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Putin: 'US Behind Ukraine Crisis From The Beginning...Now Leading It'

Tyler Durden's picture


Having decided counter-sanctions are useless for now, reflecting on the uselessness of Western sanctions against his nation, Vladimir Putin warned, however, that if they continue he would "have to think about who is working in the key sectors of the Russian economy" - in other words, protectionism is coming. However, it is his ominous words regarding Washington's involvement in the crisis that appear to have fallen on deaf ears among the mainstream media... though will be no surprise to ZH readers "what is happening now shows us who really was mastering the process from the beginning. But in the beginning, the United States preferred to remain in the shadow." As Seregy Lavrov also added later in the day, the way the situation in Ukraine is reported in mainstream media indicates that "unfortunately, the information machine of our Western colleagues is working at full capacity."


As RT notes,

The US has been behind the Ukrainian crisis from the beginning, but was initially flying low, Russian President Vladimir Putin has told journalists, adding that he called on Kiev to establish an all-Ukrainian dialogue and find a compromise.


I think what is happening now shows us who really was mastering the process from the beginning. But in the beginning, the United States preferred to remain in the shadow,” Putin said, as quoted by RIA Novosti.


Putin stated that since the US has taken a lead role in resolving the political crisis in Ukraine, it is “telling that they originally were behind this process, but now they just have emerged as leaders” of it.


The "Maidan cookies" policy paves the way to a broader crisis, Putin warned, referring to US officials showing up in central Kiev and encouraging protesters during demonstrations.


“It is necessary to understand that the situation is serious and try to find serious approaches to the solution,” he said.


Putin said that he has called on Kiev to start an all-Ukrainian dialogue, adding that other countries should not be blamed for the crisis.


“[They should] treat equally the rights of those living in other areas of Ukraine, first of all, I mean, the east and southeast, establish a dialogue, find a compromise," he told journalists while speaking about the measures necessary to put an end to the crisis. “Here's what you need to do; searching for the guilty outside Ukraine is wrong.”

More "costs" as the West tries to wriggle its way from the under the pile it has created and scapegoat an unwilling to play Russia...?


But perhaps Sergey Lavrov said it perfectly...

Washington's approach to the events in Ukraine is not fueled by concerns about the fate of the crisis-torn state, but rather by the desire to prove it is still running the show worldwide, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said.


The way the situation in Ukraine is reported in mainstream media indicates that “unfortunately, the information machine of our Western colleagues is working at full capacity,” Lavrov said following talks with his Chilean counterpart, Heraldo Munoz, in Santiago.


The US is trying to shape public opinion in a specific manner “because they are not concerned by the fate of Ukraine in the first place, but have strong desire to prove that it’s them who decides how things should be – always and everywhere,” Lavrov stated.


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Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:43 | 4712827 Major Major Major
Major Major Major's picture

Fuck the EU!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:46 | 4712831 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Fuck the EU/USSA/Nulandites/Nazi's who destroyed a beautiful and tragic country, turning it into a political corpse, the EU/USSA and Russian Jackals fighting over the kill.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:48 | 4712844 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Yeah, man. Right on. Fuck those assholes blaming 70 years of communism for this basketcase, man.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:52 | 4712855 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

...The US Dollar is teetering on collapse friends.
Washington/Israel's "Last Chance, False Flag event will be something very big"

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:53 | 4712860 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Yep, MH370 was on deck for that event but the air came out of that balloon.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:57 | 4712875 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Yep, it was a good distraction, but ultimately futile.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:40 | 4713157 Cap Matifou
Cap Matifou's picture

The leaked Klitschko emails told you all what to expect.

09 Jan 2014: I think we've paved the way for more radical escalation of the situation. Isn't it time to proceed with more decisive actions?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:49 | 4713692 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Warning! Statist sparring below. Proceed at own risk.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:12 | 4713771 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Barack Obama, that feckless, sophomoric, incompetent boob, is the Propagandist in Chief of the United States of America. 

We Americans are forced to swim in propaganda like citizens of no country in history.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:35 | 4713849 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

If Putin should say anything ugly about our commander and chief, even if in private, and if one of the other people in the room happen to be recording the conversation, and if that other person happens to be a disgruntled girlfriend that has been hanging around with our commander and chief, and even if the disgruntled girlfriend and our commander and chief say they weren't the people recording Putins tantrum, they may be able to make him sell Russia to us.

Basketball bitchez..

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:33 | 4714023 chapaev's ghost
chapaev's ghost's picture

Here's a little snippet from Wikipedia on an old friend of mine, Armand Hammer, a steadfast ally to the glorious cause of international socialst revolution. (Barky Boomer is now the leader of the movement ol' Armand helped start)

Hammer was born in New York City, to Ukrainian-born Jewish immigrants Julius and Rose (Lipshitz) Hammer.[6][7] His father came to the United States from Odessa in the Russian Empire (today Ukraine) in 1875, and settled in The Bronx, where he ran a general medical practice and five drugstores.

Hammer claimed that his father had named him after a character, Armand Duval, in La Dame aux Camélias, a novel by Alexandre Dumas, fils. According to other sources, Hammer was named after the "arm and hammer" graphic symbol of the Socialist Labor Party of America (SLP), in which his father had a leadership role.[8] (After the Russian Revolution, a part of the SLP under Julius' leadership split off to become a founding element of the Communist Party USA.) Later in his life, Hammer confirmed that this was the origin of his given name.[2]

Hammer attended Morris High School, Columbia College (B.A., 1919) where he was a member of the Zeta Beta Tau fraternity, and then attended medical school at Columbia (M.D., 1921). When his father was sentenced to prison as he entered medical school, he and his brothers took Allied Drug, the family business, to new heights, reselling equipment they had bought at depressed prices at the end of World War I. According to Hammer, his first business success was in 1919, manufacturing and selling a ginger extract which legally contained high levels of alcohol. This was extremely popular during prohibition, and the company had $1 million in sales that year.

Years in the Soviet Union

In 1921, while waiting for his internship to begin at Bellevue Hospital, Hammer went to the Soviet Union for a trip that lasted until late 1930.[9] Although his career in medicine was cut short, he relished being referred to as "Dr. Hammer". Hammer's intentions in the 1921 trip have been debated since. He has claimed that he originally intended to recoup $150,000 in debts for drugs shipped during the Allied intervention, but was soon moved by a capitalistic and philanthropic interest in selling wheat to the then-starving Russians.[10] In his passport application, Hammer stated that he intended to visit only western Europe.[11] J. Edgar Hoover in the Justice Department knew this was false, but Hammer was allowed to travel anyway.[12] A skeptical U.S. government watched him through this trip, and for the rest of his life.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:35 | 4714042 chapaev's ghost
chapaev's ghost's picture

Rememer the key words: J__, Ukraine, Columbia University, Odessa (Ukraine), Soviet Union, Communist Party etc.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:53 | 4714222 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

When I was young, I remember people saying that the U.S. used Mr. Hammer as a go between during much of the cold war, being as he was respected by some Russians in high places. It pays all around to keep ties and options open. Our government could learn a lesson or two from the man, just MHO.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:33 | 4713850 Flux
Flux's picture

And if you can't believe the Russians, who can you?



