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The Quest To Freeze "Putin's Billions"
Just over a month ago, in the latest round of sanctions against Russia, and specifically Putin's inner circle of advisors and lieutenants, one person was singled out - Gennady Timchenko, part-owner of the Gunvor Group commodities trading company, the fourth largest oil trader in the world with over $90 billion in 2013 revenues.
This name was particularly notable because as part of the justification for adding Timchenko to the list of sanctioned oligarchs, the US Treasury said that "Putin has investments in Gunvor and may have access to Gunvor funds." This is curious because in 2008 The Economist also linked Putin to Timchenko. Timchenko promptly sued but later dropped the case, and The Economist issued a statement. “We accept Gunvor’s assurances that neither Vladimir Putin nor any other senior Russian political figures have any ownership in Gunvor."
Yet somehow, despite the repeated denials that Putin has a direct or indirect interest in the massive oil trading company, the Treasury department apparently knows better. As the NYT reports, "Seth Thomas Pietras, Gunvor’s corporate affairs director, said Mr. Putin “does not and never has had any ownership, direct, indirect or otherwise, in Gunvor,” nor is he “a beneficiary of Gunvor,” and “he has no access to Gunvor’s funds.” After the sanctions statement, Gunvor executives flew to Washington to meet with State Department officials and congressional aides. “We’re providing evidence but have not seen any sort of evidence from them yet and don’t know if we ever will,” Mr. Pietras said. He said the company’s banking partners had been satisfied by its explanations.
The Treasury Department, however, was not. “We remain confident that the information on the relationship between Putin and Gunvor is accurate,” said a Treasury official, who asked not to be identified in a public dispute with the company."
Still, whether or not Putin has a stake in Gunvor is of secondary importance - what matters is that tomorrow, as part of yet another round of sanctions by the US Treasury, among those likely to be on Monday’s list, are Igor Sechin, president of the Rosneft state oil company, and Aleksei Miller, head of the Gazprom state energy giant.
Which brings us to the topic of this post, namely the quest for Putin's billions.
Because if there was anything the Gunvor sanction escalation showed, is that the US is not afraid of going those who are in the Putin circle of not only trust but, certainly, money. To be sure, so far the American government has not imposed sanctions on Putin himself, and according to the NYT, officials said they would not in the short term, reasoning that personally targeting a head of state would amount to a “nuclear” escalation, as several put it. But that doesn't mean the Treasury can't go after those who are nearest to Putin, both in terms of power, and certainly money.
The problem, as the US is starting to realize, is that those alleged billions that Russia's leader may (or may not) have access to are quite difficult to track down. There is much speculation and conjecture, but the facts are still rather slim. Here is what is known:
For years, the suspicion that Mr. Putin has a secret fortune has intrigued scholars, industry analysts, opposition figures, journalists and intelligence agencies but defied their efforts to uncover it. Numbers are thrown around suggesting that Mr. Putin may control $40 billion or even $70 billion, in theory making him the richest head of state in world history.
For all the rumors and speculation, though, there has been little if any hard evidence, and Gunvor has adamantly denied any financial ties to Mr. Putin and repeated that denial on Friday.
The US may not be sure just where Putin's billions are buried preventing a laser-guided strategy, but that just means it will engage in a shotgun approach and slam all those financiers and oligarchs who are closest to Putin - even those whose goodwill is so critical to keep Russian gas flowing to Germany and the UK.
“It’s like standing in a circle and all of a sudden everyone in the circle is getting a bomb thrown on them, and you get the message that it’s getting close,” said Senator Robert Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, describing at a recent hearing the way the sanctions are getting closer to Mr. Putin.
Still, this does beg the question - is Putin really a billionaire? Officially, of course not.
Mr. Putin’s reported income for 2013 was just $102,000, according to a Kremlin statement this month. Over the years, he has crudely dismissed suggestions of personal wealth. “I have seen some papers about this,” he said at a news conference in 2008. “Just gossip that’s not worth discussing. It’s simply rubbish. They picked everything out of someone’s nose and smeared it on their little papers.”
How much Mr. Putin cares about money has long been a subject of debate both in Russia and in the West. On government payrolls since his days in the K.G.B., the Soviet intelligence agency, Mr. Putin to many seemed driven more by power and nationalism than by material gain. With access to government perks like palaces, planes and luxury cars, he seemingly has little need for personal wealth.
“If he really does have all that money salted away somewhere, why?” asked Bruce K. Misamore, who was the chief financial officer of Yukos Oil before the Russian government imprisoned its top shareholder, Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky, seized its assets and gave many of them to Mr. Sechin’s Rosneft. “What good does it do him? Is it just ego? Presumably, it’s not to pass it down to heirs. I doubt we’ll see Mr. Putin becoming one of the leading philanthropists in the world.”
