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"We Are Essentially At War" Ukraine Admits, After Dozens Killed

Tyler Durden's picture


While there may be some confusion about why massive bond buying greeted yesterday's "better than expected" loss of 209 jobs in the 25-54 age group, dragging stocks down, the answer is actually very simple: there is a war in the Ukraine.

A war which just took a turn for the worst after at least 42 people were killed according to Reuters in street battles between supporters and opponents of Russia in southern Ukraine that ended with dozens of pro-Russian protesters incinerated in a burning building. The riot in the Black Sea port of Odessa, ending in a deadly blaze in a besieged trade union building, was by far the worst incident in Ukraine since a February uprising that ended with a pro-Russian president fleeing the country.

The clip below, not for the faint of heart, shows anti-government protesters jumping from the burning Odessa trade unions house: it appears when Yanukovich was "killing" protesters in February, the west couldn't get up in arms fast enough screaming for the former president's overthrow. But now that the acting post-CIA funded coup government is doing the same thing to its own protesters, the radio silence is stunning.

But while yesterday's tragic events in Odessa were the first time the Ukraine conflict manifested itself in pro and anti-Russian clashes in the Black Sea town, it will hardly be the last: not only does the port city have economic and military significance, it also sits between Crimea and pro-Russian areas in eastern Ukraine and the breakaway Transnistria region of neighboring Moldova.

The admission of the true state of affairs finally came from Kiev itself which said that Ukrainian forces pressed their assault on separatists today, freeing up a regional airport as the head of the country’s anti-terrorist center warned eastern regions are “essentially” at war.

The campaign in the Donetsk region left five dead from the Ukrainian anti-terrorist operation and 12 wounded, said the center’s chief, Vasyl Krutov, at a Kiev briefing, even as military observers were freed by anti-Kiev militants. Government forces have secured the town of Slovyansk as operations in Kramatorsk continue.

“What is happening in the east is not a short-term action, this is essentially a war,” Krutov said today.

War it is:

Open clashes are sweeping Ukraine’s east, from Donetsk near the Russian border to Odessa, about 100 miles from the European Union’s southeastern frontier in Romania, amid signs the industrial and coastal regions are slipping out of the Kiev government’s control. The U.S. and the European Union accuse Russia of being behind the unrest, while Russian President Vladimir Putin is “extremely concerned” and is studying the situation, his spokesman Dmitry Peskov, said today.

There was some good news: military observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe who were taken hostage a week ago were freed and will be delivered to the Council of Europe in Slovyansk near Donetsk, the council said today in a statement.

Bloomberg reports further that the U.S. and EU accuse Russia of stirring unrest to undermine Ukraine’s May 25 presidential election. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said at a briefing today in Jezioro, Poland, that officials are “losing hope” about a diplomatic solution to end the crisis.

This is a war of maybe a different kind, it is a war that’s undeclared,” Tusk was quoted as saying by PAP newswire at a media briefing. “But what we’re really dealing with is de-facto a war. You can clearly see that actions taken by the international community haven’t brought results.”

To be sure, Ukraine and NATO is putting all the blame on Russia - not only for instigating the conflict but arming the separatists, seemingly oblivious of factual evidence that it was the US that was doing precisely the same just over three months ago when it was orchestarting the overthrow of the then government.

Ukraine’s Defense Ministry said the use of advanced weapons showed the separatists were “professional saboteur groups” rather than peaceful protesters. In a statement, it called their tactics “characteristic of foreign military or mercenaries.”


Turmoil erupted yesterday in Odessa, where more than 130 people had been detained by police, with 10 criminal cases already started, according to Petro Lutsyuk, the head of the Interior Ministry’s directorate in the city, said on the agency’s website. The Interior Ministry later said on its website that Lutsyuk was fired.


The nearby city of Nikolaev hosts much of the country’s defense and shipbuilding industry, as well as Zorya-Mashproekt, a state enterprise that manufactures gas turbines for OAO Gazprom (GAZP), the Russian natural gas producer and exporter.

Meanwhile, the theater by western leaders hit a new peak yesterday when Obama and Merkel did all they could: threaten more sanctions. At their news conference in Washington, Obama and Merkel said Russia must pull back support for the separatists so Ukraine’s May 25 presidential election can go ahead unimpeded. If the vote can’t be held, “we will not have a choice but to move forward” with more sanctions, Obama said. Merkel called the election “crucial” and said she’s ready to support economic sanctions if needed.

Ironically, it is German commercial interests which as we said back in March, are doing all they can to prevent sanctions of Russia as they know well they would be the biggest losers. Germany is Europe’s largest economy and had $127 billion in trade with Russia in 2013, according to the International Monetary Fund, making Germany is Russia’s second-biggest trading partner. Putin has threatened to escalate economic warfare if further sanctions are imposed.

“When we will reach a particular tipping point is very hard to say in advance,” Merkel said. “But all I can say is that the elections on May 25 are a decisive juncture for me and if there is further destabilization, things will get more and more difficult.”

Expect more furious bluster out of Germany and Obama, hoping that verbal escalation will finally cause Putin to pull back. It won't. Meanwhile Putin is keeping quiet. Which is the second good news because as we showed yesterday, all Putin has to do is give the command.


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Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:24 | 4723430 So Close
So Close's picture


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:28 | 4723434 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

There is war in Ukraine??? But but. VIX is 12. How could that be #UNRIGGED

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:29 | 4723437 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Just the same I picked a few more stocks in the MIC category...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:50 | 4723494 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

So... War in Ukraine means buy Netflix, right?

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:55 | 4723499 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

It will also mean sell Gold. Not mine, mind you. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:15 | 4723537 intric8
intric8's picture

dont you two bitchez dare show your face around here unless you're as pretty as me. WAKE UP UKRAINE!!!

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:20 | 4723548 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Pretty Face(s)....

The conflict in Ukraine HAS NOTHING TO DO with Ukraine. The conflict in Ukraine is the ‘official’ beginning of WW-3, because of the collapse of debt-money—money borrowed at interest, to infinity—in a finite planet.


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:24 | 4723556 prains
prains's picture

No better place to hide than in the Fog of Woar

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:09 | 4723683 strannick
strannick's picture

I guess the Mainstream Media will just blame Putin for burning 12 people alive

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:20 | 4723720 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Already did...and correct # is more than 12..and many survivors terribly injured..

I am told from Odessa friend that many women and even kids were in that building when the beasts threw fire..

