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Ron Paul Warns The Nevada Standoff Is A Symptom of Increasing Authoritarianism

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Ron Paul via The Ron Paul Institute,

The nation’s attention has for the past few weeks been riveted by a standoff in Nevada between armed federal agents and the Bundys, a ranching family who believe the federal government is exceeding its authority by accessing “fees” against ranchers who graze cattle on government lands. Outrage over the government's use of armed agents to forcibly remove the Bundys’ cattle led many Americans to travel to Nevada to engage in non-violent civil disobedience in support of the family.

The protests seem to have worked, at least for now, as the government appears to have backed off from direct confrontation. Sadly, some elected officials have inflamed the situation by labeling the Bundys and their supporters “domestic terrorists,” thus justifying any future use of force by the government. That means there is always the possibility of another deadly Waco-style raid on the Bundys or a similar group in the future.

In a state like Nevada, where 84 percent of the land is owned by the federal government, these types of conflicts are inevitable. Government ownership of land means that land is in theory owned by everyone, but in practice owned by no one. Thus, those who use the land lack the incentives to preserve it for the long term. As a result, land-use rules are set by politicians and bureaucrats. Oftentimes, the so-called “public” land is used in ways that benefit politically-powerful special interests.

Politicians and bureaucrats can, and will, arbitrarily change the rules governing the land. In the 19th currently, some Americans moved to Nevada because the government promised them that they, and their descendants, would always be able to use the federally-owned land.  The Nevada ranchers believed they had an implied contract with the government allowing them to use the land for grazing. When government bureaucrats decided they needed to restrict grazing to protect the desert tortoise, they used force to drive most ranchers away.

By contrast, if the Nevada land in question was privately owned, the dispute over whether to allow the ranchers to continue to use the land would have likely been resolved without sending in federal armed agents to remove the Bundys’ cattle from the land. This is one more reason why the federal government should rid itself of all federal land holdings. Selling federal lands would also help reduce the federal deficit.

It is unlikely that Congress will divest the federal government’s land holdings, as most in government are more interested in increasing government power then in protecting and restoring private property rights.

A government that continually violates our rights of property and contract can fairly be descried as authoritarian. Of course, the politicians and bureaucrats take offense at this term, but how else do you describe a government that forbids Americans from grazing cattle on land they have used for over a century, from buying health insurance that does not met Obamacare’s standards, from trading with Cuba, or even from drinking raw milk! That so many in DC support the NSA spying and the TSA assaults on our privacy shows the low regard that too many in government have for our rights. 

History shows us that authoritarian systems, whether fascist, communist, or Keynesian, will inevitably fail. I believe incidents such as that in Nevada show we may be witnessing the failure of the American authoritarian warfare-welfare state -- and that of course would be good. This is why it so important that those of us who understand the freedom philosophy spread the truth about how statism caused our problems and why liberty is the only solution.

 

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Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:07 | 4679501 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

No shit sherlock?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:26 | 4679564 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Ron Paul for chancellor of the universe!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:30 | 4679577 European American
European American's picture

Armed Citizens and a Fascist Police State cannot coexist.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:39 | 4679605 ATM
ATM's picture

for long....

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:03 | 4679675 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

After Patriot Act 1&2, NDAA, DHS and militarization of Police, this is obvious. Only the dumb, head up their ass american cannot see this trend.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:28 | 4679759 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Armed force seems to be the universal answer to everything. Any letter you get from government throws laws and penalties in your face. You know there is a guy with a gun behind it if necessary.

The other piece of the puzzle is the infinite complexity of the law, now. Whether doing your taxes or waking up one day to find that the land your cattle graze on is now under federal jurisdiction because of a common turtle...is all part of the near impossibility of complying with every law. You simply cannot get them right or even know them all. What was legal or proper one day is illegal the next. Plus, when you make an admin error on sayyyy, taxes it is not treated as an error. It is treated as fraud. That is why there area always penalties and interest attached.

IT all adds up to an authoritarian perimssion society easily abused by those in power. And it is.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:01 | 4679919 un1ty
un1ty's picture

Ahh, "permissive authoritarianism."

 

Thats a mouthful!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:15 | 4679979 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

It feels good to be able to choose your slavemasters.

Of course it's Hobson's Choice.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:51 | 4680711 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

"This is one more reason why the federal government should rid itself of all federal land holdings. Selling federal lands would also help reduce the federal deficit."

Screw the federal deficit. The federal gov't should be dismantled and the debt defaulted on. A treasury bond is nothing more than a collateralized promise to steal from those who have yet to be born sometime in the future. This is a horrible investment, and there should be consequences for investing in such an immoral financial instrument (i.e. you should get nothing in return).

Federal lands should be divied up to the local populations in the form of stock. Everyone gets in equal proportion of the stock which they can then sell to whomever they wish or they can keep it (and they can buy more from those who are selling if they please). This is how land should be privatized. A simple sale or auction will result in below market sweetheart deals being given to politically well-connected shysters. Screw that.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 21:27 | 4681388 long-shorty
long-shorty's picture

"This is one more reason why the federal government should rid itself of all federal land holdings."

Yosemite will be prettier after Larry Ellison buys it.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:29 | 4680840 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

'The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws'.

Tacitus

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:30 | 4679770 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Politicians and bureaucrats can, and will, arbitrarily change the rules governing the land.

Politicians can, and will, arbitrarily change the rules governing the populations as well, no?

I see you have zero mentions about your efforts to change the Constitution to remove female body sovereignty over at your lovely website link offered here.

fortunately some who pay attention are aware that your esteemed politician son Rand is still on the case, albeit with updated language from your own years long efforts.

while I realise your many followers here have no interest in full "libertarian" rights for all, merely whatever is on their own checklist - rest assured,

that those of us who understand the freedom philosophy spread the truth about how statism caused our problems and why liberty is the only solution

are not even remotely interested in allowing more statism to remove our Freedoms, and extend the "liberty" of body sovereignty to all humans, not government selected "personhoods".

we could all use a working definition of Libertarian, and "anarcho-capitalist"  together with all the other labels most loved here, with all the little caveats included. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:57 | 4679895 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

abortion is such an odd topic for the average Libertarian, I think. Because there is a relatively consistent philosophy (I could, and do argue that the logical conclusion should be anarchism vs. libertarianism, but that's a different topic) most positions are fairly easy to find a consensus. Find the position that supports freedom and there is your party's position. But in the case of abortion, as cliche as this is to write, whose freedom are we considering? I don't agree with RP on this topic, but I guess I can understand his POV.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:20 | 4680000 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

anarchism vs libertarianism?

clearly you have never read walter block or murray rothbard.

