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Why The Standoff At The Bundy Ranch Is A Very Big Deal

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Krieger of The Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

If you haven’t been following the unfolding drama at the Bundy Ranch about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas you need to start now. The escalating confrontation between irate local residents and federal agents of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has the potential to take a very dangerous turn for the worse at any moment, as hundreds of militia members from states across the country are expected to descend upon the area and make a stand with 67-year-old Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy.

Before I get into any sort of analysis about what this means within the bigger picture of American politics and society, we need a little background on the situation. The saga itself has been ongoing for two decades and the issue at hand is whether or not Mr. Bundy can graze his 900 head of cattle on a particular section of public lands in Clark County. Cliven Bundy has been ordered to stop on environmental grounds to protect the desert tortoise, but he has stood his ground time and time again. As a result, the feds have now entered the area and are impounding his cattle. According to CNN, Between Saturday and Wednesday, contracted wranglers impounded a total of 352 cattle. The Bundy family, as well as a variety of local residents have already had confrontations with the BLM agents. Tasers have been used and some minor injuries reported. Most significantly, militia members from across the country have already descended upon the area and it seems possible that hundreds may ultimately make it down there.

To me, the argument of who is right and who is wrong in this situation is the least interesting part of the story. I have noted time and time again that the feds are becoming increasingly out of control and belligerent to American citizens. We know the stories (think Aaron Swartz) and we know the overall trend trend. However, the reason the Bundy Ranch confrontation is so interesting, is that for whatever reason this particular incident seems to be striking a chord of dissent. It is often times the most random, unforeseen and innocuous things that spark social/political movements. This standoff has it all.

From CBS News:

LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that two militia members from Montana and one from Utah have arrived at Cliven Bundy’s ranch.

“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” Ryan Payne of the West Mountain Rangers told the Review-Journal. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

 

Payne said that militias from New Hampshire, Texas and Florida are likely to join and stand with Bundy and stay at his ranch.

 

“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne told the Review-Journal, adding that hundreds of militia members are expected.

 

Lawmakers are adding their voices into the fray, criticizing the federal cattle roundup fought by Cliven Bundy who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

 

Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn’t be penalized by an “overreaching” agency.

 

Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called “an atmosphere of intimidation,” resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled.

The fact that a U.S. Senator and the Governor are publicly coming out agains the feds is in my opinion a very big deal and may signal the beginning of a true fracturing in the social fabric. Something that I have been expecting for many years.

Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association and remained “extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure.”

 

The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing.

 

Sandoval said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in “First Amendment area” south of the resort city of Mesquite.

 

The site “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution” and should be dismantled, Sandoval said.

People being rounded up like cattle in these bullshit “First Amendment areas” is completely unacceptable.

BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon and Park Service spokeswoman Christie Vanover have told reporters during daily conference calls that free-speech areas were established so agents could ensure the safety of contractors, protesters, the rancher and his supporters.

 

Meanwhile, federal officials say 277 cows have been collected. Cannon said state veterinarian and brand identification officials will determine what becomes of the impounded cattle.

The kindling for social upheaval has been growing in America for quite some time. Disrespectful and ignorant statements from billionaire oligarchs like Sam Zell only make it worse. The question in my mind has always been what will the catalyst be to spark the brushfire? Will it be the Bundy Ranch? We’ll have to wait and see.

Personally, I hope cooler heads prevail and there is no violence, because once you head down the road of violent confrontation between the people and the feds you are opening up a can of worms that will not easily be bottled up again. In such a situation, everybody loses. However, my long-term fear is that unless the government and its puppet masters on Wall Street and elsewhere in big business change course, social upheaval will prove inevitable, whether the Bundy Ranch sparks it, or some other incident down the road. These are troubled times and they are likely going to get worse before they get better.

This picture basically says it all:

Bundy ranch

Full article here.

+++++++++++

The latest news is a 'win' for Bundy for now...

The gathering of rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle in northeast Clark County has been stopped by the director of the Bureau of Land Management.

 

Bundy is meeting this morning with Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie to discuss a possible solution to his dispute with the BLM.

 

Metro Officer Jesse Roybal confirmed that Gillespie was in the Bunkerville area this morning to meet with Bundy.

 

The BLM had been using contract cowboys to round up Bundy's 900 head of cattle that have been grazing over 600,000 square acres in northeast Clark County for more than 20 years without his payment of grazing fees.

 

Neil Kornze, director of the BLM, made the following statement this morning:

 

"As we have said from the beginning of the gather to remove illegal cattle from federal land consistent with court orders, a safe and peaceful operation is our number one priority. After one week, we have made progress in enforcing two recent court orders to remove the trespass cattle from public lands that belong to all Americans.

 

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public.

 

"We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner.

 

Ranching has always been an important part of our nation’s heritage and continues throughout the West on public lands that belong to all Americans. This is a matter of fairness and equity, and we remain disappointed that Cliven Bundy continues to not comply with the same laws that 16,000 public lands ranchers do every year. After 20 years and multiple court orders to remove the trespass cattle, Mr. Bundy owes the American taxpayers in excess of $1 million. The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially."

 

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Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:24 | 4653695 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Bingo. And the Federal judge on the case refuses to accept that the Bundy's grazing rights were grandfathered in long before there was a BLM. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:07 | 4653798 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I agree that his rights were Grandfathered long ago.  But, being he openly maintained, used the Land for 100+ then he should have been at least granted Adverse Possession of that Land.

In many States they have what they call Adverse Possession.  If you openly maintain and use Land for over a certain amount of years it becomes yours.  In Maryland it is 20 years.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:52 | 4654045 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Bundy does not want the land.  If he were to be given the land, then he would have to pay property taxes.  He wants to send his cattle onto public land for cheap fees.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:05 | 4654087 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

AND to be subsidized by tax payers. 

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 02:03 | 4706709 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

he IS a tax-payer and making him pay a 3rd time is wrong. 1 time for the original rights, 1 more time in his taxes, and now a 3rd time to agree to an unlawful contract that demands a fee while simultaneously DENYING him access?

You're off your rocker. His legal footing is solid. His access to the land can't be stopped by BLM. They can use guns, but not the law, to do this. Then they'll face guns in return.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:05 | 4654082 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

We "first Americans" feel NO sympathy for this corporate cattle mooch. Fuck him. 

We do have a fight but this is not it. Let's ban all corporate welfare, right? 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:40 | 4654312 WarPony
WarPony's picture

You forgot the FREEMAN STANDOFF where the Militia shut down the Waco Blood Games - http://tech.mit.edu/V116/N16/militia.16w.html - and this Nevada thing was no Blood Game. What we need is a Militia event in D.C., preferably during a State of the Union address - a target rich environment.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:00 | 4653635 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

A link to the Warranty deed showing title would be helpful.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:25 | 4653697 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Grazing rights don't require a deed, but you already knew this, right? 

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:12 | 4653812 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

The Title to the Land obviously shows the Federal Government as the current Owner of the Land.  It also shows how they obtained Title in the "Being" clause, which also refers to where the previous Title was recorded and the description of the Land.

The issue is not who is in possession of the Title to the Land or who is the current Owner but what rights and easements were on that Land at the time of transfeer, as all of those rights and easements which encumber the Land also pass with the transfeer of the Title to that land to the new Owner.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:13 | 4653938 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

In the west the land grant states were variously compelled to cede their unowned open range lands to the federal gummint as a condition of admission to the union (statehood).  Each state wound up negotiating with the federal government individually and, generally, at different times, as their local populations reached critical levels and local and national level circumstances, technologies, economies, constituencies and ideologies evolved.  Some states were able to cut better deals than others.  The new states had to agree to particular terms, despite the "equal footing" thing in the Constitution (you know, that growing, changeable and divinely inspired document that helps us be speshul!).  Among other terms, some states got back lands for one school section per township-range (look up "public land survey system"), some got two and Utah was blessed with four (think "state lands" - the school sections were supposed to provide revenue to fund public schooling (if not education!)), although one of the particular terms in the statehood language in Utah's Constitution had to do with giving up plural marriage.  As it turns out, this was to some extent a ripoff of the land grant states with high percentages of federal lands because the school sections were not guaranteed perpetual access and could be land locked, rendering them essentially undevelopable, if they are trapped inside some exclusionary federal land administrative classification (such as federal parks, monuments, military reservations(?), wilderness areas, forests, and heaven knows what other s).

