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Martin Armstrong Asks "Will We Have Another 'Waco' In Nevada?"

Tyler Durden's picture


The Feds are gathering and have brought in hired guns. We are more likely than not headed into a military confrontation – the first since Waco. Keep in mind that Obama’s head of the Justice Department, Eric Holder now Attorney General, called the shots on Waco back then. He got away with it before – why not again?



There is a hope that if enough people show up the Feds will stand-down.

The likelihood of the Feds ever backing down is highly unlikely.

The Federal Government is severely disconnected from the people and views anyone who stands up to them as a criminal and domestic terrorist.

This is merely a dress rehearsal for the next 5 years that we face – a rising confrontation between the people and the government.


Source: Armstrong Economics


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Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:10 | 4690671 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

The Nevada Cattlemen have the best take. Can we go after Al Sharpton who owes more than Bundy? 


The Nevada Cattlemen's Association believes that private 

property rights are at the foundation of our country and our liberty, and we know that the rule of 

law protects those property rights. Our policy supports private property interests that exist on 

public lands, including water rights and grazing rights. We also support the continued multiple use 

of public lands, as authorized by law and confirmed by the courts. It is under this framework of 

the rule of law that our property rights and multiple uses are protected. 

The multiple-use statutes allow timber, grazing, wildlife, recreation and other uses to carry 

on side-by-side in a way that, as the statute reads “will best meet the needs of the American 

people.” Increasingly, we see the federal government placing higher priority on uses other than 

grazing. This not only violates the multiple-use statutes, it violates the grazing and water rights 

that are also protected by laws such as the Taylor Grazing Act (TGA). Under the TGA, ranchers 

have a right to graze livestock on federal lands based on historical utilization. While this property 

interest is complex by nature--given that it exists on surfaces owned by the federal government—

it is nonetheless a real property interest that is taxed and saleable. It must be protected. On the 

same token, ranchers who exercise their grazing rights are obligated to pay a grazing fee as 

established by law. 

Ranchers such as Mr. Bundy have found themselves with their backs against the wall as, 

increasingly, federal regulations have infringed on their public land grazing rights and the 

multiple use management principle. This is not only devastating to individual ranching families; it 

is also causing rural communities in the west to whither on the vine. In the west, one in every two 

acres is owned by the federal government. Therefore, the integrity of the laws protecting 

productive multiple use is paramount to the communities that exist there. 

The situation in Nevada stands as an example the federal agencies’ steady trend toward 

elevating environmental and wildlife issues over livestock grazing – in violation of the 

abovementioned laws and principles. Well-intentioned laws such as the Endangered Species 

Act—which are factors in Mr. Bundy’s case--are being implemented in a way that are damaging 

to our rights and to our western families and communities. In Bundy’s case the designation of his 

grazing area as a critical habitat for the endangered desert tortoise gave the BLM the rationale 

P.O. Box 310 • 285 10th Street 

Elko,NV 89801 

Office :: 775.738.9214 

Fax :: 775.738.5208 



News Release  




They needed to order a 500% decrease in his cattle numbers. There never was any scientific proof 

that cattle had historically harmed the desert tortoise. 

However, in accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our 

Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not 

condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands. 

Nevada Cattlemen’s Association (NCA) works hard to change regulations detrimental to 

the sound management of public lands in a lawful manner and supports the concept of multiple 

uses on federally managed lands and encourages members of the livestock industry to abide by 

regulations governing federal lands. 

Furthermore, Nevada Cattlemen’s Association supports effective range management 

through collaboration with resource management agencies and interested parties to achieve 

rangeland management goals for economically viable ranch operations and the conservation of 

wildlife species. 

With the above stated this case was reviewed by a federal judge and a decision was 

rendered to remove the cattle. Nevada Cattlemen’s Association does not feel it is our place to 

interfere in the process of adjudication in this matter. Additionally, NCA believes the matter is 

between Mr. Bundy and the Federal Courts. 

We regret that this entire situation was not avoided through more local government 

involvement and better implementation of federal regulations, laws, and court decisions. While we 

cannot advocate operating outside the law to solve problems, we also sympathize with Mr. 

Bundy’s dilemma. With good faith negotiations from both sides, we believe a result can be 

achieved which recognizes the balance that must be struck between private property rights and 

resource sustainability.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:18 | 4690701 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

...We citizens of Western Canada have growing concerns. If WW3 breaks out, the USSA will definitely annex Western Canada, (British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan & Manitoba), in the name of "Security of the American Homeland" to defend Russian and Chinese attack. Western Canada own a plethora of Natural Resources, but only 12.5 million citizens.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:20 | 4690726 Chief Kessler
Chief Kessler's picture

I'm heading to Nevada for a big circle jerk, anybody want to come?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:25 | 4690745 therover
therover's picture

Mirage or MGM ?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:32 | 4690769 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

5 years? God damnit. I cant wait that long.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:45 | 4690835 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

I hope same number of people will stand up for Bundy's as stood for Iraqi, Afghan and Pakistani innocent people.