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:35 | 4723990 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I said it before ..  all Vlad has to do is drop piles of AKs and RPGs wherever the Fascists are NOT and the problem will fix itself.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:49 | 4724185 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

War is how civilization learning things the hard way

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:05 | 4724212 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Liveleak video of burned bodies, courtesy of USSA/EU

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:24 | 4724255 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Parents of the world, do NOT let your children fight this war!  Confucius say:  Sometimes the best way to fight a war is to not show up.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 16:31 | 4724394 Arius
Arius's picture

i'll get Kerry and Lavrov together and lock them up until they come up with s lasting arrangement! ... and just in case bring Biden as an enforcement .... are these guys going to behave like adults  and stop these adolesencse behaviour of not picking up the phone because you said smt i did not like ... grow up!

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 17:25 | 4724504 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

You have the amusing belief that Kerry and Lavrov actually have a say...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 19:09 | 4724669 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

If Pukin doesn't move now, he will be seen as a PUSSY, which is by the way, what he is, A PUSSY!  Too bad we have a BIGGER PUSSY in the White House.


TPTB want war now, it is their only way to try to avoid worldwide collapse...moar broken windows, FORWARD Soviet!


Read up on the Fabian Socialists sometime...I mean we all know Oblahblah is related to the windshield cowboy Bush, right?  Lookup Ann Dunham...cousin to the Bush's...ain't that swell.


Confucius say, Man who Fuck on Ground, get Piece on Earth!  


Good luck, Via Condios Amigos y Amigas, Brothers and Sisters all!!!!

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 23:23 | 4725127 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

putin has time on his side.  he doesn't need to move more than a wink and a nod.  he has morale, momentum, and, as a judo extra, the fool's momentum of his opponent to direct as well.

clash say he who fucks nuns will later join the church.

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 01:57 | 4725317 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“Kerry and Lavrov together and lock them up until they come up with a lasting arrangement”

Nah.. lock both Horseface and O’Bonzo in a cage with this one until a compromise is reached:

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 03:17 | 4725367 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


At least now that they've met the 'war' requirement, the IMF will be willing to release the loan to the Ukraine.

It may seem like stickling, but conditions are conditions.

No bodies, no money.

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 08:43 | 4725549 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Mo-bodies, mo-money?

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 10:12 | 4725652 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Ukraine is not Chicago.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:26 | 4724617 mt paul
mt paul's picture

in the nuclear age..


the only true enemy

is war itself...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 19:10 | 4724675 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I wonder if MAD still applies here?  Let's fuckin' hope so!

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:49 | 4724187 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Vlad will show up with the big guns soon enough. He is letting the Ukraine gov't hang themselves before full commitment of the Russian military. 

Putin: + infinity

golfing pigeon: 0

Ukraine gov't: - infinity 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:59 | 4724201 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Warmongers are machines. They connot be human because NOTHING can justify this.

Not all over again.

Not for such specious reasons.

Also interesting what a general sense of inevitability and blaise-ness to it all.

Coming to a neighbourhood near us.

Anytime. The "great" HG Wells predicted it. He had written, and I have th esource somewhere, that there would come a time in the world when sstreet bombs were so common that it was common to consider everyday you made it home a good day.

That is their vision anyways. Iraq/Libya/Syria/Somalia/Southern Sudan/Nigeria/Congo are living it. Pakistan, Afghanistan....On and on.

Munition usage and weapon replacement.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Buy UTX. The F-35's a sure "fire" winner.


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 20:39 | 4724828 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

meanwhile, stockholm nation continues to look for news of the missing Boeing

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:48 | 4724008 Lore
Lore's picture

Maybe the number '12' is a mistake resulting from poor web page translation of "dozens." 

Did you notice the blackness of the smoke pouring out?  The nazis must have used some sort of incendiary. You don't negotiate with psychopaths who pull a stunt like that. You start another fire and throw them on it. 

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 10:14 | 4725655 JesusUp
JesusUp's picture

ciafbinato is controlling tactics from kyiv, thus

the WACO solution,

case peasants elsewhere(us) get ideas

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:47 | 4724016 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Pro Russian people used the building to escape the Euro Maidan death squads in the streets, many of them bused in from Kiev. There were women and children there as the building seemed a safe place to hide from the street violence. Nobody was occupying the building as part of protests. The videos show clearly the whole expisode and how people died. Many faces of Euro Maidan gang members are clear on video, even those throwing fire bombs to burn the people. Thise who escaped the fires were beaten by the Euro Maidan gangs, again, this is all on video. The Euro Maidan movement gets daily pay checks from the USA and EU, 40-50 Euro per day to support these fighters for the EU. Thus, the EU has funded with money the murders, in public, of many ordinary Odessa people. This is a crime, terrorist in nature.

The USA has claimed Putin is responsible now for these deaths, and Euro Maidan employees of the US State Department did the killing because Putin made them do it.

The mental sickness and power grab by the rulerrs of the USA and EU has now gone beyond rational into the realm of pure Nazi Power Politics and murder. The vidoes show many faces of the killers. Western media is either saying little or blaming Russia for Euro Maidan killers actions.

In the East, military moves are more about Ukrainian army taking checkpoints and holding open roads so that Right Sector and Euro Maidan gangs can come into towns and villages to do their dirty work.

The civil war has now begun, the people of the East must have no choice now but to fight, or be killed by America's Euro Maidan gangs. The question about Russian intervention remains open, for now I don't see Russia entering Ukraine. The west is trying to bait Russia into invading, the actions of the west show that they want war and now Ukrainians will die in large numbers so that EU and USA leaders can have the war they want so badly.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:04 | 4724073 Tradehard
Tradehard's picture

Absolute bullshit! There was a peaceful pro-Ukraine rally by footbal fans which was attacked by a group of pro-Russians, killing 4 people. Pro-Ukrainians retaliated and the Pro-Russians fled into the building, getting what they deserved! You reap what you sow.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:13 | 4724102 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

Zev Blitzer? welcome to ZH!

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:19 | 4724119 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Buses of paid outsider radicals had been arriving by bus for weeks...

had been instructed to keep low, but everyone knew about them..

That is direct from my friend in Odessa...which is city population 80% plus opposed to Kyiv gang

there was 2000 of the animals, threw fire and burned women and kids

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:17 | 4724235 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

If that is true and I believe it is.....holy shit...where do they train these sociopaths that carry out such orders? Are they producing them in some deep black intelligence project.....

Un believable what we do....hmans that is. The sword lynchings in Libya, public baying for blood....


Planetary scale madness...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 20:19 | 4724444 macholatte
macholatte's picture


where do they train these sociopaths that carry out such orders?


C'mon ORI. They are everywhere. They're called the military and they're called the police. All day, every day men, and now women, are trained to just take orders and attack head on. They are not held responsible for what they do except in certain politically correct moments. They are trained not to think about consequences or the rightness of their actions. Cops everywhere arrest and brutalize people. Soldiers are trained to kill on command.  Nothing new here. Why are you shocked?


