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Why The Standoff At The Bundy Ranch Is A Very Big Deal
Submitted by Michael Krieger of The Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
If you haven’t been following the unfolding drama at the Bundy Ranch about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas you need to start now. The escalating confrontation between irate local residents and federal agents of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has the potential to take a very dangerous turn for the worse at any moment, as hundreds of militia members from states across the country are expected to descend upon the area and make a stand with 67-year-old Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy.
Before I get into any sort of analysis about what this means within the bigger picture of American politics and society, we need a little background on the situation. The saga itself has been ongoing for two decades and the issue at hand is whether or not Mr. Bundy can graze his 900 head of cattle on a particular section of public lands in Clark County. Cliven Bundy has been ordered to stop on environmental grounds to protect the desert tortoise, but he has stood his ground time and time again. As a result, the feds have now entered the area and are impounding his cattle. According to CNN, Between Saturday and Wednesday, contracted wranglers impounded a total of 352 cattle. The Bundy family, as well as a variety of local residents have already had confrontations with the BLM agents. Tasers have been used and some minor injuries reported. Most significantly, militia members from across the country have already descended upon the area and it seems possible that hundreds may ultimately make it down there.
To me, the argument of who is right and who is wrong in this situation is the least interesting part of the story. I have noted time and time again that the feds are becoming increasingly out of control and belligerent to American citizens. We know the stories (think Aaron Swartz) and we know the overall trend trend. However, the reason the Bundy Ranch confrontation is so interesting, is that for whatever reason this particular incident seems to be striking a chord of dissent. It is often times the most random, unforeseen and innocuous things that spark social/political movements. This standoff has it all.
From CBS News:
LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government.
The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that two militia members from Montana and one from Utah have arrived at Cliven Bundy’s ranch.
“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” Ryan Payne of the West Mountain Rangers told the Review-Journal. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”
Payne said that militias from New Hampshire, Texas and Florida are likely to join and stand with Bundy and stay at his ranch.
“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne told the Review-Journal, adding that hundreds of militia members are expected.
Lawmakers are adding their voices into the fray, criticizing the federal cattle roundup fought by Cliven Bundy who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.
Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn’t be penalized by an “overreaching” agency.
Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called “an atmosphere of intimidation,” resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled.
The fact that a U.S. Senator and the Governor are publicly coming out agains the feds is in my opinion a very big deal and may signal the beginning of a true fracturing in the social fabric. Something that I have been expecting for many years.
Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association and remained “extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure.”
The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing.
Sandoval said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in “First Amendment area” south of the resort city of Mesquite.
The site “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution” and should be dismantled, Sandoval said.
People being rounded up like cattle in these bullshit “First Amendment areas” is completely unacceptable.
BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon and Park Service spokeswoman Christie Vanover have told reporters during daily conference calls that free-speech areas were established so agents could ensure the safety of contractors, protesters, the rancher and his supporters.
Meanwhile, federal officials say 277 cows have been collected. Cannon said state veterinarian and brand identification officials will determine what becomes of the impounded cattle.
The kindling for social upheaval has been growing in America for quite some time. Disrespectful and ignorant statements from billionaire oligarchs like Sam Zell only make it worse. The question in my mind has always been what will the catalyst be to spark the brushfire? Will it be the Bundy Ranch? We’ll have to wait and see.
Personally, I hope cooler heads prevail and there is no violence, because once you head down the road of violent confrontation between the people and the feds you are opening up a can of worms that will not easily be bottled up again. In such a situation, everybody loses. However, my long-term fear is that unless the government and its puppet masters on Wall Street and elsewhere in big business change course, social upheaval will prove inevitable, whether the Bundy Ranch sparks it, or some other incident down the road. These are troubled times and they are likely going to get worse before they get better.
This picture basically says it all:

Full article here.
+++++++++++
The latest news is a 'win' for Bundy for now...
The gathering of rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle in northeast Clark County has been stopped by the director of the Bureau of Land Management.
Bundy is meeting this morning with Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie to discuss a possible solution to his dispute with the BLM.
Metro Officer Jesse Roybal confirmed that Gillespie was in the Bunkerville area this morning to meet with Bundy.
The BLM had been using contract cowboys to round up Bundy's 900 head of cattle that have been grazing over 600,000 square acres in northeast Clark County for more than 20 years without his payment of grazing fees.
Neil Kornze, director of the BLM, made the following statement this morning:
"As we have said from the beginning of the gather to remove illegal cattle from federal land consistent with court orders, a safe and peaceful operation is our number one priority. After one week, we have made progress in enforcing two recent court orders to remove the trespass cattle from public lands that belong to all Americans.
"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public.
"We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner.
Ranching has always been an important part of our nation’s heritage and continues throughout the West on public lands that belong to all Americans. This is a matter of fairness and equity, and we remain disappointed that Cliven Bundy continues to not comply with the same laws that 16,000 public lands ranchers do every year. After 20 years and multiple court orders to remove the trespass cattle, Mr. Bundy owes the American taxpayers in excess of $1 million. The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially."
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Syphillis for character Zell ought keep his pie-hole shut.
He epitomizes the type of alpha-shitbird crony-capitalists that have fucked-up this country.
Zell is cut from the same grifter, insider, scumbag rag as the Chicago slum-lord Lou Wolf.
Zell used the money of theTribune employees to buy the Tribune and he then fucked-up the company more then those of the same ilk, before him.
Evidently, as he was pissing all over the Tribune Co. and it's employees, it's been reported he threw lavish whore ridden parties in the Tribune Tower, office of the Tribune Founder
'GOT NO PROBLEM WITH THE WHORES...JUST GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT LITTLE WHORES ATTEMPT AT BRAINWASHING.
The topic of this article is spot-on.
L&L
They will crush this rebellion, and then the drone wars will begin. It will then be full on Police State.
Drone wars. I'd bet there are web sites where one can download the source code for these drones. Hell they probably have off the shelf MS malware running them. It will be great to see hackers grab control of them and set them out onto the low level government lackies while filming the whole episode for youtube consumption.
A drone is just a big RC airplane with weapons. Once enough people throw the law to the wind and the thin veneer of civilization comes off, all bets will be off because just about anyone can afford to build one.
