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Even The CME Is Getting Tired Of Silver Manipulation
Everyone has seen them: those "inexplicable" bouts of furious selling in gold and silver, coming out of nowhere with no news or catalyst, which serve no rational price discovery purposes (because no normal seller takes out the bid stack, telegraphs a massive sell order and executes at the worst possible price) but merely are there to reprice the market higher or, as happens in 90% of the cases, lower.
In fact, look no further than what happened first thing this morning, when an unknown seller, smashed all stops in one big sale, and took silver to its lowest price for 2014.
There was no news, so one can't even blame a rogue algo overreacting to some headline and taking momentum ignition strategies a little far.
In short: this was a premeditated and deliberate selling of silver with one simple purpose: push and reprice silver lower.
But this is nothing new: precious metal traders, especially those who are on the other side of the table of the BIS' Mikael Charoze or Benoit Gilson, and countless other commercial banks, are all too aware of this behavior and they take it for granted.
No, the real surprise is that suddenly none other than the CME is getting worred that manipulation this blatant is finally chasing regular retail traders away who are tired of being fleeced on a daily basis, leaving central banks and a few "fixing" banks to trade only with each other, which is not acceptable - after all it is the muppets' money that is fair game, not that of other cartel members.
According to Reuters, the CME, which at present has price fluctuation limits for futures contracts in some energy, agricultural commodities and financial products, but not for its precious and base metals products, is considering introducing daily limits on gold and silver futures.
"We don't have price limits in gold and silver. That's something that we are looking into," Miguel Vias, CME Group's director of metal products, said in a panel discussion at an industry event, in response to a question about how the exchange protects investors from excessive volatility.
The biggest concern for the exchange is the array of sophisticated trading programs that are capable of significantly pushing the market higher or lower, Vias said.
Oh, so it is the programs? And who programs these... programs? Could it be people? And perhaps one should look into whether actual people are ordering the programs to "significantly push the market higher or lower."
It gets better. While the clueless hacks which appear on TV speculate about plunging trading volumes, anyone with half a brain knows why most have shunned capital markets - people know the market is one rigged, manipulated casino, and never more so than now. But while until now this mostly impacted the stock and bond market, it is now moving over to gold and silver.
"Unusually big moves and the fears of price "slippage" - the difference between the price at which a market player wants to execute an order and the price at which they are able to do so - have turned some gold and silver futures investors away, he said. In the first four months of the year, COMEX gold futures volume dropped 10 percent from a year ago..."
But the best part is this:
The possible move reflects growing concern at the largest U.S. exchange of futures and options about big bouts of buying or selling that have caused huge fluctuations in prices without any apparent fundamental reason.
Funny, one could almost call huge fluctuations in price without a reason... manipulation. But better not, because what little confidence in a rigged system exists, may promptly dissolve even further.
Still, while this is merely the latest alleged case when the CME promises to clean up its act, we can be confident nothing will happen: "support for setting limits on price moves does not appear to be universal. "I think the breaks in trading are good, but I wouldn't support fixing price moves," said one U.S. trader."
Could said trader be manning the NY Fed trading desk at Liberty 33?
Ironically, there may be some hope, though not out of the CME. It appears the cannibalization in the PM manipulation industry is so bad, there may no longer be any silver "fixers" left. Also from Reuters, we learn that Deutsche Bank's exit from the London precious metal fixes will leave just two banks running a century-old system that sets the global silver price, likely stirring the debate about regulation of one of the most volatile commodity markets.
The bank's decision on Tuesday to resign its seat ends an unsuccessful four-month search for a buyer, as U.S. lawsuits alleging gold price-rigging by the five banks that set the benchmark turned potential suitors cold, sources said.
"You can't have a silver fixing with just two people, that's a bit of a nonsense really," a London-based precious metals trader said, adding just two participants would restrict liquidity and competition.
"It would just be two people talking to each other. I think the regulator should be stepping up a little bit here."
It should, but like the CME, it most likely won't:
Shortly before news of Deutsche's withdrawal on Tuesday, Britain's financial watchdog, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), said it could intervene if there were too few participants in commodity benchmarks such as gold and silver.
"If there is a risk of dislocation because people are withdrawing and we think that breaches or is a risk to our objectives, then we would set that as one of our activities but it is not entirely straightforward," head of enforcement and financial crime Tracey McDermott said on Tuesday.