Karma is a bitch

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:57 | 4690890 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

The Empire likes to raid and withdraw before the situation escalates. They view the fiasco in Nevada as a failure to execute quickly. They will get better at Blitzkrieg-type raids. The Militias will need to have excellent inside intel and be able to assemble at a moments notice.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:12 | 4690957 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

You're right.

Not everybody who assembled in Lexington and Concord were the renowned Minutemen. Those guys were a special group. Wish I were 30 years younger now.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:54 | 4691506 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

< Grass fed beef

< Grass fed tortoise

What do you want on your plate?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:08 | 4691613 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Libtards especially, but all Statists have been criticizing and demonizing Bundy over fines/fees.  Never once have I heard a libtard or other Statist criticize the government for their blatant misuse of power in this situation.  They also don't even question the authority of government to levy fines/fees.  These people are fucked in the head.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:27 | 4692069 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Goebbels never criticized Hitler and believed Hitler had unlimited authority to do whatever he wanted.

MSM is the new Goebbels. Simple as that.

MSM is proof large numbers of people have no conscience and will adopt whatever loyalty their career and paycheck requires.

Same can be said for those BLM agents rounding up those cattle, the other federal agents involved, the local sheriff dept, the local police, and the various hired guns.

95% of Americans would do the same thing, be totally loyal to the govt if their career and paycheck required it.

Hell, 90% are totally loyal to the govt without their career and paycheck requiring it.

And that's why America isn't worth saving.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:13 | 4691656 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

It isn't going to be your choice.  The answer is, Soylent Green.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:19 | 4692040 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Where is Lon Horiuchi???????????????????????  Eric Holder wasn't the only one with dirty hands at Waco, or Ruby Ridge.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:02 | 4691169 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

No! Fighting is what they want. they are tryng pretty hard to provoke armed conflict with the American people to justify even more of a police state. they do not fear anyone going toe to toe with their sociopath pawns. they only fear zero squads and whistleblowers.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:18 | 4691230 beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

They could easily have had a fight at Bunkerville.


They chose not to do so.


If it's simply about provoking armed conflict ... well, that could be achieved in a matter of hours. 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:31 | 4691330 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

If Bundy is right, then anyone can use BLM land at no cost, and no obligation.

I want his cattle gone so I can use the land for my own purpose, at no cost.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:34 | 4691351 DetectiveStern
DetectiveStern's picture

If I was living in America I'd show up. Unfortunatly I live in ENgland and we had our guns taken off us a long time ago.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 18:14 | 4692758 Flagit
Flagit's picture



Unfortunatly I live in ENgland and we had our guns taken off us a long time ago.


hows that working out for you?

Fri, 04/25/2014 - 00:59 | 4693972 Chief Kessler
Chief Kessler's picture

Bundy fest baby, no rules no taxes, no joke, thanks clive

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:15 | 4691639 lordylord
lordylord's picture

"If Bundy is right, then anyone can use BLM land at no cost, and no obligation."

Explain to me how the BLM and the federal government have a legal claim to land in Nevada.  Let me guess, the federal government passed a law giving the federal government ownership of the land.  Is that right?   Sounds self-serving to me.  Statists like you only show up when there is something to be stolen.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:41 | 4691418 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

"If it's simply about provoking armed conflict ... well, that could be achieved in a matter of hours. "

I said their goal is to provoke a fight to justify more of a police state, which obviously means they have to first be confident they can make enough people believe that they did not provoke the fight.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 16:45 | 4692408 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin&#039; Baltar's picture

Yes... provocations and false flags are a dangerous game for them at this juncture. They realize public trust has slipped significantly since the 90's. How couldn't they know? They have us all on record in Utah.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:13 | 4691657 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

But the provocation has to be handled carefully for public relations purposes. When you're going to slaughter scores of citizens, you first have to complete a few things. From the Waco massacre playbook, you first want to control access to facts so that none of the soon-to-be victims can present their side of the story. You need total blackout so that you can control the narrative. In Waco this was done by unnecessarily surrounding the "compound" and then restricting all access. After the Branch Davidians were shot and burned to death, they mantianed control over the area so that they could run tracked vehicles over the wreckage so that nobody could review the evidence of the military assault on women and children as paybakc for the deaths of their "comrades" killed and injured in the initial unwarranted attack. The government and their media organs then trafficked the narrative of the Branch Davidians as a "doomsday cult" and that they were "suicidal," followed by the repeated charge of child abuse, and children needing to be saved from these religious crazies. This narrative replaced the earlier, lamer, version that they were allegedly making automatic weapons. 

In Nevada there were too many loose ends and the narrative got away from them. They will almost certanly be back, but they have to figure out how to create the story that the Bundys had it coming for some heinous crimes. Property crimes are insufficient and petty disputes over land use work against the Feds. But they cannot forgive, and everything to them is a do or die confrontation where they are the good guys. Resistance is self-evident that the opposition deserves the most intense annihilation possible. 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:26 | 4691289 War_is_Peace
War_is_Peace's picture

Have I missed something?  The article makes reference to a five year time frame; can anyone elaborate?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:43 | 4691429 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

As the economy continues to collapse it's only going to get worse nationwide; police state versus citizens.

