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Sergey Lavrov: "If Russian Troops Or People Attacked, We'll Retaliate"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It took Joe Biden just a day after his arrival in Kiev to kill and bury the last remaining hope that last week's latest attempt at diplomatic de-escalation in Geneva would actually be anything more than a joke. A few hours ago, in a statement posted on the parliament website, Ukraine acting President Oleksandr Turchynov said that pro-Russian separatists have "crossed line" adding that East Ukraine is currently controlled by “terrorists” supported by Russia.

In other words, the same old song and dance.

Which is why this time Russia made it quite clear to issue a warning that the next time there is a provocation against its soldiers or, more importantly, against its people, those in East Ukraine to be specific, it would retaliate. Once again, Obama's "costs" message is lost on Putin...

RT reported moments ago that "Russia will retaliate if it is attacked and the interests of the Russian people are threatened" citing Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov. He alleged the US has a hand in the current stand-off in Ukraine between the coup-appointed government and anti-Maidan activists.

In an interview with RT’s Sophie Shevardnadze, Sergey Lavrov said that Washington “is running the show” in the Ukrainian crisis.

 

“There is no reason not to believe that the Americans are running the show,” said Lavrov, referencing US Vice President Joe Biden’s visit to Kiev and its coincidence with the renewed counter-terror operation on activists in East Ukraine.

 

“It’s quite telling they chose the moment of the Vice President of the US’ visit to announce the resumption of this operation because the launching of this operation happened immediately after John Brennon’s [head of the CIA] visit to Kiev,” said Lavrov.

It remains to be seen if this latest re-escalation of the Ukraine crisis, which also has killed any hope of a diplomatic resolution, will be just as bullish or more bullish than last Thursday's response which send stocks ramping higher when the Geneva "de-escalation" agreement was announced.

 

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Wed, 04/23/2014 - 04:56 | 4685713 Cattender
Cattender's picture

why send a Clown to do a Man's job?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:00 | 4685715 deus x machina
deus x machina's picture

that's all we have...CLOWNS!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:20 | 4685725 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Cue MiG's heading over the Arctic to probe North American air defense and raise the stress levels in Washington.

 

Look how far south we can get before you can see us... etc, etc.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:21 | 4685735 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Will someone start shooting already?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:24 | 4685737 Tengri Temujin
Tengri Temujin's picture

They already have since Maidan, the CIA funded snipers, where have you been.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:30 | 4685741 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

No, I am not talking about people firing AK-74s at one another, but REAL shooting! 

Spatnaz vs. Maiden Protestors who think they are BAMFs because they went through 1 week of training, wear lots of CAMO, and carry around weapons older than most of us. 

This kind of shooting. 

That or Russia dropping in a S-400 to take care of the lone Su-27 that keeps buzzing the east of Ukraine/future Russia.  I think it must be their only one that works.  

American News Media

::BREAKING NEWS::

Russia destroys entirety of Ukranian Air Force 

Rest of World

::BREAKING NEWS:: 

Eastern-Seperatists shoot down Su-27

I think both headlines would be accurate.  

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:42 | 4685747 new game
new game's picture

ok already, you want some bloodshed-we get it...

patience, merica on it-assclowns work a little slow-don't ya know?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:42 | 4685748 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Perhaps, I under-estimated Ukraine's Air Force. 

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140404/189043839/Ukraine-Puts-Mothballed-Mig-29-Fighter-Jets-Back-in-Service.html

Of their 512 aircraft, approx. 12 are capable of combat. 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:09 | 4685778 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Too bad we can't concieve peace, and it's all the fault of the truely uneducated.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:24 | 4685806 Arius
Arius's picture

Now, I understand why the former Anchor (one of the best it seems) of RT quit on the air live ... as she said it is a network funded by the Russian Government... the working environment as she rightly said was unbearable for any patriotic american!

 

yes, Lavrov we get it - this is your LAST Ultimatum, then what ... attack Alaska because Fania Ludmirova wants it ...

Get over it, you are no longer a superpower!!!  you lost, you were defeated,fair and square ....

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:05 | 4685885 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Mostly propaganda most of the time......check out Yahoo news.

 

According to them....Obamacare is great stuff and the American people are really starting to embrace it.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:27 | 4685899 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

In Russia, you do not cross red line, Red line crosses you <g> (groan)

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:53 | 4685972 linniepar
linniepar's picture

This one never gets old.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:38 | 4686079 knukles
Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:59 | 4685990 Evil Peanut
Evil Peanut's picture

MSM blackout on this news  ->>

Indicted Businessman Names Harry Reid as Alleged Recipient of Massive Bribe -- A Utah businessman is rocking both state and national politics after claiming Utah Attorney General John Swallow helped him broker a deal with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to make a federal investigation into his company quietly disappear.

http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/17/indicted-businessman-names-harry-r...

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:19 | 4686021 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Proves the major shift from MSM to alternative news....most everyone I know is hip to it and watching it like a hawk.

 

I don't think Harry is gonna come out looking very good on this one.

 

Top that with a major flash point of western states looking to repatriate Federal land back to the states...that is growing by the hour.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:30 | 4686053 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Clowns?

These guys make clowns look positively capable, and referring to them as such is an insult to Bobo and all his brethren.

Fuckwits is a far more appropriate handle for the collective.

Although Obozo himself would probably make a mediocre clown at a 1 year old's birthday party - I cannot imagine him competent for much else.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:45 | 4686093 knukles
knukles's picture

Alternative News?
Lordie!
Listen to some talk radio.  I ususally avoid it but got the bug the other day on a long drive.
The Conservatives are beating the shit out of the Establishment Republicans as mere Democrats in shit's clothing while the Liberals are panicking and still talking nionsense.  No tingles for you! 

Yeah.  3 years ago, mention alternative media and you were a conspiracy theorist...
Y'all know the drill 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:45 | 4686094 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

This mean War!

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:02 | 4686112 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

You could say we technically are at war.

 

I think we're in the heavy propaganda part of it.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:23 | 4686198 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

We know Biden.  Why send him?  He was used as a delivery boy perhaps?  I don't see him being useful in any other way.  You know he didn't go there to convince someone.  What did he deliver then?

