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Furious Russia, Downgraded To Just Above Junk By S&P, Proposes "Scorched Earth" Retaliation Against NATO Countries
Cyprus and Russia - what's the difference (aside from the fact that the former was a money laundering offshore center of the latter until last year of course)?
If you said one is a lackey to statist, selfish banker interests, and after having its economy thoroughly destroyed by the great doomed European sociopolitical (and pathological) experiment, came crawling back to its Eurozone masters, while the other couldn't care one bit about Pax Petrodollariana and the global central bank cabal, you are right. In which case it will also be clear why a few hours ago that joke of a rating agency, Standard & Poor's, which also earlier announced it was "affirming" France at an AA rating making it very clear it will no longer accept being sued for telling the truth and downgrading sovereigns or otherwise have its offices abroad raided, not only upgraded Cyprus from B- to B (please deposits your funds in Cyprus banks now: they are safe, S&P promises), but - far more importantly - delivered a political message to the Kremlin, and downgraded Russia from BBB to BBB-, one short notch away from junk status. This was the first downgrade of Russia by S&P since December 2008.
"In our view, the tense geopolitical situation between Russia and Ukraine could see additional significant outflows of both foreign and domestic capital from the Russian economy and hence further undermine already weakening growth prospects," S&P wrote in its report.
Moscow's MICEX stock index fell by 1.5% after the move. The ruble weakened 0.6% against the dollar to 35.977.
A further cut to junk status would be a big move, given Russia's relatively modest level of debt, according to Tim Ash, an economist at Standard Bank.
"But if the crisis in Ukraine deteriorates further, and we see sustained capital flight and pressure on the ruble and Russian markets further, then it is possible," he said.
Russia's response was prompt.
First, in retaliation to the downgrade, Russian economy minister Alexei Ulyukaev said S&P’s downgrade of Russia’s rating was expected by investors, won’t significantly change their behavior, adding the obvious that the decision to cut Russia’s rating was partly political, partly based on economic situation. In other words, entirely symbolic - it is not as if Russia has access to bond markets anyway, plus as we wrote earlier this week in "Why Putin Is Smiling At The Bond Market's Blockade Of Russia", it is not as if it needs them.
But far more importantly, and ahead of yet another round of western sanctions which appears imminent unless Obama is to look even more powerless than he currently is (granted, a difficult achievement), Russian presidential adviser Sergei Glazyev proposed plan of 15 measures to protect country’s economy if sanctions applied, Vedomosti newspaper reports, citing Glazyev’s letter to Finance Ministry. According to Vedomosti as Bloomberg reported, Glazyev proposed:
- Russia should withdraw all assets, accounts in dollars, euros from NATO countries to neutral ones
- Russia should start selling NATO member sovereign bonds before Russia’s foreign-currency accounts are frozen
- Central bank should reduce dollar assets, sell sovereign bonds of countries that support sanctions
- Russia should limit commercial banks’ FX assets to prevent speculation on ruble, capital outflows
- Central bank should increase money supply so that state cos., banks may refinance foreign loans
- Russia should use national currencies in trade with customs Union members, other non-dollar, non-euro partners
In other words, a full-blown scorched earth campaign by Russia.
Granted, Russian holdings of US Treasurys are not that substantial (and could be monetized entirely in three months of POMO by the Fed), and western financial linkages to Russia, aside from trade routes, are not life-threatening, but if Russia were to take the baton, and other BRIC countries, already furious by the recent US decision to not boost their IMF status, follow suit, then Obama's life is about to become a living nightmare. Especially, if that most important BRIC member - China - does any of the many things it can do to indicate if, in this brand new Cold War, it is with or against the US...
Finally, those curious what are the linkages between the west and Russia are, review our recent post on the matter: All You Need To Know About Russia, In Charts.
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And his historical record has developed over the decades to a point where it bears little resemblance to reality.
Hitler was bad? Maybe.
Hitler was the antichrist who ate babies for breakfast? Not really.
And a much better one than any of the Allies. While Putin is using Hitler's playbook in Ukraine, he may be getting set up just as Hitler was. The Zionists play a bloodcurdling game (the Torah is not about a vengeful god, but a vengeful tribe and they still play by the same rules). Still, we all get to read about the ignorance of people that fail to study history, but instead, accept whatever they are told.
Putin is not without flaws, but Hitler? Uh no. Not even close.
Hitler was superior morally and strategically to Churchill, FDR and Stalin. Still, he was outmanuevered by the zionists. The Putins and Obamas of the world are not playing the game, they are merely pieces on a board to be moved about.