This is why every .gov agency has bought billions of rounds of ammunition, and why posse comitatus is dead.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:32 | 4690770 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

I hope Bundy is the straw that awakens a sleeping giant!

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:55 | 4690887 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

I am getting reports from people who were there, and from those that are still there. This will not go away. Bundy may be yet another sacrificial lamb, but a few more Wacos and a certain part of the people will wake up.

Y'all keep your heads down and your powder dry.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:36 | 4691060 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Comparing this honest rancher with David Koresh is insulting. He was a douchebag kid fucker. Find another analogy.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:48 | 4691099 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

So what you're saying is Koresh was imitating he beltway, no?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:29 | 4691768 migra
migra's picture

Koresh raped children. He was never arrested for it because the kids would never speak against him due to pressure from their parents. The governments actions were wrong. But so is ass rapping little children. I feel for the children whose parents took up with that nut Koresh.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:37 | 4692121 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Oh Migra, I guess you were there to watch the ass raping of children?

I don't believe in God, but I believe in your right to believe in God.

Either go watch "The Rules of Enagement"  or CNN.

But either way, shut the fuck up about shit you you have no idea about apart from that which you were spoonfed

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:56 | 4691137 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Honest question; are we sure about that?  If so why wasn't he taken on his frequent trips to town or his daily runs?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:19 | 4691699 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Local Sheriff investigated Koresh several times about the underage sex charges, never once arrested him for it.  Plus, if pedophilia should be punished by burning down churches filled with innocent people, there are hundreds of Catholic Churches which need to be torched.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:24 | 4691722 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

You should start here, with the lawyer who got all the (very few) surviving Branch Davidians acquitted when they were vehemently prosecuted after the massacre.

This lawyer's Congressional testimony should be mandatory viewing. Of course no punishment was ever delivered to the Feds who orchestrated the massacre.

The evidence suggests that the Koresh as pedophile meme originated in the Reno Justice Department to justify the overwhelming force approach adopted by the Feds on the ground. That claim appeared after the initial assault was a debacle. Previously the story was only that of ATF going after alleged automatic weapons.

Notwithstanding Koresh's sexual activities, was the remedy of immolating and crushing 76 mostly women and children hiding ina buried school bus the way to prevent these kids from being molested? A list of the dead is here:


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:51 | 4691492 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

His character assasination is already underway in the MSM. headline today "Bundy's shocking comments on slavery":

"GOP scrambling to distance themselves from defiant Nevada Rancher..."

Harry Reid already called he and his supporters "Domestic Terrorists".

Not enough giants left, we have crossed the Rubicon.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:11 | 4691640 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The endless lies about what really happened with the Ukraine are beyond sickening.   I stopped watching Tv a long time ago but the crap MSM news on the net is sickening.  Making Putin into Hitler and endless crap.  Bundy is getting the same treatment and lies.


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:32 | 4692104 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"sleeping giant" is a myth. There is no such thing.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 19:42 | 4693123 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

""sleeping giant" is a myth. There is no such thing."


...said some dipshit in DC, as Tim McVeigh rolledup up to the Murrah building in a yellow Ryder truck.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 23:03 | 4693748 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Good god what mind boggling stupidity.

There ya go folks, another loony tunes "patriot" thinking TM and a Ryder truck anfo bomb brought down that building ...and killing 168 children was some sort of "patriot" victory.

With this kind of mind boggling stupidity displayed by "patriots", govt has nothing to worry about.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:33 | 4690773 max2205
max2205's picture

Why not. Good question

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:34 | 4690781 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

"The Player's with Yourselves Club!"

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:57 | 4690898 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Mirage or MGM ?

Circus, Circus seems most appropriate -- given the situation.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:40 | 4690816 midtowng
midtowng's picture

The right-wing really messed up with making Bundy their hero. Mr. "let me tell you about the Negro" Bundy.

 You guys really stepped in it this time.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:43 | 4690821 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Christ what a setup


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:13 | 4690960 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Al Sharpton shouldn't have to pay taxes. It'd be rayciss to tax a good man like that!

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:18 | 4690989 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

That Sharp Ton. He one heavy weight...

Have he and Don King ever been seen together?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:33 | 4691050 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

R we talking about AL THE RAT SharpTongue????

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:17 | 4690971 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Cliven Bundy perfectly described the intentional, designed, and enforced transition from compelled slavery of a sub group of human beings to 'voluntary' or slavery by trickery of all human beings. Central in this is the redefinition of a 'person', the 14th amendment, and multiple contrived nation bankruptcies used as false justification.
Clear articulation that no one was 'freed', only further enslaved by different methods is crisp and clearly articulated by Cliven.
To say otherwise is to remove all doubt that you are a useful idiot or a troll cultivating race conflict.
To you sir, piss off!

