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Italy May Have Over 1,000 Tonnes Of Gold At The New York Fed

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Gold Core, Written by Ronan Manly

Italy May Have Over 1,000 Tonnes Of Gold At The New York Fed

Italy’s central bank, the Banca d’Italia, has recently published an important document detailing the storage locations and composition of the country’s gold reserves. The document confirms that Italy’s gold is held across four vault locations, three of which are outside Italy.

This is a significant announcement given that the Banca d’Italia is the world’s third largest official holder of gold after the U.S. and Germany. Italy officially holds 2,451.8 tonnes of gold, worth more than €72 billion (US$ 100 billion) at current market prices [1].

In the detailed three page report focusing exclusively on its gold reserves (and only published in Italian), the Banca d’Italia reveals that 1,199.4 tonnes, or nearly half the total, is held in the Bank’s own vaults under its Palazzo Koch headquarters on Via Nazionale in Rome, while most of the other half is stored in the Federal Reserve Bank gold vault in New York. The report also states that smaller amounts are stored at the Bank of England in London, and at the vaults of the Swiss National Bank in Bern, Switzerland.

The Gold in Rome

Of the 1,199.4 tonnes held in Rome, 1,195.3 tonnes are in the form of gold bars, with 4.1 tonnes held as gold coins (871,713 coins). There are 95,493 bars in the Rome vault, most of which are the standard trapezoidal shaped bars, however the holdings also include brick shaped U.S. Assay Office bars produced by the U.S. Assay Office, and another bar type which the Bank d’Italia refers to as ‘panetto’ (or loaf) shaped 'English' bars.
Like other major European central banks, the Banca d’Italia’s gold reserves were mainly accumulated during the late 1950s and early 1960s. Although Italy was already an important official gold holder during the first half of the 20th century, it still only held 402 tonnes of gold as of 1957. However, from 1958 until the late 1960s, the country’s gold reserves increased nearly 600% to exceed 2,560 tonnes by 1970[2].
Since 1970, Italy’s gold holdings have remained fairly constant, although at times some of the gold has been used in various financial transactions such as gold collateral against a German loan during the 1970s, and as contributions to the European Monetary Cooperation Fund (EMCF) and more recently to the European Central Bank (ECB).
The RAI Broadcast, the BIS and Bern

While the report from the Banca d’Italia appears to be the first official written confirmation that documents the exact storage sites of its gold reserves, the four storage locations were previously confirmed to Italian TV station RAI in 2010 when an RAI presenter and crew were allowed to film a report from inside the Bank’s gold vaults in Rome.
In the RAI broadcast for an episode of ‘Passaggio a Nord Ovest’, the presenter Alberto Angela states that in addition to Rome, the Italian gold is stored at the Federal Reserve Bank in New York, the Bank of England in London, and at the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) in Switzerland. The reporter uses the exact words “Banca dei Regolamenti Internazionali”.
The BIS connection was also confirmed in August 2009, when Italian newspaper “La Repubblica” published an article about Italy’s gold, stating that it was held in Rome, at the Federal Reserve in New York, in the vaults of the the Bank of England, and in the ‘vaults’ of the BIS in Basel.
This apparent contradiction between, on the one hand, the RAI and La Repubblica, who both state that some of the Italian gold is stored with the BIS in Switzerland, and on the other hand, the Banca d’Italia’s own document which states that its gold in Switzerland is stored at the Swiss National Bank (SNB) in Bern, is not really a contradiction since the BIS does not have its own gold storage facilities in Switzerland. The BIS simply uses the SNB’s gold vaults in Bern.
The BIS confirms this fact on its web site, under foreign exchange and gold services, where it states that it offers its clients “safekeeping and settlements facilities available loco London, Bern or New York”.[3] The term loco refers to settlement location for precious metals transactions.
By confirming that it stores gold at the Swiss National Bank in Bern, the Banca d’Italia has also inadvertently confirmed that the Swiss National Bank’s gold vaults are located in Bern. While this was generally known, the SNB currently will not confirm this fact publically and does not go beyond saying that it stores its own gold “domestically and internationally” in “decentralised” locations.[4]
However, Bern based Swiss newspaper “Der Bund” published an article in 2008 stating that the SNB’s gold vaults are in Bern, specifically underneath the Bundesplatz square which is adjacent to the SNB’s headquarters at No. 1 Bundsplatz. The SNB has two headquarters, one in Bern, the other in Zurich.
So it appears that the Italian gold in Switzerland is on deposit with the BIS (either earmarked or as a sight deposit) and is, at the same time, stored in Bern at the SNB vaults. Therefore the RAI and La Repubblica reports and the Banca d’Italia report are most likely both all in agreement, since they are merely saying the same thing, just in different ways. Another possibility is that the BIS sight deposit was converted back to earmarked gold in the SNB vault sometime since the 2010 RAI broadcast.
The reason for the confusion is because the Banca d’Italia will not confirm any of these details about how their gold in Bern is held, and they stated last week that they cannot comment beyond what is published in their April document.
Some of the details in the Bank’s gold reserve document were also confirmed a week prior to its publication when three Italian senators from Beppe Grillo’s political party Movimento 5 Stelle (Five Star Movement), namely, the party treasurer Giuseppe Vacciano, Andrea Cioffi and Francesco Molinari, visited the Rome vault on 31st March 2014.
The senators’ report states that as well as the 1,199.4 tonnes of gold held in Rome, “the remainder is mostly deposited at the Federal Reserve”, but also at the Bank of England and at “la Banca Centrale Svizzera” (which is the Swiss National Bank). The senators also reported that “For confidentiality reasons we were not notified of the exact extent of the deposits in different countries”.
Italian Gold in New York