Rothbard was the pre-eminent 'anarchist'. (In the true sense... anarchy does not mean chaos...it merely means lack of a political authority).

As to your view on abortion, Ron Paul's view's are from his personal experience of the arbitrariness of what constitutes abortion. 20 weeks and 6 days is a-ok for abortion but 21 weeks is not?

Again I think it was Walter Block who wrote about abortionism in terms of eviction theory and private property.

Theoretically if you believe in private property rights, then much like you can evict a tenant from your abode, a woman should be able to 'evict' a fetus from her womb. The distinction here is the other libertarian principle of non-violence. Can you forcibly remove a person from your property? The answer would be yes. But what if that person is incapacitated? Would you be allowed to evict them if doing so killed them?

If that is your theory then anytime someone refuses to leave my house, I am allowed to shoot them dead on the spot, even if they present no physical threat to me, since I have the right to evict them.

Ron Paul like's to err' on the side of life. And I tend to agree.

People talk about the 'woman's choice'. Well I put it to you, she had the choice when she first decided to sleep with a man (not implying the man is not responsible either, but we're talking about the woman's choice here). Are we saying that just because she changes her mind later, she can kill a life? If that's the situation, then any parent has the legal right to kill their children at any time after birth too (say a disabled child for instance). The woman's freedom is reduced (temporarily for 9 months) once she makes a decision to have sex.

If she didn't have the choice, it's rape, and most people would agree that abortion then is permissible. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:30 | 4680039 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

i have changed my view on this subject a lot. having seen my son on an ultrasound at 13 weeks, it is most definetely a tiny person in there, not a 'fetus' or 'clump of cells'. as a libertarian, i believe all people, including unborn children, have natural rights, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Part of that is the right not to be killed because your existence is inconvienent to the people who created you. I understand there is a grey area, such as where the pregnancy is at risk of killing the mother, etc, but that is a tiny fraction of the abortions that take place

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:10 | 4680192 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

we're talking Constitutional Amendments re: zygotes, the moment a sperm and egg unite, not ultra-sound pics.

and we're talking about zero leeway with regards a rape, incest, etc. 

can you perhaps extend your empathy to include a young female impregnated by her father/uncle/brother, who might feel quite insane at having to carry that story in her body for the better part of a year?

I'm only matching emotive tale with emotive tale - but the point is what you're making, every child a wanted child - yes?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:31 | 4680658 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

are you indicating that the young female WILLINGLY slept with her father/uncle/brother?

If unwilling we are back to the 'rape' argument and termination of the pregnancy (along with where it threatens the mothers life) is a sufficient argument.

If willingly, we are back to the argument of taking responsibility for your actions. Who are you to decide to terminate a life just because it has an inconvenient story attached to it? What if the mother is a drug addict? or has a genetic defect? What if they don't have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:16 | 4681026 logicalman
logicalman's picture

At 13 weeks a human embryo would not survive in the outside world.

Millions of embryos don't make it.

Unfortunately, myself and my ex were forced to make a decision in this regard.

Due to my being on Methtrexate for rheumatoid arthritis and failure on the contraceptiojn front.

Metho causes terrible birth defects in very many cases. To quote the doc "any part or parts are likely to either not develop or develop wrong - you may not want to go there.

If you've never had to make the decision, you don't understand.

I have huge issues with people making decisions when they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

 

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 00:47 | 4681789 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

why do you have huge issues about this?

I am disputing the morality of terminating a fetus that is not viable, endangers the mother, was due to rape etc.

I'm talking about the 90% of cases where abortions are done for convenience.

I do not fault your decision. But your case is in the minority.

I know the statistics, 40+% of pregnancies end in miscarriages. Most without the mother even knowing.

What I have issues with is people who think abortion is birth control, under the guise of 'woman's rights'.

 

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 11:18 | 4682656 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

"If you've never had to make the decision, you don't understand.  I have huge issues with people making decisions when they have no idea what they are talking about."

 

Thank you, you are absolutely correct and I have huge issues too with the authoritarian types thinking THEY should be able to dictate to an adult woman, her absolute RIGHT to control her OWN body.  Who the hell do they think they are?  If it isn't YOUR uterus personally involved, you don't get to make ANY decisions about it.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:36 | 4680068 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

lots of assumptions that you might want to look into here, including

it's rape, and most people would agree that abortion then is permissible.

the repubs, including the Paul family lineage disagree with you here.

and this,

the man is not responsible either,

is so very true - nowhere is there any proposed Constitutional amendments or laws that even acknowledge the sacred sperm donor's role in making a baybee.

as to your "forcible eviction of a person from your property" - at what point do you begin a definition of "violence"?  every woman will occasionally spontaneously "abort" a fertilised egg without even being aware of this, in the normal course of menstruation over her lifetime.  so, oh dear, how will be make double-plus sure that her womb doesn't "abort" its mission of baby-making?  shall we chip 'er when she's young and monitor her monthly cycles just to make sure?  given the history of "government" - given the right-to-life of a zygote, sounds fucking plausible down the road. . .

yes, completely non-sensical - I agree.  but then, who'd a thunk half a century ago that men would be so very concerned with a ZYGOTE's right to existence?  particularly in the absence of wanting to support that said zygote's right to be fed, nurtured, schooled, have adequate health care, etc.??

ya can't have it both ways lads - either you want a full on nanny state cradle to grave, or you give females full body sovereignty and let them make the decision on whether they believe they can support a child in the current economic climate they exist within.

until then - donate to charity or adopt.  keep your rights separate from theirs.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:07 | 4680185 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

She had her "choice" and CHOSE to have unprotected sex.

All they'd need to do to send you little whiners scrambling for cover is say "In the case of rape".....

ONLY "in the case of rape", is it allowed.

Verifiable, found guilty in a court of law, sentenced by a jury of your peers, RAPE.

Otherwise, it's just murder of convenience.