Putin is a plutocratic despot. What's with all the useful idiots here crushing on a dictator?
Well, we have freedom of speech.
If that has changed, I'd like to know when that happened.
SD, you live in Belgium. which is in the eurozone. and are commenting on a blog which is hosted in Europe. Please try to keep track of the context
meanwhile, regarding the article... I don't get Tyler's angle about the police raids on the offices of certain rating agencies in France and Italy
oh, and Russia's sovereign debt to GDP is somewhere below... 20%, if I remember correctly. cheap, political shot from S&P, imho
Actually... my pingping says the private server is in Santa Monica, Marina Del Rey
cords:
33.9684, -118.457
and the second one is in, which is kind of weird... is located at Moffet Federal Airfield, Cummins Avenue...
that's federal... and there's a checkpoint before you get in.
suit yourself with your theory. fact is that you replied to a guy that was obviously talking about free speech in the US. and you replied out of that context
it would be the same if the guy was talking about food and energy costs, which in your case (in Flanders) are stable, or even decreasing
??? WOW!!
HELL NO!
PRICE HAVE GONE WAY UP!
Fruits and vegetables have already nearly doubled in 1 year!
And my butchers bill is going totally out of whack!
You've looked to the index he?
You're clearly also from Belgium so you should REALLY look into this and that will give you EVERY reason why you should REALLY avoid voting for the socialist next month.
They're just changing the index every 6 months to make it look good!
Vote NVA my friend, they're against changing those indexes.
The last change was by lowering the amount of sugars and fats that they call healthy thus, you need less food and less food costs less money.
Now I don't eat less! I didn't get that memo!
I'm perhaps twice a year in Belgium, and haven't shopped there since perhaps 20 years. voting socialist? eh, thanks, but no, never had this kind of leanings
NVA? you mean the New_Flemish_Alliance? A friend of mine has a niece there who sometimes gets me to contribute. I do it mostly because she is so damn cute. I expect she'll mail "Uncle Ghordius" soon for the EU campaign (deleted)
you say fruits, vegetables and meat? nearly doubled in 1 year? I'm curious enough to check and eventually come back to you
Perhaps you missed the "1st amendment free speech zones" setup in Nevada last week...
Just what I was about to say keyser! Check out the lawsuit in Hawaii at hilo where protesters have to give a weeks notice for a permit , and IF approved are given access to 1/3 of an acre to protest, on a piece of parcel that is prone to flooding. Yeah go 1st amendment!
That worked in the Twin Cities for the Rethuglican convention a few years back. St. Paul thought they had it made - moved all the bums out and polished up the place, set up free speech zones far away from anything that was going on to accommodate demonstrations, but I don't think they could mask the odor of sad desperation and squalor that permeates the place. The Rethugs had their meetings at the Convention Center, but wisely commuted to Minneapolis to stay and have their parties. While I can't say I blame them, St. Paul's business community was bitterly disappointed. That was not the deal. They'd been had and they knew it. Senator David Coleman lost his job over it (which really hurt, I'm glad to say, I could tell by his face). Minneapolis business might have been happy, but anyone who worked or lived in Minneapolis was not best pleased and probably held a grudge, as I do. I have to tell you, it was the most disgusting exhibition I have ever seen in my life. They were the most entitled, snooty, unaware bunch that ever walked the face of the earth. You couldn't get out of Minneapolis for hours at the end of a work day because of traffic snarls, and the power groupie floozies covered in buttons and slogans were crawling all over the place. One was hanging out at my bus stop and I had the almost overpowering urge to jump her, mess up her perfect hair, tear her perfect conservative navy blue suit and ruin her perfect complexion by rubbing her face into the sidewalk as I waited 40 minutes for my bus. If it ever happens again, I think I will give in to my baser urges.
"Cyprus and Russia - what's the difference (aside from the fact that the former was a money laundering offshore center of the latter until last year of course)?
If you said one is a lackey to statist, selfish banker interests, and after having its economy thoroughly destroyed by the great doomed European sociopolitical (and pathological) experiment, came crawling back to its Eurozone masters..."
imho this Tyler is suffering a spell of cognitive dissonance. in the same sentence: Cyprus's economy based on laundering money for Russia and destruction of said economy by the... which experiment? the EU or the EUR? I presume the EUR
meanwhile I remember two Cyprus banks which were stuffed up to their gills with Greek bonds going down... and a couple of specific eurozone countries offering cold, hard cash loans in a deal which involved a bail-in of Cypriot bank accounts on those two banks. I wonder what this Tyler would have written if the two Cypriot banks were just left go into bankruptcy, something that would have wiped out all acconts on those banks, be them from Russians or Cypriots or anybody else
Yes, but why were they stuffed with Greek bonds? Bad planning by the bankers... Perhaps.