Just saying.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:25 | 4714004 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Well, given the hard evidence that has come to light over just who funded and instigated the unrest in Ukraine, I would say Putin... Who were you thinking, Obama? 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:12 | 4713193 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

Of course the Ukraine crisis is all US' fault. It's not like Russia benefited in any way from the crisis, like you know, extending its territory by annexing part of a foreign country.


And it's also entirely US' fault if the Ukrainian people decided, en masse, to tell their president, a model of integrity and honesty, to get the hell out as he just told the Europeans to screw themselves and instead give his country and its long term interests to Putin on a golden plate.


When the iron curtain dropped, Ukraine had a far more advanced economy than other former soviet republics like Poland. Look at the situation today... say what you want about the EU, but at least it elevated the living conditions of the citizens of the countries that joined it. No wonder Ukrainians want to join the EU instead of the Russian free trade zone...


And by the way, it's also the US' fault if there is only negligible popular support to the pro-russian "fighters" in east Ukraine... unlike what happened in Kiev a few months ago.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:37 | 4713429 AlgorithmOfCons...
AlgorithmOfConsciousness's picture

You are either misinformed and ignorant, or purposefully towing the State Department line.  Ukrainians did not decide "en masse" to do anything.  It appears you have succumbed to the thorough and complete illusion painted for you by the Western media imagery.  As with any internal revolutions and upheavels, a third of people want change, a third don't care, and a third want the status quo.  The fact that you ignore the coup artists of the State Department that funneled up to $5 billion into Ukraine (per Nuland's words) and the US and EU "leaders" from government and intelligence that have made a series of "cameo appearances" in Ukraine, is telling.  Moreover, you ignore the Ukrainian history and its ties to Russia (Kievan Rus), and the fact that Ukraine was never an independent country until recently, and historically, a creation of Germany in WWI as a divisive tool aimed at Russia.  What happened in Kiev is because Yanukovich did not use force against the Maidan fascist goons. 

It's amusing how during Maidan, the Western presstitudes kept harping about how Yanukovich should not use lethal force to take back the occupied government buildings to drive out the fascist brown shirts, yet now that the American Empire is firmly in control of Ukraine, they and their media lapdogs are okay with having the fascist goons use force to retake government buildings.  I suggest you look to see beyond the shadow of Plato's cave.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:45 | 4713575 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

"It appears you have succumbed to the thorough and complete illusion painted for you by the Western media imagery."

Yes, because obviously only ZH convey the absolute truth, where, I guess, you get all your information from... ZH is never wrong on anything of course, and doesn't have its very own way to manipulate facts... One comical example I have in mind is an article in which it was saying France was getting defeated in Mali... I dared to call them on their BS and I had an army of ZH zealots, just like you, explaining me how wrong I was. I'm still laughing about that story.


"As with any internal revolutions and upheavels, a third of people want change, a third don't care, and a third want the status quo."

Did you just pull that out of your ass? Have you even talked to an Ukrainian about it? Ask any of them with half a brain if they'd rather be part of a Russian-led trade union or part of the EU...


"The fact that you ignore the coup artists of the State Department that funneled up to $5 billion into Ukraine (per Nuland's words) and the US and EU "leaders" from government and intelligence that have made a series of "cameo appearances" in Ukraine, is telling. "

And Russia didn't have any under Yanukovic rule? And the Russian intervention in Crimea with its special forces was free? give me a break.


"Moreover, you ignore the Ukrainian history and its ties to Russia (Kievan Rus), and the fact that Ukraine was never an independent country until recently, and historically, a creation of Germany in WWI as a divisive tool aimed at Russia."

After reading that, I feel a little better about my own "ignorance"...


"What happened in Kiev is because Yanukovich did not use force against the Maidan fascist goons. "

Yeah, and no unarmed protesters died and police and militias where just exchanging kisses and flowers, right?


See, I trust no more the mainstream media than ZH when it comes to reporting news. ZH does have an agenda too, it just happen to be different. I'd rather stick to the fact that, so far, it's Russia, with the annexion of Crimea, that is benefiting the most from the crisis, and I wouldn't be so quick to blame all the faults on the US.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:55 | 4713678 AlgorithmOfCons...
AlgorithmOfConsciousness's picture

>>>"Yes, because obviously only ZH convey the absolute truth, where is, I guess, you only get all your information from... ZH is never wrong on anything of course, and doesn't have its very own way to manipulate facts... One comical example I have in mind is an article in which it was saying France was getting defeated in Mali... I dared to call them on their BS and I had an army of ZH zealots, just like you, explaining me how wrong I was. I'm still laughing about that story.">>>

Assuming I only read ZH for the sake of argument is a straw-man fallacy on your part, and reflects your inability to engage in complex analysis and account for other variables.  However, this sort of myopia is prevalent among limited Western thinking.  Nothing in my post referred to ZH aside from the fact that I made a post on ZH. 

>>>"Did you just pull that out of your ass? Have you even talk to an Ukrainian about it? Ask any of them with half a brain if they'd rather be part of a Russian-led trade union or part of the EU...">>>

This sort of childish pontificating that professes to know what the "average Ukrainian" is or is not thinking is not conducive to an overall understanding of the situation.  Remeber, Ukraine was never an independent country until 1991, and the "nationality" was further created in World War I. That there was genuine societal discontent among Western Ukrainians against Yanukovich's government is not denied, but at the same token, you cannot deny there was a democratically elected government.  However, the US intelligence apparatus is able to permeate, co-opt and penetrate these popular movements, much like in the Arab Spring, and use it to its own leverage and advantage, through many pipeline NGO organizations such as NED, USAID and other institutions of subversion.  This is why Putin required these NGOs to register as foreign agents.  Russia has a long history of foreign subversion that crippled their country and culture thanks to the Bolsheviks and Lenin (a German spy).

>>>And Russia didn't have any under Yanukovic rule? And the Russian intervention in Crimea with its special forces was free? give me a break.">>>

International relations and politics have long recognized spheres of influence, much to the dismay of ignorant Americans who cannot even point Ukraine on a map, but wish to intervene.  If Russia attempted subversion in Mexico or Canada and funded a hostile regime via a coup, international rules recognize that the U.S. would react and attempt to counteract that balance of power.  This is what Russia is doing.  That is the way it goes, I cannot change it.  Russia's annexation of Crimea was done in a bloodless manner and with the popular support of a majority of those folks.  If they did not want to, they would have revolted and we would have violence bynow.  But this does not prevent you from making bombastic claims that Crimea was "forced" to join Russia.

>>>"After reading that, I feel a little better about my own "ignorance"...">>>

I'm sorry you do not like opposing views.

>>>Yeah, and no unarmed protesters died and police and militias where just exchanging kisses and flowers, right?>>>

Did anyone say protesters did not die? It seems that you are very keen on resorting to straw-man fallacies to have something to argue about to compensate for your lack of substance. If you are referring to the Maidan snipers, well, the jury is out on that one, as evidence seems to point to the fact that these snipers were agent saboteurs of NATO's fascist clique.

