response, would it not?
In which case, is festering over what others do just a distraction or avoidance from advancing ourselves, given it is not our place to meddle and shunt people into compliance with advancement (i.e. same as what govt and religion and ideology does)?
'Advancement' seems a lot like 'progress' and progressiveness, with a new paint job, which is why I prefer the slightly less inadequate term 'develop', because flowers bud and develop as a natural process, and as I see it our internal natural process has been stymied, derailed and prevented, via the prevailing plurality and over-socialization, as 'culture'. Over-socialization is of course the very mechanism of trying to make everyone think and act within certain bounds, and to know the accepted version of reality, and observe the approved State authority and allegiances, etc.
But if we really are at Liberty, internally, then we are the only ones stymieing us, at that point.
Frankly I think external liberty and freedom are a myth, one of the fictions, even in a natural state primates in general are hierarchical social critters and controlled by a top-dog or alpha-male and/or a senior female, unless they're outcasts, or just leave the group.
Frankly I see nothing wrong with being a voluntary or involuntary outcast, from the over-socialisation culture programming of the drones, if it is necessary to naturally develop. I do see quite a bit that's faulty with remaining in society and expecting everyone else to develop, while taking their cues from clever secondhand verbal persuasion and prompting.
We know they don't really do that. They may superficially change external action, a bit, for a time, but they don't actually develop in that way, at all.
It is an individual internal act of development or it is nothing but more words and fiction and externally-directed action and argument to change others (which RM accurately points-out does not work) via the latest concoction of cute and pleasing ideas.
It misses our responsibility to develop, and instead we replace it with everyone else's need to wake up and act. But we have no control over others, and no place pursuing it either - right?
I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say. In reality, no matter what kind of bogus system or culture people live in, everyone is free to do whatever they want. But they suffer the consequences too. So in the metaphysical sense, everyone is free, and has no choice but to be free. But I think I am missing what you're pointing at, because to me, wanting to avoid being trashed for doing what I want to do is not an instance of manipulating or controlling others --- it is an instance of me not wanting them to manipulate or control me. To imply that saying "leave me alone" is an instance of manipulating others is... WACKO --- and Orwellian.
I think I am completely misunderstanding the thrust of your post, because it seems to imply "telling people you want to be left alone, and that their claims you must obey their stupid demands" somehow constitutes "festering over what others do".
I agree that the "liberty" concept most people hold in their heads is mostly myth, but also massively vague and full of random associations and nonsense inserted by others. But that doesn't mean humans don't need a concept that means something like "liberty". They do.
Well, yeah, when others throw rocks at me, "what others do" is relevant to me. And when people steal my stuff, "what others do" is relevant to me. And when they pay others to screw me over in every way at every opportunity, yeah, "what others do" is relevant to me. And if you want to call that "fester"... well... go ahead, because it does get tiring.
Of course, I don't deal with any of that any more in the physical sense, though it is always possible uncivilization will someday find me in the middle of nowhere. But I had to invest a lot of time (5 years off and on) to find the right place for me, and then spend a lot of money and uproot my life to "move elsewhere" to avoid their endless assaults. So what people do did indeed have a large impact on my life, and I would rather have been able to spend all my time, effort, skills and resources on other endeavors. Though I must say, I really do love living here in the middle of nowhere and having zero contact with human beings except typing into ZH text boxes now and then.
I also don't quite understand what is so obscure about what I mean by "advance". It simply means drop the totally freaking stupid and terminally insane ideas of more primitive times. To more accurately identify and understand the nature of reality, consciousness and human interaction is not just some "random development"... it IS an advancement --- just as much as understanding that celestial bodies naturally move in conic orbits (circle, ellipse, parabola, hyperbola).
To understand how un-freaking-believably absurd it is for human beings to have NEVER even asked themselves the questions I noted above... then to understand the appropriate intellectual and existential consequences OF understanding --- is indeed an advance.
I dare ANYONE to give even a slightly coherent, sensible explanation for how a couple dozen people smearing ink on paper can possibly obligate millions of OTHER people for hundreds or thousands of miles and across decades and centuries.
