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Bitcoin Tumbles After BTC China Halts Funding Amid Concerns PBOC About To Get Serious

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Bitcoin prices tumbled almost 15% as Chinese bitcoin exchange BTC China announced it has stopped accepting RMB deposits to user accounts from a major bank. As Coindesk reports, Management decided to proactively halt deposits from one of the country’s largest banks, China Merchants Bank, after the bank posted on its public website that it would no longer allow its customers to engage in bitcoin-related transactions, and said essentially it would require all such businesses to close their accounts. Withdrawals, of course, are allowed, but as Coindesk goes on to note, that while the PBOC's 'official' policy on Bitcoin has not changed since December, this 'pre-emptive' move may suggest he PBOC would soon set stricter rules about how its earlier edicts should be followed.

 

 

As Coindesk reports, management decided to proactively halt deposits from one of the country’s largest banks, China Merchants Bank, after the bank posted on its public website that it  would no longer allow its customers to engage in bitcoin-related transactions, and said essentially it would require all such businesses to close their accounts.

A rough translation of BTC China’s Weibo post reads:

“Due to a notice issued by China Merchants Bank, BTC China, out of consideration for user security and stabilization operations, decided to suspend the credit of accounts with RMB.

For subsequent updates, please pay attention to our website and Twitter, thank you again for your interest and support of BTC China.”

BTC China CEO Bobby Lee said his company had not yet any direct notifications from any of its banking partners, but was ready to act should such information arrive. Apart from the China Merchants Bank website posting, which did not specify any exchange by name, no other banks have stated their intentions as yet.

This followed reports last week that financial institutions were preparing to sever links with bitcoin exchanges, after closed session meetings with People’s Bank representatives.

 

...

 

The PBOC itself has continued to deny that it will ban bitcoin outright, though it has not made any public statements about how it intends to restrict digital currency use in the country.

 

...

 

The meetings were reportedly more grave in tone than on previous occasions, suggesting the PBOC would soon set stricter rules about how its earlier edicts should be followed. As well as preventing users from funding their bitcoin exchange accounts, the new guidelines could eventually limit their ability to withdraw from bitcoin and litecoin into yuan as well.

 

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Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:29 | 4701369 Matt_Master
Matt_Master's picture

Fonestar - we have a problem...lol!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:34 | 4701384 agent default
agent default's picture

Fonestar is busy.  He is buying the dip.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:36 | 4701392 Stackers
Stackers's picture

The move was a big yawn on a technical basis. It's been bouncing off $500 resistance for a while now.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:41 | 4701404 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

I was gonna buy $1500 worth when it was around 10 bucks. I couldn't find a way do do it without giving away all my personal info.  Missed the boat, but I think I may get another shot at it.  

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:58 | 4701441 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Don't listen to me, but at these prices btc is a buy. I am starting to accumulate and hoard.

Ever done international transactions? You know how you get hammered by the banks? Exchange rates, fees etc? Enter btc. Cut out all third party interlopers. This concept is too incendiary for simple minds to fathom. It's simplicity almost makes it seem unrealistic. Just need faith to build, and ma and pa will one day be using this tech. The Kenyan and his ilk will be left in the dust with their cronies/masters.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:16 | 4701488 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I won't listen to you.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:06 | 4701657 CH1
CH1's picture

Oh no! Bitcoin is dead!

AGAIN!!!

I think we're at 14 deaths now.

This time for sure?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:19 | 4701716 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Just how many lives does bitcoin have, anyway? Obviously rather more than a cat, if it's died 14 times already.

But does it have as many lives as two cats? Three?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:27 | 4701743 spine001
spine001's picture

The problem for bitcoin's survival right now is that at 500 the cost of electricity for providing the computer power that supports the network is way above the payment in transaction fees and mined bitcoins given the increases in mining difficulty. 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:24 | 4701894 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Self-adjusting. If mining is unprofitable, miners drop out and the difficulty drops. Then it's profitable again. The self-adjusting just takes a little time. Next question?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:49 | 4701961 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Bitcoin???

Yugos, 8-tracks, rotary phones.......

A novelty item, like "owning" part of Green Bay.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:52 | 4701972 fonestar
fonestar's picture

OMG!!!

 

fonestar waits patiently for decaweeks for a Bitcoin article, turns his back for five minutes and wtf?

 

BITCOIN!!  SATOSHI WE LOVE YOU!!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:10 | 4702031 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I gotta admit, you're one of the most persistent pumpers I've ever run across. What have you got to say to everyone who took your advice and bought at a thousand bucks...bagholders?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:14 | 4702043 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar would first say, "fuck you" and then fonestar would say,  

"BUY MOAR BITCOIN!!"

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:17 | 4702055 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Just what I'd expect from a psychopath.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:18 | 4702058 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar is the biggest Bitzealot on this virtual planet.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:21 | 4702236 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

http://www.coindesk.com/price/

 

Check the "1 year" or "all" chart.

 

It's like a biotech "penny stock".

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 08:03 | 4703382 wallstreetapost...
wallstreetaposteriori's picture

oh nevermind... I thought you posted that you were the biggest pole smoker on this virtual planet.  My mistake.  Just for enterainment...

https://www.youtube.com/user/weihrauchfan1999/feed

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:16 | 4702052 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

nmewn

It's all good, I bought them knowing full well they are volatile.  BTC is a good speculation and has certain features that I like.  And, it does have a genuine possibility of spiking higher.  It's an asset class, volatile though it is.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:23 | 4702070 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Bitcoin is ONLY credible as an investment (short term).

