Russia Tells Ukraine It Won't "Accept" Force Against Demonstrators

Tyler Durden's picture

Ukraine may have drawn its own red line overnight by saying it will send "special forces" into the latest east Ukraine city captured by "pro-Russia separatists" as we just reported, but Russia wasted no time in explaining how it would deal with it. Bloomberg cites Russian foreign minister Lavrov who stated that, "Russia Won’t Accept Ukraine Force Versus Demonstrators."

Threats to use force against pro- Russian activists in southeast Ukraine are “unacceptable,” Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says in phone call today with Ukrainian counterpart Andriy Deshchytsia, Russian Foreign Ministry says in e-mailed statement. Lavrov added that he sees “no grounds” to accuse Russia of sending agents to destabilize situation in Ukraine.

From the Russian foreign ministry, google translated:

Telephone conversation by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine A.B.Deschitsey

April 12 at the initiative of the Ukrainian side had a telephone conversation between Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation Sergey Lavrov and Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine A.B.Deschitsey.

During the conversation A.B.Deschitsa tried to lay the responsibility for the deterioration of the situation in the South and South- East Ukraine on Russia. He argued that in these regions there are some Russian agents and allegedly some of them had already been arrested.

In response, Lavrov stated that there were no grounds for such assertions. He recalled that similar claims against Russia could be heard from Washington, but we have not been presented specific facts.

 

On the Russian side emphasized the responsibility of the present authorities in Kiev for preventing any use of force in the South and South- East of Ukraine. A.B.Deschitse indicated on the unacceptability of Kiev constantly sounding threats to storm buildings occupied by protesters in Donetsk and Lugansk. Lavrov urged the Ukrainian side to act peacefully , through dialogue , with full consideration of the legitimate demands of the South and South- East of Ukraine , including the direct involvement of these regions in the process of constitutional reform.

 

In response to questions regarding the prospects for A.B.Deschitsy quadripartite meeting of the Russia- US-EU -Ukraine Russian minister noted that the preparation of this event as part of the content and on the format and timing continues to be discussed between Moscow and Washington

Ball is in Kiev's court.

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Two-bits's picture

It is already getting colder in Germany.

svayambhu108's picture

Hope the cold feet means cooler judgment.

graneros's picture

If those Ukranians didn'rt already know that Russia would not stand by and watch them open fire on their citizens then they are truly dumber than a box of rocks. If they think the US Cavalry is gonna come ridin' in they get extra stupid points. They either need to kiss the IMF's ass, cede Eastern Ukraine, or get their last will and testament updated. Those are their only options.

Oh regional Indian's picture

The dialouge of Globalpolitik for public consumption sounds like a fifth grader's fight in the school yard.

Meanwhile people die.

Newsflow from a twilight zone.

ori

graneros's picture

So when has it ever been different?

zerozulu's picture

IMHO. if you want to live in the river, be friendly with the crocodile.

 

 

 

 

US is a monster living in a far far away lake.

jeff montanye's picture

imo fewer will die in a russian invasion of east ukraine than, on average, died in the last three or four dozen more significant u.s. invasions since, say, korea.

take a look at this beauty.  ought to be on the wall of history classes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

McMolotov's picture

I called it "playground diplomacy" the other day.

This is possibly the lamest run-up to a world war in history.

Two-bits's picture

Instead of kids circling the two fighters we have nukes.

 

You sunk my battleship!

Anusocracy's picture

Well, government is the playground of the psychopaths.

moneybots's picture

 "This is possibly the lamest run-up to a world war in history."

 

the other ones were were pretty lame, too.  If it tops them, it is not by much.

HardlyZero's picture

Please.  The West, East and Kiev are all together on the same side.  It is a win-win-win for whichever side makes the debts 'good' or 'go away'.   If the West 'wins' then they will get the service contracts.  If the East wins then all previous debts are null and void paid by the Ukr land and contracts.   It is just a question who want's the M&A job, or wants to service the contracts.   

The natgas will flow no matter which side 'wins'. 