>>>See, I trust no more the mainstream media than ZH when it comes to reporting news. ZH does have an agenda too, it just happen to be different. I'd rather stick to the fact that, so far, it's Russia, with the annexion of Crimea, that is benefiting the most from the crisis, and I wouldn't be so quick to blame all the faults on the US.>>>

This further immortalizes your ignorance. This idea that "everyone has an agenda" therefore, "nothing is believable" implies that somehow, somewhere, there exists this mythical objective outlet of communication.  There is no such thing as a news source without an agenda.  This idea of objectivity was a myth propogated all along by the Western press, that was spread for so long, and people heard this since birth from every orifice of communication, that they believed in this myth.  Although there exists an objective physical world, we all perceive it subjectively.  The devil is in the details.  How one deciphers and arrives at truth is based on reading multiple sources of different news wires, corroborating information, comparing and contrasting information, and accounting for differences of analysis as it relates to misrepresentations, concealments and contradictions.  Unfortunately, this requires use of your brain and takes more work than having someone spoonfeed you your "objective news" that is "without an agenda."

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:00 | 4713724 fishmonger
fishmonger's picture

So, what do you guys think about this Ukraine/Russia dustup I have been hearing about??

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:07 | 4714141 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

If I could only give you +2!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:09 | 4713758 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In the end, the objective report exists as the crossing of multiple sources.

Ah, 'americans' and their taste for propaganda...

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:11 | 4713766 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Ah, AnAnonymous and his taste for condescension. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:23 | 4713775 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

"In the end, the objective report exists as the crossing of multiple sources."

Preferably those that have no (or minimal) vested interests in reporting one way or another. This is usually where you would get the most "objective" and balanced reporting. But that means being able to speak other languages than English, which is, as we know, not the strength of the average american...


"Ah, 'americans' and their taste for propaganda..."

Funny, eh?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:17 | 4714150 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

Human beings are not capable of "objective and balanced reporting."  When a person looks at a thing, there is always an angle, intentional or not.  Having no vested interests does not change this.  Even reporting both sides of an argument is not balanced because a line has to be drawn to separate the "for" and "against" camps, and where the line is drawn depends on the perspective.

The sooner you realize this, the better off you are.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:38 | 4713852 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

Hey there, AnAnonymous,

How's trix? Long time, huh?

Oh...and go fuck yourself, you tool !;o)


Aawww...look at that...he down-arrowed me !:O)

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:24 | 4713823 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Face it.  If you're caught in the middle between two huge battling behemoths you're screwed.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:59 | 4713929 Flux
Flux's picture

True, and on that note:

Quoting Russia Today and Sergey Lavrov is kinda like quoting Fox "News" and Dick Cheney.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:30 | 4714349 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Amazing how many one week to one month old, pro-Putin voices we have around here lately.

Its like, the KGB is the "good spy" to the CIA's "bad spy" in Mad Magazine (goggle it kiddies). Its like, Putin was never stationed in East Germany (Stasi-Land) and the popular mayor of St.Petersburg (Anatoly Sobchak, Putins mentor) dies of a heart attack...oddly enough, after a meeting with Putin.

Palace intrigue ;-)

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:41 | 4714385 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Well argued and decisive take down Algorithm. Welcome and please make yourself at home here.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:37 | 4713430 booboo
booboo's picture

"Annexed "??? I thought you toads just loved democracy until it dont go your way. i was sure they voted for that. And elevating the living conditions" via debt servitude to be paid for by.... Who? with what?? Lemme guess, you're a banker?
I guess we are down to voting for the least culpable thug ruler at this point.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:41 | 4713441 Zerozen
Zerozen's picture

What's interesting about these pro-US, anti-Russia posters like yourself is how often you manage to just plain fuck up the facts. e.g. 1) Poland was never a Soviet republic and 2) Ukraine didn't have a "far more" advanced economy, if anything the overall best industrial base around the time of the fall of the USSR was in the Baltic states.

The Ukrainian people didn't kick out the president en masse. It was a relatively small and violent coup led by far-right political groups as the muscle. In case you forgot, Yanukovich was elected in 2010, just 4 years ago, because the pro-West harlot who ran the country before him was also incredibly corrupt.

Ukraine/Russia have been intertwined for centuries and will continue to be, wishful thinking from Maidanistas like yourself aside. Most of Ukraine's exports are sold in Russia, in turn it gets almost all of its energy from Russia, it sits next to Russia, etc. etc.

The EU is another matter entirely. It hasn't done anything for its peripheral countries. The SOP is like this: poor perihperal country joins EU. EU encourages/forces dismantling of any industry or business in new member nation. EU core countries now export their products to new member nation, new member nation gets EU loans (scraps from the table), young people in new member nation leave en masse to find work elsewhere because any business/industry has been scrapped to please Brussels.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:43 | 4713653 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

"1) Poland was never a Soviet republic"

Because everybody knows that behind the iron curtain, all non-USSR republics were all democracies enjoying political freedom, free and fair election, etc. right?


"2) Ukraine didn't have a "far more" advanced economy, if anything the overall best industrial base around the time of the fall of the USSR was in the Baltic states."

There's that and then there's facts...

Ukraine: GDP per capita 1990: 1.569 thousands USD; GDP per capita 2012: 3.866 thousands USD

Poland: GDP per capita 1990: 1.693 thousands USD; GDP per capita 2012: 12.707 thousands USD

Granted, at the end of the soviet union, Poland had a slight edge. And now? Need I say more?


"The Ukrainian people didn't kick out the president en masse. It was a relatively small and violent coup led by far-right political groups as the muscle."

So, all it takes to be right is to repeat ad nauseum whatever "information" is coming out of Russia and diligently parroted by ZH? All right then.


"Ukraine/Russia have been intertwined for centuries and will continue to be"

Nobody is saying anything different... not even the US or the new rulers in Ukraine.


"The EU is another matter entirely. It hasn't done anything for its peripheral countries."

Pure BS, see above.


"any business/industry has been scrapped to please Brussels."

And did you pull that out of your ass as well? It's funny to read that kind of BS because back when the US extended from 15 to 25 countries, the population in western EU countries where complaining that a lot of industries  where relocating to eastern europe because of the vast difference it wages. Do you know where cars are manufactured in Europe nowadays? You should try to inform yourself a bit before arguing about things you know nothing about.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:53 | 4713699 john39
john39's picture

by your logic, the U.S. government should have disbanded and fled a couple years ago during the occupy wall street protests, right?

Ukraine had a coup, plain and simple.  But why argue about it.  pointless waste of time.  Give the people the power to vote on their future if you are so sure Russia is controlling everything...  of course we know that the west would never allow it, knowing that the outcome would be to dump the kiev coup regime.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:56 | 4713711 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

"Give the people the power to vote on their future if you are so sure Russia is controlling everything..."


Then explain me why is Russia doing everything to prevent new general elections in May?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:13 | 4713774 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

"Then explain me why is Russia doing everything to prevent new general elections in May?"

