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The "New" SATs (Summed Up In One Cartoon)

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Presented with no snark or ironic comment whatsoever...

 

 

Source: Sunday Funnies at The Burning Platform blog

 

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Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:06 | 4677991 prains
prains's picture

.....like a rat in a cage

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:20 | 4678015 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

SAT = Sorry Attempt to Transcend.

Nothing will ever beat the "School of Hard Knocks", EVER.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:27 | 4678042 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

@ Third Rock.

"Dying to Graduate"

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:51 | 4678108 max2205
max2205's picture

LOL

Twit

FB

Pin interest

Youporn

Ect

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:43 | 4678206 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

The world needs ditch diggers too.

 

-Judge Smails

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:52 | 4678226 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

agreed....too bad nobody's hiring even for those jobs. WTF with all the fucking roads bridges, etc. cannot this POS gubmint pull its head out of ass enough to even borrow a few trillion more from Mr. Yellin to at least offer some shard of "dignity"/respect to even a few 1000"s workers?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:49 | 4678549 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

Sorry - feminists have decreed that jobs for burly men are unacceptable.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:08 | 4678569 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

Is it just me, or is no one murdered with an axe anymore? If I saw someone with axe, I wouldn't even be scared- I'd be impressed someone was doing manual labor!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:25 | 4678292 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

I finished college after a circuitous detour and much hard work about the same time that I developed an interest in reading business bios.

Therefore the first thing I learned upon earning my degree was that most successful businesses were founded by people without degrees.

Ray Kroc, Glen Bell, Jobs, etc.

They and many more only went to the school of "hard knocks."

Well isn’t that sweet?!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:41 | 4678327 ugmug
ugmug's picture

There is only one SAT question.....vote democrat.... No answer necessary....you're entitled to be left but not right.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 02:00 | 4678752 PT
PT's picture

True, it is amazing how little you need to know and yet you can still be successful in this world.  Just ask the Kardashians.  And while you're at it, you may wish to reconsider the correlation between hard work and success.

If I remember rightly, it was Mr Honda that used to go to university.  He never got a degree (which really pissed off the uni).  He just used to go there and study whatever it was that he needed to know to help him build better engines, or whatever else it was he needed to know for his business.

Sometimes it has taken me six months to figure out something that someone else could have explained to me in five minutes.  I do value good teachers.

One of my first days with the Electrical Engineering lecturer and he writes on the board:

VL = L di/dt

"Bloody hell!", I thought to myself, "Why didn't anyone tell me this ten years ago???!!!"  Then I remembered that ten years ago I was only eight years old and I didn't know anything about calculus until two years ago.  I really do value good teachers.

But it is true.  If you know how to pull cables then you can actually be very successful without knowing all the little intricacies of what is happening inside those cables.  And the time you save by ignoring calculus can be time spent creating customers.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 05:48 | 4678851 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

duplicate

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 05:52 | 4678852 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

I'm am EE, with about 20 years total experience. Your comment reminds me of one that my older sister made about a year ago on Tracebook. "See, another successful day went by and I didn't have to use one bit of algebra"!

To which I responded, "You used your cell phone today"? 

Sis: Well, yes. 

Me: You used the pump at the station to fill your tank this week? 

Sis: Yeah, what are you getting at? 

Me: Did you walk to work? 

Sis: Of course not, stop pestering me!

Me: Was the building heated? 

Sis: Knock it off. What's your point? 

Me: A lot of people used algebra to design that cell phone, the gasoline pump, your car, and the nat-gas distribution system for your heating. Everyone's doing the algebra for you, except YOU. 

I could throw a few technical quirks into the input of those cables, and without a manual you'd be screwed in trying to figure out how to get a signal through them. Unless, that is, I wrote the solution into the manual for you. 

Extrapolating anomalies and implying that they are statistically more probable than they are is just another form of logical fallacy. Kroc, Bell, Jobs, are outliers used to propagate "the American Dream" (because you have to be asleep to believe it - Carlin). 

Don't let your schoolin' interfere with your education (Mark Twain) doesn't mean that you should necessarily forego the later. 

Get your "engineering vocational training" in something practical and useful and go off and design a new, innovative cable (then sell the start-up to one of the monopolies and retire, because if you don't, they'll steal your patents anyways, bury you with lawfare tactics, and in the end you'll have nothing).  Then, when not at university, go off and educate yourself. 

Those that can read and don't are no better off than those that can't.  ~ Mark Twain. 

BTW. Twain's my favorite humorist. My favorite: It's not what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you're sure you know that just ain't so!. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 07:38 | 4678956 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Frankie, to these people all of the technologies are magic. Kind of like how their EBT card gets filled monthly until it stops working one day because the wizard stops working.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:06 | 4679108 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

Mark Twain, more revelant now than ever

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:27 | 4679149 PT
PT's picture

FC:  Thankyou very much for that nice, big comment.  Now I dont feel so alone.  I've spent a bit of time wondering how other tradies solve certain problems without algebra, trig tables and calculators ( the way I was doing it ).  Eventually I learnt that they only deal with 30 and 45 degree angles, and that a lot of "sins" can be "forgiven" with a well placed whack with a hammer.

