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Europe Folds As Putin Tells It To Pay Ukraine's Gazprom Bill, Or Else

Tyler Durden's picture


Another day ending in "y" means another day in which Putin plays the G(roup of most insolvent countries)-7 like a fiddle.

The latest: Europe should provide aid to Ukraine to ensure uninterrupted natural-gas deliveries to the region, President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman said as reported by Bloomberg.

"Russia is the only country helping Ukraine’s economy with energy supplies that are not paid for,"  Dmitry Peskov told reporters today in Moscow,  commenting on President Vladimir Putin’s letter yesterday to 18 European heads of state. “The letter is a call to immediately review this situation, which is absurd on the one hand and critical on the other.


Or, as we explained yesterday, Russia is quite happy to keep the EU gas flowing... as long as Ukraine has enough gas in storage to assure Gazprom it won't syphon off gas destined for Europe. So how much gas does Ukraine need to pre-stock? About $4-5 billion worth. The problem is that Ukraine doesn't have a dime to spend on gas.

So putting the question aside if Ukraine will or won't import even one bcf of Russian gas ever again (thanks to some fracking or US natgas exporting magic), what Putin just said is that if Europe wants an uninterrupted supply of gas it better find a way to fund Ukraine to the tune of up to $5 billion, or else the gas may just get shut off.

And guess what: Putin is about to win yet again:  

European Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger is working on a plan to help Ukraine pay some of its gas bills to Russia, he told Austria's ORF radio on Friday, saying there was "no reason to panic" about Russian gas supplies to Europe.


"We are in close contact with Ukraine and its gas company to ensure that Ukraine remains able to pay and the debts that the gas company has to Gazprom do not rise further," he said, adding he would meet Ukraine's energy and foreign ministers on Monday.


"I am preparing a solution that is part of the aid package that the IMF, the European Union and the World Bank is giving to Ukraine and from which payment for open bills will be possible."

The chass game continues: Putin X+1 - Pidgeons 0


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Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:04 | 4647217 H. Perowne
H. Perowne's picture

Need a translator. Russian for "stick the knife in and break it off".

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:06 | 4647234 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

The old guys would say that "Russia has Europe by the short hairs."

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:14 | 4647276 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Europe now waxes itself hairless because that's the way the bankers like it.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:26 | 4647298 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

So... Another EU Basket Case Country Gets Added To The
EU Welfare Rolls...

The Financial Shackles Of The IMF And Wirld Bank Makes Another Appearance.
Ukraine Joins Greece And the Gang With Their Hands Extended

Yeees... All Is Oh So Well In EU-Land...


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:34 | 4647366 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Vlad teh pwnerer.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:42 | 4647397 greyghost
greyghost's picture

notice how well europe responds when Putin talks their the fact that the russians want to be paid for supplies and services rendered is the only thing the europeans understand.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:48 | 4647423 asteroids
asteroids's picture

What will they do when he demands d gold or silver for payment in advance?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:07 | 4647506 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

The chass game continues: Putin X+1 - Pidgeons 0 

Excellent comment Tyler!! X is going to be a large number like the US debt pretty quickly.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:20 | 4647552 Manthong
Manthong's picture

" and the debts that the gas company has to Gazprom do not rise further,” 

You gotta’ love the way the credit money bankers play the game.

Note that they did not say anything about paying off the debt..

Because they don’t have any real money either.

 ( ?..  can I interest you in a nice < 5% bond in long term Greek debt that will never be paid off ?  )


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:28 | 4647616 furgheddubouddit
furgheddubouddit's picture

This is the European approach to all debt isn't it;  'forget about paying even a single cent off, just keep it ticking over'.

This will work fine until, in the Ukrainian case the gas supplies get shut off, or in the European case the bond markets collapse.

The timing of this ultimate outcome may be questionable, however it's inevitability isn't.

Tic toc tic toc.......

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:41 | 4647688 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"What will they do when he demands d gold or silver for payment in advance?"

Rush to sell Ukraine out in exchange for Xbillion BTUs?   Hey....when that's gone, Poland can always be traded for a decent discount on gas for a few years.   They're not out of options yet.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:18 | 4649222 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

It 's a national day of mourning in Poland - they really hoped that Gazprom will shut down flow through the Yamal-1 pipeline. Poland pays 30% above average price on long term contract and now they can easily replace any Gazprom gas from other sources (from West via brand new infrastructure). Another chance lost to invalidate the long term Gazprom contract.