Russia doesn't control the elctions in Ukraine. The Ukrainians who are being paid by the American government do. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:40 | 4713865 Zerozen
Zerozen's picture

And did you pull that out of your ass as well? It's funny to read that kind of BS because back when the US extended from 15 to 25 countries, the population in western EU countries where complaining that a lot of industries where relocating to eastern europe because of the vast difference it wages. Do you know where cars are manufactured in Europe nowadays? You should try to inform yourself a bit before arguing about things you know nothing about.

I didn't pull that out of my ass, dipshit. I have family in both western and so-called peripheral Europe. I visit there every year. Just about every European knows this is what the EU exists for - to serve the core. It's an open secret. All the late joiners have been either selling out or tearing down industry and even agricultural production en masse just to gain entrance to the club and once they get there, they survive on EU development loans, i.e. vendor financing. I see this in person when I visit over there, say, in Croatia, where the government is trying to shut down the Rijeka shipyard by any means possible at the urging of Brussels because Brussels has decided it doesn't need more competition/shipyards, despite the fact that the Rijeka shipyards are profitable. Literally every single bank over there is now owned by foreigners - the profits of banking flow to Vienna and Frankfurt, not to Zagreb. Another little example: grocery stores carrying western agricultural products while farms all over eastern Europe that produce cheaper and probably better products lie fallow because they don't meet some bullshit bureaucratic regulations dictated by Brussels.

There is only one eastern country for whom the EU has kind of worked out economically and that is Poland - they did a much better job of negotiating their entry into the club. For just about everyone else, it's been a fast road to nowhere.

Eastern Europe gets VW factories, imported cheese, and debt.

The core gets new markets to export to, assets  in eastern countries picked up on the cheap from corrupt politicians, and all the profits flow back to Paris/Frankfurt/Amsterdam/etc. Some fucking dream.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:50 | 4713904 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Don't forget about how high unemployment is in places like Greece and Spain.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:12 | 4713963 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I replied simply to upvote what you said.

There are no good guys in this fight. Eastern Europe is faced with shitty choices: become a vassal state to a corrupt and greedy EU, or join the outside-looking-in club that Putin is trying to get started. The problem with Putin's club is that you are joining a bunch of countries whose human capital became severely degraded by 70 years of communism.

Anybody who has spent time in the former Soviet Union knows just how profoundly the legacy of communism has wrecked the personal productivity and general morale of the people there even to this day. It will take several generations before those demons are fully exercised.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:14 | 4714138 Continue With This
Continue With This's picture

I'm from EE, from a country that was part of the Iron Curtain, though not a soviet one, and let me tell you this:

  • after my country joined the EU, the quality of life improved, not dramatically, but it did improved
  • politicians now fear someone, the EU. Before that, it was just like Ukraine, a crony political class that didn't answer to anyone. Of course, there is a downside to this.

Every law that the public doesn't like, the politicians try to sell it as "Bruxxeless demands it", when in many cases EU has nothing to do with it.

  • the pressure on the judicial system put by the EU, to force the judicial system to be less corrupt is great and mostly good for us.

We now have our ex Romanian prime minister, a man that was feared throughout 2000-2004, a man that threatened journalists, one was killed, a man that got immense kickbacks, about 100 millions euros, to sell PETROM (Romanian oil state company) to OMV (Austria) in fucking jail. Lately the Romanian judicial system starting working quite good, putting in jail many corrupt people, and the EU is the driving force behind that.


The majority of Romanians want to be part of the EU.

It's the old pensioners, people that weren't very productive during communist era, that somehow don't like EU that much, but they will gladly fight for EU money.


Take for example the Romanian Orthodox Church. In the region in the north of Romania, Bukovina, where I'm from, there are some very old Orthodox monasteries that need repairing. Some of them are declared UNESCO monuments. EU is giving free money to help the repairing and the reconstruction of the monasteries, and also free money for rural tourisms development in that region.

What does the Church do? Takes the money gladly.

What does the Church say about the EU? That is the creation of Satan.

Hypocrisy much?

Many that never lived in EE think that being under Russia's umbrella is something good, mostly because they perceive Putin as some white Christian knight that somehow is fighting for the forces of good.


I invite you to go to Russia for one year. Then go to Poland, Czech Republic, Croatia or Slovakia for one year. Even Romania for one year.

And you will notice that the quality of life is better in all countries than in Russia. In countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia the quality of life is almost at 90% level of the Western countries.


During the Iron Curtain, Ukraine was way more developed than Poland, and Czech and Slovaks, even Romania.

Now Ukrainians look at Poles and Czech with envy. Even us Romanians look at them with envy. Even in Romania, the quality of life is better than in Ukraine.

We look at them and see the benefits of having a good political class after 89' when they removed many ex-communists in power.

We, the Romanians, had the bloodiest "revolution" in 89 but we did not removed the ex-communists from power.


The West is not perfect, but is way better that what Russia offers.

 Everyone I know in Romania drives a German/French car.

Wear German/American made clothes (Nike, Adidas, Reebok).

Watches American movies and comedies.

Listen to American/British pop music.

Uses American Internet and American technology.

The only product we buy from Russia is natgas, and that is only 20% of our need. We have quite a good amount of gas. Actually we are the fifth natgas country in EU in terms of reserves.


I wish Russia was this great democratic nation, that sold cars tvs, made great movies to watch, made great music to listen to, etc etc. But it isn't.

I try not to hate the Russian people, after all they are Orthodox just like us, and in the End Times we the Orthodox Christians will need to stand together united against the forces of neo-protestantism and zionism.

But the Russian army and Russian rulers did a lot of evil things to Romania, and other EE countries, that it is very difficult for us to forget and easily forgive.


I know the Zionist Western elite are bad. But life, in the West, is way better that in the East, no matter how you look at it.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 18:51 | 4722205 standors
standors's picture

P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

USSR/Russias best friends which imported USSR ideas/regime:


North Korea,


Ost Germany

you could  compare what progress made West influenced countries South Korea, West Germany  vs USSR friends North Korea, Ost Germany.

In some extent compare also China vs Hongkong, Taiwan.

USSRs East Europe ( Poland, Slovakia, Czech rep., Ungarn, Ost Germany, Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania )  versus West Europa ( Germany, French, Finland, Italy, Spain, Netherland, Austria, ...)

If some citizens of former East EU block wanted to escape to West they was killed by border patrol (patrol was really instructed better kill them than to let them escape to West ), otherwise almost all citizens of OST block would flee to West.

I know EU/USA is far from perfect, I agree with large part of criticism of West, but I simply can't empathize to Russia just from this reason West system is bad. My experience is that Russia is considerably worse.

The citizens of previous OST EU countries ( now members of EU ) live now much, much better than they would in partnership with Russia.

Just imagine if you would have only 2 options: to live in Russia or US/EU?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:43 | 4714067 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture


But EU will at least not put a 50% racketeering charge on exports, which is what Firtlash was charging the locals in some areas. So its two and change and half the other, I think many if they did not have a Spetnaz gun to their head, and were being paid alot to stand around would very happily join the EU for the jobs. Which is where they go to work anyways, and send cash back home to Lugansk.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:08 | 4713520 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Fortunate Fool ?