"First Ammendment' Zones and 'Free Speech Areas' what a load of crap...the whole country is supposed to a First Ammendment Free Speech zone not areas designated by the police state.
Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government...
What did cowboys do to rustlers in days of yore? Is there legal precedent? :o}
I hate to be a contrarian here, but...
The Feds own Federal land, rightfully or wrongfully obtained, right? Can anybody just drive into Yosemite with a bulldozer, knocked down a dozen acres of trees, and put up a casino? I agree the Feds are being much heavier handed than necessary here, but this time I kinda do see their point. And I'm usually the first to scream Fuck the Feds.
I was unaware Clive was driving a bulldozer in Yosemite - oh, wait was that a herring, red?
Imbecile.
Finally some common sense.
I was born and raised amongst public lands in the arid southwest and work with BLM on a weekly basis. They are a bunch of worthless, shuffle butt beauracrats and I dislike them with a passion.
That being said, the real crime is grazing cattle anywhere on public land in the arid southwest under 4000' elevation. I wish people would get this worked up about BLM's (non)management of feral horses and burros on public land. Many of the people taking sides with the Bundy's based on their privilege to graze cattle on public land are similar to the asshole animal rights people that fight for feral horses/burros on public land, just at the other end of the spectrum
People being rounded up like cattle in these bullshit “First Amendment areas” is completely unacceptable. This in itself is not constitutional.
This to me seems that it's bigger than one man against the Federal government. People are sick of being taken for granted and walked all over by the federal government in many different examples. The fire may be lit by a spark that does not make all that much sense to you or I.
+1 Well put. You have a talent for summary.
It's not FEDERAL land - it's PUBLIC land. WE THE PEOPLE OWN IT.
EDUCATE yourself on grazing cattle on PUBLIC land. It has nothing to do with bulldozing waterfalls in a national park.
Jesus fucking Christ there are some spineless fucking pussies around here.
"there are some spineless fucking pussies around here"
</golf clap>
no --there are some dangerously ignorant fucking wanna be cops types around here.
No, no golf clap?
Y U mAd brO?
Wannaabeee piece offers, the ones standing up for the citizens, corralling them into first amendment areas? For their protection?
It may be time for you to bow out, it is getting dangerous around here for some spineless fucking pussies. Just sayin...
That's a national park and you have to know the right people to conduct a business in a national park.
all things considered i would not eat the flesh
of those, or any other, cattle or tortoise.
What the Fuck is a tortoise doing in the Desert? I'm more interested in that little Faggot Harry Reid and what his Little Faggot son Rory are up to aligning with a Chinese Solar company??? FUCK I HATE DEMOCRAT's!!!! YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!!!This country needs a POLITICAL ENEMA!
SO the 1st amendment area becomes the 2nd amendment arena. Interesting.
The real reason fr all of this is the determination by Obama to reduce gas emissions from cattle......
That's not funny....this is serious business and you should be aware of it .....no fucking jokes....The time has come to take action or where done...
the fucking kill switch
The Standoff is already over. The American Revolution II has been averted for a week or so at least.
So may we make jokes? Please, may we make jokes?
If you want your Ranch, you can keep your Ranch.
You didnT build that BLM.
They will be back when all seems normal....like they did with the Brown Family in New Hampshire.....
What's up with all these goverment paid faggots trolling the zerohedge comments relentlessly. James Cole and trader 1, and several others. They are relentless in these comment sections nowdays. Bunch of little nancy boy faggots. Put the fuckin computer down you fuckin losers and go outside. Faggots.
I noticed that too. You can tell when something serious is afoot - they come out en masse.
What I find interesting is that they can never address the issue at hand; they have to twist it, deflect it and make it into building houses in the Grand Canyon or some stupid shit.
The fact that they cannot address the issue at hand in a direct, straightforward manner shows how intellectually and morally bankrupt they are.
ZH is a primary target for the disinformation brigade. They are stepping up the rhetoric because they know that we know that they know that they are fucked. Got it?
what we know is that their fearless leader is a cock sucker--and his bed buddy is a tranny. I changed the subject so they don't have to.
They don't have to address the issues, they can openly lie and have the cover of most of the masses and the evil intelligencia.
They are paid disinformation bots, disregard them. The ones we truly need to worry about are the ones that make rational points build rapport and trust and then spew pro-gov propaganda when the time is right.. "After all be reasonable" right..
Yeah like Rodney King and the "can't we all get along" song. I don't like them in my face and especially don't like them breathing my air.
LOL, they have the mentality of a Stasi puke don't they?
Forget moral bankruptcy, Wall Street Banksters,total corruption, unconstitutional action, global war. The next American revolution will start over COWS. YAHOO! one big rodeo. If this were a movie it would've been on Mystery Science Theater 3000.
The mods need to start cleaning house around here. This place crawls sir.
Haha, so good posters get black bagged, but government bootlicking shills are welcome?
All are welcome here (welcome to take a beating), no mods... at least that is how it used to be.
You won't find any support for censorship around these parts, partner.
That's funny because a lot of good posters are banned.
Thus the "...at least that's how it used to be" comment. ZH may ban people now, though, compared to most "popular" media it would still be fairly "tolerant", but I don't think you'd find many of the "old guard" supporting censorship in any form.
Funny stuff. When cattle ranchers fight the man it's patriotism worthy of 'militias', when OWS (or keystone and fracking opponents, or GWB fake WMD war protestors) fight the man the babbling conservatives call it an insurrection that demands a violent and harsh response. When corporations take public lands and destroy them for profit, it's all conservative, free market good. Occupying public parks is done by evil layabouts who want to destroy capitalism, but occupying public grazing lands is worthy of a fight to the death because that's the American way. Hypocritical BS.
OWS rightly focused on a fascist crony state of affairs in USA as the problem. OWS thought the government was the solution to the problem. OWS would have spit on miltia folks who are standing with the cattle rancher. OWS and Tea Party have much more in common than they have significant differences.