And, why is Greece so fucked right now?
that's a very good question. why were those two banks stuffed with Greek bonds? or why are those two banks now for all purposes... Russian?
a lot has of course to do with... markets. specifically, a few megabanks peddling european debt - which had higher yields than US AAA debt - to US Money Markets down to every US Granny's Certificates of Deposits. and then getting cold feet and reversing everything when it came out they were utterly out of their depth, after believing their own propaganda that all european sovereign debt "is the same"
in my understanding those two Cypriot banks bought a lot of Greek debt when it was very, very cheap. for political reasons or in a moment when they thought they were at the bottom of the curve, or both
a classic case of "Hot Money" paired with Financial Alchemy and banker's bonuses based on future gains yet paid immediately. with polics icing the cake
Greece? well, I remember corrupt Greek politicians having a special deal with Goldman Sachs which allowed them to load up debt... without other european countries even noticing
seems everybody is forgetting the role of the Vampire Squid in the Greek tragedy
You're not alone.
Me too.
likewise, im rootin for the guy as well. you can forget about warbama, he's a lost cause
Putin, and peace!
Putin, and peace?
Really?
Wow.
The west are neo-con baffoons and Putin, along with the other BRICS and friends have a solid plan, a replacement for swift, for a non-American centralized internet, a central bank, trade deals by passing the US dollar. HSBC just named the YUAN as the most used currency in the world replacing the EURO. These plans have been in the works for a decade and they expected the paper tiger to behave as they always have - if all the BRICS drop the dollar - poof
I'm just praying that somebody opens a swift competitor so American serfs...citizens can open a foreign account and not have them rat back to the IRS. I don't have a lot but I want some place without the same capital controls that are coming to America. Soon.
"He is increasingly reactionary. He has no solid plan to get out of this mess amicably."
There is no exit. And that's because the West set it up as such: and for the West it will see its ability to continue to pressure Russia erode (as their debt loads continue to ratchet up).
The BIG PICTURE has more to do with the natural forces of regionalization (complete opposite of NWO, which I've argued against its likelihood for years).
"If thus keeps up his own people may turn on him."
Like in Georgia? And the dress code will be Orange?
Is Russia fucking around in Canada? In Mexico?
And a pinch for the nose to keep kids happy too.
Pinch in the ass? nah... This is why dad always drives with his right arm across the top of the seats. A firm backhand will quiet things.
Why do Dads hate wet willies when they're driving?
Banged mom before the drive?
What "market?"
Yep, S&P is simply delighted to be an obedient servant. Not that S&P would ever want to go anywhere near the truth, but look what being truthful did to Egan-Jones.
BTW, I think in another three months or so, Egan-Jones will be allowed their free speech privileges again. Good ol' land of the free.
Land of the free doom and hand outs.
S&P doing what it's told by its masters? Sounds like the U.S. vs S&P $5B fraud lawsuit may soon be "settled" out of court.
You aren't implying that part of the settlement contains a provision that S&P downgrades Russia?
And what measuring stick are S&P using..................
Fiat Ponzi, debt increasing system
They should be using a measuring stick on a countries ability to feed it's self and be self sustaining.
On another note
The school yard No 1 bully should think twice before bulling the 2nd and third in line..............they could end up being at the bottom of the heap...........USA and Europe should be going back to school...........and learn some lessons
Russia/China are not Nam, Iraq or Afgan.......to name just a few who are way down the bully list
Stitch that Bitches!
well... that's about it for economic weapons the US can throw at them.
Now Russia is also forced to react and whatever happens, it's our fault.
It's not even funny anymore!
I FEEL 100% LIKE WE'RE THE BAD GUYS HERE!! NO RUSSIA AT ALL!
So you are saying that it's more than half our fault just for being there, I agree.
Don't feel bad, I feel the same way.
That is the problem when someone who you don't vote for gets you involved in a fucking mess. I am not going to contribute to the cause, let DC finance and do its own Armedeggon, I won't be part of it.
Unfortunately we are all going to be a part of it one way or another. The erosion of your purchasing power will continue whether you vote for it or not. Put simply, it means that your economic power is robbed from you to feed this beast. "Your 'contribution' has been most welcome, patriot!"
I have been feeling that way since that ridiculous false flag chemical gas attacks in Syria. I don't mind being the bad guy every once in a while but I drew the line when that skinny ass in the White House wanted to team us up with the Al Qaeda bad guys.
