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David Einhorn "I Asked Bernanke Questions, And The Answers Were Frightening"

Tyler Durden's picture


Ben Bernanke may be gone from the helm of the world's most centrally planned economy, but his ample cluelessness remains. David Einhorn, president of Greenlight Capital, better known for comparing QE to jelly donuts and who recently confirmed what we have been saying for a long time that the second dotcom bubble is here, spoke with Bloomberg TV covering a wide range of topics, but what caught our attention was his synopsis of a private dinner he had with Chairsatan-emeritus Ben Bernanke, on March 26.

What he found, in his own words, is disturbing.

"I got to ask [Bernanke] all these questions that had been on my mind for a very long period of time, right? And then on the other side, it was like sort of frightening because the answers weren’t any better than I thought that they might be. I asked several things. He started out by explaining that he was 100 percent sure that there’s not going to be hyperinflation. And not that I think that there’s going to be hyperinflation, but it’s like how do you get to 100 percent certainty of anything?"

It goes without saying that only fools are 100% certain of anything, which in fact explains pretty much everything.

So is it too late to cross off the final "conspiracy theory" of the tinfoil hat list: that the entire world is led by clueless Keynesian economist fools, whose adherence to perpetatuing the broken and insolvent status quo means that the only outcome possible after this final, all-in (luckily) bubble finally bursts, is either systemic collapse or world war?  Or do we actually have to live through it before we are proven right once more?

That's ok, we are in no rush.

Curious for more? Here is the full transcript of the key part of the exchange between Bloomberg anchors Schatzker and Ruhle, and Einhorn.

RUHLE: ... you recently had dinner with Ben Bernanke. What went down? We didn’t get to be there.

EINHORN: Well, it was -- I watched him for years in front of Congress and speaking and watched him on TV and “60 Minutes” and --

RUHLE: And what was your opinion of him before you had dinner?

EINHORN: I was -- I’ve been critical. I’ve been critical of him for a very long time. And the dinner for me, in one way it was cathartic because I got to ask him all these questions that had been on my mind for a very long period of time, right? And then on the other side, it was like sort of frightening because the answers weren’t any better than I thought that they might be.

SCHATZKER: What did you ask him?

EINHORN: I asked several things. He started out by explaining that he was 100 percent sure that there’s not going to be hyperinflation. And not that I think that there’s going to be hyperinflation, but it’s like how do you get to 100 percent certainty of anything? Like why can’t you be 99 percent certain and like how do you manage that risk in the last 1 percent? And he says, well, hyperinflations generally occur after wars and that’s not here. And there’s no sign of inflation now and Japan’s done a lot more quantitative easing than we’ve done, and they don’t have it. So if there is a big inflation, the Fed will know what to do. That was kind of the answer.

RUHLE: What did you say?

EINHORN: That was it. Then it went to the next question. So then a few minutes later it came back and I got to ask him about the jelly donuts. And my thesis is that it’s like too much of a good thing. Like lowering rates and quantitative easing and these stimulative things, they help but with a diminishing return. And eventually you go too far and it’s like eating the 35th jelly donut. It just doesn’t help you. It actually slows you down and makes you feel bad. And my feeling has been that by having rates at zero for a very, very long time the harm that we’re doing to savers outweighs the benefits that might be seen elsewhere in the economy. So I got to ask him about this.

SCHATZKER: Okay, and what did he say?

EINHORN: Well first of all he says, you’re wrong. That was good. And then he said the reason is if you raise interest rates for savers, somebody has to pay that interest. So you don’t create any value in the economy because for every saver there has to be a borrower.

And what I came back to him was I said, but wait a minute. You said for a long time we haven’t had enough fiscal stimulus, and who’s on the other side of the low interest trade? It’s the government. And so if the government -- if we raise the rates, the government would have to pay more money to savers. You’d have the bigger deficits. You’d create the stimulus, the fiscal stimulus that you’ve been complaining that Congress wouldn’t give to you, right? And savers would benefit from the higher rates and because savings is spent at a very high rate in terms of interest -- interest income on savings is spent at a high percentage, you’d get a real flow through into the economy.

