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Why The Standoff At The Bundy Ranch Is A Very Big Deal

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Krieger of The Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

If you haven’t been following the unfolding drama at the Bundy Ranch about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas you need to start now. The escalating confrontation between irate local residents and federal agents of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has the potential to take a very dangerous turn for the worse at any moment, as hundreds of militia members from states across the country are expected to descend upon the area and make a stand with 67-year-old Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy.

Before I get into any sort of analysis about what this means within the bigger picture of American politics and society, we need a little background on the situation. The saga itself has been ongoing for two decades and the issue at hand is whether or not Mr. Bundy can graze his 900 head of cattle on a particular section of public lands in Clark County. Cliven Bundy has been ordered to stop on environmental grounds to protect the desert tortoise, but he has stood his ground time and time again. As a result, the feds have now entered the area and are impounding his cattle. According to CNN, Between Saturday and Wednesday, contracted wranglers impounded a total of 352 cattle. The Bundy family, as well as a variety of local residents have already had confrontations with the BLM agents. Tasers have been used and some minor injuries reported. Most significantly, militia members from across the country have already descended upon the area and it seems possible that hundreds may ultimately make it down there.

To me, the argument of who is right and who is wrong in this situation is the least interesting part of the story. I have noted time and time again that the feds are becoming increasingly out of control and belligerent to American citizens. We know the stories (think Aaron Swartz) and we know the overall trend trend. However, the reason the Bundy Ranch confrontation is so interesting, is that for whatever reason this particular incident seems to be striking a chord of dissent. It is often times the most random, unforeseen and innocuous things that spark social/political movements. This standoff has it all.

From CBS News:

LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that two militia members from Montana and one from Utah have arrived at Cliven Bundy’s ranch.

“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” Ryan Payne of the West Mountain Rangers told the Review-Journal. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

 

Payne said that militias from New Hampshire, Texas and Florida are likely to join and stand with Bundy and stay at his ranch.

 

“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne told the Review-Journal, adding that hundreds of militia members are expected.

 

Lawmakers are adding their voices into the fray, criticizing the federal cattle roundup fought by Cliven Bundy who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

 

Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn’t be penalized by an “overreaching” agency.

 

Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called “an atmosphere of intimidation,” resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled.

The fact that a U.S. Senator and the Governor are publicly coming out agains the feds is in my opinion a very big deal and may signal the beginning of a true fracturing in the social fabric. Something that I have been expecting for many years.

Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association and remained “extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure.”

 

The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing.

 

Sandoval said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in “First Amendment area” south of the resort city of Mesquite.

 

The site “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution” and should be dismantled, Sandoval said.

People being rounded up like cattle in these bullshit “First Amendment areas” is completely unacceptable.

BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon and Park Service spokeswoman Christie Vanover have told reporters during daily conference calls that free-speech areas were established so agents could ensure the safety of contractors, protesters, the rancher and his supporters.

 

Meanwhile, federal officials say 277 cows have been collected. Cannon said state veterinarian and brand identification officials will determine what becomes of the impounded cattle.

The kindling for social upheaval has been growing in America for quite some time. Disrespectful and ignorant statements from billionaire oligarchs like Sam Zell only make it worse. The question in my mind has always been what will the catalyst be to spark the brushfire? Will it be the Bundy Ranch? We’ll have to wait and see.

Personally, I hope cooler heads prevail and there is no violence, because once you head down the road of violent confrontation between the people and the feds you are opening up a can of worms that will not easily be bottled up again. In such a situation, everybody loses. However, my long-term fear is that unless the government and its puppet masters on Wall Street and elsewhere in big business change course, social upheaval will prove inevitable, whether the Bundy Ranch sparks it, or some other incident down the road. These are troubled times and they are likely going to get worse before they get better.

This picture basically says it all:

Bundy ranch

Full article here.

+++++++++++

The latest news is a 'win' for Bundy for now...

The gathering of rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle in northeast Clark County has been stopped by the director of the Bureau of Land Management.

 

Bundy is meeting this morning with Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie to discuss a possible solution to his dispute with the BLM.

 

Metro Officer Jesse Roybal confirmed that Gillespie was in the Bunkerville area this morning to meet with Bundy.

 

The BLM had been using contract cowboys to round up Bundy's 900 head of cattle that have been grazing over 600,000 square acres in northeast Clark County for more than 20 years without his payment of grazing fees.

 

Neil Kornze, director of the BLM, made the following statement this morning:

 

"As we have said from the beginning of the gather to remove illegal cattle from federal land consistent with court orders, a safe and peaceful operation is our number one priority. After one week, we have made progress in enforcing two recent court orders to remove the trespass cattle from public lands that belong to all Americans.