I will repeat - and you can Google the facts if you can - Poland is right now totally independent in terms of energy. Besides - 90% of energy is generated from the coal - and they have abundant supplies of it for hundreds of years forward. 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:47 | 4650167 weburke
weburke's picture

"independent" hmmm, poland had its govt killed on the ground and blamed it on an air crash, and the independent movement died. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:34 | 4650239 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Have you taken meds today? The topic is energy and gas in case you missed it. I have clearly refered to energy indepedency. I know what you are refering to but it was an air crash. You question even this? What caused it may be subject to controversy forever. I have my opinion on it but I am not 100% sure. Looks like you are one of these simpletons that knows everything 100%. PiS -right?

You are out of topic. Check your meds again.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 08:23 | 4650650 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

He saw the same video I did - survivors being shot on the ground and a cameraman scared shitless.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:50 | 4650171 Seer
Seer's picture

"Besides - 90% of energy is generated from the coal - and they have abundant supplies of it for hundreds of years forward. "

Maybe if they sit on it...

If you wish to make your numbers(?) meaningful you'll have to include a consumption rate.  And if it's not static then be prepared for that abundance to not be all that abundant.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:10 | 4650208 dunce
dunce's picture

I believe you know the facts , but what is that average price you refer to? They can not break the contract but can they do some arbitrage?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:44 | 4650246 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

They did arbitrage it. In 2012 they got out of court settlement - for $525/tcm iirc. It's still 30% above what Germans pay - after the arbitrage. If you have more accurate numbers then please let me know. They (Polish) would be soooo happy if Gazprom breaks the contract like they threatened recently. The era of these old style take-or-pay contracts is over. Welcome to modern natgas marketplace. The spot price will rule the future energy markets because they are diversified now.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:45 | 4647699 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Its the US government's approach to debt as well. Forget about paying it off, has the US ever even paid down thier debt (more than 10%-20% from peak, not 1 or 2 years of near break even) in the past 100 years? The answer is no.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:42 | 4648121 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

We have never actually paid any debt off. The statistics Keynesians like to site regarding after WWII, when our debt went down by a good bit was only our debt as a percentage to GDP, we didn't actually pay debt off. And the Gingrich/Clinton balanced budget thing they like to say we had for a year or two was just accounting gimmicks, mainly how we were using SS money, that was a myth too, it was never actually balanced. And our GAAP debt, the one that matters, goes up 5-6 trillion a year.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:53 | 4650176 Seer
Seer's picture

The Gingrich/Clinton era was about bubbles, in addition to adding other gimics.

As long as  we insist on operating our existence based on perpetual growth (on a finite planet) we will NEVER pay off our debts.  Compounding eventually kills the future, as there is assuredly at point at which the infinite growth of interest/debt is derailed by the finite world.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:45 | 4647703 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

it is the current global approach to all debt owed by sovereigns and other important people.  for students and the working poor, not so much.

ukraine might have some hope of paying its bills had the cia not stolen all its gold and most of its foreign reserves ("safekeeping").  like iraq and libya, first they take your gold, then they kill you.  who wouldn't want a world run this way?. 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:24 | 4647596 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Poor ukranians, cannot get a break.

Remember the real holocaust...

Ask who really really  did this?

Bugger all heartless F!#@$%sticks...Zio, Neo whatever...


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:31 | 4647637 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

I dunno abt Zio or Neo, but I know that it was a government that did the holodomor. Down with them all I say!


ps: saw your TED talk, really enjoyed it

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:16 | 4647809 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

in deed and word Roryb. And thanks for the good words re. TEDx :-)

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:20 | 4648040 centerline
centerline's picture

(nevermind... found it!)  I am a moron.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:37 | 4648097 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:44 | 4648133 centerline
centerline's picture

Yeah - I got it!  ha ha.  See my post below.  I wrote the one above before watching the video actually.  I had previously asked for link... but managed to Google it myself (yeah, I know LMGTFY).

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 15:59 | 4648786 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

For anyone interested in said TEDx talk...

12 minutes and good speakers if available...


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 17:38 | 4649158 Overfed
Overfed's picture

That was pretty good. I think I'll watch it again when I'm not surrounded by distractions.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:34 | 4649343 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

So cool.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:47 | 4649381 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

ORI, I just had to log in to thank you for the videolink. That was very inspiring... and funny at the same time ;-)

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 02:42 | 4650400 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Everyone above, thanks so much :-)

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:45 | 4648125 centerline
centerline's picture

That was awesome ORI.  Really, really enjoyed it.  Going to share this with my family tonight.

I am laughing now because of calling myself a moron and then hearing you mention this word in your talk.  ha ha.  How ironic.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:55 | 4648183 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

:-) I'm telling you centerline, there is something to this more-on Less-on thing! 

And yes, you are a MORE-ON!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:03 | 4648221 centerline
centerline's picture

Working on it!

