This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
San Fran Fed Asks "Is It Still Worth Going To College?"
The last time the intellectual titans of the San Fran Fed, which have made a living out of asking probing, kindergarten-level questions and then spending tens of thousands of taxpayer funds to answer them, performed in depth inquiry into a topic was about a month ago when it asked "How Important Are Hedge Funds In A Crisis." To its dismay, it found the answer to be "very." Today, the intellectual titanism continues when the regional Fed, which Janet Yellen called her home for so many years, asks (and answers), "Is It Still Worth Going to College?"
Its findings in a nutshell:
Earning a four-year college degree remains a worthwhile investment for the average student. Data from U.S. workers show that the benefits of college in terms of higher earnings far outweigh the costs of a degree, measured as tuition plus wages lost while attending school. The average college graduate paying annual tuition of about $20,000 can recoup the costs of schooling by age 40. After that, the difference between earnings continues such that the average college graduate earns over $800,000 more than the average high school graduate by retirement age.
...
Although there are stories of people who skipped college and achieved financial success, for most Americans the path to higher future earnings involves a four-year college degree. We show that the value of a college degree remains high, and the average college graduate can recover the costs of attending in less than 20 years. Once the investment is paid for, it continues to pay dividends through the rest of the worker’s life, leaving college graduates with substantially higher lifetime earnings than their peers with a high school degree. These findings suggest that redoubling the efforts to make college more accessible would be time and money well spent.
So the answer, in a nutshell, is "yes"... as one would expect of course: because in a world in which marginal revolving debt demand is virtually zero, and in fact declines on many months of the year, the only source of consumer credit - that opiate for the Keynesian masses and certainly for their shamans - for the past five years, is simple: car loans and, to a far greater degree, student loans.
Oddly enough, having perused the paper several times, and having done a word search for both "loan" and "debt" (both of which return no hits), we find zero mention of one particular hockeystick. This one:
Perhaps for the San Fran Fed to be taken seriously one of these years, it will actually do an analysis that covers all sides of a given problem, instead of just the one it was goalseeked to "conclude" before any "research" was even attempted.
- 18135 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -




For your career and potential income earnings (in relation to the debt you take out)? No.
For the parties, drinking, and pussy? Yes.
No one forces you to attend commie infested ivy league colleges where you earn a lesbian studies degree. If you want to drink your way to a worthless degree at inflated prices, don't blame others.
You make it sound so interesting that I may consider going back.
That is an insane chart. Almost like the Fed's balance sheet.
Where the hell is all that money going? Straight to the banks to pay off bonds?
We are so utterly and irreversibly fucked.
pods
Where the hell is all that money going?
What money? That's last real money I've seen is watching it that last little sparkle from the sunlight as it sank down to the bottom of the lake.
“Is It Still Worth Going To College?”
Um, yeah.. for the bankers and college faculty..
Silly citizen.. how else could we keep this great debt bubble growing, the professors and staff overpaid and in luxurious retirement, and the youngsters indentured?
A better question:
Is it still worth working at the Fed?
The Zero community really hates college and professors for some reason. Here is the skinny you dopes:
You should not take out loans to major in woman's studies. You would most likely be justified in taking out a loan to major in engineering and you work hard.
was it ever worth having a bunch of zionist punks running our money supply?
They should take that hockey stick and beat Yellin and her pals with it.
jbvtme was it ever worth having a bunch of zionist punks running our money supply?
---
So what if it were catholic nuns running the money supply? How about some tribe in South America? Then would you be saying, "was it ever worth having a bunch of nuns running our money supply?
the zios do a nasty job of money management. by what expertise do they question our education system? and what does a trillion dollars worth of student debt have to do with their musings? if the fed was run by nuns and they were doing the same destructive job of ruining this country, i would call them on it.
You can learn engineering without four years of slavery and a house or two worth of loans. Libraries and tutors are fast and cheap.
The only problem is that you will be violently prevented from working as an engineer without certificates from the abusers.
It's called racketeering.
4 years of slavery? House or two of loans ($1,000,000)? You are being ignorant, dramatic, and you are exagerating. I shouldn't even dignify your post with a response...but,
1) Engineering programs have lab-work and other types of hands-on work as well as computer labs which provide you with the engieering software you need. You cannot get that in a library.
2) A degree proves that you know some minimum amount of knowledge.