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:21 | 4691002 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Brilliant. Whoever downvoted that is pissed off :-)

Very well said...



Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:44 | 4692170 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

In other words,..

The slaves were never emancipated.

The rest of us were enslaved along side them.

P.S. most of the slaves pre 1750 were actually Irish

Stefan Molyneux is the smartest man on the internet.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 19:33 | 4693082 Flagit
Flagit's picture

smartest man on the Cinder.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:45 | 4691370 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Slave uprisings end with 6000 crosses along the Appian Way starring Cliven Bundy in the title role. Also starring Eric Holder as Crassus and Harry Reid playing Pompey. Are we ready for this?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:38 | 4691817 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Question is, are they? Im surprised no one has tugged on Reid's leash, a blind guy could see the powder keg this situation is. Between this and Ukraine it almost seems like the federal government is hell bent on destroying itself. We can only hope right?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:02 | 4691938 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

What's the use of being a big fish in Washington if you can't use it to enrich yourself and your family with side deals? Over confidence and belief in your omnipotence are part of hubris, and you know what pride goeth before.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:18 | 4690979 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

Up yours and your Political correctness...

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 22:51 | 4692819 Drifter
Drifter's picture

I knew Bundy was insane when he demanded BLM turn over their weapons along with releasing the cattle.

Yep, idiot "patriots" picked a right wing nutcase for their latest hero.

Maybe because "patriots" are idiots too, like thinking they'll win the next govt confrontation and save Bundy's ranch, neither of which will happen.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:54 | 4690851 dryam
dryam's picture

I love how government trolls like you try to disrupt sites like ZH with nonsensical comments.

Sure, makes a lot of sense to visit a website & repeatedly post comments that are completely opposite of main themes of that website.  Differing opinions are one thing and are welcomed.  Your comments are not of the latter type.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:01 | 4690916 jomama
jomama's picture

believe it or not, not everyone with a dissenting opinion is on the CIA payroll.  crazy, i know.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:23 | 4691016 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar hates those guys too.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:34 | 4691357 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

I , for one, am getting damn confused with you getting up votes. Can you please return to your patented bitcoin thread hijacks?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:40 | 4691834 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Please no, the comments have been on topic for at least a month now and its been amazing.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 19:36 | 4693101 Flagit
Flagit's picture

the downvotes reflected poorly on his performance report, and the login info was passed to another infiltration recruit.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:27 | 4690733 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Tyler, even though you are attributing this to Martin Armstrong, how about a link to prove Eric Holder called the shots.

This is the first time I've seen that in print on this blog and would like verification, maybe others would too.

I've read many hints to this actuality but have never seen any real proof.


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:34 | 4690784 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Google it, asshole.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:00 | 4690907 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

All I can find is that in 1993 he was appointed by President Clinton to be U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia.  Apparently one of his first assignments was involvement in investigating the Dan Rostenkowski scandal....nowhere near TX.


Hey, lest anyone doubt, I don't like the S.O.B., but let's stick to the verifiable facts, please.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:16 | 4690972 Rainman
Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:46 | 4691091 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Good article, sum up; Holder transfered the Waco investigation from the Western TX District to the Eastern TX District because the Western District's handling of the affair was going under a Senate investigation headed by Sen. Danforth.  I'm not seeing the big problem there.

Apparently, Holder's first appointment to the bench was by Ronald Reagan....must have happened right before nap time.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:33 | 4691343 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Holder transfered the Waco investigation from the Western TX District to the Eastern TX District because the Western District's handling of the affair was going under a Senate investigation headed by Sen. Danforth.


That seems like a big deal to me. Of course it is the one of the methods that Holder uses to continue to SUBVERT THE LAW to this very day...


Of course you may choose to have Holder continue to subvert the Civil Rights of American citizens. You are free to be complicit.


But that does not mean that it is lawful or correct.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:35 | 4691365 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I guess fightingthepower causes one to have sudden outbursts of stupidity.

Read my post dummy, I have googled it and never come up with any real proof of his direct involvement.

The WaPo article doesn't give direct proof of orders being given by Holder to torch the place.

If you're going say that Holder did X or Y, then pony up the proof.

BTW, no one on this board has as much disdain for Eric Holder then me.

He is the most lawless AG in the history of the USSA.


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:40 | 4691410 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

stars of wco were billy bob and janet r, the dead lee duo...

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:52 | 4691477 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture


Janet Reno gave the order to light'em up!


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:37 | 4691813 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

From what I recall from watching the Congressional hearings, numbskull Reno was easily manipulated by the gung-ho flatfoots over at the FBI who appeared to introduce the meme of child abuse to Reno to get her to stand down and leave it up their wonderful (hysterical) decision making team. After all they had payback to enact against the Branch Davidians who had killed some agents in the initial assault. That humiliation would not stand. 