And who can possibly forget the CFTC's own "quest" (or Bart "rotating door" Chilton's haircut for that matter) to root out evil silver manipulators (most of which just happen to be its superiors), which found nothing wrong.
In a five-year probe, the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission investigated allegations that some of the world's biggest bullion banks including JPMorgan Chase & Co distorted silver futures prices.
After 7,000 staff hours of investigation, the U.S. commodity regulator found no evidence of wrongdoing and dropped the probe last September.
The banks faced similar accusations in a long-running class action antitrust lawsuit that was dismissed at the end of last month by a federal appeals court.
No, investors - at least those who are not close to the reserve money system - are on their own.
Whatever the outcome of the latest scrutiny, some users, including mining companies, which hedge production against the benchmark, may have little choice for now but to rely on it even with just two members.
"Whether it is good or bad or if it is down to two members, we have to use it," said Ounesh Reebye, vice president of metal sales at mining company Silver Wheaton, which is expected to produce 36 million ounces of silver this year.
Perhaps it would be best to just have one gold and silver "price fixer" left, the Federal Reserve. That way at least some integrity to an otherwise broken and manipulated market will be restored. Until then, watch as trading volumes slowly but surely trickle down to zero as everyone finally realizes what we have been saying since 2009 - in a market so manipulated, so rigged, so artificial, a far better and enjoyable option for investors around the world is just to take their money to Las Vegas.
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Like they don't have trading records for who placed the paper trade? Give it to Anonymous and have them flush out the truth. Post names, addresses, children's photos, et al. Roust the Bolsheviks before they destroy us all.
I'm not complaining. I just buy more of the physical stuff when it tanks. Thank you manipulators.
An online dealer flashed an alert for 100oz of shot at $1700. When you click to buy it..wholla $1950. But glad to know bloomberg news is focused on the real financial news out there: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-30/brits-throw-down-with-starbucks...
what a welcome relief to see that the appropriate authorities are finally on it. (can't even type that without laughing).
The fact that Reuters published the article had me chuckling...
Bart Shill-ton said it best. ''we are looking into it''.
The goal of CFTC or CME investigations is to defer attention for the moment of increased scrutiny, to then announce down the road when the pressure has been released and attention has been diverted, that there is nothing here to see, move along.
There is too much at stake. Nothing will be done, and so we stack until the silver supernova.
BartShilltonisashithead.com. I wonder if that is still available?
These guys are nervous because the intended effect of their manipulation is to un-nerve people into selling physical- and it is having the opposite effect. At some point, physical silver will not be easily available out there. Then I wonder how they plan to control the market.
I do not agree. They are getting nervous, because people are leaving the US futures market. Since China is making big progress in offering the Asian markets useful futures markets, I think that is a big problem for the Money Masters. They must decide: either allow to continue to rig the market, with all it's benefits for them, or to restrict rigging somehwat, to win back confidence.
Shit take the price down to a buck for all I care, the cheaper it gets the more I buy.
It only costs 50c per ounce to get it out of the ground, right?
Someone was saying that the actual dedicated silver miners are running at cost right now, but because silver is also mined as a by product in other mining operations they can push it even lower than that. I don't know though, I think if it goes too much lower the miners shutdown and the drop in supply relative to demand forces the price back up again.
Can you imagine it hitting even 15 an ounce though? I would go nuts and wipe out the LCS.
CME Translation:
"We're worried the manipulators will soon lose control, resulting in massive upside volatility. We're looking into placing upside limits on price moves for your protection."
Will someone please just blame it on the group with a motive to keep gold and silver lower : Hint it's not the Government or the FED.
Maybe the Chinese and the Russians? They want a strong dollar and weak commodity pricing. Follow the money my fellow ZH zealots!
The dear old merc concerned about Ag manipulation:
http://www.popular-lyrics.com/lyrics/the-trews/i-cant-stop-laughing-2030...
Some of us having been BTFD for a long time, Chuck...and now we're "broke".
Then you are fulfilling the Cartels desires, and will soon be voluntarily relieved of your metal.
The term "weak hands" springs to mind.
Don't worry though, all the silver you sell will not be discarded on the land-fill.
I'm sure it will come in quite useful as canoe ballast.