Buy low,

Sell high.

IF it's available to you while still high.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:25 | 4702076 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Just BTFBitD!!

Buy low, get high with Satoshi!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:00 | 4702184 nmewn
nmewn's picture

DoChen,

I can't stand in the same room with fonestar, so I won't...he's obviously insane, in my opinion.

You're a grown man and can decide for yourself. As far as I'm concerned its not an asset class at all as nothing backs it but faith in an already vulnerable system and it can't be held (its really just a Trojan Horse tryout for electronic money-labor/credits but whatever) and the only possible use I would ever have for it, is transferring funds short term overseas to an anonymous account, to be transferred again to another until muled to me.

To each his own, be careful bruh.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:23 | 4702239 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

It is cool, bro.  I rarely make big bets.  It has taken me decades to get where I am in Au holdings.

It is possible that fonestar is jacking with us, nmewn...

;-)

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:55 | 4702291 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its also possible he's not then as well, isn't it? I've never found someone who speaks of himself in the third person to be trustworthy or sane. Why would anyone do that?

It means he's dead inside to me. I don't want anything to do with him.

Conversely, maybe thats his game, if he's trying to drag down BitCoin with his antics...either way, its deception.

Hey, knock yourself out, free world and all.

Seeya.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 00:11 | 4702930 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar is managed by PAL.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:50 | 4702278 Seer
Seer's picture

"its really just a Trojan Horse tryout for electronic money-labor/credits but whatever"

I think that this needs to come out of the parenthesis!

It's really like this, the spooks and goons are strategizing for any postions that the peons are going to take: and let's face it here, none of us are really a threat to move any currency markets.  They've got their high-tech boys filtering, pattern-matching and capturing ALL electronic communications.  And in a neighborhood near most they've got the boots-on-the-ground types sniffing here and there (though mostly looking for big movements because they don't have the ability to really do far-ranging sweeps).

I don't see myself ever standing up to the point of encountering a last-stand shootout over a crypto-currency issue, nor PMs.  My wife and my land?  Have to get back to you on that, I think that this wire is hot...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:05 | 4702313 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Every wire is hot on ZH...lol.

When deception becomes a normal way of existence, who's to say that the UPS driver who just got shot wasn't a spook and gunned down, deservedly so?

They breed the paranoia & suspicion, so why not give them mayhem and see if they can stand the disorder? ;-)

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:53 | 4702167 LM
LM's picture

What about the people that bought gold and silver near their highs per the advice of gold and silver pumpers?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:07 | 4702205 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Those pumpers share my disdain but if you look back I was never one of them. This is not a sprint, its a marathon. The sooner you understand that the better off you'll be.

The only "pumping" I EVER ENGAGE IN is telling people, once in hand, no one knows you have it (unless you tell them) as it should be.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:34 | 4701919 BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

The difficulty adjusts. As non-profitable miners leave, the cost of mining goes down and network equalizes. The trick is that Bitcoin mining has never been very profitable, unless you HOARD the coins and don't sell them for another year or two...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:32 | 4702099 fonestar
fonestar's picture

YES!

Bitcoin mining price hysteresis.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:54 | 4701981 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It looks like we will see Bitcoin in the $300's this week!

Get back and load up those virtual dump trucks at these levels!  fonestar will sell out his whole damned family to get more che@p c0inz now!  fonestar sell you all out!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:55 | 4702289 Seer
Seer's picture

"fonestar sell you all out!"

Does that mean you, or does it mean we all depart?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:16 | 4701493 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Just received this from PayPal, after completing the transaction yesterday:

"You asked us to transfer $XXX.00 USD from PayPal to your bank account, and we're processing it now. It usually takes 3-4 business days for transfers like this to go through, so you should see the money in your bank account by May 1, 2014."

Along with the interloper fees, the interloper "float" will also be history.

These alone are reason enough for the end of money & banking as we know it, to say nothing of the fact that the true potential of crypto-currencies hasn't even been glimpsed yet, much less achieved.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:38 | 4701775 Ayr Rand
Ayr Rand's picture

When Bitcoin exchanges no longer require any dealings with banks (e.g., wire transfers into accounts), then the value of bitcoin may recover. Until then, the name of the game is "CAPITAL CONTROLS, BABY!" In other words, the central banks holds the reins. 

If any exchanges accept PayPal or credit cards, or anything else not involving a central bank, let me know. All wire transfers in the US are regulated by the Fed. 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:59 | 4701993 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Capital controls are useless against the Bitcoin protocol.  Bitcoin's whole purpose is to evade capital controls.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:12 | 4702036 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

fonestar wrote:

"Bitcoin's whole purpose is to evade capital controls."

I would not know if that were the whole purpose, but as ZH-er "CrashisOptimistic" pointed out, that may wind up being its greatest purpose.  I can access my BTC in two ways now whenever I go to Peru.

Now I just have to find someone to accept it who has stuff I want there (gold maybe?), smile,,,


Sun, 04/27/2014 - 22:22 | 4702710 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

ok, here's an exchange that is fully anonymous, and doesn't require a central bank:

www.localbitcoins.com

 

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 00:13 | 4702935 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Buy, sell and pump with fonestar on localbitcoins.com!

