Chinese Police Forces To Carry Guns For First Time In Over 60 Years

Tyler Durden's picture

Following the Kunming massacre disaster (knife attacks on March 1 at a train station in China's southwestern city of Kunming left 33 people dead and 130 injured) and the recent violent civilian unrest against the Chengguan, The Wall Street Journal reports that over the weekend, more than 1,000 street-patrol officers began carrying 9mm revolvers, Shanghai's Public Security Bureau said. Several other cities across China were set to begin similar programs. Officials said officers are getting training in the largest cities in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hunan, Sichuan and Yunnan, where Kunming is the capital. This comes over 60 years since Mao Zedong - who famously said "political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" - stripped weapons from many police officers shortly after he rose to power in 1949.

 

As The Wall Street Journal reports, over the weekend, more than 1,000 street-patrol officers began carrying 9mm revolvers, Shanghai's Public Security Bureau said.

Shanghai officers, according to the city police bureau, will increasingly be equipped "to respond to all violence and terror" with a revolver using real and rubber bullets.

 

It said officers are getting training in the largest cities in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hunan, Sichuan and Yunnan, where Kunming is the capital.

 

...

 

"They would be able to react more quickly to emergencies if they carry guns on duty," said criminal lawyer Zhang Ping of Beijing Yuandu Law Firm. He said Chinese law-enforcement officers have long had access to guns but usually leave their weapons at station houses.

 

"I don't know if this is a positive or negative development for Chinese police,"

The move marks one of the biggest policy turns in law-enforcement strategy in decades...

Mao Zedong —who famously said "political power grows out of the barrel of a gun"—stripped weapons from many police officers shortly after he rose to power in 1949.

 

As civilian gun controls tightened significantly through the 1960s, some basic law-enforcement duty shifted to neighborhood committees run by the Communist Party.

 

Under Shanghai's new gun policy, police weapons will be numerically controlled and armed officers are required to write a report each time they so much as pull the weapon from its locked holster.

 

The police statement said selected officers received at least 24 hours of classroom training and 100 practice shots to start, and played down risks that a weapon could go off accidentally or get stolen.

In the past year, 449 police officers died in the line of duty, up 4.4% from 2012, the Ministry of Public Security said.

While the agency's statistics don't make clear whether violence caused those deaths, police in China died on the job at a rate marginally higher than their U.S. counterparts

We leave it to Beijing's police official to conclude...

"Violent crime and the extreme behavior of some individuals have become real threats to public security and people's safety...

 

From now on, Shanghai police can open fire to stop violent crime if faced with situations like the Kunming attack."

One has to ask, why now? What are officials so afraid of?

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Future Jim's picture

I hope they will finally allow the Chinese serfs to own guns.

Also, revolvers don't come in 9mm.

Slave's picture

9mm is gonna suck out of those tiny little revolvers they are gonna have. They probably won't even have 6 shots....or hollowpoints. Good luck piggies.

THX 1178's picture

Yeah, the USA has been militarizing their police too. This seems like a trend somehow....

dryam's picture

When the population on this planet has grown in an artificial way because of cheap energy what happens when cheap peak energy has been hit?  The population decreases as rapidly as it increased (actually faster because of the over-shoot phenomena).  

Oil gives cheap food, the ability to process that food, and distribute it to all corners of the earth while people sit on their ass & watch American Idol.  Oil also gives all sorts of other goods and products that provide the framework for our complex society & population.  One barrel of oil equals 23,000 man hours of work.  That equates to something like 8 years of work by a single man working 10-12 hour days getting holdidays & weekends off.  Take a look at world population growth curves and overlay that graph with the harnessing of fossil fuels.  Always look at the global chessboard in the context of countries manuvering for the most valuable resource on earth.  If you do that, the daily news will make a lot more sense.

Once peak cheap oil is hit, everything slows & resources become more scarce.  As resources become more scarce crazy shit happens.  Humans are driven by 4 fundamental things:  feeding, fucking, fighting, & fleeing.  When feeding & fucking become scarce it's a given fighting will occur, between countries own citizens & between countries themselves.  There will be more & more upheaval worldwide.