Philanthropist, no. But if indeed Putin has highly confidential access to up to $70 billion, that would probably make him the wealthiest person on earth. And thus most influential.
Still, with no hard numbers and org charts highlight Putin's equity stakes and bank accounts around there world, there is mostly speculation:
The C.I.A. in 2007 produced a secret assessment of Mr. Putin’s wealth that has never been released, according to officials who have read it. The assessment, the officials said, largely tracked with assertions later made publicly by a Russian political analyst who said Mr. Putin effectively controlled holdings in Gunvor, Gazprom and Surgutneftegaz that added up to about $40 billion at the time.
... the assessment roughly mirrored estimates made publicly at the end of that year by Stanislav Belkovsky, a Russian political analyst with ties to the Kremlin whose public attack on oligarchs several years earlier had presaged the arrest and prosecution of Mr. Khodorkovsky of Yukos.
Mr. Belkovsky told European newspapers in December 2007 that Mr. Putin had amassed a fortune of “at least” $40 billion through sizable shares of some of Russia’s largest energy companies. Mr. Putin secretly controlled “at least 75 percent” of Gunvor, 4.5 percent of Gazprom and 37 percent of Surgutneftegaz, Mr. Belkovsky said, citing only unnamed Kremlin insiders.
“The reality is that Putin has others and entities to move money that he controls or that he might control ultimately,” said Mr. Zarate, the former Bush adviser. “The challenge with him is you don’t have an easy way of drawing the line to the assets he actually owns and controls currently. There’s a dimension of layering and relationships with people with whom he’s close and entities that serve as conduits that make it tricky to determine what is Putin’s and what is not.”
Then, there is the indirect way of estimating Putin's wealth:
In 2010, Sergei Kolesnikov, a businessman, published an open letter saying he had helped Mr. Putin secretly build a billion-dollar palace on the Black Sea. The Kremlin dismissed his claims as “absurd.” In 2012, Boris Y. Nemtsov, an opposition leader, released a report detailing the presidential perks at Mr. Putin’s disposal, including 20 residences, 15 helicopters, four yachts and 43 aircraft.
Indirect estimates, however, always leave much to be desired:
some hunting for Mr. Putin’s private wealth have found obstacles. Last month, Cambridge University Press declined to publish a book by its longtime author Karen Dawisha, a Miami University professor, exploring how Mr. Putin built “a kleptocratic and authoritarian regime in Russia.” The publisher wrote her saying it had “no reason to doubt the veracity” of her book, but deemed the risk of a lawsuit too high, according to letters published by The Economist. In a return letter, Ms. Dawisha called the decision “pre-emptive book burning.”
Which brings us back to Gunvor, which is sternly denying any relationship with Putin, even as the US Treasury openly rejected this explanation, with its explicit language.
Did Putin have some or all of his billions at the Cyprus-based company? Perhaps, but the cross holdings are so well-hidden not even the NSA likely knows who owns what. Indicating the complexity of Russian-oligarch org charts, here is just a "simple" summary of what Gunvor's stakeholder Timchenko owned, via Bloomberg:
The majority of Timchenko's net worth was derived from his 44 percent stake in Cyprus-based oil trader Gunvor Group, which he sold to partner Torbjorn Tornqvist on March 19, 2014, ahead of U.S. economic sanctions. Through Volga Group, his Luxembourg-based investment vehicle, he also holds 23 percent stake in publicly traded Novatek, Russia's second-largest natural gas producer; a 31.5 percent stake in petrochemical company Sibur; and 80 percent of rail company Transoil.
He owns Sibur through the holding company Sibur Ltd. with billionaire partner Leonid Mikhelson. The pair acquired the company from Gazprombank, the lending affiliate of state-controlled energy company Gazprom, in 2010 and 2011. The investment cost is calculated using the value stated by Gazprombank in December 2010, when it sold the first 25 percent for $1.3 billion. He also has an 80 percent stake in Russian construction company Stroytransgaz, which is valued using the average price-to-sales and price-to-book value multiples of three publicly traded peers: Mostotrest, Budimex and Polimex-Mostostal.
Through Volga, Timchenko holds stakes in publicly traded Rorvik Timber and Russian Sea Group, a fish farm and seafood processing company, as well as 8 percent of Bank Rossia, 12.5 percent of insurance company Sogaz, 49.1 percent of insurance company Sovag and 30 percent of coal mining company Kolmar. Gunvor holds another 30 percent of Kolmar.
Through A-group, the billionaire controls 70 percent of Avia Group, which develops ground infrastructure for the business aviation center at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, Avia Group Nord, which provides business-aviation services for flights out of Saint Petersburg's Pulkovo international airport, and a 99 stake in private jet operator Airfix Aviation. He also controls Finland's Hartwall Areena along with billionaire partners Boris and Arkady Rotenberg.