When your grandfather homesteaded their Nevada Ranch, these people know the cost and benefits of freedom. these people are willing to die for freedom. I wish OWS would travel and stand with this cattle rancher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE
TrustWho, you sir hit the nail on the head. OWS wasn't in a protest to protect their homes or thier livlihood. They were simply making a point. OK a rather pointless point, but a point none the less. However this rancher was/is standing up for his freedom and his livlihood. Its good to see the jack booted thugs back down for once. They figure they can do this crap worldwide and get away with it, why not in Nevada too. Maybe the tide is turning somewhat. But I won't count on it.
Hey stooge, there is a BIG difference here. It's called PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. The rancher has a bought and paid for right to use that land. Paid out of HIS pocket. Cattle that he has bought, and paid to feed {and vet bills when sick}. The OWS arguement is different completely. There was no private peoperty rights issue behind it at all. While I sympathized with their arguement to a degree, it is not the same thing at all.
Wrong, he hasn't paid a dime in two decades to free-graze his multi-million dollar herd on Public land. NON free-LOADER ranchers paid to use public land. Go fight for the rights of those EBT'rs.
You haven't had many dealing {if any} with Fed agencies have you? They create useless agencies and beaurocracies who said mission is to " HELP YOU MANAGE YOUR BUSINESS". The real reason behind them is to control your business, and you get to pay them for the privilege. Same thing happened to my grandfather's farm back when the Fed's created their Farmer's credit system and land management program. he refused their offers for cheap credit, and that pissed them off. They tried to tell him what crops he should plant, how much land he must idle, etc. When he ordered them off his land, they tried to use the TVA to take the family farm, under the guise of flood control. As long as he lived, we kept the farm. After he died at the ripe age of 84, my father, uncles and aunts sold the farm to some yankee from New England. The TVA did then take the land. Some of the richest soil in the USA now lies under water, damed up and flooded by the Feds. So don't even try and sell that shit to me, take it somewhere else you idiot SOB.
Idiot SOB, were you in Montana like I was -http://tech.mit.edu/V116/N16/militia.16w.html - consider yourself schooled.
You send me a link and that is suppose to verify to me that you were there? Yeah, right. Here is what that reminds me of:
http://youtu.be/_4e8iAofnrw
Shut down the Blood Games - think about it. No internet, no Twitter, just militia with guns and a news blackout, to stop Wacos. Believe what you want.
There are generations of EBT/Po Folk gimmieDats going to the same families...that is immoral if not depraved. And I know first hand from my former position.
ObsoleteMan? These Leftist swine Do Not recognize private property rights. As I'm sure you and many here completely understand; without property rights there are no rights.
Yep, babbling conservatives love "government small enough to fit in a uterus".
EVERYONE STOP FOR A SECOND AND BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT YOUR CAPITULATION ASSUMPTIONS Re: The BLM
This is a tactical retreat by the Feds very similar and reminicient of what happened during the Occupy Movement. Those in the movement exhibited tons of false bravado and called victory early on, satisfied that authorities had been neutralized and in retreat.
NOTHING COULD HAVE BEEN FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH AS HISTORY LATER SHOWED.
SECONDLY, be very aware of the culture of law enforcement as it currently exists in the United States. They will be highly intent upon rectifying this withdrawal and restoring their uber authority.
THIS SITUATION IS FAR FROM OVER.
Mark my word, they will be back when the crowds go home and at a time of their choosing...
WITH OVERWHELMING FORCE... when nobody is around... the second time around. This has been the modus of operation for ages, repeated time and time again.
EXPECT IT, STORE AWAY THE FALSE BRAVADO THAT ON DISPLAY TODAY AND PLAN ACCORDINGLY WITH WHAT IS YET TO FOLLOW...
Because,
If there is any truth to the solar farm development deal intended for that land and the masses of graft that likely go with it, big money interests will force this issue...
BIGTIME
Not if we demand an investigation into Reid and all BLM transactions. A nice Senate Hearing will be in order. Although no heads will ever roll, the BLM will at least be stopped. Raise hell with your reps it does work....to a point.
I agree with your assessment, however, I predict a big fucking bloody mess if anything violent ever happens to this family on the part of US.GOV. The rural West will never stand down.......
The most remarkable thing about this whole enchilada is not only in witnessing the power of the people, and a sheriff that was forced to step up to the plate to uphold his oath of office, (part of his duty to act ya know), but the amazingness is in how this was well covered almost all day from the beginning live on ustream infowar news. The other guy dropped the ball and started cussing down AJ. Stupid move. Lost his whole viewer-ship in an instant.
Watching it all happen live, is better than getting the sour dough watered down version later in the lame stream media. Two guys, a telle, and a camera out in the middle of nowhere Nevada are doing a better job than all the main stream zillion billion dollar network wastes of time put together. Why does America, or the world for that matter, need the American media at all?
Truly, we are living interesting times, and a lesson is to be learned here. Just like the economy, we are all waiting for the cows to come home. The lesson is seeing how the people come together to handle it and deal with the babylonian govt during hard times.
Head em up...move em out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHr4ubuD64
Yep, "funny" how this has been the "news" - distractions anyone?
maybe those cows know
where Bin Laden is...
Don't every underestimate cows... Sheep is another matter entirely... dumb as hell..esp Americans ones that watch TV
Eat Moar Chikin!!!! Nothing more than a clever ad campaign when the Guernsey union founded Chick Filet.
Problem here is that Jones is a pied-piper NWO Troll and this Bundy hoax is a set up to protect a FREE-LOADER rancher that has had the privilege of having his multi-million dollar herd feed-bill paid for by the American tax payers for two decades. Quayle is a fear-porn hack.
This is NOT a Waco moment and innocent people are likely going to be killed over the non-payment of a lease. Waco was about the feds being judge jury and executioner where almost a hundred people died, including two dozen children.
Those Blood Games were shut down in Montana – http://tech.mit.edu/V116/N16/militia.16w.html – and this story is a distraction. The REAL standoff needs to be in D.C.at the State of the Union address.
I could give two shits about the cattle rancher, but if the gov fires on those protestors then I hope it lights things off.
So, you want people to die because a FREE-LOADER rancher won't pay his lease? These "protesters" are getting played. And maybe that's the plan, so Zero can declare martial law. If you are an American, you are asking for the right thing but for the wrong reasons. War over an un-paid lease that has cost the taxpayers millions?