As per the senators’ experience, the Banca d’Italia document does not specify how much of the Italian gold is held in New York, London and Bern, beyond stating that most of the gold that is not stored in Rome is stored in New York. However, the document does state that “the bulk” of foreign stored gold is in New York with “contingents of smaller size” located in London and Bern, so essentially it implies that the London and Bern holdings are not very large.
Of the 1,252.4 tonnes not in Rome, technically, a majority of this figure is anything greater than 626.2 tonnes. So with a simple calculation, there is at least 626.2 tonnes of Italian gold in New York.  But given that the “bulk” of 1,252.4 tonnes is in New York as the Bank’s document implies, and that “most of the remainder” not in Rome is in New York as the senator’s comments imply, then there could be anywhere up to between 1,000 tonnes and 1,200 tonnes of Italian gold in the FRB in New York.
In fact, 522 tonnes of this Italian gold that was earmarked at the Federal Reserve in New York in September 1974 was used as gold collateral for the Bundesbank loan to Italy during the first gold loan to Italy between 1974 and 1976. This collateral rose to 543 tonnes between 1976 and 1978.
London – The Bank of England

It is possible using historical data and records of Italian gold movements to estimate how much, or how little, Italian gold may be in London.  
It would appear that the Banca d’Italia does not hold very large amounts of gold in London. During the late 1960s, mainly between 1966 and 1968, the Banca d’Italia moved most of their gold that was stored at the Bank of England back to Italy. Regular shipments were exported and delivered to the Bank’s vaults in both Rome and Milan. By the end of 1969, the Banca d’Italia held less than 1,000 gold bars in London, or just under 400,000 ounces (approx. 12 tons).
Therefore, since Italian gold reserves have not in total changed very much since 1969, it would be realistic to assume that the Banca d’Italia’s London gold holdings have not changed very much since 1969, unless gold was moved back to London (or swapped back to London) after 1969. This would only make sense if it had been moved back to London for a specific reason such as to allow Italian gold lending through the London market. Gold lending only really began in London in the mid-1980s, and there is no public record that the Italians have engaged in gold lending through London.

Bern, Switzerland

Historical records from the BIS show that there wasn’t any Italian gold left in Bern after WWII, so whatever Italian balance is in Bern has been built up since 1946. It’s interesting to note that Sweden and Finland both recently published the international locations of their gold reserves, and revealed that only very small percentages of their gold is kept in the SNB vaults in Switzerland. Of Sweden’s 125.7 tonnes of gold reserves, only 2.8 tonnes or 2.2% is stored with the SNB vaults[5]. For Finland, only 7%, or 3.4 tonnes of its 49 tonnes of gold reserves are stored with the SNB in Switzerland[6].
If this Swedish-Finnish 2-7% range of allocations at the SNB was applied to the Italian gold that is reported to be outside Italy, it would work out at between 25 tonnes and 87.6 tonnes of Italian gold held at the SNB vaults in Bern. Assuming that there is very little Italian gold in London (400,000ozs or about 12 tonnes), and only a small allocation in Bern, then there could be nearly 1,200 tonnes of Italian gold at the Federal Reserve in New York.
Gold Audits and Repatriation

The Banca d’Italia state in their gold document that external auditors verify the gold held in Rome each year in conjunction with the Bank’s own internal auditors. The external auditors also verify the gold held abroad using annual certificates issued by the central banks that act as the depositories i.e.