You can't do it, and nobody else in this forum can do it, because it is OBVIOUS even to clueless individuals that any attempt is completely absurd in so many ways, and so easy to show is self-contradictory and self-refuting. The OBVIOUS fact is, since dozens of liars (parents, teachers, media) jammed the notion that some "founding fathers created a nation, and we're all part of that" so many thousand times... the vast majority of people never bother to sit back and observe the OBVIOUS --- even though the obvious is exactly what everyone agrees happened (a bunch of dudes spread ink on paper).
It is an advance in honest and understanding when people replace completely insane and absurd assertions with recognition of what really happened (ink spread on paper, followed by endless propaganda), then from that realize that EVERYTHING they've ever been told about "authority" and "government" and "officials" and "laws" and "nations" and "corporations" and dozens of other ideas that are central to their lives and behavior --- ARE PURE FICTIONS WITH ZERO REALITY.
None of this matters to me any more. I understand. I comprehend --- thoroughly. And I've removed myself from the usual influences that most humans suffer. And I work towards a way completely out of the mess humans have made for themselves.
My only motive for saying anything in ZH is to perhaps once or twice in the 4 years I've been posting to say something that gets someone to say, "holy crapola man, I can't believe how simple this is, and how utterly fraudulant conventional ideas are". That the best case. Which means, typing into text boxes in the ZH website is a gross waste of my time. Usually when I have a little free time I go outside and walk a few kilometers under the gorgeous southern-hemisphere night sky, or have my telescope slew around and show me a few dozen galaxies or planetary nebula or whatever I feel like at the moment. But sometimes I waste my time. It is a bit odd, because I didn't get much help growing up, but some of these issues are soooo obvious and soooo easy to expose, I can't resist.
So I shall continue my self-imposed 12-step program of sorts designed to wean me off of ZH completely. I'm sure lots of people will be relieved... a few fewer utterly obvious inconvenient facts of reality to face once I'm gone from here.
I utterly agree that 99.999999% will not benefit measurably from anything I say. Definitely so. But I know one human being who may very well advance us more than the entire history of mankind has before now, and I spend most of my life helping him and his other collaborators on that endeavor. So I know, one individual CAN make an enormous difference. Chances? 1 in a million, perhaps. But that's all I'm hoping for... best case.
Maybe what I should say is... I'm not trying to change anyone or anything. In fact, what I am doing (the way I look at this), is to put a few ideas out there, and if someone finds something I say interesting, they will advance (or develop) in whatever way they do, whatever that may be.
I really don't give a damn what people think about me. I never even think that thought when I type here in ZH, though in the back of my mind, I've known for my whole life that 99.99999% of what I say just angers 99.99999% of the people who hear or read it. But I write for the [possibility of the] other 0.00001%, so who cares?
And I've always loved you precisely for that. But yeah, you didn't get what I meant.
We can't change anyone by argument, at best we could 'help' someone move on a bit who was ready to do so because they'd already made themselves ready to do so. And as you know mostly people don't. And the ones who do are serious people and need no real help, they'll work it out themselves out of need and necessity.
I would only add that no one is the same, we're genetically human and can breed together but we're true variations on a theme, and in some there's much more variability in the mix than we realize. Some widely varying mix of the same (numerous) basic factors.
Consequently there can be no cookie-cutter template to 'help' others as the mix is always different. My responses and actions are clearly different to others, as are yours. So I question if one human can really help another to develop or advance at all. I suspect that that developing process takes a necessarily different path, in each and every case, simply due to the different mix that is each and every person. However, a lot of people fail to realize this and propose to change others or be a mentor or guide when they can not cater for the diversity of each person that's not amenable to their sort of template. Then the template is an impediment, not a help.
Consequently each person has to engage their own natural process of developments that must also be unique to them. This is not to say they can't learn a lot of knowledge or what might be called 'wisdom' for want of a better word, as a secondhand artifact of that other persons prior developmental processing, but that isn't going help the other individual because a secondhand 'wisdom' does not cut it at all - it has to be firsthand.
Which means they have to do all the developing - it can not come from outside.
And I think many people simply can't accept that or else don't even realize it, that they are not going to help another develop, ever. They never have, and they never will, but they love the idea of thinking that they can, and do.
But it all comes from each individual alone or else it doesn't come at all.
Which puts all the responsibility precisely where it should be and actually has to be.
Plus it pulls the rug out from under the heroic messianic middle-man extreme-egotist who thinks it's their place to save everyone and thus garner accolades and false-authority and nice-guy status and the sordid self-interested crap which follows.