The rancher is no free loader. He's a hard working American that produces food for people like you.
The taxpayers have lost NOTHING because the BLM shouldn't fucking exist in the first place you fucking moron.
What article of the Constitution authorizes the BLM to "own" land that belongs to the State of Nevada????
Nevada territory belonged to the USA before Nevada became a State. In the 1990s the legislature started the Sagebrush Rebellion reclaiming 70% of federal land - not including Bundy's, which still belonged to the public.
And it is decades past time for states to assume their rightful ownership of ten's of millions of acres of land that persuant to the Constitution, the national gov't couldn't possibly "own."
Get lost....You know nothing about the subject....probably never met a real cattleman.
I know this business and will stark take side of the on the ground cattleman in real anytime. He will be the most honorable party in the food chain, with rapid downhill from there...
Better look the unfolding story about certain political leader connected involvement for profit in this takeover..
This is big deal...Rural people work for living, don't cause trouble, endure a lot...
Piss off, I know what REAL cattlemen are, and they're not FREE-LOADERS.
Do you have even the faintest idea what "freeloader" means? How about this.
The ultimate freeloader is someone who unilaterally claims control of 1 million square miles of land.
Who does that describe?
The federal government.
Oh, you mean the Sovereign without whom you'd be a subject of England.
You must be kidding!
So, a FICTION is sovereign?
No human being IS a subject of any other individual or any fiction (government, corporation, whatever).
However, almost ALL humans are treated as subjects AKA slaves by predators who pretend they are "government" or "corporation" or "nation" or "state" or some lame-ass "authority"... ALL of which are fictions.
I suppose the native americans were LIBERATED, right? I suppose you believe a couple dozen human beings can spread ink on paper (constitution) and obligate millions or billions of other human beings for centuries or more? Seriously?
YOU are sovereign... but only over your own life.
EVERYONE is sovereign... but only over their own life.
Just think about the flaming insane idea you attempt to promote. That somehow a few people can simply DEEM an entire continent belongs to THEM.
That is beyond insane.
Belongs to US. We are the Sovereigns - collectively. That "ink" you speak of was what set you free, and was dearly paid for with the Blood and Treasure of true Patriots. Spout your psycho-babble to the rest of your kindergarten club.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
-----
You explain how a couple dozen individuals smearing ink on paper can obligate millions or billions of other individuals who were not involved... for centuries thereafter no less?
Oh, and not only that, but the freaking continent on which they smeared that ink had already been occupied for 100,000 years.
Give it your best try. You can't do it.
Then try to explain how some individual or small group of individuals claiming ownership or control of 1 million square miles is anything more than hot air spewing from mouths or ink smeared on paper.
I do NOT advocate predators in England, and I do not advocate predators in north america.
The entire notion of sovereign can only apply to individuals over their own lives, their own time, their own efforts and their own property. ANY other meaning for that term is an overt statement of support for SLAVERY and TYRANNY. Which is what you support.
None of the above is psycho-babble. None of what I said is disputed by anyone. Go ahead and explain how a couple dozen humans smearing ink on paper can obligate millions of others for centuries? Go ahead. Good luck. But you can't, and nobody can, and you know it.
And BTW, there is no "collective". No such entity exists. Just as a "forest" does not exist if you remove the individual trees, your supposed "collectives" do not exist if you remove the individual humans. Which means, neither the "forest" nor the "collective" exist. They are merely mental-units in your brain. What is real are only the individual trees and the individual humans. And so, a "collective" cannot be anything or own anything, because it does not exist in the first place.
Those State legislatures, you know, the people's (or, your "trees") representatives thought otherwise and acted upon their constituent's beliefs. There was originally no gun to their heads.
The light of liberty and civilization in a dark, predator-filled world created and evil held at bay. Sure gave you the opportunity to speak your mind. So bite the hand that feeds - your right, and you're welcome.
My rights do not come from god, or government, and certainly not you (since you deem all my rights are provided by the thugs who in fact attempt to enslave me in every way at every turn).
And every pack of predators is just a pack of predators, whether they call themselves a "legislature" or "mafia" or "gang" or anything else. For some to gang up on others is always and only predatory behavior.
Plus, you and everyone should understand the obvious at this point in history. If ANY real or fake mechanism is EVER created with power over individuals, the human predators will ALWAYS gain control of that mechanism and make it take their predatory actions to serve their predatory goals. It cannot happen otherwise, which is why modern humans (especially liberty advocates) need to get real, grow up, see the reality of the world and man, and advance to a more honest, accurate understanding of reality, man, consciousness, and how humans must interact with each other to avoid being utterly dominated by predators as they have been since recorded history began.
Jesus, the whole series of posts/threads are confusing the hell outta me...I'm cheering one comment from a poster then reviling the next.
The disinformation crew is working overtime...
careful, she is Pocahontas's great great great...
That lady questions the whole principle of tea and sympathy. In fact for her any man with a government ticket whether he be GW himself--the original-- was a sham.
You know, I'd give serious money to be sent back to the 1770s in a time machine, and spend a few dozen hours brainstorming with Thomas Jefferson and his merry band of delusional revolutionaries (or however you want to think of them).
I don't claim to know how clearly they understood these issues. But I sure as hell would like to hear their answers to these questions, and ask them how... even in principle... they can show up on an already occupied continent, and legitimately claim to obligate millions of people for thousands of miles for centuries to come.
What about the natives who already live here? How about the fact that the system they already have is more consistent with liberty than what they are trying to establish.
And do they really believe the brazen notion that somehow their tiny group of dudes smearing ink on paper could possibly obligate millions of others in some legitimate way?
I would LOVE to have those conversations with those jerks, if for no other reason than to find out whether they were simply mistaken and misguided, or whether they understood they were destroying the liberty inherent in a frontier continent and replacing it with their own tyranny, no matter how much initially milder than the ones they escaped elsewhere on the planet.
I'd love to get inside their heads, and understand what they really thought and understood.
But today, the absurdity of those notions are clear as can possibly be.
you are simply foolish --- because all political power comes from the barrel of a gun-- it's how the ink works.
