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More "De-escalation" - NATO Sends Five Warships To Baltic Sea
The latest development out of NATO, which was already largely expected, must be part of the just announced elaborate de-escalation scheme. From VOA:
NATO members are sending navy ships to the Baltic Sea to increase the security of the alliance's eastern European allies in response to the Ukraine crisis.
NATO's Maritime Command said Thursday it is sending four minesweepers and a support vessel to the Baltic Sea. The ships are from Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium and Estonia.
The alliance said Thursday it does not intend to escalate the situation in Ukraine, but rather to "demonstrate solidarity" and ramp up NATO's readiness.
NATO has made clear it does not want to get involved militarily in Ukraine, which is not a NATO member.
Ah yes, because the Geneva "de-escalation" statement explicitly did not mention anything about a military build up when it is solely for "solidarity demonstration" purposes, and not for "intimidation or provocation." At least we now know what loopholey, umbrella phrase the next Russian escalation in east Ukraine will be held under: "demonstrating solidarity" with ethnic Russians in the region.
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Somebody please call the russians to tell them not to worry about it ... just part of regular exercises ... or so
Can someone somewhere start shooting already?!
I think Merkel's phone is gonna ring soon and the other side is gonna whisper "Who runs Bartertown?"
All fun and games till your industry grinds to a halt.
NATO is gonna see that posturing works better when your supporting economies actually are running.
pods
This is all just too good to be true!
And since today is obviously opposites-day, I'm just going to say I love naggers!
Because the Russians are going to mine the Black Sea or something?
Red:
Because that's all they've got to work with . . .
Have you noticed all the carriers are in their home ports?
Because they are sitting ducks against any country with modern shore-based anti-shippiing missles. Carriers only work against countries using 1960s technology.
-30-
And a slim chance the other vessels deployed will fare any better?
After mock attack: U.S. Navy completely demoralized
http://politics2day.eu/2014/mock-attack-u-s-navy-completely-demoralized/
(The jammer of the SU-24 has switched of their systems, thus) 27 crew members of the destroyer are said to have submitted their resignations and have commented on their actions by saying they have no intention to put their lives in danger.
The gay navy is not so gay anymore?
"Toot-toot!"
Yeah so they claim the Pentagon confirmed the story but there is nothing anywhere to confirm that claim.
The story is made up or extremely heavily embellished.
I read the article. This line struck me:
"Members of the crew had to be psychologically cared for and to recover from the suffered stress."
Just from being buzzed?! Really?? What an incredible bunch of pussies. Apparently war is only acceptable as a video game experience...
Remember the commercials:
"Navy, a global force for good"?
The story sounds like b.s. to me.
Sailors quaking in their uniforms and requesting that they be allowed to resign because a jet flew overhead a few times ?
Yeah, right.
Other accounts described the jets as 'unarmed' - so likely without weapons pods under their wings.
So were these so-called overly sensitive sailors just scared shitless from the noise from the jets ?
Even if you think its a bad idea for the US to escalate military operations in that region (I'm of that opinion) doesn't mean you believe every story out there. This sounds like the kinda ridiculous propaganda Tokyo Rose spouted during WW2.
Turkey does not allow aircraft carriers to transit the Bosphorus. This applies to Russia as well as the U.S.
I was on the LPH Inchon in the mid-80's and we anchored off of Istanbul. We were told expicitely that we could not sail further up the Bosphosus because we were a helicopter carrier. What is interesting is that the USSR at that time created a destroyer class that could launch planes (but was not classified as a "carrier") for the sole purpose of getting around the Turkish prohibition.
'Turkey's Bosphorus Straits'
"Turkey, Russia tread cautious line over Ukraine" 7/14/14 http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/04/turkey-russia-ukraine-cautious.html
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanelles
Ref: Map-- Sea of Marmara*
The 'Lausanne Convention' (Pre-Montreux Convention [Switzerland]) had allowed aircraft carriers... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lausanne_Convention ,but the 'Montreux Convention' superceded this agreement on July 20,1936 [*note date-- Germany 1937-38]... Important: The United States was not signatory, or is today... making it null-n-void,.. with only NATO being able to circumvent treaty/ convention. Ps. Turkey aided Germany as did Spain during WWII and somehow evaded the wrath of Russia? It had to do with Greece/ Cyprus/ Turks?!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Turkish_Straits
'Naval arms Control- 1936' http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/naval-arms-control-1936.htm
as I've written about long ago, fwiw
jmo
Ref: Counterinsurgency [COIN] and [CT] Counterterrorism "Small Wars Journal" Note: Korean War was the first ever backed by the United Nations (UN) and NATO during the Truman adm. (1945-53), and the rest is history?