This might also be a trap by the West to keep Russia occupied while the West starts it up again against Syria and Iran.
The Russians have lots of experience with a scorched earth policy and will stand up and bear the pain. This is war and it will probably get hot. fast. The West is suicidal.
We've got way more to lose than they do. And that's why we'll feel the pain much more than they will.
And also, let's not forget, those russians are way more nationalistic than we are! For them it's all about the cause!
Yes, the democrats aka communists have done a wonderful job of demonizing the US and ensuring there are as many groups hating each other as possible. We have no unity except our united hate in each other.
F' the communists here and abroad.
You mean you're not ready to die for "Mother Belgium" ?. Shocking, just shocking.
You must be seeing a different picture, cause it's one big party over here.
until its not
No.
Not suicidal, but homicidal. They, the so called Elites to not think they will die - the poor and unconnected will.
Like a cornered rat , they are lashing out ferociously and haphazardly because the inevitable is near.
I believe these last few weeks are indicative that we are in the end game.
This. The Obama administration is truly beyond the pale. Delusional.
"I believe these last few weeks are indicative that we are in the end game."
I think that this has been known for quite some time.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the Iraq war. Came to the conclusion that in the face of what could be/was readily seen as wreckless and incompetent behavior could be best explained/described as being born from desperation. The PLAN - The Grand Chessboard- was under great strains and threatened with collapse: there is one plan and one plan only. Again, this mindset is clearly demonstrated though this (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/04/16/privatization-ramp-corruption...):
PCR further states that he believes that the Ukraine situation has even deeper meanings:
"The Wes is suicidal"
But it wants someone else to kill it so that the politicians don't have to admit what a mess they made.
It's kinda like suicide by cop.
The Obozo administration forgot the saying - if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. All these threats and sanctions etc etc is not going to make any damn difference to Russia. Russians as a people understand and have lived with deprivations. Most of the western world have never experienced what the ordinary russian has experienced most of their lives, during as well as after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Gold anyone???
No really..... is there anyone out there that actually has gold for sale ???
if you want retail-level quantities, like up to 100 troy ounces of gold (Maples, Philharmonics, etc.), European wholesale dealers can still deliver to your precious metals dealers on very short notice.
can't tell you about "sovereign" quantities... that's way over my area of expertise.
Doctor says he coming, but you got to pay him cash.
Silver down , Oil down ...and Gold just positive
It's early and this is the long end crowd.
The crooks running the S&P can't still believe they have any credibility as an impartial rating agency and judge of investment risk. Do they think they have any credibility after so many lies ? They believe their word and opinions have value to others ?
They have zero credibility, especially for the BRICS. S&P is nothing more than another branch of the banksters cabal with their bag of tricks. These are acts of desperation from the west which will lead to a shooting war...
The desperation for war is reaching a level of complete psychosis. The collapse must be sooner than I anticipated.
I get the feeling like it's going to start on monday to be honest.
That was last monday, you should hear the thud any minute now.
Don't all the wars start in late summer or something like that .....................seem to remember reading it some place
usually August or September after the harvests have been gathered in
Wait a minute good Sir, let the Europeans have their Soccer World Cup first and THEN start a World War.
or maybe the minute Russia is iliminated from the World Cup,, that would bring bad loser to a whole new level.
Nope - they will do it on Friday when Washington goes home for the weekend. Did Congress vote on this war?
When the Berlin Wall came down in 1989, I had a searing mental flash of the number 25 for the next - even bigger - implosion. 1989 + 25 = 2014
Well, if the US really wants to keep bullying Russia and China, the dollar will be at par with the floor after the summer.
Sure, when it's there Obama can blame others but it's his sorry little black ass who caused it all!
They (US Admin) said they were going to Kill the dollar - according to Kyle Bass couple years back - is this the mechanism ??
well, it sure doesn't look likes it's by accident.
Pete vetoed it, said his wife would jump off the banks roof if it was.
hello
i dont want to defend anyone, but, according to my observations, politicians are always blamed, responsible or not. often between themselves. So i dont like when someone says: this politician is so bad and he's responsible for that, that, that.... IMHO politicians are all bad, and certainly as responsible as muppets, or as us.
Not according to President Obama, he has always said he inherited all the problems. Just like some impersonator held a news conference in Tokyo recently and tickled China pink with his statement that the US defence agreement with Japan included the Senkaku?Diaoyu Islands. However, the US remains impartial over the question of sovereignity of those rocks. President Obama inherited that problem too and whatever that impersonator said in Tokyo , has nothing to do with him, when it all turns into custard. lol
When the shootin starts, it will be time for another vacation.