Liberty is not "changing people".
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Liberty is saying, "hey folks, go concoct your own personal, individual, wild, crazy, unique dreams, then implement them, and see how they work (meaning, accept the consequences)".
Liberty is saying, "and good luck, and I hope you get great results, because if I see your wild, crazy, insane, wacko, freaky approach generates good results, I might try some of your approach too".
But liberty is also saying, "just don't try to change me or force me to adopt your approach until I decide it is worthwhile trying, and don't go out there and take actions, then attempt to shift the consequences of those actions upon me (which is yet another way to change me).
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The fact is, everyone benefits in a world of liberty. EVERYONE. Why? Fundamentally because they get to observe the results of 7-billion experiments, and adopt whatever aspects of experiments that have consequences we personally value or enjoy (more than the ones we already enjoy from our current actions).
At first, liberty seems like "maximum diversity", because it says, "hey everyone, make up your own wild, crazy, wacko approaches and try them out".
However, we all know what happens naturally - without anyone forcing others. People do see that others are getting better results, and they do adopt portions of approaches others take, and they do so voluntarily for their own good.
So the net result of liberty is not chaos or maximum diversity, but a natural convergence on a better life (with modest delays in the feedback mechanism).
There is no need even to attempt to help anyone... though when people are not being pushed around by each other, the tendency to voluntarily help each other with ideas and insights increases dramatically.
I completely disagree with the notion that humans cannot help other humans advance by saying "hey, have you considered this?" now and then. Sometimes individuals just don't notice things that are right in front of their eyes. I hope I don't need to prove that at this point, after giving the example of how virtually EVERY HUMAN ON EARTH missed the UTTERLY OBVIOUS fact that "a couple dozens dudes smearing ink on paper does not create a nation, and cannot possibly obligate millions of others across centuries". How obvious is that? TOTALLY. And yet billions of humans on this planet have managed to miss noticing this obvious fact.
So... yeah... I do think people can help each other, at least in principle.
But I do agree, ALL we can do legitimately is offer help. NO MORE. NO FORCE.
I also agree there is no legitimate "cookie-cutter" approach. But that certainly doesn't mean there aren't effective "cookie-cutter" approaches. My example illustrates just how effective brainwashing is (especially at young ages). That is a cookie-cutter approach that works, and works very efficiently and effectively. Of course, this is something that "works" in the negative sense (though achieves the goal the predators intend and desire).
But you are totally correct that "you can lead a human to understanding, but you can't make them think". Any fact we point out is only material they can take advantage of, but they must focus their brains, be honest with themselves, and work to understand, integrate, connect and move forward with the idea thereafter. Otherwise, the tip comes to no good.
I think you have a wrong idea about what I think is practical. I and the group of individuals I work with do NOT believe humans have more than 1 chance in a million to escape their spiral down the toilet. As I've said many times, humans are finished, and all that remains is the painful specifics of the final destruction.
However, we do recognize the reality of the "frontier phenomenon". This phenomenon had consequences in the past, but recently has run up against a mostly fully explored planet. So I do not hope to save mankind. Not gonna happen. Not even if the best humans I know apply the rest of our lives to that end.
However, we can "get the hell out of dodge". I've done that in a very tiny personal way, and it has worked great. But I suspect I took advantage of the last vestiges of the final tail end of the "frontier phenomenon" on this planet, and this opportunity will end within a few decades at most. However, the universe is "out there". Humans have already traveled in outer space, and to other large bodies (the moon), and even lived in outer space for the better part of a year.
So while the obstacle to take advantage of the next frontier is huge, it is not impossible. As you know, the reason we have a good chance to take advantage of this leap forward is because we have a technology with vastly more potential that outer space, one that helps us get into outer space, live in outer space, survive forever, and advance at an astronomically faster pace than ever before in history.
So yeah, mankind has no chance. But maybe, if we're good and lucky, a few of us will move beyond planet earth, move beyond organic consciousness, and leave humanity in the dustbin of history where it sadly belongs (with very few exceptions). We regret the vast majority of good folks will go down with the ship. Tough luck, but this is reality, not a screenplay.