3) Unless a person had proved himself with previous documented work/projects (and a shit load of it), I would not hire someone without a degree.
4) College is a great place to learn/study/grow. Don't hate it because easy money polluted its waters a bit.
Grow up. Don't be so spiteful of people who obtained a college education. It makes you seem jealous.
Also, a good engineering program can easily run <$50,000. You make that and more in a year with a BS.
I'm not going to build your nuclear power plant on 50,000.
Well...not one that works very good at least. I'm pretty sure it takes more than plywood, some 2x4's and some nails.
That's what I'm told at least.
As long as you got the credentials, you can EASILY make 6 figures right out of school. If your resume/CV says that you "learned engineering in a library" you might not get a call for an interview.
I'm not bashing those who are self-educated. In today's world, you can learn ANYTHING from the internet/library resources. I'm just saying that you can't compare a library education to a 4-year engineering program. Not even a little. It may be good enough to build a home brewery though!
In today's world, you can learn ANYTHING from the internet/library resources. I'm just saying that you can't compare a library education to a 4-year engineering program. Not even a little. It may be good enough to build a home brewery though!
These statements are inconsistent. Either you can learn something from the internet/library resources or you can't... If you learn something, then the source is irrelevant... Aside from the fact that library learning + apprenticeship is here to stay via economic necessity... so, fight gravity all you want.
I would even say that someone who is motivated enough to learn engineering by teaching himself is probably a better candidate/more motivated than his college graduating counterparts. Of course, if he's hired, it will probably come along with incredible social awkwardness and even a smidge of narcissism, but I digress.
The source is not irrelevent. VERY bad assumption. I won't even waste my time.
Of course you can't be bothered to actually discuss the issue. The source of learning is irrelevant presuming that two people who have learned the same thing have the same generic abilities to perform a job, all else equal. If we're not concerned with the matters actually learned, then things such as the "prestige" of the institution might be relevant given students are forced to gamble as to which name drop will open doors. Having a college degree does not necessarily entail that you actually learned anything... I would know... I have 3 of them... I take that back, I did actually learn something, don't bother trying to hurt your back getting the 400lb moo moo up the wall on the "team building" ropes course... There's no substitute for actual experience and real world results.
Of course you can't be bothered to actually discuss the issue.
It's a pretty ridiculous argument. The main point of attending a good college is access to resources / people you don't have access to elsewhere. Could you learn a lot of the material on your own time? Of course. Next....
So easy to discount notions by simply coming up with fallacies for arguments.
Like I said, I am not bashing self-education. But the FACT is that a library education does not equal a 4-year engineering program. Perhaps it does for women's studies, but not for engineering.
You keep saying this over and over again without remotely attempting to support your claim...
LOL... this isn't speculation for me, pal. I lived it!
Lived what exactly? Care to elaborate, or do you just downvote?
IMO there are some fields where college is appropriate for getting an education - engineering, medicine, pharmacy, etc
Many kids are getting degrees in areas where what is taught in college has absolutely no relevance to what they do on the job. Few get a true liberal education (critical thinking skills, logic, rhetoric, etc) from college, either. That is, the skills which liberate one's mind so that you can think for yourself.
Why would he be jealous of debt serfs?
Most potential engineers are interviewed by other engineers. You only have to prove you know enough to do the job -- there's no way to fake your way into an engineering position.
Incorrect Stycho.
I worked with a guy that got hired as an engineer to sign off on large scaffolds and formworks on a project I was on.
Turned out he had been a train driver, true story.
Hands down one of the dumbest comments I have seen on ZH in a while and that is saying alot. You want people building critical and massive infrastructure projects who are primarily self-educated with limited outside tutoring helo?
These articles always bring out the anti-intellectual nitwits on this site.
So, anyone not certified by violence-backed systems is a nitwit?
You drank the Koolaid son.
Dupe.
For most people, going to college is a good way to remain un-educated.
A relative of mine has provided a small sum on a monthly basis to help support a poor girl in the Philippines. The girl is now attending college over there and will begin her junior year. She mentioned in a recent letter that they had announced that class schedules will be changed 'due to global warming' concerns. (I have no idea what 'justifications' they are spinning or what that's all about.) The girl asked my relative how 'global warming' was affecting things where she's living. My first reaction on hearing this was, "Groan -- This crap is all over the world."
They sure don't teach critical thinking skills in colleges today. They don't encourage skepticism, curiosity, or creativity.