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:55 | 4724976 Lore
Lore's picture

All valid points, but beware of the tendency to generalise.  SOME cops are psychopaths. SOME soldiers are psychopaths. SOME lawyers, nurses, bankers, politicians, bankers and environmentalists are psychopaths. In a work environment dominated by psychopaths, you find quickly that your career is unable to advance past a certain stage, because they can spot their own kind and weed you out.  "SHIT FLOATS TO THE TOP." 

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 09:45 | 4725614 new game
new game's picture

alphas, way species organize in a "higher" order...i say morph to a real human if not already(majority already live compassionate lives!); oh and burn a bank, if you need to vent some frustration-empty of humans, of course...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 20:47 | 4724846 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

well, even here on ZH there's the odd commentator that has more than a little bloodlust (not you, dude)

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:22 | 4724123 SDShack
SDShack's picture

So Tit for Tat violence is your view of world diplomacy. You are a perfect tool for sociopaths. Learn to identify root causes of problems, and focus efforts on eliminating the root cause. Only the rigorous enforcement of the rule of law will provide the correct mix of freedom, peace and stability.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:28 | 4724142 Mr. Delicious
Mr. Delicious's picture

They deserved this?

Your assessment is, of course, a false one.


Had "pro-Russians" murdered "pro-Ukrainians" you'd be making quite a different claim, wouldn't you, you bitch?



Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:59 | 4724331 Tradehard
Tradehard's picture

''Had "pro-Russians" murdered "pro-Ukrainians" you'd be making quite a different claim, wouldn't you, you bitch?''

Read my post again. THEY DID! THEY KILLED 4 PEOPLE! Pro-Russians drew first blood in this conflict! I don't need live leak because I get my information from people on the ground right now in Odessa.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 16:00 | 4724332 Tradehard
Tradehard's picture

''Had "pro-Russians" murdered "pro-Ukrainians" you'd be making quite a different claim, wouldn't you, you bitch?''

Read my post again. THEY DID! THEY KILLED 4 PEOPLE! Pro-Russians drew first blood in this conflict! I don't need live leak because I get my information from people on the ground right now in Odessa.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:58 | 4724661 Overflow
Overflow's picture

probably they did it again.  Remember snipers at Maidan...  a few "false flag" shots and the beast is released.


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:50 | 4724309 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"peaceful pro-Ukraine rally by footbal fans"


Wow.  Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:32 | 4724147 JR
JR's picture

This is what de-escalation looks like when the Geneva agreement signed last month left out one of the key participants in the Ukraine crisis: the people of Ukraine. They were not asked if they agreed to step back and let the banker wave pass over them: tyranny, debt and loss of liberty.

Instead, they didn’t leave the administration buildings they took over and they refused to back down in face of Ukrainian armor (NATO).

On December 13, 2013, Victoria Nuland (born Nudelman), said that the US State Department had spend $5 billion to take “Ukraine into the future it deserves,” by which she meant, according to Dr. E. Michael Jones, “ripping it away from Russia and handing it over to EU and the looters from the IMF.”

Nudelman is the wife of Robert Kagan, “a notorious Neocon warmonger and one of the key figures behind the Project for a New American Century, the group of Neoconservatives which pushed the Bush II administration into America’s disastrous trillion dollar war with Iraq.”

The main weapon in the war, says Jones, is the NGO, the non-governmental organization – one of which is the National Endowment for Democracy which currently is giving financial support to 65 groups inside Ukraine to “destabilize a government in the name of ‘democracy.’”

Writes Jones in Culture Wars: “The Jewish Hungarian Billionaire George Soros was also heavily involved in funding Ukrainian NGOs, as was the CIA. All of them working hand in glove with the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The goal was to load the Ukraine down with debt and then take over Ukrainian assets when they defaulted on their loans.”

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:02 | 4724557 Continue With This
Continue With This's picture

Money is just a tool for the zionists.

Since they print it, since they control all tax havens, since they control all black funds and black pools of money around the world, I think that they are not after more money.


Control of people is the real deal. These zionists want to be demi-gods on this Planet, with their satanic AntiChrist being the God-in-chief.

Every event they cause has only one real objective, who might be hidden in many other objectives: control the people.

Debt is just the tool for them. With debt you enslave people, and that is the real objective.


Soros and his ilk tried the same shit in Romania in 90's, immediately after the '89 revolution, attempting to balkanize the country.

Groups of ethnic hungarians, who are about 25% of Transylvania's population started rioting and causing violence against Romanians.

An Icelandic TV crew, who just happened to be at the exact place and time, recorded a violent beating of a man, Mihaila Cofariuwhom they claimed it was a Hungarian being beaten by Romanians.

When in fact it was a Romanian being assaulted by Hungarian thugs.


Somehow, elements of the Romanian secret services, managed to get the situation under control, and Romania didn't balkanize.


Soros also is funding many NGO in Eastern Europe, some of them being involved in demonizing Romanians and trying to confuse Western audiences.

That's why in the last 10 years, there is this talk of Romanians and Romany people (the gipsy). The 2 terms only create confusion.

Romany, being a political correct word for the gypsies.

Ask your average Western European about the Romany people, and they will all think you are asking them about the Romanians. There is this demonizing of Romanians in Western Europe, mainly because of crimes committed by gypsies.

Now many gipsies from Eastern Europe, not necessarily from Romania, when caught claim to be Romanians.


Also, there is this Vlax concept, devised by a Soros NGO, claiming that Vlax is somehow a language spoken by the Romany people.

Vlachs (plural) is the old word to identify Romanians. The Vlachs were the Romanians of the middle ages that prior to 19th century were identified also as Vlachs.

Spot the confusion trick? 


We in Romania, know exactly what Soros is up to. The dismemberment of Romania, and apparently the creation of a gipsy state in southern Romania.

An ex-army general, wrote a book about a plan made at the end of the 80's by Soros and co. to do exactly just that.


Somehow, up until now, those plans haven't materialized themselves. Yet. I don't want to congratulate the Romanian secret services yet.

But there  is a general idea in Romanian society, that there is a hidden war in Romania between ex-Communist Party Members and ex-Securitate (secret service) guys.

Kinda like Putin (who is ex-KGB secret service agent) versus ex-communists.

Who were the ex-communists? Zionists in disguise and mainly globalists.


But the work is done at least into brainwashing Westerners to think that gypsies = Romanians.

The same demonizing is done to Russians now. 


Soros and his ilk are very good at using and manipulating ethnic and racial groups of people, and making them kill each other. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 19:54 | 4724745 JR
JR's picture

Our understanding of the pattern of IMF and NATO is that the IMF "monetary system" generally enables the political leaders of a country to solidify their positions by giving them more ammunition in governing their people, particularly an increase in military armaments and capability in order to strengthen their rule and to assist the purposes of a US-dominated NATO .

