• Monetary Metals
    05/02/2016 - 01:28
    The price of gold shot up this week, and silver moved proportionally. Headlines are screaming for gold to hit $10,000 or $50,000. Does this alleged new bull market have legs?

Gold Fix Manipulation Crackdown: Deutsche Officially Resigns London Fix Seat

Tyler Durden's picture


Three months ago, we discussed the increasingly close eye that regulators were keeping on Deutsche Bank (and in fact many other precious metal fix providers) as manipulation concerns shifted from conspiracy theory to conspiracy fact. At the time, Deutsche - among other banks - had suggested it would relinquish its role on the London Fixing committee and was actively marketing its seat to other LBMA members - it failed to find a willing buyer; the WSJ now confirms...


This is hardly surprising given previous comments that possible manipulation of precious metals "is worse than the Libor-rigging scandal." but it does leave us wondering who is left to do the manipulating? It seems no one wants to be part of the fixing process (critical for so many derivatives contracts) unless they are allowed to manipulate it to their own needs.

As a reminder, Deutsche is one of five banks involved in the twice-daily gold fix for global price setting.

As Bloomberg reports,

“Deutsche Bank is resigning its position on the gold and silver benchmark setting process,” it says in e-mailed statement today.


Says remains fully committed to precious metals business

So if everyone exits the London fixing market, what happens then?

"It wouldn't surprise me if the other banks were looking at pulling out as well. Why would they want the aggravation?" said the source, who declined to be named.


"The more worrying point is that, if you don't have the fixing, what do you have? There's a lot of contractual business done on the gold fix, and if you've got no basis for where the price is, someone is going to lose out."

Well considering that the fixing process over the years was manipulation pure and simple, those who will lose out are the... manipulators? it would seem rather logical. And speaking of manipulation, if indeed Germany is so keen on breaking the manipulators' back, perhaps it can demand that the pace of its gold returns from the NY Fed and Paris accelerates. It may be surprised at what it finds.

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Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:30 | 4707606 So Close
So Close's picture

As if they did not already have another plan well in hand.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:33 | 4707620 VD
VD's picture

Germany should invade the USSA to get itz gold back...

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:35 | 4707632 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Putin, PLEASE, PLEASE invade London and save us from these bankster criminals <g>

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:42 | 4707667 Four chan
Four chan's picture

marc faber is taking the douches seat.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:49 | 4707699 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Avalanches begin as a snowflake.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:53 | 4707717 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

Q: Does the probability of manipulation (a) go down, or (b) go up when the number of entities fixing the price of gold drops from 5 to 4?  What about when it drops from 4 to 3?  From 2 to 1? 

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:56 | 4707725 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

These gold price 'manipulation' conspiracy theories are quite amusing. The idea that a market as large as this could be manipulated for years without any regulator noticing and without any reputable institution filing a lawsuit is nothing short of absurd. My experience with goldbugs is that they tend to be appallingly bad traders and prefer to blame their losses on others rather than take responsibility for their own poor judgment.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:58 | 4707733 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


When a gang of sweating German bankers burst out of the LBMA on the run, we must be close.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:03 | 4707752 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

MDB, either stupid or deliriously ignorant. Ever hear of BAFIN??? Said PM manipulation WORSE than LIBOR? Stay in your shell, warm and comfy in there(until its not)

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:18 | 4707815 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

I mentioned this specifically in yesterday's story on D.B. regarding Jim Willie's excellent inside info on the collapse of D.B. from last summer.  Will post again here in case anyone is interested in the article links or the youtube interviews.


Ummmmm....The Golden Jackass has been talking about Deutsche Bank crumbling since last summer. Their top level execs been under heavy Interpol investigative pressure and they've had to withdraw from the London gold fixing scheme.  Jim says D.B. nightly has to scramble all night long to ensure they don't totally implode and can survive another day. 

Jim Willie: If Deutsche Bank Goes Under It Will be Lehman Times Five!


44 minute youtube interview with The Doc about it from July 2013:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvnW-daLwWc

He predicts D.B. will be broken up in to 5 smaller parts:

Jim Willie Reveals the SMOKING GUN On US Gold Rehypothecation!


49 minute youtube interview with The Doc from Feb. 2014:  https://www.youtube.com/embed/K5Om7PC8LQY

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:22 | 4707842 cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

Be kind to MDB, he is designed as a foil. He collects down arrows as a matter of pride. His 180 degree comments are actually quite well thought out to keep us on our toes whether he is truly that ignorant, a paid troll or a very astute foil.