This sound very similar to the way the German gold reserves stored abroad was audited. i.e. the gold stored abroad is not physically audited at all (although the Bundesbank did describe recently in quite a vague way that their gold in New York was recently audited by some of their own appointed representatives).

Given the widespread recent media coverage of the German Bundesbank’s plans to repatriate 300 tonnes of its gold reserves from the Federal Reserve in New York to the Bundesbank’s headquarters in Frankfurt, it will be interesting to see whether, in time, a critical mass is reached in Italian public opinion or even in Italian political opinion that would lead to the Banca d’Italia raising a similar request to the Federal Reserve.

The fact that the initial gold repatriated from New York by the Bundesbank needed to be melted down and recast (suggesting that it was low grade coin bars), does not inspire confidence that the Banca d’Italia might not face a similar problem if it attempts any gold repatriation from New York.

Source Links (all in Italian): 
Banca d’Italia gold document, April 2014
RAI gold vault video
La Repubblica gold article:
Movimento 5 Stelle article:
Movimento 5 Stelle video of visit to Bank:

[1] Excluding the IMF, Italy is the world’s third largest official gold holder; including the IMF, Italy is the world’s fourth largest gold holder.
[2] Central Bank Gold Reserves, An Historical perspective since 1845, Timothy Green, Research Study No. 23, November 1999, WGC


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Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:55 | 4721008 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture
Italy Thought They Had Over 1,000 Tonnes Of Gold At The New York Fed


fixed it

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:57 | 4721018 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

u beat me...


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:58 | 4721028 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

I may also have over 1000 tonnes of gold at the New York Fed.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:00 | 4721045 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

you're just as likely to get it back as Italy will be to get theirs

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:04 | 4721069 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

kliguy38         you're just as likely to get it back as Italy will be to get theirs


A little slow on tye sarcasm. Even without a sarc tag

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:07 | 4721082 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If Italy doesn't have Bitcoin, they don't have jack shit.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:10 | 4721098 linniepar
linniepar's picture

You don't actually believe the fed still has it, do you Italy? 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:15 | 4721126 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

how many tons are stored underground in Mali?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:19 | 4721156 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Italy may think they have, we'll toss it into bin with the rest of them and arrest them for litterin.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:32 | 4721479 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

We had their gold, until that horrible Staten Island Ferry accident.

We'll return it at a rate of 8 years per pound.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:42 | 4721502 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

If You Want Your GOLD Back From The FED, GET IN THE FUCKING LINE, Please...

GERMANY Is Already Waiting T'ill 2020 To Get Just 35% Of THeir Supposed GOLD At The FED...

Just Shuddup And Get In Line Bitchezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...



The USA Dreams Of New WARS, While China Dreams Of Owning Most Of The Phys GOLD On This Planet...

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 16:08 | 4721617 Arius
Arius's picture

get in line after Germany and who knows who else is waiting in the shadows ... pray there is a USA to honor your receipt by the time your number comes up ...

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 19:39 | 4722366 raeb
raeb's picture

ahh, we may need to settle this in cash, but it will take a few years to do the paper work, with current prices of course.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 20:15 | 4722460 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

It's interesting that all of USrael's "friends" (which only became "friends" after being invaded) have nothing better to do than to transfer their gold to USrael. The latest "friend" that alledgedly moved his gold to USrael: Ukraine.

That's somewhat strange among central bankers which have so much trust central bankers words and into the system of gold receiveables, that they even write it as one single position (Gold and gold receivables) on their balance sheets.

Why do modern people like central bankers, with the full understanding of the credibility and honesty of the system, move their physical gold around and to New York? Aren't gold and gold-receivables the same?


And why is moved only to the USA. In very few years, it is expected that China will overtake USrael as biggest economy. How much gold has been moved from USrael to China, to reflect this new economic reality? Otherwise one could conclude, that the transport of the gold to USrael had nothing at all to do with the importance of the US economy...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:47 | 4723825 PT
PT's picture

Love the headline - "Italy May Have Over 1000 Tonnes of Gold ..."