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 00:25 | 4702953 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

no, not sell!

only buy, and then buy some more!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:44 | 4701798 Seer
Seer's picture

"These alone are reason enough for the end of money & banking as we know it, to say nothing of the fact that the true potential of crypto-currencies hasn't even been glimpsed yet, much less achieved."

I'd had this conversation with a bunch of software engineers and scientists over 12 years ago.  We all got that "who farted?" sense when we realized that this was a strong possiblity- most of our funding was from a BIG bank!

It's all a two-part thing.  As an investment I wouldn't touch it.  As a transaction piece it has plenty of merit, though most of that would get watered down with various parties needing to provide traceability for backing out transactions.  As a blackmarket device it rocks, which is likely why it's doomed for acceptance in the mainstream (TPTB need full control of/over everything).

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:37 | 4701505 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Get in early on this stable alternative currency before it's too late!*

 

*Don't buy into get rich quick schemes that have already gone bust several times.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:57 | 4701988 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It's the dollar that is not stable dumbass!

Bitcoin is the most stable, strong and awesome currency in mankind's history!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:25 | 4702077 crash commando
crash commando's picture

Like stocks?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:38 | 4702120 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Hey XenoFuck , what are you talking about there ? Cyprus bank accounts ?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:06 | 4702018 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Don't listen to me, but at these prices btc is a buy. I am starting to accumulate and hoard.

That is absolutely correct hot sauce technician.  Bitcoin is a buy at any fiat price level because debt-based fiat is mathematically doomed.  BTW, interesting that you are a hot sauce technician because fonestar's PAL started off as a locust abortion technician before getting into network technicianing.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 23:01 | 4702801 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

BTC's central problem is their central missed opportunity: they should have provided for complete anonymity of Bitcoin transactions.

If Bitcoins could be used without showing who the users were ['washed'] then their popularity would skyrocket.  As it is, governments can trace each bitcoin. That allows the Chinese gov't and others to interfere; something they would be powerless to do with real and complete anonymity.

If a New Bitcoin [NBC] is ever constructed, the total anonymity of both spenders and receivers [buyers and sellers] must be guaranteed. Anonymity must be paramount. That will make government meddling irrelevant and impotent.  

Also, the NBC supply should be in the neighborhood of one billion New Bitcoins.  They should be easily divisible into centi-NBC's [one-hundredth of an NBC], mille-NBC's [1/1000th], micro-NBC's [1/1,000,000th], etc., to keep the NBC value from getting too high, making transactions clumsy and unweildy; exactly like a stock split.  That way, there will be plenty of NBC's to go around the world.  Taxes would be forced to revert to land taxes, like they were in the 1780's, because anything else could be picked up and moved out of governments' reach.

...just a couple suggestions, from someone who doesn't know much — but from someone who does know that anonymous transactions have immense value in today's world.  And even more, in the world of the future.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:58 | 4701442 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Don't listen to me, but at these prices btc is a buy. I am starting to accumulate and hoard.

Ever done international transactions? You know how you get hammered by the banks? Exchange rates, fees etc? Enter btc. Cut out all third party interlopers. This concept is too incendiary for simple minds to fathom. It's simplicity almost makes it seem unrealistic. Just need faith to build, and ma and pa will one day be using this tech. The Kenyan and his ilk will be left in the dust with their cronies/masters.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:58 | 4701831 Seer
Seer's picture

At best it's a transaction system for those still in the System.

"ma and pa will one day be using this tech."

There are 7+ billion humans on the planet.  Most don't have electricity, let alone Internet...  And for those that do you have to ask the question: does this give more or does it give less control for the likes of the NSA?

"Cut out all third party interlopers."

Is it the "interlopers" or is it the fees that are the issue here?

When debit cards first started appearing any theft or bad transactions were swallowed by the customer.  Later on the finanicial insitutions started swallowing all of it, and you can sure that there's a cost there, a cost, much like with the initial arrangement, WILL appear on the scene somewhere with crypto-currencies/cum-transaction mechanisms.

Despite what others here might think of my postion, I do believe that technology has a place, it's just that I don't believe it should ever get a free pass, and I also don't believe that it can solve every "problem" (especially given that we humans tend to improperly define problems to start with).

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:02 | 4701450 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Local Bitcoins is your best bet. Straightforward bank transfer

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:17 | 4701479 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

You can use https://localbitcoins.com/ to find people in your area who will sell you BTC for CA$H, no trails like using a bank or an exchange.  I bought mine (twice) from a local at, of course, Starbucks.

But, lots of people do not like Bitcoin because of volatiltiy.  Tatyana Shumway does not like silver, I am not an expert, but I did want to present a case that is not bullish:

"BEARISH Column on Silver"

http://goo.gl/y2Dvfg

***

Gold miners are (mostly) losing money!  My first crack at studying them:

"Gold Mining Companies"

http://goo.gl/evVrDA

I'll stick with the gold itself, thank you...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:51 | 4701603 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Silver and gold are money because they have intrinsic value.   Bitcoin is a currency because its value is fiat - by decree.  At least in bitcoin's case the value is created on supply/demand constraints, whereas the dollar is used as a monetary policy tool as much as it is used as a currency.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:07 | 4701667 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

bank transfer?  isn't the point of btc to avoid the whole banking thing?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:12 | 4701679 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Bitcoin has intinsic value because of the utility of its payment network which allows transfer of value point-to-point anywhere in the world like email. It also makes intermediaries optional. This "use value" is intrinsic to it.  Even those who think Bitcoin wont grow from here have to admit that sending money like email is better than the expensive wire systems in place today.