 One other thing to consider in this is that the feds are the 900 # gorilla in the western states land management and you need to toe the line when negotiating any development activity involving access across or impacts to their lands.  This gives them some negotiated hooks into many deals above and beyond their considerable regulatory/environmental stroke.

They are not above fomenting environmental hue and cry for an agency objective by manipulating local sportsman orgs (including licensed guides; anything for _____ (fill in fish/game species) conservation so I can catch/shoot more (the "hook & bullet" community of their parlance) at the cost of more liberty (usually in the form of constraints on development).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/william-norman-grigg/wounded-knee-ii/

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:07 | 4654224 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

"...despite the "equal footing" thing in the Constitution (you know, that growing, changeable and divinely inspired document that helps us be speshul!)"

 

Yeah who needs the Constitution - I mean it doesn't even mention Jesus.

 

And those National Parks - what a waist!  They should be fracked and strip mined into oblivion.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 21:12 | 4655422 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

Actually, I prefer the Articles of Confederation, under which we won the revolution.  I notice that the Pres wasn't a God under that doc.  Say, oh wizened and blissful one, pray, inform us why, if the CONstitution is so damn important, your socialist elitists and cronies join the GOP faux patriot elitists and cronies in pissing all over that exceptionalism creating doc that stopped hanging by a thread and fell to irrelevance a long time ago.  Hey, I have no problem with using the Constitution, flawed as it is, especially as originally drafted, if only the government would implement it fundamentally, as the Founders intended, as a limit on a government with enumerated powers, and as the minimum of the people's individual rights.  But no, they gotta nickel and dime everything.  "Emanations from the penumbra" my foot!  Imagine that, big gummint deciding in favor of big gummint.

Say, you seem to be full of blissful righteousness regarding subsidizing enterprises via public lands.  Here's a flash - I agree with you.  Isn't that wonderful?  We're anti-subsidy bunkies!  You do agree that we should trash subsidies, don't you?  Like all subsidies, not just those on public lands.  That's zero, zip, nada!  Right?

"And those National Parks - what a waist!"  Whatta ya mean?  I haven't put on a pound in years!

Seriously, though, I think it isn't proper to subsidize anyone's recreation either.  Since you are a genuine anti-subsidy warrior, I'm confident you would agree, wouldn't you?  If we absolutely have to have parks then at least let's make sure that they are state parks.  Since the parks are "for the people", my preference is for giving them back "to the people" rather than making them national sacrifice areas to be fucked up by the latest fashionable crackpot egghead scheme of the environmental Gestapo.  I'm mean, really, all they are now is a pretext to manage everybody else's land around the parks, which they are playing God on.

Since you know so much about what's going on in the west, you must be a westerner, right?

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:27 | 4654256 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

A lot of the land in the US was purchased by the US Govt with tax payer funds.  Additionally, a lot of development wasFederally funded: water projects, agricultural projects, highway projects, land improvement and access projects, flood control and irrigation projects, etc...

Many to benefit a small group of wealthy Corporations, Business, and Ranchers and Farmers.

Many years ago the US Army built forts and had patrols to protect the inhabitants.  This was very expensive.

These Ranchers wern't complaining when the Govtment was protecting their backs, and rounding up Indians to herd them on to reservations,.

Welfare for the rich.

 

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 01:47 | 4706688 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Harry Reid, stealing that land, is the fucking rich on welfare you paid for, you dumb fuck.

"These Ranchers wern't complaining when the Govtment was protecting their backs, and rounding up Indians to herd them on to reservations"

Your only valid point.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:29 | 4653563 Drifter
Drifter's picture

The problem isn't in Bunkerville Nevada, it's in Washington D.C. where this cattle rustling episode was authorized and called off when armed citizens showed up. Unfortunately not facing down those BLM agents, just blocking traffic on I15, and that ended when they were ordered to vacate the road, in other words they were pushed around, not making any sort of stand anywhere, probably wise in that case being way outgunned by govt snipers on hilltops and all manner govt goons staging not far away.

Outgunned won't work. It spooked govt into backing down this time, but I suspect it'll be the last time. It was highly embarrassing to huge inflated egos, they're really pissed now.

Will this precipitate a 3 million armed citizen confrontation in DC where the problem originates from? Probably not. People can't get their minds around a confrontation that large.

They'll claim victory in Bunkerville when it really wasn't a victory because nothing really changed. Federal govt still going after Bundy, court case not dropped, Reid still wants that land, state doing nothing to stop federal govt.

This wasn't a defeat for the govt, just a setback. They'll regroup and try something else not so foolish and amateurish as cattle rustling, which by they way was a hanging crime in those parts 150 yrs ago.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:30 | 4653568 Flagit
Flagit's picture

A Lunatic
Throw Harry Reid in fucking prison......

 

Drifter
Reid still wants that land, state doing nothing to stop federal govt.

 

better yet,

since Reid is behind this whole mess, i think we should dip him in a molten vat of his jew gold.

we can then have a living statue of his last moments of a life dedicated to greed. we will call it, "Golden Boy".

Senator Harry Greed

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:42 | 4653587 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Go ahead, what's stopping you?

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:02 | 4653785 Flagit
Flagit's picture

no gold : (

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:30 | 4653708 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

better yet 

Senator Geary

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:40 | 4653581 esum
esum's picture

The Fed government violated the Constitiution when Nevada was created and kept 86% of the state as federal land. The constitution calls for the land to be ceded to the state. So from day one the Feds are on the wrong side of the law. Unfortunately no one has raised the issue in this case. Bundy is actually correct under the law. Good Luck. 

“The United States government owns and has broad authority to regulate federal lands in Nevada,” the BLM arrogantly insists. “In response to challenges of federal ownership of the lands in Nevada, the 9th circuit held that the federal government owned all federal lands in Nevada, and that those lands did not pass to the state upon statehood.”

This is in direct conflict with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the Constitution.


Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:18 | 4653597 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Ok, now who is going to force the federal govt to turn those tracts of land over to Nevada?

Citing the constitution is great.

Who is going to enforce it?

That's the central issue here and for the entire "constitution" movement.

WHO is going to FORCE the federal govt to follow the constitution?

The answer of course is nobody. You can't make people do what they don't want to do.

So what's the answer? Simple. States have to man up, kick the feds out, and TAKE the land.

Chance of that happening? Around zero.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:16 | 4654116 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

That clause has nothing to do with federal ownership of land.  It's about direct federal rule in D.C.  It was the federal government that first procured the land from Mexico for the United States.  The federal government was the first owner of the land, as a federal territory before it became a state.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 15:14 | 4654530 Drifter
Drifter's picture

That means Nevada is still a federal territory then.

When statehood is conferred by congress, all land within the new state border leaves federal govt ownership. Or that's how it's supposed to work.

Some people believe all western states are not really states, still federal territories truth be known. It would explain some of the weird stuff going on out there.

But land rights purchased in the 1800s are still valid and should be honored. Should be.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 01:44 | 4706683 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No, the Clause is the first & last authority on the matter: anything in contradiction is illegal.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:41 | 4653584 Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

I  always wonder how many pigs are on this site soaking up the opinions of those that have more on their minds than getting to walmart on time for the graveyard shift?