In the past I've posted against the idea of the coup being entirely from CIA/USA sources.  We've had the director himself and now a Vice President visit Ukraine however.  I'm publicly acknowledging my error.  Now that I have however, the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.  They really want war, and it seems they are going to get it.

People keep rightly suggesting that Obama is no match for Putin, but what if the goal is our destruction?  What if we are not meant to win the next war?  When you consider our current situation from that perspective, it really gets the blood flowing (in a bad way).

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:42 | 4686240 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Possibly known a century hence as the Petrodollar War - more bang for your buck since 1973...until circa 2016 or slightly earlier.

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:45 | 4686228 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The real, decisive war is at home.

Its in the minds of the home population, that is - each individual human being.

 

As long as people use such terms as 'we' and 'us' regarding overseas wars started by bankster owned lawyer/liars and carried out by minion low paid unthinking mercenaries, they will continue. As long as the individuals at home allow their created resources to be used in the psychopath wars, they will continue.

They are starting a war.

We have nothing to do with it, but allow it. (The results of a football game bring more people out on the streets than events which really matter.)  The people have been conditioned to cheer 'their team' since the time they were children (its also natural human tribalism). The people in most countries have much more in common with each other than they do with the psychopath manipulative puppet master 'leaders'.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:49 | 4686264 Ferrari
Ferrari's picture

Really well said. Thank you for that. 

 

As a side note, I find it incredibly ironic that some of the most hard-nosed libertarians on the planet (here) are also the biggest peaceniks, while the NPR, NYT set still bray for more senseless, scurrilous war. It's logical, but still ironic. 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 11:02 | 4686529 mccvilb
mccvilb's picture

And bray they will because it's not their asses on the line. Bray - what a great word!

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 13:36 | 4687161 Golden Rule
Golden Rule's picture

Good points and well said!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:14 | 4685900 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

...... yeah those crazy Russians they really don't seem to get it ...... debt to GDP ratio is in the toilet..... Obese population glued to couch watching mindless TV all day long ..... rampant corruption ........ what a bunch of maroons....

 

 

 

 

 

/s

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:14 | 4685901 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Too bad America can't get over being an empire.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:43 | 4685950 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Arius - Neither are we. Ours connot be sustaine for the same reason as the Soviet Union. With this kind of disrespect, it is no surprise the world will be glowing green soon and you remind to add to my hedges this weekend.

Solutions through innovation and trade make a better world. These cease because of the same old problem of power corrupting and attempting conquest to rob resources rather then take a period of detente, fix what is wrong internally and carry on with posterity.

History shows it is only a matter of time before your kind of thinkers are punched in the nose. Like king of the hill game. Sadly, the collective of each nation suffers for it's leadership with such attitudes.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:56 | 4685981 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Actually, you're wrong. But I'm sure you know that, keyboard tough guy.

Against Russian in Afghanistan fought the entire world. And they were only dragged into the conflict by the revachist Zbig (he admitted it himself, so be a man and do not argue the opposite). The exact opposite was the case with your coallition of the willing who went there in 2001 and got your asses handled to you. I know, I know, you will argue that you lost because you showed "restraint" and that the rules of engagment prevented you from winning, like it was a football match. But the depleted Uranium argues otherwise.

Putin has addressed the Alaska question in his 4-HOUR-LONG Q&A with callers and press. Your butt-boy Obama cannot keep a coherent speech longer han 20 minutes, with or without teleprompter. So you wanna a pissng contest, start there.

I was going to answer to your other post further down the thread, but I can't really be bothered, so here it is:

Rosa Luxemburg's argument with Lenin was that the Marxist revolution should have been started in the most advanced Industrial nation (at the time, Germany) and the world would follow. Lening fough that assertion so the revolution took place in Russia and thus failed. So the marxists are, this time, conducting the revolution acording to Luxemburg's ideas, in the most advanced industrial nation, the USA. So enjoy the Gulag (prison system), the famines (processed foods/diabetes) and the police state (no example needed, not even for a disonest fuck like you).

 

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:56 | 4686124 richsob
richsob's picture

The Russian honks on this website love to crow about how a few hundred U.S. soldiers are no match for the 40,000 Russians sitting on the Ukraine border.  Yea, so what about the other 67,000 U.S. soldiers in Europe?  Or the large numbers of REFORGER troops that can be sent to Germany on short notice?  And NATO countries have no troops left if they suddenly decide Ivan needs to get some push-back?  I almost look forward to the day Putin over plays his hand.  Almost.......because I don't want a war.  I did two tours of combat duty in the U.S. Marines.  War is hell.  It sucks.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:54 | 4686492 known unknown
known unknown's picture

Logistically NATO does not have a chance. I am not a Russian honk or what ever you call people who support Russia on this forum. NATO's only option is tactical nukes. The reason I support Russia is I have a sense of right and wrong not some idealogical drivel like being free or they envy our way of life. The US are a bunch of amateurs especially the way they have been discovered at every covert operation. Look a Brennan CIA punk using a fake name visitIng Kiev or Nuland who could not use an encrypted secure line? War is hell but I suspect Russian troops are ready to defend their way of life not questioning why they are there unlike the American troops who die needlessly in foreign countries legitimately asking themselves why.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 12:28 | 4686871 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Well personally, I'm not  pro-Putin or pro-Russia.

I'm against the launching of a new Cold War that could lead to a thermo-nuclear hot war WW3.

I'm against losing what little liberties are left under the excuse of 'war conditions'.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 12:29 | 4686872 richsob
richsob's picture

Thank you for a respectful reply.  It's nice to hear from someone who has an honest disagreement and is willing to discuss the issues.  NATO is not a paper tiger if the Brits and Germans decided to go all in.  France is not much of a help but the key issue with NATO is geography.  In a hot war Russia would have a hell of a lot of ground to defend and they would quickly be stretched too thin to fight a war on a broad front.  The Russian military is a shadow of what it used to be.  That is a fact.  You can ignore the stories of the "advanced equipment" Russia has put on show next to Ukraine.  They are so short of good equipment their regular forces' training is a joke.  Yes, the Russians could tear a hell of a hole in Europe if they decided to make The Big Push but it would fail.  The U.S. and its allies would defeat the Russian army.....but at the cost of destroying their own economies too.  This isn't a pissing match in an alley.  It's dead serious stuff.  Nobody should be pulling for a hot war.  I truly believe Putin will put a Klingon mind fuck on Obama as long as he can.  If the Pentagon finally makes a bold move, Putin will adroitly decompress the situation, back off militarily, and then rely on beating Obama at the negotiating table.....which wouldn't be hard to do knowing how weak Obama is.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 12:45 | 4686935 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

@richsob - - - like you, I'm against a war breaking out. And I'm from a military family & also served.