http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/counterinsurgency-vs-counterterrorism
The 'Baltic Sea' is counterproductive-- absolutely a global strategic embarrassment, as foolish as was Hitler's Germany [?USSA?] in 1939-- 'invasions via encroachment'!
again jmo
Great links Earl, thanks a bunch, there was one good story on small wars journal of what Ceasar told his centurions...good stuff
--
The 'Baltic Sea' is counterproductive-- absolutely a global strategic embarrassment
again jmo
--
Agreed. Imo.
The deployment of minesweepers (or mine-layers; many have both capabilities) in the Baltic is either a distraction, diversion or an attempt to create a triggering event with Russian naval craft (most probably submarines). The strategic value of this deployment is not obvious to me. I admit I am not a Naval strategist, but I am not fully ignorant of these matters either.
This just doesn't make sense from a strategic standpoint.
Are they sweeping the coast of Kaliningrad Oblast to take some pressure off the Ukrainian theater?
What else would they be needed for?
Lots of questions and not many answers. This must have some deeper significance or NATO leadership is cracking up and has no idea what they are doing anymore.
The media is citing these NATO actions as DE-escalating so that they look like the good guys and when Russia decides to act, the media will label their actions as Escalating or RE-Escalating the tensions... Fuckin MSM
And the completely retarded Americans will believe it! Fox News is their god
Oh wait I forgot Fox doesn't consider themselves the msm
-_-
No, they're fair and balanced... remember?
Perhaps the US military (and their NATO lapdogs) should be very cautious about taking on an enemy more dangerous than goatherders:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/an-officer-corps-that-ca...
Interestingly the goat herders kicked the Ruskies ass pretty good in the eighties. mmmm....
Rice farmers seem to be able to kick butt too ..........
http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm
Not to mention a nation of farmers, tradesmen, shopkeepers, adventurers & pioneers from a colony in North America 239 years ago.
Now what are wel...
A nation ruled by a kleptocracy that grabs land abroad and home like in Nevada
A nation of drugdealers whose shops are run down streets
A nation of couchpotatoes fed propaganda by msm
Now what are wel...
A nation ruled by a kleptocracy that grabs land abroad and home like in Nevada
A nation of drugdealers whose shops are run down streets
A nation of couchpotatoes fed propaganda by msm
Chasing goat herders is a little bit different than fighting in a conventional playing field.
Ask Adolph what a pissed off Russian fights like ? Oh, I forgot Hitler blew his brains out and let the Fraus of Berlin be raped by the Russkies.
Nyet...that is not what happened..
Yeah lol, I'll take your word for it.On one hand you want me to believe (spanning several days worth of comments) that there is a massive difference between the USSR and current day Russian Federation and on the other hand you spew this minimalistic bullshit trying to play down on the atrocities committed by the red army at the end of ww2 and well into the 50s all the way from Ukraine to Berlin, including all Eastern and Central Europe. Fuck you pizdetz!
Spelling.
Not so much as you think...
Another excellent article by the same author:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/john-boyds-art-of-war/
OODA - Brilliantly Captured.
This is the best simple example of "getting owned" by Boyd's loop that I have seen recently:
http://www.gifbin.com/985224
Boyd and his concepts are worth spending study time on.
They're also throwing around some random photo off of twitter of a document allegedly from pro-Russian forces requiring Jews to register. It's all a fucking game man. You just have to see through all the bullshit. This entire episode is a battle of covert action behind the scenes. I don't know what the desired end-game is, but I do know that 90% of the information we are getting in the US about the situation is total bullshit and government lies being spewed through media mouthpieces.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
Always accuse the other side of what you are doing.I
would think the neo-nazis are the one doing it.
Pogram was a Ukrainian word before it became a Russian one.
deleted
You really can't make the shit up. And even if you did, no one would believe the story. It is surreal.
You didn't de-escalate that !
Such a move by NATO would represent a violation of the Montreax Convention limit of 30,000 tons of non Black Sea state warships in the Black Sea.
Russia will see this as a provocation and a threat.
Better lay in a massive supply of popcorn.