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:48 | 4653596 Loophole
Loophole's picture

As Ayn Rand pointed out, the notion of private property is a contradiction because the right of property is by its nature private. Not everyone can eat the same apple, drive the same car, sleep in the same bed, etc. Those who create those values or obtain them as gifts or in trade from the creators have the right of use and possession.

So-called public property is just loot, property stolen by the govt one way or another from private citizens.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:18 | 4654120 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

It was won from Mexico in a war before the Bundy's arrived.  It was a federal territory before there were Bundy's.  In fact, the State of Nevada was created before Bundy claims his family arrived.  Clark County was added to Nevada by Congress before Bundy claims his family arrived.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:54 | 4653617 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Clinton, Bush, & Obama, The Feds, Wall Street and The Bernanke owe this country about 50 trillion of lost wealth. Give is back the 50 trillion and I will cut you a check for that cool million you seek.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 08:57 | 4653625 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

I figure the score now is about like this:

Bankster/Elite 100000000000

We the people  1

 I fervently hope the we the people have started a trend.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:10 | 4653662 d edwards
d edwards's picture

I'd like to see exactly how they figure he owes $1 million-hell Al Not so Sharpton owes $2 mill in back taxes, Warren Buffet is fighting the feds over a couple BILLION I believe, so WTF?

 

Also, the county sheriff (elected by the people) has ultimate authority in his county and can tell the feds to get the hell out-it's been done before.

 

Power to the People! (there's a blast from the past)

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 18:36 | 4655072 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

"Power to the People! (there's a blast from the past)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvlBS4PMF0

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:15 | 4653672 yogibear
yogibear's picture

People are sick and tired of the Wall Street working together with bought and paid for politicians.

The extraction of wealth is unprecedented. Turning the middle-class into the poor with exporting jobs and importing cheaper labor/outsourcing. 

Anything can  and will trigger a nothing to loose event. People know where the banksters/elite reside.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:19 | 4653683 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

A revolt over a wealthy rancher's right to free grazing lands??

LOL .....Dream on.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:05 | 4653790 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Yep he's just sitting back knee deep in cows shit working 14 hour days to keep his business barely afloat amongst the sea of regulation and taxation. You should quit your job and go run cattle. It's such a Cush job, ya know! How's that steak you had last night? I wonder where the fuck that came from.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:09 | 4653946 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Of course Clive has to fill out a few forms to collect his welfare:

 

Ranching is yet another form of welfare

 

Despite the cowboy's image as a rugged, independent individual, a host of government subsidies keep him propped up in the saddle. The western rancher is dependent on what is, in essence, a welfare program.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:49 | 4654038 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

You can make this claim for damn near anyone who attempts to develop anything on (or perhaps even near) any public lands (including state land) in the west, and it is bullshit.  Westerners didn't set up the land management structure in the west, it wast dealt them, and it was a bait and switch from the gitgo, more designed to fit the investment needs of the Yankee fat cats/politicos of post-bellum USA than the settler serf mundanes that tried to eke out a living in the great American desert.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:33 | 4654292 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Now lets add up these basic annual costs:

Cow $154 Feed $365 Bull  $60 Labor $150 pickup $17 Vet  $10 Total $756 per head cost per cow

So how does a common rancher stay in business?  Appreciation in the value of his land.  The cattle operation itself has little, if any, margin ? far less than the potential income from selling the hay, grass, and cows to someone else.  But the value of the land keeps rising far faster than the liability from raising cattle.And then there is the estate tax.  A ranch that may be worth only $750,000 in its ability to produce grass and hay for cattle is now worth $7,500,000.  Mom and Pop can give only $3.5M to the son tax free.  So when they die the IRS is after the son for half of the remaining $4M. 

Where can the son get $2M to pay the inheritance tax?  Not by raising cattle - I guarantee it!  The only place to get that kind of money is to sell some or all of the ranch.  And if he sells any of it he can no longer make a living. 

http://montanacowboycollege.com/ranching_economics.htm

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:36 | 4654300 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Nice if you can save on the biggest expense - feed.

Oh BTW thanks to Uncle Obama and the GOP -they can now pass on the $7 million estate tax free!

 

WOW My heart breaks for these poor Ranchers and their kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 18:39 | 4655077 AllTheMarbles
AllTheMarbles's picture

Troll GTFO

I hate to ask this cause I know what the response will be......but has anyone taken on the task of ID'ing the trolls like......

TPTB_r_TBTF

and keeping a running list...so we can track them down when the time comes?

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 19:05 | 4655135 AllTheMarbles
AllTheMarbles's picture

.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:02 | 4654076 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Yeah, on the public tit, aka, public lands. He is just another corporate mooch!

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 01:39 | 4706675 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

which means your tax dollars help lower the cost of your meal, otherwise you'd pay 0.0000001% less tax and you'd pay $50/pound for beef. Great choice, fucko.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:39 | 4653872 STP
STP's picture

When they pass enough laws, you'll likely (if not already) be a criminal too and when the govvermin-t brings their army of jackboot thugs in armored MRAP's and helicopters, YOU'LL wish you had the support of 'We The People'.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 09:48 | 4653744 blindman
blindman's picture

Wounded Knee Incident 1973 The Native American Genocide 5of5 - YouTube
from Sr. Lion
http://vimeo.com/55323163

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 10:47 | 4653895 The Persistent ...
The Persistent Vegetable's picture

 The DEA is staking out garden stores hoping to catch evil marijuana growers. The NSA is spying on us all. The empire has its tentacles in every part of the world. The three branches of government are bought and paid for.

But its a deadbeat rancher who has the militias grabbing their guns? If these are the people that are going to save our country, we are well and truly fucked.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:16 | 4653967 STP
STP's picture

I beg to differ.  First, he's not a "deadbeat rancher", he's a man who got sick and tired of being pushed around by a thug-acrocy, hell bent on making him admit defeat.   And when they sent in the storm troopers with their 'shock and awe' tactics, their guns and helicopters, he told them FUCK YOU!

The reason the militias and WE THE PEOPLE supported him is because WE ARE FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF BEING TAXED, TRAFFIC TICKETED AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY AND BEING PUT INTO A BOX THAT GETS SMALLER AND SMALLER BY THE DAY!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:52 | 4654046 The Persistent ...
The Persistent Vegetable's picture

Gotcha. Tired of being taxed and traffic ticketed. Not tired of being spied on and harassed for buying fertilizer that might be used to grow marijuana. Not tired of having your phone calls monitored or people being killed all over the world in your name. Not tired of the fact that only legislation blessed by the 1 percent gets passed.

I understand now.

 

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:02 | 4654071 STP
STP's picture

No you don't understand.  I know all about that.  I've been here for years and believe me, I'm just as pissed about those issues as the rest of the ZH crowd.

What happened in Nevada, was far more personal and unlike the spying (and what's YOUR solution?) this pissed off a lot of people.  Add the media blackout (until it got wa-aay too big to ignore) and the realization that this was very close to going beyond 'protesting' and I'd say the real American people are fed up with the cronyism, fixed markets and the vast amounts of government waste at all levels.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:02 | 4654214 The Persistent ...
The Persistent Vegetable's picture

My solution assumes that we still live in a semi functioing republic and that votes count. DO NOT vote for anyone with a D or an R next to their name. If you are liberal, vote Green, conservative vote Libertarian. Congress has a 98% reelection rate. whats their incentive to change? There is none. Too many of us act like Romney or Obama is an actual choice, which is bullshit.

The second part is that people like me (who believe in high taxes on the rich and universal healthcare) need to look at people like you and note that we have a lot in common. i want the empire to end, i want the fed gone, i want the NSA,the DEA, and homeland security sent straight to the dustbin of history. People like you need to do the same with me. Focus on what we have in common, not on what seperates us.

If we do that, change is possible, assuming the process is not completely rigged.