 

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public.

 

"We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner.

 

Ranching has always been an important part of our nation’s heritage and continues throughout the West on public lands that belong to all Americans. This is a matter of fairness and equity, and we remain disappointed that Cliven Bundy continues to not comply with the same laws that 16,000 public lands ranchers do every year. After 20 years and multiple court orders to remove the trespass cattle, Mr. Bundy owes the American taxpayers in excess of $1 million. The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially."

 

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Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:46 | 4652447 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Could be a long hot summer.  It's already past time to get this party started.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:00 | 4652284 optimator
optimator's picture

I'm old enough to remember the Soviet troops pulling out of Budapest in 1956 and the celebrations that followed.  But the Soviet troops only regrouped in strength and enveloped Budapest a few days later.  Pullback and regroup.  I sure hope we don't see any armor coming down that highway.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:07 | 4652309 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I don't think we'll see armor, I think we'll see an army of IRS agents and Federal lawyers. 

They will take every license plate, every cell phone ID, and every IP address that has voiced support for Bundy and hold them responsible. 

This was a tactical withdrawal. The war is just getting a simmering start. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:11 | 4652329 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Well, that would have turned ugly had BLM shot somebody:

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/10011288_1...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:11 | 4652330 Runs-With_Toast
Runs-With_Toast's picture

Bummer just took out a cow with a drone. Meanwhile Shrub and Kerry masturbated in a coffin decorated with desert tortise skeletons at Skull and Bones HQ

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:18 | 4652346 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Only when I hear a Governor or a Sheriff warn that federal employees face arrest, will hope rise for me....

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:28 | 4652352 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Ryan Bundy, a son, is on horseback talking on "FreeTalkLive" show on GCN right now...Genesis Communication Network

He told hosts there was standoff and backdown...

There is also archives of all GCN shows...can listen later

This segment started 7pm EST...in archives is 2nd hour April 12

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:23 | 4652361 bobcromwell
bobcromwell's picture

Build your own militia and grab some land, african countries are more civilised.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:41 | 4652427 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

I'd be shocked if a single person in that mob even had a passport. Most of 'em probably never seen a black person except on TV, let alone a whole country of 'em. Big mouths, small dicks. Good fuckin luck.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:01 | 4652725 mumcard
mumcard's picture

I bet you saw a black man early on in your mom's room right?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:37 | 4652828 usednabused
usednabused's picture

Naw he just saw the tip of what he thought was a black man... It was kinda dark in that smelly hole tho

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:09 | 4652907 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Is it important to you?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:29 | 4652953 Two Feet Studs Up
Two Feet Studs Up's picture

Look what we have here... A computer cowboy. Go away you fucking shill.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:40 | 4653278 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

There were black militia members that responded to defend Bundy. 

You must be a racist asshole to presume that black men are not willing to risk their lives to defend the Constitution.

I find your insinuation that a person lacking a passport is somehow inferior. I lived and worked in Central and South America for six years. My passport is expired and I will not renew it. 

I will live, fight and die here. I have no desire to travel abraod anymore. Deal with it - me and others like me aren't going anywhere you small dicked, big mouthed fedgov fanboy.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:55 | 4652479 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

What we have here is a Joseph Kony supporter. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:11 | 4652546 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Probably Idi Amin's bastard son.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:23 | 4652587 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Obama's fag army might be interested...since he has sent troops to capture Kony, again without authorization or even beforehand notice to the Legislative Branch.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:24 | 4652367 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

these comments above...most enlightening

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:48 | 4652453 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Just paid shills doing their thing.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:25 | 4652372 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

It sounds complicated.  I think I'm on Bundy's side, based on reading the messages here, and thanks to those who posted actual facts.  Yet direct action is frowned upon in any civilized society, we're supposed to take it through the courts.  It seems both sides have been taking direct actions in technical contravention of either the law or justice for some years now, and then the current BLM action is not just dubious in the light of the long-standing issues, but overreaching in several ways.

Yet it doesn't matter, in the end, the strangest things can become the triggers for larger events, and in those regards I wonder if it wouldn't be better if things continued to escalate, but it sounds like at least for the moment they won't.  Let's see what happens to the issue over the next few weeks and into the election season.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:40 | 4652836 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Civilized? You must be kidding. The facade of civility in the 21st century has long since been dispelled. Agenda 21 must move FORWARD. 

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:56 | 4653030 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Bundy could have appealed the ruling and had it stayed pending appeal, and none of this would have happened.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:28 | 4652376 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Battle of Bull Run in Nevada flats. Where is Las Vegas relative to this cattle casino?

Chisum on the move and the 7th cavalry will consider him like a latter day Sitting Bull or Crazy Horse at Little Big horn.