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:32 | 4701748 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

That isn't intrinsic, that is percieved.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:01 | 4702000 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Everything is perceived. 

fonestar is both a dork and a wave.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:19 | 4702061 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hmm!  That's a statement that will require some thought to process.  But, I promise not to overthink it.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:27 | 4702085 crash commando
crash commando's picture

Is math intrinsic or percieved?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:30 | 4702091 Haole
Haole's picture

<crickets>

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:46 | 4702147 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

math is a language which can be perceived. It can also carry information which has intrinsic value. So math is both.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:43 | 4702140 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

There is only one thing that is real to you . And that is your perception. Everything you see / smell / beleive / touch is perceived by you and only by you. It is what defines your reality that only you live in.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:51 | 4702162 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

The network is what has the value. The 'bitcoin' could be called 'shitcoin' and if the NETWORK banned by decree the exchange of all other currencies/value units, the shitcoin would still have a dollar value, but only because of monopoly activity. Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value.

And doesn't whoever controls the flow of information control the network? If all else fails they can always record your keystrokes. Gold and silver passed hand to hand or through audited intermediaries. Intrinsic value + confidentiality + portability + a network like Bitcoin for trading grains of gold electtronically = the ultimate money.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:00 | 4702182 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

The only problem with that is counterparty risk. Who holds the grains of gold ? Gold's value cannot be transported over an ethernet cable or a fibre optic link. If you create a system where something like bitcoin represents the value of something physical like gold you open up couterparty risk - who holds the gold ? How is it moved from country to country ? Who pays for the transport and for the constant auditing , fraud prevention , the storage and the security ? Bitcoin is a far superior wealth transfer mechanism as it already stands. Bitcoins require energy to create , the more energy that is thrown at creating them - the harder they become to create and vice- versa. A perfect wealth transfer mechanism for our new digitised age.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:00 | 4702302 Seer
Seer's picture

"Even those who think Bitcoin wont grow from here have to admit that sending money like email is better than the expensive wire systems in place today."

PayPal does that.

System that I was involved with made PayPal (at the time- it was gaining traction) look like something by a child.  We were a threat to banking at the time, PayPal apparently wasn't...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 22:40 | 4702752 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

either that, or your guys didn't pay off the right people. what system were you building, if i may ask?

i wouldn't agree that paypal fills the need that bitcoin is aiming for, and here's why:

1) paypal skims 2-3% of the payment

2) chargeback / fraud risk

3) paypal can make arbitrary holds on your money ("rolling reserves" 90-days, "transaction reviews", etc)

4) paypal can decide to freeze your account any time they want

5) transferring funds to your bank account takes days

all of these issues are eliminated with bitcoin.

most of my income comes from paypal, about $150K in sales per month, so i'm very familiar with paypal. i like paypal, and they've come a very long way from where they were 10 years ago. but, bitcoin has them beat, hands down!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:17 | 4701706 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Fiat is by government decree. Tell me where exactly bitcoin is a government decreed or mandated currency, or for that matter the 200 altcoins and counting. These are free market monies, and as all Austrians should know markets always win in the end.

 

Go back to school

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:30 | 4701750 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

The word fiat is not defined as "by government decree" only "by decree".

Read a book.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:36 | 4701768 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Soul Glow     The word fiat is not defined as "by government decree" only "by decree".

Read a book.

--Andyou should know, the government has decreed bitcoin to be an asset, not currency. Read the law.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:42 | 4701787 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I don't give a fuck what the government says. 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:45 | 4701799 Skin666
Skin666's picture

From Wikipedia:

 

Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. The term fiat currency is used when a fiat money is used as the main currency of the country. The term derives from the Latin fiat ("let it be done", "it shall be").[1]

 

From Investopedia:

Definition of 'Fiat Money'

Currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, but is not backed by a physical commodity. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand rather than the value of the material that the money is made of. Historically, most currencies were based on physical commodities such as gold or silver, but fiat money is based solely on faith. Fiat is the Latin word for "it shall be".

 

Need I say more?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:52 | 4701815 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Read a real dictionary.

From Websters -

1)  an official order given by someone who has power : an order that must be followed

2)  a command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort

3)  an authoritative determination

4)  an authoritative or arbitrary order

So nowhere in the definition is the word government used.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:09 | 4701856 Skin666
Skin666's picture

That's the definition of Fiat. We are talking about Fiat Money here moron. Try again.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:31 | 4701912 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Webster's definition of fiat money -

money (as paper currency) not convertible into coin or specie of equivalent value

Once again the word government is absent.  Shall I keep smashing your face into the concrete or are you going to tap out, Space Monkey?  

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:40 | 4701931 Skin666
Skin666's picture

money (as paper currency) not convertible into coin or specie of equivalent value

 

That is not a very good definition friend. According to this defnition electronic dollars are not fiat either as they are not made from paper. If bitcoin is also an electronic currency, then it cannot be Fiat either.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:43 | 4701940 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

When we use the term paper I think it is implied that digital counts.  And not convertable into coin implies gold.  

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 05:42 | 4703195 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

People wrap themselves around the axle over the term fiat, meantime fractional reserve eats their lunch. Literally...

 

Before the Federal Reserve the US Dollar was still a fiat currency...even when it was backed or partially backed by gold and silver.