I'm not holding my breath that will happen.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 01:32 | 4706668 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

High taxes on the rich only lead to 1 outcome: the rich leave with their money and don't pay the tax. Then you have lost all the jobs too because poor people aren't hiring.

That's the facts.

You have to offer a fair tax to the rich and let them choose it. You are not in charge, they are able to hold their money by force no matter what you do. If you come with guns to take it they send guns and kidnap your children.

It takes but a few arrangements with Child Protective Services and with your children kidnapped by law, you will do anything you are told, even lick shit off the ground on command, or your children will be adopted out to meth-heads and die there of drug overdoses or neglect, starvation, locked in a cage.

If you step out of line, police show up and execute you on the spot.

That's how the law works right now.

And their payment is the high taxes you demanded.

See how that works? Still want those high taxes for the "rich" ? They get loop-holes, they can afford the high tax but you lose everything. Your children, house, car, wife, everything taken at gun-point and anyone/everyone shot who says ONE WORD in the face of those SWAT fuckers to resist. They'll pop 2 caps in your forehead before you can spit out "I have rights!". You have bullets in your face, you don't have rights.

Remember what those high taxes pay for. Storm troopers who are given a hero's parade for shooting you in front of your children. Top priority every time. Also your neighbor's kids because they went to the wrong house first. That's OK, they get TWO Hero Parades now.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:02 | 4654073 Haloween1
Haloween1's picture

So, Persistent, please tell us what you have been doing to "get the ball rolling"? 

 

Thought so.

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:01 | 4654067 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Bundy is just as wrong as the corporate fucks who enjoy their welfare, aka, tax breaks. Bundy should take his cattle private and stop being a mooch on the public tit!

There is a fight but this is not it. He is wrong. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:31 | 4654286 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

It may not have been the best fight. I grant you that. However the patriots don't care. They are just looking for any excuse to get the party started. Lol

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 06:56 | 4656160 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

yeah it makes you wonder...and why are we sending Billions in aide to the Thug IMF/NSA/CIA assisted NeoNazis in the Ukraine-WE NEED THAT MONEY BACK IN OUR WALLETS

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:10 | 4653950 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

It recently came out thanks to information leaked by  Edward Snowden that the "black budget" last year was a massive 52 billion dollars. This is the money used in "secret" spy operations, and it is enough to send shivers down the back of those that have read about the totalitarian society of Oceania described in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. In Orwell's novel, all citizens of Oceania are monitored by cameras and are fed fabricated news stories by the government. More on how we are creating an Orwellian state in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/09/are-we-creating-orwellian-society...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:17 | 4653970 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I'm a taxpayer.  I'll waive my portion of the 1 million dollar fine.

There's more than enough room for cows, windmills and the turtle.  What are the cows going to do?  Tip them over?  This whole fight is over blm not wanting to step in cow pies. LOL.

I, unfort, do NOT want cooler heads to prevail.  As far as i'm concerned we need to get the ball rolling now.  Like BEFORE we have 50,000 mini nuke armed drones flying around.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:30 | 4654155 JR
JR's picture

Zactly! "Cooler heads" have always gotten us into trouble. Good post!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 11:58 | 4654061 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Fuck Bundy. He needs to get his cattle off of public land. Cattle fucks up everything. I don't care about higher beef prices, so what!

Tired of ranchers being subsidized by tax payers. Tired of all corporate welfare. Why won't Bundy "stand up on his own two feet" and take his cattle to private property? 

I am the state...sort of. Aren't you? Can I run my cattle on the freeway medians? Why not? 

Not a vegan but fuck the cattle just the same. If I want beef I get a calf and raise it for slaughter. Be subversive...grow your own. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 19:21 | 4655170 AllTheMarbles
AllTheMarbles's picture

ID'ing trolls like TPTB_r_TBTF, MrButtoMcFarty, Ban KKiller, YouAreBliss etc., etc…

Maybe create a running list for each ZH post would be the way to go. Doesn't seem to hard to do the ID'ing

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 20:24 | 4655306 PERSAE
PERSAE's picture

SUNSHINE is the best disinfectant [Vancouver Stock Exchange executive, c. 1970's 'ish]. 

 

Moreover, look on the brighter side of recent events:  there are ever decreasing numbers of mortals left to lie to.

 

Now, focus on the game please and not a popcorn vender.

 

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention.

 

The Eagle & Serpent see All ...

 

THUS SPAKE THE ARYAN

 

Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number,
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many — they are few.

 

~ Percy Bysshe Shelley, “The Mask of Anarchy”

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 06:43 | 4656157 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

the Ranchers no doubt hate people on welfare-but dont mind getting a little bit of it if it comes thier way   hypocrites

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 01:26 | 4706660 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Excellent. From now on you pay $50 per pound of beef, never less. Ever.

You first.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:05 | 4654088 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

"Now Git Yur Govt Hands off my Free Grazing on Govtment Land"

or I'll s.....

 



 "Lawmakers are adding their voices into the fray, criticizing the federal cattle roundup fought by Cliven Bundy who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas." IS THAT PUBLIC AS IN GOVT OWNED? HOW DOES 'HE' HAVE THOSE RIGHTS AND NO ONE ELSE?????



Mr Bundy - How much do you make each year on your 900 head of cattle. That are fed for free on 'Tax Payer' owned land???? BIG RANCHER WELFARE! WHAT A FREELOADER!!!!



 

 

 

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:12 | 4654109 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

Piss off back to the church of big government huffington sock puppet.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:54 | 4654930 ATG
ATG's picture

Public is not government.

Government is not God.

Neither are you.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:19 | 4654090 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

"Cannon said Bundy racked up more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees over the years while disregarding several court orders to remove his animals.
Bundy estimates the unpaid fees total about $300,000. He notes that his Mormon family’s 19th centur
y melon farm and ranch operation in surrounding areas predates creation of the BLM in 1946." Oh I see he is a Mormon so has a God given right to use any Govt land as HE wishes! For free!! Makes sense

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:06 | 4654091 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

"Bundy is currently embroiled in a spat with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over his long standing refusal to acknowledge a 1993 modification to grazing rights on land that Bundy asserts has been in his family since 1870" OH REALLY IN YOUR FAMILY??? AND YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING TAXES ON THIS PROPERTY? WHERE IS YOUR DEED? I CAN CLAIM MY FAMILY OWNED THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE BECAUSE WE DROVE ACROSS IT A FEW TIMES - SO WHAT? THIS IS 'PUBLIC' TAX PAYER OWNED LAND! THAT YOU HAVE BEEN USING FOR FREE. WHAT IF THE AMERICAN INDIANS RECLAIMED ALL THEIR LAND? HUH BIG GUY??? THEY HAD IT BEFORE THE MORMONS WERE EVEN A TWINKLE IN JOSEPH SMITH'S EYE.http://www.infowars.com/supporters-rally-to-defend.../

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:11 | 4654105 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

drinkin in the morning

a little hair of the dog

he's sweet as a bird but smells like a hog

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:25 | 4654127 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Corporate Welfare Lover

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 06:41 | 4656154 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

cant beleive the racist comments-WE stole the land from the Natiive Americans-and then killed most of them off.....yet you people whine and piss when it happens to you. HYPOCRITES

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:07 | 4654093 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Watch the video -and all the 'GOD HAS GIVEN US THIS LAND" - BS!!! 1st Amendment rights? To trespass on Govt land - I seem to remember some older folks protesting on some Govt property. Now Serving time in a Federal Prison. Didn't see any right wing 'Red Dawn' Militias come to their 'rescue'? http://www.king5.com/news/local/Sentencing-day-for-elderly-Bangor-protesters-118776574.html

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:10 | 4654104 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I understand some of your comments against Bundy.  I will have to overlook the premise (grazing for free etc) and look at the bigger picture.  No one is standing up to the gov't.  The longer we don't the worse it will get.  So therefore I am total support of Bundy.  If for nothing else it shows that yes you can win against these tyrants.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:15 | 4654113 STP
STP's picture

Boy, the trolls are coming out in force this morning.  It must be double time for the paid government shills here, arguing against Bundy and what happened in Neveda.