And that cute little "zygote" moniker is less effective than the "parasite" label I've heard used.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:34 | 4680266 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

tad hysterical there dude. 

and I didn't make up the word for gamete-unity, I'm just pointing to the absurdity of involving the government in female body sovereignty.

take it up with yer voting ballot, I've made my arguments.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:44 | 4680525 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

but where does govt involvement begin and end? Is the govt going to be involved in paying for these abortions for those who can't afford them? Becuase right now, the govt is VERY involved in 'female body sovereignty'. And it is taking money from people, at gunpoint, to pay for others abortions. I think that since it is not mentioned in the constitution, that means it is left up to the states. If we are going to get govt out of it, then govt needs to stop using tax dollars to pay for it

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:39 | 4680873 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

Medicare has spent $172 million dollars on penis pumps in the last five years at $363 a pop.  I don't think government should be paying for some old goat to get a hard-on either.  However, we don't get to choose cafeteria style what gets funded.  P.S.  You might want to check out Hyde Amendment.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 18:21 | 4680993 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

You are a eunuch, my friend. 

Castrated by the very system you rail against.

"Body sovereignty" !

A victim of the public school indoctrination system.

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 14:38 | 4687406 fallout11
fallout11's picture

You must be new here, or you would know by now that Cathartes is a woman.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:54 | 4680726 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

Firstly, abortion due to rape is the fringe case for abortion. Don't get hung up on the 7% issue for the 93% of abortions that have nothing to do with rape, the arguments are still valid. Solve for the 93% then we can argue whether Ron Paul and the repubs agree with abortion in cases of rape (by then we'd only be arguing about a few hundred abortions a year instead of 1.5 million). From a religious point of view I don't feel it is morally right to terminate the child due to the sins of the father, ON THE OTHER HAND, it is JUSTIFIABLE, in the case of rape. (in the same way that I don't agree in killing people, but in a self defense situation shooting an intruder dead is JUSTIFIABLE, even though taking another human life is not 'moral').

Secondly, holy shit, you're like the MSM. selectively quoting to twist words.

I SAID "(not implying the man is not responsible either, but we're talking about the woman's choice here)"

in otherwords, I am saying the man IS responsible for the child as well and should take responsibility. The difference is the man is not carrying the child nor terminating it.

If a man strikes a pregnant woman who miscarries the charge is homicide. Why then is it any different for an abortion?

per wordnik vi•o•lence (v???-l?ns) ? n. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence. n. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.

So where in a miscarriage is a 'physical force exerted' for the 'PURPOSE' of violating, damaging or abusing? Oh wait I know, you'll twist it and say the mother's body is forcibly exerting the fetus for the purpose of violating it. 

How do I contrast this to the insertion of a metal rod or saw that dismembers a fetus or a drug that induces pre-term labor to expel the fetus? Need I even explain the obvious?

And your argument about wanting it either way is nonsensical. We don't need the state to enforce abortion or anti-abortion laws either. That's not what we're proposing. We're discussing the moral and philosophical arguments of whether abortion is moral or not. We are not saying throw the mother in jail or strap her down until she has the baby. 

Your argument is EXACTLY the same as gay people arguing for marriage equality. Completely dumb. If gay people want to get married, that is for THEM and their religion (if any) and their partner/family to decide what consitutes marriage. We are saying the STATE should not define marriage. It is no use arguing for the STATE to recognize gay marriage. The STATE should recognize NO marriages AT ALL. It has no authority to. If we agree first on what is moral, consistent and logical, then we can take the next step on how to let society handle this. People have it the wrong way around. GAY people shouldn't be petitioning for marriage equality, STRAIGHT people should be petitioning for derecognition of the state marriage license requirements.

In the same way we are not saying the STATE should enforce abortion or not. We are wanting to first agree on what is moral, consistent and logical, and then take the next step on determining how society will handle this.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 18:37 | 4681027 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Let's allow retroactive abortion. (Hey, they STILL came from a womans body, her RIGHT, right?)

Allow it to age 30, if they are still underproducing (live at home, drug users, receiving govt assistance, uneducated.....) give mom an incentive to OFF the little usurper ! Think of the LIFETIME of nanny state $$$$ we'd save killing the younger ones.

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 18:39 | 4684459 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

Funny how you whine about a "nanny" state when you advocate for patriarchal "nannies" to control/dictate a woman's right over her OWN body.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:45 | 4680103 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"But what if that person is incapacitated? Would you be allowed to evict them if doing so killed them?"

Call an ambulance for them and let them pay for needed help.

Perhaps you should try and think of a cultural basis of abortion and anti-abortion beliefs.

I'll give you a clue: a differing morality of the foragers and the townsfolk.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:47 | 4680115 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

Are you sure you're a "libertarian" or do you just like the "fashionable label?"  You sound more like a social conservative to me.  Goverment small enough to fit in uteri and bedrooms.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:43 | 4680260 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I side with the living as opposed to the unborn. A fetus that can't survive outside the womb is only potential, chattel at the very most, if it has any standing at all, and thus may be disposed of as the possessor sees fit. It cannot have rights of its own. The precious, wanted child seen on one ultrasound could, on another, be the death knell of all hopes and dreams and a lodestone around the neck. If you are arguing on reglious grounds that it has a soul at conception, from what I understand of such matters, that soul is quite as safe as those 10 to 20 percent of all pregnancies that end in miscarriage. The logic of your arguments is faulty and tortuous at best, and you are hardly comparing apples to apples in any case in comparing the living to the unborn. To whom does a womb belong? A society that says that one woman must carry a child is just as dangerously likely to say that another woman must be sterilized to prevent her breeding for equally good reasons, and don't think there haven't been cases of forced sterilization. Its a slippery slope, and these sorts of decisions are best left at the individual level lest you find your own precious rights infringed on at some point for the greater good of society. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:11 | 4680422 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Interesting. I've never heard the crime of eugenics, specifically forced sterilization, used as a defense of abortion rights, but you are absolutely correct. Interestingly, it's the pro-life crowd who has seemed to co-opt the horror of eugenics as a defense of their position.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:32 | 4680493 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