I just say thank you idiot bankers for the discount on my massive stack of silver...pitty I lost it all in the boat accident
Here's some names: The silver foxes.....sorry, I mean fixers
David Rose - HSBC
Simon Weeks - Scotia Mocatta
Matthew Keen - Deutsche Bank
And their sidekicks
Peter Drabwell - HSBC
David Wilkinson - Scotia Mocatta
James Vorley - Deutsche Bank
Where do they live? E-mail addresses? Facebook pages? Cell phone numbers?
Simon Weeks,
Polo Barn,
Nairdwood Lane,
Great Missenden,
Bucks HP16 0QH
James Vorley,
Flat 4, 32 Shootershill Road,
Blackheath,
London SE3 7DB
David Wilkinson,
1 Greenway
Horsham,
West Sussex RH12 2JT
Matt Keen is in Dubai
Peter Dennis Drabwell, his birthday is today, 49 today. Happy Birthday!
Peter Benjamin Rose, he seems to live at HSBC, his 50th birthday is on June 16th. Can we come to the party?
I want the Instagram handles of their kids, Facebook accounts of their wives (and girlfriends).
This will make Donald Sterling look like a St.
Their kids did not manipulate the market.
To Peter Dennis Drabwell
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
People dying and starving,
Happy birthday to you !
This is my analogy of what is going on.
The CME is like the big brother to a sister who knows is being raped by their step dad but is too afraid to say anything. It's too shameful and embarrassing to say anything or do anything so the travesty continues on. Fuck you CME....Fuck you up your stupid ass.
You give them too much credit. They're more like a pimp than a big brother.
I figured the communist mongoloid exchange is just cutting them metals off at the pass to manage an imminent rise ( along with margin raises ). They don't do anything for reasons of nobility - especially when the manipulation is engineered by the fed.
Try really hard to understand this; you're engaged in making up stories and drama about nothing. Nothing happened. the market price is the market price; it's getting ready to feed into Hong Kong now at the same price it left Hong Kong this morning. Try really hard to understand; NOTHING HAPPENED. there's no drama.
true, but unless something happens, PM's are stuck in the mud and never leaving... fine, unless you need to sell to eat.
$19.015; same as it was at 4 O'clock this morning; soon to be bid up again by Hong Kong. You're discussing a non-event.
which is why I think it is being done in advance to help cap daily rises. IT is becoming more of a non-event because they've blown their load and it isn't working anymore after the hundreds of hulk smashes in the last year.
the manipulation is as plains as day as it ever has been and the news doesn't report it and the regulators don't regulate it.
Totally agree.
CME have stood by and done nothing whilst the blatant smashdowns have taken place.
That they now propose daily limits means we are near to the end of the downward manipulation and they are preparing for the explosion upwards. They will use these new limits and the usual trick of margin hikes to attempt to dam the flood.
They will fail...
Could be, unless the same TBTF banks (who were short silver during the down manipulation) have now gotten long, in which case there will be no daily limits set.
Agree. They've been aiding and abetting forever, this is not a sudden change of heart. The constraint will be on the rise of the paper silver price, which will probably just ramp the priice for the real stuff even faster once people start to get worried.
CME have stood by and done nothing whilst the blatant smashdowns have taken place.
Maybe somebody doesn't want to take flying lessons?
That was the first thing I thought of. Price declines of one or two percent are not a big deal, just when there is no reason for it do people get pissed. Now that they want to implement a daily limit, the pressure to keep the price down must be getting fierce.
this particular TYPE of manipulation; short term, for a day, for instance; particularly on a partial holiday, has been a fact of life for thrity years on the Comex; but it has no effect on the fact that the price of Silver is around $20 and not around $4; for instance. It's a completely international market and you can watch the various markets open and close as the world turns; no one controls anything. It's amarket and the market activity sets the price. Period. The tremendous mis-understanding is the internet wisdom that pretends that silver is not $30 or $45; or some other figure because of some kind of GLOBAL MANIPULATION. This is nonsense. It's complete crap.
or the manipulation has more of an impact on days like today, See May 1 2011.
Your "market activity" setting the price is a bunch of people who pretend that they will buy from a couple of banks who pretend that they have something to sell. You're right, it is nonsense, complete crap.
To witness live market activity for yourself; real people buying and selling real silver; go to bullionvault.com and click up the market chart; it's a real time market between the customers or clients of bullionvault and you can watch people post offers and other people hitting the bids and so forth. This type of market, for real metal, completely dominates the paper market, and not the other way around.
sure dude. the thing is, someone dumping contracts at illiquid times doesn't make sense for any other reaosn than to drive price down. the idea that such moves are organic is retarded.
not to mention that is scares people out of the game.