The problem with military types (I know from experience) is we've often thought along very narrow & limited lines. That is, looking at 'national defense' in strictly military terms when the trillions spent on 'defense' budgets and the possibility for use of troops against the people at home may very well be the greatest threat to the republic. And of course, like most Americans, most in the military know nothing about the nature of money or the banking powers which actually run the country. Those very interests determine who becomes president - - - the CIC which those in the military obey.  Often it seems that the gungho 'us versus them' mentality takes charge instead of real thinking.

You may find this article interesting:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/an-officer-corps-that-ca...

I have no idea what the result of a US vs Russia war would be and hope we don't find out. It could go nuke.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 13:13 | 4687046 richsob
richsob's picture

I agree with you.  Military minds tend to overlook some of the important financial and society issues that have as much importance in foreign relations as throw weight.  And I agree 101% that the biggest cheerleader we have right now for war, war, war is the military industrial complex.  It never ceases to amaze me how every person who wears a uniform is suddenly considered to be a "hero" and every penny spent on the military is not seen as a penny we might have better used on roads, bridges, reducing taxes, etc.  I'm all for having the Most Bad Ass Military On The Planet but what we have is a huge wasteful war machine that is being used by the politicians as a (1) jobs program to employ people when the economy sucks (2) a way to raise money for their campaigns and (3) a way to take people's eyes off the real problems in this country: illegal immigration, out of control spending and moral failure.  China, Russia, the U.S......they all pound the war drums to keep the people sedated. 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 14:39 | 4687413 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

For a good laugh (everybody could use a laugh now & then) check out this vets video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KZUfH-wyxYo

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:51 | 4685871 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

Yeah, a real shame that an uneducated community organizer with forged birth certificates and sealed university records can be so gullible. Howdy Doody had better handlers than that mental midget. Murricans? See my handle, specially formulated for the average government union school dumbed down bottom feeders.

Jeff Dunham for president, the best puppeteer of all!!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:01 | 4685998 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

SILENCE!!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:44 | 4686092 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

The Arabs paid for Obama's college education....OK....now I'll be quiet.

 

Oh....and the Keystone pipeline has been put on indefinite hold.

 

Pretty sure I'm done now.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:21 | 4686039 August
August's picture

No insulin for you!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:53 | 4685961 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No, only banker ass clowns want war, enrich their scum sucking masters and distract from their fiat implosion.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:21 | 4685802 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you still have not explained why you are so anxious to see rivers of blood flowing. meanwhile, note how restrained the local factions are, in Ukraine. up to now, compared to what they could do, and hopefully in future, too

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:44 | 4685857 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Who is Igor Ivanovich Strelkov?

(Dammit nmewn, stop it!!!...you're never going to win this ugliest duckling contest...lol)

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:01 | 4685995 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Ugly little bastard isn't he.  There was never a doubt,  Russia would miss its chance to stretch out to its historical borders with the Kenyan mental midget in charge over here. 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:57 | 4686131 chapaev's ghost
chapaev&#039;s ghost's picture

Wasn't he the revolutionary husand to Lara who had his own train and met a bad end?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:41 | 4686441 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

No, I am not talking about people firing AK-74s at one another, but REAL shooting!

This isn't an Xbox game . . . . what a dickhead.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:15 | 4686178 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Mark him down but as anyone can see, the damn bankster assholes are pushing us to war.  No one wants war.  Well no one except those who stand to profit.  It is inevitable that this grow to a war.  It is going to whether anyone likes it or not.  It isn't up to us and they don't give a shit what we think.  So yeah, start shooting and let's get it over with.  Maybe it will be the spark that wakes everyone up and we can go shoot the banksters finally.  Or these people...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuzkLbHb1Q8

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:52 | 4685966 Fiat Envy
Fiat Envy's picture

When is America going to realize that some jobs are too important to select the affirmative action candidate?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:21 | 4686194 Joe A
Joe A's picture

The clown in chief couldn't come. He was busy drawing red lines.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:42 | 4686241 j0nx
j0nx's picture

As has been said numerous times before, Vlad knows full well that Barry and Co. are wayyy too busy here at home trampling the rights of the American people to be bothered with following up any lame ass threats to Russia.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:05 | 4685719 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

Obama, Biden, Kerry =CLOWNS. I wonder if this is all just a distraction to drive the exploding NSA Scandle off to the background-Pelosi was about to go nuclear and then BINGO! a NEW NeoCON artist enemy/distraction

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:07 | 4685773 intric8
intric8's picture

You are in error. This isnt a distraction, you are witnessing the execution of a well-contrived plan years in the making with a major objective, to literally surround russia with enemies. What the real end game is i cant be sure of because I dont think diabolically like our nc schemers do. One thing is clear, psyops went into action and prepped Putin to be cast in a negative light across the spectrum.. from anti-gay to communist to anti-semite. The media is fully complicit with the attempted assasination of putin's character, including that planted bitch newscaster who quit on air. You see the white house instigating one provocation after another, like a bunch of punk kids in grade school flicking the ear of the big russian kid who really wants to mind his own business, but cant. Who will feel sorry for him when the leader of the punk gang has lots of charisma and buys his group of minions candy and pizza all the time after school? This is a very cruel world.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:32 | 4685830 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Also part of the "well-contrived plan" is to create constant opportunities to cast America in a bad light whilst back room puppet masters work towards their grand global agenda; yeah the same puppets profiting from the Fed. This is such a double bull-shit game, its sowing the seeds for war tensions that normal humans abhor.

Its great that many more Americans can see their own country in a more honest light and hopefully increase internal pressure and debate. (Wish my countrymen could).

But don't be too quick to assume Russian elites have minded their own business let alone wanted to mind their own business in for example: world resource grabs (Africa, Asia, S.Am, ME), geo-political affairs, UN, BRICS... etc. To be sure when you're not top-dog you have to take a different approach.