For what it is worth, I use the Centerline name not because of a funny road thing (just seemed to work for ZH).  It is actually a term from Wing Chun, which I am sure you know always has surface level meanings like the centerline of combat (which can be further broken down into the centerline of each person and the centerline of combat itself)... but also reach much further... to balance, harmony, etc. (internal and external).  Neat stuff.  I stink at it all... but I figure it is the journey that matters.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:10 | 4648247 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The interesting thing is that we've had this exact same discussion on your avatar a couple of years ago. :-)

Check this out...


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:35 | 4648371 centerline
centerline's picture

My memory is not what it used to be it seems!  Bookmarked your site.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:47 | 4650169 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Hey V!

Enjoyed that TedX, just glad it wasn't TedTripleXXX. I'm going to need to fly out to Mumbai and lift that first instrument from you when you're not looking.



Sat, 04/12/2014 - 09:13 | 4650694 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

;-) Just make sure it's when I'm not looking HLS, because I do know how to swing it!!!

I will gladly buy you a kingfisher and swap ZH and other tales though....

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:19 | 4650220 Seer
Seer's picture

I too would like to thank your for your talk.  And in an ironic kind of way, it's really about talk -WORDS- being insufficient to describe what really IS.

The real communication was with TOUCH.  That is, the driver was touch, as from it the sounds were then emitted.  I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that what you really unlocked was touch- That is the connection you made.  Prior to this point you had been coming at things as sight and sound, things which came to/at you, more of something else than of oneself.

Anyway, nice touch :-)

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:36 | 4650326 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Seer, thanks and that is indeed a very good observation. I've been trying to bring myself to an original haptic state, what I call the "first touch" state, always fresh. Haptic guitar playing, haptic cooking...everything...


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:01 | 4647765 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Yeah, I saw your TEDx talk too, thought it was excellent.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:16 | 4647811 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thanks Big Jim...

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:04 | 4648226 Hephaestus
Hephaestus's picture

I saw your TEDx talk as well. The ditty you play at the end has tremendous Power. Great work.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:12 | 4648258 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thanks Heph. Long time no see?

That is a raag (Indian Classical Piece) with no name. That is the opening, warming up phrase.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 17:14 | 4649078 Hephaestus
Hephaestus's picture

Have you a complete recording?  It is so close to perfection and the multi dimesional aspects you created are like nothing I have ever heard before. It felt like Hendrix with peace, clarity and purpose. I also felt drawn to listen. Does the melody have no name or so many that none stick.

Long time no see? Nice bodhi joke.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 01:39 | 4650331 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Heph, I'm going to tell people that today, that somebody saw me play and Hendrix even popped into their mind (in whatever way) when describing it.

I have an album in the making. You can bet I'll announce it here :-) As a music maker, good to hear.


Sat, 04/12/2014 - 06:49 | 4650566 Flagit
Flagit's picture

well, at least you're not in a cave anymore : )

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:36 | 4647881 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Be careful, ORI...Jews have cornered the Holocau$t and genocide markets.  Trade marks and all that.


Who was really responsible?  Lazar Kaganovich (Kagan - Jewish) organised it and was implemented by Collectivisation Units each headed by a Political Commissar, almost all of whom were Jewish.  It's fascinating by the way to see how expertly this has been sanitized on Wikipedia.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:47 | 4648433 Not Too Important
Not Too Important's picture

The Trotsky Communist Jews who were eventually thrown out by Stalin, who went west and whose children are now neo-Cons, planning for the same singular world government that Trotsky and his backers wanted.

At least the Fukushima radiation will kill 'em all in the US within the next few decades - hopefully sooner, and their children first. No more generations of this bullshit. This is the silver lining to the Fuku omnicide.

This isn't a battle of Good vs. Evil anymore. It's all over, all of it, only at a very slow pace.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:21 | 4649300 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

And, of course, Trotsky (born Bronshtein), was from Ukraine.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 06:01 | 4650534 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I wonder why the tribe leaders feel the need to be hated.

Read the story of how Poland was taken in the 17-1800s. Fascinating story....

Very strange....

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:51 | 4647931 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Ukranians are being held hostage like Judith between caught between Gunny and Jack Black.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 07:40 | 4650597 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

What do you mean the "real" holocaust? The starvation of Ukraine by Stalin - the Holodomor - was indeed horrific. However, it in no way invalidates the Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis. And Ukrainians composed some of the most vicious Nazi death squads, and were favored as concentration camp guards.

My grandfather's parents, along with six of his brothers and sisters, his uncle and his cousins, were murdered during the Holocaust in an area which had been eastern Poland. One brother survived Auschwitz and made it to the end of the war - a stick figure who had learned to bury his feet in the mud so it was harder to lift him, when lined up before the mostly Ukrainian guards to see if he was still healthy enough to work or should be gassed.