ya, it is typically the prolife crowd that uses that arguement. But what that guy is saying is far different. Making a woman carry a baby she created is far different than steriilizing certain women. Many of the people lionized in the planned parenthood type community have said and wrote many pro euginics type arguements. Im not a social conservative, I am an ardent athiest, I just feel like at some point, on some level, you ARE killing a living being through abortion. You can color it up to sound better all you want, but that is what you are doing. Ive always been very conflicted on this issue. On one hand, I am in favor of pretty much anything that doesnt involve the govt interfering in peoples lives. However, at some point, that child has rights. It doesnt suddenly become 'alive' when it comes thorugh the vagina. In some places, you can go get an abortion at any point in the prenancy, up to the point where the baby can survive outside of the womb. I do agree that women should have that option in cases of rape, incest, etc. The biggest problem I have with the pro choice crowd is their hypocracy about govts role in all this. They always say things like "get the govt out of my bedroom" and its 'my body, my choice' 'none of anyone elses business', etc, etc. But, it is the govts job to pay for all of it. Which means the people, many of whom object to it for various reasons, are forced to pay for these people's abortions, at gunpoint. So its not our business, but it IS our financial responsibility.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:47 | 4680531 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I refuse to be drawn into an arguement about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or when life begins. I am simply contending that no one but the person concerned has a right to any say in a decision as intimately and fundamentally personal as this. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:12 | 4680786 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

again no where in any of my arguemnts have I said the STATE should enforce these abortions or anti-abortion laws. Everyone here so far has put their own perception of 'pro-life' 'people' into my arguments and countered that argument.

I am solely arguing the morality of abortion.

Ron Paul's first experience with abortion was (and some may say this is a fairy tale), as an intern, seeing a baby being forcibly delivered, and left to die in a pail, since it was being aborted. Shortly afterwards he saw a similarly aged baby, pre-term, being given all the help they could to save it. It is the arbitrariness of how we choose who lives and who dies that formulated his views on abortion.

I haven't found much on his past as a physician, but it's not uncommon for OB/GYNs to have to kill the fetus to save the mother. There are various instances where a fetus gets stuck (cord wrapped around the neck, various cysts or other growths on the fetus that cause them to be too large to pass vaginally), and the mother can bleed profusely. If the fetus is not dismembered and removed, the mother will die. I'm guessing, but Ron Paul likely would have had to experience this too. Yes it's 'violent', but the intent (purpose) was not to destroy, but to save a life (the mother's). As a 'pro-lifer', I just don't like how we can arbitrarily decide that a child is an inconvenience and destroy it, yet spend millions to save a single child with cancer.

I am solely asking everyone here, is it moral to destroy a fetus because it is unwanted? Is this the society we choose to build? To reduce the choice of life to whether you feel like it or not? whether its convenient or not?

I'm a realist. I know if you close all abortion clinics abortions will still continue. I'm not wanting to focus on the abortion clinic, I want to focus on:

1. why we think its ok to terminate a pregnancy and 

2. why we actually do it

 

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:48 | 4680826 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

You can argue morality all day, and morality is highly subjective in any case, but ultimately what it comes down to is who the womb belongs to and whether a woman's body belongs to her, as a man's does, or whether under certain conditions it belongs to someone or something else. That is the first principle here. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:22 | 4680510 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I've noticed that the anti-abortion crowd tend to appeal with emotional arguments rather than logic. The argument regarding eugenics would only work for them if abortions were compelled. My cousin has two children who are mentally disabled. They were sterilized, but that decision was made by their guardians who loved them had their best interests at heart, not the state or society at large, which has no business in such personal decisions. I'm not arguing that sterilization is not sometimes appropriate, just that it is not a decision that belongs to society or the state anymore than legislating that a defective fetus should be terminated or a pregnancy must be carried to term. These decisions are personal and belong solely to the individuals concerned if we are a free people. If we are chattel, then of course our breeding is of intense interest to our masters.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:56 | 4680731 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

well then we should shut down all NICU's in that case, since most fetuses that can't survive are placed in NICU's until they are strong enought to survive, following your logic.

 

And again, discussing the STATE enforcing abortion or not, no where have I ever stated that.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:16 | 4680780 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Ah, apples to oranges again. Those infants are at least potentially viable. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:16 | 4680799 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

No they're not. That's why they need the NICU. 

And by that logic, any fetus is 'potentially viable', given enough time.

Not comparing apples and oranges here, I'm following your logic through. Or are you saying 1 set of rules for fetuses < 20 weeks and 6 days and another set of rules for 21 weeks +?

 

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:31 | 4680844 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Indeed, that is exactly what I do say. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 18:30 | 4681015 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

The same could be said about all Welfare recipients.....minus the "potential" part.

A KNOWN lifetime economic drain.

KILL 'EM !

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:21 | 4680004 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

appreciate you weighing in on the subject kridkrid, the anonymous downvoting is so boring.

I also happen to agree with your

Find the position that supports freedom and there is your party's position.

even though I don't vote, nor am I interested in doing so.  to be fair, some "libertarian parties" do take this stance, and did in the last electioneerings.

I am interested in provoking thought in the uni-formed minds of those who do still vote, and still hope that some will begin to wake up to the truth of controlled opposition, whether it be in the form of campaigns for votes, or in the bought 'n' paid for newsy reportage.

thanks again.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:44 | 4680105 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I was glad to see you post, haven't seen you in a while, though I'm not here as often as I used to be, so it's likely on me. I'm not sure how I feel about Ron Paul on the "controlled opposition" front. I would like to think that he isn't, but people who think he is make a good case. I also don't vote and don't care to... though in a former life I did vote for RP, back in 1988 (maybe the reason I don't want to think of him as controlled opposition). Hope you're well.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:04 | 4680173 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I took a long break from the interwebs to focus on things more important, but admit to being drawn back in of late as monitoring the "news" can be a form of research for me. . .

as to Ron Paul, I believe he has information of value to those at a certain point in their "waking up" to the reality we exist in, but at some point folks need to take off the training wheels, and learn some critical thinking skills.  on this particular topic he's provided a strong wedge to crack the stubborn nuts wide open - particularly with his offspring. . .

wtf is it with these obvious family dynasty poli-ticks?  do voters have such limited minds that they need a BRAND NAME or they don't feel safe?? Bush, Clinton, Paul??

*smiles*   

hope you're safe 'n' sound as well, take care.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:45 | 4680320 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

@CA Would like to see you join the fun over at Cog Dis' new place Two Ice Floes.

Just the other day I was trying to remember your posting moniker and couldn't quite come up with it...anyhoo good to see you back.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:04 | 4680395 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thanks Disenchanted - but if I invested any more time on the 'webs I'd never get my outdoor chores done!

and given the current readings of "the world" I think I'll keep working on the growing-stuffs.

good for CogDis finding his writing floe - wouldn't mind also seeing more from Chumba, so many good hints. . .