Yes; the floor traders dumped contracts on the market, ran a lot of stops and drove the price down; yes; that's what happened. Not a Bank, Not an evil empire, just some employees at the Comex; and it has no effect whatsoever on the International Market in Silver Bullion. No one but you are so ignorant as to think it means anythng. Wake up, please.
It 's not a game; and if you're scared you don't belong there. Try to figure out how you're going to convince the Chinese not to buy Silver tomorrow, or the Swiss acting for their customers; that's what it will take to affect the price of silver. when you figure it out let me know.
You're fucking retarded if you think the pit traders and locals at the Comex have the capital to or the desire to dump $300M in paper silver into a thin market without regard to price. Some very powerful hands are doing evil things because they know there'll be no consequences for their actions. My thinking is that the CB's are using their puppet banks to break the backs of the little guys, drive down the price, bankrupt the junior miners, merge the remaining companies and eventually nationalize them. There is a reason the world's most important countries are either demanding repatriation of their gold or amassing it at historic rates.
Just look at a silver chart from this morning:
5AM: 40+ cent price drop from $18.09 to $17.68
5:30AM: Price spike to $19.20
So, let's recap: JPM et al shorts 5,000 contracts at 4:59AM, gradually buys them back until around 5:29 and then dumps them at 5:30. $10,000,000 in a half hour. Not bad!
You're not paying attention; a non-event is a non-event. It doesn't benefit anyone except a few floor traders who bought the bottom they created. There's no interaction or reaction in the greater world at all. None. It's not "done' to cap anything; it's done for the profit of a few floor traders on the Comex. and as of right now; the price is back to what was set by the free and un-fettered international market. The problem you have is you've been listening to crap for so long you started believing it. it's crap. It's a market the price is what people bid for it every day. Period. there's not drama available; sorry about that. Try Soap Operas.
It's a futures market, thus crap, the future is not today.
Why not set price with a live public auction of the real metal?
That seems like a fair and unfettered market.
The price would be truly determined by supply and demand.
Or we can just say thank you, and buy more at firesale prices..
What firesale price is that? The price now is the same as it was this morning at 4am. It'll probably get bid up a little later in the afternoon. The only way you can make use of these one day wonders is to have a price order in beforehand on the Comex; or some other market. The wonderful manipulation you're so entralled by is over before you can even react to it.
"After 7,000 staff hours of investigation, the U.S. commodity regulator found no evidence of wrongdoing and dropped the probe last September."
Ya, 7000 hours of watching porn maybe.
7,000 hours is 1,000 days if you work on 7 hours per day.
Four years - the time it took Fart Childporn to conduct his investigations into the rigging of silver markets - comprises 960 working days, assuming 5 days a week and 4 weeks vacation.
So, one person - the office janitor? - spent their time "investigating" the rigging of markets in a strategically vital commodity?
Some workrate, huh? Waaayyy to gooo, CFTC!
God forbid the markets determine the 'price'
Well, God didn't forbid it; and the market does determine the price; and it's too bad if you don't like it.
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS...
fuck with the phony paper price again mother fuckers...
i'll just buy another 500 ounces like i did early this morning...FUCK YOU ALL...
"Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man understanding; For her proceeds are better than the profits of Silver, And her gain than fine Gold.”
Proverbs 3:13-17
If too many people get the idea of even buying 10oz of silver, supply will dry up so fast it will be hard for the MSM whores to make up a good story about why there's a sudden shortage.
You better check your arithmetic. Bullionvault.com has a daily vault audit and there are Americans and others there who own metric tonnes; but they didn't affect the price.
1 billion oz/year produced (this includes mine production, scrap and 'from the govt), say 500 million (conservatively) used for industrial purposes, ~800 million if you include silverware coins, and jewelry. So 200 million left for new investment. 10% of the US population is ~30 million - each buys 10 oz, that's 300 million, that's either 100 million MORE than GLOBALLY available. The supply and demand numbers are from the Silver Institute - not the fringes.
The reason bullion vault has a seemingly infinite supply is that essentially NOBODY in the US is buying right now. It SEEMS like a lot of people, because zerohedge readership is a very small subset of the total population.
https://www.silverinstitute.org/site/supply-demand/
And? what? you have a magic method to get 10 million people to buy 10oz. of Silver each at the market; 100 million oz. so what? If there's a shortage, then there's a shortage and you wait for the mine supply. so what? There just isn't any drama available. Nothing requires an explanation.