Go to college and pay to be brain washed, indoctrinated.
There are some technical fields that require the degree, but IMO most people would be better served by buying a set of The Great Books of the Western World and learning the critical thinking skills of the Trivium. (And you could go no cost by checking the books out from your local library.)
Philosophy: from Greek 'philosophia' - - "love of knowledge, pursuit of wisdom; systematic investigation
If anyone thinks the above definition has anything to do with what goes on in colleges today, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you
Dude, seriously... They still teach that ozone garbage in Australia and openly talk about it on the news, even though they essentially gave up trying to sell that lie to the US.
Mind you these are some of the same countries that call the US a backwards nation.
What struck me was that this kid is in college and apparently there never is a discussion of both sides of the issue. And as for Climategate - they never heard of it.
both sides of the issue
Yes, the one with near 100% scientific consensus + all the facts and the other side.. the one without any facts or any legitimate researchers backing it.
Just like going to the doctor. First get your family doctors opinion, then get another doctors opinion (most likely roughly the same) then seek out an astrologist to hear an alternate take.
BOTH SIDES BITCHEZ!!
You've spouted several obvious logical fallacies, so I'll just assume you forgot the sarc tag.
If you were actually serious, I won't bother to respond. You'll have to do your own homework on so-called 'man made global warming' (you do know the planet has actually been cooling for several years, don't you ?) And you'll need to educate yourself on logical fallacies. I no longer bother with anyone older than about 30. Most old farts refuse to learn anything new.
You'll have to do your own homework on so-called 'man made global warming'
Imma let exxon handle this one:
http://corporate.exxonmobil.com/en/current-issues/climate-policy/climate...
Perhaps for the San Fran Fed to be taken seriously one of these years, it will actually do an analysis that cover all sides of a given problem, instead of just the one it was goalseeked to "conclude" before its research even started...
Yes, would be nice if they looked at why it has suddenly become so expensive rather than if it's worthwhile.
http://bambooinnovator.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/college.png
Perhaps a little too close to home?
Exactly JC. No one ever asks why tuition is going up at 10 times the rate of inflation. They just ask why there aren't more government grants. Colleges are worse than sports teams raising ticket prices!!
When the FED encouraged LIAR LOANS, we got a housing BOOM - a rapind rise in the price (but not the value) of homes world-wide, remember?
The spike in College tuition echoes the same underlying problem: EASY MONEY, EASY CREDIT. And when money's easy, prices soar...
So, who's behind the creation of debt and loaning it out at lighting speed? The usual suspects....the world's economic heroin dealers.
Debt is the plan, and the Plan is slavery.
@StanleyKubrick - absolutely on target.
Internet stocks, houses, and college loans - - - nothing but more fodder for Ponzi schemes.
And Janey wonders why her bachelors degree in psychology only qualifies her for the waitress job she coulda got out of h.s.
True doc, but if I say Joobux I will get banned.
How about conjured up Future Labor Coupons? We can show them as chunks of you life you agree to pay the bankers so they can type in the 37 keystrokes to create it?
People might then thing twice about getting a "loan."
pods
Man-hating is required study at all education levels.
I think that's Mangry 101
"I think that's Mangry 101"
then my ex musta had a freakin' Phd in that
Even lesbians need a good cock now and then...
Translated: Are students still worthwhile debt servicers?
For the parties, drinking, and pussy? Yes.
College pussy is overated.
So my junkers like meaningless one night stands with drunk girls who can barely put a sentence together. Okay.
So my junkers like meaningless one night stands with drunk girls who can barely put a sentence together.
I'm fully on your side, SG. Anyone who takes a stupid 19 year old girl over an enthusiastic 30 year old woman... well... stupid is as stupid does.
I gotta stay out of that debate, my better half would slit my throat for either of them.
pods
Not if she was 15 years older and owned a fancy nightclub-restaurant, a new high end auto, and looked like a Nordic goddess.
Why did my young dumb ass let her get away and go pursue my dreams in chemical engineering? The gal actually liked me, offered to pay me 10% more than my highest offer. My college job was bartender so OJT was in place. Momma raised an idiot.
No part of college was wasted on this Southern Boy.
pics or it didn't happen
Since we are talking about college being worthless except for pussy, I will now bless you with the Gospel of John Holmes. True story. I only changed His name and bugout location to protect the guilty.