All I'm saying is its not one-way evil that some posts seem to imply. As you say its a very cruel world.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:59 | 4685924 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

NEW NeoCON artist enemy

 

What you need to worry about is bilateral progressives....those cats will kill you in a heartbeat and blame the other side. There is no left or right.

Do you really think Jeb Bush thinks amnesty is good for America.....really?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:07 | 4686009 intric8
intric8's picture

neocons, neolibs, progressives, these titles have little meaning anymore because their bread is being buttered by the same people. Nc's were first to escalate 'the' agenda to the levels and expertise attained today, and through conflation, suckered in others whose agendas happened to be aligned. So, nc's win and get the noteriety, as far as im concerned

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:13 | 4686024 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Thry're all in the same club...and you're not in it.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:46 | 4686097 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Satan is the puppet master.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:05 | 4686148 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Wow....you just came right out and said it.

That's pretty ballsey!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:13 | 4686169 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

Bullshit.  Humans are responsible.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:21 | 4686360 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Agree, while Satan may be the author of all lies it doesn't mean people have to follow his instruction manual.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:26 | 4686204 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Flip? Flip Wilson? Is that you?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:16 | 4686029 KickIce
KickIce's picture

There's definitely nobody pure and innocent in this game.  I think the game plan is similar to what happened in 1907, the economy is a wreck due to the money changers but out of the kindness of his heart JP Morgan comes in to save the country and eventually leads to the Federal Reserve.  Of course the people are stuck playing the red team/blue team while the Rothchilds remain in the background poised to buy the next politician that comes on the scene.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:00 | 4686138 chapaev's ghost
chapaev&#039;s ghost's picture

You're repeating Dontgoforit's argument, just with more words.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:00 | 4686276 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I've always thought that if you go down the rabbit's hole deep enough you would find Satan surrounded by the Rothschilds and their agents.  In my defense I was trying to get a bit more specific.  :)  The point is, if the operation goes according to plan those that created the problem will get credited as heroes for coming up with a solution, and the solution will be nothing but a repackaging of the old system into the new.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:53 | 4685861 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

there are lots of plans, and some of them are really old

the British Empire started it's containement strategy vs the Russian Empire in the 19th Century, mainly to protect India (which resulted in The Great Game and today's Afghanistan). Note that at that time the Russian Tsar was extending it's potential protection to Greece and even to... Jerusalem

the US-led NATO alliance continued this containment strategy with the acquisition of Turkey, and missiles there led to the Cuba Crisis

meanwhile Russia has not been sleeping. lots and lots of plans in Ukraine were activated, while probably even more are on hold

note that all geopolitical "players" have tons of plans. the question is always which to activate, and when. or at all. often it's on the follow-up of provocations

as such, there has always been an "end game", and it was always out of reach of all "players"

the whole tussle at the moment is contained in a tug-of-war about Ukraine, yet Syria and Afghanistan play a role in it, too

note that Pakistan is so pissed off about the drone war that no logistic help is provided anymore for the Afghan garrisons. up to this crisis, everything had to be shipped through... Russia

and rumours still abound about the role of the Afghan drug trade for the coffers of various intelligence agencies involved

we live in the Second Globalization Era, and are witnessing the Second Great Game conflict. history might not repeat, but it sure rhymes

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:10 | 4685896 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

the Russian Tsar was extending it's potential protection to Greece and even to... Jerusalem

 

Quite right too !  A French dictator - Napoleon III wanted the Roman Catholic Church to hold the keys to the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem instead of the Orthodox Church.

Just because the French today are Godless Socialists and the Russians are Orthodox like the Greeks and Serbs and Eastern Ukrainians is hardly a reason to pander to Godless Atheists running Western nations into penury and oblivion

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:49 | 4685920 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the French Godless Socialists? I remember a Frenchman burning himself to protest against gay marriage, last year. try to explain to Marine Le Pen or any of her Front National party that she is a Godless Socialist. or any member of the UMP, aka "Gaullists", or the MPF

meanwhile the Orthodox Church of Ukraine has split from the Russian Orthodox Church... in 1992

imho residents of the UK or the US often misunderstand and misjudge the conservative backbone of continental europe

perhaps because continental conservativism is less "entangled" with liberalism (note: not US Liberals)

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:08 | 4686011 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

.

the US often misunderstand and misjudge

It's because we are so fucking exceptional...

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:42 | 4686088 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

It is because we are only 200+ years old and they are over 2000 years old.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:40 | 4686233 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

LC55, I am not sure I can buy into that. In fact, it could be argued the US has made up for lost time, exporting democracy and all that.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:56 | 4685979 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Godless atheist is a tautology .... just like fanatic theist.

We've pandered to the billions of deluded religious nutjobs all proclaiming theirs is the right "guy in the sky" (of the hundreds to choose from) for centuries - sitting back quietly bemused while you slaughter each other ad nauseam ... how about we give rational peace loving humanism a go ... never know we might just get a better result ?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:57 | 4685982 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

btw Napoleon III was as much a dictator of France as Crimea is still part of Ukraine. He called for a referendum that made him... emperor

a text-book reason why I ask after every referendum when is the next one about the same matter

referenda are the slegdehammer of politics. easily misused, easily misunderstood, often just a propaganda tool

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:36 | 4686223 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Joseph Conrad showed how the Great Game was a farce in The Secret Agent. Little people shouldn't involve themselves in the games of our mentally retarded leaders.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:07 | 4685721 Dr_D
Dr_D's picture

Heard a speach of a former Russian high-ranked military turned political scientist recently who said in his view no price would be too high for Putin to achieve his strategic goals, which include protecting (and controlling) Russians inside and outside Russia. So much for the usefullness of the US warnings about "costs"...

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:28 | 4685825 Arius
Arius's picture

how about the price of his life???  he thinks he is untouchable, well he better think again ...

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:46 | 4685865 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Hasn't he survived a few assignination attempts? I read somewhere 6 I think, and started wondering if a couple of attempts were part of a PR op to create a hero myth around him the way it was all described. However, he's tough and obviously serving agendas beyond our knowledge so will probably go on many more years (decades?).

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 23:12 | 4689177 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're funny.

Putin rose up from the ranks of the KGB / FSB.