I'm actually the guy that never should have dropped out of uni ( that's another story, suffice to say that if I won lotto then I'd go back to uni and never leave - there's too much stuff I want to learn.  Why don't I go back anyway?  I want to actually use what I learn and I can't imagine acquiring capital while taking on even more debt. )  Some stuff I have "learnt" 3 times and I must say that I prefer the university's way of teaching theory over the tradesmen's approximations any day.

I had a goal of returning to some "serious study" within 3 years, but that was five years ago.  Sometimes life doesn't quite go to plan.

:(

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 10:08 | 4679303 PT
PT's picture

Regarding the "uni drop-outs who make it".  I think the fallacy lies with people assuming that the drop-outs succeeded in business because they dropped out, where the truth is probably that the drop-outs dropped out because study was getting in the way of their successful business.  And then there are the Mr Hondas of the world - they never graduate because they are not interested in graduating, they just go for the specific info that they need.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:54 | 4679879 JeffB
JeffB's picture

It sounds like you're in Europe and "Uni" doesn't equate with the "Universities" in the U.S.

For instance, in your previous post you wrote:

""Bloody hell!", I thought to myself, "Why didn't anyone tell me this ten years ago???!!!"  Then I remembered that ten years ago I was only eight years old and I didn't know anything about calculus until two years ago."

So if my math is correct, you are currently 18 yrs old.

But you dropped out of the Uni 5 years ago at age 13, if my math is correct in looking at this latest post:

"I had a goal of returning to some "serious study" within 3 years, but that was five years ago.  Sometimes life doesn't quite go to plan."

In the U.S. one wouldn't go to a university until about age 18 or so unless they had skipped a grade or more. That would be "13th grade" if they continued to number them like they do in the U.S. grade school system. Any idea what the "Unis" would equate to in the U.S. system?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:28 | 4680822 PT
PT's picture

Not quite.  I'm talking ancient history.  I dropped out of uni over 20 years ago.  So it was over 20 years ago when I was thinking, "Why didn't someone tell me this ten years ago?"  Does that clear things up for you?  Sounds like I left something out of my sentences above.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 22:49 | 4689120 JeffB
JeffB's picture

OK, thanks for the clarification.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 10:24 | 4679367 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

"Extrapolating anomalies and implying that they are statistically more probable than they are is just another form of logical fallacy."

 

I love it when I see AGW so simply summed up :)

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:23 | 4678033 LongMarch
LongMarch's picture

We got told long before. 

It's the way of the world:work fast and die young.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbbPkpzAipI&list=PLk2zYqzdHD9WKFaxcUWsff...

 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:52 | 4678109 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's like those schools patented their students and expect a return on it for the rest of their lives!!
Slaves to "knowledge"!
Man this is getting weird...
Education should be available to all for free.
And now we've got lifetime taxatiion by the state, banks and schools.
Everybody has it's piece but there's nothing left for the drone itself!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:58 | 4678124 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

SD (and any others)!  Are the schools in Europe teaching the same kind of garbage as ours are?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:24 | 4678159 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Well, education used to be great but, and I work a lot with young people, the education levels are dropping like a brick.

We used to speak 4 languages at school. Now it's 2 at max.
History, math, geography... all cut.

People know shit anymore! And the excuse is those stupid tablets! Why study when you can look it up...
they get classes: google.... how to search...
now... I don't get that. At all!
Young kids now know shit, and can't do shit anymore. And they say: we've got to adopt, the "older" people (I'm 37). Now, whenever a young kid enters my team, I setup a crash course of 6 months where I teach them everything I know and can. If they fail of lack interest, they're cut.
And sadly, 80% doesn't make it. 20% has potential but I only had 1 in the last 5 years that made it to managment.

Kids now think they know a lot but whenever I ask a question, I get the google response. And mostly I get the answer from the first 4 results. Always. And that bothers me because 90% of what's online is bullshit.

Half of the presentations I see these days at corporate level? Almost most is copy pasted from slideshare or straight from google.
And sadly, everybody thinks what they see is true!

Same for example with infographics! I hate those! You can "prove" anything you want with it without proving anything!

A book is sometimes deducted to a simple slide!! Wtf!

No, our education is not what it was a decade ago.

Recently we had a study that showed 85% of our teachers lacked the knowledge and skills to teach the courses they are giving!!! 85%!!!!

Society is dumbing down at a alarming rate. Cut the internet for 1 day and the world won't be able to operate anymore.

People ask themselves: how could we work without the internet?

I can tell you know, most people wouldn't be able to do shit.
Just watch when the servers go down in a big company. Everybody stops working and goes straight to the coffee machine.

I had college kids with all the right papers that I offered the option to go to data processing or be fired. Most are all still there since I moved them there years ago. No ambition. No skills. They love the drone work and that's what data entry is.

And remember, most of all current jobs are sales, data processors in any form and marketing.
I'm working on automatisation of sales with integrated data processing. We'll lose hundreds of jobs over here in the next year when my project is finished. And sadly... I'll be very succesfull with it. Currently I'm looking why I actually still need people in certain devisions!
My bosses still don't fully understand how everything will work but they do understand they'll make serious cost cut.
I can make the company run with 20 people instead of 450 now. And we'll move more work.

All thanks to the technology everybody still loves.
Whatever makes you work easier, actually makes it easier to replace you if connected in the right way.