You will enjoy the feel of gravel in your face, a knee in your back and a boot on your neck one day, because it's little sycophants like you, that suck up to authority and obediently toeing the line like a good little serf. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:18 | 4654919 ATG
ATG's picture

Unarmed Ammon Bundy on highway right of way and his own land already did get attacked by K9s, confonted by camo'd snipers, tazed and body slammed to the ground, with knees on his head, neck and spine. So did his Aunt, a cancer survivor, and a pregnant woman:

http://bit.ly/QkHNMU

http://bit.ly/QdJ3RK

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:22 | 4654131 European American
European American's picture

Date: Saturday, 12 April 2014
Time: 1840 ET
To: Steve Quayle
From Doug Hagmann

At 1750 hours ET, I was contacted by my source within the Department of Homeland Security regarding the current situation at the Bundy Ranch. To put it bluntly, the people are being hoodwinked into believing that the situation is being resolved. It is not. It is a strategic de-escalation to fool the public. This source stated that the retreat of the BLM agents and the release of the cattle was actually crafted as a potential plan yesterday (Friday, 11 April 2014) based on the following:

1. A military assessment of satellite and drone surveillance imagery of the “patriot resistance. Drones under the control of the U.S. military were in use, taking real-time photographic images of not just the activity at the ranch, but "identifying the protesters, any arms and any supplies they might have or be carrying. “Mission accomplished.”
2. Real-time communication intercepts between patriots on-site and their off-site support;
3. Active monitoring of internet traffic regarding the coverage of events at ranch;
4. The monitoring of real-time video from the scene.

This source stated that a response by the patriot movement was anticipated, although exceeded their expectations. Although this was a real operation, they also ran this as a test case for future government operations once they saw the response. They were also actively managing the media, in some cases threatening to cut off White House access to anyone covering the event.

Despite this, the coverage by the alternative media began to create a public relations problem that was not easily managed. Note the lack of acknowledgment by the White House regarding this event. They are intentionally framing it as a state issue, despite the fact that all federal response has been and continues to be from the White House. There is a reason for this – a reason that has not been identified in any of the public reports to date. I will explain in further detail in a follow-up report on Sunday, after this source attends [redacted] to obtain more specific information about future federal operations. Regardless, according to this source, the government will take back ‘their land’ as they must to fulfill international obligations. It was never about grazing rights or anything other than (1) “securing clear title” to the land, and (2) further demonizing any patriotic resistance. It is my understanding, based on the information from this source, that it is a critical task to create a situation that will also advance their agenda of gun control and confiscation.

A more detailed report will follow on Sunday, 13 April 2014, with additional and much more specific information about their inside plans and future operations.PLEASE MAKE THIS VIRAL!

Apr 12, 2014

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:11 | 4654905 ATG
ATG's picture

If true, this is a violation of posse comitatus like Waco.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:27 | 4654145 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

"Asked if other Nevada cattlemen were as angry with the federal government as Bundy, Torell said, "absolutely not."

It's true, he said, that many NCA members are disgruntled at having to deal with BLM's bureaucracy. But, he noted, 87 percent of Nevada land is public land, so cattlemen cannot survive on private land alone. "It's important for our permitees to work with the land management agencies. We want to be good stewards of the land -- to protect natural resources.""

 

Translated: We really enjoy making millions grazing our thousands of cattle on these public lands for free. And look forward to MORE OF THIS GOVERNMENT MILLIONAIRE WELFARE!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:23 | 4654260 ATG
ATG's picture

You prefer to pay $50 a pound for beef to protect hundreds of desert tortoises in their care BLM destroyed?

http://bit.ly/1hLGcWh

This was yet another Fed land-grab by "public servants" who think they have the authority to tell others how and where to live and vote, while enriching their own pockets by misusing their authority:

http://bit.ly/1gUuXL3

Lucky for most Americans, this time it was foiled by a few hundred people willing to stand up for what's right.

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:48 | 4654336 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

It ain't the BLS I'm worried about 

Supreme Court Gives Monsanto Full Ability to Sue Farmers

Do you remember the 2011 lawsuit from the Organic Seed Growers and Trade Association 80+ plaintiffs (farmers and small businesses) against Monsanto? They were fighting biotech giant Monsanto's ability to sue them for patent infringement when genetically modified seeds inadvertently appear in organic/conventional fields. 

Yes, were talking about the wind or insects carrying GM seeds onto another farm, which to them is considered contamination. But instead of the ability for the farmers to sue for a ruined field, they can be cleaned out in court for not having permission to plant patented seeds. Monsanto workers have been foundtrespassing and gathering evidence on farmers' properties. The lawsuit had sought protection from this overreach, as Monsanto has filed 140 of these suits and settled 700 without suing.

 

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/01/supreme-court-gives-monsanto-full.html

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:05 | 4654894 ATG
ATG's picture

Absolutely.

Should put to rest those anti-Bundy Ranch arguments two Federal Courts found in favour of the BLM.

Only Constitutional government with jury trials of peers can defend, preserve and protect US against all enemies, foreign and domestic.    

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:29 | 4654153 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

With our huge budget deficit. Maybe it's time to start charging for the use of OUR (Taxpayers) Land! If I have to pay to go to a National Park - why shouldn't these wealthy ranchers!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:01 | 4654867 ATG
ATG's picture

Now we see where you are coming from.

Free handouts from racking up government deficits, expenses and transfer payments "taxing the rich" rhetoric, (which turns out to be taxing what's left of the working middle class in practice.)

Good luck with that.

Central Planning at the point of a gun didn't work for Hitler, Mao, Mussolini or Stalin either. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:33 | 4654158 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Who keeps electing these GOP corporate shills?  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-10/banks-win-again-proposed-toughe...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:08 | 4654217 ATG
ATG's picture

40 states do not even have Voter ID for absentee mail ballots. Mostly blue states do not have Voter ID for voting at precincts, meaning illegals vote and people vote other names.

The current administration and Senate oppose Voter ID so much they wage multimillion dollar lawsuits on Voter ID using the people's money against them, claiming it inconveniences their special interests who use ID cards at ATMs to withdraw their free taxpayer money.

When only half of Americans register to vote and only half of registered voters actually vote, minority special interest candidates triumph with what amounts to 15% or less of eligible votes.

If we do not vote, we have no right to complain.

If we all do vote this November for Independent Constitutional Candidates instead of the usual suspects, we will overcome voter apathy and fraud to take back our country:

http://bit.ly/1hxRxOr

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:50 | 4654241 ATG
ATG's picture

Anonymous red downvotes on voting represent all that is cynical, smug and wrong with America today, people who have no respect for what our forefathers died to create, nurture and protect. As you sow ye reap.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:34 | 4654290 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

How about the tea partiers taking over the Republican party?  Your bosses don't want that.

I am tired of hearing people say you have no right to complain if I don't vote for a bought and paid for compromised siociopath Democrat or a bought and paid for compromised sociopath Repubican or vote for a third party condidate that can't win.  You don't get to decide who can complain. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:52 | 4654844 ATG
ATG's picture

Neither the Ds or Rs are our bosses.

We are our own bosses.

If you don't like the candidates, run.

But please stop whining about political takeout menus.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:52 | 4654342 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Open your eyes!  The more the GOP takes over the country the further we sink into indentured slavery. 

Miami-Dade blocks voters standing in line from using the bathroom

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/10/1291058/-Miami-Dade-blocks-vote...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 15:14 | 4654542 ATG
ATG's picture

Huh?

Neither D or R.