You should read Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands" as it explains both these events - the Holodomor and the Holocaust - in a full context. It's also very instructive as to what's going on in Ukraine right now. In any case, read some real history before you start implying that one was "real" and the other was not.

You have no idea what you're talking about, but it's highly offensive to people whose families were killed in the Holocaust. It's also absolutely wrong to blame "Zionists" for what happened under Stalin or what's going on in Ukraine now. I don't think you even understand the term "Zionism". It implies that the Jews needed a homeland -- a view that the survivors of the Holocaust came to.

So good for you for playing your instrument and having your TED talk but you should learn something before you simply throw around statements that blame Jews for every problem in the world. It may seem acceptable and popular on this forum but it's down to a handful of racists, it's offensive and unacceptable.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 08:53 | 4650677 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Not to be insensitive, but have you read any David Irving?

Hiiiighly recommended.You cannot deny the other side fo th ecoin either. It's just like India Pakistan and our forced separation by the brits and the millions who died.

Our own stooge, Gandhi, helped perpetrate it. By the way, millions died.


Who to believe? My own mother ran away from there as a 3 year old. See how it works? 

I'm assuming from your tone that you are Jewish. Just understand that you do not own the rights to the world's sympathy.

Since the Jews obviously won WWII (they got their own country), who do assume wrote the history of that war? 


Relax, play an instrument and give a TED talk if you can.


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:11 | 4647527 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Obama and his Eurotrash Zionist whores will offer to pay in hashtags.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:49 | 4647923 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Played to perfection. 

1. Russia gets the EU to pay the Ukraine's IOU.

2. Germany gains a new understanding of just how vulnerable their economy is w/o Russia's natural gas.

3. Germany, the only player with $$, but without Au (still in US vaults) is soon to realize that they will need that Au to pay for that gas.  I wonder with all the spying as well, if they are moving away from the US?  Do they really need us anymore?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:25 | 4650228 Seer
Seer's picture

"they will need that Au to pay for that gas. "

They've still got viable exports, exports that'll have to shift toward Russia and China.

Long trade routes will become increasingly more tenuous.  In the end it all regionalizes.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:13 | 4650421 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I hope that you are correct and we do not see war because that will be the end of us all.


Regional trade will be more fuel efficient in a depleted energy world. I do foresee that as well, Seer, if war does not kill us off before that realization.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 06:51 | 4650568 Flagit
Flagit's picture

but without Au (still in US vaults)



Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:07 | 4650474 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

If the EU insists on following the US edicts, they deserve whatever thumbscrews Putin puts on'em!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:42 | 4647398 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

time for another pink line....

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:07 | 4647501 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

If Putin was collecting a debt from me, I'd pay it too.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:08 | 4647509 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Better than a broken leg.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:36 | 4647661 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

Or a cup of tea laced with the rare radioactive isotope polonium-210.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:16 | 4647810 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

That's not the way this plays.

1) $104 WTI now

2) When the first loans arrive at Ukraine, this will mean nothing. 

3) When the SECOND loans arrive, it will become clear that most of them are to service the first loans, in exactly the same way as is done in Greece.  They get money and debt service is first priority -- except

4) Russia won't allow it.  First priority will be gas.  This means, and the IMF and EU realize this, the flow of money from them to Russia will never stop.  Ukraine won't recover.  They have nothing.  The vaunted agriculture is thinking from 80 years ago.  They have powered irrigation now and potash expense.  All of that comes from Russia, aka oil.

5) They are fucked.  Russia was carrying them.  The EU and IMF will be looking for an exit soon.  The Euromaiden wackos will be begging for asylum before it's all returned to Russia.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 16:06 | 4648807 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Regarding 5) many US top leaders are being extremely pro-active and pre-emptive and are leaving now or yesterday.

The top brass may all be exiting in 2014.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:12 | 4647987 Tale2cities
Tale2cities's picture

If i were a Ukranian,and Ihated Putin,I would blow up the gas lines to Europe.
That might just happen.. Pay back for the Holodomor.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 16:15 | 4648827 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Take a better look.   Russia is actually attempting to protect all the lines and to complete the new southern line through/bottom of the Black Sea.

From a military perspective Russia is 100% correct and will protect their source of 50% of their export income.

Why do you think this is coming to a head ?

Russia prefers to do their own protection versus waiting for one day NATO (really 'nada') maybe getting around to it.


This is major immediate issue for both European and Russian survival...before next winter...only 6 months from now.

In a few months the whole region will probably calm down, but of course Russia may also need to control the nuclear/oil/gas generated electric power to Crimea...but otherwise Russia is just protecting its own interests.