Recall this was an easy play on the cognitively disabled Janet Reno who had made her bones in Florida using coached "recovered memories" from children to wrongly prosecute the Bucky child care people, later proved innocent after being destroyed by Reno's witch hunting. She fell for it immediately and the Feds on the ground got their revenge on the (mostly) women and children hiding in the "compound." Clinton,, much like his protege Obama, was wholly unaware of anything and could not be accountable. 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:41 | 4691076 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Google prozac.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:54 | 4691131 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Fuck yea, no other choice.

Feed the Beast.


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:35 | 4690786 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Fifty-four forty or fight.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:46 | 4690842 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

that's what y3maxx is worried about

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:31 | 4691042 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Yah. This is what happens when the board, and history, leaves you behind.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:41 | 4690820 Mrmojorisin515
Mrmojorisin515's picture

already predicted years ago

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:37 | 4691067 markar
markar's picture

Funny. I live in Palm Springs and thought Western Canada annexed us.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:53 | 4691503 BC6
BC6's picture

The slow birds will be packing and going home next month.


Damn, sorry to say markar, but I don't miss the desert at all.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:10 | 4691630 par4
par4's picture

Tell it to the Queen

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 16:41 | 4692396 ugmug
ugmug's picture

We citizens of Western Canada have growing concerns. If WW3 breaks out, the USSA will definitely annex Western Canada, (British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan & Manitoba), in the name of "Security of the American Homeland" to defend Russian and Chinese attack. Western Canada own a plethora of Natural Resources, but only 12.5 million citizens.

Living near the border with Canada, if there is a US annexation of western Canada, the Canadians will most likely lay down and capitulate to protect their cross border shopping trips and medical appointments into the lower 48.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 16:53 | 4692461 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture


Not that this will be a ray of hope, but some of us have Loyalist gggg grandfathers and grandmothers...

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:22 | 4690734 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

Cows fart and must be eradicated to save the do deer, elk,....?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:33 | 4690774 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

If a deer farts in the woods and there is a camera to record it -

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:08 | 4691192 Cant see me
Cant see me's picture

good god man, that deer went all out

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:18 | 4691232 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

award winner

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:35 | 4691367 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

What about Mother-in-Laws?  Surely they contribute?

What's the definition of mixed emotions?  Watching your Mother-in-Law back over a cliff in your new Mercedes...

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:23 | 4690739 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Correct, if the fed's want to go after people who owe fees and taxes, then go after all the motherfuckers who owe monies...

 But I digress, we all know the answer to the somewhat rhetorical question...

All animals are created equal, it's just that some animals are "more equal" than others...

hedge accordingly.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:35 | 4690789 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

True.  Someone ought to point out to the "created equal" crowd that...

"Being created equal does not mean the remain equal".  IOW:  You were given some gifts and abilities (like and investment).  What you DO with them, determines if you remain "equal", or become superior or inferior to the rest.

No Fate, no gods (big daddy in the sky/spaceship).  Just Darwinism:  We make our own fate, and that of those around us.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:50 | 4690861 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Natural Law, a world created by God but administered by dickheads... Anyone on this side of the dirt should take heed and be aware!

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:51 | 4690862 LauraB
LauraB's picture

Being created equal just means that we all have the same (equal) rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  We are all equal under the law.  Justice is blind.  etc.  It does not mean that we should have equal stuff.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:10 | 4691199 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit.  Define "law" and ask yourself is John Corzine in prison yet?

Please, if you can buy the right people, the "law" can be whatever the fuck you want it to be, that's the fucking problem.

hedge accordingly.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:53 | 4690874 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I thought that Kirk prided himself on how humans had overcome their animal, Darwinistic tendencies.  

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:56 | 4691934 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Darwin is a disporoven, manipulative/manipulated dolt who basically published his grandfather's work anyways.

He gave predatory capitalismit's raison d'etre for existence.

Eat or be eaten, survival of the fittest etc.


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:39 | 4692138 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture


Really ORI?

I am truly disappointed.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 17:16 | 4692555 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Read, "The Mysterious Orgins of Hybrid Man". Darwinism is toast. 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 20:35 | 4693326 Flagit
Flagit's picture

and the recommended reading list for the Zero Hedge Book Club rages on!


last night i watched All Is Quite On The Western Front(1930), as was recommended a few threads ago.

great movie. its no "Coming Home In A Body Bag", but still a great movie. what i find amazing is that they knew war was for the benefit of the wealthy, even way back then. in 8 years Hitler would be named Time Magazine's "Man Of The Year", and the process would be underway yet again. 

Patriotism, seasoned with training. Baked in mud, 300 degrees of hunger, in pot-of-fear. This recipe produces not bread, but the Charred Crusts of War.


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:48 | 4690850 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

With all the Feral workers that owe back taxes in the billions and some getting bonuses despite this fact (no armed assault evident on these Feral workers) , it's not to much of a stretch to say that someone (Reid) wants Bundy's land. Look at mapquest or some other mapping site. The intersection at I-15 and 170 near Bunkerville has a spiffy, expensive interchange with no truck stops, gas stations or anything. 170 is a business loop with no businesses and just Bundy's ranch.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:48 | 4691468 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

+1 You're getting to the heart of the matter.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:04 | 4691591 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You must have missed the investigative reporting. Reid wants to sell the land to a Chinese Company to build a Solar power plant; and of course, he "wants" this, because they are going to piece him off; classic Reid crookedness; he's been at it for decades.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:29 | 4691740 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture


Reid, excuse me, the BLM, is selling Feral land to the Chinese at 10 cents on the dollar for that project. After all, we do "owe" them (heh). Bundy's land is private but in the way of Mesquite's, Bunkerville's and Reid's agenda.