 

Btw, the ongoing financial/monetary global train wreck is as much related to peak cheap oil than anything else.  The concept of "money" and "financial assets" are diverging from real world resources, and will continue to do so.  Governments are doing their darndest to come up with financial solutions to real world resource limitations.  Their treatment has nothing to do with the real disease & everyone wonders why the patient continues to get sicker.

SafelyGraze's picture

"Mao Zedong - who famously said "political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" - stripped weapons from many police officers shortly after he rose to power in 1949."

because he feared that the police would rise up against the state?

old naughty's picture

are you saying he is turning in his "housing" now?

james.connolly's picture

Mao clearly understood real world politics.

He understood that 'modern policing' post 1890's was 100% a tool of the capitalist's.

He saw "POLICE" as enemy's of the people, and protectors of the Oligarch's.

So, yes he made sure the police were un-armed and not capable of inflicting harm, that said he always had his secret plain clothes police that were armed to the teeth, not unlike our BATF, FBI, FEMA, DHA,.. Secret Service.

>>

I really don't advise wasting time studying the CHINESE street cop's, why not the TYLERS talk about the MSS ( chinese CIA ), now there would be some interesting shit.

>>

To the communists even in the time of MARX & ENGLES the "POLICE", were just a tool of the BOURGEOIS, a means where the little people could be controlled.

Long ago, say +150 years ago AMERICA the SHERIFF ruled, he came of the people, and the people controlled him, the modern POLICE, have always been under PTB control since day one (1890's). All cop's know this, and they know that the PTB is their master and little people only are for FUCKING.

Lore's picture

Nice bit of regurgitation, but let's also remember that the "Limits To Growth" Agenda 21 model for world affairs is as simplistic and dishonest as it is self-serving. Most of the world still has yet to benefit from cheap energy, thanks mainly to suppression by different iterations of the bankster pathocracy. One's appreciation for cohesion within and among ascendant developing cultures grows when one realizes how many of those people have not sat behind the wheel of a car, shopped at a big box retailer or even sat on a decent toilet. Such cultures -- solvent, with hard-backed currencies -- will benefit from forward-looking policy in such areas as infrastructure, domestic manufacturing and alternative transport, much to the detriment of gasoline- and debt-enslaved cultures like ours. (Wealthy Chinese buy cars, but the most popular vehicle by far is the economical electric scooter. There's a reason why the Chinese ration their rare earth metals. They need 'em! )

The shape of the depletion curve for Peak Oil is as much a matter of circumstantial regional drilling restrictions as it is of natural geological endowment. In other words, look at a world map and you find vast areas remain untapped. He who controls the spigot controls the currency. That is a major driving concern behind the scumminess witnessed recently in the Middle East and Eastern Europe. We have exploited our resources and expect others to use our banks to exploit theirs. It's stupid!  In their supreme arrogance, our banksters attempt to hijack the resource collateral of the entire globe, not recognizing their own decrepitude and obsolescence.

Frankie Carbone's picture

You're not understanding exponential growth, particularly that related to human population growth - which is exponential - and per/person energy consumption, also exponential (due to increases in technology, particularly quantity of technology, and access to technology as one becomes more prosperous). 

Assume Fenway Park is waterproofed and start with dropping one drop of water on the pitcher's mound. Then double it every minute. If the park overflows with water at 12-midnight, at what time was there only a foot of water on the field?

11:53 pm. 7 minutes to midnight. 

No, there are NOT plenty of resources left. Otherwise we would not be resorting to fracking or drilling several miles into the Gulf, where a hundred years ago you merely stuck a pipe in the ground. 

We're scraping the bottom of the barrel, and lifting restrictions on scraping more of the bottom of the barrrel is not going to solve anything. 

Worse, the harder it is to recover energy (energy invested), the lower the yield (energy returned). This is called ERoEI (Energy Returned on Energy Invested) and that ratio has also been plummeting exponentially.

There is no magical solution. It does not exist.  

Groin's picture

You are being too polite, he is completely full of shit. The rate of growth in the worlds population is declining and has been for 50 years. That is the paramount leading indicator.

Lore's picture

Population is rising and falling in different parts of the world. What are the reasons given, and what are the real reasons? Stop parroting and start digging. Don't take your truth from mockumentaries and self-serving institutions. A salesman never pans his snake oil.  Good luck to you.