And, as you say in your highly informative and excellent post, to use debt as the tool to control the people.

My question is, from your vantage point, what are the developments in Romania as the Ukrainian crisis continues in relation to what we read here in the media?

I see that yesterday Romania’s Foreign Minister Titus Corlatean requested a strengthened presence of US and NATO forces in Romania in response to the Ukrainian crisis, visiting Washington to discuss the situation with members of Congress and the Senate.

His visit included Sen. John McCain who wants an Aegis-class missile defense based eventually in Romania, and Sen. Dan Coats, member of the Senate Intelligence Committee who wants increased sanctions on Russia and wants to destroy the favorable coverage of the Sochi Olympics which Putin and Russia received, saying “we need to destroy this narrative.”

Most of this is attributed to a report by Romania’s ACT Media.

The IMF playbook, as described by John Perkins’ Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, dictates that in countries involved with the IMF, the people’s standard of living will not be raised. Instead, the politicians get more help to strengthen their control over the population and the IMF gets the people's resources and the power. In short, inefficient tyrannies are turned into efficient tyrannies.

If the Economic Hitman is successful,

“…the loans are so large that the debtor is forced to default on his payments after a few years. When this happens, then, like the Mafia, we demand our pound of flesh. This often includes one or more of the following: control over United Nations votes, the installation of military bases, or access to precious resources such as oil or the Panama Canal. Of course, the debtor still owes us the money—and another country is added to our global empire.”

It appears Romania is falling ever more closely into US domination - from being the “tiger of Eastern Europe” of the 2000s it then suffered severe recession and became the largest debtor to the IMF in 2010.

Wikipedia: Romania:

“Worsening economic conditions led to unrest and triggered a political crisis in 2012.”

Combined with the intentions of US Neocons to strengthen US military presence in Romania and statements such as the following from Hillary Clinton (US Secretary of State 2009), is this not a widening extension of US/Zionist Empire?

“Romania is one of the most trustworthy and respectable partners of the USA.”,+US+Military+Presence#sthash.uTEgLGSX.dpuf

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:18 | 4724850 Continue With This
Continue With This's picture

Mainstream media in Romania is spinning the same idea that MSM in the West says: Russia bad, Kiev good.

They all get their propaganda material from the likes of Reuters, Washington Post, BBC and such.


The comments of the people reading those propaganda materials though, are not so much pro-West. The opinions are divided: some side with Putin, some with NATO.

You need to take into account the fact that Romania lost territory at the end of WW2. Mainly Moldova, what is actually called the Republic of Moldova, is in reality the eastern part of a historical region called Moldova, half of it being now in Romania. Moldova was historically part of Romania, until the 19th century, when Russian empire started having an influence in the region. After WW1 went back to Romania only to be lost to Stalin (the famous Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which forced us to join the Nazi to get Moldova back).

Because of this, many Romanians are highly anti-Russia, because, well Soviet Russia made that possible, and some are still with the mindset that  Soviet Russia = today's Russia.

But at the same time, the economic situation, where Western corporations bought everything on the cheap, and the politician's mantra seems to be "we need to privatize everything from water supply companies to the electrical grid companies, well simply coz' we gots to do it" and the fact that the standard of living isn't great, and after the privatisations, everything is not like the politicians say will be, but way more expensive, many Romanians are waking up to the idea that the West might not be so "benevolent" like those peachy-puffy Hollywood movies.


In 2010, our current president, informed us that we need to take a IMF loan to the tune of 20 billion USD, "to pay the pensions and finance infrastructure projects". When does IMF gives out loans to "pay pensions"?

Then Romanians had a 2500 USD per capita external debt. After that loan, debt magically has risen to 5000-6000 USD per capita, but no infrastructure projects have been even started. We are the country in Europe with the least KM of motorways per capita.

Before the loan, external debt of Romania was about 35% of GDP, and now is 65% of GDP. Basically, one giant rape by the IMF, facilitated by our crony corrupt political class.


The real deal of that IMF loan was to give it to Western banks (Austrian, Italian, French ones) so that those banks could then pass the money to the home-base (mother lands) to keep them solvent, especially the Austrian and French ones, like Erste and Societe Generale.

The  money didn't go "to pay pensions", since pensions were cut. Some teachers were fired, and the rest saw their salaries cut.

Oddly enough, the last years, police salaries have increased, and police riot gear  look very similar to Western ones. Romanians hardly ever protest, so I'm familiar with Romanian police gear, because a Romanian protest is always breaking news, since it happens so rarely.

So when the 2012 riots broke out, well the police riot gear looked renewed, westernish in appearance and definitely military-looking also.



So in this economic climate, I'm sure Romanian politicians (corrupt Western puppets) will want young Romanians to fight for them, in the coming WW3.

Problem is, many young ones, if they are somehow forced to enlist, the first thing will do will either desert, or start some real revolution in Bucharest.

I don't think politicians will be that stupid to give young Romanian weapons. That's why, in 2004 I think, Romanian army went from mandatory every men enlisting, to mercenary wage-slave soldiers.


Also in Romania, there is a war now  between the President (right wing apparently), which is seen as pro-American, and the prime minister (socialist apparently) which is seen as "the Moscow man". I don't know what to think.

The president is definitely an ex-Securitate agent. The prime minister is part of the PSD (the socialist democratic party) which are the heirs of the ex-Communist party.


The daughter of the President (which supposedly is anti-Russia, he made some public remarks which can be seen as anti-Russia, like his famous remark that "the Russians see the Black Sea as their own lake"), has a law office, and she represented Gazprom in Romania, in some important deal the Russians made.

So it's hard to tell who is who, lots of smokes and mirrors.


Curiously enough, the Romanian president has Crimean Tatar blood in him. We in southern Romania have a small minority of Tatars, which historically have come from Crimea.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:34 | 4724945 JR
JR's picture

Thanks for your response, Continue With This.  Sadly it is an on-the-scene detailed report of why man needs independence and why the international banking cartel is determined to stop him. It’s clear this world problem is coming from the central bank – the Federal Reserve banking cartel – that uses the money it creates out of nothing to buy power. It is this central power that keeps House Speaker John Boehner from being an American; that keeps Titus Corlatean from being a Romanian.

We must find people for office who don’t have a price...

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 20:22 | 4724796 JR
JR's picture

By the way, Continue With This, the war rhetoric continues to worsen. Paul Craig Roberts had this to say on Thursday in Washington Intends Russia's Demise:

On May 1 Washington’s former ambassador to Russia, now NATO’s “second-in-command” but the person who, being American, calls the shots, has declared Russia to no longer be a partner but an enemy. The American, Alexander Vershbow, told journalists that NATO has given up on “drawing Moscow closer” and soon will deploy a large number of combat forces in Eastern Europe. Vershbow called this aggressive policy deployment of “defensive assets to the region.”