I said IF - as in 'IF people start to worry that maybe the USD isn't the guaranteed world reserve currency forever and decide to hedge their bets with some tangible, portable stores of value'. If it never happens then it never happens.
Here's what requires an explanation; how do you get the Chinese to stop buying Silver? How do you get the Swiss to stop buying Silver in the London Market ? In order to "control" or suppress the price, you see. How are you going to do it.? Because they don't give a rat's ass about the Comex. and the Comex has a very short rope connecting it to this real international market; they can deviate for a while for a small deviation and then they have to get back in line with the real market again. that's the way the real world works. don't be surprised that your favorite internet gurus just make up bullshit; U-tube is full of people with free energy motors.
What differentiates you from the other internet gurus? I take everything they say with a big grain of salt, but why would I believe you?
He got 800 on his SAT
Fuck, of course! How could I have missed that!
To hell with that! I've read "Brave New World," "Island," and "The Doors of Perception," so I gotta go with Al Huxley!
Silver stake thru the black hearts of Greenspan, Bernanke and Yellen.
in "a market so manipulated, so rigged, so artificial, a far better and enjoyable option for investors around the world is just to take their money to Las Vegas."...
That is of course if investors continue to believe that is the only option available to them.
"After 7,000 staff hours of investigation, the U.S. commodity regulator found no evidence of wrongdoing and dropped the probe last September"
I mean, you just cannot make this shit up.... 7000 fucking hours?!? Hopefully those stressed out govt employees got a lot of time off after that
/ S
pricing in the depression once the money printing compeletely fails
This is not a non event, people got instantly taken out of their positions this morning and lost money, while the whores who pulled this off made money.
And Bix Wier says the only reason the CME are doing this is to protect themselves AGAINST VIOLENT MOVES TO THE UPSIDE. (Makes sense to me.)
For you it is a non-event. I told you what the explanation is for those who were affected by it. It was a manipulation for a few hours by the floor traders at the Comex; so that they could buy the low they created. It had no effect at all on anything real, or anything external to that time period and location. The international market is opening now at the same price it passed to London last night; NOthing happened. therefore it does not require any explanation. It should go with out saying that if you play in the Comex you better know what you're doing and what the behaviours of that beast are; but there is not any effect on this months average price of silver bullioin, for instance. There is no manipulation in the sense in which you have been taught to believe in it.
Bull Shit you cocksucker. Silver is the second most used commodity on the face of the planet and is 'priced' below where it was in the 80's NOT adjusted for inflation. It's obvious Silver (not Gold) is the number one contender for an alternative global reserve CURRENCY for the average person trading goods and services otherwise known as REAL money. If the 'price' action of Silver on May 1, 2011 still doesn't open your eyes then you are the paid off government fuckin troll we all suspect you to be.
AL, AL, chill out man. SAT 800's just here to save us from ourselves and from being duped by 'internet gurus'. I for one have been waiting for years for a REAL guru to start posting RELIABLE information on alternative newssite comment boards - thank god he finally arrived.
I don't trust him. There's a foul air around his posts. Shit clouds. Paid dis-information agents have been proven. Another 'conspiracy theory' exposed as fact. Silver's (& Gold) day is coming too.
I was being sarcastic ;) I haven't really been looking for an internet guru that I CAN REALLY FINALLY TRUST on the comment boards.
Good, because Godot will arrive before that happens!
Either the people trading these paper PM's are incredibly stupid, or they know something I don't (probably the latter). Why would you short something that has 100's of different industrial applications (more being found every day), is being horded by China everyday, for development of their solar power array, and is being squirlled away, by chumps like me, never to again see the light of day until the price is many multiples of current levels. Add to that the clueless miners who keep mining the stuff at a loss (making it up in volume I guess), who will soon be out of business, and one has to wonder how much longer the price suppression can continue. Mind boggling!
Yousa one nutty chimp!
A nice video about silver mining costs and more from a friend at another site:
2013: Silver Market in Review
"But while until now this mostly impacted the stock and bond market, it is now moving over to gold and silver."
....uh, this has been going on for years in the silver market courtesy of one large short which happens to be a Too Big To Touch NCY bank whoseinitials are JPM....
The Fed tacitly approves the periodic bombing of PM prices in the future markets as it helps make their case that there is no inflation.....