I admire the subtlety he puts into his infrequent comments unlike Fonestar who receives CIA $ to plump up BitCoin.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:44 | 4707949 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Luckily everyone saw through Foneystar's pump, he was called out, and very few ZHers lost their ass on BTC.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:04 | 4708043 Prisoners_dilemna
Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:06 | 4708057 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Fonestar blew himself up.  W-a-a-a-y too obvious.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 13:36 | 4708583 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

When I bought BTC at 30$ each..people said it was stupid. When I sold at 900..and bought some silver..it made my day. I just picked up some more at 430.


Maybe I should buy more than one this time?


The boating accidents in my lake have displaced all the water, need a new lake.



Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:41 | 4707935 superflex
superflex's picture

Thanks MDB,

We do enjoy your snark trolling.

Now get back to polishing Obama's knob.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:53 | 4707718 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

The Next NEW GOLD Fixing Scam Is Already Well In Place...

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:19 | 4708130 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

You mean there's something left in London they can fix?

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:36 | 4708256 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture
Ted Butler: Silver is Akin to a Lit Match & a Barrel of Dynamite!

It is said that history doesn’t repeat itself, but in the case of silver, I don’t see how that can be avoided. In more ways than not, silver today reminds me of the time when it traded under $5 per ounce.
As was the case back then, the thought that it might eventually climb more than ten times in value was widely disbelieved and openly scoffed at. That’s because silver was the most undervalued asset in the world, both then and now. If you didn’t catch the first run, you’ve just been given a second chance.
And it is also interesting that silver is registering as the most undervalued investment asset precisely at the same time when there is more total investment net worth and buying power in the world than ever before. The assets in hedge funds alone are now at a record $2.7 trillion; 1 percent of which ($27 billion) is more than the value of all the silver bullion in the world (if it could be bought).

The 100 million oz of new silver available for investment annually would take only one-tenth of one percent ($2.7 billion) of hedge fund assets. Unless hedge funds have stopped looking for undervalued assets, I can’t help but feel that’s a set up akin to a lit match and a barrel of dynamite.


Read more here:  http://www.silverdoctors.com/ted-butler-silver-is-akin-to-a-lit-match-a-barrel-of-dynamite/

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:50 | 4707705 strannick
strannick's picture

Like with Roosevektvrevaluing gold in the 30s, or the London Gold Pool in the 60s, these suppressed merrily go along, right up until the day they don't.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 19:48 | 4709976 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Betcha the PBOC would gladly take the seat!

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:45 | 4707675 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

They are shifting operations to make them more transparent, or is that invisible?  Even as the fixing cartel disintegrates, the gold price is being fixed right now more effectively than ever.  For now.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:56 | 4707727 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:47 | 4707952 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The fact that every guy is on a phone, doesn't that indicate that the 'deciders' are on the other end of the line, not sitting physically in the 'Gold Fixing' room?  Too 'heatbag'.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 13:55 | 4708693 Four chan
Four chan's picture

so there are 5 rothschilds bankers in that room?

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:52 | 4707980 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

BBC Rerun.....Jim'll Fix It...

"Dear Jim, can you fix it for me to join the London gold manipulators for one afternoon in NM Rothschild's offices at St Swithin's Lane office?"


Bewildered BBC Exec Producer: "WTF? How did this programme get on the air now. Shut it down now, Pull it, or the Bank will have my head, and while you're at it, can someone burn all those Saville reels out the back."




Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:23 | 4708153 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I'll have the extra cheeze with anchovies and olives. Hold the onions.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:37 | 4707904 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

@Latina Lover,

It would only take about 50 Billion dollars to buy up all the remaining physical silver in the vaults.  Russia and/or China separately or together could wipe out the physical market and the COMEX in a heartbeat. 

The crash would send phyzz silver prices and gold along with it soaring to massive record highs in subsequently crashing dollars and other fiat currency valuations.

It would wipe everyone else out.  It's all they would need to do.  The final push over the cliff and the great monetary reset would lurch into action.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:52 | 4708344 sleigher
sleigher's picture

I think they are waiting for Yellowstone to blow.  What better time to crush your enemy than when he is down on the ground bleeding?



Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:35 | 4707634 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

Nowhere to raid is the problem.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:37 | 4707640 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Why invade the USSA, there is no gold to seize, only short gold futures contracts are left.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:37 | 4707643 Vooter
Vooter's picture

What gold?

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:39 | 4707658 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Uhmmm... In case you didn't know .. that gold has been gone long ago. Why do you think it's taking so long to give it back?

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:45 | 4707683 VD
VD's picture

i forgot the /s for you...