Exactly, that's what I'm saying. NONE of the smeared ink, and none of the words or ideas those smears represented have any legitimate significance whatsoever. The fact remains what I said --- there is no legitimate or even vaguely sensible basis for a couple dozen dudes to obligate millions of uninvolved individuals for thousand of miles and centuries of history.
The only reality is --- predators scamming, dominating and abusing producers.
Which means just what you said --- threats and guns.
Which is why the time is long overdue for everyone to recognize the predators for exactly what they are, and treat human predators the same way they treat predators of all species (if they have half a brain and aren't self destructive).
What inhibits most humans from treating predators as predators is simply... they don't understand that fundamentally, this predator-prey dynamic is the dynamic that operates all around the world today in endless ways.
predators-DBA-government
predators-DBA-corporations
predators-DBA-centralbanks
TJ and the rest would justify it thusly:
You see, honestann, there are people and there are people. Some people come from the light of Christian civilization with the enlightened word of God and our mighty constructs. You see it is our right, nay, our duty, to uplift the savage from his state of nature and bring him forth to the light of liberty and Christ. These savages, of whom you speak, are nearly base animals whom, by the grace of His eternal wisdom, have been placed in our tutelage. We must, therefore, do God's work in saving the savage's soul and bringing him out of the mean darkness of his current existence.
___
They truly believed in the freedom of men, juxtaposed by the legal and "right" owning of slaves. To us these are oxymoronic, but to them flowed together in perfect harmony. The Masons do not use a pyramid as their primary symbol for nothing. They believed that some men were better than others and thus, should have the right to make decisions for the lesser men, usually denoted by property ownership, religion, and race. Females of any race of human were not "capable" of owning property and were in fact, property of their fathers/husbands/brothers themselves. It was a small leap to think of the "indian" having no more rights to the land than a bear or wolf (or Black man).
You make the mistake of anachronistically placing your understandings and values (of this time and place, which is manifestly different from their time and place) on the people of the late 18th century. I am not defending their ideas, but you asked for a window on their minds... so I opened it for you.
I think you're largely correct... but I'd still like to have that brainstorming session and hear from their rationalizations and mysticism from own mouths (especially TJ, who seems to be the most rational of that gang).
I do tend to forget about the religion angle. And sometimes I even forget how absurd is the notion that when they said "ALL men are created equal", that their meaning of ALL wasn't ALL at all. It is interesting that here and there some of these dudes did even give lip service to tolerating [gasp] people who do not even believe in god at all.
So yeah, thanks for reminding me of these facts. But still, if anyone out there has a time machine, let me know what you charge for a two-way ticket to 1776. I figure a two week visit will do.
I guess the bottom line is this. TODAY it is not asking too much to expect liberty advocates to NOT make these mistakes. Unfortunately, a great many do adopt the insane ideas of yesteryear. Hi ho, silver.
The real issue is this (and I think this is what you are getting at):
If property rights are based on theft and murder at their heart then no one has any property rights, unless they are able to kill all comers (as some who post here think they can). One of the responses to your post above says that all power flows from the barrel of the gun (thanks Mao) and this is true of human society (and nature... not the gun part but the "might is right" part). By this immutable law of nature the Native peoples of North America did not have the rights to the land because they could not defend the land. The same is true for us today.
As LoP always says... "Hedge Accordingly"
Yeah, well then all I'm asking is this. IF what people mean is "all power flows from the muzzle of a gun" and "all these other ideas and claims are pure BS nonsense"... then people should just DROP THE BS and SAY IT LIKE IT IS.
Then we know where everyone stands, and can act accordingly.
BS nonsense is defined as "civilized behaviour".
What?
You're saying that the endless justifications for slavery is what constitutes "civilized behavior"?
And you're saying "limiting interactions with others to voluntary interactions" is what constitutes "barbaric behavior".
Seriously? You don't believe that.
What I'm trying to say is this. Maybe if humans understood that all this nonsense language is just cover for slavery and domination by predators, they'd put their foot down, grab their weapons, and take out the predators.
For anyone to claim that "civilization is domination by predators" is quite the stretch!
PS: The notion of "property rights" comes from "causality applied to human action". If a human takes actions that cause goods to come to exist that otherwise would not have existed... the human is the cause of those goods (and thus the creator of those goods), and has a relationship to those goods as a consequence.
Some terms people assign to that relationship are "production" and "property".
"Oh, you mean the Sovereign without whom you'd be a subject of England."
You really should wipe that FedGov cum off your face. It's disgusting.
And brutally disingenous. The "sovereign" that defeated England was the collective will of those who risked their lives in mortal combat with said monarchy. The "sovereign" to which he refers was formed after, and then, ironically, subverted by the very people those who had set it up engaged in mortal combat with.
ding, ding, ding... we have a winner.
Not to mention that "sovereign" is a completely bogus term, unless it means the dominion of each individual over their own life, time, efforts and property.
Got Damn!! You're beautiful!
look at the bright side...Bundy has 352 fewer cattle for the Feds to impose their flatulence tax on.
Quickly replaced by the hot air coming out of government sponsored internet shills.
http://rtfitchauthor.com/2013/...
Exclusive:
Wild Horse and Wild Burro Good News and Bad News from Twin Peaks HMA
Last weekend several experienced wildlife observers with binoculars and
long-distance camera lens thoroughly combed 77 miles of the Twin Peaks Herd
Management Area (HMA) and found only 27 wild horses and 5 wild burros. Is
this good news or bad news? This is good news for those few wild horses
and burros that remain on their legally designated land, but bad news for the
Twin Peaks HMA as a whole.
The forage has grown back from last summer’s fire and there is an abundance of food as was obvious by the condition of the few vigorous and healthy wild horses and burros that were observed, but this is still a small and discouraging number of wild horses and burros.
This survey is consistent with previous surveys and documentation supporting the impacts of an
enormous and devastating roundup in 2010.
The 2010 Twin Peaks roundup resulted in the permanent removal of more than
1,500 wild horses and 160 burros from the range. As of August 2012, 977 of the
wild horses and burros removed from the range were still in “holding” and
hundreds more have died or been sold by BLM to “questionable” buyers and they
cannot be accounted for. The BLM failed to consider data regarding ecological
resources in the herd management area, and also illegally harassed and captured
horses that were not even considered “excess” by BLM’s own standards.