Complete Crap. Gold went from 300$ to 1800$ and you think this was a minipulation; you're crazy. Silver is the price it is today, and it's exactly where it was in the early morning again, because of the decisions of individual buyers and sellers, in many cases, of good delivery bars. All this crap about paper prices and paper markets is just crap. you can buy silver in quantity any day you want at the spot price. The paper market is slaved to the Bar Market not the other way around ! The reason you twits want to delude yourselves is to pump up your fantasies about "beach balls under water" and 150$ Silver next month; etc. etc. It's delusional. Metals prices respond to inflationary news and they respond to fear and un-certainty in major financial markets; You think anyone in Hong Kong cares that the price on the Comex was down for a few hours today ? Of course not. that's completely irrational. Just get over it; there is no manipulation in the sense in which you apply the term. over thweekend; yes; for the morning yes; that has any effect on the silver bar market for the month, NO. the paper market can never escape from the reality of the BAR MARKET. These ignorant internet gurus have fed you a load of crap; wake up and think about your theory; it's impossible.
have u noticed that most of your remarks have gone ignored...
its because u have no clue what the fuck u r talking about...
with everyday revealing how all markets r rigged why would the phony paper Gold and Silver markets NOT be rigged when if u had any knowledge of monetary history, you would KNOW that they r the only 2 forms of real money and as such r the greatest threat to the MoneyChangers worthless script...
go away...and take ur worthless debt coupon dollars with u...
or perhaps stay and continue to sound more stupid....
this will b the only reply to ur nonsense...at least from me - and hopefully anyone else
No, it's because your face to face with real knowledge of the real situation from someone who traded the comex for many years and has researched the subject of this market for many more years. You're having cognitive dissonance because you've been fed a load of crap by internet gurus who have no idea what they're bloviating about.
All those years on the trading floor didn't do much for your grammar and syntax usage, eh?
Civus Mundi/Johnny Bravo, you re-enlisted in the internet water army!
I'll say it for everyone else, SAT 800 - you're a horsefucked moron. Come back after youi've done some reading and taken your meds.
Although I might have refrained from using the characterisation, 'horse fucked moron', I agree with the sentiment behind the poster's comment. The fact is, dear SAT, that no one really gives a horse's ass any more what the COMEX or London Fix is doing. The real question is: what is happening at the SGE (Shanghai Gold Exchange for you)? That is where the action is......yeah, baby!
And we need a daily price fix because?
It's an old outmoded historical tradition; it's just a place to start the trading at the beginning of the session and it's usually not very far off what the buy and sell orders reveal to be correct; but it is they and not the fix that determine the trade price.
Las Vegas baby!
Stacked another 20oz. today. Air is getting a little thin up there now. Keeping the faith y'all.
T here's every reason to expect that as news and events transpire your purchases will respond to demand created by millions of people worldwide to revalue your silver accordingly; but there is no manipulation that is holding the price down, or up, or anyplace else. Over a reasonable period of time, such as a year, I believe the Silver market will reflect the ongoing devaluations of the paper currencies; the present regime of counter-inflationary hedging started in 2001; and is about on track at $20 to cancell out inflation for silver bought at that time; as various scenarios gain attention of people internationally I believe they will bid up the price to keep up with actual devaluation; that is the new regime in which we are. In addition, the metals will respond to news of financial debacle and turmoil positively. Such news is expected as the financial industry, so called, is a disaster waiting for an excuse to happen.
Paging Mr Butler...Mr Butler...
You're reputation's on fire.
Price limits won't tackle the real problem which is blatant control by central banks to keep their debt based Ponzi scheme from collapsing. What we really need are free and effective regulators who will actually do something about these criminals as well as a spot trading platform based on real, quantifiable physical metal.
people wouldn't know what silver was worth unless you told them. same goes for gold.
Just a couple of thoughts: why aren't the silver whetons of the world selling direct? Can't operate a website? Seriously, if the bullion banks are distorting the market, why not go public? Two, anyone watching US Mint sales of silver eagles has to wonder if we can't go ahead and get enough silver and gold to stop using dollars. No tracking of income, tax free, people will work for precious metals.
Having a portion of your income and or contracts in untraceable legal tender is a pretty good idea. You may still want to keep some paper crap for bills and taxes, but your income becomes more "yours" with every silver or gold transaction.