Well I do wish you and your team associates all the 'good-and-lucky' in the world and beyond Ann, I recognize that you have an exceptional mind, though I can see there are things that you are not aware of about it yet, and I expect you would not even accept its potential actuality. But there's more to development than the advancement to which you spoke, but that unbased and unhelpful assertion will have to be left hanging. I only say it so you maybe will not stop discovering in that direction, as the best discovery about the mind is very close to you.
I appreciated your thoughtful reply.
I, 0.00001% care,thanks for you insights.
"I dare ANYONE to give even a slightly coherent, sensible explanation for how a couple dozen people smearing ink on paper can possibly obligate millions of OTHER people for hundreds or thousands of miles and across decades and centuries."
I guess most people need a point to hang on to, a anchor if you will.
Not all are free thinkers you know.
So the Constitution was the best they could formulate as a guiding principle, besides the bible, to make a fledgeling country as good as posibble.
(remembering how the king's of old used to rule)
And it worked, kindoff
I agree we have (should) advance/evolve to something differend, less caveman more universal (yes, in the big sence) and try to overcome our programming (commercials/state propaganda/clan) and reach for the stars.
? of us know we live on a small blue lifeboat called Earth
Yes, you are exactly correct to identify that my intent was to put that specific idea or realization (because everyone knows the facts) out there to function as an anchor. Exactly right.
And I suspect you and a few others here understand why I often chose that particular undisputed fact out there for others to consider. The reason is twofold. One, everyone understands the facts, and they are not even in dispute (that a couple dozen dudes smeared ink on paper). EVERYONE agrees to the facts.
And every honest (or even slightly honest) individual who attempts to claim that a couple dozen dudes smearing ink on paper can somehow obligate millions or billions of other people across centuries or millennia --- quickly realizes any attempt to justify or defend that is utterly and completely insane and ludicrous and self-refuting and self-contradictory that...
The exercise exposes the point that needs to be made --- that most of the most important ideas humans believe are utterly and completely insane. Even obviously insane sometimes, as this example clearly illustrates. So the necessary aspect of the point is obvious --- if humans want a better result than we have today, they need to identify and then thoroughly eliminate all the completely bogus notions they hold. And this example should clearly illustrate to everyone how entire populations of entire planets can be brainwashed into accepting utterly and completely insane, outrageous, self-contradictory conclusions simply by being told the wacko interpretation a few dozen or hundred times by the first predators they encounter in life (parents, teachers, friends, media).
What many people don't seem to realize is that liberty really is different from all other theories. Liberty doesn't tell anyone how to live. Liberty only tells them to live their own lives however they wish, then enjoy/bare/suffer all the consequences of the actions they take, and enjoy/bare/suffer zero consequences of the actions other humans take.
Every other theory tells humans that it is okay (and even necessary) for someone (maybe even them to some extent) to manipulate others. Liberty does not require anyone to advance, it only says "leave me alone or I will defend myself". Which means, each individual who does advance his mind, his understanding of reality, his personal skills and abilities... will likely live a much healthier and enjoyable life. But no liberty advocate says "he must". That's why liberty is different --- in fact opposite of all other theories.
This thread started out worrying whether liberty advocates even know what to do if somehow they managed to "flat out win". The reason this is a big worry is... that the vast majority of even the very best liberty advocates advocate massively insane ideas (like men smearing ink on paper can legitimately obligate millions of others for centuries). They really MUST understand how insane the entire "constitution" argument fundamentally is... or they will create something horrible and unworkable, and ready to be dominated by predators in a matter of weeks, months or years.
PS: The other utterly bogus notion that becomes obvious upon honest reflection (but only if you think about it for awhile), is the inherent corruption of moving to some continent that has already been occupied for tens or hundreds of thousands of years - and then imposing a system upon them. That is not liberty. That is not ethical. That is not honest. And especially when you examine the "system" (setup, conventions) the native american people had... you realize theirs was more liberty oriented than anything the gringos did after they arrived.
For several million years it has been beneficial for survival to be part of a familial tribe. With the advent of farming, herding, and specialization of labor, it made being a member of an ever larger ingroup more beneficial for survival.
Both of these, the hunter-gatherer/liberals and the pharaonic/conservatives, are innately obedient to social organizations that they believe are able to best promote their survival. And survival is arguably the strongest motivating force.
So most are not specifically obligating themselves to the constitution, but what it creates: the State.