IDK but in my simulators , whenever you do that to a country, they usually endup launching some kind of missile.
This is pretty much leading to war between Europe USA and Russa.... and its moving quick.
I call a "no work" strike in the west to stop this insane march to WW3. Effective immediately.
Have you seen the employment figures lately? I think someone beat you to it.
Did you want to go to jail for breaking the company contract?
I would prefer a "NO TAX" strike. Those of us who do not support a war that the politicians are pushing us into, should not pay taxes to support such action undertaken by any administration.
Those same politicians created and have now mishandled the situation (as they usually do) and if they want a war, let it be themselves and their families who go to the frontlines.
We'll co-opt the unemployed as a starter pak of millions
They will antagonize putin one step at a time till he loses his mind and either folds or goes to war with nato. They are working in concert to achieve that end. This is a game vladi cant win. I feel sorry for him. The man fundamentally desires peace with everyone. He just wanted ukraine to pay their gas bill.
To assume that Putin did not expect all this and plan for it is naive. It could be argued that he allowed the coup in Ukraine to occur as it would lead to just this situation and the eventual end of the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. The west has walked into a bear trap.
The Russians are much more analytical than Americans and their cohorts. If you see the quality of advisers around a US President you despair......female PhDs imbued with self-righteous ignorance
smart analytical guys vs various thinktanked evil warplanning masterminds who work for central banks, who, in turn, provide virtually unlimited resources for their foot soldiers, THAT iis also a consideration when determining who has the advantage. I'd love to see the brics stand up, but i doubt india and brazil will stick their necks out here
There is no love lost between the US and India / Brazil... This is going to digress to US vs BRICS very quickly... The US is trying to preserve reserve currency and petrodollar status by acting like the world's bully once again... At some point the BRICS will take the pain to bring down the great evil, the USSA...
I doubt they would saddle up and send troops and gear to fight on behalf of Russia. They will setup a swift competitor, separate internet, separate trade accords and non-dollar denominated trade deals.
That is enough I think.
You know that they are not his real advisors right?
It's all part of the pantomime.
Don't tell them that !
Not a view I share but perhaps you will be proven correct...... an idiot playing chopsticks on the piano long enough will eventually cause a grand master to lose focus I suppose......... although I am doubtful the Oreo-in-Chief could pull it off
this is assuming russia works a solution solo. If china steps up and the two officially form an alliance of some sort.. watch out. its a whole new world. significant history will be unfolding right in front of our eyes
And in the back of our minds.
I thought they had a name already ...... BRIC(n) where -n- represents all of the remaining resource rich nations that are completely sick of getting fucked over by the NAZIONIST Regime of Wall Street London Brussels et al...... No?
I wish I could include Australia into that n variable. However, Australians positively love being raped by the financier robber barons. I think it must be in our blood or something... Oh well, everyone has a guilty pleasure I suppose.
everyone is getting raped by the financiers, it is really just a matter of whether someone realizes it or not.
I think as long as we keep feeding China with 200 tons of gold per month. The Chinese will be with us.
Come to think of it, if we were out of gold, as long as we provide lands and investment opportunities to the Chinese. They will not cross us.
So what happens when the Chinese look for a distraction to their internal problems?
Russia and China are in a stronger seat than we do.
It's the one who has the most to lose who will panick first. And now, that's us.
And remember, we're the bad guys here.
Thats why this desperate gambit is happening,to stop them
before they get even stronger.
WWIII by August, before the financial mechanisms of the BRICS
are ready to dethrone King dollar.
Stop the world, I want to get off.
Your avatar with his stiff upper lip would be ashamed of you!
Just my avatar.Even he would have been less bellicose around nukes.
I have family all over Europe and would rather they were not
turned to cinders.
really infuriating is how jp morgan and the s&p are in the back pocket of the u.s. govt now. Madness!
YoU got it ass-backwards. US gov is in JPMs backpocket.
Hey Grekko, don't stop there. All .gov...
As Gekko said: "Greed is good !"
You hit the nail right on the head, this desperate gambit is to stop further cooperation/integration between the BRICS and the EU since TTIP is not getting anywhere.
Oh yeah the ttp atrocity, forgot about that
I'm glad you included war, cause that's where our commitment was.
EUSSA-NATO bitches have most to loose (and fear) and thus bark the loudest. If they really bite, the bear will chop of one of their limbs. So sad to watch these western nitwits act up when a little humility on their part would be in order. Things are heating up, more escalations are quite likely.