Russia is protecting its interests and 'taking charge' of the situation before the Western children wreck everything and it all goes "poof".

I don't think Putin takes the West seriously these days since there is a poor track record of defense.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 16:26 | 4648886 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

You don't know what you are talking about.

Those pipes deliver gas to people of Hungary, to Czechs, Slovaks, Germans and Poles and others. With blowing up the gas lines the government of Ukraine would see in a second tens of millions of angry people demanding Russia to step in and kick ass those stupid Ukrainian fascists governement puppets licking US assholes.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:17 | 4650483 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, now you're thinking like a chessplayer!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:37 | 4649656 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They are getting played by a master, a true master.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:18 | 4647300 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

Look, EU get's to much power. In the interest of the US it is better to have some issues in Europe so that US won't become the doggy of EU. So they try to inflict some war. First they tried it in Bosnia, now Ukraine. Don't forget, In Bonsia the Muslim terrorists killed serbian people and sent their heads in a box to Mladic. That was in 91/92. That made them angry, it wasn't the fault of the serbs to protect their own citizens. Nato bombed there.

I hope the NATO , US and EU wake up and leave here from the region before it's to late. Mr Putin has everything under controll. No need for intervention or any misleading journalism. Leave our region fucking alone!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:23 | 4647315 Serfs Up
Serfs Up's picture

Sounds like it's time to panic.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:39 | 4647387 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Not yet. IMF and world bank still have some money. After they are broke it will be time to panic. Of course as someone once said. Panic now and avoid the rush. He might have been a prepper. 

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:20 | 4647561 Element
Element's picture



"Not yet. IMF and world bank still have someone else's money"

fixed it for ya

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:39 | 4647674 strannick
strannick's picture

How can you ever go broke when your digitizing dollars?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:49 | 4647698 Element
Element's picture

When no one wants them in trade exchange anymore.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:22 | 4647824 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Europe now waxes itself hairless because that's the way the bankers like it."

With the added bonus of anal bleaching for that nice, clean look and smell.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 15:31 | 4648672 John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

I'm suddenly having a Bill Hicks flashback

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:25 | 4649312 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Oh dear oh dear...

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 15:15 | 4648586 X_mloclaM
X_mloclaM's picture

LaVorgna said 'degree', that counts

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 23:27 | 4650135 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

IOW, the bankers like naked shorts.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:05 | 4650470 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

In essence, someone (CIA?) broke the Ukraine, now someone has to step up and fix it, but the EU/US/UK doesn't want it to be Russia!  C'mon Putin, stick some more bamboo slivers under their fingernails, they absolutely deserve every one!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:15 | 4647282 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

This is actually a great opportunity for Europe to move away from harmful fossil fuels and start investing in green sustainable energy sources. Never before in history have the incentives for countries to invest in green technology been greater. Climate change and energy independence are now one problem, and the need for action is greater than ever.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:18 | 4647296 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

They will, but it will take a decade to make a dent in lost Nat gas supplies.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:49 | 4649376 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Abundant supplies are available from Norway and Algeria. WTF you are talking about?

EU imports 130 bcm from Russia.They use 421 bcm overall.

"Europe has built 22 import terminals with six more under construction, which could handle around 220 billion cubic meters (BCM) of natural gas imports. Keep in mind that number is compared to a total consumption in the EU of 421 BCM in 2013, of which Russia supplied around 130 BCM. And electricity generation counted for one quarter of gas usage, some of which can be substituted for coal or nuclear in a pinch."

Norway exports 100 bcm (and slowly declining) and Algeria exports 55 bcm (out of 85 bcm total and inreasing now). Both Norway and Algeria can fill the gap if Gazprom goes to hell. The  LNG terminals in Western Europe are grossly underutilized. New LNG terminals are coming online in: Poland, Lithuania and Estonia. All these countries pay very high prices for the Gazprom gas so for them it will be cheaper source.

LNG can be brought from Qatar, Algeria, Nigeria, Norway right now. Within few years Australia will be the biggest LNG player which will certainly suppress the prices as they have an ocean of gas available for export. Even if they supply the Asian markets this will make more cheap LNG available to EU as it is a global marketplace. 

After 2009 when Gazprom cut off the supply, the EU-27 in aggregate started to decrease their dependence on natgas. The usage of natgas  drops 5% every year and the gradient of decline is increasing. Gazprom is facing dropping demand, declining market share and falling prices. 

These are hard facts that are easy to verify - unless your dream is to lick Putin's balls. I hope your dream will come true :-)

To all Putin ball lickers - the fact is that Gazprom can disappear right now and there will be very few tears in the world and in EU in particular.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:23 | 4647313 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

The only problems with your plan:

1) Ukraine doesn't have any money for windmills either.