Ya, I'm sure this is the very first time he's ever thought someone might kill him to stop him.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:11 | 4685723 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Is be come one come all! Crazy Ivan fireworks is be many kiloton, show is not be to miss!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:16 | 4685728 intric8
intric8's picture

GET THE FUCK OUT OF UKRAINE, BIDEN! We dont need another washington assclown flying in, power tripping and inflamming shit even more! Statist prick!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:11 | 4685782 negative rates
negative rates's picture

He can't hear you, he's in another world trying to get HIS message through.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:04 | 4685999 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No one heard a single word he said..

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:34 | 4686062 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Lavrov: "Well, Vladimir, if the old plagiarist Biden is the best they can do, I suggest we sit back and watch them blow themselves up."

"Da. Hold on, it is the red phone. "Hello. Sure. Use the back door." That was Bath House. He needs another Russky dick up his ass."

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:18 | 4685730 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Funny how that Jew Proclamation allegedly posted by the Russian Separatists just got forgotten by the Mainstram Media...

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/no_author/blowback-for-an-imperial-fo...

 

American Progaganda isn't working quite as well anymore...

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:23 | 4685736 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

That is their tactic, they put an idea into the gullible heads than "forget" about it once it gets refuted but people still have it in memory. I call it the "throwing shit at a wall" tactic

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:47 | 4685751 Tengri Temujin
Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:31 | 4685929 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture
American Progaganda isn't working quite as well anymore...

That is very true:

Towards the End of U.S. Propaganda by Thierry Meyssan

The Anglo-Saxon Empire is based on a century of propaganda. It managed to convince us that the United States is "the land of the free" and that it engaged in wars to defend its ideals. But the current crisis over Ukraine has changed the rules of the game. Now Washington and its allies are not the only speakers. Their lies are openly challenged by the government and media of another major state, Russia. In the era of satellites and the Internet, Anglo-Saxon propaganda no longer works.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article183337.html

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:42 | 4686428 headhunt
headhunt's picture

'It managed to convince us that the United States is "the land of the free" and that it engaged in wars to defend its ideals.'

Most of America stopped believing that shit half way through the Iraq war. The new world of communication and fact has ruined the information monopoly of the leftists which is why they are attempting to import millions of useful idiots from Mexico to continue their hold over the reigns of power.

We are ruled and ruined by 'progressives' (a cute name for communists) and the generations who have had any real education stolen from them, shake their head in agreement with the idiots in control and ask for 'more porridge please' without understanding that they are the new slaves.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:20 | 4685732 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

"Obama's "costs" message is lost on Putin" well you would not expect a Communist to understand the meaning of the word "cost" .. no I don't mean Putin ofc.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:30 | 4685744 jubber
jubber's picture

...and Gold falls further even as the US$ falls

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:54 | 4685758 Tengri Temujin
Tengri Temujin's picture

Paper gold, you try to buy it at that price for physical at any gold wholesaler, I dare you.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:29 | 4686050 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

From our great contributor, Gordon Gekko:

http://www.realpriceofgold.com/

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 05:51 | 4685755 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

Where's Hamy Spamy?

Where's Trav?

Where's Michael?

Where's Popo?

I'm in need of some perspective on all the shit that's goin' down right now...

ps...I'm new but old to ZH

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:00 | 4685765 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

It is starting to look like Ukraine is moving towards a civil war. Lets hope Obama does not get us or NATO further involved in the middle of this!  More about the issue of borders and the ugly spill back that can occur in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-issue-of-sovereign-borders.html

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:27 | 4686046 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Which means Bath House will get US and ZATO involved.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:05 | 4685772 Incubus
Incubus's picture

just skip the foreplay already.

 

WWIII

 

WWIII

 

WWIII

 

WWIII

 

It's time to bring the jobs back to MURIKA. And how do we do that?

 

DESTROY THE OTHER TEAM'S SHIT.

 

You know the drill.  Let's get to it.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:13 | 4685785 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Draft bitches!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:56 | 4685980 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Send OWS.....tell them there's free food.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:06 | 4685996 August
August's picture

Ah, the draft....  another echo of Murca's axial age of Raping the Constitutional order, circa WWI.

If the sovereign states of Europe have the power to conscript their citizens into military service, then of course the same power must be inherent to the US Government, any explicit constitutional prohibition of involuntary servitude not fucking withstanding.

Must emanate from the penumbra....

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:15 | 4685789 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

A red line from Lavrov is worth 100 of Obama's.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:18 | 4685794 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The maggots finally got the cold war up and running again now it looks like they mean to turn up the heat. #WINNING!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:20 | 4685801 Tradehard
Tradehard's picture

Get a clue you useful idiot. Russia has surrounded itself with enemies. Ask neighboring people how they feel about Russia. Everyone hates Russia and Russians, they are scum!

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:15 | 4685903 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

@tradehard ask everyone about how they think of Americans, they hate us and everyone know us gov are bunch of self interest dicks.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:07 | 4686159 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I hope he's not the best we have at the CIA.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:15 | 4685904 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

@tradehard ask everyone about how they think of Americans, they hate us and everyone know us gov are bunch of self interest dicks.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:34 | 4686064 Tradehard
Tradehard's picture

Well I can tell you that countries neighbouring Russia like Americans. You are always welcome here. We have seen what the Russians are like and there is no one on this planet that is worse than them. Utter barbarians..

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:57 | 4686129 fxchange
fxchange's picture

I am Russian and twice traveled to the USA. I like ordinary Americans but I don' t understand why US TPTB and MSM are so bulling at Russia. That is why I don't like V. Nuland, S.Power, J.Biden, etc.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:27 | 4686207 Vracar
Vracar's picture

Why dont you ask your neighbour how he feels about you?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:37 | 4685840 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

There may be some truth in what you say, but do you honestly believe that Russia has a greater number of enemies than the USA?

The weird thing is that the USA has spent so much money in making enemies.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 06:48 | 4685858 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Not weird at all. The maggots NEED enemies, the MIC NEEDS enemies, boogeymen, brown skinned bogeys, whatever. They manufacture fake enemies when they can't conjure up a real threat. Enemies, frenemies, even our "friends" hate us. This is no accident. Without military spending, arms sales, the police state, and the international protection/extortion racket they are NOTHING.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:14 | 4686025 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

They manufacture fake enemies when they can't conjure up a real threat.