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:09 | 4680417 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

I just spend more of my less time online there(TIF) than I do here.

Make sense? lol!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:18 | 4680445 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

perfect sense.

I too spend more of my less time elsewhere, as some of the best critique of late is coming from the blogs IMO. 

my morning coffee-stimulated-speed-reading is grateful for the longer-sunshine days, the excuse to linger longer.

give 'em hell wherever you go!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:20 | 4681108 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If you vote, you are complicit in the crimes of the government.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:04 | 4680158 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Abortion is easy.  You either believe the fetus is a squab of inconvenience or you believe it is a human life.  Protecting human life has nothing to do with holding down a woman's rights.

Furthermore, let us just go by the key word according to the Supreme Court - viable.  Well today a fetus is viable from day one with test tubes and whatnot.  Technically, the Supreme Court could hold that all abortions are now illegal since all fetuses are now viable from conception. 

If you believe it is a human life and you support abortion you might as well support axe murdering over past due bills.  Murder is murder.  It really is a shame that the disinformation artists (like the guy above you) find such a dumbed down audience to by their crap.  Too bad he/she wasn't aborted.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:11 | 4680198 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Did that feel good? Do you feel strong, empowered and superior? Feels good to be right about everything, doesn't it?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:48 | 4680462 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Corporations are people too, dipshit.

Only when I see them swinging from a tree or lamp post. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:37 | 4680509 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

What is with the "either/or" nonsense and you deciding how people should feel?  Either/or?  RIDICULOUS mental midgetry, go run along and play with your guns.  Don't trip.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:22 | 4681114 logicalman
logicalman's picture

You have absolutely no clue what you are babbling on about.

Tue, 04/22/2014 - 11:21 | 4682671 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

I wasn't replying to Willy.  I agree with him.  I was replying to the flag-waving and cross-carrying fascist above him.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:03 | 4680168 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Why don't you go abort yourself?

Seriously, you must be a paid agent to refuse to recognize that some people see a fetus as a human being.  From those eyes, an abortion is a murder.  If you CAN accept that then you are criticizing people for objecting to murder.  How enlightened of you.  You must be one of those illiberal "liberals" who simply refuse to take responsibility for their actions. 

Like I said, please abort yourself.  I recommend a nailgun for you.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:26 | 4681119 logicalman
logicalman's picture

See previous comment.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:25 | 4680409 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

It's bills named as such "Sanctity of Life Act" that drive me batshit crazy. 

Like "Affordable Care Act", they are anything BUT. Total LIES.

Perhaps, once again it's timing.

"Pro Life" projected by the USSA representatives, while the State's behavior is "Pro War".

Delay & Abramoff forced abortions for the "Made In USA" label of Saipan.

Massive Cog Dis. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:34 | 4681147 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

Oxymoron phrases, or reverse meaning names:

Military intelligence, homeland security, criminal justice, patriot act, any agency with the word 'Bureau' in it. Here is a list of just some federal agencies (430) not including sub and derivative agencies, or congressional or other national agencies or bureau's. 

https://www.federalregister.gov/agencies

 I do not think there is even a known number of how many agencies and sub agencies really exist. Try googling how many government agencies or legal laws or regulations exist. No real answer, but ignorance of the law is no excuse. Interesting legal argument is if 'ignorance of the law is no excuse', but if all judges and lawyers are ignorant of how many laws exist, or can even be estimated to exist, how can its citizens (us) be required to be legally required to comply with unknown laws? I try not to think about it and stay close to my hampster cage.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:53 | 4679874 hobopants
hobopants's picture

DHS needs to be defunded completely, fucking gestapo.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 21:50 | 4681431 August
August's picture

Withhold consent, to the extent possible.  If you're indissoluably wed to both work and family in the Homeland, you can still minimize your investment in the system-as-it-is.

I strongly suggest emigrating to a more low key society;  they're all more or less corrupt, of course, but some are considerably more stable than Babylon itself.  Assuming you continue to file US tax returns, you can always return to the Homeland if, for whatever reason, you decide you want to.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:16 | 4680226 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"Armed Citizens and a Fascist Police State cannot coexist."

America IS the first communist country with 400 million privately owned guns.

No longer "will be", IS NOW.

So yes, fascism and gun owners CAN coexist. Long as gun owners behave ...and keep 50% of their income flowing to the govt.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:19 | 4679723 V in PA
V in PA's picture

He said "would also help reduce the federal deficit". How are politicians suppose to grease the palms of the banking elite with stolen money(taxes) to pay the interest, if they reduce the amount they owe?

 

Reduce the deficit... That's rich. Hah!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 22:16 | 4681134 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Yes, Billy Sol. 

No shit, indeed.

Thie Bundy standoff was another lost opportunity for Ron and his Quisling son to actually walk the walk. Ron has been talking the talk for a long time and I don't deny his input to the awakening of 37% of the Americans who now fear their government (no link to recent poll). However, Quisling fucked over his father in the last Presidential and Ron jumped ship when he claimed  too little money to go on. All he had to do was call and Tampa would have been swarming with true republicans. He didn't call and risk a hemorraging of the GOP, oh no. His ties to the party are too great. 

He once again has the opportunity to walk the walk and so does his smooth talking offspring who has slithered his way into the hearts of the unwary, true believers. (How does a father still talk of his son admirably after his son shafted him. Political and family ties.)

Both Ron and his worm-tongue son have an opportunity to really stand up and be counted. 

Ron, why don't you and your son organise a trip to Nevada, line up at the Bundy ranch and stand up for the Republic, which you keep talking about. Here's your chance to cement your bonifides in public and really confront the problem in a very public way. Your slimeball son can join you and prove himself as a true Patriot and not some blowhard two-faced turncoat.  You might even change my mind about him (and you for that matter).

Thanks for awakening me but you presented yourself as a leader of a movement, but left us wallowing and leaderless WHEN it mattered, at a Federal event WHERE it mattered. My suspicions are: you were the deliberate third party and your influence over the votes of many actually worked. You fragmented the conservative vote and your son was used as a ploy to drive a wedge between conservatives, with his actions giving you a legitimate exit. He backed Mittens, you've said nothing.

Shit, Ron, you played us. Now proove it othewwise and turn up at Bundy's Ranch. I know, I know,; Conspiracy nut job, right?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:08 | 4679503 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

But Ron, the authoritarian system in China seems to be doing just fine...