Both parties proved they violate our Constitution repeatedly.

That's why Gallup found D and R voters in the 20s of percent, Independent voters at 42%, with the rest still making up their mind for freedom against big bad government rather than more of the same:

http://bit.ly/1cYI67Z

People are pissed and registering to vote for freedom.

2014 may well be the first year a classical liberal constitutional Libertarian wins national office:

http://bit.ly/1n4ORv0

Our future is in our votes.

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 15:22 | 4654560 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Neither!  The GOP is the most Bankster corupt - but plenty of Corpracrats - like old "I'll blown any Banker for a Nickel" Chucky

The Progressive party and Independents!  Like Bernie Sanders and Angus King!

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 06:35 | 4656150 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

idiots BOTH Republicans and Democrats report to a higher Corporate Master NOT to us citizens im sure many "Patriots" have skeletons in their closets-the earth is not flat and ther is NO real difference between the 2 parties-and now even the "third party" is getting suspicious do a little digging  

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 23:38 | 4706466 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

If you vote you put the problem there so it's your fault and that means you have no right to complain. Withdrawing any form of consent is the only right to complain and that means not voting.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:49 | 4703136 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Dem = GOP = same corporate shillers & supporters, funders.

It's all a ruse.

There's only 1 party in America, the Goldman Sachs party of Global Overlordship.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:35 | 4654164 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

The police will shoot you in the back on any pretense. They don't know that you are not a terrorist and you may have a bomb. 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:37 | 4654165 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture
The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html

Tea Party Freshmen Frolic With Lobbyists At $10,000 A Head Fundraiser

http://www.nationalmemo.com/tea-party-freshmen-frolic-lobbyists-10000-he...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:18 | 4654168 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Didn't see any Teaparty 'Red Dawn' Militia come to their rescue... Cops caught pepper-spraying, punching Occupy Wall Street protesters will not be prosecuted: DA


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-caught-pepper-spraying-punching...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:45 | 4654173 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Meet DICK Armey - Freedom Works Founder!  

Tea party leader Dick Armey gets first-class treatment Chairman of conservative nonprofit makes $500K, flies first class

Dick Armey is a former House Majority Leader and current chairman of FreedomWorks, which serves as a hub for tea party groups nationwide. He makes $500,000 a year, flies around the country in first class (along with his companions) and at times has had a driver.  After leaving Congress, he worked for law and lobbying firm DLA Piper for six years. At DLA Piper, a heavy hitter in the Washington lobbying world, Armey was a senior advisor and the firm’s co-chair on homeland security, according to an archived profile from the firm’s website.

Armey lobbied for companies ranging from General Motors to defense contractor Raytheon to pharmaceuticals developer the Medicines Company, according to federal lobbying records.

 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-caught-pepper-spraying-punching...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:46 | 4654178 Carbon Beach
Carbon Beach's picture

Didn't Kevin Costner make a movie about this a few years ago...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 12:55 | 4654200 ATG
ATG's picture

Happily, common sense won over Fed overreach here and can again at the polls this November:

http://bit.ly/1kUXMuG

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:01 | 4654211 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

we're all familiar with eminent domain (thank you SCOTUS, Connecticut) government can condemn private property and resell that property to another person or business if the local government feels that the transaction would provide better tax revenue, and use of the property. now we go out west where private individuals lease government property but are resisting the right of government to regulate the use of their property. this is about as twisted around as it gets.

i would like to see Bundy's tax return. if he has 900 heifers, and each one has a calf, and he grazes them until they are 1000 pounds, and he sells them at 50 cents a pound, he should net nearly half a million. i agree i dont care who is right or who is wrong, how much is this federal grazing land worth to him, and why is he making such a fuss? as a matter of principle the ship has already sailed.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:16 | 4654250 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

To the patriots all that government dtuff you spout is silly.

It is a simple matter of picking up a weapon.

They had more guns and better guns than the BLM and their mercenaries. Everything else is irrelevant

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:45 | 4654429 ATG
ATG's picture

Check red all you want. It only comes back on you:

"It is a simple matter of picking up a weapon.

They had more guns and better guns than the BLM and their mercenaries. Everything else is irrelevant."

Who are you kidding?

Ignorance is no excuse for inflammatory stupid uninformed comments.

BLM had armour, helicopters, snipers and backhoes. The DHS has drones. The NSA has domestic espionage.

They could have called in DHS, US Marshalls, FBI, SWAT teams, armoured tanks like Ruby Ridge and Waco, even Warthogs if forced to escalate by gun-crazed trigger-happy yahoos like you.

They didn't because the Nevada Governor, Senator and Clark County Sheriff did their job constitutionally protecting the peace and BLM lost hearts and minds by using violence against peaceful unarmed protestors exercising their civil rights.

Cliven Bundy repeatedly asked 2nd Amendment rights people to not carry arms to prevent a single shot turning into a bloodbath with government agency vendettas covered up by Congressional enablers.

No one wins with arms races escalating conflict, except war profiteers, thugs, criminals, bankers and fools fanning the flames, for a short while until weapons superior to what they have stops them dead cold.

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 06:31 | 4656145 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

dont forget the tanks, heli-gunships, missiles and out right bombs.....Dont romantisize fighting for freedom.....take a solid look at what could happen

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:38 | 4654340 ATG
ATG's picture

Eminent domain under our Fifth Amendment requires property seized in the public interest to receive fair market price compensation.

In this case, the Feds not only seized property without payment, they charged the Bundy Family with over a million dollars in fines.

What we are talking about here is Bundy Family free range grazing rights dating from 1877 before the BLM started, on $39 Million of free range property half the size of Delaware seized by BLM ostensibly to protect the very Desert Tortoise they destroyed.

The story MSM did not carry was the $39 Million land was to be sold to Chinese ENN by Rory Reid negotiations in a crony sweetheart deal for $5 Million to build a $5 Billion solar energy plant to profit China, not America:

http://bit.ly/1kllm5h

The BLM roundup with backhoes, helicopters, K9's snipers and stun guns stampeded and separated nursing cattle and calves and used back hoes to deliberately tear up water irrigation dating from 1877 at a taxpayer cost of millions of dollars, far exceeding the value of the cattle and the fine.

BLM body slammed, used attack dogs and tazed unarmed people standing on public right away peacefully assembling to petition redress and document destructive cattle rustling by the BLM. 

This is the same armed BLM whose rangers shot and killed an unarmed teenager at Red Rock Park having a bad day.

Too much armed tyranny by government thugs is enough.

Friends of the Desert Tortoise say constructing desert solar plants with heavy equipment and ATVs kill far more Desert Tortoises than grazing cattle.

The Desert Tortoise is no longer endangered, so this appears to be a bogus diversionary ploy by greedy politicians seeking to stuff their pockets before retirement.

Recall Jim Wright and Dan Rostenkowski specifically exempting their properties from taxes?

The Parker Hawaiian family trust on the Big Island manages 250,000 acres of cattle employing many Hawaiians. Should we close down, steal from and subdivide them too because of the spotted newt?