In other words, here we have again the lie that the Russian government is going to forget all about its difficulties in Ukraine and launch attacks on Poland, the Baltic States, Romania., Moldova, and on the central Asian states of Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. The dissembler Vershbow wants to modernize the militaries of these American puppet states and “seize the opportunity to create the reality on the ground by accepting membership of aspirant countries into NATO.”

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 13:07 | 4726067 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

That being the case, Putin should just take decisive action and take over Ulraine now. The Israeli clearly realize Putin is not going into Ukraine in order to avoid giving them an excuse to put their combat forces at his doorstep. The Israeli are getting impatient and damn the torpedo. 

May be we should just machine gun all Middle Easterners (ex-jews) so Israel will feel safe and peace on earth. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:00 | 4723883 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Hello Mr. President.  This is Doucheborg Norgebag from the Nobel committee.  We want our prize back.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:49 | 4724020 Eyeroller
Eyeroller's picture

Or just as likely:


Hello Mr. President.  This is Doucheborg Norgebag from the Nobel committee.  We want to give you another prize.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:10 | 4724093 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Aksel Lie.


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:20 | 4723944 RSloane
RSloane's picture

I look forward to my usual Sunday morning dose of propaganda on the so-called 'news' programs tomorrow. The fact twisting would make a pretzel maker envious. Those supposedly neutral news analysts are always good for a laugh. Today they're busy memorizing whatever the White House has told them to announce tomorrow.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:56 | 4724036 Manthong
Manthong's picture

" the radio silence is stunning."

..not a freaking word about Ukraine on the clear frequency 50kw blowtorch radio station in the midwest here, this morning.

To my way of thinking, they are failing the public in their license to use the channel.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:34 | 4724150 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It would make an interesting law suit; attract attention to the issue. It's THE issue; the non-media media is what needs immediate attention right now.

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 00:24 | 4725228 BeansBulletsBandaids
BeansBulletsBandaids's picture

I surf the SW band looking for news. I've yet to find much useful other than radio Cuba or stations out of AUS/NZ......

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:56 | 4724199 JR
JR's picture

The US media is owned by the same oligarchs who stand to benefit from the addition of Ukraine to the American/Israeli global empire.

E. Michael Jones writes in Crimea River: The Hypocrisy of U.S. Foreign Policy:

“The Ukraine offered ‘a tantalizing bounty,’ of agriculture and diversified heavy industry which was begging to be taken over by financial elites working through IMF loans. In addition, military bases and long range missiles would destroy Russia’s geopolitical hegemony over the Eurasian landmass, a goal of the Anglo-American empire…

“Taken together, the US- and EU-financed NGOs constituted a fifth column which was determined to hand over the assets of the Ukraine to the financial interests of the West.”

This is how Jones describes the IMF coup: “The purpose of the coup was to put IMF operative Arseniy Yatsenyuk in power with the help of Ukrainian fascists.”

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:21 | 4724602 mt paul
mt paul's picture

Fog of Woar...


at the thought

of moar

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:27 | 4723563 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

True enough.  America will not go gentle into that good night.  A coup from some patriotic(god help us!) faction may be our only hope;  redirect some of this existential angst back on the propagator.  Might buy us a few years.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:06 | 4723910 BRZgixxer
BRZgixxer's picture

Ecrava Isaura, é tão raro encontrar gold-bugs no Brasil...

Estou no RJ, e vc?


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:19 | 4724227 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture


Escrava Isaura, é tão raro encontrar gold-bugs no Brasil... Estou no RJ, e vc?

Slave Isaura, it’s rare find gold-bugs in Brazil.... I am in Rio, and you?


Washington, DC


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:07 | 4724586 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

to wit,

"It was always inevitable, on a finite planet, that there would be a limit to economic growth. Industrialization has enabled us to rush headlong toward that limit over the past two centuries.

 Production has become ever more efficient, markets have become ever more global, and finally the paradigm of perpetual growth has reached the point of diminishing returns. Indeed, that point was actually reached by about 1970.

 Since then capital has not so much sought growth through increased production, but rather by extracting greater returns from relatively flat production levels.

 Hence globalization, which moved production to low-waged areas, providing greater profit margins. Hence privatization, which transfers revenue streams to investors that formerly went to national treasuries. Hence derivative and currency markets, which create the electronic illusion of economic growth, without actually producing anything in the real world."


Richard K. Moore


"Geographical expansion is a concomitant of real decline and coincides with `a time of troubles’ or a universal state - both of them stages of decline and disintegration."


Arnold Toynbee


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:48 | 4724649 exartizo
exartizo's picture

...almost but not quite.

this (spreading) war is over energy and other scarce resources.

money and its concepts fiat or otherwise are subordinate to that larger picture.


Sun, 05/04/2014 - 04:00 | 4725393 karutzar
karutzar's picture

The russian help shall come at may 6th - the day of Saint George - and Putin (as Saint George) will crach the head of the dragon.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:57 | 4723502 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

Somebody at the CIA fucked up good when they thought that the Egypt model to overthrow Morsi would work in Ukraine. It's a shame that people are going to die now because of this.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:00 | 4723509 WordSmith2013
Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:13 | 4724917 caconhma
caconhma's picture

To all Putin admirers,

 The man was so busy with the Olympics in Sochi with close to $50,000,000,000 being stolen by him and his associates, so he missed the US organized collapse of a vital to Russia security a neighboring country.

Putin is a POS and I expect him being overthrown soon.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:08 | 4723526 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Uh, the CIA installed Morsi. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:51 | 4723638 luckylogger
luckylogger's picture

Who dat???

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:19 | 4724241 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Don't confuse people on here with the facts.

Pushing of the zionist-banker-nwo cabal must not be disturbed.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 16:46 | 4724430 All_Your_Base
All_Your_Base's picture

"If I like your tyrant, you can keep your tyrant."

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:10 | 4723528 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

Mind you the CIA model in Egypt was throwing Mubarak and manufacture a civil war. Morsi was and still is supported by the USA. overthrowing Morsi was a fail to the CIA plan. You know the US is not as powerful as they thought or once were.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:16 | 4723538 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Correct.   They attempted the Libya model with some tweaks in Egypt.  Didn't work out and now Egypt is much closer to Russia.  Maybe that's even part of why we have the Ukraine situation now along with Russia's support of Assad in Syria.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:52 | 4723641 sushi
sushi's picture

Neither KSA or Israel were happy with Morsi so he had to go.

Israel also abstained in the vote which sought to condemn Russian intervention in Ukraine. There appears to be an alignment between Israel and Russia over Ukraine but a conflict over Syria.

KSA and Russia appear to be in alignment over Egypt but in confllict over Syria.