Yep. The MIC figured out that if they could keep the US military from demobilizing after WW2, they could keep their gravy train going indefinitely. It would eventually drain the nation of everything of economic, political, and spiritual value, leaving a dried, empty husk. But hey, for seventy years, it was party on!

http://fff.org/2014/04/22/engendering-crises-to-justify-the-national-sec...

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:27 | 4685921 kurt
kurt's picture

Thus proving we are an occupied country.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:17 | 4686033 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

As long as you shut up, pay your taxes, and obey the rulers in Vichy DC, it's a free country.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:04 | 4685883 smacker
smacker's picture

I believe Lavrov is right when he says the USG is running the show in East Ukraine. Actions and comments by USG mouthpieces and their sycophants in the UK government & EU for months make it absolutely clear that this political/diplomatic farce has been designed and created by Western powers. Anything said to the contrary is a blatant lie. The real Western objective is not to sort out Ukraine's shambles system of government - they have no interest in doing that. It's to create the justification to have a political/economic/military face-off with Russia.

They are playing with fire and its way past time for Western MSM to expose the truth before these maniacs plunge the world into WW III.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:06 | 4685889 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The gameplan is clear - the USA is using Kiev to topple Putin. This is the Gameplan that Europe set out to implement in August 1914 - Game of Empires.

Now we have the EU=Holy Roman Empire II as a subset of NATO which is simply the US Imperial Outpost in Europe expanding and bumping up against Russia.

Russia is to be taken down to isolate China.

 

Brzezinski is playing Polish Politics and will no doubt be terribly sorry when it blows up the Atlantic Alliance and European nations defect from the US Empire

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:18 | 4685906 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

come on, sandmann... the EU is not "bumping against Russia". various governments of countries of the eurozone have in the last 15 years repeatedly pointed out that Russia has to get a respected and mutually satisfactory role in our clubs or with our clubs

Italian PM Berlusconi went so far to put the motion of offering EU membership to Russia, and German Chancellor Schröder echoed the feeling

it's the US and the UK that have no restraint in their dealings with Russia, and no restraint with their attempts to undermine the EU with the new Transatlantic Trade Pact proposals

meanwhile Poland is getting in the center stage of this dilemma. note PM Tusk's proposal for a common gas policy, smack in the middle between pro- and anti- Russian sentiment

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:53 | 4685968 smacker
smacker's picture

Your claim that it's only the USG & UKG behind this Ukraine farce doesn't stack up when one realises that the EU was directly involved in stirring up the fascist revolution after Ukraine turned its back on the EU. How quickly we forget.....

As I said to you elsewhere, I believe that Berlin and Brussels (and other EU members it seems) have a secret plan to get close to Russia and eventually bring it into the EU to further expand the EU Empire, run by unelected fascists. But right now they are being sidelined by those running NATO and the usual suspects in Washington & Westminster, who quite obviously want a major face-off with Putin, presumably to weaken Russia and get control of its energy reserves.

Meanwhile, Putin has other friends elsewhere and looks like he's not in the mood to be pushed around by criminal Western governments.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:19 | 4686007 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

smacker, EU countries or the EU org? if countries, which ones? if org, who?

do you have any evidence for this claim of yours?

meanwhile, regarding secret plans: how secret can anything be, here on the continent, under the gaze of the Five Eyes?

I'm not supporting Putin's proto-fascist regime's land grabs, here. I'm just pointing out that there were and are open plans of finding solutions that might save Russian "face" and interests

and those open plans have been discussed in various capitals, including Berlin and Rome. between 2003 and 2006, we openly talked about offering EU membership to Russia. including NATO membership. this was smacked down, and replaced with a completely anti-Russian policy set... by London and Washington

which were complicated by the lull we had when Russia was our only supply line to... Afghanistan. remember how Pakistan said FU?

meanwhile I have to admit that the new batch of NATO allies and EU partners - "forced down our throaths" at breakneck speed by Washington - had no interest of finding themselves too soon in the same clubs as Russia

yet even Warsaw and Helsenki are thinking back and retracing a few of their more extreme anti-Russian stances. and Warsaw is the key capital, in the east of the EU

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:19 | 4686037 smacker
smacker's picture

"EU countries or the EU org?" & "do you have any evidence for this claim of yours?"

Both. Exactly who is driving it remains hidden by the usual smoke & mirrors, but NATO is in there, which of course means the USG is involved.

The evidence has been there since Ukraine turned its back on the EU. NATO is involved for sure and most EU member states are NATO members. You either know all that or you're in denial because you are clearly one of those who wants Russia to get into bed with the EU.

The EU itself and some member states (not just the UKG) are playing a game of double-cross, trying to satisfy USG/NATO aims and also the aims of people like Merkel. This is currently backfiring because Russia has other allies in Asia and is in no mood to be pushed around by a bunch of warmongering fascist despots in Washington, Westminster, Brussels or Berlin.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:32 | 4686060 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

if the damn choice is getting in bed with Russia or having a war with Russia you can damn bet on me and millions here to choose the first option

though I think you misunderstand how much leeway we have, when it comes to options

about what do you think I'm in denial? that the last UkrG was a bunch of corrupt pols trying to play two sides for the best deal?

yes, the EU made an offer. imho a shameful one, btw. so what? the UkrG turned it down, and there was what some media called EuroMaidan. imho mostly against the UkrG, not for an EU deal. and Ukraine is falling out of it's seams - mostly for unresolved internal, national reasons, the kindling for all those torch-bearing goons to start a damn huge fire

meanwhile the fascist elements of West Ukraine are working together since long with various fascists all over europe (except Russian ones, of course). and the whole damn East of Europe is chockerblock full of intelligence operatives from everywhere, yet particularly from Washington and Moscow, often embedded in deep cover into those fascist groups

who is exactly the warmongerer, here? Brussels? Berlin? seriously? how about Madrid or Lisbon, when we are at it?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:37 | 4686220 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Watch what you wish for.

About the third time you are beaten and raped by your new bedfellow you will be wishing for full on conflict.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:46 | 4686256 smacker
smacker's picture

Ghordius, you're in denial about the EU being directly involved with the revolution in Ukraine. You prefer to believe it was just the USG, UKG and NATO. But Brussels was in there too.

Just remind me who it was from Brussels who went to Kiev very soon after it turned its back on the EU deal and had meetings with the fascists.