 

Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law.[Full stop]

 

Doesn't matter if it's backed by gold, silver or not. The US Dollar was deemed the currency of the land by fiat(law).

 

Section 20 of the Coinage Act of 1792:

 

SEC. 20. And be it further enacted, That the money of account of the United States shall be expressed in dollars or units, dismes or tenths, cents or hundredths, and milles or thousandths, a disme being the tenth part of a dollar, a cent the hundredth part of a dollar, a mille the thousandth part of a dollar, and that all accounts in the public offices and all proceedings in the courts of the United States shall be kept and had in conformity to this regulation.

 

Now, does a Fractional Reserve Note meet that definition(US Dollar)? I think not...

 

 

On 6 July 1785, Congress unanimously "Resolved, That the money unit of the United States be one dollar.”32 Almost another year elapsed until, on 8 April 1786, the Board of Treasury reported to Congress on the establishment of a mint:


Congress by their Act of the 6th July last resolved, that the Money Unit of the United States should be a Dollar, but did not determine what number of grains of Fine Silver should constitute the Dollar.


We have concluded that Congress by their Act aforesaid, intended the common Dollars that are Current in the United States, and we have made our calculations accordingly.


* * * * *


The Money Unit or Dollar will contain three hundred and seventy five grains and sixty four hundredths of a Grain of fine Silver. A Dollar containing this number of Grains of fine Silver, will be worth as much as the New Spanish Dollars.33


Shortly thereafter, on 8 August 1787, Congress adopted this standard as "the money Unit of the United States.34

last quote from: http://www.constitution.org/mon/what_is_a_dollar.htm

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:29 | 4701749 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

You obviously don't know the meaning of 'fiat', (by government edict'), which bitcoin is not.  btc has a market value.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:31 | 4701756 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

The word fiat is not defined by "government".  You obviously don't understand the definition.

All you space monkeys need to get off the porch, you are making Project Mayhem look unimportant.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:38 | 4701774 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

 Soul Glow     The word fiat is not defined by "government".  You obviously don't understand the definition.

All you space monkeys need to get off the porch, you are making Project Mayhem look unimportant.

---

And you should know that the government is the only legal force of arms which can define any term they want, despite your claims. If the government hold s a gun to your head and tells you water is dry, if you want to live, water is dry.

Thank you space Soul Glow.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:43 | 4701792 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

This is the stupidest comment I've ever read.  Just because the government says something does not make it so.  And just because you post a comment on ZH does not make you an authority.  Seriously, get the fuck off of the porch.  We have enough Space Monkeys inside.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 23:09 | 4702830 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

Soul Glow says:

 

Bitcoin is a currency because its value is fiat - by decree.

Bitcoins' real value is in it's rarity. Only a limited number can ever be in existence.  

OTOH, Paper dollars are fiat. More tha $85 BILLION in new dollars are created every MONTH!  

Want to discuss supply/demand?  BTC has the U.S. $ beat by every metric.  

See my comment upthread. With a few tweaks, a new bitcoin could have enormous implications for fiat currency, for governments, and really, for the world order.

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:36 | 4701770 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Hey DoChen, check this video out. It might be of interest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CsJ2HMA2I

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:51 | 4701812 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Listening now, just heard about the $150,000,000 Bitcoin transfer.  

$150 million for virtually NO FEE!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:10 | 4701860 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Hell yeah!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:11 | 4701864 Seer
Seer's picture

And Tesla has fast cars!

Riddle me this people: when everyone is broke except govt and large corporations what is everyone else going to be doing with crypto-currencies?

The stakeholders will dictate how the system is to be used, and when you combine big business and govt it's a good bet that all the "protections"* will be "in there" and that cost will be pushed out somewhere (likely to product costs- cost of doing business, don't you know!).

* Must safeguard against the "terrorists!"

And if you're thinking you'll be safe to do transactions away from the govt/big business guess again.  The propaganda will have been sufficiently ingrained into the majority of the masses that any non-approved crypto-currency transaction is related to terrorism.  And given that folks can be hunted down and killed, either by mistake or otherwise, it can be all hidden and any inquiries are blocked by "national security."  The NSA crew can figure out patterns, and all they need is something that looks like one of their hit-list patterns to hit your kill-switch.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:26 | 4701898 Skin666
Skin666's picture

If everyone goes broke then the government goes broke. Government is a parasite that dies with its host. The government cannot create wealth it can only steal it.

 

As long as you have the private keys to your bitcoins, it CANNOT be confiscated. Bitcoin with its decentralized ledgers does away with centralized structures, i.e banks. They are not needed and will not survive.

 

Bitcoin cannot realistically be taxed. Without the control of the money and artificial inflation of the money supply to rob savers, there won't be a government, or the Military Industrial Complex or the NSA. Governments can create money out of thin air, but they cannot create wealth.

 

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:21 | 4702211 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Not true - Governments have access to a machine called a printing press. They can run these suckers incredibly fast , they can print off as much wealth and value as they so desire. If GDP is down , roll the press , if a bank has been caught with their pants down , roll the press , if they want a new war , roll the press , if their banking pals need a bail out , roll the press. See , it;s called Kensyan economics , works every time baby. Don't beleive me ? Ask Paul Krugman - he will back me up and he's even got a Nobel Fucking Prize which actually prooves he knows what the fuck he's on about. But don't worry about all that money they have printed since 1973 - it will all be paid back one day - with Interest to boot. But don't bother ask him where the fuck all that interest will be coming from , 'cos that would mean admitting the entire Fiat Debt system is a massive fucking Ponzi Pyramid Scheme.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 01:28 | 4703044 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

"Miserable" Paul fucktard got a prize from a fucking bank. What does that tell you? ;)

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:18 | 4702368 Seer
Seer's picture

Do you want me to speak slowly?