This has to be a rerun of "she wore a yellow ribbon" and "he wore his guns like Billy the Kid". 

C'mon Marion Morrison there has to be a part in this movie for the Duke like in The Searchers. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:26 | 4652377 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

The federal government is clearly too big when a “land management” agency can afford to have its own sniper team. A government agency that has more money than it needs to conduct its core functions is an agency that will busy itself with finding more things to control and ways to extend its power. This is the Iron Law of bureaucracy.

A government that can create its own money does not have to ask taxpayers for permission to spend more to feed its self-serving bureaucratic activities. When states start calling for a Convention to consider amendments to the Constitution, the first topic must be to restrain federal spending. A government that must live within its means is a government that must focus on the important things rather than imposing evermore intrusive laws and regulations having the weight of law.

Every day more people are coming to the judgment that a carefully organized effort to repair the constitution via the States’ power to propose and ratify amendments has less risk to our liberty and prosperity than the present trajectory of the federal government and especially the federal bureaucracy.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:28 | 4652381 cheetahbaby
cheetahbaby's picture

Granny Hawkins: "They say you're a hard put and desperate man, Josey Wales. They're goin' to heel and hide you to a barn door. You know what I say? I say that big talk's worth doodly squat."

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:30 | 4652387 Burticus
Burticus's picture

Blame the vote-"counting"-in-secret computers for re-re-re-electing this @$$#01e and every other elephant & jackass sock puppet.

Fortunately, ranchers always have plenty of 3/4 inch manila hemp handy...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:31 | 4652393 meterman
meterman's picture

Where in this article does the DURDEN mention Harry Reid's involvment in this criminal affair?  All the commentors know the story of Reid and his son working for the communist chinese, but where does the DURDEN detail this info?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:05 | 4652525 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

That would be a question for Mr Krieger.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:32 | 4652396 Cocktosen
Cocktosen's picture

When I used to live in New Mexico, the natives(read: Native Americans) has their own meaning for the BLM.  Bureau of Leasing and Mining.  Corrupt.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 03:08 | 4653348 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The field agents that I've run into in NM have actually been reasonable and didn't act like cops.  Aside from littering and setting the vegetation on fire, they didn't give a shit what people were doing, unless they were shooting, then they wanted to fawn over the guns, because they were all gun nuts.  In fact, we had one give us his card in case the local popos tried to run us off of BLM land for shooting.  As for the bureaucrats, yeah, I can definitely see that.  Anyway, that's my personal experience, but most of those guys are probably getting ready to retire by now.  I haven't run into any young ones.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:34 | 4652403 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

deliberately provocative.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:35 | 4652405 holmes
holmes's picture

Thanks to all the folks who showed up to take on the BLM.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:37 | 4652415 Bankstein Swiss...
Bankstein Swissgoldberg's picture

1. first amendment areas in the middle of the desert are an insult.

2. the desert turtle must be respected.

3. journalists look for sensationalism, and turn small facts to huge dramas

4. lets make desert turtle areas in the middle of the desert.

Another winwin easytoimplement solution !

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:38 | 4652420 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The fate of the cattlewill also determine the fate of the goyem.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:45 | 4652444 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

What fuckin' bullshit from a guy that can't read or write. It doesn't exactly take a fucking international Jewish conspiracy to hold you down. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:50 | 4652464 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Shouldn't you be off poisoning a well or making blood matzo from little Christian children?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:56 | 4652486 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

yeah, well it's fuckin shabbas. I'm taking a break. On my days off I like make fun of illiterate nazis on the internet and stab Palestinians, and it looks like I'm almost through with the nazis...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:06 | 4652901 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

you really lack creativity..

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:46 | 4653283 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

You really need to stick to your video games. Your profile information is readily available with a simple Google search. Lolking? Really? lol. WHat are you - 14 years old or something? lol

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:56 | 4652487 falconflight
falconflight's picture

You need your teeth pulled out one at a time :)

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:02 | 4652508 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

well, I carry, so come try it fuckface. I promise it won't be as easy gettin them Jew teeth as it was for your pigfuckin' grampa, but come on now, don't be a pussy!