If your job is to press a button, it's just a matter of time before they install a button to press all the buttons.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:47 | 4678188 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

That's why I do embedded design. We make shit that hasn't been made before. That kind of stuff makes you happy and shit.

Had to bust my ass to gain the knowledge and expertise to do that kind of stuff though. You can't bullshit your way around design...

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:35 | 4678734 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

This site sez you can bullsh!t yer way around design (software, that is): http://thedailywtf.com/

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:11 | 4678261 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Good to see you around, SD! I was worried there...

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:20 | 4678280 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'm starting up 2 new businesses and I still have a fulltime job also and it's been a total sponge on my time so far.
It's like I work 20 hours a day these last few months :)

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:46 | 4678743 franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

Keep it up, brother.  I've been studying forex for the last four years in my off time and holding down a full time job.  I've been making head way in the last month and eventually want to trade forex, futures, stocks and options full time.  I have lost about ten grand in the last four-years (I'll chalk that up to the cost of education.).  At least, you are adding innovation to society and my endeavors are really no different than that of JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs.  I'm so disgusted by my government job and the entitled assholes that work there that don't realize that their whole existence is dependent on the forced redistribution of wealth.  I'm really no better because my own lifestyle is dependent on taxes.

Nonetheless, wish you and myself the best.  Keep up the great posts and let us know your status on your entrepreneurial ventures.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:11 | 4678264 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

But SD, "thinking makes my brain hurt".....I can hear them now.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:04 | 4678703 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Thinking? I try to think ... but nuthin' happens. (R.I.P. Curly)

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:22 | 4678285 Straw Dog
Straw Dog's picture

@Sudden Debt

"If your job is to press a button, it's just a matter of time before they install a button to press all the buttons."

Great phrase, is it original to your? Maybe you should have it printed ON a button

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:51 | 4678748 franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

You aren't secretly talking about Janet Yellen are you?  Her only job is to press Ctrl-P.  Unfortunately, she can never lose her job because she is the front man for the most evil rock band ever called the Federal Reserve and her audience are full of powerful Keynesians like the President.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:25 | 4678293 Carnegie_IB
Carnegie_IB's picture

effectiveness and results matter. 

 

read Peter Drucker, Managing for Results.

 

computer is a moron, the ability to perceive is something else.  

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 02:16 | 4678757 PT
PT's picture

I am amazed how often I find "the edge of the internet".  The internet "knows everything" in the same way your local bookshop, library or newsagency "knows everything".  There is actually a lot of stuff that ain't on them shelves.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:48 | 4678349 orez65
orez65's picture

Dear Sudden Debt:

Your posts are, typically, logical and have common sense, BUT:

"Education should be available to all for free."

Please, nothing is free.

FREE education is paid by taxpayers.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:22 | 4678401 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

What you call "free education" is really nothing but training that TPTB want for their livestock.

There is very little "education" anymore and what there is isn't usually paid for by the "taxpayers".

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:35 | 4680858 PT
PT's picture

The best information is always hidden.

1.  Once it becomes common knowledge, it loses its premium.
2.  If no-one cares about it, then no-one asks about it, no-one writes books about it ... that is why modern computers don't come with built-in computer languages, memory maps or decent instruction manuals.  Frustrates the shit out of people like me, but the majority of buyers don't care.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:12 | 4678488 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

homeschooling is (mostly) free

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 07:15 | 4678910 ImGumbydmmt
ImGumbydmmt's picture

Homeschooling our daughter required my wife quit her profressional job and we moved to BFE Oregon where we could scale back to a sub 100k home and I could work from home, as an architect. Since we just turned the corner on the IRS deadline I can say, quantitatively, it costs over $100k per year to make the lifestyle change, Plus I reduced my working hours to only about 25-30 max per week.  So at an architect's market billing rate, homeschooling is thousands per month in un compensated billable revenue hours.

However I have never been happier and my commute is 16 feet to the spare bedroom, except client meeting days about once per two weeks. I have time with my family whom I dearly love, time to help in my community and a motgage less than my truck payment. we have local friends, and this year we are planting orchard tress and starting to garden.

I know my daugher and have hours with her never possible in my former life. I ask if she knows her daddy loves her and she says  " of course daddy"

Its not free, but it IS priceless. I highly recommend it to anyone.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:49 | 4679208 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

That's an enviable life and one I wish  I could transition myself into.  As of now, my wife and I are both caught up in the rat wheel and feel the ever increasing need to make more money for ??? I don't really know.  We just know we need stuff to be happier.  OF course it never works.  I am extra happy that both our educations cost us a small fortune which was partially funded through government loans.  

 

As they have made us productive tax paying citizens, I'm wondering now if fully funding some college educations wouldn't be in the best interests of the government as we pay over 30,000 dollars in Federal tax a year.  If we do that for the next 30 years, I'll pay over 1 million in fed taxes in my life.  That's a pretty good return on their investment.  But alas, I pay them a small fortune in student loans as well.  Double dipping on my success at this point.  