Confused yet? Here is more on the ties between the commodity magnate and the Russian president from a 2008 FT profile:
...many wonder whether Gunvor’s rapid expansion over the past five years – just as the Kremlin has moved in on private oil production – is due to more than just vision. The company has “one very good friend,” a former partner says. “He is at the very top level,” says another.
Some have speculated whether there are ties that bind Gunvor’s other co-founder, Gennady Timchenko, and Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president from 2000 until last week. As the company emerges from obscurity, some details of the connections between the two are finally becoming clear. The company claims that it has not benefited from any political favours.
The company’s rise provides a glimpse into a secretive clique of businessmen close to Mr Putin who have made immense fortunes under his presidency but have so far stayed far away from public scrutiny. Even as Mr Putin completes a stage-managed transfer to the role of prime minister, installing his hand-picked successor, Dmitry Medvedev, as president, they are finding it increasingly hard to escape the spotlight. This year, Mr Timchenko for the first time made it on to the Forbes rich list with an estimated fortune of $2.5bn.
In a scanty paper trail, corporate records from St Petersburg show Mr Timchenko and a committee headed by Mr Putin participated in one business in the early 1990s. Bankers say the company, Golden Gates, was established to build an oil terminal at St Petersburg’s port but foundered in a clash with organised crime.
Mr Timchenko’s trading company, meanwhile, was a beneficiary of a large export quota under a scandal-tainted oil-for-food scheme set up by Mr Putin when he worked as head of the city administration’s foreign economic relations committee in 1991, local parliament records show. The trader also built close ties with Surgutneftegaz, a Kremlin-loyal oil company, inviting speculation he may have built a significant stake there.
Keep in mind, this is just one billionaire in Putin's entourage: consider the spaghetti chart of cross-holdings, ownerships and stakes if one charts Putin with all his closest oligarchs. As for those who ended up "less than close" with Putin, just Google Khodorkovsky.
And somehow the Treasury is supposed to keep tabs on all such relationships and track stakeholder interests which in all likelihood were defined only by a verbal arrangement? Of course, it isn't.
Which is why in tomorrow's round of sanctions, the US Treasury will most likely push further and, as rumored, may go as far as the two most powerful men in Russia (behind Putin of course) - the heads of Rosneft and Gazprom.
Will Jack Lew's department finally sink a battleship in its shotgun approach to isolating the financial pawns, knights, bishops and rooks in Putin's chessgame? And if so, what happens if suddenly Putin realizes that the US financial trap may be getting warmer and warmer, and even the nuclear option is being contemplated. Will that be enough to force the former KGB spy to backtrack after over 2 months of opportunities to do just that? Somehow we doubt it, and in fact it will likely accelerate the Russian offensive both in the Ukraine and elsewhere around the world.
If nothing else, though, in a few more months of escalating sanctions of those most near and dear to Putin, if not Putin himself, the world may finally have its first official glimpse of what and where are "Putin's billions."
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Sorry, he lost it in a boating accident.
OK, if this shit's going mano a mano, we really need to pitch Bath House,
and go find a honey badger.
This shit is about to get real, according to Russian newspapers:
04.27.14 2000 ET BREAKING NEWS: Russian Military Medics ordered Prepare to Serve inside UkraineSo it the East's oligarchs vs the West's oligarchs??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo7zkd0kRS4
Putin sure has quite some wealth, he owns probably more than a billion dollar in assets, but this is not important for him. He is brought up in another world like these Wall Street. And that is what the ruling class in the West doesn´t get.
you mean like "you can take our women...you can take our rubles...you can take our gold.....BUT YOU CANT TAKE OUR VODKA""
"...$70 billion, that would probably make him the wealthiest person on earth."
What's a measley $70B to a Rothschild? Or a Lazard or even a Rockefeller?
I mean like "you can do all your banking tricks you want against us, in the end you have to fight one of the largest army in the world with nukes, you pussies".
It's easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to make it to heaven.
I’d feel a lot better about them going after how Vlad got rich only after if they went about how “Dirty Floor” Harry Reid got rich.
Whoever owns the Fed is probably worth trillions...
Well said. That's exactly what I thought!
Numbers are thrown around suggesting that Putin may control $40 billion or even $70 billion, in theory making him not only the richest head of state in world history but possibly the richest man alive in the world today, period.
How can anyone print such nonsensical rubbish. The Rothschilds alone are worth hidden trillions... not to mention the other International "private stock holder" families of the Federal Reserve.
Just more bullshit from the all-knowing, all-seeing administration that can do no wrong. A wild goose chase hunting for $$$ that Putin may or may not have. And just how does the US propose to seize these funds if found and on what premise? These guys think nothing through before they pull the trigger, which is the scary part.
Boats...,
You can't live with..., you can't live without them.
Everyone knows that evil Putin owns the Fed. The Treasury must immediately seize it.