Here's what I said:

Riddle me this people: when everyone is broke except govt and large corporations what is everyone else going to be doing with crypto-currencies?

Is that slow enough for you to comprehend what I actually wrote, or are you still wanting to twist what I'd orginally said/written?

Everyone NOW is pretty much broke except govt and large corporations (they are the ones sloshing money around).  And, surprise!  The IRS is still banging on my door!

Lastly, if govt goes TU I'd reckon that it'll leave quite a mess in its wake.  Will the infrastruture still be standing to allow crypto-currencies to carry on?  (don't forget that survival is first about getting your person to safety- too many people are thinking "wealth" first, and they'll end up dying in such a strategy)  What levels of probability do you assign here?

"Governments can create money out of thin air, but they cannot create wealth."

Yes, I think that I've heard that one before.  By you.  Moments ago...  And, believe it or not. I GET IT!  But before you feel all haugty make sure that you're not suffering from a bout of human hubris, making youself feel oh so creative and productive.  Govt was always about "management," not that I ever care to defend it.  And last I checked, when I'd work for a multi-national corporation, management there didn't really produce anything either (just charts and shit, just like govts); but, with the exception of a small one to person manufacturing entity it's pretty much all tiered that way.

As to the notion of saving... if everyone were to save the system wouldn't work.  Most humans on the planet can't even contemplate the notion of "saving" (there's like 750 million people in India living on $0.50/day!).  Without growth savings and interest collapse.  This is pretty much what's happening now.  Money is being flushed out (forced low interest rates- I'm being burned, but I'm patient and have a long-term strategy [holding up, measurably, pretty well]); and if you believe, as do I, that that really is the case that growth is gone then I can only sympathize with TPTB as they scramble to give life to the dead... I do not believe that most of these folks were aware of how hot the tourch was when it was passed.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:01 | 4701999 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Seer

Anything can happen, but I would guess that while we will likely have an ugly transition, that (with luck, yes we will need that) we will be relatively OK, particularly those of us who prepare.

The odds, IMO, are against the really ugly Orwellian scenarios playing out.  They could, but my guess is they will not.

Bitcoin is a valued part of my preps.  It gives me a way to move money...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:42 | 4702435 Seer
Seer's picture

"Anything can happen"

I work on probabilities rather than possibilities.  I save "possibilities" for when I dream.

I'll reiterate my position on "transition/collapse:" things wil lbe different in different locations and at different times.

One cannot plan to survive ALL fires of differing intensities ALL the time in ALL locations.  PIck the scenario that you think you can manage and try to set yourself up for handling/managing that.  And, I'd add, try to be where you want to be because that might be the last place you might ever go: I've got a farm, I never go on vacation; having beauty around me offsets being teathered to the land.

"Bitcoin is a valued part of my preps.  It gives me a way to move money..."

I'm "prepping" (really, I'm not, I'm just adjusting myself for what I believe the landscape will look like in the future) to stay alive.  "Wealth" preservation is not at tthe top of my list.  When I was into sailing I'd read a book about trans-pacific racing in which the author greatly stressed spending one's energy on the "main yaht" rather than the "small boat [lifeboat]," stating that if the big yaht failed then what chance do you have with the small one?  Of course he had a lifeboat, but his point was to put your preparations into what mattered most.  What matters most to me, and what I think will eventually matter the most, is my land (of course it's a package deal, with my wife being a given).  "Wealth" can come and go.  You only have one life (intertwined with those around you).  My silly strategy is to survive, produce food and trade that food for labor.

"The odds, IMO, are against the really ugly Orwellian scenarios playing out.  They could, but my guess is they will not."

Seems that there's quite the aura of Orwell happening now.

I don't mean to sound snobbish here, but I spent years with folks hammering over just about every possible outcome.  Someone, fairly well studied in history, stated that most people die quietly enroute to some other place (escaping I suppose).  That stuck in my brain.   It really does come down to the simple and basic: fight or flight.  I'm fine where I am (my wife is happy, so that's the final in that) and I'm too old to "run," but not too old to fight (I recommend that people have ample insurance if they wish to test me on this point).  Life's fundamentals: Food, Shelter and Water- I'm thankful every day that I have these things, and I truly believe that all my time spent discussing these things with others over the many years (yes, I fucking listen!) has paid off.  A lot is meaningless if you don't have a great partner: I'm blessed beyond description here.

It's how I See it...

Fri, 05/09/2014 - 22:14 | 4745461 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Seer: +1 bro. I'm not anywhere near your level of prep and lifestyle but I'm getting there slowly.

Cheers

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:45 | 4701583 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

i was gonna buy $1000 of it   but instead i bought a kilo pf silver, dang i could have sold that for a kilo of gold back at $1200, instread i have a louzy kilo  of silver still

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:32 | 4701758 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Xibalba         I was gonna buy $1500 worth when it was around 10 bucks. I couldn't find a way do do it without giving away all my personal info.  Missed the boat, but I think I may get another shot at it. 