"unless the government and its puppet masters on Wall Street"
me thinks this statement is backwards.
The rancher will choose to suicide himself by three bullets to the back of the head and a suicide note printed by an IBM Selectromatic
How come these Senators are speaking up for cattle?They want to use a propaganda war against Russia to sell F16's to Poland and others over in Europe.Seems to me like they can give billions to Ukraine,give a subsidy on jet fighter aircraft which costs millions for each one and yet there's no money for the American people.The Feds can support over 700 military bases worldwide,previously have nuked the living shit out of Nevada,Utah and Alaska,contaminating the entire landscape of North America with Cesium 137 and tell everyone they're now concerned over a desert land turtle?
They obviously didn't do a good enough job nuking Utah, what with the size of Mitt's family.
Why? Because that's where da aliens parked MH370.
Grazing on public land is stealing, they should arrest this criminal.
You're breathing my air asshole, time to pay up.
"Grazing on public land is stealing, they should arrest this criminal."
No. Locking up public land for the exclusive use of turtles is fucking stealing you stupid prick.
Not paying your rent to the right owner, trespasing, and threatening the owner are crimes in themselves.
The rightful owner of the land is the State of Nevada.
And apparently, the turtle thingy is just a ruse to bar cattlemen from using the land in order to facilitate Dem Senate Majority Leader Reid's son's business deal w/ the ChiComs. The various federal departments and their NonProfit confederates, i.e. Sierra Club, have used the clean water act and the endangered species act for years as a means to commit property rights thieft. That is the real story imho.
Another fool who shoots off his mouth before he loads his brains. Get this through your thick skull: HE OWNED THE RIGHTS TO USE THE LAND! In that sense, it is not "public land", as it would be to a park, wild life refuge, memorial, etc. What part do you not get?
He didn't own squat. He stopped paying the grazing fee decades ago while law-abiding ranchers kept paying their lease payments. Shame he can't make it on his multi-million dollar herd without bilking the US taxpayer.
500 (maybe 800) isn't a big herd at all. I was once a cattle rancher's wife, he owned the 2nd largest cattle raising operation in the USA, with 20,000 head. That is a multi-million dollar herd you dumb fuck. They always drop off bales of hay to the cattle during off season (no vegitation). The man stated that the BLM began to make moves he considered were against his business plan and giving him these fees was funding his own demise. Cattlemen are not greedy. Salt of the earth is more like it. Cattle ranchers do not succeed in this very tight knit industry if they have a reputation of going rogue; no one will do business with them.
Everyone a good apple - right. Look dumb fuck, twenty years at up to a thousand head per year times a few grand a head equals millions. You must be from the '50s?
$1.35 per head month
$12,960.00 a year for 800 head you miserable pig of a man.
http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2012/releases/01/grazingfee.shtml
Washington, Jan. 31, 2012 -- The federal grazing fee for 2012 will be $1.35 per head month (HM) for lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service and $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM) for public lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management. The 2012 fee is the same as last year’s grazing fee.
An HM or AUM - treated as equivalent measures for fee purposes - is the occupancy and use of public lands by one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month. The newly calculated grazing fee, determined by a congressional formula and effective on March 1, applies to more than 8,000 permits administered by the U.S. Forest Service and nearly 18,000 grazing permits and leases administered by the BLM.
The formula used for calculating the grazing fee, which was established by Congress in the 1978 Public Rangelands Improvement Act, has continued under a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986. Under that order, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per AUM, and any increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year's level.
http://earthjustice.org/news/press/2013/court-strikes-down-controversial...
Salt Lake City, UT —Today the United States District Court for the District of Utah struck down significant parts of the Bureau of Land Management’s (BLM’s) Resource Management Plan for the Richfield Office, putting the brakes on a Bush-era management scheme that prioritized motorized recreation over all else. A coalition of conservation groups led by the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA) and Earthjustice had challenged the plan (the “Richfield RMP”) in an attempt to bring balanced management to Utah’s spectacular public lands. The plan developed by BLM threatened world-renown southern Utah wilderness landscapes like the Dirty Devil Canyon complex (including Butch Cassidy’s infamous hideout, Robber’s Roost), the Henry Mountains (the last mountain range to be mapped in the lower 48 states) and Factory Butte. See more photos.
Specifically, Judge Kimball:
Under the Richfield RMP, BLM had designated over 4,200 miles of dirt roads and trails, enough miles to drive from Atlanta to Anchorage, for ORV vehicle use despite evidence of environmental damage and conflicts with other public lands visitors.
“This landmark decision is a resounding rejection of the BLM’s mismanagement of Utah’s stunning public lands,” said Stephen Bloch, legal director for the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance. “The Richfield RMP wrongly prioritized ORV use over all other uses of the public lands and neglected streams and special places worthy of protection. The court didn’t mince words in its ruling that this violated federal environmental and historic laws.”
The impact of this decision raises serious questions about the legality of five other BLM management plans in the eastern half of the state of Utah that suffer from similar legal flaws. The Richfield RMP is just one of six land use plans—covering more than 11 million acres of eastern and southern Utah—that the Interior Department finalized in October 2008. Together, these RMPs were a last-ditch attempt by the Bush administration to leave their stamp on Utah’s landscape by prioritizing ORVs and energy development over protecting Utah’s uniquely magnificent red rock canyon country. Conservationists have challenged all six plans in court. The Richfield RMP is the first of the six to be litigated.
“It’s a new day for Utah’s Red Rock country,” said Heidi McIntosh of Earthjustice. “This far-reaching decision means BLM can no longer dismiss the value of wilderness, scenery, wildlife, and areas of cultural importance to Native Americans in favor of destructive ORV use.”
“This decision sends an irrefutable message to the BLM about the need for responsible management of the 11 million acres of public lands covered by all 6 challenged plans,” said Nada Culver, Senior Counsel for The Wilderness Society. “The BLM should heed this as a call to action and move forward now to address these flaws in all of the plans—minimizing damage from off-road vehicles and protecting natural and cultural values.”