Just a fool ! Nothing "fortunate" about him... 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:36 | 4713859 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

...or just a tool...

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:52 | 4713912 nicxios
nicxios's picture

Fortunate Fool either you are a massive idiot, or a good troll.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:37 | 4714199 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Cool story, bro

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:59 | 4712876 CH1
CH1's picture

Putin may be a vile gangster, but in this case he speaks the truth.

Hell, we have the proof on tape!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:12 | 4712973 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Obama promised, on a hot mic, more flexibility after the 2012 election. We have that on tape. Not turning out quite as true as Putin thought, but true enough. Iran will get nukes and deals. US backed away from Syria.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:01 | 4713503 giggler321
giggler321's picture

After reading more about Iran and Syria it is clear that they are using the old divide and conquer technique.  When they threatened Syria they were doing so against Iran, Lebanese Hezbollah and Russia + possibly at the time Egypt with Morsi if things didn't playout there way.  That is a handful to take on but why bother when removing one at a time is far easier.  Right now they've decided the next step should be with Russia.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:11 | 4713533 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Right now they've decided the next step should be with Russia.

Good luck with that one ! 

Arrogant fools...

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:18 | 4713560 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Which "they" is doing all this?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:13 | 4712979 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Most people in the US have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say there's proof on tape.

Everyone is familiar with Goebbels' "Big Lie," but lying by omission is just as effective. This Ukraine fiasco should prove once and for all that the media in the US are completely in bed with the government.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:25 | 4713050 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Oh, got it. All this time I thought media was part of the oligarchy and Government was its bitch. Geez, I'm slow.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:15 | 4713548 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Once and for all?  Christ.  Pay attention please.  Go back to, say, CIA establishing itself in the 50's.  Kennedy assasination in the 60's.  And doubltless much much earlier than that.  The media was absolutely complicit in allowing government overthrows by the CIA, first overseas then in the US.  And that is just an example.

The media has never not been compromised by backroom government.  Their interests have always been indistinguishable.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:23 | 4713577 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Yeah man, it's like in that Oliver Stone flic with the Waterworld guy in it. All the bad organizations had a hand killing JFK: mafia, supreme court, Dallas police, FBI, the MIC, and that flaming homo CIA spook down in the big easy, and Kevin Bacon.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:53 | 4713701 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

That movie was surprisingly accurate according to the actual detective that wrote the book. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:24 | 4714329 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

That guy is unbiased for sure. It must all be true then.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:59 | 4712894 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Ukraines got cookies.  And all we got was WWIII. 

Can I haz cheeseburger now?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:16 | 4713000 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Say, have they found it yet or is it still in the hanger at Diego Garcia?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:26 | 4714337 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

"Transformers" is fictional dude

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:28 | 4713068 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

The media has lost interest, but the air has not come out of that balloon.  A couple of points to ponder:

1. To believe that the US Navy couldn't hear the ULB (underwater locator beacon) is absurd.  It's made to be heard, and they are made to listen.

2. To believe that a distressed pilot/co-pilot would have commandered the plane, disabled the transponders, plotted a radar evading course, and then just flew on for at least seven hours just to splash it in the Indian ocean is again beyond belief.

3. To believe that it was a conspiracy to kill or capture anyone on the plane, or any cargo that it was carrying, please think how much easier it would have to steal a taxi, or a delivery van, as opposed to a commercial airliner. 

The real question is since we have a pair of Muslim's at the controls, is it the Saudi's getting ready for Iran, or Iran getting ready for the Saudi's.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:42 | 4713172 Blano
Blano's picture

My thoughts exactly re: the ULB.

The Navy can hear a Russian sub going 20 knots and running near silent from 1,000 miles away, but they can't hear a plane hitting the water at 500 MPH??????  I just don't believe it.

That's why I say that thing is parked somewhere.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:39 | 4713437 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

SOSUS is very effective but it has limitations.  They may or may not be able to hear a sub going 20kts depending on what it is doing and how old it is.


A plane hitting the water would make a great noise.  That is very true.  But what does it sound like?  There are a lot of strange noises in the ocean and a lot of stuff makes transient noises.  It would be hard to figure out that a particular big noise was that event.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:38 | 4713863 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

True, but the beacon is set to a very specific frequency designed as a non-natural sound amongst the other ocean sounds.  I agree, likely didn't hear the impact (assuming there was one) but no way they missed the pinging.  Not when they are supposedly looking for it.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:44 | 4714072 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

A ULB, like any other gadget, may or may not work on any given day.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:43 | 4714068 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Surface noises are frequently lost to density layer transitions on the way to the bottom. Also as the other poster points out a single sound is not actually interpretable. The computer can build up a recognizable profile of a particular class of Sub. or even a particular Sub. after listening for a awhile to the ongoing sound fall; one splash may mean something or nothing; or may not even be recorded as an event; most of the intelligence in the recording channel is devoted to tuning out irrelevant noise.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:34 | 4714034 navy62802
navy62802's picture


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:01 | 4712884 kurt
kurt's picture

That's what they announced in the closed door emergency fed meeting. Remember Rahm or was is Rubin, "We're going to kill the dollar."

You know who the perps are.

Why don't you do anything?

Can't, can you, you feed the NSA database directly to the perpetrators.

You need to build a shell or firewall for actions to restore our Constitution and defend the People of the United States.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:18 | 4713012 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

The dollar is corrupt now and it is corrupt if it fails.  If it fails it will just help expose the crimes of the criminal class and it won't be nearly as hard to find volunteers for the firing squads.  Making a move today will be much harder since the SNAP/EBT/QE/Whatever is still flowing.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:37 | 4713139 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Interesting how "patriots" get worked up over one guy's ranch but ignore Zero regime taking entire country into communism.

"Just so's they don't come after mah guns."

That's all that matters. Their precious guns.

Everything else can turn to shit. Kim Jong Obama in the white house. All rights stripped away. Taxed right into poverty. Economy destroyed. Nation asset-stripped by govt and wall street.

Just don't go after their precious guns.

America is the first communist nation with 400 million privately owned guns.

Behave, keep paying those heavy taxes, and they'll let you keep those guns.

They really want the money. Long as the money comes in they really don't care about the guns.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:41 | 4713167 Incubus
Incubus's picture

don't forget the porn.


give them their guns and their porn.  taxe them to hell, just don't force them from their primitive senses of security and sex.  food has always been adressed. 


Obese gun-loving fornicating assholes who saw a "great" country destroyed before their eyes and did nothing.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:14 | 4713330 kurt
kurt's picture

More Bloomberg $50 million

BTW John Stewart spent his entire show on an anti-gun rant. I wonder how much he got for that.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:21 | 4713337 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Incubus and Drifter - I don't see a correlarion here in America between obesity and guns. Gun owners tend to be more balanced than cheez-doodle porn watchers. Freedom leads to success, then apathy then despotism. This happens to all nations. They all fall from within at the end of the day, invasion happens after its political operatives loot the system. American citizens (including myself) were apathetic in the 1990's when bank-led NWO went into full gear.