NO MATTER !!! MARKET WILL GO UP !!! THANKS TO THE HED FOR BREAKING THE MARKET... CONSEQUENCES WILL FOLLOW SOON ENOUGH... GIVE IT A YEAR OR TWO...
its on.
Just goes to show these notational companies are well and truly bogus; they are all sucking on the crony, baloney teat of Congressional cum US Oligarchy power.
Now we have the smoking gun proof that S&P is just a Carlyle/GS-ex NACP neo-con run type elitist front.
If the Nato/Us Neo-con game hottens up in Ukraine stand-off, it will put Germany's Merkel and Schroeder's Ostpolitik as well as Cameron's Ruski Oligarchy fed City, in a tight spot.
Eurozone is pretty much caught between two financial and industrial models.
Schizophrenian Sophie's choice imposed by US neo-con hegemonical paranoia!
tks S an P, the more people that poke the bear the better,
coz the more it gets poked, the more likely it is to lash out and rip the EUs head off,
which, as an Irishman, i would love to see,
@ribeye. ditto for this englishman!
cant wait for the elections, lots of Irish people will be cheering on UKIP,
You guys think you have it bad; this kettle of smoked shit we have in the US makes the UK and EU look like a kindergarten party.
@foxenburg
And a big ditto from this one!
I hope UKIP whipe the floor with the european elections
It was supposed to be a common market..............does not get a mention ...................ever
it's completely irrelevant if they do or not, then in order to get the UK out of the EU they don't need to win european elections, they have to win British elections for the Westminster Parliament
now that is something I'd open a bottle of champagne for: UKIP winning a majority in Westminster and getting the UK out of the EU
it's still mostly a common market, btw. the difference is that we continentals want it properly regulated, and conservative/liberal/globalist Britons want it globalized and utterly unregulated
call me when London-based megabanks will pay only banker bonuses as per EU law
If UKIP wipe the floor in the Euro elections, these things have a way of escalating inside British politics. It could easily begin a snowball process which will force the Tory Party to do something serious (as opposed to cranking up the Cameron PR stunts). Red Ed Miliband would be all over the floor because he and many people in his shabby Marxist/Socialist/Fascist Party are into the EU big time, but try their best to keep it under wraps. Why? Because the EU represents everything the socialist Labour Party want and strive for: remote, unelected, unaccountable big government and further progress towards international socialism a-la Leo Strauss.
Keep in mind that all this will be going on against a background of Nigel Farage ratcheting up the EU-anti and MSM being obliged to give him more air time.
you mean that in the case of a UKIP european parliament landslide Cameron and the Torys would revise their 2017 "elect us and we'll grant a referendum" promise?
fact is that UKIP had big problems gaining even one seat in Westminster
of course, the chance is there that the european elections won't be handled as a "anger venting zone" by the electorates. yet in the British case, I'm not hopeful
please, eventually give me an example for "remote, unelected, unaccountable big government and further progress towards international socialism a-la Leo Strauss"
I'll help you: just lately the (obviously elected) EU parliament passed a Banker Bonus Cap Law. is this a valid example for the above? Note that London based banks are not complying and very proud of how they are bypassing this law. resisting big gov? freedom fighters?
"you mean that in the case of a UKIP european parliament landslide Cameron and the Torys would revise their 2017 "elect us and we'll grant a referendum" promise?"
I have always believed that Cameron is not serious about quitting the EU. His various comments are just PR stunts to pacify the few Tories who hate everything the EU stands for. There is no British PM who wants to go down in history as the guy who pulled Britain out. As I've said on ZH numerous times, Cameron's gameplan is to negotiate a few repatriation of powers from Brussels to Westminster, big them up big time, then call a referendum. There will be no mention of the growing powers that Brussels is assuming for itself (eg: meddling in Ukraine and others too).
Cameron will support staying in, as will the whole Labour Party. Cameron & Co will call out the countless brigades of pro-EU industrialists/globalists/City Slickers who will all issue dire warnings of disaster to Britain's economy if we leave the EU. BBC & Sky News will act as mouthpieces for this barrage of relentless propaganda, which will attempt to show UKIP and other anti-EU people as extremists, isolationists and bad for Britain.
All things being equal, the British voter will succumb to the propaganda and vote to stay in. There will not be another referendum for at least a generation.