-----

And the ones that would get your personal info will get another shot. In other words, your reason is not logical. Either you don't or you do. Disclosure, I am not a proponent of bitcoin.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:51 | 4701814 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

neither am I.  my point was that the whole logic of BTC is flawed due to the nature of procuring them.  

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:15 | 4702221 madtechnician
madtechnician's picture

Yeah , there is no central issuing authaurity. That is one serious flaw.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:35 | 4702254 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Gold, plasic bottles, btc.  All are assets with no counter-party risk, but only two are tangible.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:33 | 4701541 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I suppose, but it explains Litecoin losing 20% overnight, ouch.

It was $20 when I started mining it as a curiosity, today it's $9.85.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:12 | 4701867 Seer
Seer's picture

So, MTFD (Mine The Fucking Dip)? </sarc>

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:38 | 4701552 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Smart money will treat Bitcoin the same as ANY Speculative Play (in Vegas or Modern Finance):  Allocate/Gamble only what you can afford to lose, while hoping for a long shot to pan out.  Duh!

Nothing more needs to be said.  But will be said, because it's good for site stats, egos and agendas.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:01 | 4701839 813kml
813kml's picture

I guarantee that Wall Street is already speculating away, there are many HFT nerds looking for a new market to manipulate.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 04:45 | 4703187 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

The word on the street is that there is a new digital currency that has real street and strip-club cred...."TIT-coin"!!!

hmm by your avatar I think you were way ahead of the us Stackers but you have to take a 80% reduction seeings that they're man-boobs

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:03 | 4701451 813kml
813kml's picture

Fonestar is out buying chip dip with mom.  Gotta make sure the neighborhood nerds are properly fueled for the big game of 'Magic: The Gathering' in the basement today.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:10 | 4701471 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I live in my Mom's basement. Fonestar lives in his parent's attic. He has a better view of things.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:29 | 4702090 crash commando
crash commando's picture

He lives in the attic. How many times must we cover this?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:02 | 4702003 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Fonestar is busy.  He is buying the dip.

Yes he is!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:08 | 4702012 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Buying the dip or buying the crash?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:31 | 4702094 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Fonestar is "cost averaging".  On average, his losses arenT all that high.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:32 | 4701540 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Quick, someone call it "dead" so we can come back in six months and laugh.

Don't you guys have Russia to hyperventilate over? Isn't the shitty equity market going to crash any time now?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:48 | 4701956 frenzic
frenzic's picture

How's that parity you like to mention working out for you?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:07 | 4702019 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Yeah Russia is no big deal.  Just another day at the office for Kerry and Biden.  And stocks will never crash.  The economy was saved by Ben Bernanke.  Move along.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:03 | 4702005 fonestar
fonestar's picture

EXPONERED!

Need backup now!  fonestar attack this!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:29 | 4701370 infiniti
infiniti's picture

Look on the bright side, only $455 more to drop until fair value.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:00 | 4701443 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

the market will decide what fair value is, not some guy on the internet with a big mouth who isn't even a participant in the market.

also, given the substantial VC commitments recently made to funding bitcoin infrastructure companies, it's clear that big players see a big future in bitcoin:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-report-q1-2014/

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:49 | 4701960 Seer
Seer's picture

Yawn... no, really, it's like waking up 12 years ago when I was involved in a company doing crypto-currencies.  It was a BIG-ass bank/financial entity that was funding us.  They locked us in and then ground it down.  Yeah, nothing like being a threat to a system and having big money people from that system encouraging you to find ways to upset their status quo.

I hear that lots of people are tossing money Tesla's way...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:16 | 4701486 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Interesfing that you use a currency denominated in pieces of foul smelling paper to express value.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:06 | 4701662 infiniti
infiniti's picture

It wouldn't smell as bad if people would stop shoveling shit into ATMs.

 

http://www.thelocal.fr/20140306/french-man-launches-caca-attack-on-the-s...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:46 | 4702442 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm going to go out and step foot in MY investment/speculation, my Ag land.  I'll be sure to wipe my feet off when I return to the house, because, well...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:31 | 4701377 10mm
10mm's picture

Bitcoin=Pet Rocks.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:02 | 4701449 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

please show how pet rocks can let you circumvent capital controls and let you move millions$ across borders unimpeded.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:11 | 4701476 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Throw your pet through thte bank window. Enter the bank and help yourself to some capital, pick up pet and go home.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:48 | 4701592 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Broken windows?  Somewhere Paul Krugman is smiling.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:54 | 4701978 BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

People laugh at Bitcoin.... until one day they won't be laughing, but be filled with regret for their shortsightedness.

Just like the automobile, tv and internet, Bitcoin's technology will eventually overtake daily lives.

Bankers best bet is to create high enough price volatility in Bitcoin, where people can't use it as store of value....

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:48 | 4702445 Seer
Seer's picture

We've now discoverd his secret!  It's the old Hail-Mary with the pet rock trick!  We're such suckers...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:12 | 4701478 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

"move millions$"

You big, swinging dick, you!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:41 | 4701784 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

stacking12321          please show how pet rocks can let you circumvent capital controls and let you move millions$ across borders unimpeded.