Over 18 million eagles to date in 2014. What happens when people start using them? GDP falls, tax revenues fall and the government attempts to get more tax revenue- encouraging more people to trade in legal currency, Constitutional currency. Free markets are at our fingertips, we have products, labor, capital and currency. Do we cut out the banks and government?
Why would you buy direct when you can buy at a discount through the Comex?
What if comex is out? If the miners go direct, who supplies comex?
I believe Silver Wheaton is a royalty company, not an actual miner. But regardless, I believe your point is why miners do not sell direct. Some of them do, but the price is still set on the paper market, not a real physical market. What they should do is what I posted earlier on another story:
"Unfortunately the silver miners are the retards that are allowing this to go on. I own mining shares in a few different mining companies and have gone to the annual meeting to question management as to why they sell all of their product at these depressed prices. If just a few of these companies would get together and withhold their product (sell just enough to cover their operating costs), the price of PM's would go through the roof. Their official response is that that would be collusion and would be illegal. Off the record I got a couple of the managers to admit that it could be done, but they're scared shitless that some regulatory agency would suddenly find a 'problem' with their operating permits. One company last year (First Majestic Silver) did just that on their own (withheld some of their production), and made a handsome profit on the silver they withheld, by selling it a few months later at a substantially higher price. At any rate I'm not too upset about it, because in the meantime, just keep stacking baby."
So, having the mining companies stand up for themselves (shareholders actually) is not likely to happen any time soon.
No, they are not an actual miner, but they do contract for inventory from miners. As for operating permits? I wouldn't be surprised. Still, if enough people take silver and gold into general commerce, the opportunities for miners would be exceptional. There could even be specie only depositories and exchange points to facilitate supply. These could contract with miners, using established private mints to create inventory.
Could it be that this is an issue now for the CME becasue PMs have so much upside potential and very little downside potential? We wouldn't want PMs to explode to the upside now would we/
CME is considering to introduce price limits for PMs? The only way I can read this is that PMs are about to explode to the upside and they want to limit that, or at least buy some time to act on the upward movement.
Good point. When the rehypothecation chain breaks the upper price limit will be very much appreciated by TPTB by dramatically slowing true price discovery. Might give them a few days/weeks to find more physical.
Hahaha, just get delivery and watch the shyte show unfold. CHeers
Well CME, you could also send an email to that fucking cunt Yellen and tell her to shut those fucking printers off.
Whadya think?
I would think this might be a good time to buy the stuff. If you really think the economy could take a serious or fatal hit, then I don't care WHAT the "experts" say, silver and gold will go up in value. Sharply. If TPTB are so determined to drive the price down, take advantage of it. The stuff has met the test of time, it's been a measure of value, and a currency, since the earliest civilizations. Sure, it goes up, it goes down, but it never goes AWAY, does it? It never loses all it's value and disappears, never to be heard from again, like almost every OTHER currency in history has. And it's value is universal...all cultures know and value gold.
Now for preppers, it probably doesn't make sense. If things get so bad you are reduced to holing-up and easting dried beans, then it's safe to say there IS no economy to worry about. Those BEANS are your currency. Don't eat them all.
But if things get bad, but we manage to salvage something from the wreckage, then those PM will be the probable basis for a new currency. I would think that if the big FAKE economy tanks, people will go for the old familiar yellow metal as opposed to going with something new, (like Bitcoin...) And for those who say gold can't be money because the economy is too big for the physical amounts circulating and it wouldn't work, I'd say not to worry because the economy will be a WHOLE lot smaller at that point. There'll be plenty.
At least ten thousand years of human history, and ubiqitous in all cultures as a thing of value...I don't know what ELSE you'd stash wealth in if you thought the whole system was going to collapse, what else has that staying power? What else has shown its ability to segue from one economy to another, retaining significant value while all the others faded into the ether? And over so many years, so many economies...
Let 'em keep driving it down. If you're hedging against a big economic upheaval, this is a golden opportunity. (lol!)
Of course, I'm just a small buyer...I get my "boullion" at yard sales and flea markets in the form of broken or unmarked jewelry, flatware, etc. But that shit adds up, and with the price low, people aren't careful.these days. It's not unusual to find a 14 or 18k gold bracelet or necklace for a buck, and it weighs 12 grams or something. I don't consider the gold a risk at those prices, it's more like a scratch-off lottery ticket with better odds...:-)
The liquidity argument is banker bs. Most communities would function on "social credit" which requires no currency at all. Gold and silver would be used for some transactions or to store savings. The founding fathers saw no problem with an absolute specie based currency, which is why the Constitution is so clear on the subject. They even accommodated liquidity concerns by allowing Congress to value foreign coins for commerce.