SCHATZKER: One of the questions you’ve raised about quantitative easing in one of your letters to investors was about inequality. Did you get any satisfaction from Ben Bernanke on the question of whether quantitative easing exacerbates inequality?

EINHORN: Yeah, that did come up and I don’t remember exactly what he said. So I don’t want to --

SCHATZKER: It wasn’t memorable.


SCHATZKER: How about this notion that Warren Buffett has propagated that the Fed has become with its $4 trillion balance sheet the greatest hedge fund in history?

EINHORN: Yeah. I’m not sure that’s meant as a compliment.

SCHATZKER: But did that issue come up?

EINHORN: Yeah. There were people who were asking, yes, and he says the Fed can manage their way out of it when the time comes.

SCHATZKER: But in a persuasive way? Did he convince anyone?

RUHLE: Or did he say Janet’s problem now, not mine? I’ll have another drink.

EINHORN: He was very supportive of Janet.

SCHATZKER: No doubt.

RUHLE: Are you?

EINHORN: I want to keep an open mind here. I saw her speak at the Economics Club a couple weeks ago and I was impressed by her speech. I thought -- she said, look, we have a base expectation, but things change. And when things change, we’re going to change our policy. I thought that was good. She’s -- I don’t look at one economic factor to drive things. I’m going to look at all of the factors. I thought that was good. I think the way she’s approaching problems at least conceptually is very good. I’d love to see if she has a better reason why rates should remain at zero at this stage in the economy, but you take these things and see where she goes. She’s just gotten started.

* * *

Yes. She "just" has. And yes, Bernanke's problems are now her problems.


Full Bloomberg TV interview below:


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Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:42 | 4733125 alphamentalist
alphamentalist's picture

when bernanke is imprisoned, how many smokes will his cellmate rent him out for?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:45 | 4733141 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Take a listen to the LIAR here:


As far as liars go, he's pretty bad.  He can't stop jittering, shaking, and squirming.  Then he pulls the whole "I feel just like you and am totally mad at the banks".  Lmao.... he's a clown.


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:46 | 4733152 PRO.223
PRO.223's picture

"How can anyone be 100% sure of anything?"

When they're trying to fool you.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:47 | 4733163 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Why would a jew try to fool me?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:49 | 4733175 PRO.223
PRO.223's picture

Perhaps I should have said "fleece" you.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:56 | 4733224 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture



I'm 100% certain everyone dies.


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:12 | 4733312 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Finkle is Einhorn!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:41 | 4733443 piliage
piliage's picture

ROFL for the obscure reference of the day!

But, are you 100% certain?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:59 | 4733537 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Davey aint got his fill of full yet and now needs to spill it on us.

Oh yea, F*CK U bernanke!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:44 | 4733719 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Greenspan, Bernanke, Geithner, Yellen, Einhorn....

Trust the experts.  Don't believe your lying eyes.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:57 | 4733784 Arius
Arius's picture

Glad to hear he likes Hellen or Ellen not quite sure now what is her name ... the new chair FED ... at least we are in good hands, forget about the past ... yeah there were some problems but that is history now

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:25 | 4733870 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

A guy in his position who still claims that the Fed chair actually makes policy is either a fool or a liar.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 19:31 | 4734077 Arius
Arius's picture

cant be a fool and make billions ... others will take it from you.


thats doesnt mean i agree with your statements about the Fed chair though ... nothing personal

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:17 | 4734204 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Just stating the facts. Carroll Quigley probably said it best. To paraphrase, the chair of the Fed (and the other central banks) is an agent of the owners of the bank. You do know who owns the Fed, don't you?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:36 | 4734272 Arius
Arius's picture

We the PEOPLE who else?

is Federal isnt it?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 21:03 | 4734356 weburke
weburke's picture

those in most other countries should not take comfort in berns remarks. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 22:42 | 4734681 markmotive
markmotive's picture
Peter Schiff: The Fed knows this bubble is too Big to Pop

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 07:37 | 4735292 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Einhorn is Finkle!