 

As said initially, I really wish I didn't want any of it anymore.  A peaceful slower life sounds much more appealing right now.  I'm sure it would to my two daughters as well. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 02:35 | 4678765 franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

I completely disagree.  You can make information readily available over the internet (lectures, reference material, etc.). Let people view this stuff so the barriers to education breakdown.  Why should colleges, schools etc have a monopoly on education.  Don't let Prometheus's sacrifice go to waste.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:41 | 4680879 PT
PT's picture

If you buy something from a shop and it breaks, you return it to the shop and get your money back.
If you buy something from a shop and it does not perform as advertised, you take it back to the shop, declare false advertising, and you get your money back.

So what happens when your education doesn't perform as advertised?  You've still lost four years but can you get your money back?  How do you prove that your "education" didn't teach you what you needed to know?  I guess the boss (either the one who hired you or the one who asked you a few, simple questions and then refused to hire you ) could help you sort that out. 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:43 | 4678336 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

They'll give anyone a loan now. see attached.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/education&id=9507747

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:50 | 4678452 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

Wow! Retarded down sysndrom 18 year old is accepted to college!? Lets rule out Physics, math, engineering as majors. That poor kid will probably get a student loan and be eaten for life by the banks.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 00:17 | 4678656 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Exactly.

This is a big shame as we see thru the veneer.

But most of the sheeple are bleeding hearts, etc. but would any of them volunteer to co-sign this young man's loan?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:38 | 4678738 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

What they should be doing is talking this person OUT OF signing serf-loan papers!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 00:18 | 4678657 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Exactly.

This is a big shame as we see thru the veneer.

But most of the sheeple are bleeding hearts, etc. but would any of them volunteer to co-sign this young man's loan?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:06 | 4677994 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Co-signing mom and dad for the win!

Extra Credit: basement room or subsidized apartment?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:08 | 4677998 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Eternal Slavery  Bitchezz

Dad and Mom are as stupid as you are

 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:41 | 4678085 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Back in 2000 I advised a friend not to waste his money sending his son to College because he was a very good kid but very average as a student. I told him to instead get the kid working and to put a lump sum of $30000 in gold up front.

Well he did that and the kid who is now married bought a home fully paid off about two years ago, has no debt and is happily married.

I bumped into the kid (now 32) a couple of months ago and he told me that he has already started buying gold with his savings for his own kid and for his retirement.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 05:33 | 4678855 americanreality
americanreality's picture

Wow.  That's a really impressive amount of bullshit even for this site. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:51 | 4679219 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

It sounds like your parents wasted their money and your time trying to educate you.

For your information, it's not bullshit. The kid escaped the cost of a college education and got himself a job and experience while the economy was still bubbling along and bought a house close to rock bottom.

The only bullshit is the bullshit you put up with while trying to keep your home, keep your job, feed your kids and build up a retirement fund.

In fact you vote for one or the other party, both of which deliver BS.

In fact I sense a certain envy on your behalf.

 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:05 | 4678566 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

No.  Mom and dad are far more stupid.  The kids are ignorant, and have been made that way deliberately.  All of this happened under the watchful eyes of mom and dad.  But hey, have you seen the size of his new TV?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:38 | 4678739 Andre
Andre's picture

I call bullshit on this "blame the victim" screed.

  1. In a temp job world where you have to move to keep getting paid, just TRY to keep up with what's happening in school much less influence the schoo; board.
  2. Kids can get birth control and abortions for free, no parental consent required. Oh yeah, they so powerful
  3. Dumbed down curriculum AKA sociology experiment to "improve" education #145,321 has bored some kid half to death, so he is declared ADD. He MUST take his meds so he can be a "good citizen" Try to fight that. Good luck. Oh, and meds are adminostered and monitored y the schol "nurse" 

Parents have zero say, because some "professional" who read a bunch of books and passed the test (but never raised as much as a gerbil) has a degree.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 02:27 | 4678763 PT
PT's picture

It's actually a very serious two-way push-pull system.

Dad and mum are both so busy working that neither of them have time to see the rest of their little "estate" crumbling around them.  Then they'll tell their kiddies, "Supply and Demand.  You just have to work harder, study harder, don't worry it will all pay for itself eventually!"

When the kiddies fail it'll be, "Oh, my kids are selfish and lazy and didn't deserve to succeed.  They can't and won't look after me so I'd better take on that reverse mortgage."

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:11 | 4678003 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

 

 

I got called Mentally ill this weekend for my doom and gloom stance.  

 

seriously.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:15 | 4678017 eatapeach
eatapeach's picture

Hey, at least they were kind enough to use a general term. I get very specific diagnoses.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:37 | 4678072 fattail
fattail's picture

I bet your symptons don't include Cognitive Dissonance and Normalcy Bias.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:49 | 4678101 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Actually, if he spends a lot of time on ZH, he has almost certainly encountered "Cognitive Dissonance." And Mrs. Cog.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:47 | 4678346 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

Do not forget confirmation bias, salary capture, and insurance capture.

 

                                                    Maverick

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:53 | 4678111 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

That's exactly why I stayed home for Easter

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:11 | 4678575 edotabin
edotabin's picture

"I got called Mentally ill this weekend for my doom and gloom stance."

Join the club.

 

 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:17 | 4678009 Wild tree
Wild tree's picture

Question 13!!!!

Can the USA be seriously considered as being on the world stage after Beghenzigate, Afghanstangate, Syriagate, Obamacaregate, Mexicogunrunninggate, Neverendinggolfgate, Lybiagate, Dronegate, and finally, I'mnotreallyanAmericangate. Post your answer after the New World Order forms as benefiting the serfs we are.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:35 | 4678058 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

C, the answer is always C!