Lore's picture

I'm well aware of EROEI, and the way you talk is entirely valid within a limited frame of reference. I used to talk exactly as you do. I still have a pile of Club of Rome propaganda in my library. Everyone needs to travel a bit and gain some real world experience in order to see just how big the world is and how much potential remains, and how controlled and fogged western public perception is become, most dramatically in North America and England.

Reconsider your bias. The excessive simplicity of your analogy illustrates my point beautifully. All else being equal, your puddle might grow at the suggested rate, but all else is NOT equal: water evaporates, flow fluctuates, ground is porous, pipes leak, countless other variables come into play.  That's why "Limits to Growth" was so dumb, and why the IPCC keeps falling down, treating the world like some controlled cartoon environment where all the variables are known and conditions are controlled. Real science doesn't defend lies. It debunks them!

Where do you think BP would drill if it had unlimited discretion? It wouldn't be the Gulf. Think outside the institution. Good luck to you.

Debt-Penitent's picture

One barrel of oil equals 23,000 man hours of work.  That equates to something like 8 years of work by a single man working 10-12 hour days getting holdidays & weekends off.

 

What?  Are you on something? 

 

A barrel of oil even at $100 is worth five ounces of silver and even at Roman wages of a tenth of an ounce a day, that's 50 days, seven weeks of hard labor.  Where do you get such rediculous numbers of 23,000?  References?

fallout11's picture

That is the amount of energy (i.e. capability to do work), in kJoules, in a barrel of oil.  Horsepower to horsepower, if you will.

 

BandGap's picture

.357 Taurus seven shot, 158 grain hollow points. It's a beautiful thing.

9mm is a nice round but they need semi-autos for that, it's a roundcut down in size so you have more space.  They put the 9mm in revolvers to cut the recoil (according to Charter Arms, the latest entry into this category). When I use .38 mmo in the.357, the recoil ain't shit. Blam!

Frankie Carbone's picture

My brother got a Taurus .357 for xmas two years ago. It rusted in 2 months, and yes, he takes care of his firearms. 

Taurus. The Yugo of firearms. 

Go get a Ruger GP100. You can drive a tank over it. 

HardAssets's picture

Lets see now. Youre a thug who likes to beat up and sometimes kill people. Now you have a nice lil' ole' 9mm wheel gun with six shots.

I'd put my money on the hundreds of pissed off people with clubs and bricks surrounding those thugs on all sides.

While the thug is waving his 9mm at people, he's very likely to catch a brick tossed to the back of his head from someone. Once that happens, its all over for Mr. Thug.

Maybe it would be better to find another line of work.

detached.amusement's picture

curious how that's going to work out when the people have to bribe the police to even do their job in the first place.  (and everyone knows it, on top of that...)

james.connolly's picture

My favorite carry weapon is a 9mm snub-nose, hammer-less revolver,
I can carry it and shoot it from my pocket or jacket pocket and no hammer to catch on clothing, it hold 5 rounds with a clip for fast reload.
A revolver doesn't dump cartridges all over the
ground for the bad guys to trace back to you,
I can get the 9mm in anything from exploding, to
expanding piano wire, to exploding-shock, I can also get sub-sonic 9mm so I can easily go silent anytime I wish.

seek's picture

Not just the pitbull. SP101 was in 9mm for a while, Taurus 905, Smith & W 929. Lots of people have played with the idea since it's basically a .38 taking more common ammo.

One of these has been on my to-buy list forever, and this just reminded me. You can never have too many, you know.

Colonel Klink's picture

Ruger SP101 is still 9mm capable.  Only thing necessary is the half moon clips to hold the rounds.  Will work in any .38 special/.357.

 

I hope the Chinese police are a better aim than the expert marksmen of the NYPD.

seek's picture

Do you have a reference for that and/or anyone that's done it reliably? That'd make me buy a 101 tomorrow if true and reliable.

I've been looking at used 9mm 101s but those things are up to $900 now!

Tulpa's picture

Uh, no.  Do not ever fire ammunition that is of a caliber not listed on the side of the barrel, even if it looks like it fits in the chamber.