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:08 | 4652532 mumcard
mumcard's picture

He'll start screaming holocaust next.  The wailing and gnashing of teeth soon to follow. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:10 | 4652544 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

Uh, no. I'll just tell you that I'll blow your fuckin' head off if you get near my teeth.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:12 | 4652552 mumcard
mumcard's picture

You can just blow me.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:14 | 4652558 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

Huh. So you're a nazi and a fag? That must be tough.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:18 | 4652572 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Just your wishful thinking.  I know you heebs think you've converted a lot of heteros with your constant barrage of filth in the media, but I still like women.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:26 | 4652595 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

Shit, I only manipulated the media to turn you into a fag so you'd quit raping your sister. Now you've seen right through my ploy.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:34 | 4652620 mumcard
mumcard's picture

You seem to be the one with the fag/sister fixation.  I guess it can't be helped since the rabbi's suck your dick first thing.  Did the rabbi give you herpes?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah

 

 

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:01 | 4652721 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

nah, I think I got it from your mother. I was blind drunk and mistook her for a rabbi, what with all the hair. lol

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:46 | 4653284 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

You need to ask your mom first kiddy.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:18 | 4652571 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Are you speaking for mumtard now or just practicing your Dirty Sanchez on him?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:57 | 4652493 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Curse and kill the messenger. Very revealing.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:06 | 4652528 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

I didn't kill anybody. And it ain't revealing about anything except my own disliking for some people. You think it's revealing about my race? What race do you think I am? I'm an American and a Libertarian and a lotta you people make me sick with this nazi stuff.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:50 | 4652862 usednabused
usednabused's picture

Awww here I thought u wuz a jooboy, damn. Truth is its hard to tell your nationality or heritage and it really doesn't matter, all people were created equal. But what is important is the fact that you're a total fucking asshole running off your bullshit mouth on the taxpayers dime. Must be nice having a gov't job huh Flakmeister?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:39 | 4652423 gann1212
gann1212's picture

the gubmint represents the super rich. it does NOT represent the average person. this has been going on for a long long time. they say he owes the government 1 million. my question is how many billions has goldman sachs stolen from the american perople. when is that paid back.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:42 | 4652433 arby63
arby63's picture

Truth is simple in this case: fuck you feds. We the people are tired. Fed up. Getting quite angry.

 

Keep pushing the silent majority.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:11 | 4652911 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

"Keep pushing the silent majority."

They have no idea how intense the anger is seething below the sublime layers of thinly vailed civil sanity.

Soon, the unleashing will come and clowns that spew clown barf that are being tracked back to thier places of refuge, will be the first to know the ferocity of pent up anger like has never been seen in the history of civilized man. EVERYBODY KNOWS who is responsible for all this mayhem, and the insano deceptions to make war for the banksters. The people of the United States are sick and farking tired of this BS and baloney from all anti-Americans without, and within.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 23:52 | 4653136 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Philalethian

+ 1, nice posts today.

"Everybody Knows" from the master:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:44 | 4652442 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

There are two sides to the story.

Is the rancher entitled to let cattle graze on federal land free, so he can make a profit? Reasonably, I guess the government could charge him rent. h didn't pat, and the contract or law syas he is supposed to, but has gotten away with for decades or generations, then the governemnt should have sued him in court or maybe even pit a lien on his house.

 

But nooooo. The government had to round up his cattle and send armed goons to his land. This is consistent with the government's stupidity which occurred when they sent their goons into Kiev to foment an uprising, and a sign thatour "here to help" government is just one step away from sending armed IRS agents at 2:00 AM on "no knock" raids of our homes.

 

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:48 | 4652457 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Well, somebody already sued, because Bundy is defying a federal court order.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:00 | 4652503 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Well obviously, the answer is to spend 5 times as much sending goons to kill cattle.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:46 | 4652670 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Tazers and SUVs are good for the enviroment.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:17 | 4652761 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Somebody has to enforce the law.  Anarchy is no way to run a country.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:26 | 4652784 mumcard
mumcard's picture

As opposed the shit we have now?

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:48 | 4653288 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

If the Feds want to enforce the law, the least they can do is start by following the law. 

Or is the law just for us little ppeople?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:04 | 4652518 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

 

The fact that the government gave a pure BS justification ("Save the box turtles!") is flat out evidence that the govetnment lies, lies, and lies some more. From what little I've read, it basically boilis down to Senator Wimp Reid wanting to kick this rancher off the land so that his (Reid's) son could make a ton of money.

 

The government might have an argument if the money/energy from the solar power venture would benefit the public, but I'll bet the main thrust of this was for the politicians to make more fucking money for themselves!  It seems in Oregon, the owner of a home can't even collect rainwater that falls on his own land because the rain belongs to the government. I wonder if  private interests can collect sunlight on federal lands? ....if you see where this is going.