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 12:17 | 4736355 Mister Ponzi
Mister Ponzi's picture

Sure, hyperinflation happens only after wars. I mean, the big war Zimbabwe was fighting with Venezuela...

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 21:15 | 4734403 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Seriously? Jesus.

I'm going to assume you're serious. No, the Fed is not Federal. It is a privately held corporation.

These are the stockholders:

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 23:35 | 4734831 Zero guest
Zero guest's picture

Wrong! The member banks own the Fed.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 01:13 | 4734960 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture


"Are you going to tell everyone what's going to happen?"




"Why the fuck NOT?"


"You really DON'T want to know, so don't ask."


"Are you trying to scare us, or is 'what's going to happen' going to be bad?"




"Is this some kind of movie script or something? I mean, you sound like fucking SATAN!" (laughs nervously, showing off his youthfulness in the presence of those who are millenia older than him)


"Have you ever heard the phrase 'Drink The Koolaid', and do you know where Guayana is; and have you ever heard of the C.I.A. 'useless eater' named 'Jim Jones'?"


"Well, I've heard the expression 'drinking the koolaid', and the people that do it are stupid, I suppose. The democrats and the republicans talk about it on the televisions. WHAT were the other two questions?" (looks increduously at the panel of 'experts')


"GOOD. Now, we're getting somewhere. You really don't know about Jim Jones?"


"Who?" (shakes head, trying to clear his mind of the cobwebs)


"See, you don't know stuff. Let US tell you about the way things REALLY are. You'll believe US, of course, dear boy."


"Will I be scared?" (cowering before his new master)


"Of COURSE not. LISTEN..."


Satan, laughing, spreads his wings:

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 19:52 | 4734131 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Trust the experts.  Don't believe your lying eyes.

Real Eyes


Real Lies

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:22 | 4734223 old naughty
old naughty's picture

I am 100% certain I am not certain if he played us or him, his "eyewitness".

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:54 | 4733512 Jugdish787
Jugdish787's picture

I was about to put the same thing...fucking hysterical!


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:20 | 4733629 Mad_max
Mad_max's picture

alllllll  riiiiighty then!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:08 | 4733822 fishmonger
fishmonger's picture

Einhorn is Finkle!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:59 | 4734341 10mm
10mm's picture

WW3 will not get new fodder. Just won't hsppen. Remaining fodder for sure.


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 23:49 | 4734862 813kml
813kml's picture

Thanks for the link, after a few clicks I ran across a Russian astrologer who in 2011 predicted that trouble would start in Ukraine shortly after the Sochi Olympics.  The same astrologer also predicted that Obama will be assassinated and WWIII will commence shortly afterwards.  That would be the mother of all false flags, something I hadn't considered but is definitely in the realm of possibility for the Banksters to get their war on.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 08:20 | 4735354 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

"Astrologer"?  Do you have any idea how crazy this makes you sound?

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 02:00 | 4735051 q99x2
q99x2's picture

This isn't going to be a World War. It is the oligarchs and their mercenaries committing suicide.

They can't handle rejection.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 06:54 | 4735248 svayambhu108
svayambhu108's picture

Best perspective, love it, spending their pension money

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:00 | 4733245 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I'm 100% sure Bernanke smells of sulfur.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:14 | 4733321 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

If I had had dinner with Ben, I believe I would have had more to say than this....

Pretty disappointing - nothing here, really.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:25 | 4733368 gafgroocK
gafgroocK's picture




If you picked up the Check, would you get any Desert?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:47 | 4733478 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Why? I'm sure Ben made a call and had the check amount due printed.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 21:50 | 4734487 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Einhorn's been Flimflamed by an expert. He was like just asking questions, like, that he got no reasonable answers to and he was like just perplexed. Like what are you, a 16 year old kid?