To be fair, there were details about who really pulls the strings of the US that the vast majority were just not aware of. You do know how elections are run and bought? Who gets to run is decided by an electoral college. Rich and connected people in other words. Like most people they vote their interests. If they benefit from political looting turning a blind eye starts there, not with a population who vote in the general election.

Many I talked to by 2004 were just saying they would hold their nose when voting. The real productive wealth was shipped east. The moment China got favored nation whooosh giant sucking sound almost literally overnight. Debt issuance masked the productive portion of the economy heading east for several year. That included jobs that paid $100k then which now pay $50k. People had to start scrambling faster after 2001 and really fast after 2008 just to put food on the table.

The first part of a nations reform is to educate the people. Having perhaps 3% of the population aware of what was really going on in 2008 is more like 50% now. The other 50% don't want to know they are doing fine with government subsidy of some form. But half the population cannot afford the deep promises made to the other half so up go the taxes for the productive. Full frontal attack on empires is suicide. NDAA is a law that says the US government claims the right of kings, to kill any American or anybody else abroad without due process. Better to let the empire burn out as it is as China was funded to become the new empire and attempt real reform as political power ebbs from not being able to print to buy elections in one form or another.

YES. Americans with guns are going to show up now when government attempts confiscation like at the Bundy ranch. The people will try reform for a little while longer in my opinion without the use of force. That is a wise decision - for now.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:45 | 4713681 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture



So far I haven't seen you do shit about it either. 

The 'obese gun and porn lovers' got off their ass and drove to Nevada and stood face to face with armed troops. Nevada offered a tangible issue with a fixed location. That's a much easier to tackle situation than a digitized Fed operation to electronically print fiat. 

All of us obese gun and porn lovers are ready to follow your lead. Just let us know who you are and what your plan is. You fucking prick. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:13 | 4713325 kurt
kurt's picture

I see Bloomberg's $50 million has hit the streets.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:30 | 4713398 Gold Eyed Cat
Gold Eyed Cat's picture

What the hell did you do about it? And what is your problem with gun owners?

We supported people we thought were good conservatives.  We ran them.  We voted for them.  We yelled at  them.  We went to Tea Party rallies and sent emails, letters and posted on Facebook.  No one in Washington gives a rat's ass.  They are so far removed and insulated and protected, it's like they are on another planet.

Plus there is SO much fucked up it is nearly impossible to coordinate any useful defense or attack.  How does a dog fight off a million blood sucking ticks?  But come for his teeth and you will get bit.  

Isn't that why we come here to read about collapse?  We feel it's too far gone to save.  And we know nothing better can be built until the old mess is cleared away.

Didn't you feel pity for the young Occupy Wallstreet fools who went out into the street and screamed their heads off, but couldn't even articulate a single useful demand?  The problem is so fucking huge, they couldn't even wrap their heads around it.  All they know is they have been screwed, by a few very elite jackasses they can't touch.  

But maybe some of those angry young people went and purchased a rifle and learned to shoot and hunt.  It will be a good skill to have when a chicken costs $100 and the backyard is full of squirrels.   



Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:55 | 4714422 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"What the hell did you do about it?"

Do about what? Bundy thing? There's nothing to do about it in Bunkerville when the orders come from DC, and he'll lose that ranch eventually, one example of govt asset-stripping the country I mentioned.

"And what is your problem with gun owners?"

I have no problem with guns. I have a problem with gun owners sitting idle watching the nation turn to shit long as they can keep them guns. That's the hypocrisy part.

"Plus there is SO much fucked up it is nearly impossible to coordinate any useful defense or attack. "

Yes I agree. How do you attack a corrupt regime employing 2 million people spread out all over the country, with another 150 million die-hard supporters?

It's impossible. Yet those fake "patriots" keep saying they're gonna do it some day, gonna "take America back".

I wish they'd shut the fuck up about "taking America back", they'll never do it, it's impossible to do it. America will go full communist in spite of those 400 million guns. We're pretty much there now.

Woo hoo, big victory, they made BLM back down in Bunkerville. Temporarily. BLM will be back with multiple 3 letter agencies in tow, those "patriots" will be arrested or shot, Bundy will be evicted, simple as that.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:05 | 4714281 Slave
Slave's picture

That's a strange amount of upvotes for an anti-gun comment on this website. I wonder what these people are going to defend their gold, silver, food, and water with when the collapse happens. Oh, I bet they don't have those things either...

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:08 | 4713755 Mr. Delicious
Mr. Delicious's picture

Israel, The Eternal Victim and Chosen Amongst The Nations, will continue to attack bridges and police stations and the occasional Hezbollah resistance fighter, and when Hez or maybe even the Lebanese finally retaliate beyond a token shell, they will recommence their efforts to annex Lebanon to the Litani, and will destroy and kill as much as they can, knowing the UN will not punish them for DELIBERATE and UNEQUIVOCAL war crimes, and that they can count on a Zionist-infested US government and largely *Jewish*-controlled media to support the "right of Israel to defend itself."


This happens because people would rather a thousand kids die than be called an "anti-Semite" by racist warmongering chickenshit fuckin' pussy asshole Jewish groups and/or their Shabbas Goy confederates.


I hope Russia gives Lebanon some backpack nukes.


Fuck Israel, and fuck its 5th Column.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:21 | 4714167 Continue With This
Continue With This's picture

When you say fuck Israel, what you are saying is also Fuck its american poodle the USA

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:24 | 4714002 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture


Absolutely. Spot on! Sampson Option. It's on.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:46 | 4714220 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

China is not happy with the U.S. and Obama's visit, they said it damaged their relationship.  China and Russia are taking the lead in the London commodities market and price fixing of metals.  It will be interesting to see what they do.. continue the smashes or let it go.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:51 | 4712846 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Up  Putin: crafty,  brilliant KGB Colonel who would boil his own mother in oil to win

Down  Obama:  Biracial Bisexual illegal Teleprompter reader loyal only to Reggies bone.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:58 | 4712882 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

The mother part is just stupid...

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:06 | 4712930 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Fair enough, but read what Stalin did to his family......Russian Leaders are known for their ruthlessness.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:14 | 4712986 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Stalin was Georgian

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:39 | 4713080 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

True, but he was also President of Russia, as one of his titles. But you are right, Stalin was Georgian, and perhaps Lenin, Kruschev, Gorbachev etc were different, at least when it came to their families.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:18 | 4713344 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

Tsar Alexander III was sobriquetted as the Tsar who kept both the peace and the 6th Commandment. He was a loyal spouse to the Empress Maria Fjodorovna, a staunch antimodernist, absolutist, and a good monarch. He refused to compromise with the forces of "reform." When his son Nicholas made the mistake of doing so, his mother visably wept at the meeting of the first Russian Duma. Perhaps she sensed what Nicholas appeared not to, that this was the end of their line and of Russian greatness. The reformers whom Nicholas tried to appease returned the favor by murdering him and his family and plunging Russia into the darkness of communism.