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:31 | 4679584 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Lol. Not really. The fun is yet to start.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:24 | 4679742 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

It's called sarcasm, go look it up dipshit.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:06 | 4679907 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

He recognized the sarcasm. That's why the Lol in his reply.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:03 | 4679929 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Chill LoP. Some are slower than others.

Many here will probably end up as allies.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:33 | 4680051 pods
pods's picture

Or at least on the same FEMA camp softball team.

pods

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:42 | 4680683 Darth Stacker
Darth Stacker's picture

Who among us isn't looking forward to MRE's and outdoor showers at the FEMA deathcamps? I hear Wednesday is salisbury steak night!

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:47 | 4679626 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Guess you missed this tidbit in today's news... 

http://revolution-news.com/china-violent-government-thugs-beaten-death-a...

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:23 | 4679736 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Thanks for posting that item....what happens everywhere when average folks have had enough government.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 21:45 | 4681420 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Except in America.

Americans just bitch on blogs.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:26 | 4679748 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Speaking of "low-information" trolls...

 

It's called sarcasm, go look it up dipshit.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:08 | 4679951 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Very encouraging. I hope they killed the right people. Crowds-mobs can get indiscriminate.

I believe in the future you will see something similar to this in America. The Bundy story is evidence. I do not think Americans are quite as indiscriminant but I really do think Americans, productive Americans who do not feed off the government system...are up to their eyeballs in government and over their tolerance level. It just takes an event.

I also wish the Chinese well. I think they have the ability to create a relatively free and prosperous society unlike, say Afghanistan or Zimbabwe. Their country is deeply infected with Statism and the corruption that accompanies it.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:14 | 4679974 BandGap
BandGap's picture

That is some serious shit. You bruise when the heart is still pumping. Rough way to go.

Think of this scene is there was 2nd Amendment rights in China.

So, where will he first exhange of gunfire take place in the US?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 17:48 | 4680898 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

China: “Violent Government Thugs” Beaten To Death By Angry Crowds After They Killed A Man Documenting Their Brutality

At least 4 Chengguan, the most hated police-inspectors in China, were beaten to death by angry people in Cangnan County of Wenzhou More.. City, Zhejiang Province (located in the industrial southeast More..), after they killed a man with a hammer. The police-inspectors hit the man with a hammer until he started to vomit blood, because he was trying to take pictures of their violence towards a woman, a street vendor. The man was rushed to hospital, but died on the way.

Thousands of angry people took to the streets, surrounded the police-inspectors in their van, attacked them with stones, bats, and beat them to death. People were shouting that the police-inspectors be killed on the spot for what they did: “Kill them! Kill them!”

These police-inspectors are notoriously violent, are rarely investigated or punished for their crimes, and are terrorizing people making a living. The Chengguan, which are a special combination between regular police and state inspectors, are called “violent government thugs” in China, thousands of them are on the state payroll in at least 656 cities. In July 2013, they beat to death a man and almost killed his wife, for trying to sell watermelon they had grown on their land. The crime of the Chengguan police sparked riots in the province of Guizhou.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef9_1397937017#m1qCVqwLIiAVYeHZ.99

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:37 | 4679798 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

This is one more reason why the federal government should rid itself of all federal land holdings. Selling federal lands would also help reduce the federal deficit.

 

speaking of China, I'm guessing Dr. Paul is right on board with the sale of amrka to "our" Asian brothers. . .

 

The Chinese Are Acquiring Large Chunks Of Land In Communities All Over America
Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:13 | 4679950 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Cathartes - This is part of Ping-Pong trade with China. I actually have no problem with companies taking there cash earned from the American people through years of inbalanced trade and investing it back here. Actually, that trade should have begun balancing around 2005, then there would have been time for workers to get more jobs and use less debt, Greenspan may not have needed to pump such a housing bubble to delay the necessary correction.

Printing of all that money here and there caused inflation to rise far faster than wages. China - and now the US creating laws to raise fees to force people off the land is tyranny and such is horrible for the majority of investors and the populations of both countries. As said, pay for the real estate and businessmen and I have no qualms. American production with automation and creativity is far higher here. Workers make $12 an hour but don't get bennies. Those wages will have to rise or Americans will be unable to afford the products resulting from increasing investment from abroad in America.

Political insiders that sold America for a song and bankers both here and China were making huge sums off the imbalance and at least I know in America the Clinton Admin put a ton of cops on the beat in ADVANCE of the financial fraud conducted by deregulating finance. This is an interconnected story with China. The governments of both nations know they overshot badly. Growth has now ceased globally and the wealth concentrated to the few. It will only recover with anti-trust and encouraging competition from innovators. I dont see much of that happening, politicians are giving that lip service.

The outcome of restoring balancing is not going to be painless, it will be bloody. Lots of bad things happen during transitions of reserve currency status which as some read on the IMF article, China is the defacto new reserve currency. Some of the power Dons at the top begin betraying one another during these cycles of transition. Many don't get the memo and tensions rise in the population and government positions. Chances for world war are high. I wouldn't put it past governments to use EMP false-flags to make it all go dark in some countries to reinforce control and have the population begging for meals, completely subjegating them if it completely spins out of control into revolution or civil war. The good news is I believe half of the bad years have passed, 6 of them. Another 8 to go in my opinion and lets pray they do not get worse but I am preparing for it and hoping for the best.  

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:23 | 4680009 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Agree with most of your post except the transition will take much longer. The focus should not be just on China & the US, there are desparate parties everywhere. But I bellieve this struggle will last another 12 or so years.

My bet is that China will not own the reserve currency when the dust settles. They offer poor stability and shoddier world leadership. And I do not think they have the muscle to lead, they do not project world power.  If a war tears them up, they will not recover quickly. 

I'm thinking in terms of resources..............North America still has them, and they means to convert them.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:39 | 4680087 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Bandgap - I agree with your analysis. Perhaps it will take 12 years instead of eight, I just see the rate of business or just call them events as happening quicker these days.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:52 | 4680134 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thank you for a considered reply.  I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, and would only add that I've been following this subject for years now - as China has been seeking to set up "special economic zone" factory towns in many impoverished states such as Idaho and Ohio since the mid-2000's.

that they didn't is somewhat surprising to me, but perhaps, like many newsy stories, the idea was just "floated" to see if there was any resistance.  given the sale of industry and food production to other nationstates - Smithfields being a perfect example, while "others" were considering bids - and it's no secret that food is a global business.

nationstates are fictions, and corporations trade amongst themselves, the world is already "global" - why not just acknowledge this truth and cease with all the "sovereign state" flag waving.

it's so last century. . .