John was at a prestigious university working on a Ph.D. in a hard science. He didn't have enough money to feed his gun habit so he went homeless and moonlighted as a gigolo. He had a Terminator physique, which he advertised by riding his bike around while wearing only a g-string and a dog collar. He got laid more than all the nerds combined. Most of his clients were female. Most of them were surprisingly hot.
Since John was homeless, his only suitable love nest was his grad student trailer office. It became a source of loud moans and S&M sounds which kept the poor nerds distracted as they struggled with problem sets at 3am. He got kicked out of his office pretty quick. Next he set up camp on the roof of a university building. The climate was friendly. The spot was invisible enough that he was up there for a surprisingly long time, I am guessing six months minimum, and he only gave it up because it was affecting his business. His stained mattress was still up there a couple years after that. John's final place was a proper apartment. OK, maybe not proper. The whole building was a bit ghetto. The landlady was a crazy smackhead. She also didn't like him doing drugs with clients at 3am and smacking the bedboard against the walls. She and John ended up in a spiraling war. She called the cops. He trashed the washing machine. She (supposedly) burned his car. He felt like the walls were closing in. He was also increasingly disgusted with civilization in general. He wanted to bug out. But first, a spectacular Fuck You!
The one who finally pushed him over the edge was a liberal-fascist professor who saw a bunch of shotgun shells spill out of the truck he'd just bought. She thought he might go postal. She figured the best way to deal with someone who might go postal was to get him fired from his teaching assistant job over some stupid bullshit like being a couple days late posting the solutions to a quiz. His funding was cut off around the same time he got his eviction notice. Synchronicity. The Universe had spoken. One month till Go Time.
He bought a trailer RV (dealer financed). Upped his credit card limits and maxed them out on bugout gear. He must have got the loan and the credit increases simultaneously, so that the lenders wouldn't see these events on his credit report. The banks might have been complacent anyway, because he had a handful of credit cards that he had been using responsibly for years. They were his contingency plan.
The last thing he did before bugging out was fill the drains in his apartment with expanding foam, and fill the walls with piss and shit that he had been saving up since he got notice. The place needed $30k of renovations after he left. The dealership reported the RV stolen when the first payment didn't show up. The cops stopped him, but he told them it was a civil matter. He was right. He had researched the script in advance.
Rumor has it he bugged out to the desert near Tijuana. He turned the RV into a nightmare of booby traps. The septic tank was a spike pit. He always had a knife within reach. His plan was to make porn, live cheaply and "just ride it all down". No point in building up any kind of stash or life when it could all be stolen at any time. So "just ride it all down" until the end of the world.
The best part of the story is that he had completed enough courses to get a science Masters degree if he had just filled out a form and paid $15. He couldn't even be bothered to do that. Didn't forget- just couldn't be bothered. That's how much confidence he had in the future that the elites have created. The last I heard of him was about 10 years ago. He was a man ahead of his time. Just goes to show that the system can remain irrational for longer than you can wait for shit to hit the fan.
Update: John killed himself after being forced to do gay porn for a few years to make ends meet. He ended up eating all the feces and waste he stuffed in the walls of his former apartment. Karma is strange like that.
The only reason I went to the parties and drank was FOR THE PUSSY!
Funny.
They are desperate to maintain the bubble economies of colleges and universities.
One of the last bastions of Marxism still untouched by reality. The others, unions, Hollywood, music industry and lawyers are all under seige or facing reality.
There are all kinds of new models which dramatically increase the quality and lower the cost of higher education. Small classes are very important for the development of critical thinking skills. The old model does not work! There is a new model that is gaining traction--oplerno.com. Its an open learning organization with global reach! Loans=slavery!
Agreed. But it's just dumb the way they ask the question, there's no one answer. For some people yes, for others no. For some fields yes, for others no. Etc. I know it was worth it for me and the masters degree too, others I know aren't using their degrees at all.
The bad part is the liberal dogma that all of society's complex problems can be solved through more education, just watch what they write about anything from poverty to racism to anything else and they end their speechifying by saying "The key is education!" So they can't admit that throwing more money at it will ever be a waste, and naive young people pay the price in debt slavery. There have to be some rules when you're using other people's money, for their protection and mine.
The bad part is the liberal dogma that all of society's complex problems can be solved through more education, just watch what they write about anything from poverty to racism to anything else and they end their speechifying by saying "The key is education!"