EDIT:  Sorry the new current answer is Si in America!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:36 | 4678068 Wild tree
Wild tree's picture

As in "I can C clearly now, the rain has gone?????" Fraid not, the show is just starting

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:14 | 4678014 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

Careful!  If you answer that question correctly, you'll eventually get the Che treatment.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:19 | 4678022 directaction
directaction's picture

Let's see here. If she defers payment for nine years while searching for a decent job, then at age 31 settles for a minimum wage job for nine more years, and for those 18 years she won't have made a payment because you can't squeeze water out of a rock, she'll own $320,000, including accumulated interest, when she turns 40.

Then if she gets lucky and she finally finds a job paying $50,000/yr, and pays her $3,000/mo student load payment each month, she'll have to live under an overpass or in a roadside ditch for ten years because after deductions she'll have no money left for housing or food. So forget about a family, husband or kids. Her income will have been too high for food stamps so she'll have to Dumpster dive for meals and clothing. By the time she's 50 her teeth will have rotted out and her employer will have kicked her to the curb because of her wasted appearance and horrifying smell. She'll live her final 15 years wandering around homeless but her loan will have been paid off.  

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:55 | 4679242 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

You're apparently unaware of the income-based repayment option (for fed loans).  AS long as you make nothing - you pay nothing, and it counts as a payment.  If you haven't repayed after 20 years of "payments" (even if they are zero), your loan is forgiven.  Basically, making nothing is making less than 25K a year for a single I think.  For a couple with a couple kids, it's peanuts up to about 50K.  After that, it starts ratcheting up and is a pointless option above 65K as you would be paying more than the standard repayment option.  

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:20 | 4678025 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

ANSWER:  Irrelevant question.  Toga, Toga, Toga!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:25 | 4678036 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

the only real solution, is not to play.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:27 | 4678045 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Sorry, that's not an option.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:49 | 4678350 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

I've been called a "good customer" before.  Pissed me off.  But, by definition, that means there are BAD ones.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:26 | 4678039 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

IIRC, in the kid's story Pinnochio, there's a traveling circus in which kids are presented with fun games and all the treats they can eat during the day, but at closing time, the gates shut and all those trapped inside become slaves for the circus. Student loans and the party atmosphere at most colleges have a stunning parallel.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:31 | 4678053 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Pretty much spot on.  Brilliant scheme, really.  "Hey kids.  Sign up for this $80K plus loan that you can't wipe in Bankruptcy.  You'll have a helluva 4 or 5 years.  That's, like, forever."

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:21 | 4678171 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I got a Bachelor of Drinking degree in Be3r p0nG.

And a minor in Quarters.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:36 | 4678421 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

wow, you can amortize an 80K in 4-5 years.  You must be a 1% er.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:21 | 4678027 Matt
Matt's picture

$6400 per year in interest, so $8800 per year or ~$735/month to pay off in ~36 years. Inflation is irrelevant. All that matters is whether net wages minus living expenses leave $735 free each month.

In the event of Hyperinflation, that whole debt might get paid off with a day's wage. In which case, the borrower may be better off paying interest only and putting  ~$200 per month into gold, then selling during the hyperinflation and zeroing the debt.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:24 | 4678035 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Someone here (sorry, can't remember who) made the excellent point that logic militates against the bankers allowing hyperinflation for that very reason.   I would add that this doesn't mean the dollar isn't toast, but the loan will probably convert to some new SDR or some such King decreed bullshit.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:30 | 4678052 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

And by King you mean Obama or whichever fascist president is currently living in the White castle.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:34 | 4678057 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes.  When the current King is deposed and the new one crowned, 51% of the People will say "Long live the King."  

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:36 | 4678067 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Sadly, because they can vote themselves benefits from the government.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:38 | 4678075 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

The King is dead.

Long Live the King!

Sounds familiar, doesn't it - from so many Mediaeval films. In those rather more brutal days, "Battlefield Coronations" were not exactly unheard of . . .

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:57 | 4678122 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

The real kings are all of the bureaucratic overlords sitting in Washington DC, telling the prez congress critters what to do. A while back I had a chance to sit with some state and federal lobbyists and ask them questions, and the issue is that the politicians have power over more areas than they can possibly understand ("After your morning banking meeting, we've got an education bill followed by military appropriations bill after lunch. Around 4 we have an environmental group stopping by your office."), so the logical conclusion is to abdicate all of that power to people who have some understanding of a given legislative area. Which happens to be lobbyists and high-ranking bureaucrats. This is the logical outcome of a government with broad powers.

As long as there is no immediate disaster it's all good, just sign on the dotted line, make that yes vote, and the leadership PAC funds will keep rolling in.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:15 | 4678145 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I worked for a Congressman for a summer in the late '80's.  Empty shell of a guy.   I met his girlfriend.  He married the heir of one of the founders of the Dow Chemical Company and was installed (did I mention I met his girlfriend?).  He ran for Senate and lost (he's now been installed on some higher Court in Michigan).   His complete douchebag chief of staff Dave Camp took over his spot and is now a pretty powerful Congressman.  The guy I worked for answered to Dow.  I'm pretty sure his replacement does too. 