The world is so confusing when I'm sober.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:48 | 4723828 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Or the goal was chaos in Egypt, Libya, Syria,...

Mission accomplished.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:58 | 4723879 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Drunk and stoned is much better.  The music sounds awesome.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:27 | 4724261 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

You're utterly clueless indeed.

Israel's hope was that Mubarak would remain in power indefinitely as he was someone they trusted. They never for a moment were interested in Morsi.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:37 | 4724631 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Concur.  They had a working relationship with Mubarak who kept a lid on the "brothers".

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:29 | 4724267 JR
JR's picture

NO! You are in error. Again, it was the use of US taxpayers’ money that targeted and overthrew Morsi’s democratically elected government. 

US Bankrolled Anti-Morsi Activists: US Money Trail to Egyptian Groups that Pressed for President’s Removal. | Global Research | July 10, 2013

...a review of dozens of US federal government documents shows Washington has quietly funded senior Egyptian opposition figures who called for toppling of the country’s now-deposed president Mohamed Morsi.

Documents obtained by the Investigative Reporting Program at UC Berkeley show the US channeled funding through a State Department programme to promote democracy in the Middle East region. This programme vigorously supported activists and politicians who have fomented unrest in Egypt, after autocratic president Hosni Mubarak was ousted in a popular uprising in February 2011.

The State Department’s programme, dubbed by US officials as a “democracy assistance” initiative, is part of a wider Obama administration effort to try to stop the retreat of pro-Washington secularists, and to win back influence in Arab Spring countries that saw the rise of Islamists, who largely oppose US interests in the Middle East.

Activists bankrolled by the programme include an exiled Egyptian police officer who plotted the violent overthrow of the Morsi government, an anti-Islamist politician who advocated closing mosques and dragging preachers out by force, as well as a coterie of opposition politicians who pushed for the ouster of the country’s first democratically elected leader, government documents show.

Information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, interviews, and public records reveal Washington’s “democracy assistance” may have violated Egyptian law, which prohibits foreign political funding.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:38 | 4724632 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

All of that is wrong, sorry.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:45 | 4723814 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

It is becoming clear the Kiev junta does not want to hold the upcoming national election, isn't it?  If they are confident they will win the poll, they would not be taking military actions now, just a few weeks from the scheduled election date.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:27 | 4724141 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner. Plus Merkel and 0zer0 are now warning Russia to pull back, or the elections are in jepordy. It's so obvious that the BEST the West is hoping for is a permanent stalemate in Ukraine, much like the Balkins prior to Nato involvement. The West needs genocide before they can "save the children". Of course, if that means the West launching the genocide through a proxy war, so be it. The LAST thing the West wants right now is an election in Ukraine because they know the Fascists Coup Leaders will be routed.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:52 | 4724028 itchy166
itchy166's picture

The CIA overthrew Mubarak and supported Morsi.  So it didn't "work" in Egypt either...



Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:37 | 4724157 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

And their "model" did work in Egypt ? Nobody died there ? The Bay of Pigs was a big success story too; not to mention Vietnam. Kenndy told his brother, the attorney general, he was going to tear the CIA into little pieces and scatter them to the wind; that's why both he and his brother got "single lone gunmaned".

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:45 | 4724300 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

How could Egypt scenario work in Ukraine when it didn't even work in Egypt.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:30 | 4723442 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture



At least now that they've met the 'war' requirement, the IMF will be willing to release the loan to the Ukraine.

It may seem like stickling, but conditions are conditions.

No bodies, no money.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:39 | 4723465 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Just because you moved your post;

The IMF can release all the "loans" they want.  looking at the N.A.T.O. forces that would be willing to walk into this mess is another thing all together.

Eventually people in the west are going to ask all those stuffed fucking shirts to send their own children into battle.  The western "leadership", and 'merica in particular has long been willing to sacrifice the children of the sheep and I do see us at another major tipping point as far as that is concerned.  Another generation of vets looking at a serious lack of opportunity and wondering why the fuck did I endure what I did to keep these motherfuckers so wealthy when I can't feed my family, let alone send my kids to the same ivy league school?  Fuck em.  I hope my brothers in arms start turning their unique "skill set" upon those who really deserve their attention shortly.

Got to be optimistic folks.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:42 | 4723473 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

With the NOTAM issued this morning with a no fly zone around Crimea and Rostov, I would not be shocked if the airborne assault does not begin shortly, if not at dark tonight. Look for the Spetsnaz to lead the way.


05.03.2014 Ukraine Update: Is this the Weekend Putin Puts the Hammer down on the Ukraine?
Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:50 | 4723493 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Kiev junta is dead within the next few weeks. I also wouldn't be disappointed.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:45 | 4723618 TungstenBars
TungstenBars's picture

I'll drink to that!

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 15:19 | 4724244 Manthong
Manthong's picture

If only Noodleman would be passing out cookies when the Fascists get spanked.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:47 | 4723623 spine001
spine001's picture

A draft in Colorado. Just a thought that came to mind, can you imagine a draft happening in CO.? The army would need to quickly start growing pot or face mass unrest.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:00 | 4723659 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the MIC has its own drugs, mandatory for the volunteers, agreements signed, etc.

some even experi-mental.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 22:23 | 4725018 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

the MIC has its own drugs…


I knew a US Army engineer that served in Viet Nam back in the 60’s.  He was a particularly “religious” man who did not drink alcohol, smoke dope or ingest any “unapproved” drugs.  He did however drink an inordinate amount of Coca Cola while on duty in the country which led to a pretty hideous health condition that has plagued him ever since.

This is /was due to the fact that, much like in the Middle Ages when wine, beer and “imported" liquids were far safer to drink than local water supplies in the country soldiers had sworn to “protect”, it was presumed Coca Cola was safe for US enlisted personnel at the time.  Unfortunately after years of consuming only Coca Cola, his system was in far worse shape than if he had gone ahead and drank the imported “domestic” beer.

His personal Catch 22 required him to sign off any future health issues associated with his service if he wished to return to civilian life. At first he resisted to sign off but after the 3rd or 4th time, (and over a year of life), it became evident the military would keep him in purgatory until he “saw the light”,he acquiesced and gave away any future right to compensation / treatment so he could at least spend time with his wife and kids before he died.

I guess my point is, war / battles will carry generations of ill will among participants and others whose relatives and acquaintances were negatively affected.  Auschwitz and the Nazi death camps are not unique in their call for remembrance,



Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:17 | 4724113 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

yeah especially that little fucking weasel Yatsunyuk

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:42 | 4723476 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

we are essentially at that the same as "kind of pregnant"

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:12 | 4723532 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

The West is war-weary....well, let me put it this way.  The leaders of the West know their armies and populations are war weary.   It's one thing to destroy small nation-states with bombers, cruise missiles and jihadist mercenaries.  It's quite another to attempt a "boots on the ground" operation after more than a decade in Afghanistan.  Moreover, I have faith that even these sociopaths understand a direct war with Russia is not in their interests.  