I am sure the politicians have made out like bandits with the sale of  federal land to oil and natural gas contractors.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:14 | 4652560 valley chick
valley chick's picture

After reading a detailed explanation bt Bundy's daughter, many facts have not been presented by the media...no surprise.  In brief, the property rights were sold to her great grandpa, which of course was handed down as each generation obtained the property. This all of course before there was even a BLM.  The BLM ...once created, was to oversee the property and to make sure there was no over grazing and to do up keep of sorts for a fee to help cover salaries and the said up keep.  Like most people the farmers did not see initially any problems with it so they all paid...including Bundy.  However like any govt bs, the did not maintain and Bundy started maintaining himself at his own expense.  He then so called fired the BLM. The other farmers in that area were pressured to sell...and did...and basically paid with the money paid in fees. Bundy refused to sell and next came their claim about the damn turtles and then the many years of court costs.  As the daughter also mentioned, once the Bundy farm should close...so will the roads there for public use. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:20 | 4652578 valley chick
valley chick's picture

Lastly, the daughter stated that frm the sheriff to the meat graders to the governor...they are all bought off.  No surprise.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:42 | 4652840 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

but that is not the whole story....

Firstly, Is there any legal basis for govt ownership claim? Some argue is unconstitutional...not that will be respected if fact.

How is later and retroactive rules piled on and then claimed to be lawful?

Read Bastiat.."The Law"  legal plunder   argue that is not exactly same here..."when the law is not lawful"

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:46 | 4652446 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Landowners are not, actually, sovereigns.  They are subject to state and federal law.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:45 | 4652662 mumcard
mumcard's picture

And state and federal law are subject to the US Constitution.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:58 | 4652715 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Haha, now who voted that down.  I know we have some serious shills around here now.  Hope someone rats you out when the time is right.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:29 | 4654154 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

I voted your dumbass down.  You contribute nothing of value to the conversation.  Your pedantic 8th grade rants are annoying.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:25 | 4652783 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

And a federal court has determined that Bundy owes the federal government money for use of federal lands.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:27 | 4652789 mumcard
mumcard's picture

What a shocking surprise that the feds would support the feds. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:49 | 4653289 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Federal courts also ruled that a slave counted as 3/5ths of a person. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:07 | 4654225 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Umm, that was not quite it, research that for its true meaning regarding house apportionment..  More importantly the Dred Scott decision that slaves were portable property judges are not infallible nor do they rule.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:30 | 4652803 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Not if law is unlawful...

Who trained you?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:31 | 4652804 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Not if said law is unlawful...

Who trained you?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:34 | 4652818 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Who decides whether a law is "unlawful"?  You?  I'd like to know who trained you to make such decisions.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:01 | 4652880 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Who decides if it is lawful?

Hopefully men of honor and integrity...not paid for corruptness

Read "The Law" Bastiat   "the law misused" "the law subverted" "legalized plunder"

You seem might appear not care if righteous and fair or not as might make right and who has power is the law...

btw I have some background and my Lady is Top Lawyer, three degrees and Cum Laude (with Honors) 

But if you cannot take these points..well enough....

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:07 | 4652903 mumcard
mumcard's picture

I'm sure he's paid not to support those points.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:20 | 4652928 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Whoever this "Lady" is will have read Marbury v. Madison.  I'm sure she would also agree that the way to deal with an adverse federal court decision is not simply to ignore it and continue breaking the law (as determined by that federal court).  Ask her, she'll tell you.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:42 | 4653280 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

It is when you can't afford to fight their law, in their courts when they have, literally, unlimited "money" and you don't.  Some times you have to change the game if you want to have a chance of winning.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:50 | 4653290 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

"Who decides whether a law is "unlawful"?  You?  I'd like to know who trained you to make such decisions."

Ever heard of jury nullification? 

The Founders clearly stated that We The People are the ultimate judge of that. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:55 | 4652476 falconflight
falconflight's picture

It's becoming clearer and clearer to me that the terrorists are actually and truly the US Government (although not excluding state and local gov'ts).  I guess at ZH such a comment is laughable for naivity, but it is a heavy heavy realization.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:43 | 4653282 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Welcome to the club.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:51 | 4652465 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Locate and store the nearest address for your Ministry of the Interior which includes the BLM, Fish and Wildlife Service, and National Park Service.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:51 | 4652468 bobcromwell
bobcromwell's picture

Bundy has failed to pay more than $1 million in fees since 1993 for his cattle to graze on public land.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:56 | 4652484 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Yes, but according to the Constitution, the land belongs to Nevada so they have no right asking for the taxes. Why don't you go pay your taxes twice in good steed to show support for them. They gladly accept donations and extra money to be fucking squandered.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:58 | 4652495 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Support Boondoggles!

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:32 | 4652808 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

What provision of the Constitution establishes that the land "belongs to Nevada"?  It is worth noting how the land that constitutes the present State of Nevada was originally attached to the United States.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:37 | 4652824 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Which is a construct.  The people own the land, not the "government".