There are some "convertible" Ruger revolvers that are designed to handle 9mm and 38/357 but they will explicitly have that fact engraved on the side of the firearm.

james.connolly's picture

Yep, that's the one I love the SW 929, I used to first think it was a 'lady's gun', cuz it can be shot from a handbag, and not having the hammer means you never get caught on anything, especially important is not having a hammer means you can shoot from inside your hand-bag,

 

90% of getting away from murder it not having the victim see the weapon until he's dead, same with knife fighting a serious fighter/killer always knows to make sure his victim is DEAD before he knows your armed. By that I mean you don't SEE my knife, until you first see your own blood, you don't know you I have  shot you until after you have been shot, this way there is no way they can fight back. It's the secret to winning all battles, study art-of-war, "First they see Red",... makes sure the first thing the victim ever see's is his own blood, even before he see's you.

>>>

WRT to the dumb shit here about stopping power, sure I love the 45ACP, but its generally too big, and it gets caught on shit, real killer's like to carry the little 22, they're reliable hold 10 shot clips and you simply "T" your victim meaning you place round in each eye, and the nose, and few in his sternum, 4-6 shots and their dead, and no body and nothing can bring them back.

Stopping power is for a guy that's rushing you, and is on full steam, like the MORO warriors  and marines carrying 45acp to stop them, but for survival type SHTF shooting you got to be think about 'getting away with murder', which means you got to think like a professional killer and carry a small gun, that can be disposable, and is common.

If the STHF you can't just think about a one time battle, but you got to be thinking about winning all battles and making it all the way to the end game and never getting caught.

Terminus C's picture

There is no "end of the game".  But being smart about your weapons is good advice.

james.connolly's picture

The end game in all MARTIAL ARTS is to live a "LONG AND HEALTHY LIFE",

Any time you can walk away from a battle, then your a winner, if you can make it to old age and still have a good life, then you win.

To fight a 100 battles and never lose one, requires critical think, to know yourself, to know the enemy.

Like I said, when you engage the ENEMY, you kill HIM, before he even becomes aware of you. This is the secret of walking away from 100 battles.

Frankie Carbone's picture

I carry an SP101 357 with Federal reduced recoil 125 gr hollowpoints. LOVE that pistol. 

james.connolly's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDEUilv7SUk

Bobbed Hammer? Right? 357, but hell somebody probably makes a bobbed-hammer 45MAG right? :)

Great gun, .. perfect for a little women to carry in her purse. Don't even have to remove the gun from the purse just, just go into weaver-position, with the gun in the purse, shoot, and then drop the purse to the side and keep walking.

>>>

I remember years ago, maybe 20+ my ex-wife wanted to 'shoot' one day, and I brought the 9mm bobbed-hammer '929', which like I said, "Lady's Gun", ... I said ok dear shoot, she's a hard core liberal, but in her mind any idiot could shoot a gun, and I guess that day she wanted to 'shoot', maybe to prove something to herself, I don't know.

So I handed her the gun, explained how to do it [ how to stand, hold a gun, and pull the trigger on a revolver, even drew a little picture of how sight alignment work's ] and she knocked off a round, no evidence on the stump I directed her to shoot again, she knocked off a few more and she said "This gun is no good", ... I said nothing wrong with the gun, asked her for it back, reloaded and nailed 3 rounds all near the same hole in a chosen location, then I handed the gun back to her, and again, she couldn't even hit the stump, and it a big stump several feet wide, ... and she was back about 10 feet. Then she told me "Shooting isn't so easy, as I thought it would be be?", then I said, it takes a lot of training, and then you have put yourself in "STRESS", and then really learn what you got.

She quit, ... to bad I think she could have got it, but she is one of those kind of women that would kill a man in a nano-second if he tried to rape her, so its probably good she didn't take up carrying firearms.

>>>

Shooting isn't easy, ... but then you read every day about a cop dumping his 17 round magazine, and only 3 shots hitting the victim, ... no shooting isn't easy, and toss in stress and most can't even hit the side of a barn.

taniquetil's picture

Sure they can.

 

In America, we have the .38 police special, as well as the .357 magnum, which are both pretty close in diameter to 9mm.

If the Chinese decide to borrow from the Russians, they could always use a clone of the MP412 REX, which accomodates both .357 magnum and .38 special.

 

B_V's picture

Future Jim!  It's ignorant statements like "Also, revolvers don't come in 9mm." that make me question what I read on this interweb.