Yep, pretty much. Shared knowledge is the only thing humans have come up with whichis worthwhile. Educating each other on that knowledge (one of the best being scientific method) is the most obvious solution to many problems. Doesn't mean 'traditional' education routes i.e. schools are the only way to do that.
"Payback is a bitch"?!?
Someone help me out here, I am confused. Owe the bank a hundred dollars and that's your problem, owe them a few trillion...
.....And it becomes the government's problem.
Shit, how the hell did it become the government's problem?
Ahhh, privatize gains, socialize losses.
Roll the..................
pods
LawsofPhysics Someone help me out here, I am confused. Owe the bank a hundred dollars and that's your problem, owe them a few trillion...
---
Which one of us solely owes a bank/government a trillion dollars? None. Collectively, yes. But college students are too stupid to gather and lobby. And do we really want another group lobbying the government on the backs of tax payers?
"We show that the value of a college degree remains high, and the average college graduate can recover the costs of attending in less than 20 years."
There are so many bad assumptions just in this one sentence that I don't even know where to start.
So I won't.
I agree. Notice the word 'can' as opposed to 'will'
Exactly, no real numbers behind the statement. Ergo, they already know the statement is false.
Well their data and assumptions on jobs is incorrect and misleading... so how can any assumption based off that be valid? All they do is pile bullshit on top of bullshit.
Yes, well, thats the kind of assumptions one gets when the BLS statisics are treated as... ehem... Real.
Not to mention the flippant use there of a mere 20 fucking years!!! Jesus Christ. You may as well buy a house for the same price, get a job, supplement the rental income to pay it off over 20 years and then live off the rental income without having to work at all. Or:
Thousands of people get their degrees through correspondence universities; degrees that are well-esteemed. So if some numbnut wants to take on a mountian of debt because s/he is too lazy to work while s/he studies...go ahead. No sympathy from me.
heheheheeheehheeheh
No.
As an engineer over 40....shit sucks....be an engineer(out of collage) and be good at it....It won't suck so much
I own my house and drink alot of beer
I will say this....if you travel....don't get marri.....never mind
I love my family. But the cost of a wife and kids has destroyed the american family. people aren't getting married or having kids any more. I blame the government and bankers, lobbyists, university presidents and well fair recipients.
engineering pays ok. it's better to be one of the names above. They all live off the tax payer, and retire early to exclusive golf communities.
Oh Deep Thought! We have traveled long... and far. Have you calculated the ultimate question? [/Zaphod]
i know, i know, i know. 42. the answer is 42. what was the question again?
Did we expect a different conclusion from the banker class whose main objective is to enslave as much of society as possible with debt?
Don't forget the "college administrator" class in your "racist" attack. If you can't be a politician or banker, you'd better be a college administrator. Geez, yeah, rates went up again. Yeah, it's tough I know, but if you don't go to college, then you'll end up desititute, living in a van by the river.
College goes a long way to securing a good paying job, and the fucking leeches know it. That's why they've raised the price so much. They can get it. And, now they've pushed it so high, that it's better to not go to college. Way to fucking go, univerisities. Instead of creating an educated citizenry that could perpetuate itself and keep you well fed, well, you'll have an EBT-nation in collapse instead.
May colleges go the way of the media. Obsolete. May the internet put them out of business, too.
Borrow as much money as you can.
Party like there's no tomorrow (because there isn't one).
Peak oil.
They can't hide production levels no matter how they spin the headlines and forecasts.
World Production - see chart:
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/global_oil.cfm
It is good to be optimistic.
Being an optimists would mean one realizes peak oil is about diminishing returns in terms of EROEI and then setting oneself up accordingly. Being an optimists is not acting foolishly to see what one wants to see.
Oh God,
Another peak oil nutcase. I think I'll just move on.
Look at my moniker. Now think for a second, might that be sarcasm.
asshat.
peak oil...where were you 5 years ago
Where is the breakdown by course?
Like, income expectation with a double major in Gay Studies and Creative Photography, vs .Electrical Engineering ?
You see, that is willfully misleading. With a degree in GLAAD studies, you can secure a high paying government gig that you don't even need to show up for, and you get rub elbows with every gay celebrity seeking hack, and, probably get government housing and car subsidies to go along with the platinum health care and retirement packages.