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:37 | 4652979 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Yes, the people own the land, not Cliven Bundy.  Representatives of the people have passed laws that require users of the people's land to pay for that privilege, which Mr. Bundy has refused to do.  The owners of the land are collecting on that debt.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:58 | 4653032 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Apparently the "people" want a different solution as they have arrived in protest.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 23:43 | 4653123 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

The 14th Amendment dictates that the land is owned by Nevada. The taxes are being sought by the Federal government.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 01:53 | 4653294 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Wrong. The Constitution clearly states that any power not specifically ceded to the Federal government rests with the States and the people. 

The BLM and setting grazing fees is not mentioned in the Constitution, therefore the Feds have zero rights, authority of jurisdiction to do or say jack shit about what goes on in regards to grazing cattle in Nevada.

Period.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:00 | 4652506 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Bundy feeds us all. And just what do you produce, that can be used by other men?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:58 | 4652713 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Sloppy seconds.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:15 | 4652561 FutureShock
FutureShock's picture

This is a comment typical of the uniformed fly by media. Stupid comment BOB, to make Bundy look like the bad guy.

 Dig deeper on the purpose of the fees and how those fees starting the Gov. on buying out the ranchers with their own money instead of helping with those funds.  Read on Reid wants the land for his son Chinese solar industry game plan. 

 

Side point Bundy offered those funds to the State, he is not a deadbeat but had a reason for not giving his own money to corruption to be used against him.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:16 | 4652562 FutureShock
FutureShock's picture

duplicate

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:51 | 4652470 arby63
arby63's picture

The gubmint trolls are out in force tonight. The bottom line is the same: FUCK YOU BLM. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:05 | 4652523 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Gotta keep their reputation untarnished.  Oh, wait...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:57 | 4652474 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

It appears that Nevada sold or gave the rights to the land to the Federal Government.  The question I have is did they have that right to transfeer the property to the Federal Government when they previously sold grazing rights to people like the Bundys?  Were the Bundys compensated or consulted, when the State sold or gave away those rights to the Federal Government with the land sale?  How can the State give away property that has grazing rights without those rights passing or conveying with the land to the new owner?  Even if it is the Federar Government.

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:03 | 4652515 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

I think Bundy said there was never agreement to pay grazing rights...

but told hey are willing to pay something, but to the State of Nevada, whom they say is correct.

even though they were there first use under what would be basic common law principles which appear to have been applicable at the time the family began to make productive use of the land.

Of course city lawyer would say different...

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:16 | 4652565 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

They didn't really have a choice if they wanted statehood.  So much for the "equal footing" bullshit.  In addition, the feds broke covenant with the pioneering settlers and kept changing the rules after they were established.  It was bait and switch.  The desert tortoise thing is just an environmental fig leaf.  Incidentally, water law in the west is generally based on beneficent use, which is probably being denied Bundy, perhaps to the loss of his water rights.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:49 | 4653014 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Most of present-day Clark County was part of the Territory of Arizona when Nevada became a state.  It was later added to the State of Nevada by an act of Congress.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:57 | 4652481 messymerry
messymerry's picture

Dear Senators and Congressional Representatives,

All Federal lands except National Parks and those lands within the bounds of the District of Columbia shall be remanded back to the states immediately...and the BLM and the BIA disbanded.

Thank you,

Sincerly,

Mr. Mess with me and I won't be merry.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:08 | 4652533 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

Don't stop at National Parks.  It wrecks your cred.  They go to.  You have to break all their hooks to your state.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:34 | 4652623 messymerry
messymerry's picture

Ok by me, the States can be responsible for those parks as well.  If the States have to compete for population, they will work harder to make themselves attractive.  Hell, let's put a 30 foot wall around D.C. and make it a prison.  The "Council of Governors" can handle the common defense of the borders and affiars of State for the Republic.  All other matters are already being handled by the States anyway.  Pure redundancy, the Feds are...   ;-D

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:56 | 4652482 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

This is just a land grab, pure and simple.  The rest is just BS.  Reid should be investigated ASAP.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 19:58 | 4652498 Last of the Mid...
Last of the Middle Class's picture

Dingy Harry at his best using the "green energy" mantra to piss down our backs and tell us it's raining. Fuck him and AlGore!

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:03 | 4652511 Robert of Ottawa
Robert of Ottawa's picture

I suspect the IRS, EPA, ATF and Holder will be sent to persecute him now.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:45 | 4654325 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

How will they enforce any judgment against him? Take his cattle? Lol

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:02 | 4653644 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Interesting tidbit garnered from one of the videos is the assertion that the Walton (Walmart) family provided a $400,000 grant to the solar farm project on the condition that the BLM get the Bundy's off the property. It will be interesting if this can be proven and not just alleged. 