Now I get it, the USSA must steal Putins 70 billion to fund Obamacare, LOL.
Nothing the MSM reports about Putin can be trusted -- NOTHING ! ! !
When every major Mainstream Media outlet is completely controlled by the CIA ....
Don't you recall Bush administration saying that al qaeda had budget bigger then US military?
I was likewise thinking of the Bush Family as I read this article. And the Clintons. And... And... And...
The reality is that Putin has others and entities to move money that he controls or that he might control ultimately,” said Mr. Zarate, the former Bush adviser. “The challenge with him is you don’t have an easy way of drawing the line to the assets he actually owns and controls currently. There’s a dimension of layering and relationships with people with whom he’s close and entities that serve as conduits that make it tricky to determine what is Putin’s and what is not.” ...Keep in mind, this is just one billionaire in Putin's entourage: consider the spaghetti chart of cross-holdings, ownerships and stakes if one charts Putin with all his closest oligarchs.
It's all part of the propaganda push, to try and demonize putin and make it easier for the general sheepish public to support any bullshit the us decides to dream up. It's the reason why you see that hilarious "super bowl ring" story surface now and again and anything and everything that might be deemed negative press for putin is hyped like it's "top story" shit. It's why you see things like "evil russians block us spying despite it being totally legal" and on the reverse you see "omg, evil russians spying on the US!!! WE MUST DO SOMETHING". This bullshit has been going on for decades and the reason is simple. A developed Russia is a SCARY Russia. With all those untapped resources, Russia has ALWAYS been a target.
Claiming Putin has ultra top secret investments that make him ultra rich... please, that's just bullshit. I might as well claim that Obama has secret shares in all the banks and insurance companies because of ultra top secret backroom deals that allows the insurance companies and banks to become untouchable. I can claim all I want, the point is that it's bullshit.
Indeed. I am shocked and dismayed that the Russian oligarchs could be richer than ours. Moar QE!
Vlad left a $1.46 on the bathroom counter, last time he came over for sushi and beer.
I can confiscate that.
.......Bow wow....he he.....lookout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxJbexStnI
Yep. All this talk and guessing about whether Putin is worth $8 or $8 billion is silly. obama thinks he'll divide the hornest's nest and conquer it. More likely the hornets will come together and mass an attack. Perhaps Putin has his men on our billionaires already. Nailgunning.
my understanding from confidential sources is - he is worth - $17 Trillion dollars - if the american people go along with whatever Obama and Kerry say and deem an objective worthy of their lives - then they will use his Trillions to eliminate all US debt and taxes in the USA indefinitely
yours is not to reason why, yours is just to do or die !
USA USA USA !!!
BS
Hes a true elite. He cares about Russia first and foremost. Unlike the Federalist scum in western democracies who answer to higher powers
I just don't see any motivation for Putin to seek personal wealth.
The guys controls the KGB and enough nuclear weapons to end life on earth, he can have virtually anyone on the planet killed with total impunity.
He lives in a giant palace and is protected by one of the worlds largest standing armies.
He choose the laws of the land and has the ear of any world leader.
What the fuck would he want $70bn for? It wouldn't change a thing for him. He lives like an emperor. If he swapped being president of Russia for being the worlds richest man he would actually be materially worse off!
You simply cannot buy the kind of power Putin has. $70bn wouldn't even get you close.
"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."
-- Orwell 1984
That is what Putin is up against.
Anyone who thinks that Russia is not in the cross-hairs of the most powerful military and industrial conglomerate in the world is a wanker.
And he put himself in those crosshairs, why? Cuz he fancies himself a Russian Robin Hood? In his own words "Novorossiya" implies something "new"...that is to say, not currently owned or ever owned.
My my, from Putins own mouth ;-)
It's not a fair comparison. Putin is 100% old school KGB RUSSIAN. Barry represents everything wrong with America.
O'Barry & Putin are exactly the same, ideologically.
They both come from the same party training regimen, O'Barry just came from the "New Party" school and at its core is a black socialist nationalist, still marxist but with a color biased eye, not someone (of any color) people want smaking decisions of national import for them. Putin just had original idiot teachers...lol.
O'Barry's ties to the New Party and communism are well documented (as are Putins to the KGB & communism) so no need to go into them here, two communists having a bitch slap fight is really an occaison for popcorn not concern, I'm just trying to get the Euro-Commies into the act ;-)
"O'Barry & Putin are exactly the same, ideologically."
+1000. I would have only added "and pathologically" after ideologically.
Exactly! OM has it right. People desire money because it brings them power. When one has power, he no longer "needs" "money".
The Western bankers do not understand a man like Putin. They view the world through their own eyes - the eyes of vice, immorality, greed and fear. They cannot comprehend a man who has a vison of restoring his country to what he sees as it's natural role in the world and will not be bought off by gold trinkets or zero's on a ledger somewhere.