Where as, the poor electrical engineering student studied 100 hours a week, makes about $60,000 a year, and hasn't seen a raise in 6 years, but still has to pay his student loans, car payments and mortgage, has been forced on to overpriced obamacare, AND has no money left over to contribute to his own retirement, so he'll work til the day he dies, and the gay hack retires at 45. It pays much better to be a gay hack than an honest hard working white collar schlub.
All imbalances of nature are temporary, so it's only a matter of time before the homo is getting screwed instead.
Kids, take your college loans and put them in the stock market; throw a dart, you can't miss.
/sarc
Be a patriot, take out a loan.
Seven years wasted.
We show that the value of a college degree remains high, and the average college graduate can recover the costs of attending in less than 20 years
Up my FAFSA. Keep grandpa off the street.
Yeah, 20 fucking years. Good luck doing that and paying a mortgage for a home that's selling for 2-3X historical levels because of another bubble.
Outside of STEM, the only thing that makes sense is zero loans, community college, associates degree.
Interviewer: do you have a degree? Answer: yes.
Pick up the rest on the job, you'll know more and be more marketable after graduating with a 2 year AA working your way through school than someone with a 4 year university degree and 100K in loans by far.
Can I get a loan to pay off my loan?
That's what credit cads are for - until you miss a payment and your apr is jacked up to 30%, then you'll be forced to declare bankrupcy and still have to pay back the college loan.
But the Fed only has to pay on interest, kind of a double standard is'nt it?
"Got in a little hometown jam, so they put a rifle in my hands."
Bruce could have easily written this one about the next plan to forgive loans by the government.
pods
Why not? You'd simply be following the good example set by the US gov.
Probably from the IMF. But I think you have to go fight Russians or something like that.
Goal Seeked = Blatant Lying
So many bad assumptions in this analysis, but the the biggest one is that there is self-selection at the beginning between generally high performers (who frequently are told the only logical choice is to go to college) and generally low performers (who barely eek out a HS diploma and have no option to go to college). You can't evaluate the value of college until you correct for this - what are the outcomes for high-performers who had the chops to attend college but either chose alternative education or headed straight into the workforce? What are the outcomes for low performers that still got into a college (think UT first-year open enrollment)?
You correct for that, and I think you'll find college at current tuitions has a negative NPV.
The bad assumptions help to assure the outcome of the analysis that yes, keep taking out loans and keep going to college.
Stupid government always tries to "help" by increasing the demand instead of increasing the supply. The result is massive debt loads.
Think hot babes in short skirts.
Registration not required to approach them, people!
What if instead of paying for college a kid gets an apprenticeship job and earns money instead of paying for college. Is that worth it?
Define "money".
Take it a step further.
Learn a trade, via apprenticeship or simply on-the-job training, then after working for a few years and saving up, go get the college degree if you decide that's what you really want.
Then, if college doesn't work out, you will be debt-free, plus have a trade to fall back on.
To illustrate:
I went to sea when I was 19, took the money I'd earned and applied it to a degree in electronics and computur science.
My best friend went up north, worked as a cook for a year, then applied his savings to a college course in photography.
By the time we arrived in college, we both had enough life experience to understand the value of working hard, setting personal goals and, most of all, being self-reliant.
And here's a fact. Given the choice between someone who went straight to college from high school, and someone who worked their way towards it and is a few years older with a broader outlook on the world, guess who gets the job?
I've been hired several times over people with more education because of that fact. Another bonus - once you've done this, you won't be nearly as apprehensive switching jobs, or even careers, and you may even take the leap into self-employment.
My advise to young people: finish high school (if you can hack it) then go out in the world. Don't rely on mommy and daddy - they'll be there later if you need them, but chances are, you won't. Take on a challenge. Do something difficult, and do it well. After that, the rest will come easy.
PS: if it's a job in a remote location that covers room and board, take it! Those jobs pay well and you'll save money very quickly.
Good advice. I don't know how youth make it these days with being spoiled and babied. I told my kids: BA, BS, be out. Meaning you get your degree, you are on your own...You ain't coming back to live with us even for a day. And I think mine are a little spoiled. Made them pay half of college expenses.
Have you paid attention to what large US multinationals have done the past 30 years in terms of their budgets for human training and investment in their human capital in general?
Not when "College" fees are simply migrating to Wall St portfolios. We all know that it's not the college Operating Expenses (profs, service staff, property maintenance or taxes...) that have mushroomed. But we do know that a whole parasitic and overpaid subset of Office Managers and Directors have climbed on board, and that it's these guys who are sending the Big Bucks to the Big Boys on Wall St.