Reminds me of :

"You may have already won!!!!   30 MILLION DOLLARS!!!  I am so excited for you ... all you have to do is fill in this form, send in this ten dollar subcription ... you've definitely won, maybe perhaps ... etc etc etc" 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:39 | 4721492 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:23 | 4721182 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Karen Hudes told fonestar that the world's collective gold supply is stored in the Philippines.  OTH, the world's Bitcoin supply is stored in Satoshi's backyard.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:27 | 4721216 jaxville
jaxville's picture

Ah, the myth of Yamashita's gold resurfaces. Better not buy gold because there is a gazillion tonnes in secret gov't stashes about to hit the market.

 If there was such a stash it would have been leased, swapped or sold into the market a long time ago.

  Hudes is full of shit

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:32 | 4721233 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Hudes also told fonestar that Coneheads are directing the World Bank.  Therefore, fonestar finds Hudes to be a highly credible source of information.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:54 | 4721326 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Don't touch it, you fool! It's the Gold Reserve Eraser Button!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:04 | 4721362 Manthong
Manthong's picture

They were smart and/or /lucky to keep half their stash at home.

The rest, they will likely have to buy back from China.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:29 | 4721454 ThaBigPerm
Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:56 | 4721336 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

You forgot stolen...

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:29 | 4721465 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Yamashita's gold is not a myth. Saw one of his 4 letters of surrender. It was owned by a man 93 yrs old who's father owned the largest gold, silver & copper mines in the Philippines that were seized by the USG during WWII. His stories on Marcos, the introduction of the CB & the war were fascinating.

Hudes is a card carrying member.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:41 | 4721976 jaxville
jaxville's picture

You have seen the paper but have you seen the gold?

Where have I heard that before?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 19:03 | 4722246 heavy.metal
heavy.metal's picture

This reminds me of a Nigerian Prince I once received a letter from. He assured me he had a huge stash of gold and needed my assistance to recover it.

Unfortunately I couldn't afford to fund his travel expenses at the time, so I lost the oppotunity to earn my share of his 41 tons of gold!! (he promised me 20%)

However it's no good having so much gold anyway, as I tend to lose it on those terrible boating accidents.


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 19:07 | 4722261 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

What a coincidence, I too have been corresponding with a Nigerian prince. Soon I will not have to worry about my financial future. Too bad you couldn't front him the money. You got to spend money to make money :)

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:56 | 4721544 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Maybe the 'Big Headed' oligarch race of creatures that Hudes mentioned in an interview, have the gold.



* Yeah, she really said this and it was recorded. Do a websearch.



Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:35 | 4721955 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

When I first heard her on a radio interview, I started thinking she might be legit (and posted a link to her stuff). Then she comes out with the fricken homo capensis conehead stuff. It is clear her mission is to spread disinfo by mentioning Jesuits and Coneheads in the same sentence. Hey look - its the coneheads! Although they are awesome at math but have no ability to reproduce, they are somehow are secretly running the planet! Oh and the jesuits work for them.

The "hidden gold" angle is when I knew she was a disinfo tool. Are we really supposed to believe proper paperwork is the only thing that stands in the way of claiming some hidden pile of gold? Come ahhnnnnnn!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:31 | 4721229 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:31 | 4721234 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

It's gone

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:50 | 4721311 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Get right with Satoshi before the crack-up bitboom!  The end fiat times are nigh!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 16:24 | 4721693 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Thanks.  By rehypothecating your post, I was able to double your up arrow allotment!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:07 | 4721381 Blano
Blano's picture

I'm sure the Fed still has it, it just doesn't belong to Italy any more.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:11 | 4721101 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Where the hell have you been? 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:13 | 4721114 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar's PAL was doing p-work.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:12 | 4721108 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

yea... I was thinking the same exact thing Fonestar?!?


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:15 | 4721132 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bits are money.  Everything else is bullshit.

                                                   ~ JBit Borgan

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:08 | 4721382 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

Bits are 100% hackable, 100% of the time.  Therefore they are 100% more bullshit than everything else.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:35 | 4721496 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin has never been hacked.  Ever.

Western Union wagons carrying g0ld on the other hand....