Tulpa's picture

He was mostly right.  There are very few 9mm revolvers in the world because the round makes no sense in a revolver.  The cartridge doesn't have a rim so you need to use moon clips.  They're collectors' toys.

james.connolly's picture

Look at it this way, ... its about AMMO, what kind of AMMO do you have?

I prefer 45acp, and 308win, ... but then 30-06 is black-tip is required to take out a V8 engine block [ M1-Garand ], ... then again a 9mm is very common in most AUTO hand-guns, ...

For me I want a hammer-less, revolver the kind you can stick up a mans ass and discharge the round the hammer doesn't get caught on clothing, and round up the ass muffles the sound,and also is impossible to FIX, so a terrible death is most certain.

Sure its most fun to own the BIG revolver say the 44MAG, but where in the fuck do you carry that bitch? The little 9mm hammer-less can be kept anywhere, but the coat pocket is best,

I think its important to limit types of ammo, given a stock of essential 223, 45, 9mm, and 308win,... 00-buck and slug, it would crazy to have any other kind of ammo just because of some silly revolver.

 

Sure my favorite handgun is the 45acp colt government & officer model, but fuck, its big, and its basically a 'statement gun' and not a killer's gun.

>>>

Let's do the essential ammo for range,

45acp/9mm close range less than 10 feet

12 gauge 00-buck/slug 10-50 feet - shotgun 570 mossberg pump universal clearing tool, a MOSS with 5 00-bucks in the chamber and 5 on the stock, can deliver 100 9mm rounds in a few seconds, better than any machine gun

223 m16 50-200

308 win sniper 200 - 1500 meters, any good bolt gun, think OSWALD

out past 1500 meters you might want 50 caliber barret, that can take you to 1-2 miles

 

>>>

 

but the 9mm revolver isn't a toy, in certain missions you don't want cartridges falling on the ground, and you don't want an unreliable 'auto' as ALL auto's can be unreliable, also a recoil handgun can't be shot from inside a bag/coat or pants, well not with any reliability,

 

Remember its all about 'getting away', so reliability must be 100%, having funny ammo like 38, or 357, ...that only works in one type of gun is crazy, ... better to have just a few kinds of ammo that work in all guns.

 

Frankie Carbone's picture

Corbon 115 gr +P rounds are devasting and make "the 9" a serious contender. 45 ACP also a fine round, particularly in cold weather (where heavy clothing causes HP's to fail to expand) where simple ball ammo from a 45 will penetrate thick winter coats. 

Placement counts first, that is true. But I am not going to pretend that I am immune from an adrenalin dump or fight or flight effects. That's why a "9" with a 20 round mag is a nice option when loaded with the Corbons. 

Not talking about spray-and-pray, but the first couple of shots are likely going to be ineffective when assaulted. In the few seconds where (hopefully I recover my cool in time) the attack on you happens, some ammo is likely to be wasted. Nice to know that I have 15-17 rounds left to make it count. Particularly with multiple assailants. 

zjxn06's picture

Barney Fife would be proud!

ALPO's picture

> Also, revolvers don't come in 9mm.

It isn't 9mm Luger (aka 9mm Parabellum), but a new cartridge designed specifically for this revolver. The bullet diameter is nominally 9.0 mm so calling it a 9mm cartridge is accurate. I'm not sure what the official Chinese designation for this round is. It is similar in dimensions to the old .38 S&W (not .38 S&W Special) except the case is approximately 2.75 mm shorter.

 

 

 

NoDecaf's picture

no more kung-fu fighting?

Agent P's picture

9mm is fast as lightning!

also, an anagram of "kung fu fighting" is "fuking gun fight"

 

Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

The are afraid of Muslim monkeys going bersker and massacre those actual Chinese.

Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Still not enough bullets to save their asses from an angry mob of 1000+ people.

user2011's picture

That will trigger more attacks.  Chinese civilians are not allowed to own guns.  To get one, attack one of the police.  And that will kill two birds in one stones.  Revenge for the police brutality and get powerful weapons..