Just remind me how many German agitators were counted by an eye witness (hint: about 40) firing up violence in Kiev.

Just remind me how many times EU apparatchiks claimed that the referendun in Crimea was illegal.

Truth is that the mess in Ukraine was engineered and fired up by Western governments, the EU and NATO. And we know the clear aim was to overthrow the elected commie president and replace him with a Euro-leaning placeman who would allow NATO to install itself right up to the borders of Russia and bring Ukraine into the EU.

It hasn't worked and the situation is deteriorating.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 11:40 | 4686703 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

don't know, which fascists? the real ones or the new UkrG? lately there is this tendency of confuse the two groups just because they are political bedfellows, mostly in order to discredit or delegitimize the current acting UkrG

German fascist groups helping Ukrainian fascists? of course. yet remember that Germany is as such the most anti-fascist nation we currently have, in Europe. you can't blame Berlin for actions of German fascists which - if caught in those acts - would have to expect the hardest court cases. are you aware of how much fascist groups here help each other?

I myself ain't no friend of the Crimean referendum. will it be ever repeated? perhaps with real observers? why did the Crimean Tartars boycott it?

yes, western governments. my point is about which ones and how much. you are, imho, trying to simplify too much

Berlin and other capitals are either plotting a secret understanding with Russia or plotting to push NATO borders right to Russia's nose. you can't have both

which leads me to London: the champion of eastern EU enlargment in the EU council. and this is a fact you can check upon. explain to me why, of all capitals, London was so keen to expand the EU? answer: to help Washington expand NATO

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:38 | 4686429 intric8
intric8's picture

"Ukraine is falling out of it's seams - mostly for unresolved internal, national reasons, the kindling for all those torch-bearing goons to start a damn huge fire" - sorry, but this is a bunch of horseshit, ghordo. the usg isn't merely a 'torch-bearing goon' who stumbled upon some random mess. Its quite clear, as recent information has shown, that we (the u.s.) were the architects of that mess to begin with. Why not? We were at work with the rose and orange revolutions, in kosovo as well, we fucked putin with the abmt, the list goes on. Theres obviously a plan unraveling,ghordo. Smacker cant prove which countries operatives were at work in ukraine, but i'll bet anything snowden has an idea, and putin now as well..

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 11:19 | 4686612 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

none of the involved parties created the current rift between West and East Ukraine, between speaking Ukrainian and speaking Russian, and so on

we are talking about people and groups who are exploiting this rift, those unresolved internal national reasons

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:22 | 4685911 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

The gameplan is clear - the USA is using Kiev to topple Putin.

Exactly how will they achieve it?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:07 | 4686158 headhunt
headhunt's picture

'...the USA is using Kiev to topple Putin.' -  That is ridiculous propaganda of the same quality as Nancy Pelosi and her democrat colleges ilk.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:31 | 4686401 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

Something must have gone wrong with the strategy, it looks like its running in reverse. Jiujitsu?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:08 | 4685894 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

Some kind of conflict in Ukraine involving the Russian military is inevitable, since the Kyiv "government" is pushing for it at the behest of the West. The question is not whether Russian troops will enter Ukraine, but how far into Ukraine they will go. If Russia is keen on implementing the decentralised Ukraine solution she proposed, she needs to occupy all of Ukraine, crush the thugs and disarm them, put in place the new constitution and conduct elections for the regions and the nation before withdrawing. However that risks Russia sustaining unnecessary casualties and angering some patriotic Ukrainians, especially in the West and Central regions. Liberating the East and South from Kyiv and annexing them is the easiest option, but not Russia's first choice and is also not what Ukrainians in the East and South want. So the best option seems to be to liberate the East and South, make them autonomous republics within Ukraine, which in regional referendums commit themselves to united, but decentralised Ukraine once such a constitution is in place. That will throw the ball back into the court of the West and Central Ukrainians. If they want a united Ukraine, they have to force whoever represents them to draft such a constitution as is acceptable to the East and South or rsk losing the territories for good.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:20 | 4685907 Tengri Temujin
Tengri Temujin's picture

Why invade and be responsible for western ukranie which is a bunch of polephiles.  He just needs to keep the east and south Ukraine free from USA meddling by keeping his troops on the border.  The facts speak for themselves on the ground.

The EU is stuck with Ukraine's debt, Russia maintains its factories in East Ukraine and it gets most of the best agricultural land in Ukraine while making the USA look like fools while showing the world that the USA is not a democracy but rather a real bitch of an empire that kills innocents for its corporate interestes just like it did in Central America.

When your enemy is doing such a good job of shooting itself in the foot why stop them from doing it.  The ill will the USA is cultivating around the world and in Europe works for Russia as the EU is pushing Ukraine back towards Russia.

I think the Chinese and Russian game plan is to keep the USA bleeding/printing money as they stretch its military resources all over the globe.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:01 | 4685994 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

It may surprise many Westerners, but Russians have a strong affection for Ukrainains, all Ukrainains, not just ethnic Russians in Ukraine. The unsavoury elements are an extremely small minroity. Unless inevitable, Russia wouldn't want to see any Ukrainian territory fall to Western hands.

If Russia can fend off a division of Ukraine for a while longer by which time the West would have collapsed economically, Ukraine doesn't have to be divided, because by then even the strong pro-Western elements (other than the insignificant minority of thugs) in the West and Central Ukraine would realise their folly and a united Ukraine would be a strong Russian ally.

The USA and the West are finished, only the last rites are pending. There is nothing to be gained for Russia by looking at the world as a playing field between the West and Russia. In this new paradigm, Russia needs to look at relations with every non-Western country from a long term perspective. A stable and united Ukraine is in Russia's long term interests than a divided Ukraine where one part becomes a failed state or worse is in the control of unsavoury elements.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:08 | 4686012 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Affection for Ukranians?  Was the Holodomor an expression of love?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:33 | 4686065 vened
vened's picture

Nice try, but the perpetrators of Holodomor: Lazar Kaganovich and his satraps were not Russians.  They were relatives of Kagan, Nudelman (Nuland), Kohn(Kerry), etc.

Trotsky(Bronstein) and Communist Party were financed by Rothschild and Schiff.