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 19:09 | 4722269 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

Meanwhile, back in the real world even your assertion is also 100% bullshit.


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:52 | 4721554 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"Money is gold, and nothing else."

- J.P. Morgan

- Testimony before the US Congress - 1912.


Fixed it for ya.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:16 | 4721121 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:15 | 4721130 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Man if you ain't one big bitcoin pimp! Gotta give you credit though, if nothin else you sure as hell are consistent! Might start calling you bitcoinmanhoe!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:19 | 4721157 fonestar
fonestar's picture

1 BTC and you can call me Bittie all night.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:22 | 4721178 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:24 | 4721194 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You pay before you play.



Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:49 | 4721310 Praeda2
Praeda2's picture

For a guy who does nothing but talk about Bitcoin, you don't have any money in it.

$446.84 USD is the price today. The address you posted;

Total Received   24.68750033 BTC

WOW 25k, or what a couple of suits cost me.

Less internet for the broke, mentally ill Canadian, who refers to himself in the third person and perhaps you can break a lousy 100k.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:54 | 4721317 fonestar
fonestar's picture

How many internet facing wallets does fonestar manage?  How many does fonestar have in cold storage?  Your stats are meaningless loser.

And FYI, 24 BTC is a **SHITLOAD** of Bitcoin considering 99.9999% of the planet owns ZERO Bitcoin.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:17 | 4721409 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Um, ok.......this may apply to metals, but bitcoin? Not so much, just go back to your lemonade stand fonestar.

Gawd, I was just starting to enjoy the lack of posts and now this again.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:32 | 4721478 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The spamtoshi will continue until Bitcoin adoption improves.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:59 | 4721342 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Here's a good site for people who like to brag about their suits:

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:17 | 4721883 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:36 | 4721260 Eternal Complainer
Eternal Complainer's picture

How bout 'lil bitty' ?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:39 | 4721265 fonestar
fonestar's picture

...that would be fonestar's special satoshi incall service.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:34 | 4721247 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Dammit!  Quit junking fonestar.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:01 | 4721355 Payne
Payne's picture

Then stop posting so much cr*p !

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:33 | 4721482 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The spamtoshi shall never abait!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:06 | 4721072 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I'm sure the William Dudley has told them that their gold is "safe and sound and in the vault".

No need to ask any questions or confirm anything. It's all good...


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:13 | 4721106 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Italy thinks the Fed has 1K tonnes that they thought belonged to them.



Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:24 | 4721189 jaxville
jaxville's picture

The Italian authorities knew that their gold would be leased into the market when they shipped it to the fed. Actually it was likely sold in Europe after making a swap arrangement with the US (either the exchange stabilization fund or the Treasury/Fed). They know that their gold (like the Bundesbank gold) was mobilized as part of the gold price suppression scheme. They also know that getting it back will be tedious at best, if at all.

  Every country that uses fractional reserve banking and has a credit based money scheme must keep confidence in their "schemes" by not allowing the public to experience higher gold prices. The Italian central bank is not a victim here. They are waist deep in it and the people of their respective nations are the victims.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:57 | 4721339 furgheddubouddit
furgheddubouddit's picture

Based on the pace of Fed gold shipments to Germany, I've calculated that if Italy were to request all it's gold today, the delivery should be completed some time around 2095.

Anyway....what's $100 billion of gold these days.... Yellen prints that amount every 2 months.

A pittance.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:25 | 4721445 zaphod
zaphod's picture

$100B of gold today represents less than 1 month of global central bank printing

$100B of physical gold in the near future represents a pile of physical metal that takes cental banks/nations many many years of hard work to accumulate. 


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:57 | 4721021 pods
pods's picture

Lotta terrists in Italy.

On the bright side, Angela, we can ship over more of your gold.


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:00 | 4721042 semperfi
semperfi's picture

in the vatican

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:26 | 4721204 Matt_Master
Matt_Master's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:31 | 4721237 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

If they could have given Germany Italy's gold, they would have.  They don't have any of it.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:05 | 4721075 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Italy know they don't and have known that they don't for the past five years.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:23 | 4721185 midtowng
midtowng's picture

If they don't ask for it back then it doesn't make a difference.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:28 | 4721206 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture



Welcome to Hotel Goldafornia!!!

You can check out your gold anytime you like, but it may never leave!!!!!