A guys gotta have a fallback plan, at some point he knows he will be the "old lion" in a pride of lions looking to take his perch.
He's not stupid and he's not a martyr, he's a survivor, no matter what it takes, he will do it.
(Audible gasp) self interest ;-)
//////////////
Wut?
Four (so far) think he's immortal!?!?...ROTFL!
Babes, mere babes.
///////////
Five now think he is immortal. Now this is getting interesting.
You simply cannot buy the kind of power Putin has. $70bn wouldn't even get you close.
And he doesn't even bother picking up on Obummer's phone calls.
That's mega Cojones he has
*Ring*Ring*
"Vlad, it's Bath House. Again."
"Who?"
ya
but does he have any seals
But you are supposed to HATE him! Saying he is worth 70 billion will generate lots of hate. Uncle Sam can then fuck around with Ukraine as much as he wants!
I hate everyone equally, you can't take that out of me, no segregration, separation, just me in my world of enemies!
But you are supposed to HATE him! Saying he is worth 70 billion will generate lots of hate. Uncle Sam can then fuck around with Ukraine as much as he wants!
Why would Putin want "personal wealth"? For power and control, that's what. Yes, he rules Russia. But having access to vast billions allows him to control both sides of the law and to control enterprises outside his own country. Of course the KBG does this too, and I'm not sure you can separate Putin's personal wealth from the KGB's wealth. You might as well consider it all to be Russia's wealth, regardless of who controls the purse-strings on any particular shares or accounts.
wrong wrong and wrong again. After the Gulf War, remember Bush/Baker running over to Kuwait?
it wasnt for the weather. $15M each. The Kuwaiti's were shocked how cheap. $70B? thats f$%k u
money and thats just what he told the Saudis.
Yup. The commie bankers v. COMMIE bankers. Get popcorn and beef before hyperinflation make it unafforadable.
What about the quest for the TRILLIONS of dollars in missing Pentagon funds and TARP money ??????
I dont care about Putin's billions.
Best they start looking closer to home for the Multi-Trillions of dollars that the Bush, (et al), crime families have got socked away.
9/11 Conspiracy Solved: Names, Connections, & Details Exposed!https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n_fp5kaVYhk
What hasn't Obamlied about, Frenchy?
Cowards are incapable of answering honestly....
Maybe they are trying to raise Putins taxes??
Right now, your country needs you to be a patriotic American. This is no time to be asking rational questions.
Being a "patriotic American" means disengaging one's brain and hating the government's current bogeyman.
Yes!
We need to send boys from Kansas to die in the Ukraine so the mighty Europeans can plan their vacations unmolested...its the American way!
And where are the Frnchies in all this?
French Ban Fireworks at Euro Disney - (AP), Paris, March 5, 2003
The French Government announced today that it is imposing a ban on the use
of fireworks at Euro Disney. The decision comes the day after a nightly
fireworks display at the park, located just 30 miles outside of Paris,
caused the soldiers at a nearby French Army garrison to surrender to a
group of Czech tourists.
Exactly MY point.
I mean WTF!!!...O'Barry is trotted out as the "defender of the free world" after signing off on putting a gun to my head to buy something from a private corporation and John fucking Kerry (when not trying to hide his yacht in a different port for his own tax purposes) is going on about his jeeenjus con zin and how this is like the golden horde sweeping through europe and something simply must be done about it as the euros sit on their fat asses.
Really?
No, fuck them. If they want to do something about Putin they need to get up off their ass and do something or let him bitch slap them like the pussies they are.
I'm not the least bit interested in defending people who interjected themselves into my sphere of influence in the past, they should respect my inclination to not interject myself into theirs now ;-)
Of course we are at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia. Now come join me in the two minutes' hate.
Looking for accountability is SUCH a 'pre-9/11' mindset........
Funny how 9/11 provided such a 'Get Out of Jail FREE' card for SO many people. Lots of investigations came to an abrupt end that day - and the obsesion with 'terrorism' meant that many other financial crimes were never investigated. An FBI agent I know complained vociferously that ALL the investigations into financial crimes that they were conducting stopped and they spent post 9/11 on 'wild goose chases' - following the leads on 'terrorists' provided by 'busybody old ladies'.
Absolutely astounding how $2.3 TRILLION in 'unaccounted for 'Pentagon funds could go uninvestigated - with far more going missing post 9/11..... PALLETS Of $US 100 bills sent to Iraq?!?!? WTF?!?!?
It is ten times more expensive to track those pallets of benjamins than it it to print them.
Economics 101 therefore stipulates to just keep printing and stop being a wuss with the accounting.
In our free market the "invisible hand" will make it right.