 

james.connolly's picture

That's funny, here's the deal; NOBODY needs a fucking GUN to play the RETRIBUTION GAME.

battery acid is sold everywhere, throw  in cop's face, and he's fucked for life, happens everyday here in ASIA, ACID is so common here that its the preferrable way to end a relationship where the girl refuses to marry a boy, ... If I can't marry her, then nobody else will, ... I'll scar her for life ...

making bombs, is well its chinese, everybody knows how to make black powder at home, everytime somebody get's pissed off here he's blows up the fucking neighborhood, ...

'a gun' yeah right, ...what good would a gun be? Look recently at KUNMING it was knives, ...

It's not like the USA, where all is controlled, in ASIA you walk into any hardware or construction store and you can get pure ACID of any kind ( sulfuric, nitric, fulmeric, phosphoric, ... all the things needed to make real explosives ), walk into any drugstore and get glycerine, ... so Nitro-Glycerin is super easy to make, and so is PETN, and almost any plastic explosive, ... Mercury is easy to get, .. all fulminates and 1st stage detonation chemicals are everywhere; diesel fuel and pure ammonia fertilizer readily available to make OKC grade explosives.

In ASIA when the COP's go over the line, the entire POLICE DEPARTMENT building get's blown up, ... not even news in the West. MIght give people ideas.

>>>

A gun is just a tool, a MARTIAL ARTIST must know about range and projection of range, to his targets and or victims, is it feet, or miles, its hand to hand, or sniper, the PISTOL has a very limited range of usefulness from 1 foot to 10 feet, that's it, a real warrior can fight any range from touching his enemy to miles away. The GUN is just a tool, leave it at that, and the GUN in the hand of a moron, is nothing to fear.

 

 

1stepcloser's picture

Great more competition for social security's ammo purchases

Commodore64's picture

Looks like its going swell on all continents....

 

Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Off topic but speaking of cops and numbers cooking. Question is who learned it from who here. Was it Rahm emulating Obama and healthcare.gov or vice versa.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/Chicago-crime-rates/

The Truth About Chicago’s Crime Rates The city’s drop in crime has been nothing short of miraculous. Here’s what’s behind the unbelievable numbers.

...

Chicago conducted a 12-month examination of the Chicago Police Department’s crime statistics going back several years, poring through public and internal police records and interviewing crime victims, criminologists, and police sources of various ranks. We identified 10 people, including Groves, who were beaten, burned, suffocated, or shot to death in 2013 and whose cases were reclassified as death investigations, downgraded to more minor crimes, or even closed as noncriminal incidents—all for illogical or, at best, unclear reasons.

This troubling practice goes far beyond murders, documents and interviews reveal. Chicago found dozens of other crimes, including serious felonies such as robberies, burglaries, and assaults, that were misclassified, downgraded to wrist-slap offenses, or made to vanish altogether. (We’ll examine those next month in part 2 of this special report.)

Many officers of different ranks and from different parts of the city recounted instances in which they were asked or pressured by their superiors to reclassify their incident reports or in which their reports were changed by some invisible hand. One detective refers to the “magic ink”: the power to make a case disappear. Says another: “The rank and file don’t agree with what’s going on. The powers that be are making the changes.”

Granted, a few dozen crimes constitute a tiny percentage of the more than 300,000 reported in Chicago last year. But sources describe a practice that has become widespread at the same time that top police brass have become fixated on demonstrating improvement in Chicago’s woeful crime statistics.

And has there ever been improvement. Aside from homicides, which soared in 2012, the drop in crime since Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy arrived in May 2011 is unprecedented—and, some of his detractors say, unbelievable. Crime hasn’t just fallen, it has freefallen: across the city and across all major categories.

Take “index crimes”: the eight violent and property crimes that virtually all U.S. cities supply to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its Uniform Crime Report. According to police figures, the number of these crimes plunged by 56 percent citywide from 2010 to 2013—an average of nearly 19 percent per year—a reduction that borders on the miraculous. To put these numbers in perspective: From 1993, when index crimes peaked, to 2010, the last full year under McCarthy’s predecessor, Jody Weis, the average annual decline was less than 4 percent.

This dramatic crime reduction has been happening even as the department has been bleeding officers. (A recent Tribune analysis listed 7,078 beat cops on the streets, 10 percent fewer than in 2011.) Given these facts, the crime reduction “makes no sense,” says one veteran sergeant. “And it makes absolutely no sense that people believe it. Yet people believe it.”

...