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:10 | 4652540 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

The undercurrent is the story here,

and perhaps it's necessary to see the new energy and momentum created today applied to specific persons in places of control who operate outside the law and outside the interests of the Nation and Her people...

and how convenient that Harry Reid is sitting in the backyards of the great people of Nevada.

The secret to a softest-landing-possible for all of us is to creatively and peacefully (but assertively) escort the false leaders out to pasture, without creating chaos.

Today, it has been demonstrated that it is possible, and using this momentum in intelligent ways is critical.

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:13 | 4652554 bobcromwell
bobcromwell's picture

Just build your house on a free public land and shoot at will,a great opportunity to get some free steak.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:28 | 4652949 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Your concentrated stupid with a side order of zero research and lack of ordinary reading skills or a .gov troll oh yeah never mind occams razor and all...

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:13 | 4652557 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

"Vote for Reid: The People's Candidate!"

 

~ Me Hung Low, Chairman, Hally Leed Le-erection Committee

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:22 | 4652935 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

Knock...knock...knock!

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:17 | 4652563 ZH11
ZH11's picture

Oh noes!!!

Libertarian whack jobs who believe in the sacred nature of property rights above the Lord himself now reveal all their ideological contradictions when the nature of common property ownership is posited against private property assumed by usage only.

The magical state of nature is horribly exposed and all the simple markers of truth are removed and a tough choice has been made on the basis of being against government more than being against common land ownership.

In the main this positive, real world examples exploding the absolute superficiality of the Libertarian ideology should help quicken the natural waning of this politics of the insane.

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:23 | 4652589 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

What we're seeing on this board is not Libertarian ideology. Any honest person who believes in private property would have removed his cattle from the public land immediately on losing the court case.

What we're seeing here is an abuse of the language of Libertarianism by people too stupid to know anything other than the fact that they're disenfranchised and will never, ever be allowed to bully other people unless they somehow magically win a "revolution". They aren't Libertarians, they're just followers without a leader.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:55 | 4653028 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

I think you're right.  Also, Bundy could have appealed the ruling and had it stayed pending appeal, and none of this would have happened.  Simply ignoring a federal court order is not a recipe for success.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:05 | 4653656 Keyser
Keyser's picture

They have been doing this for 20 years. The Bundy's have a case which the BLM refuses to accept, even though it is founded on fact and law. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:48 | 4654335 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Looks pretty successful to me

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 05:30 | 4653443 The Wedge
The Wedge's picture

"Any honest person who believes in private property would have removed his cattle from the public land immediately on losing the court case".

Oh, so if you stand up to a bully you're not honest?

 

"What we're seeing here is an abuse of the language of Libertarianism by people too stupid to know anything other than the fact that they're disenfranchised...."

Yea, it's best to be an authorized surf that thinks he or she is somehow empowered by using the boot of the state to bully others.

Spew some more rhetoric and pretend it makes you intelligent.

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:47 | 4652672 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Nice avatar Mr Marx! This is about the Constitution; most specifically the 14th Amendment. It clearly lays out land ownership and the place of the Federal Government. Your inane use of big words in circular jerking does nothing for your argument....or attempt at one. Oh noes! I got the vocab but not the premise! Marx lived off of rich parents and then turned around like the silver spoon snot nosed child that he was and thought he could create better political doctrine; arrogance personified. Well, when you can attend the best Universities via Mommy and Daddy it seems you get a first class introduction into philosophy. So from there you can ponder about all that is best for humans because YOU WERE GIVEN EVERYTHING. He never worked a day in his life. He would have better served mankind digging ditches.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:19 | 4654365 ZH11
ZH11's picture

You obvioulsy don't know too much about the life Mr Marx really lived if you think he was a rich kid who sailed through life in luxury whilst working out a few ideas on capitalism.

I'll have to change my avatar as it just induces downvotes and people reacting in a Pavlovian way when they see or hear the man.

I think I'll try to get a new one of Queen Ayn, maybe blowing Von Mises or cashing her welfare cheque...we'll see!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 05:42 | 4653457 The Wedge
The Wedge's picture

"ideological contradictions when the nature of common property ownership is posited against private property assumed by usage only"

You mean grazing rights codified by law? So wait, if I don't want the federal mafia to shake down ranchers that graze public lands, I'm actually for common property ownership?

Oh no! You have unraveled libertarianism...not.

What utter non-sense!