With more and more people sliding down the food chain, being a sheeple no longer requires an elite education, but "A lead education". They lead, you follow.
Plan of baah accordingly.
Let's not forget about grown men chasing balls and the grown men who have to watch them. Good GOD, the resources wasted on the monkey ball games.
Is it possible to get a freedom of information request on the catering expenses of the 12 Federal Reserve Banks?
The reason I ask is that I recall that the Australians happened to get a pretty detailed list of the wine collection of the Australian Reserve Bank that was used for wining and dining functions by the Reserve Bank staff and their guests from other central banks (and commercial banks etc). As I recall, it caused some outrage in Oz due to the very fine wines that they maintained in their cellar. I also recalled that the Reserve Bank justification was something like "well, we need to have good wines for our guests". True, but not very palatable for the average citizen.
So, why not look at the wine lists of all the Federal Reserve banks via an FOIA request?
Ok, I hate bad wine as much as anybody; it at least has to be of a certain standard so that it's not muck or vinegar, but at the same time doesn't need to be mega wine for central banker soirées that are in theory bank rolled by the Fed. Just some generic Bordeaux would do.
I doubt FOIA would extend to the Federal Reserve.
makes sense to me, if i was a creditor, i'd focus on extending debt that can't be elminated in a bankruptcy. well played gov't. since they own something like 110% of the mortgage market, i wonder how long before they include that debt as debt outside of bankruptcy laws.
Stuck in the 1950s...
How many people slip comfortably into career-type employment by one or more "big companies", stay there earning big bucks for up to 20 years, and then "retire" anymore...?
How many CEO positions are there at such companies?
Twenty year ROI to break even? LOL.
But that was the last twenty years. What about the next? Today's degrees cost more, and today's jobs pay less. Rots of ruck.
The H-1B visa has destroyed compensation for domestic STEM graduates. A freakin' San Jose police officer earns more than most Silicon Valley tech sector engineers, with a mere fraction of the training and overall responsibility. Last time I looked at the post-graduation statistics of schools like Cornell and UC Berkeley in STEM, particularly the IT/Electrical Engienering/Computer Science fields, only 1/3rd of the graduates (probably the foreigners) were even able to find post-graduation employment.
Imagine how much better deal (cheaper) college would be if "they" lowered the cost by eliminating at the worthless politically correct and/or otherwise puff classes.
Imagine how much cheaper colleges would be if they didn't have guaranteed flow of debt slaves enrolling that the current system provides and actually had to compete for hard money.
If you can afford to go to college, as in actually PAY FOR IT, you probably do not need to go. Specialized skills sets are in short supply, and Dunderhead Degrees do not net jobs like they used to. Tech schools and private skills training facilities are going to be the wave of the future in education. Listening to entrenched tenured pricks pontificate gibberish for the sake of 'diversity' is freaking lame.
Example:
Colorado School of Mines
Instate $16,485
Out of State: $32,415
University of Illinois
In: $15,258
Out: $29,640
Purdue
In: $9,992
Out: $28,794
Boston College: Flat rate - $45,622
Standford: Flat Rate - $43,245
Harvard:: Flat Rate - $42,292
At least with the Colorado School of Mines they might find some gold.
Instate? Out of State? WTF is that all about?
Why would any out of state US citizen go to a qualifying state college (all other things being equal) if they can spend the same rate to go to a prestigious Ivy League university?
The average college graduate paying annual tuition of about $20,000 can recoup: Phony analysis here why.
Every major university limits the number of instate students they take so they can charge out-of-state student double the Fed's average rate.
If every major in state university took every in-state student that applied the system would go broke in one years. The state universities make all their money by over charging out of state students.
Next Fed research topic: Does correlation still equal causation?
It is if you are going to graduate with an engineering degree...but for many its just a 7 year party....I used to say Med school too..but after Obamacare you do not want to be a doctor...
Karma bitches!
Next to Russia and China announcing their newfound partnership sans the dollar less than a month ago, now this from Germany!....
Expect shit to hit fan in Eastern Europe with this little care package. Congratulations Germany for finding your spine... Now all you need to do is follow up this announcement that all the American military bases will be closing and the U.S. Army and Airforce leaving for good!