"please, eventually give me an example for "remote, unelected, unaccountable big government and further progress towards international socialism a-la Leo Strauss""
This comment of mine was related to the British Labour Party, run by a Jewish Marxist in denial who knifed his own brother in the back to become leader. You need to understand that in Britain, there is no model of Euro-style-socialism as you see it. We either get a Tory government run by banksters, The City and other big money or an incompetent Hard Left Labour government run by know-nothing buffoons like Ed Miliband, Brown before him and PR stunt man/war criminal Blair before that. Nick Clegg is just an intellectual socialist. Nothing more.
Please don't waste your time trying to convince me that the EU and Brussels in particular is democratically accountable. It is not, never has been and has no plans whatsoever to make itself so. THAT is a part of the EU strategy: to replace democracy with top-down authoritarianism run by an unelected political elite. More than 50% of laws being passed in Westminster emanate from Brussels (according to the Tory Party), yet nobody in Britain ever voted for anybody in Brussels and would unlikely ever vote for a has-been-Maoist called "Barroso" who was essentially dumped by his home country.
excellent comment. I have still hope that there will be a referendum, though
I won't try to convince you that the EU is democratically accountable, then
my general point (check my account) is anyway that a proper confederation can't be fully and directly democratically accountable... without becoming a federation
it's the same point that people in the US make when they are against the Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, btw
in order to even draft EU law, the EU Council has to give it's green light first. and who is in the council? Cameron, Merkel, etc.
fact is that Westminster is... I'm sorry to say... one of the laziest Parliaments in the EU. they could block a lot more, if they wanted. and made allies in the EU parliament. or at least in the Council. yet there it is, in many ways we all get the impression that we are politically incompatible
and that's the reason why I hope UKIP wins... Westminster
smacker
Nice post
the EU is an unaccountable facist hyper-bureaucratic tyranny.....
SCREW THEIR CORRUPT LAWS.....
The Common Market is a total sham,
Its nothing but a protectionist tariff zone.....
Ribeye
Great post
spot on
ribeye roasts well on the grill of logic; two brainless twots who sing "socialism is bad" all the while they sing "oligarchy capitalism is our enemy".
Do you know what you want ? A nation without a state and a state without a national framework?
A bunch of neo-tribalists you would make the Apache proud of you.
I love the way you hate everything except your own belly button.
History is about power; more appropriately balance of power between rival empires or rival social groups, within a nation. Always has been and always will be, whatever the anarchist dreamers n screamers may say.
And belly buttons do no generate that balance of power; just arm chair kindergarden logic.
Freedom has to be earned either with barrel of gun or, if you're lucky, with the ballot vote, provided you make that vote count by demanding the elected elites do what they say or face immediate removal.
And THAT requires a vigilant, demanding, reactive and proactive public, which is something the West is no longer.
We have become Rambo worshippers! Sons of delusion and easy solutions.
Wake upee call now!
WHAM! SLAM! DUNK! lol, this is epic
"Do you know what you want ? A nation without a state and a state without a national framework?"
I have to frame this question in my office
-----
btw, he writes "The Common Market is a total sham, Its nothing but a protectionist tariff zone....." which, if you think about, is actually a valid complaint
well, Ribeye, the problem here is the understanding of what a Common Market is supposed to be
if you want to generalize, continentals want a regulated common market, and Britons want a globalized, utterly open market
I'll make an example: continental consensus is that we do not want US (or otherwise) GMO food to land on our "common supermarket shelves", particularly not unlabeled
now the question is: who sold to the British public the notion that we wanted something that is not protectionist at all? The deal is between us, remember? Free flow of goods, capital, labour and services inside the common market. We aren't protectionistic among us. In fact, UKIP moans about the free flow of... labour
two years ago an irish businessman was sentenced to SIX years in prison for importing garlic from china and listing it as apples in order to avoid the EU import tariffs on garlic, which are just under THREE HUNDRED PERCENT,
not protectionist at all, is it,
anyone interested just google Garlic Man Paul Begley,
only a twit would roast a ribeye, and nobody roasts anything on a grill,
you say im tribal, as i tell a poster from England that i will be cheering for UKIP in the elections, yes, a very tribal thing for an Irishman to do,
But you are right, i dont like crony capitalism, which is what the EU is, wrapped in a blanket of socialism,
thankfully, the EU, and the Euro are both beaten dockets,
only a matter of time before they end up in the bin,
@Ghordius
Baby steps, Baby steps........take the Euro Parliment first
I take it from your comments you are a socialist!
Common Market would not pass laws on citizens.......
Regulation = corruption.............
You do know your posts sound arrogant and condecending like most continentals?