Did all the Vinnies finally melt down their cheesy gold chains and nugget bracelets/rings?  They'd have several tons of gold then.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:31 | 4721472 DosZap
DosZap's picture

HAD, is the byword,countries having Au stored here, are insane.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:35 | 4721493 Chandos
Chandos's picture

Honest layman type question here: why would any country have even an ounce of their gold reserves - or anything else - in a foreign land?...I don't get it..looks like a terminal case of geopolitical naiveté..

Thanks for any reply

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:49 | 4722013 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

It started out because all trades were settled in gold and it was expensive to ship gold around. Each country had a reserve banks which were set up (originally) to manage the settlement of international trade. Then they started settling everything with paper, never moving the gold, just changing the name of who owned the gold. Then they moved into regional settlements within countries, killing off competitors who were not part of the cartel. Then they moved that paper process to electrons and bits on a hard drive. Then they moved into to our back pocket, where they remain to this day.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 20:25 | 4722479 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

E Level in the Fed - the gold vault - has cages for the gold holdings of varrious nations.  The big boys have their own cages, the small players have shelves in larger cages.

Used to be that national accounts were settled in gold.  To pay off your trade deficit with nation X you'd give them the equivalent amount in gold.  Was easier to simply shift gold bars from one cage to another - and this was exactly how it was handled for years.  Bars would be moved from one nation's cage to another's to make a payment.

Made sense in the context of the times IF you trusted the place where the the vault was located - in this case the NY Fed.

There was a load of gold there in the 80's - I know, I saw it on a regular basis.   Interesting stuff with lots of european bars having a series of marks from former owners - lots of Reichbank eagles and swastikas in evidence.  Mostly London Good delivery 400 oz bars but lots of odd sized 'chocolate bars' too.  Some African nations had a small spot on a shelf allocated for their holdings - a few bars. not much at all.  

What's there NOW is another story.  Personally I'd be surprised if there's ANY gold left at Liberty Street outside of the displays in the lobby.  There were rumors that after 9/11 it was all moved out of Manhattan to the Fed Operations Center in Jersey.   They moved their cash processing operations there a few decades back - brand new building (built on a toxic waste dump - you can't make this up).   Given that Manhattan sites were likely targets it makes sense to have moved the gold out.   Currency vaults are reg P - same standard you'd use for gold and the new op center had reg P vaults.

Of course the other issue is whether or  not ANY of the gold held by the NY Fed is unencumbered.  Could be that what's left has been sold and resold a dozen times - and may not even be there physically.  You may just have a pile of IOU's - which would be really easy to move to Jersey.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:51 | 4723849 spine001
spine001's picture

If you own, lets say 10 million usd equivalent of gold. And you keep it in a vault you pay storage and aadministrative fees. But if you deposit in a bank's vault, then you can use the certificate of deposit as collateral for a loan and if you are able to invest that loan at lets say 10% per year, you make 100,000.00 usd per year rather than paying storage fees. That is why Corzine had so much gold in his control. The risk is ibvious, you can get Corzined!

But that is why Countries have kept gold in SWITZELAND, USA and LONDON

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 22:21 | 4725034 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Yes, there were lots of Reichsbank bars in NY, more accurately Prussian Mint bars. When you say chocolate bars, you mean Hershey end of melt bars?

Some of the small allocations on the shelves for African nations would have been from the IMF gold restitutions in the 1970s, where they received quite small amounts of ozs.

There are 2 vaults under Liberty, the main and the auxiliary. The auxiliary is the vault through the tunnel passageway, which is within the Chase vault super-structure.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:52 | 4721561 SILVERGEDDON

Italy HAD 1000 tons of gold. It got turned into Ben Yellen bux years ago. Presto Change - o !

Pure alchemy at it's finest. And, they charged italy for the conversion apart from inflation losses.

Payback for Mussolini.  

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:17 | 4721879 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

More like welcome to Mussolini 2.0.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 02:31 | 4723128 adonisdemilo
adonisdemilo's picture


It was moved to China, for security reasons, you understand.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:55 | 4721011 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

LOL it they want to see, just ask for it back...

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:58 | 4721019 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

oh pretty please ask to look at it or have some back. Please please please please please.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:55 | 4721012 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

Yeah, that's what think. 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:55 | 4721013 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Not anymore, it's long gone.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:17 | 4721137 kw2012
kw2012's picture

There is probably one bar left, a token amount so that these snake charmers can say "Italy's gold still resides in our vaults."