----

Precious stones such as diamonds for example. Not something I recommend but you did ask.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:33 | 4702406 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

that's a bit of a change of subject..."pet rocks" refers to a 70s (?) fad, where people made ordinary rocks (not diamonds) into pets. OP's point was to suggest bitcoin is a fad. my counter-point was to show that bitcoin has some substantial real-world practical value, something that fads don't have.

and sure, diamonds can be smuggled across borders easily

(side note: just saw "the ambassador", a documentary / movie on diamond smuggling by diplomats, very interesting: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2048877/?ref_=nv_sr_2 ).

but, diamonds are not fully fungible, so not a great currency, and you must find a buyer for them.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:58 | 4701989 Seer
Seer's picture

So, the real purpose is to circumvent capital controls?  Yeah, sounds like it has a HUGE future among the entities that mandate that capital controls be adhered to!

Safe, just like?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/03/online-drugs-marketpla...

That something can happen doesn't mean that it always will.  Perhaps both cross-border under-the-radar transactions and entities like Sheep Marketplace could exist in the future.  So far the Sheep Marketplace arena doesn't have a great track record.  Who knows, maybe others will get lucky...  For me, and call me conservative, I'll look to rely on more skill than luck.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:39 | 4702427 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

i don't know about "the real purpose", but it's definitely one of the characteristics of bitcoin that gives it value.

"Yeah, sounds like it has a HUGE future among the entities that mandate that capital controls be adhered to!"

and do you plan to continue to live your life forever according to the whims of those that mandate capital controls? or will you stand up and live like a free man? i'm not going to let them dictate how i live or where i take my money; you go ahead and do what's right for you, though.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:57 | 4702482 Seer
Seer's picture

"and do you plan to continue to live your life forever according to the whims of those that mandate capital controls? or will you stand up and live like a free man? i'm not going to let them dictate how i live or where i take my money; you go ahead and do what's right for you, though."

Yes, I shall live forever because I'm imortal!

Please tell me any existing country whose govt doesn't have some sort of capital controls.  OK, that's making it pretty tough... how about ANY govt at ANY time? (do you have a time machine?)

"free man?"  My mind is free.  My body is subject to earth's control.  I know how to make this distinction and therefore I pretty much ensure that my "mind" doesn't look to get my body into some stupid virtually/mentally contrived scenario in which it may meet an early demise.

Your plan is to... take the money and run?  I've heard that with BTC you can transfer that money ahead of you so it'll be safe!  Now, for the tricky part, getting your BODY to safety.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 22:54 | 4702791 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

"Please tell me any existing country whose govt doesn't have some sort of capital controls.  OK, that's making it pretty tough... how about ANY govt at ANY time? (do you have a time machine?)"

that's an odd question for you to bring up. never claimed there's a 100% free country. the point is, there's more free and less free countries. if your country starts to become less free, it might be a good idea to move to one that's more free. and btc lets you take your wealth with you.

getting your body outside the us is not hard, not today, anyhow.

 

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 23:45 | 4702892 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Physical security is an issue aside and independent of Bitcoin.

For the past 5 years humans have been exchanging value in and out of country using Bitcoin without asking anybody's permission.

This works because some humans have agreed among themselves that entries in Bitcoin's distributed ledger carry value irrespective of government labels and laws regarding capital, money and property.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:37 | 4702116 10mm
10mm's picture

Pet rocks like bitcoin, shit sells and dies.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:32 | 4701379 SmilinJoeFizzion
SmilinJoeFizzion's picture

On my 8th bottle of Malbec since Friday night. I am indifferent to this bitcoin at the moment

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:05 | 4701457 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

you can buy malbec with bitcoin, but it's a two step process

1) use BTC to buy a gyft card for target:

http://www.gyft.com/

2) take the gyft card to target to buy malbec:

http://www.target.com/p/the-show-2012-malbec-mendoza-argentina-wine-750-...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:13 | 4701480 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Get a fuckin' life...!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:30 | 4701535 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

not sure if you mean life cereal, or the game of life, but both of those can similarly be purchased with bitcoin!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:39 | 4701562 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Congratulations, you are the poster child of consumerist idiocy.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:53 | 4701610 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

thanks!

what do i win?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:24 | 4702074 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

You win 100 Satoshi.  We would forward them to you, except all miners refuse to confirm the transaction.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 16:14 | 4701691 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

You can turn trash bottles into malbec just as easy. mine the local trash can for empty plastic bottles. Turn them into your local food market for redemption.  turn said redemption into full bottle.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 22:57 | 4702803 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

sure, you can. but i'd rather mine btc than mining the trash, hands stay cleaner that way!

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:32 | 4701380 seek
seek's picture

Another indicator of serious problems in China and them trying to close doors to escape (other than AU, it appears.)

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:37 | 4701395 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

If you are wealthy and well connected in China, you don't care at all. And the remaining Chinese slave laborers don't make a dent here.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:22 | 4702068 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

The wealthy are exactly the ones who do care.  They are well-connected today; they are unsure if they will be well-connected tomorrow. 

 

They would like to still be wealthy tomorrow, even if they should lose their connections sometime today.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:35 | 4701385 IdeasRbulletproof
IdeasRbulletproof's picture

Been awhile since I've seen a bitcoin article. Was about to start wondering if it still exist...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:53 | 4701432 813kml
813kml's picture

BTC never existed, that's what makes it so valuable.

/sarc

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:06 | 4701460 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Then you can also make the case that Zerohedge never existed and has no value, because it's just numbers on someones hard drive.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 15:14 | 4701485 813kml
813kml's picture

BTC is fiat with a clever transaction system, it is worth exactly what people convince themselves it is worth.  For me, that value is nothing.

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