USS Truxtun DDG-103 Displacement 9,200 tons
USS Donald Cook DDG-75 Displacement 8,900 tons
FR Dupleix D-641 Displacement 4,500 tons
FR Alize A-645 Displacement 1,600 tons (Supports combat divers)
FR Dupuy de Lome A-759 Displacement 3,100 tons
Total 27,300
Montreax Convention Limit 30,000
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=496459
http://www.novinite.com/articles/159784/France
The above warships are the non-Black Sea state warships presently in the Black Sea.
(the Baltic Sea)
Click bait hat tip to Tyler. He's a born newsman, I tell ya.
That's the problem with posting before the bottle of scotch is finished.
:)
For those of you who still can drink...
deleted
You might as well be sending Dreadnoughts up the Mississippi for all the good they will do. The Black Sea is a Russian Lake.
"Send your ships into the Black Sea, ZATO, we need moar fish habitats."
Read the headline. It's just fearmongering for the dyslexic. The Baltic sea isn't anywhere near the Ukraine. (It is, however pretty close to Estonia, Norway, Netherlands, and Belgium.)
And Poland.
And Germany. The German navy has most of their naval bases in the Baltic sea. And they have North sea/ Baltic sea cannel.
If Germany had won the war, we wouldn't have to deal with this stupid mess now. Too bad the US sided with Russia in defeating Germany before siding with Germany to keep Russia out of Europe. Like the US sided with OBL before they decided to hunt him down in the mountains of Tora Bora.
The US has the most predictable track record of voting for something only to vote against it a little later.
How USA could keep Russia out of Europe? Russia is in Europe. Perhaps, you want to say USA want to keep Russia out of EU or severe the relationship between Russia and EU? Is good to maintain some objectivity in facts and not get blur by propaganda. see map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_polar_stereographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary.svg
There is a Russian Naval base in the Baltic sea: map
Fijiaaron
Thanks. Baltic or Black, this isn't going to be a naval dust up. Or, if it is the naval part will be over in less than 24 hours.
K
Read the headline. It's just fearmongering for the dyslexic. The Baltic sea isn't anywhere near the Ukraine. (It is, however pretty close to Estonia, Norway, Netherlands, and Belgium.)
And to the Russian Naval base in Baltiysk
When does the ship from Estonia start flying the Russian flag?
Am I missing something? Even in this crazy world isn't 27,300 still less than 30,000?
813kml : "Am I missing something? Even in this crazy world isn't 27,300 still less than 30,000?"
I take it you weren't a student under Common Core ?
Does that 27,300 include the obligatory submarines?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Baltic_Sea_map.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Black_Sea_map.png
hmm
The people speaking for the West are a laughable bunch of flim-flam men (and women, in Merkel's case) who are about as convincing as used car salesmen. They have attained their various positions of power based not upon merit but upon their willingness to take orders and to degrade themselves by selling bullshit.
The problem is they've come to believe what they're selling.
Kerry doesn't open his mouth very wide when he talks lest his forked tongue slip out.
He has become the first snake/horse hybrid. A snorse.
Lololololol snorse.
More like snarse.
they shoot snorses don't they?
In my vision I see a grizzly bear running around with Putin on his shoulders. Next up....break a deal face the wheel.
At you Haus, I assume?
Yes they're taking entirely too long to get this started.
Let's just hope the Russians don't respond by parking military equipment on their own bases within their own borders. That would be provocation.
at some point someone will force a gun into the russian hand and pull the trigger ... voila
kabuki theater, will see how far it goes
surely no actual russian hands required... a couple blackwater guys dressed in Russian military fatigues, shooting chemical weapons outside damascus should get it done... or am i confusing my false flags again...
I find it hard to know who to hate. Just recently it was IRAQ IRAQ IRAQ, and then we had that lindsey lohan which was like really messed up...And then I heard something about LIBYA, yeah gotta attack! And then Egypt or was it the other way around...But SYRIA, WOW... But that Justin Beiber, don't know about that dude.
This Russia thing seems like the real deal.
I'm invested around a hot world. The more conflict, strife, tension, and hate in the world, the better. In fact, I use guerilla marketing in hitting what ever social media sites I can around the world just to inject stereo-typical american ignorance to stir the pot. I love all the players in this.
Welcome to Fight Club, Mr. Soros.
We've been expecting you.
First night?
Ships vs. boots on the ground? I'm going with the boots.
OMG, the Estonian Navy ! We better just surrender already.
Can I demonstrate solidarity with the nearest bank branch to my home?
One does not simply "ramp up" readiness.