If we do, beef. already at 25-year highs, will go to $50 a pound, or maybe even extinct.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:13 | 4654237 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Did you see how the SWAT Rambos were called out to help BLM evacuate? The western states do not like the BLM. They were never going to defend BLM in a militia war, but they would be pleased to help them get the hell out of Dodge. Lol

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:43 | 4703131 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Encouraging video here http://youtu.be/bD61YFxUga4 but the BLM haven't really left. They are going to wait for the guards to sleep. That's why they never can, not ever again.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:16 | 4654246 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

I spoke to friend today.  We came to the conclusion it has begun.  Most of us are sick of the monster. Harry Reid can go to hell. The time nears when it is American against the new Monster Fed Govt.  Against their imported illegals, against the monstrous tax laws, the IRS the DOJ, Wall Street who back the Tyrannical government that exists here and now. It will become time when it gets personal. My friend and I have over 15000 rounds, 30-40 weapons and are ready to join the fight. His son was killed in Afganistan, and we sit ready to fight the monster. Yes say we, ready to lay down our lives against this tyranny of a shoddy government. The fed has provided food for this monster. They are on the hit list. Mr. Bullard bullshit speeches to IMF are not going to sway us. Go ahead build these Red cities with communists so they can become our fodder. Fuck you Toll Brothers, the monster will die and if we do in th process so be it. We will kill many before we die. Fuck you federal governemnt

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:18 | 4654253 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

I salute you, fellow patriot

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 18:22 | 4655045 Philalethian
Philalethian's picture

Truly, the sane peace loving world stands with you both. The new world brotherhood/sisterhood of peace loving fair traders are uniting like never before. All know the differences between black, and white. Ignorance is no longer the opiate of the masses.

This issue is not going to go away, rather it serves as a template for dealing with real govt tyranny. Sure, they studied the situation, but so did the patriot militias. More technology to deal with the drones and other taxpayer paid for war equipment to fight the American People will be developed. Insiders will turn to the cause of freedom, and peaceful world wide trading.

Everybody knows WHO is responsible for all the world's problems. If there are those who are going to stand as bootlickers to these criminal corrupted nazi's, then be prepared to accept what will come for being traitors and turncoats to the American People. Be prepared for the resrecussions that come to all traitors and enemies of America, and her people.

This all souls on board should know. The govt is not the corrupted few psychopaths that cheat with tainted voting machines, steal, and kill their way to these positions. The government is not the banksters, wall street, or their money-god either. The government is the People, and the people have had enough of this carp and corruption beyond the thunderdome of insanity. There is the real truth that 99% of the world's people are sick and darn tired of this monster/beast that seeks to divide and conquer us all. The world's People have had enough of this crime and corruption to profit from constant wars and population elimination agenda 21 garbage. You saw what the people think about the Agenda 21 and traitors that are sellouts to china. You are going to see moar and moar speaking truth to power now, more penetration into the babylonian systems in the good works of every man, woman, and child in the world.

It is them, against us. Freedom, or slavery. Progress, or ignorance and decline. World free and fair economies, or total destruction. It is clear as a bell as to what is happening here. The People of the world have had enough and are now starting to take back the world from the insano-asylum whackos that have stolen the peace of the world from the world's people. Just say NO!

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:16 | 4654247 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

I spoke to friend today.  We came to the conclusion it has begun.  Most of us are sick of the monster. Harry Reid can go to hell. The time nears when it is American against the new Monster Fed Govt.  Against their imported illegals, against the monstrous tax laws, the IRS the DOJ, Wall Street who back the Tyrannical government that exists here and now. It will become time when it gets personal. My friend and I have over 15000 rounds, 30-40 weapons and are ready to join the fight. His son was killed in Afganistan, and we sit ready to fight the monster. Yes say we, ready to lay down our lives against this tyranny of a shoddy government. The fed has provided food for this monster. They are on the hit list. Mr. Bullard bullshit speeches to IMF are not going to sway us. Go ahead build these Red cities with communists so they can become our fodder. Fuck you Toll Brothers, the monster will die and if we do in th process so be it. We will kill many before we die. Fuck you federal governemnt

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:32 | 4654281 ATG
ATG's picture

Threatening violence will get you and anyone who green clicks this on a DHS FBI NSA Secret Service terrorist hit list PDQ.

Is that what you want?

Are you really working for them?

Bundy Ranch was resolved without a single shot fired when the Sheriff, Senator and Governor of Nevada honoured their Constitutional Oaths to serve the people, not the machine.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:47 | 4654331 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

I guess you assume we should just slowly be eradicated, get our jobs taken, have all what we have earned get taken by this monster. You sir are not paying attention to what is going on. I do not work for anyone. I am an American wtaching a country turn into Rome.  You are a coward.  I will die for freedom. I will definitely defend the old american ideal before it has evolved into a socialist experiment. So if you want feel free to single me out, but there is many of us Way more than you think. And we are armed to the teethe for this specific reason. the reason which was spelled out in the constitution agains tyrannical governemnts. Jefferson was correct about Central Banks. If you want to live in the next work feel free and abide by their slaughter. Me, I would rather die trying to keep these idiots from squashing any freedom that remains. So FUCK YOU

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:47 | 4654332 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

I guess you assume we should just slowly be eradicated, get our jobs taken, have all what we have earned get taken by this monster. You sir are not paying attention to what is going on. I do not work for anyone. I am an American wtaching a country turn into Rome.  You are a coward.  I will die for freedom. I will definitely defend the old american ideal before it has evolved into a socialist experiment. So if you want feel free to single me out, but there is many of us Way more than you think. And we are armed to the teethe for this specific reason. the reason which was spelled out in the constitution agains tyrannical governemnts. Jefferson was correct about Central Banks. If you want to live in the next work feel free and abide by their slaughter. Me, I would rather die trying to keep these idiots from squashing any freedom that remains. So FUCK YOU

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:35 | 4654378 ATG
ATG's picture

Now you have degenerated into name calling and cursing, which hardly helps your just cause for freedom.

In no way do I assume we should just slowly be eradicated, get our jobs taken, have all what we have earned get taken by this monster.

In fact I was downgraded here for saying we have to vote for independent liberty candidates in 2014 to protect ourselves and our future from tyrants.

"You sir are not paying attention to what is going on."

Wrong again.

We are standing for Harry Reid's old Las Vegas District 1 US Rep seat in Congress, offering an electable true Libertarian Constitutional Candidate Choice for the first time in a long time because of Bundy Ranch and other 2014 critical events:

http://bit.ly/P6SHpc

That does not make us a coward as you claimed.

How exactly does your dying help you, your family, your neighbors, your country in the cause for freedom?

Violent tendencies and threats do not help you or other Americans working for constructive change.

In fact, it can trigger government backlashes and overkill like Ruby Ridge and Waco.

You might enjoy reading Washington's Farewell Address that paints a means to a brighter future:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

 

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:38 | 4703125 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

"Violent tendencies and threats do not help you or other Americans working for constructive change"

They most certainly do and that's how the USA was founded in the first place. Shoot to kill until one side is dead or exhausted and gives up.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:00 | 4654353 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Lol. Why do you worry about being on someone's list?

Oh yeah. You are conditioned from school days.

"This will go down on your permanent record"

May the chains of bondage rest lightly on you.

You not only allowed them to chain you, you locked the chains yourself and handed them the key, you eager beaver you!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:05 | 4654376 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture
“Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders…and millions have been killed because of this obedience…Our problem is that people are obedient allover the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves… (and) the grand thieves are running the country. That’s our problem.”


Howard Zinn

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:09 | 4654386 ATG
ATG's picture

Creating straw men is a waste of time.

Not worried at all.

No intention of putting myself into chains, noose or stockade, thank you.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:36 | 4703123 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No intention? You're already IN THEM.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:02 | 4654369 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

A bit Paranoid?

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:06 | 4654381 ATG
ATG's picture

Realistic friend.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Andy Grove, holocaust survivor and Intel co-founder.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:36 | 4703121 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

It's not resolved. The Feds are waiting for the law-keepers to leave so they can steal the cattle and the land all over again with no more cameras or rifles pointed at them. This battle will continue until the BLM is legally dissolved, all their staff fired.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:26 | 4654269 El
El's picture

Those 16,000 ranchers should stop paying the grazing fees as well. That's Nevada's land. If money is to be paid, it should go to Nevada.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:31 | 4654438 flysofree
flysofree's picture

It's Nevada's land just like Crimea was Ukrainian land.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:40 | 4654311 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Now lets add up these basic annual costs:

Cow $154 Feed $365 Bull  $60 Labor $150 pickup $17 Vet  $10 Total $756 per head cost per cow

So how does a common rancher stay in business?  Appreciation in the value of his land.  The cattle operation itself has little, if any, margin ? far less than the potential income from selling the hay, grass, and cows to someone else.  But the value of the land keeps rising far faster than the liability from raising cattle.And then there is the estate tax.  A ranch that may be worth only $750,000 in its ability to produce grass and hay for cattle is now worth $7,500,000.  Mom and Pop can give only $3.5M to the son tax free.  So when they die the IRS is after the son for half of the remaining $4M. 