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:45 | 4721537 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Ha. They have a photograph of a bar of Au with "Italian Central Bank" printed on it.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:56 | 4721016 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"Italy Had Over 1,000 Tons of Gold Stored At the New York Fed."

there, fixed it for ya....

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:47 | 4721023 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Italy had over 1,000 tons of gold at the Fed"-  fixed.


Damnit Kaiser, something about great minds...

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:56 | 4721580 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

mutual, L to the O to the P....

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:57 | 4721025 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I'm pretty sure they are pissed.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:57 | 4721026 PlusTic
PlusTic's picture

good luck gettin any of that back from the blood-sucking whores at the it a write-off, like sheets after a party at Berlusconi's villa!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:59 | 4721027 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

You fucked up trusted us!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:03 | 4721062 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

1,000 tonnes of tungesten.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 18:28 | 4722121 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

i wonder why the SNB in Zurich recently installed tank resisting bars around their building at Bürkliplatz. Stuff that makes you go hmmm

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:58 | 4721030 semperfi
semperfi's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:59 | 4721035 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Italy's gold advisor Simon Black was unavailable for comment and referred all questions to Shanghai where the gold is currently stored.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:59 | 4721036 Ribeye
Ribeye's picture

lol, MAY being the operative word, 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:59 | 4721037 youngman
youngman's picture

Possession is 9| 10s of the law....if you cant touch it..its not yours....and its not in those vaults anymore..just a piece of paper saaying that someone owes you that Italians speak Chinese???


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:21 | 4721176 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Why you need an interpretor?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:00 | 4721041 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

corzined bitchez

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:01 | 4721046 Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

France...  the country that brought Bretton Woods down...  what is its "gold" story?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 19:12 | 4722281 heavy.metal
heavy.metal's picture

This might give some clue:


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:01 | 4721049 Cow
Cow's picture

It could happen

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:02 | 4721051 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

No problem Italy. Take a number and stand over there behind Germany. Thanks. 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:22 | 4721180 negative rates
negative rates's picture

And don't hold your breath.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:02 | 4721054 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Now Italy has 1000 tonnes of gold in China.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:21 | 4721174 CHX
CHX's picture

Now Italy is prowd owner of 1000T paper claim gold.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:02 | 4721056 Joe A
Joe A's picture

No it doesn't. If you don't hold it you don't own it.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:02 | 4721057 Racer
Racer's picture

I would have thought the Italians had more sense than to do something THAT stupid

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:03 | 4721060 Hockey Goon
Hockey Goon's picture

Royally Fungoo-d

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:03 | 4721064 agent default
agent default's picture

Italy probably had 1000 tones of gold.  Not so sure now.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:04 | 4721067 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The owners of the FedRes and the BoI have taken it into their
private custody to safeguard it. I'm sure.
Seemed to have mislaid that location.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:05 | 4721073 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Hold a minute, I have it around here somewhwere.  Can you I call you back?  Click. 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:05 | 4721076 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:08 | 4721090 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'm surprised Zero didn't push U.S bonds in his short Russia sales pitch. Does he have his securities license? Better take a peak at broker check. He may have violated a law.... oh wait....

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:11 | 4721102 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

thats a great point doc. you know he pitched stawks in 2009 and we saw what happened. this winter he pitched Myra......

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:11 | 4721393 Blano
Blano's picture

If he doesn't need a valid birth certificate to be Prez, why would he need a license to pump bonds?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:11 | 4721100 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

How far down are they going to take it fonz? 2% 1.5% again?


Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:14 | 4721123 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

who knows man...anything Japan can do, we can do better. There seems to be a gap opening up between the fed stepping away and fiscal policy not stepping in, it would seem logical that the market would fill that gapand if it does it will be violent.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:21 | 4721175 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

It's a good thing inflation is "well contained" at 2%. 




Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:31 | 4721226 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Actually Yahoo is reporting  inflation at 1.5%.... lol.  Which BTW is where the ten year will end up before this is all overwith. When? I don't know, but we will get there.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:34 | 4721249 Jackagain
Jackagain's picture

Except for food, oil and other commodities...(cough)

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:05 | 4721077 markar
markar's picture

and... it's gone!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:05 | 4721078 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Bwahahahahahahahaha... I thought the mafia was smarter than that.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:08 | 4721088 BrigstockBoy
BrigstockBoy's picture

Hey Tyler, shouldn't this be classified as Friday Humor?!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:09 | 4721091 Not My Real Name
Not My Real Name's picture

I love the Friday humor posts, Tyler. Keep 'em coming!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:09 | 4721093 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

Thieves never change their stripes. They just change their names to Benanke, Yellen, Fischer, Bullard, Dimon, Blanfein....LOL

What is next great lie when Italy asks for all that gold back? Waiting..1  2   3  Queue Satan..

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:18 | 4721144 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

But it sez right here on the receipt, 1000 tonnes.....

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:48 | 4721305 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

But IOUs are a good as money - this guy says so.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:09 | 4721094 WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf's picture

Thieves never change their stripes. They just change their names to Benanke, Yellen, Fischer, Bullard, Dimon, Blanfein....LOL

What is next great lie when Italy asks for all that gold back? Waiting..1  2   3  Queue Satan..

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:11 | 4721099 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

up next: the U.S. fed calls all the european nations and says, why don't you let us keep an eye out for your gold, seeing as Putin is on the March. We will even let you in on a program that we do to 'make your gold work for you'

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:12 | 4721107 homonohumanus
Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:13 | 4721112 kw2012
kw2012's picture

Italy can get their gold after GERMANY does.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:35 | 4721252 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

ie never.  Maybe they can buy it back from China.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:13 | 4721115 BadDog
BadDog's picture

Sounds like it may be time for another operation gladio.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:02 | 4721358 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, there is already 1 underway in Ukraine.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:16 | 4721136 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

"Repatriated" can't possibly be the right word, since it means that Italy's gold bars have been sitting in safekeeping in New York for a while and are now coming home.  There is NO chance that this is so. Headline of the future: Italy to be Compensated in Greenbacks for Missing Gold

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:18 | 4721149 Jano
Jano's picture

a big thank you fom NY to Rome.

and where the hell is Ghadafi gold?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 15:01 | 4721356 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

(somewhere in the City of Londonstan)

"I say, Cedric, help me get these Libyan crates open and down to the secret vault"

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 20:28 | 4722485 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Well, Chavez got Venezuela's gold back right affter the whole Libyan thing...... anyone see what the bars they got looked like?  Lots of arabic writing maybe?

Ukraine's gold is next up for delivery........

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:18 | 4721150 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture


Possession is 9/10's of the Law.

Dumb Ass Italians! They Trusted us. Tee, Hee, Hee...

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:33 | 4721243 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

Yes, and they will be compensated in 1s/0s.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:18 | 4721151 CHX
CHX's picture

China's laughing all the way,

holding ~1000T Italian oro now, so I say. 

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:23 | 4721184 Obama_4_Dictator
Obama_4_Dictator's picture

Those are IOU's, they as as good as money.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:25 | 4721198 Au Shucks
Au Shucks's picture

Good thing they have the Vatican encircled, b/c there is more gold there among other pilfered, stolen, plundered treasure and knowledge than perhaps any other place on the 3rd rock from the Sun

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 20:33 | 4722495 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

I'm wondering when the West invades India.......  lots of privately held gold there - and apparently some of the temples there have really big basements FILLED with past donations.

Surprised the British didn't take possession for 'safekeeping' while they were running the place though apparently the Reserve Bank of India has had some thoughts along those lines....

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:25 | 4721202 dumbStruck
dumbStruck's picture

Italy's gold is still on the books at the fed I'm quite sure, listed under deep storage gold. If they want the gold back they'll need to get in line behind Germany to wait while it's being dug up.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:27 | 4721210 elephant
elephant's picture


Italy officially holds 2,451.8 tonnes of gold, worth more than €72 billion (US$ 100 billion) !!!

Numbers amaze me. This is a huge number and Italy is (was?) the #3 holder of gold in the world, but every month for years the Fed would give this amount away in paper.

What is money?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:36 | 4721257 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Money must be


1. General Acceptability
2. Portability
3. Divisibility
4. Cognizable
5. Homogeneity or Uniformity
6. Durability

7. Preserves buying power.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:59 | 4721348 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

.....and, that would be PMs!!!

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 17:25 | 4721916 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

8. In your possession.

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