2) It may take more than two weeks for the development of enough energy to replace the natural gas.

In other words, you're just a hack who seizes any opportunity to proselytize your religious beliefs.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:15 | 4647547 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

That Ukraine doesn't have any money is borne out by the 40 countries that are chipping in 1.5 billion Euros to seal off cherynobyl with a massive sarcopha tomb.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:49 | 4648447 Not Too Important
Not Too Important's picture

The first one didn't last 30 years. The new, second one is only designed to last 100 years. The radiation inside is lethal for 10 billion years.


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:30 | 4649329 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

No - between 88 and 24000 year ecological half life, depending on the type of plutomium. For the caesium, about 30 (albeit at Chernobyl it appears to be persisting longer tthan anticipated).

Still plenty long enough.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:50 | 4649390 Not Too Important
Not Too Important's picture

The main ingredient of nuclear fuel rods is U-235, with a half-life of 704 million years. As it begins to 'decompose', it breaks down into new 'daughter' isotopes, with their own new half-lives. Radioactive isotopes actually get hotter initially, before they start to 'decompose'. The molten cores at Chernoby and Fukushima are getting hotter, not colder. It could be argued that the cores at Fukushima are still 'fissioning', as radiioactive iodine, with a very short half-life, is still being detected thousands of miles away, now over three years later.

All plenty long enough to generate a full bio-collapse.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:25 | 4647319 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I used to think you were serious.  Now after the above you're just here for the lulz. 

You have to be one of the most committed trolls I've ever seen.  If you were to get your low IQ schtick to the same level as your shitlib shtick, you would be the best troll I've ever seen on the interest.  You've got some improving.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:28 | 4647334 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

MDB is a comic genius. Just open your mind and grok the sarcasm. Let it soak in like warm sunshine....

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:25 | 4647592 ILLILLILLI
ILLILLILLI's picture

It's the "Theater of the Absurd" with a fine edge...not everyone gets it.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:40 | 4647679 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Yea I'm fascinated some don't get it; these same people probably read "A Modest Proposal" and thought it was an actual, serious, proposal.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:26 | 4650428 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

And I just ate those broiled babies? wasn't serious???


I guess I had best start wearing those rubber things and get rid of the misstresses.


Is /sarc needed?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:59 | 4648199 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed. MDB is a must read. I love his sarcasm. How can people not undestand it? Is that due to the American Public Education System? In most countries MDB would be recognized at once as a clever witty sarc master.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:08 | 4648244 centerline
centerline's picture

You have been around for awhile JB to remember some real good ones here that have come and gone.  I miss most of them.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:27 | 4650430 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Satire...satire...satire...not necessarily sarcasm.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 20:50 | 4649703 August
August's picture

Truly the greatest comic genius of our age.

He's far beyond Goofy, and even Obama.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:29 | 4650434 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

The best follow up post to this line of MillionDollarBonus Love will be if he replies, "I was serious."



Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:59 | 4647463 Der Wille Zur Macht
Der Wille Zur Macht's picture

The joke's on you if it took that long to figure out my friend.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:08 | 4647508 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture


BTW - You weren't supposed to capitalize "Zur"

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:06 | 4647993 Wizard of Ozman
Wizard of Ozman's picture

The "Real Joke" is the Millions of people, that think we can release 100 of Millions of years of stored CO2, and not effect our planet. Natural or Not, this Fish bowl is getting hotter and you are the Frog. So I guess I don't get the hummor of this one MDB,Or are you just a Troll. Normally you have me Laughing.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:52 | 4648457 Not Too Important
Not Too Important's picture

Worse is millions of years of stored CH4. But there's no ozone layer to speak of anymore, so maybe all the bad stuff will float off into space.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 00:26 | 4650230 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Please don't be mad. Just go away.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:36 | 4650439 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Let me ask you a question...


Since the CO2 in the atmosphere acts as a Heat Reflector, trapping heat in our atmosphere...


Wouldn't the same CO2 reflect Solar Heat Radiation and not allow it to the Earth's surface in the first place?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:28 | 4647330 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

If someone knows how to get those huge expensive white windmills turning on calm days.

Now would be a great time to speak up...


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:58 | 4647452 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Just google the Quantum Energy Generator.  The answers have existed for some time actually, they just don't want us to use them.  Like 100 MPG carbeurators.  Do a patent search.  

As for windmills, they are a great tech to use at the point of need.  (On top of your house).  Not a great idea for the monolithic design so they control it.  All green tech really should be used by the end user and not by the energy cartel.  

This is also why solar panels never really get much beyond 20% effeciency.  