You are either ready, or your aren't. If you find you aren't; that is when you ramp up.
enjoy
http://memegenerator.net/instance/48675515
I wasn't sure who would invoke Sean Bean, but I am glad to see it was you.
Megan Hunstman
Yes, tiger-worthy for sure. Though I'm wondering what the angle is for someone that deranged. The entire thing may be too sick even for Kali to stomach.
let Kali's kittens have a snack...a family affair.
p.s. I sent you a contact request.
Fuck fuck fuck ... but okay.
Megan Huntsman will be fed to a tiger.
I'm already liking it. There must be something wrong with me.
Nothing is wrong with you. That cunt needs a visit from your girlfriend. (I do hope that you pick that series back up. I read all of them twice since last night. Bravo)
*gets popcorn*
The Living With Death thing was epic. Yeah there are a few more in the series, not sure when I'll ever get back to it.
Okay, it's done:
Megan Huntsman, fed to a vengeful mother tiger.
http://fedtoatiger.blogspot.com/2014/04/megan-huntsman-of-utah-is-fed-to...
Hot damn.
That was fun. And practical. But a lot more fun than practical.
Count me in. Fresh meat for killer kitties. What's not to like about that?
Ukrainian forces can be ready all they want to. Without backing from someone else they are hosed.
That's what I'm Tonkin about!
Yes!
+ the whole 1960s!
Anyone who remembers the 1960's, wasn't actually living the 1960's.
:)
I was too young to remember much of the Sixties.
Parts of the 1970s are very foggy though.
Wait - there were 1960's? Whoa. That was good shit man.
There was an old video game I used to play, that had an interaction with some alien species, that stated 'human definintion of peace = time spent in preparation for war.'
These fucking NATO warmongers never give up do they.... Till they get slapped in the face with a Putin rod of ICBM.
Yawn... Believe me, they will be spending far more time inport than underway... Another NATO Booze Cruise!
During the Lebanon crisis in the 80's we did "gator squares" off of Beirut (talk about boring navigation). Of course when the officers started to run out of whiskey then we hightailed it to the nearest duty free zone.
If de-escalation like this continues I'll see y'all on the other side next week.
I have to step out and get another bag of plastic army men.
"he had been consulting with his European counterparts including German Chancellor Angela Merkel and British Prime Minister David Cameron to coordinate additional penalties if Russia fails to prove it’s abiding by the new agreement."
So are they going to shut off Nord Stream and cut down Russia at the knees ? or is Germany still talking expanding fuel deliveries from Russia at lower cost to Germany ?
Confused, confusing, befuddled. I guess every country is listening to Aunt Yellen and how to pat down those stiff (stiffie) resolves.
If he could really consult with all the 28 EU members, perhaps we could have some days to relax. Living in this continuous stress of crisis and war is too stressful for us europeans. And if every one of those 28 insist in speaking in his national tongue, better, some more days rest.
I wonder if NATO understands that Russia has a much different interpenetration of the word de-escalation..........
Yes, they keep saying that word. I do not think it.....
Oh, nevermind.
You know they do but psychopaths of all stripes simply do not care.
In the event that shots are fired where Russian conventional forces are overwhelmed (losing) pleae remember this...
By the next year, Russia had issued a new military doctrine whose main innovation was the concept of “de-escalation”—the idea that, if Russia were faced with a large-scale conventional attack that exceeded its capacity for defense, it might respond with a limited nuclear strike.
Limited fucking nuclear strike. Enjoy your victory NATO
Is it too late to send in The Snake?
Trust me... Hillary will only make things worse.
No, I meant Snake Plisken. Not Medusa...
I heard Snake was dead.
Plissken !! I had to verify the spelling on Wikipedia. Maybe it's a hidden "SS" thing...which has now popped up, just following the script. or maybe a Kurt Russell thing.
Plusses... For humor and reality.
Moot point. Ain't no way in hell the Russians are gonna be losing a ground war on their own turf. They may get pushed back a little at first, but then winter will come back, and so will they.
Even if we bring our coats and lunch boxes?
Which means Putin can do anything he likes or he will nuke those who oppose him. Can not wait for more countries with historical hatred for their neighbors to acquire nuclear weapon capability so they can do the same thing. They can determine what conventional capacity actually means. Heck it might be less fuel trucks in support of front line forces, time to send the nukes. Or the warriors might not have equal amounts of vodka, send the nukes.
These are not the warships you are looking for.
O shit, our navy is going to be pissed.........