"Contractors" were submitting invoices for reconstruction projects, being paid cash in bricks of $100 dollar bills, packing that money in duffles and suitcases, and flying it out of Baghdad the same day. Many personal fortunes were made by the quick and connected while the enlisted men wre being maimed by IED's and everyone was sucking down the DU. What a fucking scam.
*edit hilarious typo lol
Look UP
http://theunexplained.tv/paranormal-podcasts/edition-154-catherine-austi...
Last.10 minutes explains it all...
They spent that on NSA to spy on us all so really they shared it...
"So it the East's socialist oligarchs vs the West's socialist oligarchs."
Fixed ;-)
Where can I contribute some hot lead to that shindig?
Coming to a IRS/HHS/DHS/NSA office near you ;-)
Gotcha. We'll sign Putin up for Obamacare.
He'll never get rid of that tar baby.
Eat your peas!
(Two peas in a pod)
I ain't eatin no peas bitch
-nmewn, 2014
Dats me ;-)
Grab a gun and get your ass over there tough guy.
I'll kick Putin in the knee,
while you sniff his jock strap.
Right, which should tell you that they are both your enemy which should also tell you that the enemy of the enemy is really not their enemy which leaves you with no friends.
More like East oligarchs could get busted for the Sochi graft and if Ukraine joins the EU, their state assets will be curbstomped.
If Ukraine lets German/French corps enter the Urea trade, Ukrali will get thrown in the M&A shredder. If the Black Sea oil becomes half as big as Tupi, Igor's pet Rosneft with 4.1x DACF will be fubar. Gazprom is facing a 9% production decline crunch before 2018, and is failing upwards to defend their margins. Nobody buys Russian hardware in bulk anymore, just 100 to copy/steal.
If Russia secures Odessa they capture the Urea markets. If Russia captures Donets, they lockdown the shales. If they do NOT invade, the Chess Master will likely try to nail Putin for the Apartment Bombings or the Sochi games corruption, both of which can and will bring down his Gov.
So.... take a wild guess what Russia will do. He can't go back now.
That's not Neocon, that's just the facts.
lol...no backing away now, plus one.
That's two nice comments today I learned from you, Rat Guy, + another one.
hardware?
http://defence.pk/threads/russian-su-24-scores-off-against-the-american-...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-25/nato-allies-unreassured-us-dest...
Try a more credible source than some Third World forum.
imagine a king who fights his own wars... wouldnt that be a sight.
Putin cares about one thing: power.
Money is power. But with real, military-based power, the money will flow in. Easily. By the tens of $Billions. And more.
Money can buy power — sometimes. But power always gets the money. All it needs, or wants.
Human nature. Putin understands it. Odumbo doesn't.
We're forked.
Might be something. But the Ukrainian news service cited as reporting Russian armourded brigades a kilometer from the border has been heard dozens of times. The call up of more medics is odd, and they surely would not be told to get ready to move to Ukraine. Militaries just don't function like that in the face of a planned military action. I don't know, but rumors are all over at this point. Russia would need a real good pretext to move the Russian army. Like assults on cities. I do know that Russia has promised to defend the East Ukrainians, the Ukrainian army knows this, that is why a lot of early arrivals refused to fight and some went ove to the rebels.
In a stand up fight, the Ukrainian Amry would be degraded by heavy missile and rocket attacks, even using the fuel air warheads that made Chechen fighters lose their war.
I think we are far froma Russian invasion, but if Kiev starts a lot of blood letting, then they are going to be pounded like no western puppet has been pounded before. Shock and awe is not a western monopoly, Ukrainian soldiers want no part of that, and I doubt Russia Army does either. Only the west seems hell bent on driving this to an open war, they have everything to gain, and Ukraine and Russia have a lot to lose. Only fools fight when a third part is pushing them to. Reminds me of fight nights in the Navy, they called them "smokers". Get some dumb ass sailors form different ships to beat each other to a pulp for entertainment on a Sasturday night. Fuck that.
Bottom line is that the 'weasels' that deserve to die will somehow escape from Kiev!
And a surge of mysterious, unexplained banker deaths in 3, 2, 1.....
What a complete waste of US taxpayer, er borrowed money. Who gives a rats ass what Putin has or doesn't have.
they want you to see Putin as a dirt bag criminal... or think that this is all about money. Might sell in the U.S. for some people... but my guess is that in the rest of world, the U.S. reputation is destroyed long term (as it well should be, and should have been a long time ago)
The western looting of Russia after Communism fell left most with a real bad taste - I expect most Russians prefer a good old fashioned Russian strong man - keeping control of Russian wealth in Russian hands - over western style 'freedom' and 'capitalism'. Pensioners look back fondly to Stalin and blame the west for their ills - with reason.
Yeah, those breadlines & Siberian gulags were fantastic!
But there was always toilet paper though, helps not to eat ;-)
//////////////
So, confirmed four Stalinists who won't show themselves, so far.
Excellent!!!