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:21 | 4647580 Bunders
Bunders's picture

"Do a patent search."

Right, because if it's patented then it's effective? Because no one in the patent office ever got bored of their shit job and stamped "approved" on a massive pile of dog turd, just for the lulz?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:29 | 4647619 Undecided
Undecided's picture

One Word Tesla!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:23 | 4647595 DadzMad
DadzMad's picture

Shit, the ones by my house are seldom spinning even when it's windy.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:43 | 4647696 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Hook the turbine up to a series of diesel generators and fire them up when the wind slows.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:56 | 4647745 jiggerjuice
jiggerjuice's picture

Looks... interesting. Any engineers reading ZH? Does this look anything like what it claims to be? They even have a BOM specced out already... Pretty handy, if I could do more than plug in an RJ45 to a jack in terms of electrical engineering.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:48 | 4647920 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Oddly enough, this is right in my field. Sadly time is not my friend today, a rapid glance showes me this is nothing special and the laws of physics are still the same. It is no miracle device as all laws of energy and thermo dynamic apply. Smarter men may comment but in a glance I see nothing there of consequence.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:43 | 4648130 jiggerjuice
jiggerjuice's picture

Thank you. I asked asked Reddit, and they said pretty much the same thing.

I mean, the girl literally says after the initial start-up, the machine can self-power the 1000 watt input with the 10kva output... I just had to make sure my eyes hadn't gone retarded. OP of this comment is officially... not only not an EE, but literally eats internet shit for all meals, apparently, without ten seconds of extra research.

I dunno... ZH is getting tiring. A bit too much drivel.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:57 | 4648191 centerline
centerline's picture

Called over-unity devices.  None exist.  Unless someone can turn the world of physics on it's ear somehow, it is not feasible to output more energy than is input to a system.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:09 | 4649263 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Physics has been effectively dead in the water since the Manhattan Project ended. That timing is significant.

Maxwell's Equations are the key, some say. The ones we don't use.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:41 | 4649366 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Well, I can say for sure that the QEG referenced here ain't gonna generate any power over unity, in fact, I don't see it working at all. I took a look at the Hopegirl blog site. It's a scam to get ignorant people to give away money.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 03:42 | 4650442 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Disagree. The Applied Physics research may have slowed somewhat. But the Physicists continue working.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 18:03 | 4649228 Overfed
Overfed's picture



Here are few things I noticed at a glance.

I'm not sure why they would spec. a DC motor and even indicate polarity, but then run it on an AC line. Not sure how that's supposed to work. A variac won't control a DC motor, as they only work (properly) with DC current. A variac hooked to DC would burn up.  A variac also won't control the speed of an AC motor, as the speed of a synchronous AC motor (a Tesla invention, BTW) is set by line frequency, not voltage.

Not gonna get much of a spark across that exicter (WTF?) gap with a cap and a coil in parallel with it. Also, capacitors won't store energy in an AC system.

Pretty easy to pick apart without even getting into the physics and laws of thermodynamics.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 17:10 | 4649062 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

I'v got it, we can use gas powered turbines to turn those windmills on calm days........oh, forget it.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 17:58 | 4649230 css1971
css1971's picture

You run them when the wind blows and compress air with the excess capacity. Then when the wind stops you use the compressed air to power generators?

Do I win a prize?

It's called CAES.

However air isnt very dense and doesn't store so much energy, so a better solution is to pump water out of a hole in the ocean.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:32 | 4647351 damicol
damicol's picture

You could alway fuck off to the Ukraine and spout your drivel into the gas tamks.

Or is the shit you spout not green enough


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:50 | 4647927 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

For some reason I like that comment. My kind of language.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:36 | 4647372 intotheblack
intotheblack's picture

You forgot the '/sarcasm' tag, yo. Thought you were touchingly earnest there for a moment.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:51 | 4647436 free_lunch
Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:56 | 4647742 StupidEarthlings
StupidEarthlings's picture

Climate change..


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:21 | 4647819 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

dude all this time and still some peopel don't get your sarcasm. 


maybe that's part of the joke?

you are like cain doomed to travel forever, as you are doomed to sarc until everyone finally gets it. which will never happen. 


the news coming out of germany about their 'environmental' decisions are amusing. the country is stuck between scylla (u.s. doe nuclear energy shadow policy trying to keep japan and germany tied up in subjugation for ww3 ) and charybdiss (russia's gas chokehold) 

it occurs that despite most people thinking german environmental policy is a self directed ideological movement on its face-------that this movement is in fact supported and funded by CIA and british agencies want germany as far away from the future possibility of making their own nukes. 

furthermore, the more dependent germany is on russian gas, the more the german's can eventually be played OFF the germans. 


the key is to keep a nation dependent on others via trade . the less self sufficient a nation is, the more they can be entangled and embroiled and played off of the situation in a conflict-counterconflict cycle. 


for every who realizes russia is strategically prying germany away from the west as china is trying to do with south korea----

just remember, the u.s. has massive amounts of troops and bases in germany and south korea. so the u.s. more than anyone is influencing these countries environmental policies for strategic reasons. and that is all done behind closed doors.