There will be no bullets...it is a business deal.

Everyone has velvet gloves and shadow boxing.

The only question is who will handle the shitty deal and has the most to gain, and wants the service contracts the most.

Many times (all the time?) something or someone needs to raise the energy, bring-in the money, to get something to happen (before next Winter).

THE SPICE MUST FLOW (and keep flowing before next Winter).

Element's picture

Whose citizens?

This is the problem, Moscow claiming that Ukrainians are really Russians.

No, they're Ukrainians, not Russian. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it except as an excuse.

They did the same thing in Georgia. It is not something to be encouraged, because this is escalation.

Vidar's picture

This is a perfect example of the tax-farm mentality. These people are sovereign individuals, not "Russians" or "Ukrainians". They are not owned by the thugs in Kiev or in Moscow. The whole concept of "you live in a territory that I claim to control thus you belong to me" needs to go. The concept that a group of people are "citizens" of a particular tax-farm and must remain so forever is absurd. All borders are meaningless lines on a map drawn by sociopaths.

Death to the nation-state!

Element's picture

Don't give me your anarchist crap excuse, I've read all that too. Agreeing with it as an ideal and doing it are two very different things. It'll be a triumph of freedum and liberty, we just have to survive the rancid squall of barbarous stupidity war and death squads and famine to get to the new paradise, but I'm up for it!!!

I believe!!!!

It should be fun, and if it doesn't work, there's a money-back garantee and icecream.

Anusocracy's picture

Some people want to join this ant colony, some people want to join that ant colony, and some people don't want to join any ant colony.

With religion, civilized people allow others to make their own choices, fanatics don't.

But just like with the religious fanatics, government fanatics like you are the problem.

Element's picture

Hey dickhead, I pointed out that escalation is not to be encouraged.

From that you call me a "government fanatic", which anyone whose paying attention knows I'm anything but.

But you are a clown.

Anusocracy's picture

Escalation occurs and expands because of the very existence of government. Government is nothing but use of force for control.

Besides, you are 'fanatic' in the defense of government force.

Look at your own post.

Element's picture

So? Govt is also responsible for every spilled drink in a bar escalating into a knife in the ribs?

No govt has nothing to do with escalation per sec. Escalation is the result of a lack of restraint by impulsive idiots who are not thinking clearly about where it will end up until its all to late to undo it and you are left with the consequences.

Hey, why don't you run around yelling, "FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!", and we can all enjoy the fire works.

Anusocracy's picture

No.

Escalation is 400 million dead at the hands of government in the 20th century. All the result of "a lack of restraint by idiots who are not thinking clearly about" what government is all about. You know, like you.

You must be proud of your beliefs.

Element's picture

I have none of the 'beliefs' that you some how interpret and merely assume. You read things into what people say rather than look at and stick to what was said.

I said that such escalation is not to be encouraged.

All the rest of your utter drivel was, both above and below this, was purely your furtive imagination receiving the copious overflows from your self-induced cerebral bowel movements. You are apparently incapable of following a basic conversations without trying to twist it into something other than what was said. So that's you done.

Anusocracy's picture

It was started by the US you stupid fuck.

The Ukrainians and Russians are VICTIMS of the US you stupid fuck.

Your thinking is inconsistent you stupid fuck.

Element's picture

Listen slow one, they are all bad, they are all 'evil', there are no 'goodies'. Putin would just as soon bomb you with a nuke as have one of his goons slice your throat open. You think a man like that is here to save a foreign pimple like you? He may end up butchering more people than Obama and Bush together have to date. But in the meantime you want to be his cheer-leader.

Silly men like you will never learn until it's much to late. It's just the way it is. And thankfully I don't even give a damn how it all turns out, as we are all dead men walking, at all times, from cradle to grave. And I fully intend to enjoy this ride to the very end. You want to make dumb choices and go to war, that great!

As I'll be thrilled to objectively point out how stupid all sides of it are - count on it.  :-D

Anusocracy's picture

I apologize.

I disallow the 'you s..... f... comment.