Q: Why don't they just buy him out and waive his back grazing fees (if he actually owes any)?

A: Easier to steal it when you are backed by various high level Feral agencies and others.



Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:56 | 4690891 KickIce
KickIce's picture

The government can start with it's own house:


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:50 | 4691106 wackydog
wackydog's picture

They could go after the IRS employees who owe taxes -- and oh btw - you can return your bonus, too.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:01 | 4691549 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

IRS AGENTS WHO OWE GIVEN BONUSES, yes it requires caps...

These two first, then Bundy who actually produces something, can be fairly negotiated with instead of dictated too, you know like a fee man..

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:39 | 4691821 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Corzine, hello...Corzine??

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 20:36 | 4693334 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Despite non-payment of federal taxes you can STILL get a bonus and time-off (if you work for the IRS!)

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:08 | 4690942 dirty belly
dirty belly's picture


History Timeline of the Nevada Indians
The history and the way of life of Nevada Indians was profoundly affected by newcomers to the area. The indigenous people had occupied the land thousands of years before the first European explorers arrived. The Europeans brought with them new ideas, customs, religions, weapons, transport (the horse and the wheel), livestock (cattle and sheep) and disease which profoundly affected the history of the Native Indians. For a comprehensive History timeline regarding the early settlers and colonists refer to the
Colonial America Time Period. The history of the State and of its Native American Indians is detailed in a simple History Timeline. This Nevada Indian History Timeline provides a list detailing dates of conflicts, wars and battles involving Nevada Indians and their history. We have also detailed major events in US history which impacted the history of the Nevada Indians. Nevada is a state of the western United States the traditional homelands of the Pawnee and Arikara tribes. Other early tribes included the Omaha, Ponca, Oto-Missouria, Ioway, and Kansa. The Apache, Lakota, Crow, Kiowa, Cheyenne, and Arapahoe inhabited West Nebraska.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:20 | 4691247 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

and the moral of the story is:  Do Not Lose.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:40 | 4691831 dirty belly
dirty belly's picture

Yes, there are some serious issues with DENIAL with that statement.  Go ahead and check the mentality that backs that statement.  This is a question: "What do you call a coward with a gun?" 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:44 | 4691862 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

dangerous.  Because he's apt to use it out of emotional impulse without any reason or morals involved.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:06 | 4691606 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Can you trust the Government? Sure you can; ask any Indian.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:17 | 4690977 decon
decon's picture

Nobody has a "right" to graze on public land, it's a privilege they pay for.  The price of which is about $1.35 per AUM (animal unit month = cow or a cow w/calf).  You probably couldn't feed a hamster for $1.35 per month.

There's a huge body of solid research that shows the negative effects of cattle grazing in the arid west.  I would argue that cattle grazing below 4000' elevation in the southwest and fire suppression throughout the west have been the two most damaging actions perpetrated on our public lands.

People of the US all have an equal interest in managment of public lands.  Some little old lady in NH has just as much say about how public lands are managed as Clive Bundy.  These public lands in their relatively intact form are essential for the perpetuation of populations of large wide-ranging native wildlife like elk, mule deer and antelope.

I was born and raised on the public lands in the west and vehemently dislike the BLM, their shuffle butt bureaucracy and incompetent tacts but I also recognize Clive Bundy and his supporters as essentially public land anarchists and thieves.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:24 | 4691019 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

Thank you for a well thought out post.  Prepare for the onslaught of the mindless non-the-less.



Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:47 | 4691090 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

so far, just silent-votes. . .

I prefer Fight Club to voter-mind-sets, but

you can't always get what you want. . .



Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:30 | 4691323 markpower49
markpower49's picture

Don't you belong over at HuffPo or some such mindless fascist site?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:38 | 4691070 Overfed
Overfed's picture

You say anarchist like it's a bad thing. BTW, Bundy's family bought the grazing and water rights to that land decades before the BLM even existed. It was the BLM who changed the deal. Do a little research.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:39 | 4691073 skipjack
skipjack's picture

You should do more research before trotting out tired vegan nonsense -


In many regions, pastoralism and communal land use are blamed for environmental degradation caused byovergrazing. After years of research and experience, Savory came to understand this assertion was often wrong, and that sometimes removing animals actually made it worse.[2] This concept is a variation of the trophic cascade, where humans are seen as the top level predator and the cascade follows from there.