I see Putin trying to reverse those mistakes. It will be a long fight.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:26 | 4714011 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

The Criminal UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. is well past the point of absolutely no return. The Fraud is officially exposing itself as a Totalitarian Authoritative Fascist Police State.

It's a Criminal UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. "posing" as a functional government of the people. For the people & by the people.

There is NO President. Only a Criminal CEO.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:32 | 4713397 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

What the fuck has Putin to do with Stalin!? Germans had Hitler and Goebels, so what? Are you trolling?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:02 | 4712901 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture



Why doesn't anybody - especially the liberal press - point out that "41" aka George Herbert Walker Bush aka father of the next President (gag me with a 2x4 and let the Pubs get what they deserve should they nominate him) was head of the CIA?  What is the difference between the CIA and KGB?  How can there be any?

Hey!!!  I love my country.  I would die to defend the Constitution.  I will be marching for Eric Holder's impeachment in Washington in June.  But give me a break.

We have been screwing around in Ukraine for two reasons: 1) pull it into NATO so that the Vampire Squid can be better able to insert its blood funnel (you know - turn it into another Greece), and 2) have more control over its hydrocarbon resources.

Putin is playing this like a master.  Who knows - he may be trying to reestablish a Russian empire.  But he is clever.  He is assuming an "above board" stance.  It kind of reminds me of my CongressPuke, Chris van Hollen - the Republicans won't allow a vote on immigration reform - all I am asking is a vote.  So Putin wants to allow Ukraine - in isolation - to do a self identity check.  What will Obama/Kerry do now?  Gulp.  Oh.  I know.  Say - "Unless Ukraine is careful, it will morph into an apartheid state."

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:20 | 4713023 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Yes, let's have a vote for illegal immigration.  The armed forces are going to need more volunteers and, well, draftees soon.  Mexicans can't be drafted. 

Amnesty for all!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:15 | 4713970 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

Say what you want about illegal immigration - and I have plenty but this isn't the forum - I gag when I hear "amnesty" and illegal immigrant in the same sentence.  I am forgetting my history here.  I think that Gerald Ford granted/established an amnesty program for American "draft dodgers."  I believe that Carter later granted a broad pardon.  The amnesty - unlike HSBC and the TBTF banks paying a fine and acknowledging no wrongdoing - allowed one one's "rights" back at a cost (public service?) and a black mark on the resume.  The pardon made the issue as if it had never happened - you know - like HSBC after Eric Holder cut his drug dealing "arrangement."

Soooooooo.  Amnesty implies that you have/had some rights.  Some legitimacy.

I wish that ours ruling elites could find a different word than amnesty.  It just doesn't fit.  Can you put a person whose first act in coming to America was to break the law on the same plane with someone who was established but didn't care for the price, often loss of life, of hanging around - serving in Viet Nam?  Not even close.

Oh excuse me.  I was politically incorrect.  I wrote "illegal alien."  I meant "undocumented immigrant."  So by what politically correct name would we call Viet Nam era draft dodgers?  Hmmmmmm.  Patriotically challenged scat backs?

Confession:  I was about two years too young to have been confronted with going to Nam.  I think I would have gone, but one never knows until confronted.  Probably would have joined the Air Force or Navy.  Always loved planes and ships.  God bless those who fought in the rice paddies for the US - no matter how f&^ked up our policy/leadership was at the time.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:41 | 4713166 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

To my friends I noted in '88 that Bush was CIA, aka, Top Cop.

Head of CIA for President makes no sense from a citizen's standpoint.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:23 | 4713584 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

He was also likely mixed up in the Kennedy killing.  Good resume for a president... helped kill a predecessor.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:33 | 4714032 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Yup, good pic of him outside the book depository. And, if I'm not mistaken he couldn't account for his whereabouts the day of.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 20:39 | 4714379 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Kennedy was a staunch anti communist and huge tax cutter, so agreed with HW Bush on only one out of two of those measures of a patriot.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:29 | 4713617 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

He does when one looks at it as being next in line after the actions of Hinkley trying to impress Jodi.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:43 | 4713448 Old Man River
Old Man River's picture

What will Obama/Kerry do now?


I'm guessing theys doing another one of them "pivots." Just. kinda. walk. away. quietlike.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:26 | 4713058 JRobby
JRobby's picture

What was the middle part?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:42 | 4713177 Incubus
Incubus's picture

i'd boil my mother in oil if i could have it sanctioned.  bitch is a tyrant

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:50 | 4713219 J_jade
J_jade's picture

You idiots do realize that Putin is X-KGB and that Reuters ia a Russian based News website, right.   lol Idiots it's called propaganda from the new Cold War.  

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:21 | 4713571 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Reuters is a well known UK news agency, recently acquired by Thompson (which is an American Company).

YOU, on the other hand, are a Moron !

I guess Google is too hard for ya...

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:35 | 4714040 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Yes, Reuters, owned & operated by the Rothschilds.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:19 | 4713354 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Rootin for Putin !!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 19:39 | 4714210 RedHarley
RedHarley's picture

"The US has been behind the Ukrainian crisis from the beginning..."

And Egypt, and Libya, and Syria..........

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:43 | 4712829 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Just wait until Ukraine is hit with the Ultimate USSA weapon of mass destruction:

Obamacare :-)

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:47 | 4712838 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Thought you were going to say Miley Cyrus.
You can get rid of Obozocare.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:28 | 4712854 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

No, Larry Summers dropped out of a C-130 with economics books and a Russian-English translation book. Done.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:57 | 4712877 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

Doesn't Obamacare boost GDP?



Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:14 | 4712984 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Massive airdrop of Pikkety's book - that'll show 'em.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:28 | 4713072 machineh
machineh's picture

... with a bonus video of Hillary 'Putin is Hitler' Klinton addressing the Saban forum.

That'll quell appetites, in case of a food shortage.

Fried cankles, ymmm!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:25 | 4713377 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Anal Herpes ?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:48 | 4712832 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Unpossible.  Who would think that the Nobel Prize Winner was capable of such deceit?  Except for droning poor, brown people and  trying to start a war in Syria on lies about sarin, assassinating US citizens, NDAA, war on whistleblowers, he is perfect.

Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has published an article demonstrating that the US government and President Barack Obama knowingly lied when they claimed that the Syrian government had carried out a sarin gas attack on insurgent-held areas last August.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:50 | 4712848 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Also, who would think Putin would ever misrepresent, even a little, nevermind LIE. Fools.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:56 | 4712862 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Of course Putin lies,  but how does that differentiate him from any other politician? At least is competent in this psychopathy, unlike the mulatto messiah who narcisscism is only exceeded by his inability to speak without a teleprompter.