"We're thrilled by the district court's decision," said Bill Hedden, Executive Director of the Grand Canyon Trust. "BLM's refusal to conduct on-the-ground inventories for cultural resources that are being damaged and destroyed from off-road vehicle use was shocking. Federal law requires BLM to do more to protect these irreplaceable cultural treasures and we're pleased that the judge ordered BLM to do so."
Background information on the Richfield RMP can be found on SUWA’s website. Photographs of the proposed wilderness areas at risk in the Richfield field office are also available. In 2008, the Salt Lake Tribune and New York Times panned the Richfield RMP, raising many of the same flaws identified in the court’s decision.
The conservation groups challenging the BLM’s 2008 land use plans in Utah include the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, Sierra Club, Grand Canyon Trust, National Parks Conservation Association, The Wilderness Society, Natural Resources Defense Council, Utah Rivers Council, Great Old Broads for Wilderness, National Trust for Historic Preservation and Rocky Mountain Wild.
The groups are represented by attorneys Heidi McIntosh, Robin Cooley and Alison Flint of Earthjustice, Stephen Bloch and David Garbett of SUWA and by Robert Wiygul of Waltzer, Wiygul and Garside.
Yep, that was the piddling sum he should have paid. I was talking about the profit from head sale you miserable ignorant crap. And, it was up to 1000 head - 500 over lease limits - so drink deep of your miserable ignorance.
WarPony, you are the ignorant fuck that cant keep his muth shut. How much is $1.37 per head x 900 cattle then x 20 years? If you still say its millions I'd say you must work for the govt which you seem to think can do know wrong. Go home and come back when you dry up behind the ears.
WarPig's a troll, don't feed him.
BobbyC
search YT for storles relating to the theory that herds tear up fragile land. After they killed 40,000 elephants in Africa they learned that herd animals don't eat where they shit. They eat, shit and MOVE! As long as they can move they don't harm the land. Instead they fertilize and leave it better.
The accusations that cattle are bad for the arid West are wrong unless the cattle can't move about freely.
The guy who killed the elephants syas he feels terrible.
This whole thing started with a theory and a book in the 1980s. Like so many things, actions preceded study and politicians jumped on the enviro-waggon before they did any research. The result has been bad policy since. The BLM are just govt thugs. They don't do research. They just like to play with military toys.
At least we here in Clark county got to see where Sherrif Gillespie stands (or sits is more like it). If you have a chief law enforcement officer who respects the Constitution...hug him for me.
There is a great TED video on the subject on the uTube! +1
Allan Savoury shoul get the Nobel Peace Prize.
http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_a...
The Eco-nazis hate him. Basicaly because he goes against the Agenda 21 discourse that everyone should stop eating non-factory-farmed meat.
You should be flogged troll
Spoken by someone that knows nothing about the history of the country. Go back to watching Dr Phil. You'll feel better.
My uncle got nuked multiple times in the 50s. Growing up in Vegas he and his buddies used to drive out and watch the bombs go off, and the ash fell like snow on them. His hair turned white by the time he was 25 and he never had kids.
Does that make it fucking okay to graze your cattle on public land that the public set aside for tortoises? No, fuckhead, it doesn't.
I really am looking forward to seeing your trailer trash militia show up and get their cunts cleaned by the feds on this one. Not one of 'em's worth a fucking turtle.
I do find it hilarious though how many of them manage to read Al Jazeera and Russia Today, the two lyingest sacks of shit outside the US Gov'ts main line propaganda. But I guess stupid people are easy to turn, huh?
I want to see corruption taken down by civilized, intelligent people who are literate enough to understand what America is supposed to be -- people like the founding fathers. Not fucking idiots like this.
And no, Tyler, this is not "the big one". Jesus.
It's too bad your parents didn't follow your uncle's model.
Yeah, yeah. And it's too bad you knocked up your sister, but, life goes on.
True, but clearly the radiation has effected is thought processes.
"I really am looking forward to seeing your trailer trash militia show up and get their cunts cleaned by the feds on this one. Not one of 'em's worth a fucking turtle."
lol - It wasn't the militia that got their cunts cleaned and had to be escorted out of the area for their own safety, was it fuckface? No it was your beloved Federal Government suckbuddies.
Think this greedy, penny pinching, never paid a dime to lease public land rancher is gonna help all those unemployed clowns make next month's payment on their late model pickup trucks? Doubt it. Then they'll have to drive home to Missoula and stew over their shotguns, and the cattle will go back to Utah where God and the Gov't say they belong.
Who, pray tell, is your employer?
mí mismo, vaquero.
"I want to see corruption taken down ..."
Lucky, that is very unAmerican. Our system is about bribes and accepting bribes and giving bribes. Bribes are what drive a health economy and democracy. Justice Roberts said so.
You should be ashamed of yourself, Lucky.
I bet you'd be singing a different tune if the same people who were on foodstamps were using up taxpayer land -- our land -- to make millions of dollars for themselves, for free. But I forgot, different rules apply to rich white Mormons. Hah. If this guy ain't a freeloader, I don't know what is. Pity the idiots who think he stands for some kind of cause.
I suspect Mr. Bundy has paid mucho taxes (property and income) through the years.
The .gov trolls on this forum want to float a bullshit balloon that 800 cows have made this rancher millions. Want us to think this rancher is of the hated 1% and a welfare queen to boot who doesn't pay his rent.
It might not even be 800 cows but 800 head (cows and calves), not a huge money spinner. The profit on a cow is the sale of progeny. After expenses (vet, hay, drenches, pick ups and other equipment) the rancher might make $100/cow per year. So max of $80,000/year for a job that requires getting into shit filled bogs to rescue a stuck calf and dealing with wildfires,snow storms and droughts that will wipe out a few years returns very quickly.
Meanwhile the BLM has 100 near new air conditioned cars to confront this rancher with.
The troll-fu is strong on this thread.
Ignore them.
"I bet you'd be singing a different tune if the same people who were on foodstamps were using up taxpayer land -- our land -- to make millions of dollars for themselves, for free."
I would love to see the EBT army using public land to run a business, pay taxes and produce food for others. Of course, they don't because they are too fucking lazy.
With this knowledge of Reid's son being involved, where is the American outrage over this?