"I have been particularly fascinated, for example, by the work of a remarkable man called Allan Savory, in Zimbabwe and other semi arid areas, who has argued for years against the prevailing expert view that is the simple numbers of cattle that drive overgrazing and cause fertile land to become desert. On the contrary, as he has since shown so graphically, the land needs the presence of feeding animals and their droppings for the cycle to be complete, so that soils and grassland areas stay productive. Such that, if you take grazers off the land and lock them away in vast feedlots, the land dies. "- His Royal Highness The Prince of Wales (Prince Charles) from a speech to the IUCN World Conservation Congress[12]

Savory developed a flexible management system designed to improve grazing systems. Holistic planned grazing is one of a number of newer grazing management systems that more closely simulate the behavior of natural herds of wildlife and have been shown to improve riparian habitats and water quality over systems that often led to land degradation, and be an effective tool to improve range condition for both livestock and wildlife.[2][13][14][15][16][17][18][19] Holistic planned grazing is similar to rotational grazing but differs in that it more explicitly recognizes and provides a framework for adapting to four basic ecosystem processes: the water cycle,[17] the mineral cycle including the carbon cycle,[20][21][22][23] energy flow, and community dynamics (the relationship between organisms in an ecosystem)[24]as equal in importance to livestock production and social welfare. Holistic management has been likened to "a permaculture approach to rangeland management".[25]


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:55 | 4691123 decon
decon's picture

Savory's ideas are based on African plant communities and fauna, I was talking about western North America, different systems entirely.  African flora and fauna as we see them now are much older systems (100,000+years) than what we see North America .

Cow-like species went extinct in the lower elevations of the west about 12,000 years ago mostly because of the rapid change to a hotter and dryer climate.  Plant communities continued to evolve without cow-like and horse herbivory so they are poorly adapted to withstand those impacts.  All you have to do is look at pictures taken in the 1870's and pics of the same places now to see the damage.

Believe me, I'm not a vegan!

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:03 | 4691581 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

Decon,...You are missing the connection between rabbits, elk, deer, buffalo and bovines my friend. I do not know what drives your beef (pun intended), but your facts are lacking.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:49 | 4691892 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

That seems a little off if you ask me...isn't a buffalo sort of a cow like ruminant? I have heard there were many millions of those, indeed entire human cultures developed in dependency thereupon. Also, I didin't hear anything about the indigenous human cultures altering the environment to grasslands to support the herds of cow like ruminants. If there is something wrong with a huge docile domesticated creature that turns unuseable grass into life sustaining beef and dairy, I'm afraid I don't see it. 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 15:36 | 4692118 decon
decon's picture

Buffalo aka cow-like species were extirpated from the southwest below 4000' elevation about 12,000 years ago.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 17:29 | 4692608 Sean7k
Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:54 | 4691126 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

""There's a huge body of solid research that shows the negative effects of cattle grazing in the arid west."

Forget the west, try the entire planet. Cows are a walking ecological disaster, everyone except ranchers and everything except certain varieties of bovine gut flora would be better off if their population fell by 95% over the next decade. But that is not Mr. Bundy's fault.

"People of the US all have an equal interest in managment of public lands.  Some little old lady in NH has just as much say about how public lands are managed as Clive Bundy"

Therein lies the problem.

I vehemently oppose federal or state ownership of any land whatsoever, as well as public ownership of land in general. There is no easy solution to distributing ownership of land so as to maximize utility while minimizing harm, but I am damn sure the federal government isn't doing that and like all governments, is both theoretically and practically incapable of ever doing it. If it absolutely has to be publicly held, land should be held as locally as possible by those people with the strongest and most direct connections to it. No absentee landlords.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 13:21 | 4691262 decon
decon's picture

I tend to agree with you, the feds sure have fucked it up.  Local management scares me also.  I've seen how the state has managed their lands and it's actually similar if not worse than the feds.  I'm not sure what form of local management would work but keeping these lands unfragmented and healthy is critical.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 17:32 | 4692621 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

It has to do with how you raise cows. If you don't know anything about cattle, why do you comment?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:09 | 4691627 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It's not "public Land"; that's a farce. The Supreme Court decided in 1845 that the Federal Govt. couldn't grant Statehood, (sovereignty), to Nevada and claim to own land there at the same time; this was never resolved. But the decision stands in the record. The Feds. have no business there. And your "opinion" about cattle ruining land, somehow, is just that, your opinion; worth nothing.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:27 | 4691745 joe6px
joe6px's picture

You point out that the federal government charges a fee to graze on BLM land and accept the fact that an ex-post-facto regulation was enforced against Mr. Bundy's grazing rights (yes, rights passed from generation to generation).  Those grazing rights that were issued by the federal government in the 1860’s, before any BLM.  Accepting a federal court decision that is presiding over a case involving a federal agency, regarding the use of lands within a sovereign state - without any state representation, is accepting a conflict of interest on behalf of the federal government.  Let’s get some daylight on the issue of the validity of the federal court in this matter before jumping to any conclusions.  Just because a government body said it was legal doesn’t mean that it is moral or even constitutional. In the Bundy case the BLM, which is a management agency, showed up with armed agents and set up first amendment zones.  The mandate for federal action in a civil suit is to use local law enforcement to the maximum extent.  Armed federal management personnel?  First Amendment zones?