((but of course, wars are profitable, so there will be blood))

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 20:58 | 4681328 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

If there are profitable wars, will they be between corporations, corporations and nation states, or just between nation states?

I'm pretty sure the President can declare Eric Schmidt a terrorist and have him NDAA'd.  No doubt that Eric Schmidt cannot do the same in turn.  Nation states aren't going away soon.  They may grow and break apart and even become corporatist (fascist) but there will be nation states for a long time.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:10 | 4679958 viahj
viahj's picture

Dr Paul missed on this one, the fed lands should revert back to the States.  the fed has no right to "sell" the public's land.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 14:53 | 4680366 Drachma
Drachma's picture

As for Ron Paul: You don't stay a lifer in politics unless you are one who knows how to compromise (to the extreme) and to 'throw' an occassional fight. It boggles my mind that people can not bring themselves to understand that no matter what truths issue from Ron Pauls mouth, he will always deliver dissappointment. The enemy owns both sides. Let's all get that through our head and move on. We must all be our own champions. Stop the idolatry and hero-worship. Those who know the truth and are in a position to act on it do not need to hear flashy soundbits peppered with emotional triggers like 'democracy', 'republic' and the 'constitution' from a thoroughly entrenched politician to know what needs to be done and to inform others. RP will continue to do what all men in his role have always done throughout the ages...that is to 'rescue' the ones who are catching on to the fraud from the boiling pot and quench their ego in a cool bath before dropping them into the frying pan. Bon apetite ma son.

  "There's nothing to frear from Globalism, Free-trade or a single worldwide currency."- Ron Paul 3/2001 in the House of Representatives
Mon, 04/21/2014 - 20:52 | 4681316 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

I call bullshit.  I doubt Ron Paul said that.  Give me a reference, please.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 22:36 | 4681506 Drachma
Drachma's picture

CSPAN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dH3_Lcfeac

The truth is a bitter pill my friend. I know how you feel. Your enemy is smarter than you think. Nothing happens without a plan.

Here's some insight into RP's role from one of the high-priests;

"It is just because we are really attacking the principle of local (national) sovereignty that we keep on protesting our loyalty to it so loudly. The harder we press our attack upon the idol (national sovereignty), the more pains we take to keep its priests and devotees in a fool's paradise, lapped in a false sense of security which will inhibit them from taking up arms in their idol's defence...We are at present working discreetly but with all our might, to wrest this mysterious political force called soveregnty out of the clutches of the local national states of our world. And all the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands."

-- Professor Arnold Toynbee (Oxford) Director of Studies for the Royal Institute of International Affairs - Master Rhodes Scholar and social engineer extraordinaire (June 1931 in Copenhagen)

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:10 | 4679510 ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

I like everything Ron Paul stands for, but he is a complete dissapointment in getting any of it accomplished.  just my opinion.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:14 | 4679521 Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

If the system is to change it will change from without - not from within.  He is but the bearer of information to make us THINK, you/we are the required actors.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:29 | 4679573 power steering
power steering's picture

Good thing this wacko has no offspring

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:36 | 4679598 chunga
chunga's picture

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:48 | 4679630 Keyser
Keyser's picture

ZH has been infiltrated by low-information trolls. Just ignore them as in real life.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:25 | 4679745 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Yes....I have been here and donated $$ at the beginning and have to say the intelligence has been in steep decline...

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:37 | 4679599 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

Fodder for the Soylent factory.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:38 | 4679603 Badabing
Badabing's picture

good cop bad cop?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:57 | 4679659 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Who, Harry Reid?  Unfortuntely he has a son.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 13:53 | 4680141 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

he has a son...

 

And if this is how Harry has his buddy at the BLM take of this senator's fortunate one, it makes me wonder how he would react if someone were to actually try to tread on his Obamacare. 

 

Don't mess with these political people's kids!

 

By the way, do you suppose Harry got lined up with these folks in China from Mr. Diane Feinstein's rolodex?  Senators are such a special breed.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:05 | 4679688 Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

power steering - meh.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:07 | 4679693 chunga
chunga's picture

Must be a GM product

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:16 | 4679531 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Ever try to walk forward against a paniced crowd?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:49 | 4679634 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> a paniced crowd?

I would freak the fuck out if I ever saw a paniced crowd.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:18 | 4679536 blabam
blabam's picture

Do you think one man can change the direction of a global empire?  

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:29 | 4679575 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Ask Benjamin Franklin who sweet talked the king of france into letting us borrow his fleet for a while, and a little pocket change from the crown.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:48 | 4679631 blabam
blabam's picture

Because after that the UK stopped being a global empire? 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:50 | 4679639 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Better question, is the UK still a global empire? No is the answer. Change does not come overnight. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:07 | 4679694 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Are you sure? What if most, or even all Presidents of the Former Untied States of Amerika, are related to the Tudor Family?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:29 | 4679766 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

To be fair all humans are related.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:28 | 4681131 logicalman
logicalman's picture

To be fair, all humans are related to amoebae.

What's your point?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:37 | 4679799 V in PA
V in PA's picture

America lost the War of 1812 and has been a puppet of the British Empire ever since. America is the military muscle and the manufacturing powerhouse of the British Empire. The last two countries to conquer are China and Russia.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 20:44 | 4681297 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

I dunno, Andy Jackson stopped some crack Lobsterbacks in New Orleans, became President and kicked the Second Bank of the United States out of business, ending that central bank criminality (more Rothschilds holding stock!!!) until the creature from Jeckyl Island was spawned.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:33 | 4681145 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Take a look at 'The Square Mile'

The tentacles are still wrapped around a lot of stuff.

Countries' governments are nothing to do with people, they are to do with banking and money.

Countries are for the distraction of the common folk - The rich don't care about countries, other than playing one off against another to increase their personal wealth.

Get with the program!

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:49 | 4679635 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Barry has done a helluva job of de-railing the US over the last 5 years. So yes, one man can change the direction of a global empire. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:39 | 4679802 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

only if you truly believe that the prezzydent has the actual power to make those changes. . .

as opposed to being the face of those who truly make the decisions, and have the real power.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:59 | 4679662 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Sure.  Every fire starts with a spark.