Really, where will the soldiers come from for a US ground war somewhere?   A draft?

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 13:21 | 4726090 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

The idea is to tie up Russians military resources so our dear leader's master can do whatever they want in the middle East. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:05 | 4723557 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture


Are you sure about your name, related to science and logic, it’s appropriate around ‘many’ hedgers?


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 13:17 | 4723940 sleigher
sleigher's picture

"Many pirates do not yet appreciate the importance and potential value of these yachts."


Good thing we are printing it in the news then.  This kind of logic always baffles me.  Although I doubt pirates watch CNN.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:45 | 4724765 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Although I doubt pirates watch CNN...


You're right, we're all here reading the comments on ZH.

But at least for me, I've been busy singing and teaching my grandson the song from Eisner's Pirates of the Caribbean:



Sat, 05/03/2014 - 20:22 | 4724801 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Bloody great big radar targets that literally guzzle marine diesel (as in most literally gallons per nautical mile).

"Real" Yachts rely on wind power. Real yachts are going to be THE desireable asset if things do turn out for the worse.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:32 | 4723771 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Eventually people in the west are going to ask all those stuffed fucking shirts to send their own children into battle."

Care to cite a documented historical example of this?

America has had some of the lowest military death rates of any nation ever. In the context of the major powers - allies and enemies - of any of the wars (declared or not) it has fought, everyone else always lost more soldiers (and civilians, obviously). These are simple documented facts.

If anything one would have expected the Soviet people to refuse military service following Afghanistan. Instead they went on to not one but two Chechen wars of choice. And I assume even you know what life was like for the average Red Army soldier and, for the few who sruvived, vet, and their families. "Another generation of vets looking at a serious lack of opportunity and wondering why the fuck did I endure what I did to keep these motherfuckers so wealthy when I can't feed my family, let alone send my kids to the same ivy league school?" doesn't even begin to describe it.

One could say the same for just about every European country, China, Korea, and Japan. But as it didn't happen. Never happened, never will happen.

You can be optimistic all you want, but not at the cost of being realistic...

"I hope my brothers in arms start turning their unique "skill set" upon those who really deserve their attention shortly."

History says otherwise, but it's a nice thought.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 14:52 | 4724193 Kayman
Kayman's picture

50,000 young Americans killed in Viet Nam stopped all enthusiasm for the war.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 21:55 | 4724981 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

You do not seem to know much about why Soviet was in Afghanistan (long before the "invasion")

And even less about Chechnya...just luck that today Saker explained briefly  about why Soviet acted there..

See this and the followup:

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:52 | 4723496 toady
toady's picture

I found it interesting that their was no stipulation that they win. It appears that a large pile of bodies is all that's required.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 16:58 | 4724448 Whatta
Whatta's picture

Yeah, amazing. Watching VIX (or UVXY to trade) when it starts really spiking, and $TICK dives south, mysteriously a buy program kicks in at $TICK less than -1000 and runs it back up to $TICK +600 or higher....volatility averted. So...BTFM (M=market) at TICK <-1000, hold it 10 minutes, sell and laugh.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:27 | 4723753 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 17:54 | 4724559 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Putin is allowing this to continue for a reason.  By letting the Keiv govt. go in and attack pro-russian supporters and people and kill puts them in a bad light and him in a good light when he pushes an invasion.  Also by letting this happen it makes the pro-russians mad and wanting to fight and therefore they will be armed (by Russia) and allowed to attack the west with help from Russia.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:29 | 4723433 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Well I guess you shouldn't have let the fucktards from the west interfere with your democratically elected  government in the first place.

The majority of Ukraine is Russian, period.  Please, people don't revolt in Texas when communities elect hispanic mayors.  Gee, I wonder why?


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:49 | 4723492 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Why not? We let Soros fuck with our government so I guess the Fed said "Sure, go ahead just let us and the BoE profit from your actions".....

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 10:55 | 4723500 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sociopaths will always exist.  The point was, people define their borders, not the other way around.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:09 | 4723530 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

"people define their borders"

Very true, and judging by the USA's borders Americans are soft, porous, flaccid, and weak.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 17:01 | 4724452 Whatta
Whatta's picture

We should get rid of all borders and live free.

Except Oklahoma...keep them all shoved in that joint.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 20:01 | 4724755 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

...get rid of all borders...Except Oklahoma...


(Andrew Jackson approved this message.)

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:37 | 4723595 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

If people defined borders they wouldn't exist. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:07 | 4723679 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I can tell you don't live in a Western state.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:24 | 4723736 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

I can tell I do.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:27 | 4723748 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

And those straight lines were created by geological forces?

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:34 | 4723776 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

Not sure we're on the same page.  Same book though, I think.  Borders don't exist- straight line or curved- but in the mind of the colonized.  People have been crossing the desert as long as there have been people. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 23:44 | 4725169 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Borders are imposed by hook or crook. They are a traditional stepping stone to forms of "federation" of various distinct groups of people existing within unrecognised and unapproved borders, the tactic of cutting peoples up into false borders assists long term strategies that are designed to shift decision making power to a few that are compromised in loyalty and therefore more easily controlled by the carrot and stick.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:05 | 4723516 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I will say this:


I think that Ukraine was near a tipping point anyway.  I think that we just gave it that extra push that it needed to get to this point, thinking that we'd get a puppet government.  I think that a lot of the protesters at Euromaiden were genuinely pissed off about the corruption in the Ukrainian government.  And I think that shit spiraled out of control with Svoboda and Right Sektor, and those people, who were genuinely pissed off, did not get what they really wanted, even if they do not realize it at this point in time.  It's something to keep in mind.  Being genuniely pissed about corruption and whatnot does not guarantee that something good will happen.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:28 | 4723561 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

El Vaquero…

Iran and Syria will be... the real tipping point


Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:52 | 4723640 spine001
spine001's picture

North Korea is the only truly out of control Power in the world. The spark will come from there. Please dont forget Germany's ex PM hugging Putin. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:12 | 4723696 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

North Korea*


You spelled The United States of America wrong.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:52 | 4723635 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

Which is why I try not to bitch about this system toooo much.  As corrupt and blood thirsty as it is, at least I know how to live in this system.  And I assume everyone reading this does too, as they have connection to the internet and the disposable time to spend.  I can function in this system and thrive- tho the cognitive dissonance(*groan*) can be disconcerting. 