Your insinuation that an old lady in New Hampshire has as much say as to use is over-simplified and ridiculous.  There are stake holders that have more say in every issue that involves the public use of federal land.  Does Mr. Bundy have an equal say in whether a public park in NH gets new curbs and gutters or new picnic tables? No, it is the local stake holder.  In any case the new normal states that the appointed federal agency dictates “appropriate” public use, if any, unless you are a senator.  Doesn't that bother you?

Bundy’s issues with the federal government run deep and bring to a point government over reach, proper “ownership” of state lands, constitutional issues of federal government owning state lands, and suppression of constitutional rights by a fed agency.  For you to simply label Mr. Bundy and his supporters as you have is your right, but is also tips your hand as to your own level of understanding constitutional restrictions and your acceptance of your shackles.  Enjoy your serfdom.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:50 | 4691107 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

What about the deal the corrupt fossil withered old fart Reid made with the Chinese for solar on that land?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:11 | 4691638 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Apparently not enough people on this blog have read the text on that subject; it's an obvious case of The Feds. supporting one of their own; Senator Reid, and his private paid off scam.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 21:38 | 4693505 Flagit
Flagit's picture

well, lets just help that along.


this dosent even fall under a catagory of sepculation. some individuals in the comments to these videos have started digging into the people beind the compaines these land aquisitions are being conducted under.

Announcer: Stay tuned for the next episode, "The Incredible Shrinking Parcel" or, "Honey, I Shrank The Parcel Again."

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:51 | 4691907 LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture



Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not 

condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands.

Yes, well, the NCA seems to have failed with their mission.  They *should* advocate taking the law into the peoples' hands when all other avenues have been exhausted.



Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:11 | 4690682 franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

They cant do Waco style assault.  Harry Reid, his son and the BLM direcor have their fingerprints all over this one.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:18 | 4690717 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

agree.  but distant Bundy family members will start buying nail guns by the dozen

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:39 | 4690808 XitSam
XitSam's picture

They won't do a Waco assault on "domestic terrorists" because now they have kill lists and weaponized drones. This is the 21st century after all.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:46 | 4690818 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

It seems to me that these are two very different scenarios.

Waco was "OK" because it was the community headquarters of a cult. This fact allowed them to be demonized in the eyes of America. It was enough for most people to just let it go.

Bundy is just a good ol' boy trying to make a living. He will need to be futher vilified by being proven a racist or othe such nonsense. UPDATE: unfortunately it seems Bundy has served his bigoted ideals up on a silver platter by opening his big mouth. o_O

However, 1/2 of America thinks the government is getting too big and oppressive and thinks the Federal government has no business "managing" state lands. Harry Reid's business dealings are definitely part of the equation.

Oh, and let's not forget it is pre-midterm election campaign time.

Admittedly, it would only take a single gunshot to touch off a very bloody melee.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:56 | 4690892 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture


I viewed the autopsy photos of the charred, melted, unrecognizable bodies of the children at Waco.
If most people let it go....well....I didn't.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:08 | 4690932 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

How did you see those?

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:18 | 4690962 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

It's been some years ago but I imagine they're still online.
Just checked they still are. Search Waco Autopsy Photographs. I warn ya....they're graphic as hell.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:37 | 4691064 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

Thanks. My first search did not find anything, and I was surprised that the government would allow such evidence to be public because they kept the media one mile away the whole time and they quickly destroyed all the evidence after they murdered the cult members.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:15 | 4691664 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Here's a good documentary on the incident.


WACO Rules of Engagement


Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:25 | 4691022 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

New York Times dude.  This news organization grows sloppier and more unreliable with each passing week.  Chances are better than even (much better) that those quotes are innacurate or flat out made up.

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 12:56 | 4691143 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

those Bundy quotes are pretty "wow" inducing. . . hardly surprising the NYT gave him such word-space.

and hardly surprising to see "Mr. Paul" weighing in with a book and a tilt at the Repub nomination - though,

A spokesman for Mr. Paul, informed of Mr. Bundy’s remarks, said the senator was not available for immediate comment.

is a wry grin, heh.

"cowboys" vs. a black prezzydent - damn!  ya couldn't make this shit up. . .

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 14:51 | 4691908 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

BLM director Kornze also a Reid protege. 

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:12 | 4690686 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

I was perusing the blogosphere the other day and someone was waxing poetically about how much tranquility there was under Bill Clinton.

History books must be missing Ruby Ridge, Waco, 1993 World Trade Center bombing,...

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:17 | 4690711 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Don't forget the Atlanta Olympic bombing that got pinned on the wrong guy...the illegal bombing of Serbia....the Grade A cock-up in Mogadishu...

Thu, 04/24/2014 - 11:23 | 4690736 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

As a result of that illegal fiasco in Somalia during Clinton, Minneapolis ended up becoming Mogadishu West, courtesy of a bunch of religious do-gooders.

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