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:18 | 4652570 the mighty jimbo
the mighty jimbo's picture

Disgusting abuse of Govt power.  Ried is a real piece of shit. 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:19 | 4652576 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

It's worth pointing out just how little sympathy this guy's getting in comments in all the major newspapers, from the supposed "powder keg" of non-gun-registering middle class Americans. Zip. So if you're squatting on land somewhere, cursing the negros with their damn EBT cards while you suck off the public tit and thinking the militia's gonna swoop down and make you a hero, news flash - the Confederacy's been dead awhile now. Rich white plantation owners were outnumbered then, and they're even more outnumbered now.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:35 | 4652624 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Oh yes the troll patrol stands pat in agreement with the half truths and dressed up lies as presented by a dying legacy media! Why not go there along with the other paid commenters to persuade the dissipating numbers within their readership? Sucks taking in informed and researching people here with our ability to speak freely sans .gov mediation. You are wrong. You know you're wrong and it takes a special kinda shithead to keep trying. If you had the minimal amount of facts to back your argument up, the good folks here would listen. It simply is not. Alas, you fall back on the usual tripe of creating strawman arguments like racial bias and love of Confederacy, yet their utterance shall not be found within the opining people here. Save it.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:43 | 4652644 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

I'm just saying that the supposed groundswell of sympathy for this guy's "plight" in not paying his dues to use public land is not as widespread as you'd think.

Then again, I didn't shed a tear for the brainwashed cultists at Waco either, and who knew they'd inspire a whole generation of wannabe revolutionaries to do...exactly what have you guys done?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:53 | 4652699 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

This is a cowboy, farmer and American who has fed and served this country along with his family in that area for 150 yrs. it's hard to demonize him. I'm sure he has his sympathizers, but receiving half of the story as presented by news outlets with an obvious agenda does not make for a fair presentation of facts. I respect your opinion, but I unfortunately disagree.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:14 | 4652750 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

That is very tolerant of you.  I doubt that you'll be demonized for anything like they were.  Would you have capped Vicky Weaver also?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 22:30 | 4652956 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No, he likes burning children alive so much more than shooting them...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:20 | 4653830 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

My point is that our liberties have suffered more from lawyers and lobbyists than armed jackboots. I do not espouse violence beyond personal self defense so pontificate all you want. This goes hot and the lawyers will come out in full force and begin working on gun legislation.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 23:33 | 4653108 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I'm on my third degree with a doctorate to follow as I fully understand that the pen is mightier than the sword and eloquence backed by knowledge will slay far more trolls than any boom stick.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:09 | 4652740 One of We
One of We's picture

Well done defending against the trolls though I think ignoring them is the better tact.  

Interesting the trolls seem to have ramped up their attention to ZH the last few days.  I suppose we should be flattered but I'm not and wish they would crawl back into their mom's basement.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:40 | 4652643 muleskinner
muleskinner's picture

You're obviously a dumbass, but that's ok, the world is filled with dumbasses just like you.

 

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 20:50 | 4652686 luckystrike6
luckystrike6's picture

guess that makes us a majority, huh?

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:44 | 4652848 homiegot
homiegot's picture

A majority of dumbfucks. You are King Dumbfuck.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:18 | 4652764 homiegot
homiegot's picture

Hey dumbfuck.The BLM left. Get back to your latte and pedicure.

Sat, 04/12/2014 - 21:22 | 4652770 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

perhaps you could elaborate on how your comment has anything to do with the topic at hand?

I read a lot of the comments on major MSM sites and most were people making fair points and the majority saw the BLMs actions as abusive, even if they did not agree with Bundy's cause. even the left wing propaganda fish wrap media matters was split down the middle...

also, I did not see any CSA flags in the crowed nor did I get the impression that Privin Bundy was particularly concerned with cursing negros and their damn ebt cards. of course bringing up the Confederacy in the first place doesn't really make sense considering Nevada was never a part of it.though I suppose you could make a case for him being racist if some of the BLM agents on site were black and he was angry with them.

but that might be a bit of a stretch. 

I admit I don't know anything about his finical status but I do know for a fact that he does not own a plantation...

lastly he is an independent rancher, the last of his kind in the area thanks to the federal government who has put the rest of them out of business. I have to ask have you ever spent time on a cattle ranch? I have and I can assure you when in that business you hustle all day, every day there is no tit sucking.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 05:12 | 4653424 The Wedge
The Wedge's picture

What the hell are you babbling about. The issue is grazing rights, which Bundy OWNS and a government using phony endangerment to take control of the land. It was a mafia tactic and this family stood up to the bully.

 Straw man, the lowest rhetorical devices.

This is tired rhetoric. You may as well of just said Bundy hates brown people. But you did use similar epitaphs didn't you. Like rich white plantation owners and cursing ebt negros. What else did you use...oh yea the confederacy is dead.

Rhetorical non-sense!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 06:11 | 4653473 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

rights to public lands are leased, not owned.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!