The next system- be it gold, guns, germs or steel- I don't know how we'll fare.  Prep as they will, know one knows what's next.  I know I don't want to live in the Mad Max world some here salivate for.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:05 | 4723667 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Right, but the US Revolution shows that being pissed can do something.  The footage that I saw out of Ukraine looked like mob violence, but I don't think some of it was.  The firebombing of the APC, for example, looks planned.  But on the other hand, random people shooting fireworks at the Berkut looked like mob violence.  A lot of people were there, and a lot of different goals were there with them.  I think that is the key - what are the goals of the people stirring shit up?  Are they consistent?  Think about OWS, with a lot of people who knew that there was something that they should be pissed off about, but could not articulate what it was.  Had that turned violent, it would have been co-opted. 


You had better know where you are, what is possible and where you want to be.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:26 | 4723702 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

The US revolution shows many things.  One group of nouveau oligarchs can wrench power away from the establishment if they can galvanize the rabble behind them (yes, some learned this lesson very well).  They may have to grant some concessions as the new oligarchs don't have the power of force of the old guard, but what a small price to pay!  The history of America is the struggle for what those oligarchs promised, but were reluctant to grant.

OWS communicated quite clearly.  Not through a dictator, but I believe you know what their issues were.  We're still waiting for a savior I suppose.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:46 | 4723821 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"The history of America is the struggle for what those oligarchs promised, but were reluctant to grant."

The history of political economy is the history of those at the top making promises to those beneath, and those beneath never learning that all promises from above are either empty lies or bait and switch con jobs, all serving the same end.

"We're still waiting for a savior I suppose."

And always have been, and always will be.

All messiahs are false messiahs.

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 08:49 | 4725561 sleigher
sleigher's picture

This has been my argument with all of these "liberty" people.  They say they want freedom and liberty but they don't do anything to get it.  They wait for a leader to bring it to them.  Maybe it is the American mindset and programming causing it.  

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 13:28 | 4726109 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

Would you do anything if you have a TV remote control in hand ?

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:10 | 4723686 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I think its important to highlight what you pointed out:

Prep as they will, know one knows what's next.

Prepping is a short term solution to what is essentially a long term problem; how to make it in the new system that appears to be coming. I am not sure how many people, if any, really know what that looks like. I just ask myself "Why kind of skills will be most in demand". I am basically 40 and back in school workikng on a second degree (while attempting to finish off my debts).

Will have to wait and see.



Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:37 | 4723731 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

Prepping gives people a feeling of control when, in reality, they have little control.  Have we ever been so dependent?  The knowledge of the community- whether it be food production, natural healing, ecology, child development, elder care- have all been relinquished lock stock and barrel to government and its corporations. 

The answer, IMO, is not to go John Rambo, but to l(earn) and return knowledge back to the community.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:38 | 4723789 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

What is the point of doing that when .gov can come and take anything and everything you make?  Why bother when they can just outlaw everything you do and confiscate everything you own?

No, without Rambo you will just be put in a pretty cage and so will your kids.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:41 | 4723799 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

It's a difference of opinion.  Neither of us know what lies over the ridge.  You put your faith in Rambo; I'll put mine in community.

Perhaps we can share a cage together, no?

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 17:10 | 4724458 uniman
uniman's picture

The secret of success is to just stop participating in, or cooperating with, the old system. Just disconnect from it. Next, learn to cooperate with your new Brothers instead.

Disconnecting only works for people who have already been shat out of the system. If you still have a "real" job, real estate, cars, insurance, licenses, bank accounts, etc., then you're chained to the existing system and cannot do anything except piss 'n' moan about it. Anything more and your precious tokens of servitude will be taken from you. As long as you _must have_ these things, then the system holds them hostage on your "good" behavior. But once your trinkets are gone, then you have nothing left to lose. A man in such condition suddenly becomes much more powerful and dangerous. You think you cannot live w/o all this stuff? Then you're probably right. Go back to your cage and stop that fucking bleating! The rest of you come with me and let me show you something.

Imagine rebuilding a society of people from the ground up. Think homeless people living in tents. They have to live somewhere, so they homestead various places. They have to eat so they organize soup kitchens or, gasp, even start to do some farming. All of this takes land and political permission that won't be given easily. So the Brothers have to take and hold these things. They do so by engaging in some heavy duty non-violent civil disobedience with the goal of "just leave us alone."

Because the Brothers have nothing that can be easily taken, fines and citations mean nothing to them. The only power .gov has is to incarcerate them. But doing so costs money that .gov no longer has. (think small suburban towns at first) And for what charges? How long will anybody be jailed for doing their laundry in the fountain in front of City Hall? In addition, all of the machination of State has individual human beans behind the curtains pulling the leavers who can be held personally accountable for their crimes. Any .gov and any individual that fucks with a Brother becomes targeted for bankruptcy via what I'll general lump together as vexatious litigation. Let them all get the message "don't fuck with a Brother! Just leave 'em alone."

There's a lot more to be said about this but I'll spare you for now. Please see The Brotherhood Report for a fictional treatment of these ideas.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:22 | 4723733 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The kind of skills needed will require an apprenticeship, not a degree. 

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 12:36 | 4723780 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Your generalization is true because it is generally true. But it is not an absolute truth. My situation is unique.



Sun, 05/04/2014 - 08:52 | 4725565 sleigher
sleigher's picture

"Why kind of skills will be most in demand".

Field repairing an AR-15?

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 13:27 | 4726105 Joenobody12
Joenobody12's picture

Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:14 | 4723536 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

The majority of Ukraine is not Russian.   Facts would be helpful in the discussion.  Examining a population map of Ukrainian provinces by ethnic population will clearly show a few provinces with majority ethnic Russians and sometimes those majorities are just a bit over 50%.   I believe the highest figure I saw was 74% in the region of Donetsk.   Outside of those border regions ethnic Ukrainians are 70-90%.  

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:51 | 4723636 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Before everyone gets wrapped around the axle, allow me to offer some perspective:

1. Why does it REALLY matter if they are Russian or Ukrainian? They're all Slavs, of very, very similar linguistic, cultural and religious background. There's far more that unites them than divides them.

2. Anyone else notice that it's once again dumbass/fake Christians killing other dumbass/fake Christians? A REAL "Follower of Christ" would not behave that way. And SHAME on the "Christian" Churches for not speaking out loudly, clearly, strongly and persistently. But all of us with half a brain know that the clerical elite have been compromised or bought into complicit silence a very long time ago. And yet the rest of the Flock keep supporting them and keep attending their "Beat-down-then-build-up-feel-good" therapy sessions, called Mass or Church Service.

3. Do you ever see Jewish tribes going to war with each other (outside a board room perhaps), or bankers, politicians or oligarchs of a given country sending their sons to war?

Whoever said "What if you had a war and nobody showed up?" was right.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 11:55 | 4723645 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

You think this is a Christian on Christian religious war? What are you smoking? Pass it around when you finish smoking out the rest of your brain.

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