It was uncalled for.

jeff montanye's picture

imo element was currying altercation a little bit by using varying levels of sarcasm and then being surprised some people were taken in.  i have myself been sarcastic and am yet to use the /sarc tag (except present case).  it is a "dangerous" game and one shouldn't be too thin-skinned with misinterpretation, again imo.

Element's picture

Jeff, I was not being sarcastic, what I said was reasonable. All that's going on there is the anarchist brigade, who pretend to also be libertains, reacted to the very notion that a person has a citizenship, or is retained in borders, and laws apply in practice.

Now I have read all the Stefan Molyneux stuff, and I think the guy is awesome, quite a brilliant mind, but I also read and watched his stuff on practical anarchism, and it was very unconvinving, and I was far from compelled by what he considered viable and 'practical'.

So I know the spiel of that mindset, and I agree in much of it in principle, as I can with many points of view, but what I do know is the difference between an idea and its practice, and I know the formula is never adequate in the real world.

So I don't mind if an anarchist contingent want to go silly at me for speaking about how things will really work in that case if escalation is encouraged, I can serve it back OK too. And I can discuss calmly with anyone who wants to, and I don't hold grudges in online spats, I only ever give up on fools.

I meant what I said here.

Xibalba's picture

freedom and liberty.....Where can I find that?  

graneros's picture

Well it better be Baskin Robbins cause I ain't eating that crap made by those Progressive shitbirds Ben & Jerry.  NO that is not a Cherry Garcia stain on my shirt. Damn I need to start wearing a bib.

Omen IV's picture

There is NO legitmate government in Kiev - so anarchy declaration is impossible in Luganz - they have free reign to declare as separate state by default since the constitution was eliminated by the Fascist American Putch

you Putz!

rubiconsolutions's picture

@Vidar - +1000! You are absolutely correct. Lost in all these arguments is the role of the individual. As a voluntaryist / anarchist I don't recognize the state as having authority over me. However, practically speaking I understand that they can exert considerable force over me and take my property as they have done for decades through direct taxation, property taxes, etc. And I also understand that while there is no practical way of withdrawing consent I certainly make every effort to not participate in the state. Viva the individual!

Volkodav's picture

Good post..actual thinking processes..
now probably won't have to wait long for ignorant reaction...

Boomberg's picture

Nice idea. Do you stil believe in Santa Claus?

Anusocracy's picture

Meaning that government is Santa Claus?

After all, government IS the belief system.

Boomberg's picture

Once upon a time, I lived on a farmstead in NoNationStateLand. You were also living there as a neighbor. You happened to notice that I had two hot beautiful daughters coming of age who winked and waved at you as you worked your field nearby. You also noticed that I had better crops since my land was more fertile with plentiful access to water. You would like to just come over, kill me, knock the girls on the head and drag them back to your place, and take my land also. However you've seen me and my son Billy Bob doing target practice with some awesome guns, and my uncles come over often for target practice also, so you can't have your way. You get to thinking, how can I fuck the girls and take the land when he has bigger guns? I know! I have two other neighbors that when we get together with guns and people, we can all split the land and I'll settle for just one of the girls and give the other to neighbors. So the neighbors and you organize and execute the plunder and you have your way. There are no laws of a nation to prevent it, just whoever has the most people and firepower. And then over time you realize you can take other people's land the same way and with wheeling and dealing you can take over the entire world if all goes well and everybody lives happily ever after except for those who weren't smart enough to network with right neighbors, and also you realize that you are the nation-state.

I just described the entire history of humanity but I'm sure it would be different with all the modern-day downvoters. It's always been about fucking the hot young girls and good land.  I suggest reading a history book some time in your life. 

Volkodav's picture

You sound like a Yankee...

silvermail's picture

"Death to the nation-state!"

When there is no sovereign states, the whole world turns into a U.S. colonys.

CrashisOptimistic's picture

That theory would have approved of East Germany keeping themselves segmented -- forcing those citizens to remain subject to their laws simply because of where they lived.