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:57 | 4678121 vie
vie's picture

Wage inflation perhaps?  I would generally agree except for evidence to the contrary.  Perhaps you forget they get the freshly printed money first.

You're thinking of Banks who make loans, not TBTF banks who gamble with your money in the markets.  TBTF banks would probably love to see some hyperinflation, since they 1) borrow money for 0% 2) they buy assets off all us proles as we go bust due to commodity inflation, 3) profit  4) short the market, rinse and repeat.

Pretty sure TBTF banks aren't worried one bit about inflation.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:31 | 4678414 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Think Japanese inflation. Wages down and everything else is up.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:46 | 4678215 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Rand-0

bankers don't 'allow' hyperinflation...they help cause it...it is the weakness and inability of governments to behave (and we the people who elect them) that pushes the whole pile into HI collapse. HI hurts them the most but like every other fiat currency before it the dollar is heading that way redardless of what anyone 'wants'.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:39 | 4678322 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

" I would add that this doesn't mean the dollar isn't toast, but the loan will probably convert to some new SDR or some such King decreed bullshit."

That is exactly what they plan on doing. They know what we know, that the current fiat currencies are toast and so is their gravy-train. No problem, just force that all debts are in the local fiat and SDRs and bada-bing, perpetual debt even through hyperinflation.

“Dear Mr. Jones, Yes your debt in dollars is the equivalent of a loaf of bread, however, we only except SDRs. We are therefore returning your dollar payment and ask that you please be so kind to resubmit your payment to us for $SDR234,525 or 234,525 loaves of bread. Thank you. Sincerely, your local bankster from Tel Aviv.

 

"One day my guillotine will make all of my debt payments."

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:36 | 4678522 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

moved

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:37 | 4678095 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

"In the event of Hyperinflation, that whole debt might get paid off with a day's wage."

That would obviously not be allowed to happen. Of course, it won't be prevented by preventing hyperinflation. What it means is that we can be certain that at some point in the not to distant future, all debts will be recalculated in the New Dollars, and all of your old dollars will be worthless unles you trade them in for New Dollars at an unfair exchange rate. The usual exceptions will be made to benefit the usual cronies.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:48 | 4678219 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Jim

France tried something like that in between Asignats and mandats....did not work.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:48 | 4678220 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Jim

France tried something like that in between Asignats and mandats....did not work.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:48 | 4678221 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Jim

France tried something like that in between Asignats and mandats....did not work.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:28 | 4678047 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Stupid is as stupid does.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:35 | 4678064 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Can the loan be repaid before the Student dies of old age? Dying of "Old Age" (a.k.a. "Living to a Ripe Old Age") may well be a fond memory of a former "Golden Age" for our Student - his generation will be facing a somewhat "more uphill struggle" with the inexorable demise of cheap energy, pollution, environmental damage / overexploitation, normal climatic variation, and to top that all off, an increasingly isolationist Society, both on a National, and individual level (for which you can thank the "Smart Phone" obsession).

Even if the Ukraine situation manages to settle (despite the West's attempts to continually rock the boat), rest assured there will be plenty more real, and "Manufactured" Crises already in gestation. If Mother Nature decides to "get the shits" and add some major Global event to the cauldron, I'd safely wager that our Student will be long pusing up dasies well before "Old Age"!!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:39 | 4678080 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And don't forget meth, all the drugs that they talk about on tee vee that I haven't heard of, prescription pills, etc.

Thus, the parental co-sign.   It's the hidden inheritance tax for the middle class.  Even if your kids manage to outlive you, your house and assets go directly to TBTF bank to repay your kid's student loan when you die.  

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:32 | 4678611 hootowl
hootowl's picture

Indentured servitude to the U.S. Government.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:39 | 4678082 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

What's a SAT?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:45 | 4678094 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It's what Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc don't look at if your last name is correct.  Otherwise, it determines how much you are going to pay for college.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 00:59 | 4678695 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

FINALLY!!!! Something we can agree on.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:52 | 4678110 Lokking4AnEdge
Lokking4AnEdge's picture

"Stupid American Test"...................

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:43 | 4678087 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Now if they were to take that 80k and just open up a brokerage account then buy e-minis one could double their money in half a year max, paying back principal plus interest.  Its free money!  All you have to do is buy the dips; it works 100% of the time and is so easy a monkey could do it!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:50 | 4678105 Lokking4AnEdge
Lokking4AnEdge's picture

No kidding! I actually know a son of a neighbour who is doing exactly that!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 18:48 | 4678100 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

8%?!?!!?
People signing up on those shouldn't even be allowed in!!!!
JJJEEEZZZ!!!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:04 | 4678143 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

No, no!

The administration gets a cut of the action, so we need to get as many of them in as we can, get them to double major, go on a couple study abroad trips, and don't forget grad school without those pesky research assistantships! Or even better, make college "free" so the administration can expand the 20-person hot tub to a full water park! Don't you care about your child's education?

Remember that after the student dies and parents are dead or broke, the rest falls to the taxpayer :)

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:36 | 4678195 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

An acquintance has a friend who just finished her Master's Degree in Social Work and got her student loan payment information:

$724 per month for 10 years.