I love democracy and voting it reveals so much ;-)
Yes, it's odd how many ZHer's are falling for 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'.
I guess they can't tell the difference between 'enemy of my enemy' and 'would be my enemy if only I lived within its borders'.
As for the pensioners who reminisce about Stalin - I guess they're some of the millions who didn't get killed by him, or had their fathers/mothers/brothers/sisters/sons/daughters/ killed by him.
Putin is not our friend. He is not stacking gold so that one day we will all be rich. Neither are the Chinese government. The best we can say is that Putin is another mafia's Don who is standing up to 'our' mafias' Dons.
Its amazing Jim, it really is. They seem to think Putin is the second coming, when he's just a carbon copy of what is already here among us, that we have to deal with everyday.
Oh yes! Give me a DIFFERENT strongman to rule our lives, sending his thugs to our doors and troops across borders.
Fucking-A!!!
Simply amazing.
Oh, they get to run around, jump up and down, yell and scream, point fingers, play Kabuki theater and Hegelian Dialectic.
Right... Who cares and a bloody waste of money
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=youtube+pick+a+bale+of+cotton+song&ei=U...
I'm just the messenger; if it's OK for YouTube, it's OK for America
You are absolutely right, I was ambivalent about Putin until our own scumbags started pushing my sympathy in his direction, starting with the Snowden saga, leading into Syria and now this.
Take a look at what we have at the top. A rogue's gallery of schlemielocons and bankster pimps.
It is a complete disgrace.
How can anyone down-arrow that post? It must have been a"bankster pimp."
http://youtu.be/rkB9OT2XVvA
oh yeah, and http://youtu.be/13vLwKdDlVY
I AM EPIC WIN
Where's Walleto?
Ya, because an avid Chess Player, wouldn't have seen this telegraphed, programmed, amatuer hour move, two years ago, and made appropriate adjustments!!
What's still so amusing/stunning about this bullshit, is these fucking clowns in charge, think they are going to use some two bit play book from 15-20 years ago, treating Putin like some Saddam/average warlord type!!
Putin is anything but that, and this is why this shit keeps blowing up in tin can Barry's face!!!
he's a Bond villain, makes for great press
Makes ya wonder: "whatever became of agents 000 through 006?"
It is all under Yellen's skirt
Last place I would want to look.
Putin Vs. Jamie Dimon and Loyd Blankfein.
Its on like Donkey Kong.
YeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaa
Hunting Season is Open.
The CIA is down to "have you stopped beating your wife" arguments? Where have you hidden the $40 billion?
Empire meet decline.
I would take a gander that a plurality of americans like the Russian president more than our own.
pods
Just painting the picture of "hes the reason your lifes sucks" maybe this will go viral, as opposed to that jew registy boondangle..
I sure don't know about "like" but sure as hell respect, thinking he's not the one who's clueless ands got the balls...
Another dimension is that so many folks have had it up past their prostate with the infallible, Messinastic sophistry that any beat down is seen as an about time come uppance.
http://nypost.com/2014/04/27/the-media-is-turning-on-president-obama/
Just the messenger, here, folks
<----I have more political and moral views in common with Russian President Putin
<----I have more political and moral views in common with US President Obama
*Even though this forum may be slightly biased, a poll is a poll (accoring to MSM).
Abraham Putin?
http://www.drudge.com/news/178453/russia-orders-bloggers-register
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140423/09130227004/russian-net-clampd...
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/04/russia-orders-bloggers-register-outlaws
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Russia_Orders_Bloggers_To_%27Register%27;...
http://rt.com/politics/154056-russian-bloggers-mass-media/
Other rules applying to state-registered bloggers are similar to those working in the mainstream mass media – they are banned from posting extremist and terrorist information, propagating pornography or violence, and disclosing state or commercial secrets. The bloggers will be obliged to verify the information they post, delete false reports and abstain from disclosing people's personal data. They will also be banned from using obscene language. Some other restrictions may apply, such as the “day of silence” ahead of elections.
Shhh! Putin is a saint round here.
Have you checked his sock drawer,
because for many years that's where I kept my "wealth?"
Hoff.... can I stop by for coffee?
Rich lists are a giant pile of horse shite. Funny how Saudi oil shiekhs and owners of the FED and other Central Banks are never listed.
Nor Rothschilds & Rockefellers...
C'mon! Those guys are only rich 'in spirit' from all the good deeds they do.
fools. he keeps it in his shoes.
No midget porn jokes.
You'll get the SEC all excited.
I'd tell you one but want to keep it short.
LOL. It's right in front of everyones face. How about that picture of him holding gold bars? He could very well personally own many of those and the fucking west can't touch it.
Counterparty risk? Never heard of it.
He stores it at a Rothschild estate.