Fuck the EU/USA/NATO!!!
http://investmentwatchblog.com/dollar-death-begins-frankfurt-issues-firs...
Even the most drunk "business" degree student will tell you a 20 year ROI is pathetic.
Answer: NO
It seems to me that the San Fran FED is promoting income inequality; "...leaving college graduates with substantially higher lifetime earnings than their peers with a high school degree."
How un-American of them! Just shocked.
Is that 800 trillion with a T on y axis?
How many of the hated 'top 1%' did NOT go to college. A college education is a pre-requisite for entering the top 1% (with just a few well known exceptions). Of course, if you are happy with achieving the 'middle 50%', then you may not need college. You could apply a similar argument to 'Should I get a job' or 'should I stay on welfare, disability, and long-term unemployment.
And how many college grads get anywhere NEAR the 1%? As opposed to how many end up in debt-hell? A scratch-off lottery ticket has better odds of paying off.
Screw these people and the crap they're selling! Let business train these workers at their own expense if they want certain skills. Why the hell should anyone have to PAY for training that those businesses will render obsolete 2 years after you graduate?
GovCo does everhything it can to trick people into believing in the future - so the bankers can steal their money -
Propaganda
"Ruined my life!" is the phrase that sticks out in my mind from one of my friends who works at a meat packing plant while his wages are garnished for his entire life to pay off a 4 year degree he never completed. Yeah. He's made numerous poor decisions in life like many other young people.... The U.S. College System preys on schmucks like him. Easy money for them. Guys like him are their life blood but they never advertise these people's life stories...Only the guys that land a good job.
Yeah and to add insult to injury, in the statistics he is classified as someone without a college degree who therefore deserves his ruined life and low wages.
Another thing is that the propaganda piece from the SF Fed is 20/20 hindsight. It assumes that the past will exactly mirror the future. Man, is the average clueless herd member going to be in for a surprise.
Wage garnishment for his "entire life"? That seems hard to imagine.
California still hs a thriving porn industry?
Organ donors wanted?
Prison labor is an option?
As long as "the state" is allowed to discriminate in hiring based on a college degree* yes, it is "worth it".
*However if a law were passed which prohibited discrimination in hiring based on accredited college degree and NOT actual applicable job skills a college degree would become worthless.
ie "OK potential hires, here is the skills test for the position you are seeking, highest scorer wins by law"
Americans have allowed the state to create a phony "education toll" for employment, particularly public employment, Americans can refute this policy, but they don't, they seek grants instead.
Did you notice the group they left out?
They compared college graduates to high school grads.
But they left out the ones who go to college using student loans who don't finish. That's 40% of those who start college.
Those folks have the debt, but they don't have the degree.
Those folks are the ones whose lives are ruined financially.
It's tough for them to get high paying jobs, but the loans are there to be repaid.
This was the only relevant comment on here and really gets at the crux of the problem. You have 4-year graduate rates in the US which are moderate overall and at some facilities incredibly poor (below 30%).
Completed issue and the SF Fed paper really didn't do a good job in teezing out the differences and reflecting that in their models. It was just a binary decision (high school vs BA) and misses a lot of the nuance.
If you are going to college full-time, there is no reason it should you more than 4 years and there are way too many people it treat it as a joke. The goal should be to take as many AP classes in high school to eliminate unless entry-level survey courses too. No reason that competitive academic kids don't at least have 8 credits (2 courses) going in.
I'll help pay for my kids college education but not unless they have a clear intended goal, graduate in 4 years (ideally tie to a professional degree and do an accelerated program), and maintain at least a 3.5 overall. It's a job and my payment (tuition/other expenses) should reflect a pretty high-level of expectation given the investment.
I know a lot of people who when to college for a year or two and maybe have an associates degree. They probably did not rack up debt as they don't bitch about it. They have decent incomes.
Travelgirls.com
College is too big to fail. Must be bailed out.
Maybe we should just scrap the whole college business and go to apprenticeships. Businesses can train the people they need at their OWN expense. Then, they will get exactly what they want. After all, doesn't private business do everything better?
Right now we subsidize their payrolls with social programs, we subsidize their businesses with tax breaks. I see no reason to continue subsidizing their employee training. What's next? Do they want us to wipe their asses too?...And, if they actually had to INVEST in their workers, they might not be so quick to chew 'em up and spit 'em out. And at least if they DO the worker walks away with something (training).