WTF?  More defaults coming.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:04 | 4678371 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Ho Li Fuk. You can't pay that kinda money unless you earn 80K or more. Social Work = volunteering, non? What does a Bachelors in Volunteering get you these days?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 00:56 | 4678692 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

I was kinda surprised to see a surge in "non-profit management" degree seekers here, and it works like this: You start up some BS 501(c)3, fill out a bunch of grant applications, and if that fails, "sue" certain government agencies with citizen courts. They settle for a couple million, the non-profit recycles some of the cash back into some campaigns, and everyone's happy. There is more than a little astroturf advocacy on college campuses, and it's done to recruit the next round of radicals. ActivUs is one example.

If you are in on the game of course. Otherwise, maybe you can get some free internships so you can start that $30k/yr job?

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 08:02 | 4682065 PT
PT's picture

"You physicists always need sooooooo much money - for super-computers, super-cooling equipment, electron microscopes, quantum measuring tools and whatever else.  Why can't you be more like the maths department?  All they need is pencils, paper and waste-paper baskets.  Or what about the philosophy department?  They don't even need the waste-paper baskets!"

The point being, what equipment do you need to teach social work?  A pen, a paper, a classroom?  Occasional field trip?  (And who pays for the transport to the field trip?)

Gold mine?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:53 | 4678456 Axenolith
Axenolith's picture

Thats a "work your ass off enough to get good credit, transfer it to a card or two and go bankrupt" kind of payment.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:29 | 4678607 hootowl
hootowl's picture

Just what we need, more social workers.

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 08:04 | 4682069 PT
PT's picture

Yes.  We need them to counsel all them graduates who are over-worked and over-stressed because they have too much debt ...

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:43 | 4678209 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

I wholehearted like the idea of trade school instead of college for some kids. There is nothing wrong with working with your hands to create or repair a product that we all want.

Happy 420 day, Bitchez!!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:51 | 4678224 Snoopy the Economist
Snoopy the Economist's picture

I share the negative views in general but here is a positive story. My son graduated 2 yrs ago with BS in computer eng. He had offers from 3 top companies and took MSFT. In two short years he is making >$110K and is now making more than me. He graduated with $60k in debt and has already paid off half - I told him to concetrate on paying off the debt.

Sure, the average graduate got the wrong degree and probably wasn't concentrating on grades or had the charismatic personality that my son does - but it is possible to succeed. At this rate his debt will be zero in two more years and his salary will be all profit for the next 50 yrs of his life. Sure, there are those that think it will all collapse but that is a low probability scenario in the next 10 yrs - many people will still be employed and my son will likely be among them.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 19:58 | 4678233 Midnight Rider
Midnight Rider's picture

There are always those that will do well. The 0.001% are doing very, very well. But, I don't that that's the point of the article.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:26 | 4678500 Kprime
Kprime's picture

Sooo, he makes 110K, government taxes away 60-70%,  with the remaining 33K per year he paid 15K each year in principal, plus interest and fees. Leaving perhaps 15K for his enjoyment.  Does he get out of your basement much?

 

And yesss, the 30% of his salary that he gets to keep will be his to spend the rest of his life, or until the next government pension emergency that requires he contribute even more to the six figure incomes, free healthcare, pensions worth 5 times the average public pension and granted after only 20 stressful years of jacking off to the sights and sounds of the government computers in their offices.  All his masters at gunpoint.

You son is a real winner, I kid you not.  Laaaa hoooss saay herrr.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:28 | 4678606 hootowl
hootowl's picture

Is your son paying his fair share of the medical costs for the 30,000,000 new illegal aliens covered by OvomitCare yet?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 08:24 | 4679009 kurt
kurt's picture

Immigration is an act of love! Vato.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:18 | 4679137 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Please tell me where you get your income taxes done. If you're paying 60% on $110k - that's $66,000 in taxes, mind you -  I want to stay far away from that charlatan.

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 12:24 | 4681150 Snoopy the Economist
Snoopy the Economist's picture

Kprime: What kind of moron are you with this BS math? Who pays 70% in taxes with $110k salary - nobody.

Do you get out of your mothers' basement much? From your comment it sounds like you may be an FSA leech.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 02:22 | 4678760 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

MSFT, huh? Yeah, real bright future there. I'd say they have another couple iterations of Windoze left in them and they'll peddle a few more clunky peripherals and fade quietly into irrelevance. The next 50 years? lol. Good for you, Bright Eyes. Should be smooth sailing for the remainder of his days until he hops in the Winnebago and makes for Lake Havasu. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 04:48 | 4678827 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

The WSJ does call MSFT an 'anitquated software hardware company' fading into the sunset;   These dinosaurs just dont get it

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 09:02 | 4679103 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Gee, at MSFT, he might just meet three or four other really smart dudes, and once they've busted their student loans down to manageable size, they'll quit, start their own firm, and make their own way. It's happened hundreds of times. Where you start doesn't have anything to do with where you'll end up.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:29 | 4678286 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The FEDs pay for me to go to college so I don't have any loans. I think the banks have now worked it out to where they only need a warm body and then they re-hypothecate it to make it all work out.

They are the smartest and brightest so who knows how they do it.

Yeeeehaaa its the end of the world and Ima going to college. Accepted by the UC (Janet Napolitano's) System at both colleges I applied to. 