Element's picture

Don't talk distracting silly bullshit, this is escalation, in a dangerous situation and you want to cheer it on, to make people 'free' from something via conflict do you? Good intentions meet the road to hell. Think about your comment when the guns and bombs and missiles are flying. It'll be quite a consolation.

FYI, the East Germans did not try to start WWIII to get 'free', they simply gave up on the system and it stopped working. Big difference to invasion and bombardment.

Anusocracy's picture

Escalation - aggression - was the color revolution and the coup instigated by the West.

And you're not for escalation. Total bullshit.

Element's picture

Last I looked I neither participated in that coup, not did I encourage it. And no I am not for escalation, it is incredibly dumb and foolish, and makes things far worse.

And its the act of war mongers.

That would be you ... apparently.

 

Anusocracy's picture

Are you pro-US or anti-US?

Are you pro-NATO or anti-NATO?

Show us your colors.

LSOS

Element's picture

Neither, is that impossible for your pea-brain to conceive of?

I don't have a 'side', as I don't champion states.

Apparently you do, as well as war monger.

And no, I don't care to know what 'side' you're atrophied frontal lobes are on, please spare me your further stupidity.

You need to take a lot less drugs and grow the hell up, silly man.

Anusocracy's picture

So then, why are you anti-Russia when the US was the AGGRESSOR? To be consistent, you would have to be against the initiator of aggression, the US, and you are not. Russia did not start this.

I think you are lying.

BTW, I find it disconcerting not being against evil. You do understand that the US is evil, don't you?

Element's picture

Rubbish, I was not on any side, at any point, you can think whatever you want, it's irrelevant. If I say I have no side, I have no side.

I comment objectively on all sides, and no side should ever think I won't point out exactly what shitbirds they are, and that means every fucking govt on earth, and I'll describe in excoriating detail the crap they get up to without any hesitation at all. I'll do that to Obama and I'll do it to Putin. Their person or state is totally irrelevant.

That's what I have always done and I will always do. I don't give a damn about the govt of Putin or the govt of Obama, they are all warlords, killers, despoilers and thieves.

 

If you don't like objective commentary of all sides, then fuck you, as I'll never at any point do anything to please you, of that you can be 100% assured. I don't give a damn whether you like it, or it makes you cry, or feel depressed, or happy, because I'm going to have my say on such things, and you and all those petty little twerps like you, who pick favorites from a sea of scum - can go to hell!

Have a nice day.  :-D

Anusocracy's picture

Apparently you can't comprehend that not criticizing the aggressor IS taking a side.

What is happening in Ukraine is the result of US actions and the US is solely to blame for what has followed. Russia's actions are the result of US actions.

Your ingroup patriotism has trumped your so-called 'objective commentary'.

Element:

"Whose citizens?

This is the problem, Moscow claiming that Ukrainians are really Russians.

No, they're Ukrainians, not Russian. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it except as an excuse.

They did the same thing in Georgia. It is not something to be encouraged, because this is escalation."

The tiff In Georgia was fomented by the US (and Israel), the coup in Ukraine was caused by the US, but your so-called 'objective commentary' disappears when the US is at fault.

Being objective means that each individual abides by whatever competing jurisdiction they want, or none at all.

I choose none at all.

Omen IV's picture

"Element" lacks the integrity and intellectual honesty to recognize that action breeds reaction and the USA paid $5 billion to subvert a democratically elected government

ANY lapdog can say he thinks everyone is at fault -  that is the definition of a covert agent

Element's picture

Element doesn't get his thinking defined by a crowd of shameless Putin dick-suckers. I call it as it is, and always will, and if you don't like it you can go to hell.

Oh yeah ... I;m a covert agent man ... oooooeee ... I'm really bad .... ooouei .... I could say anything .... lol

Get a grip bud. You don't like alternate views to challenge your happy reality, I get it.  :-D

chindit13's picture

You stupid fucking naïve gullible moron, and I mean that as constructive criticism.

“The US paid $5 billion to subvert a democratically elected government.”