LOL
XAU XAG, I take from your comment... that you have little knowledge of me or of continentals in general
why should I be a socialist? agreed, in the UK some of the most staunch supporters of certain things european are from Labour. yet what about... the LibDems? Or actually among the Torys themselves?
yet on the continent, you'll find many supporters from both liberals and conservatives
name me one "law passed on citizens" please. let's do have once one case discussed. please
sure, regulation can be corrupted. yet not all regulation is stupid
btw, I tried to sound less arrogant in my comments. it's hard, believe me. I already have to concentrate to squeeze out my little English
all the best for your UKIP in the europarliament
Ghordius
I said u must be socialist because your previous post mentioned all the other parties except socialists! LOL
Lib dems are limp wristed wast of space and remind me of a bunch of hippies
Laws passed on citizens........how about all of them as they affect them us either directly or indirectly.........Try the working directive as a starting point (or whatever it was called) who the fuck does .Euro think it is to tell peeps how long in a week should they work when they travel to brussels pig farm, clock in and fuck back off home and get paid more in one day than many earn in several day?
Good luck on keeping your posts less arrogant you just need to work on the less condesending! LOL
I appreciate the language thing.
In another post you mentioned the GM crops, that is one thing we can agree on.
As far as UKIP are concerned they will not form a Government but cameron and Wallace & Gromit (labour) are just expecting a bloody nose, I would like to see them with cabbage ears, bloody nose, 2 black eyes and swallen lips.......things may then change.
Sorry for bold copied and pasted your name in and it comes bold and as it is a long post cannot be arsed to change.
Good luck with the Euro........I have no £ to speak of all in XAU and XAG
Too many shoulds there to inspire confidence in the message.
Somebody in the circle of money masters will not be delighted!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-visa-results-idUSBREA3N21O2...
Now there is something that should collapse.
They charge 20+% on their cards and money to them is 1% - F' them sideways.
This bitch is coming down. Collapse, motherfucker, COLLAPSE.
The happiest day of my life will be when we've got those DC pigs stuck on pikes outside of 1600 Pennslyvania.
You push people far enough, don't be surprised with the outcome.
You can have your party in DC. I will love to go hang out in the Hamptons and NY to see the squidly ones get stretched.
Maybe I should get started on the movie script for Pigs & Squids...
This was the first downgrade of Russia by S&P since December 2008.
You know, a few months after US-backed Georgia dictator killed Russian peacekeepers and tried to murder thousands of Abkhazians and South Ossetians and Russia said FUCK NO...
The New York bankers under Jakob Schiff cut off Russian access to Bond Markets in 1905 to make life difficult for the Russians in Tsushima and heralded the first defeat of a Western Power by Asia since the Middle Ages and building Britain's Asian Ally Japan into a naval powerhouse ready to take out the US encroachment in the Pacific so the US forced Britain to cancel its Naval Treaty with Japan and still got Pearl Harbour.
The War has been started - it is the USA determined to take out China by first taking down Russia. It is an Existential War for Russia just as in 1917 and 1941 when they were saved by the Japanese moving on Pearl Harbour.
This time Western Europe will have to cut free of the US Empire or face internal collapse. the German Public will not tolerate Merkel siding with the USA and Hollande will be toppled in France. This is a game that has been a decade or more in coming, it is not spontaneous and is on the same gameplan as 1914.
When you're given your military gear after being drafted
1. HEAD STRAIGHT TO DC
2. ?????
3. PROFIT
Schiff also hosted Trotsky in NYC while finalizing plans for the Bolshevik Revolution. Then Trotsky returned to Russia with $milllions ( of our tax money) for the take down. A century later Victoria neoBolshevik Nuland and her neoBolshevik friends in our neoBolshevik State Dept. do the same thing, sending $5 billion to get this war started. Same procedure, same goal. It worked the first time, this time it backfired.
neo noses of false ideologies.
Information travels much faster now.
China may occasionally stomp on the USA's toes but will for the most part stay out of this fray.
They are enjoying the spoils of capitalism for the first time in their history.
nope - China will join the other BRICS & friends to take down the US - it is a stated goal to have a deAmercanized world - we have arrived - the US losing its power and influence is throwing a tantrum on the world stage and the world knows it
Much of the world would like to see the US go belly up but those who look beyond their hatred understand the consequences of that collapse.
Do not let your hatred fog reality, poverty and hunger sucks - I know this for a fact and so does much of the world including China.
Wishful thinking but they will not upset their wealth train for Putin or anyone else.
'Me first' will always prevail with humans.
Fifty cents a day for forced work is not capitalism.
The capitalism they enjoy is the capitalism dollars of the rest of the free world.
China is a communist country sucking at the teat of capitalism, they fool themselves into believing they are not poisoned.
You are what you eat.