Up my FAFSA Yellen mothafucka. You've got a genius from Q99X2 coming your way. Goin to show his co-eds how to buy their first home with a student loan.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:36 | 4678317 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

If you want to see who is the beneficiary of the standardised testing farce and related businesses, check out Kaplan Inc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaplan,_Inc.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:19 | 4678701 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

RIGHT.  Because 14$ is too damn expensive for a book. and, well, Barnes and Noble doesn't serve metropolitan areas.  Oh yeah, I almost forgot.  Self learning isn't real.

 

Oops, I forgot. The college board offers their OWN test prep series.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 20:49 | 4678352 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Who would have thought higher education would turn into a racket.

I am telling the grand kids to forgo higher education, instead cultivating skills of the head and hands necessary for the trades and small business.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 21:42 | 4678434 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Student

 

Loan

 

Suicides

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:00 | 4678468 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

Is the next question, you want to take a FHA loan but would need to know the down payment.  What's 3.5% of $300k?  Ridiculous!

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:53 | 4678556 Jena
Jena's picture

But there's also a government option: A person I know has $200,000 in student loans.  She isn't too worried about paying them off though, because she works for a local municipality.  With a big grin, she told me that if a person works for any municipal, county, state or federal government agency for ten years, your student loans will be forgiven. She's about five years into her added loans from her Master's degree at a very expensive private so Cal college.

What a deal, huh?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 22:59 | 4678562 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

A 'forgiven' student loan is a student loan transferred from the loanee to the taxpayers. The irony is that the loans are to get the education to understand that simple fact, which none of the loanees are learning and almost none of them understand.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 04:00 | 4678799 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

Clever girl, good for her, use the system, your politicians have no problem using it for their own means.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:39 | 4680518 zipit
zipit's picture

Welfare Mama

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 05:21 | 4678847 Oliver Jones
Oliver Jones's picture

Before you know it, there will be new staff cutbacks - and those prioritised for the next cull will be graduates with 9 years of experience...

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 23:15 | 4678582 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I always laugh when I hear that the dollar is toast.

The reality is that those holding it are toast.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 01:50 | 4678745 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Same story with 'americans' who for certain reasons cant resist the urge of painting themselves as inherently moral beings.

'Americans' do not take debt to pay it back. They take up debt to consume more. That is why they are so eager on not paying it back by the way.

In a global world as this world was made by 'americans', education monopoly is a stake 'americans' cant avoid to try monopolizing.

The thing is that due to the concentration of wealth and the inequalities that follow, most 'americans' are made irrelevant to their direct environment, only a few can offer the social value that is required to provide to an 'american' environment.
That is why education is mostly useless for most 'americans'. Most of them wont achieve the level of social value not to be expendable.

Reversely, due to inequalities, for many other countries, education is relevant as they start from much lower. A small level of education ensures they gain social value as they can contribute immediately to the betterment of the immediate environment.

As education is a global commodity (as wished by 'americans'), how to ensure that 'americans' still get the lion's share of the consumption?

Debt. 'Americans' will inflate the price of education so that only them who can go into debt without thinking of repaying it can consume education.

That is all. Move on.

'Americans' always try to paint their consumption act with another light than the mere consumption act.

But the final goal for 'americans' in any consumption act is to consume.

'Americans' consume for the sake of consuming.

Education is no different.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 03:58 | 4678797 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

The Internet is international, a person will very soon be able to obtain a first class education in any field they wish over the web for next to nothing and that will be the end of the US model of education, this has already started and will accelerate over the next decade.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 10:06 | 4679296 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

The problem, even now, isn't receiving the education.  The books necessary to do that have existed for 100 years.  It's just become easier and more personal to use platforms specific to teaching it over the net.  

 

The real problem is how do you screen what these people have learned?  That's the supposed value of a college to businesses right now.  They provide 4 years of prescreening (at least in theory they do) so that you don't have to waste your time evaluating a loser.  

 

Once evaluations have been perfected and vlaidated over the net, the American education system really could be in trouble.  

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 02:41 | 4678768 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

My daughter left home early and got a job in Europe (Germany) which paid poorly with long boring hours.  She did not need much convincing  to get back into University and now enjoys studying for a Masters.   At least she is likely to get a more interesting job when she graduates.   Keeping the student loan as small as possible, that's the trick.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 08:01 | 4678982 forwardho
forwardho's picture

One would truly hope that you merely forgot the /sarc tag on your post.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:38 | 4680508 zipit
zipit's picture

Purt down the crack pipe, to-mo-po-zo.  She will be polishing knobs for rent money if she's lucky, else flipping burgers.  (Unless she gets masters from Ivy League.  Then she can get a $100k+ job.)

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 07:10 | 4678931 Last of the Mid...
Last of the Middle Class's picture

Don't worry about it, Common core is on it's way. The next generation will ge so indoctrinated they will be too stupid to know they're fucked from the get go. It's all good.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 08:25 | 4679013 madcows
madcows's picture

That's ok.  Our town doesn't even give out real report cards anymore.  They're just evaluations based on level of effort.  Who needs to achieve when all you need to do is convince them that you tried

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 08:25 | 4679014 kurt
kurt's picture

Best comment was how did they turn education into a racket?

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