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:01 | 4686132 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Right, not the Russian Communists attacking the Kulaks it was evil JOOOOS..  Occams razor just informed me your an idiot apologist..

http://www.swarthmore.edu/Library/peace/Sovietposters/soviethistintro.htm

Here is a nice collection of evil Kulak posters promulgated I am sure by anyone but the Soviets..  Run home to your handlers now like a good neo-russian. 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:17 | 4686177 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

The USA and the West are finished, only the last rites are pending. There is nothing to be gained for Russia by looking at the world as a playing field between the West and Russia. In this new paradigm, Russia needs to look at relations with every non-Western country from a long term perspective.

Well stated.

edit: Unfortunately :(

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:13 | 4686326 headhunt
headhunt's picture

One problem - Russia will collapse without the much needed income from the west.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 17:20 | 4688057 vened
vened's picture

Lame strawman fallacy followed by ad hominems.  Calm yourself and use Occam's razor proprely.

"Kulak" is a Commie propaganda word for middle-class farmers who didn't like Communiststs or collectivization. So Commies genocided them.

Here is another fun historical fact:

Communist ideology is a creation of Karl Mordechai (Marx). Mordechai was mentored by Moses Hess who also happened to mentor Theodor Herzl - the creator of Zionism.

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:36 | 4686074 Tradehard
Tradehard's picture

Don't even bother with ZH. This is a paid Russian propaganda site. And most of the commentators here are just delusional doomers and useful idiots.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:02 | 4686143 headhunt
headhunt's picture

That was Stalin, a murdering psychopath communist.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:06 | 4686152 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Yes, and not that no Jewish folks were present they were there just like Christians and atheists were, the evil in mens hearts is present in us all.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 12:44 | 4686936 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Please educate me apparently the Holodomor was a picnic thrown for the Kulaks by the Soviets...  On the flip  the Turks marched those nice Armenians  into the desert for a Sunday stroll, they liked them and wanted them to be happy..

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:55 | 4686279 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

The coup de grâce will be the fall of the weakening petrodollar/reserve currency status, something Russia is actively pursuing with the BRICS. (don't forget the arabs and africans). Rottenchild must be livid, imagine if a specie (effectively making gold the world currency while preserving statehood sovereignty) backed currency comes to the forefront as a global currency before he can weasel in an SDR type fiat funny munny to replace the dollar.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 10:23 | 4686371 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

ZH readers seem to phase in and out of understanding  the core dynamics of what's going on here.  Russia and China are the Empire's intended victims and are clearly playing defense, playing for survival against the odds, and each is  dealing with the threat of a economic collapse of a kind with which they have no experience.   Both are post-communist nations whose new ruling classes have not fully consolidated their powr. They are playing their hands well, and seem to understand the Empire's game and its vulnerability. My guess is either would gladly settle for a draw if they were offered it.  But they both seem to understand that the Empire in its death throes can't offer them one.  

 

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:53 | 4686215 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Plausible scenario in a non-nuclear world. However 600 US paratroopers in place - as a tripwire - should suffice to define Russia's boundary.  

600 paratroopers in Odessa?  Bad move for the Empire.  They would find themselves in a struggle with the local population and would be pushing Russia too far.  Assuming they aren't totally insane and don't really want a world thermonuclear war if they can help it.  

600 paratroopers in Kiev would be enough to force a divided Ukraine.  Perhaps also look for Polish troops in Lviv, Romanian paratroops in Moldova.

Which might serve the Empire's purposes as well as any outcome could.  

Ukraine as a bridge between the EU and Russia would be broken.

The fascist thugs could continue to consolidate W Ukraine as a hotbed of anti-RUssian hatred, fueled by ethnic cleansing.

The boundary between East and West would become a permanent armed and hostile truce line like we saw in Germany, Korea, Vietnam and the Straits of Taiwan, and the US media will be fed an endless supply of anti-Russian horror stories of terrible things their bad soldiers do to good innocent Ukrainians.

Destruction of the EU economy? Special bonus, right out of Naaiomi Klein's Shock Doctrine.  Eliminates economic competition to US, creates immense new market for restructuring and reconstructing EU economy.

Problems with the plan:

The people of the EU countries, up to and including much of the national ruling classes, have just about had it with the Empire and its Banksters, and could start forcing their governments to make their own deals with Russia.  (Best outcome?)

China fearful of isolation if Russia collapses could intervene to promote this outcome.

The people of the US and the UK, once alerted to what's going down, could throw a wrench in their works like we did last October.

If the boundary between East and West Ukraine must be defined by boots on the ground, the opportunity for miscalculation will be immense and the "tripwire" could get tripped. Plus everyone's strategic forces will be on a hair trigger, and the electronic warfare in the Black Sea which we got a glimpse of last week is a complete wild card, unknown territory with unpredictable dynamics.  

And  for all the CIA's nearly 70 years experience with overthrowing democracies and setting up fascist dictatorships - a practice in which Obama's family has deep roots, btw - the people of Western Ukraine could still surprise them and spoil their plans, thanks in part to YOuTube and Twitter. 

Hate to say it, but the Empire's Ukraine operation could require a new Big Fear and Outrage event to work.  That would take something much bigger and scarier than blowing up some skyscrapers this time around to swamp the resistance of vastly more skeptical populations.  

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 07:08 | 4685895 ross81
ross81's picture

unusually strong language from Mr.Lavrov. the Russians are obviously not going to put up with much more shit from this tinpot junta in Kiev. When the time comes to act, Moscow will do so decisively and there'll be nothing the EU/US can do about it.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:16 | 4686026 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"The Russians are obviously not going to put up with much more shit from this tinpot junta in Washington."

 

sounds better, to me.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:43 | 4686090 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

For Lavrov to say those words . tells us the situation is spinning out of control.
Putin needs to sit pat right now. Kiev is destroying itself.They need no help from him .Short of a massacre in the thousands, he needs to do nothing in Ukraine.

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:05 | 4686146 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

According to my relatives in Kiev, young men are being rounded up in the middle of the night by the new regime and being starved in camps, though the purpose seems unclear at this point.  Will they be made to be soldiers, or just kept there to keep them from joining up with the Russians (which a great many have alrteady done).

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 09:10 | 4686163 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

What do you mean by young men ?
Just Russian ethnicity ?

Wed, 04/23/2014 - 08:50 | 4686110 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Mr. Lavrov has no choice, he has been pushed into a corner - F'd if he does, F'd if he doesn't.

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