They are used to Curaçao
Could we possibly just do a daily/weekly recap on the whole Ukraine situation? I know some people think this is the prelude to the start of WWIII, but it's not. Frankly, I'm tired of the whole damned situation and I wish the US would just stay the hell out of it.
You could report on the situation in Ukraine once a decade and use a template, just changing the date each time.
Change the date and the state and you can use the same template for the last 100 years of USSA interventions.
I sincerely hope you are right, but everything is indicating
otherwise.
I still remember playing hide, and seek with a boomer using
the minesweeper to evade dipping sonars.
I'm sure the Russians will not take even minesweepers
being deployed lightly for exactly that reason.
I'll tell you what. If we miraculously survive this "crisis in Ukraine" you can pay me $20 (or just buy me a case of Sam Adams). If we don't survive this I promise that the last words leaving my lips before the blast-wave hits me will be "Winston was right!"
CNN has MH-370. ZH apparently has the "Ukraine situation".
Go look down the main page and count the articles. How many are Ukraine? Half, if not more. They're crowding out the other half of the content that I DO like to read. I don't give a shit about Ukraine unless they turn off the gas. Then I'll care. Until then, I don't need to know every time some pro-russian protester or Ukrainian army officer takes a piss.
go away then...
Ummm.
5 boomers = 24 silos x 8 MIRVs = 192 warheads = 960 potential targets with a flight time of 10 minutes ??
This would be worse than a collection of Pershings sitting on the IGB.
You really don't think this isn't the biggest chess match yet?
Funny how incrementalism wears people down to the point of wanting it all to disappear.
The game was over before Putin moved the first pawn. He had his opponent figured out long ago.
You mean Nudelman and Soros were being directed by Putin? Links?
No Debt
You remind me of the joke of how a Harvard man changes a light bulb. He just holds it and lets the world turn around him. You ever consider skipping the Ukraine articles? The Tylers don't put them in brown paper wrappers.
Minesweepers...5 new targets.
duh that's what they were put there for
War is peace
Stupid is smart
Arbacht Macht Frei
or whatever.
Freedom is Slavery
well it does actually. and i usually like your posts. unless of course - we believe the free shit is freedom. which it is, and probably great, untill it stops coming.
B-32...Hit! DOOOHHHH...you sunk my battleship!
Too bad NATO didn't explain what "readiness" it wants to ramp up for, especially given it also says it doesn't want to get militarily involved in Ukraine.
With the might of the Estonian Navy steaming in, literally....
Oh, nevermind.
Why don't they just send Bernanke.
Wow! NATO's sending in the heavy stuff now - Estonian minesweepers! Next to arrive on scene: a bass boat and a lifeboat from the Costa Concordia!
"... and a lifeboat from the Costa Concordia!"
With the captain still clinging to the lifelines.
How does Estonia send in a minewseeper as their naval base is a Baltic port? Just let it drift out to sea?
Dont know about you lot but I talk to a few folk online, and through E-mail all over the world.
Lets be clear on this, not one of the folk I talk to online is going to be fighting each other for the wankers who run the show in any of our countries, not fucking one.
I mean, lets be serious here, have any of you seen the in-bred fucking cunt stain that is Britains 'Prime Minister'? Google the blue blooded idiot if you havent, there is no fucking way I or anyone I know would take up arms for this twat or his government or the royals in this day and age, especially as the dirty bastards are all involved with either systemic child abuse, or covering it up.
They have lost 'Legitimacy', all of it here, and as such thats why the UKIP is polling higher than the governing cunts.
The people my friends will be heard. One way or the other, we will be heard.
All. Around. The. World.
;-)
They have lost 'Legitimacy', all of it here,
Maybe that's why they need a really big war. The bullshit no longer sticks to the walls. Without a war there is no telling what could happen to TPTB.
The saddest part is....we talked the poor motherfuckers into disarming.
Then we stirred up some shit downtown. Then poked the bear. Then acted like we had a plan for the result, but we're just sorta "winging it" right toward the exchange of nuclear gifts.
Gosh. We are like so awesome to have as an ally.
Hey Poland. Got a joke for ya....
Love the photo associated with this post. LOL. Mine Sweeper.
The risk of anything negative for the markets happening over the long weekend is almost zero, VIX is down almost 10% and every single index has been going straight up and is set to close on the highs as we make higher highs with every tick.
the ships are there to enforce the de-escalation
Clearly.
Does anyone have a fuse? And a match? The Archduke Ferdinand moment this way comes!