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:33 | 4647866 BandGap
BandGap's picture

This is what Spain did about ten years ago. Did wonders for their economy.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 17:49 | 4649199 css1971
css1971's picture

For those who don't get it.

Germany (till last year) was the world leader in solar panel installations, 4th largest in wind turbines  (Denmark being the largest) and in housing which requires zero energy to heat...

i.e Europe as a whole is "all in" sustainable energy. Denmark is the posterchild for this. Problem being is it takes decades to replace the infrastructure and far longe for the housing stock.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:19 | 4650485 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yet, here you are, needlessly wasting electrons!  Think of the cheeldren, (wo)man!

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:20 | 4647283 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:26 | 4647321 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

While funding Russia's planned expansion of their military capabilities. Well done Vlad. Improving Russia's position in the world with very little violence. Seems to be the opposite of the US: much violence and bloodshed with a negative return on investment. (E.g. $5 bil on Ukraine to hand Crimea and east Ukraine to the Russians. Well done Kerry, nuland, et al. )

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 12:08 | 4647791 KickIce
KickIce's picture

They don't give a damn about ROI, their only concern is trading real assets for green toilet paper.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:16 | 4647285 SofaPapa
SofaPapa's picture

The relationship is pretty simply defined: would you rather be in freezing weather with gas to burn or with paper to pay for it?  The answer to that question tells us who has the power.  And it is a preview to the equivalent questions which are on deck all over the world.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:50 | 4647430 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

Is Europe going to bleach its taint also ?

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 11:19 | 4647564 crazzziecanuck
crazzziecanuck's picture

What's the expression: he who pays the piper gets to call the tune?  Russia might get money but these new Ukrainian debts from their European friends will come with many, many strings.

So, on the contrary, this undermines Moscow's position because financial dependency is how the West/IMF operates to control nations.


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 13:39 | 4648106 MarkAntony
MarkAntony's picture

I hope no one here is forgetting the the "other" pipeline...

So, Ukraine gas situation is a little more complicated than EU gas deliveries...

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 15:07 | 4648538 PacOps
PacOps's picture

And/or from the Vietnam era: "When ya got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds follow".

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 15:23 | 4648555 PacOps
PacOps's picture

The old guys would say that "Russia has Europe by the short hairs."


And/or from the Vietnam era: "When ya got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds follow".

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 17:29 | 4649130 JR
JR's picture

These 18 European heads of state are so used to dealing with these puppet politicians that you can just roll 'em. Give them a new Mercedes and that pretty much takes care of it.

Putin’s a different story.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:08 | 4647240 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

Russia had paying 10's of billions to Ukraine for support, EU only promisses. No surprising Russia has enough. I would have lost my patience earlier.

Shows also how Mr Putin handles the situation. A true leader. Not like EU or obama making hasty decissions.

Also, Russia doesn't spill blood of people, everywhere where the US  and EU are there is blood spilling. Once can only hope Russia takes over more countries under it's protection.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:13 | 4647257 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture
Message from the President of Russia to the leaders of several European countries



NATO’s Russian troop build-up satellite images ‘show 2013 drills’

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:15 | 4647271 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Pretty simple -  Russia subsidized Ukraine gas when they benefited from a mutual relationship. That relationship is no longer beneficial, so they are no longer willing to subsidize Ukraine.

Try not paying your home electric or gas bill and see what happens.

Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:35 | 4647368 comob
comob's picture

Wow - what memory your comment provoked.

There is a saying russia for exactly what you wrote!

My friend Yuri (a soviet-era emigre not a "russian") used to say (in translation because I can't recall the russia for it) when someone was adding insult to injury or worse:

"Don't twist the knife" 

Meaning, he once explained, after you have stabbed someone in the gut you need to twist the knife and stir the intestines so that even if they don't bleed to death they will die of sepsis.  Obama and crew are way over their heads on this one and the sad part (or happy part, depending on your persuasion) is that Europe will end up paying (freezing) for our learning curve.


Fri, 04/11/2014 - 10:39 | 4647385 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

? ??????? ?? ????, ??? ??? ????? ?? ???????, ?? ? ????, ??? ???????????? ??????-??????????, ????? ?????????? ??????? ?? ??????? ????????.

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