Where can the son get $2M to pay the inheritance tax?  Not by raising cattle - I guarantee it!  The only place to get that kind of money is to sell some or all of the ranch.  And if he sells any of it he can no longer make a living. 

http://montanacowboycollege.com/ranching_economics.htm

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:01 | 4654876 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Your numbers are distorted enough to indicate that you have no actual knowledge of beef production. Whether done in desert scrub brush or pastured in a fertile field plus manger. As I am.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 22:29 | 4655608 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

Claiming squatter rights on 600,000 acres of land and running 900 cows on it shows that Bundy is not exactly an abused peasant.  With feeder prices at an all time high of $1.80 a pound, ranchers are not exactly suffering, although the drought is forcing them to reduce their herds.  Bundy and his supporters are living out the style of the open range, 150 years too late.  The 16,000 grangers cooperating with the BLM and paying fair fees for the use of land that does not belong to them are doing things the right way.  Bundy is an outlaw. 

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:32 | 4703117 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, the BLM is the outlaw: they have no legal right to do anything. Not to collect fees, not to control the land, not to impound cattle, none of it. Every such act is a criminal violation and arrests of those BLM staff (not officers!) is in order. Immediately.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:22 | 4654320 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Nice if you can save on the biggest expense - feed.

Oh BTW thanks to Uncle Obama and the GOP -they can now pass on the $7 million completely estate & capital gains tax free!  At death the property gets a stepped-up tax basis.  $10 miilion per couple can be passed on completely Federally Estate Tax Free!

Think about that while you do your tax return.

 

WOW My heart breaks for these poor Ranchers and their kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:16 | 4654743 ATG
ATG's picture

Not sure if this is productive property envy sarcasm.

Our Constitution requires all duties, excises and taxes to be uniform, not rigged by politicians for special interests.

That assures more prosperity through respect for productivity and property rights.

Our Constitution is not about subsidizing failures.

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:49 | 4654338 mt paul
mt paul's picture

Peggy Bundy

is hot ..

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:51 | 4654341 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

This is what I love about fight club

We fight over everything. I still bet all of us here, librulz and wingnuts, and the bored, could run the government better than the current bastards.

Fight club, bitchez

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:52 | 4654345 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

By the way Ed Snowded is a hero!!!!!

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 13:52 | 4654346 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

By the way Ed Snowded is a hero!!!!!

 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:15 | 4654398 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

This is why the Western Ranchers are so pissed - and it's not the BLS's fault

 

US West Faces 'Worst Drought in 500 Years'

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/west-worst-drought-500/2014/02/02/id/55...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:26 | 4654420 WarPony
WarPony's picture

Don't forgot the FREEMAN STANDOFF where the Militia shut down the Waco Blood Games -http://tech.mit.edu/V116/N16/militia.16w.html- and this Nevada thing was no Blood Game. No cell phones, no Twitter, just militia with weapons and brains.

What we need is a Militia event in D.C., preferably during a State of the Union address - a target rich environment.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 14:48 | 4654493 ATG
ATG's picture

"These guys are very disturbing," he added. "I'm worried about more Don Voses coming in here - and that one guy with a Saturday night special who might crack off a round at somebody and start a real mess."

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:07 | 4654628 WarPony
WarPony's picture

I believe another Waco would be more disturbing. And remember, no one died.  Plus, the Freeman were trying to expose the fraud of the federal reserve, a far nobler cause than supporting a free-loading rancher.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 16:27 | 4654723 ATG
ATG's picture

Your reflexive repetitive use of the phrase 'free-loading rancher' betrays for what and whom you work or serve.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 17:19 | 4654870 WarPony
WarPony's picture

Oh, he grazed his herd for free for over two decades while law-abiding ranchers paid for their leases. What would you call that?

And, before you answer, remember, that the State of Nevada became so out of the Nevada territory (US owned), started the Sagebrush Rebellion reclaiming 70% of ceded federal lands which didn't include Bundy's lease.  Bundy showed up after Nevada became a State.

Further, he wasn't homesteading, that would mean taxes.

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 18:16 | 4654965 ATG
ATG's picture

Twisting the facts does not persuade.

Native Americans from Asia like my ancestors occupied Nevada before the US government, and I do not see you making a Federal issue out of all the broken treaties and land grabs by US government or all the pre-emptive wars of aggression.

But for some reason we are to believe you are deeply offended by the Bundy family trying to ranch in peace as they have done for 137 years, that they are stealing from taxpayers?

Puhleeze.

The Bundy family arrived, homesteaded and exercised free range rights for 137 years.

Our federal government cannot just abrogate these rights as they attempted to do with their Federal Courts and with various other coverups of government malfeasance.

People do not pay property taxes to the Federal government, but to the County, Clark County in this case.

The Clark County Sheriff told the BLM to back off:

http://bit.ly/1n1ANSO

If Bundy was not paying his taxes, his property would be sold to satisfy tax liens.

Our Bill of Rights does not allow Federal government like BLM to Nationalize or seize property without fair market compensation, even if it is a Reid land grab for profit under the table.

Our common sense does not like to see government tyranny over American citizens.

Most of US will oppose it.

So exactly what is your stake in this? 

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 19:47 | 4655222 WarPony
WarPony's picture

OK, thanks for asking! No twisting, but nice advertisement.  The Washoe natives were there first for thousands of years, then Spain made claim, then Mexico before it became a federal territory. It became a State before the Bundy's arrived. He free ranged on federal/public land until the feds started the leasing program.

Times change, rules too. Bundy wants to pay the State, had been paying BLM then stopped.  My take is that some things are worth putting yours and others lives on the line as assuredly your ancestors did, but unpaid lease fees not so much. Tragedy of the commons and all.

I'm not a big supporter of a tyrannical government - I was there in Montana in the lead crew, how much more cred do I need.  We were militia up against star wars, the internet was a baby but we had coverage nationwide. The feds stopped the Waco-type Blood Games because of what we did.  And, it brought us hell on earth (personally) but gave you almost two decades to come together and it's working with a lot of thanks to the Internet.

They know of what's called the Montana Promise - that if it goes down ANYWHERE, we will make the revolution awake in every State across the Country - but, only if legit.  Blood Games yes, unpaid lease fees not so much.

Mon, 04/14/2014 - 06:16 | 4656133 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

>>>Native Americans...occupied Nevada before the US government, and I do not see you making a Federal issue out of all the broken treaties and land grabs by US government or all the pre-emptive wars of aggression.

--------- he has a point-you guys look ridiculous. fuck the Indians, steal their land, and let the white man bore full speed ahead with GENOCIDE and nobody wets their pants
Sun, 04/13/2014 - 15:29 | 4654571 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

How Democratic of you!  Big Hilter fan I imagine.  Maybe it's Wall St that needs some protesting...oh wait we tried that...

Sun, 04/13/2014 - 15:44 | 4654635 WarPony
WarPony's picture

And, who enabled the Wall Street rip?  Hitler was demonized because he turned on his financial backers and lost - and who gets to write the "history?"

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 02:25 | 4703112 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No, Hitler was demonized for sending millions of people to death for not being Aryans.

Plenty of people still alive from that era this very day who lived it, saw it, aren't reading from a propaganda book to tell you what was. My own parents lived through it.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!