Could you imagine Putin bowing to a Robot, LOL?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:28 | 4713073 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Why are you attacking Putin like that?  He wasn't even mentioned in the previous post, that was about Obama.  I am personally very anti-Putin but you have an agenda.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:34 | 4713103 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

I see Putin for what he is, a ruthless political leader, a Russian nationalist who would sacrifice millions of his own to save Russia from the USSA.  I admire Putin for his clarity of vision, strength of character and devotion to Russia. I consider him to be a psychopath because it is impossible in my view to rise to the highest levels of power in any country, unless you are without empathy.  I can be corrected however, and respect your view.


At least Putin is his own man, not a pet like Obama, bowing to robots. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:32 | 4713405 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Too bad the Americans aren't willing to sacrifice a few millions of their own to save themselves from the USSA; because that's the only way it gets done.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 17:45 | 4713887 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

We're eventually going to do the right thing.  After we've tried everything else. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:45 | 4712834 PartysOver
PartysOver's picture

No shiat Sherlock.  Of course the US was behind this.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:47 | 4712841 Gunga
Gunga's picture

Putin knows the US Feral gubmint is behind the Ukraine events because he never in his wildest dreams imagined things could work out this well for Russia.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:48 | 4712843 DavidC
DavidC's picture

I'm surprised it's taken Putin so long to say it.


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:55 | 4712864 813kml
813kml's picture

I think that he wanted to move his pieces into place and make sure that China was fully onboard.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:07 | 4712939 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture



Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:30 | 4713089 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Up next, the pigeon will dance.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 16:11 | 4713535 tsuki
tsuki's picture

China is fully on-board, Pivot to Asia and Muslim terrorism have shown China where the danger lies. 

Also, this stink tank policy paper is making the rounds of the internet now.  It is from 2006, but it is being recirculated.



Wed, 04/30/2014 - 18:32 | 4714029 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Interesting that that is being trotted out. The premise -- that Russia's nuclear arsenal is now greatly inferior to the US's-- seems about 100% in opposition to reality. Which makes this a rather interesting propaganda piece. But what else would you expect from the CFR?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:50 | 4712845 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

Putin sez:

"US has been behind the Ukrainian crisis from the beginning"

"other countries should not be blamed for the crisis"

"searching for the guilty outside Ukraine is wrong"

Um, what? First he blames the US, then says other countries shouldn't be blamed? More than enough blame to go around, methinks.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:35 | 4713116 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Sigh, can't believe I'm the one to say this. 

He was saying this was all started by the US (half right, the corrupt previous Ukrainian President had at least as much responsibility but he's goneski).  He isn't sanctioning the US.  He isn't trying to force the US to do anything.  He is asking that Ukraine be left alone and that the Ukrainians clean up their mess. 

One the face of it, it's a very intelligent approach.  It will remain so as long as no Russian agents are captured/killed and/or IDed.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:45 | 4713190 stewie
stewie's picture

One the face of it, it's a very intelligent approach


Dunno.  Having someone shit all over my backyard then say "don't look outside for guilty" doesn't seems that intelligent to me.  Is he trying to placate the West?  Could be the language of diplomacy?  Maybe trying to give the US an exit?  



Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:37 | 4713137 stewie
stewie's picture

I didn't get that either, but based on the downvotes, other may have understood something we haven't.

Any downvoters willing to explain their posture?



Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:52 | 4712853 Charles Wilson
Charles Wilson's picture

Yep!  Trade War.  Goods piling up on docks everywhere, then retaliation.

Seen it before - See: Jude Wanniski, "The Crash of 1929".

What's New?: DEBT REPUDIATION.  Coming to a former Land of the Free type Despotry.

There's even a little WW1 thrown in for good measure: "It'll just be a small little War...Rearrange the borders of a few small nation-states and it'll all blow over..."


Who gets to play the part of Archduke Ferdinand?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:00 | 4712896 JailBank
JailBank's picture

I am currently reading a copy of "The Crash of 1929". Every three pages I almost shit when I think about how things relate to today.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:47 | 4713203 Blano
Blano's picture

Just pulled that off my bookshelf to reread.  Amazing, isn't it???  It's almost creepy.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:41 | 4713163 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"Who gets to play the part of Archduke Ferdinand?"

I would say that TPTB should put to vote here on ZH. That should be fun.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 02:27 | 4715170 trader1
trader1's picture

look out for June 28th


edit: junked for noting the date marking the archduke's assassination?  really?  are you effing kidding me?!

you may loathe me, but i love you ;-)

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:52 | 4712857 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

How do you say ding ding ding in Russian ??

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:56 | 4712868 Belrev
Belrev's picture


Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:37 | 4713122 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

???? ???? ????

Stupid site won't allow Russian characters.  It messes with the NSA search filters.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:11 | 4713321 news printer
news printer's picture

din' din' din'

phonetic translation

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:58 | 4712861 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The west's problems are so massive that a little conflicts won't help. They need a big regional war and the MIC is going to see to it that Putin gets this war whether he like it or not. If that fails there is always the race war that Zero is stirring up here at home to help them out.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:43 | 4713181 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

I guess it is as good of a theory as any other. The MIC is wanting to sell more F22 so they are positioning scores of F16s on the border. Have to replace 'em with something!

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:33 | 4713411 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

I'd like to buy one, but can I get a bail-out first? And maybe a bail-in after?

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 15:49 | 4713470 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Foreign aid for the leader of the Army, General Ambivalent.  Done.  Pick it, and the spares package, up at your closest airport serviced by USAid.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:54 | 4712863 kurt
kurt's picture

This whole dialog winds up with Puting saying: Searching for the guilty outside Ukraine is wrong. What? This must be out of context or attempting to push a camel through the eye of a needle.

Weird article. The guilty are in Ukraine. They are mercenaries, privateers, cia, contractors and, yes, the citizens who will do violence for $50.00 per day, they are sell outs. Come to think of it so are the tools hired by the cia. Wait! So is the cia, so is the state department.

If you get near Nutland, you can smell Cheney's funk. Dear God the neocons have really blurred the lines here. WTF. 

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 14:39 | 4713151 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

He is also clearing himself and Yankabitch with that point and Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine so the murders that occurred there don't apply either.

Wed, 04/30/2014 - 13:57 | 4712871 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Stating the obvious is Putin. What we really want to know is the USA end game here in Ukraine.  The Ukraine is obviously deeply split, and always has been. The Soviet border makers have layed a political minefield by adding so much Russian populated areas in the industrial east. You can read the State Department employees, who post on this subject here, talk big talk about a Ukrainian state and the need to keep it as one entity. Of course we know this is artificial and a Soviet construct. We also know why the USA wants a one state solution, because they hoped to take it all via the Coup in Kiev. But you can't change facts on the ground, as Israel is so proud of claiming. So here you are Kerry, the facts on the ground are that you can not control thge East of Ukraine, the people will not let you. That must be tough to take for the world's exceptional nation.

This crisis has revealed the entire US and EU agenda, and it is clearly to eliminate Russia after breaking any economic and social ties between the EU and Russia. Ukraine is the wedge issue, notice how the EU clowns follow like dogs their master Kerry. Playing a dangerous game now, a game that is putting us all in danger of a nuclear exchange. But our elites are totally out of control and Nuland is a model of who is doing this. Investigate her and her connections, that will expose who is really running this.

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