The direction of a global empire certainly won't change if there are zero men working against it.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:20 | 4679545 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

how do you figure that? he is only one person. His goal, which he has accomplished, is to educate people like you and I. Awakening the masses is THE most important thing he is doing. He has done more since leaving office IMO. Awakening millions of people, especially young people, to what is being done to them by the fed and govt is quiet an acomplishment. Before RP, most people had no idea what the fed was, and now more and more people are aware and awake and pissed off. While ending the fed isnt something a majority of the country is on board with yet, it wasnt even part of the conversation before he spoke about it. You are wrong, he has accomplished much. Being the single 'no' vote against unconstitutional bills is an accomplishment to be proud of as well

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:27 | 4679752 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

He is one person up against all the special interest groups who are in firm control of the Federal Gubbermint.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 20:31 | 4681270 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

In all honesty, if it wasn't for Ron Paul I would never have found Zerohedge. All of the credit goes to RP and ZH for awakening me to the evils of central banking and crony capitalism. 

What I choose to do with this knowledge is now up to me. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:28 | 4679553 Ribeye
Ribeye's picture

Ron has done more for the cause of liberty than any other living person, he has lit fires accross the world 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:28 | 4679571 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Unless Ron Paul had his own armed followers nothing will be done.

It takes a massive force to changes things now,

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:40 | 4679609 ATM
ATM's picture

Perhaps he does.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:51 | 4679641 Keyser
Keyser's picture

It's called Texas and last I heard you don't fuck with those folks.... 

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:40 | 4679811 Blano
Blano's picture

Unfortunately there's plenty of dumbfucks even down here.  Abortion Barbie will still get at least 40% of the vote this fall.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:42 | 4679829 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

unless yer guvner Perry, hmm. . .

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:00 | 4679670 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

How does one recruit without first educating?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:57 | 4679656 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There are no solutions to be found in government. Government is the problem. PERIOD!

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:24 | 4679739 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

There is nothing wrong with legal government.  Ours was supposed to be composed of devolved decentralized power to the states, localities and citizens and a limited national machine, not the opposite we have now.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:41 | 4679814 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

There can not be legal government without having an exclusion principle that allows people to opt out of the system. Otherwise all of the people are slaves to the system. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 19:36 | 4681154 logicalman
logicalman's picture

There's a difference between legal and lawful.

We need lawful government, if any at all.

 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:59 | 4679664 ratpack1968
ratpack1968's picture

Well, considering that he and those who agree with him (me included) are vastly outnumbered by the moronic or psychopathic, I think getting the word out is better than not. 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 16:16 | 4680615 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I like everything Ron Paul stands for, but he is a complete dissapointment in getting any of it accomplished. just my opinion.

 

He has been for YEARS the only VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS speaking up, as a Representative, NO WAY in hades ONE man does anything!.Don't begrudge him that, at least HE TRIED.Just got wind that the DHS/IRS wants a LISTING of his supporters and anyone that has made donations to him over the years.THIS will turn out well.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 21:48 | 4681426 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Sounds just like so-called "patriots". Saying all the right stuff but accomplishing nothing at all.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:10 | 4679513 newsguy68
newsguy68's picture
Oklahoma To Charge “Privilege Tax” For Going Off Grid

 

http://commoditiefutures.com/oklahoma-to-charge-privilege-tax-for-going-...

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:40 | 4679608 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

A sort of anti-carbon tax tax?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:59 | 4679668 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

"Oklahoma To Charge “Privilege Tax” For Going Off Grid"

I hope people will "vote with their feet". 

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 15:44 | 4680524 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Wonder why they did not use the term "Net Metering"?

The OCC is bought & paid for like any other gubmint entity. 

Big fuss going on about smart meters that must have a lot of spice flowing into them politicks pockets. Funny, Whale-Mart seems to be exempt from having a smart meter shoved up their A$$. Wonder why?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:10 | 4679514 spine001
spine001's picture

Sad, idealism will always be confronted by humanity's limitations.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:30 | 4679579 -.-
-.-'s picture

"Ron has dine more for tge cause of liberty than any other living person, he has lit fires accross the world..."

IDEALISM (not accounting for limitations [nor grammar])

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:11 | 4679517 hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture

violence...will always be the tool that statist fuck wads use no matter what "ism" you happen to prescribe to.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:27 | 4679569 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Governments of all types like trying to enforce a monopoly on violence

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:14 | 4679522 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

There are no real democracies left anywhere. The growth of the state and the growth of big corporations has squeezed out the middle class, the entrepreneur and the budding politician who doesn't have millions to run a campaign.

Big corporations have just about wiped out the middle class in securing a greater share of the market and once this is complete one wonders whether the corporations will in earnest turn on each other in search of more growth and power.

Eventually, the big corporations will be able to win seats in government and possibly even form government.

If you think this is laughable you only have to look at the court decisions which are giving corporations the standing of individuals.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:44 | 4679619 ATM
ATM's picture

“It had been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience had proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.” 
Alexander Hamilton June 21, 1788

 

“The adoption of Democracy as a form of Government by all European nations is fatal to good Government, to liberty, to law and order, to respect for authority, and to religion, and must eventually produce a state of chaos from which a new world tyranny will arise.” 
Duke of Northumberland 1931

Thank God the USA isn't a Democracy! Or is it?

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:04 | 4679682 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

"Eventually, the big corporations will be able to win seats in government and possibly even form government."

Eventually ?!! They've been choosing the candidates for federal and state offices forever. Wake up. Home voting district politicians who choose the candidates for office are those whose jobs depend on "special interests".

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:29 | 4679764 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

"Rollerball", 1975 -- ahead of its time

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:16 | 4679529 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

If I ever have to drive through Nevada I'm going to stop every 10 miles and piss on the side of the road just so I can take satisfaction in knowing it's part of .Gov I'm whizzing on.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 11:52 | 4679645 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> I'm going to stop every 10 miles and piss on the side of the road

Hell, I do that now, where ever I am, but then I've probably got a few years on you.

Mon, 04/21/2014 - 12:19 | 4679720 The_Ungrateful_Yid
The_Ungrateful_Yid's picture

I still piss in my own backyard in the corner.I love the freedom its pretty much what I got left.

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