Why are people not making a fuss that someone was using government office to brutalize and destroy someones life and property for their own private personal gain?
The medias non-existant coverage and lack of investigative journalism is a revolting testament to how far peoples standards of governance have fallen.
--------------------
America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
-Abraham Lincoln
This is not over yet. Information I got is they intend to clear them out at 4 am...
Earlier if they run out of Coors Light.
Truth
When I moved to Vegas in the 90s they had a 'tortise tax' developers had to pay. They would 'relocate' any they found. For some bizarre reason many of the critters were euthanised. I suspect it was a cost thing but I know that the desert tortise is a 'go to' excuse and not a real concern for the Feds.
Some younger ZH reader may still believe in the tooth fairy and government truth....I suggest you ask your mom about both
da...desert tortoise, spotty owl, ukrainans all need protected.
We must accept that this is all the Bundy's fault.
Did Mr. Bundy make friends with any state or Federal elected officials...as in, did he give money to get them elected? No? Then this is all on him.
Chief Supreme Court Justice Roberts has made it clear that our Democracy is founded on farmers and citizens and business people...folks just like Cliven Bundy... ingratiating themselves with office holders by handing over big bags of cash for their election campaigns.
In fact, Roberts went on to say that it was UNAMERICAN to stop the influence of money on the political process.
Bundy needs a political solution and he'll get that if he pays for it.
Oh pahleez, author. It is one thing to "not want people to get hurt", but you must understand that all predators continue their destructive behavior as long as their prey does not FIGHT back. And I do mean physically fight back.
It has to happen. The only question is where and when. Such action is long overdue, and I mean by 100 years (federal reserve and income tax) at least, though some might argue only 82 years or so (gold theft and other enormous oversteps). Frankly, the right time was when predators started trying to create fictitious governments on the continents the native americans had already lived upon for tens or hundreds of thousands of years.
What matters most is HOW actions are taken. The reason "it is coming to this" is because actions like "courts", "voting" and "representatives" have been utterly captured by the predators. The courts regularly say "liberty means slavery" and "protection against unreasonable search, probable cause, and search without judge signature on a court order" means "government can do anything, anytime, for any reason". Not to mention utter insanities like "corporations are people". Sheesh!
The predators have long been, and continue every day acting as utterly out-of-control predators. The FACT is, only two options exist. One is to lie down and become utterly complete slaves, and the other is to fight to the death. NO other options exist, except in the minds of clueless morons and wishful thinkers who refuse to recognize the nature of reality, the nature of mankind, and the nature of predators, parasites and producers.
Here's a great pic. The guy on the left has it right. The guy on the right - not good.
These people are not ignorant, lard ass, redneck militias. These are the men who drove into the desert and weren't afraid to throw down.
Americans on the overwatch
This was a very tense standoff. People were critisizing the protestors for taking the low ground, but it actually was very smart. There clearly were a number of Good Americans willing and ready to see an end to this rather than let protestors be slaughtered if things went sour.
Bravo to the many hundreds of armed Americans who made this a success!
This was never about tortoises. If they wanted to protect tortoises, they wouldn't have killed a thousand of them saying they didn't have money to feed/care for them. Instead they bought new trucks, guns, tasers, dogs, and more crap to be brown shirts. They won't deal with the feral horse population that is overgrazing Nevada. Cows are not the problem. Hundreds of thousands of horses are overgrazing and destroying tortoise habitat.
That position wouldn't matter given air support. Given that there was no anti-aircraft weaponry, they're good as painted.
And after that airstrike the perps had better not ever come home. Their neighborhood won't be safe anymore. Not to mention the foreign support that it would provoke. Even from those that want to see the USA collapse, money and arms would flow in from many directions.
I like turtles!
Do you like crony capitalism too and Chinese solar companies?
Me too... They taste good...
Darn, after the day is about over and these folks are chalking up a win, the sad losers seem to be coming out of the wood work to detract from this very real live win for the People. A win for the Constitution. A win for America!
Oh, and the babylonians have been fighting this all day with several shut downs of the entire streaming networks. Lol...there is no stopping the ingenuity and persistance of the people once they get to riding all together.
They thought they were messing with a bunch of city slickers like the weinne whistles in massachuchets. What folks do not realize is this is still the wild west out here and the sounds of gun shots and massive weapons in the middle of no mans land are very normal to 9/10's of the ranch people throughout the western states. The tenth percentile are the city folks that have moved from the big shitties and have not lived in God's country long enough to lose the control and hustle and bustle and fight to survive paradigm modes they have come to be conditioned by. After experiencing freedom and abundance, space and beauty in nature, one loses that dog eat dog attitude real fast. It becomes more about dog survives mode.
Yes indeed, this is a very big deal because it well exemplifies that the babylonian govt is losing the control of the fear tool, and terrorism propaganda tactics on their own people using all sorted methods of anti-constitutional color of law statutes, and blah blah laws to usurp the country's foundations.
The funny thing is, the Truth engraved in Stone that stands the ages of time immortal, gives the power to the people to overcome all odds, including the fear of a govt gone wild, and now runs amok in everybody's face and backyard. It has been met, and overcome. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO NOT WANT THE WORLD TO SEE. If this had gone one shot over the line, a million more men were to march, and they were not headed west, rather they seek that which was lost in the East. Freedom from tyranny, justice, decriminalization of the houses of leadership, and the land where fear is not the rule of the day. It is soon to come the time of MA AT and that double-edged sword of Truth and Justice shall see the Light of day.
May God indeed bless America, and may God indeed bless the world that all stands in unison against the babylonian-bankster tyranny that pits all sides against each other for profits, manipulation for world domination, and a population elimination agendas that have no racist overtones. They hate every single soul on board the Earth Ship.
Ride Rangers...ride with the angels in the Sky!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWTjjm-Gg3c
Public opinion still means something in America. It may not always be this way. Take advantage of this. Courage is contagious.
I hope this is it... I hope the militia members draw their line. You best believe if they get bogged down there i'll be driving there with my guns and ammo. We have to take a stand and what better place than here and what better time than now...
The feds better be very careful (sure they will) because this is the week of the anniversity of the Clinton/Reno massacres.