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:33 | 4707624 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I hear Blythe finally found a job.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:34 | 4707631 SHEEPFUKKER

Gold fix manipulation.....redundancy much?

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:34 | 4707629 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Agree.  Part of me thinks that the motive is to provide public PR that there is no "fixing", which would then stop the inquiries into price smashes.  Bankers lie.  This is another lie for sure.


Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:48 | 4707960 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

They like to hide things 'in the open'.  Hence: The London Gold Price Fix.  Any one suggesting they actually *gulp* FIX the price is obviously a conspiracy theorist...  I prefer the term Skeptical Critic, to Conspiracy Theorist, personally.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:35 | 4707630 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture



Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:57 | 4707731 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

if you don't have the fixing, what do you have?

how about a fair and honest price discovery?

these guys make me laugh.  do they really think that resigning from the fix now will exonerate them for their previous fraud?  perhaps they are just looking to minimize the exposure.  too little too late.


Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:11 | 4707779 Confused
Confused's picture

As a matter of fact...... it will. Our collective memory is rather short. It wasn't too long ago that this was in the news, but for most, its rarely even mentioned. 


It starts here. Anyone who came after were meant to be the fall guys. 




Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:42 | 4707938 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

The Rothschilds got out 10 years ago, sure, but the manipulation has been going on since the 1980s when Terry Smeeton at the Bank of England manipulated the gold fixing price via the Rothschilds Chair (under the watchful eye of Oliver Page). In an ideal world the Rothschilds can't just think that because they got out 10 years ago, that they are scot free. But the Bank of England as the chief manipulator on behalf of the BIS will never let any investigation get near them or get near NM Rothschild.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:52 | 4707985 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The BIS, The BOE, The Fed, who do you think is behind them, hmmm???

Chief manipulator, BOE?  Yeah sure, but on whose behalf?

Wall St., City of London, Frankfurt.  They are all one, financially speaking.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 12:11 | 4708088 Confused
Confused's picture

Agreed. My only point is that who ever was left, was meant to be holding the bag. D-Bank will not be the last. Interestingly, someone further up in the comments asked if fewer participants equals more or less manipulation. I guess we will see. But like the final participants in musical chairs, fighting for that last seat, I'd imagine it will be a bit more intense. But I'm no expert. 


We as a society will only remember the last remaining players when (and if) the game comes to an end. 

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 14:10 | 4708769 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

Or to ask the real question:

~"So if everyone exits the London fixing market, what happens then?"~

Answer: Gold @ $3000 no bid.

Remember, it's only paper that they are offering in exchange.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 11:57 | 4708010 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Another gold scandal...
Another year of gold manipulation..
How many more months until 2015?

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:30 | 4707609 Dorelei
Dorelei's picture

Zerohedge should create a spin-off called leprechaun-hedge.com :

“On a long enough rainbow the gold rate for everyone rise to infinity”


While climbing to the top of mount Dharma, every morning while the sun rise and the clouds disappear in the valley, I can see the frightful show of millions of men and women prosternated and worshipping a giant  Uncle Scrooge gold statue…


How many sons killed their fathers for their gold ? How many brothers killed their sisters for their gold ? How many cities were burned down  for their gold ? How many Incas were beheaded for their gold ? How many teeth were snatched from freshly gassed hot bodies for their gold ??


Since the beginning of the human misery, this blood tainted barbarous relic has played a central role in our downfall.

Now all those multiple nuggets of doom are smelted together and stored or worn by the conspicuous sheeps to show their true allegiance to their voracious go(l)d.


I assume some of you found their gold during a fishing trip, probably lost by someone else during some boat accident !!

When you get back in your bunker-basement look at yourself in the mirror while holding the gold ,its  shinny light and dark power will make you feel almighty to do everything your inner self crave for!!

Whether it’s keeping it until the apocalypse or use it to buy guns,hookers or skyscrapers in the desert when it’s price fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinally skyrocket.


But one day, take your remaining gold and watch yourself in the mirror , your image will be deformed and you will see an old grey little man with big dark eyes whispering “My precious” !!

Instead of gold you will have in your hand a beating heart pumping the blood and tears of the countless souls that were exploited and enslaved to please the vanity of their abhorred ephemeral overlords !


One metal to rule them all, One metal to find them,

One metal to bring them all and in the darkness bind them !!

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:32 | 4707617 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

holy fuck... PCP is helluva drug.

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:34 | 4707627 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

How did he know I was using my stash to buy hookers for future me? Wierd. 

Tue, 04/29/2014 - 10:39 | 4707657 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



You can tell a real high class hooker if she only takes gold.

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