WHy would anybody in their right mind give their gold to someone else to hold it for them LOL
Is that dumb-ass Barry engaging in "bear baiting" trying to fuck with Putin and his alleged fortune?
Not a good plan Barry
^ exactly what he said...
Dumbass Barry doesn't even know what game he's playing but he keeps throwing someone elses treasure & blood into the pot.
Cuz its frrreeeeee! as far as he's concerned, for now.
Sure, go ahead and fuck with this mans personal wealth, because he wont tow the line..
It will be polonium enemas for all...
Feed the alligators a few marshmallows, fuck with Sasquatch.
What could go wrong?
You don't pull on Superman's cape and you don't mess with Vlad.
Chuck Norris doesn't fuck with Vlad
The point is he stole $70bn from Russian people or was he just successful inverstor with $100K a year salary to earn 700,000% within last 14 years?
Hitlary did it.
Why does Putin ever need money for ???
If he was really that rich, he could use his billions to buy off the U.S. Congress.
Then he could get them to unconditionally surrender to Russia's mighty might. And to top it off, maybe even make American reparation payments to the Ukrainian people with all that gold in Ft. Knox.
what a completely useless farticle.
What's up MSM? You never seen your daddy suck a rich man's cock?
A lot of assertions but no proof.
The article is a waste of time.
Having said that it is a pity that the US does not have the balls to move assertively against the estimated $22-30 trillion in tax havens which could recapitalize the world and give many people some much needed debt relief.
The US unfortunately reminds me of a spoilt child thrashing about and having a temper tantrum because it's not getting its way.
Never mind that those "tax havens" can easily be toppled over by the US.
If he's as good as Tony Blair at hiding his stash, they'll never find a single ruble.
What the fuck folks. Clinton, Obama and Gore have more money stashed in secret banks than Putin could ever dream of. The State Dept loses track of more than that in a year. That missing cash is in some US politicians private account. You'd think that ugly cunt Hillary would spend a few bucks of it to cinch up all of that loose skin on her face, neck, ass and cankles. Harry Reid - how about his personal stash...and Nancy Pelosi and Company. Corruption is so bad that nobody even gives a fuck anymore. At some point in time, these criminals will need to be hunted down and publicly executed for their crimes. Meanwhile, everyone is pointing the finger at Putin. Give me a break.
Politicial Elites are living the life of Movie and Sports Stars....all expenses paid.....everything they want at the snap of their fingers. Fucking Royalty. Living large on everyone else's dime. Power hungry Sociopathic Narcissistic Fuctards all. I pray they all rot in hell. amen.
I imagine Boehner, McCain and the other Rino's are sitting on some impressive piles of cash as well.
the USA agenda is they want a war, so they can make more. (wow, that rhymes).
i could give a damn about what putin is worth. or hillary. just don't send kids to death for no reason except their gain.
steal all you want - just stop KILLING KIDS.
and hillary and reid apear more determined to do that than putin right now.
I'm with you on the getting young folks killed. But I really do give a flying fuck about all of the public money being stolen by these criminals. If these money grubbing drunk on power fucks were in jail where they belong instead of running our country, there wouldn't be anyone getting their ass killed.
Confiscate the Clintons' hundred milllion. It's all bribe money.
yo, Team Amrka, go find Rummie's "missing trillions" the Pentagon couldn't find. . .
oh, wait, the offices were incinerated way back then, yah.
keystone kops, diversionary kartoons abound.
The Bush criminal syndicate was the worst - they are worth billions -some say trillions.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Vlad
...and you don't mess with the US.
The drive to demonize Putin is in full gear. Hillary started the ball rolling by comparing him to Hitler. Soon he will be painted as being considerably worse than Hitler. Apparently, he is already a much bigger thief than Hitler.
That he stopped the war in Syria (he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for that) and gave asylum to Snowden has been forgotten. No good deed goes unpunished in this world.
Former secretary of state Hillary Rodham Clinton on Tuesday compared Russian President Vladimir Putin's aggression in Ukraine to actions taken by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler outside Germany in the run-up to World War II.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/03/05/hillary-...
I thought the Holocaust hype crowd were all against comparing anyone to Hitler.
Coud be because the Hitler myth is being exposed and its days are numbered.
The victors write history.
He only took in a traitor to the United States and its citizens.
It's clear that world wide all the fucking money has collected in the hands of a very few, while whole societies rot away. This is what neoliberal economics was all about.
neoliberal economics and ... the 20th century, 19th century, each of like 300-1000 centuries* before that.
No agricultural or industrial civilization has been any other way. They're just so damn exploitable.
*agricultural revolution, pick your city-state
At least pitch forks and torches are readibly availabe.
Found it! It's under my bed in small unmarked rubles. I guess I should clean under there every few years.
well, if wealth is based upon control, Obama and Yellen must each be worth hundreds of billions of dollars. Sounds like a lot of grasping at straws.
damn straight.