Actually, no.  The total foreign aid the US has given Ukraine since 1991 is $5 billion, which averages out to $18 million per month (monthly take-home of a decent HF manager).  The funds were given during times when Ukraine was run by governments both favorably disposed toward the US, and governments not so favorably disposed, and most of the funds went towards improving public works, education, healthcare, etc.

During that same 23-year period, Putin had one of those “democratically elected” leaders poisoned with dioxin.  I don’t know how much that cost.

You might want to take a moment to reflect on what might be the differences between what can be called “coups” and what can be called “popular uprisings”, and how external elements might be able to affect one or the other.  You might not agree with what I’ll say, but a coup is a precise and pinpointed effort that can be affected by a small group.  Such an entity could benefit from external support.  An example might be the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, when the USSR funded the toppling of the government, then installed a puppet who “invited” the already-there Soviets to come and try to seize the nation.

A popular uprising is a mass movement.  It stems from the thoughts, ideals and desires of a broad range of a society.  It might be able to be influenced by outsiders with vested interests, but outsiders’ impact is minimal at best.  Outsiders can’t make something happen that isn’t going to happen anyway, or that doesn’t have broad support amongst the population.  To suggest the movement in Ukraine was purely a result of US meddling is to say that the Ukrainian people are ignorant malleable fools, who are no match for the 'vastly superior' handful of Foggy Bottom types like Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt.  That is grossly unfair to the people of Ukraine.  The claims that US alphabets were in there fomenting and actively participating only come from those who have a worldview derived from Hollywood B-fare and pulp fiction.  People of that naïve belief should listen more to Bob Baer and spend less time with Robert Ludlum or Alex Jones.

For some reason, once many of you fanbois saw photos of Putin with his shirt off (not a pretty sight, frankly, unless one is enamored of sagging 60+ year-old manboobs), you got all weak in the knees and apparently let your homoerotic fantasies affect your thinking.  Putin is not a “patriot” any more than Justin Bieber is a singer.  Putin is a thuggish, self-serving, slightly unbalanced Nicholas II wannabe, who may well suffer from SDS, and after dumping his babushka and knocking up that little ribbon-twirling strumpet, is evidencing a little Midlife Crisis (if he rides into Crimea in a Porsche, that will confirm it).  He cares about empire and not people, hence he supports referendums in Crimea, but savaged Chechnya when he was building his dictatorial bonafides.  Certainly he is not about to allow any sort of self-determination in the 96% Chechen Moslem land of Chechnya.  Nor Dagestan.   “Worship me above all others, or I’ll cut your gas off and let you freeze” kind of has an Old Testament feel to it, don’t you think?  The world---US, Russia, everybody---should have left that sort of thinking to the dust bins of history or myth.

Putin is systematically re-installing in Russia the kind of societal control measures his land suffered under during Soviet times, and crushing dissent wherever it appears.  Even an all-female rock band seems to intimidate him.  (Dubya didn't put the Dixie Chicks in jail.)  Putin ordered that Anna Politkovskaya’s head be blown off (but I’ll bet Eddie Snowden won’t bring that up until he has another place to hang his hat).  Putin funds his government---and keeps the ostensible debt levels low---by brow-beating Russian banks to make loans to his oligarch cronies.  It’s sort of MyRa Putinesca.

Victoria Nuland may well be an asshole.  Seems so.  John McCain definitely is.  John Kerry is an embarrassment, though I would suggest he chummy up to Putin by comparing notes over their Botox and plastic surgery treatments.  Maybe that could help diffuse this current potentially disastrous situation.

 

Element's picture

 

 

"Certainly he is not about to allow any sort of self-determination in the 96% Chechen Moslem land of Chechnya.  Nor Dagestan."

Well I think the geography of Chechnya and Dagestan required militarized rebellion and insurgency be put down by moscow, and by whatever means, at that point in their collapse-recovery cycle, don't you? Especially the Jihadi type mentality they had dealt with in the ghan. So I can understand why that occurred.

If Kansas tried that the great dark beige peace-maker would do something similar, if there was significant resistence.