""We don't have price limits in gold and silver. That's something that we are looking into," Miguel Vias, CME Group's director of metal products, said in a panel discussion at an industry event, in response to a question about how the exchange protects investors from excessive volatility."
I call bullshit on this. How many times have Tylers and Nanex documented PM market closure for milliseconds or seconds during extremely volatile events? Why haven't there been huge upside or downside moves since the big moves in 2013? The PM market has circuit breakers in place so this means that this CME effort is nothing more than killing any volatility at all. Is the FED calling for a fixed PM price now?
If they are "considering introducing daily limits on gold and silver futures" you can bet your booties they want to prevent Gold and Silver from going into orbit.
So the whole thing is just going to take longer now. wonderful.
When the hot money moves in, they will bypass the CME if necessary to glom the metal they want. Premiums will take up any slack.
I see this talk of 'limits' as very bullish. They're all sitting on a powder keg and they know it.
Every cloud has it's silver lining...
All meaningless.
When only trades of actual, delivered physical metal count towards setting the price, THEN they will get the little people interested again.
So, buy silver? Check.
The greater the actions with price suppression the closer we are getting to true price discovery. It's simply evidence that the west is losing control of of the economy in general and PMs in particular.
Will the real manipulator...please stand up!
The CME will shutup as soon as Yellin, the Fed and the NSA have a little chitchat
They can have all the chats they want but the physics will prevail..in short order..you can see the crackup coming....SOOON
its only paper silver... be your own cunt brother... buy physical and keep it for your kids...
Great article
CME is "owned" by Dickweed Dimon at JPM... a criminal organization... who is to say when Jamie will get out of his short corner on the silver market? maybe after the coming deflationary collapse that takes down the DOW by 8000 points... this Hope and Change stuff is great... eh?
If you think gold is not money then check out this article.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-346581-march-sees-unusual-surge-in-swiss...
To me, this move seems like a way to "orderly" shut down the paper metals market when the physical market defaults. When the SHTF occurs, nobody can exit their positions because the limit is hit at the first trade of the day and the market is shut down. At the same time, the authorities will impose capital controls. There may also be an attempt to confiscate the physical metal at the current depressed price level.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong. To be prepared for the case that I'm right, I'm buying physical and moving at least part of it to a country that I consider safe in this kind of scenario.
I haven't posted in a while,
However, I had to post on this... What if.....
What if the design was to get the muppets out of the metals before the REAL FLEECING begins? Meaning, tank metals market, get the retail out, and the run up the real inflation rate. This, like the Great Depression, will cause the people to demand more government social programs.
The setting of price limits is a two-edged sword -- in fact it is another way to manipulate prices -- they can keep PMs from crashing but they can also keep them from rising too quickly. Smells of desparation to me.
Financial analysts have covered every aspect of the out of control bankster madness but none of them could see this interesting gold making technology breakthrough coming. The pace of technology today is breath-taking and after 200 Lab trails proving its new patent pending precious metals technology, a Canadian Research Company now has a new LENR method for making high yield gold from barren waste seed ores.
Yes indeed we make real gold and view the development as both scalable and highly commercial with an eventual price point near that of aluminum.
To see a video of a classic Garage start up about to go stratospheric see: https://vimeo.com/90037448
The company is in due diligence mode with TreveriMarket.com to do a US $5.0 million raise to construct a pilot plant. This will move the project from the Lab where large gold beads were produced to where we can start pouring gold bars.
The technology discovery story will break on Kitco.com. They are sitting on a major article waiting for the Treveri deal to put up the investor landing page.
Fiscal Reset, inflation, stock prices down, unemployment up, all the rest of it…. bring it on.
Crony capitalists' market manipulation with impunity only encourages further social liberalisation which could even be reflected in the judicial court decisions by 'the people'. . . . a sad historical era for our constitutional republic that is ignorant of a sound currency in the free markets of capitalism.
Seems these guys have a death wish. I'm afraid precious metals are traded globally including physical markets in the east. Suppose there is some major bit of market making news and silver moves 10% in a day in Shanghai. What happens to trading on the CME during the 10 days it takes for western prices to "catch up"? Or do they really expect the tail (paper markets) to wag the dog (real physical) in those circumstances...