So, there wasn't a hint of hyper-inflation in Bernanke's world but then he doesn't have to worry about the 20%+ inflation of the money supply, particularly when it comes to placing food on the table, now does he David? Why didn't you question him on why there is a targeted inflation as policy by the CB and ask him how that (on a miserable CPI metric) affects the savers of the world using earned currency as savings?

Why didn't he ask him why they stopped publishing M3?

Why didn't he ask him if he was 100% certain the value of the currency will not depreciate over time?

Why didn't he ask him; If the Fed is able to withdraw from its balance sheet dilemma, then why did the Fed have to increase it in the first place, if they are oh so clever in managing their mandate (with 100% surety over the last 100 years)? The answer that would have satisified Einhorn would be that it was the market's fault or some such rubbish.

It sounds as though David was too kind, too polite or too fearful not to press the matter over dinner. 

Why didn't he ask him what the consequences were to savers and capital, with a Zero Rate policy, when the Fed can mandate to create quantitively endless quantities of currency that competes with the money locked up in a savings account or capital investment vehicle?

Why didn't he ask him why savers demand an interest rate of return on investments such as savings accounts and why savers have to accept the Fed dictated monopoly on interest rates as a return on investment. Why can't the saver rate the individual bank on its balance sheet performance and demand a return on that? Doesn't performance and risk play a part in this if a saver is now an unsecured creditor rather than a saver?

Did you ask him why he thought that the banks were the natural stimulator of the market (through extended credit, not capital or savings) and not the savers who actually had something to loan?

Einhorn wants to keep an open mind on the ability of the next flimflammer-in-control, so that he can deduce if the skittle-shitting unicorn called the Fed, can pull itself up by its own boot laces.

Wake the fuck up, Einhorn or fuck off out of it. You are wasting people's time or are getting too comfortable with the establishment and their cherished invitations to dinner.


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 23:35 | 4734830 dryam
dryam's picture

I will not be too critical of your post because I share your emotional outrage towards Bernanke. However, Einhorn had to behave in an unassuming manner or otherwise he wouldn't have gotten anything from Bernanke. It's better to play stupid and passive & see what may or may not be said. I think Bernanke's (non)answers were very revealing. Had the questioning been aggressive in the least bit the faucet would have shut off completely & Einhorn would never get a second chance.

Btw, I liked the part about war being one of the situations were there can be hyperinflation. Russia is poking the US & China is poking away at Japan & now Vietnam all while Russia & China are solidifying their alliances on nearly a daily basis.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 00:35 | 4734884 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

My outrage isn't so much a measure of Bernanke's role in this, he's just a minion and Quisling (based on his earlier publications about gold as real money and a safeguard for one's stored production against theft through inflation). No, my outrage is directed against the Fed and their crony conmen accomplices in Congress. My outrage is usually restrained to posts such as my previous. However, don't you think it's past the time that we quiver in our boots in fear of these conmen and start treating them with the disdain that they deserve? Everyone?

It's a matter of servitude. You either tug your forelock and mumble platitudes or speak out and destroy their assumed credibility. Einhorn is in a position to do so and it's his duty to do so, if he is American or honorable.

How many wars do we need to fight for them? How many men, women and children have to die or suffer for them in order to satisify their sociopathic desires? How much of our wealth and sovereignty do we have stripped before we say, enough? Bundy stood up! It's time for these paper pushers or paper chasers to do the same. 

Rise up! It was good enough for the founding fathers. The same situation exists now.

Oh, as a measure of my outrag; I was remiss in my previous posting; Fuck you, Bernanke, you Quisling traitor, bought and paid for slut. Invite me to dinner sometime, you lower than shark shit, bottom dweller and I'll ask you a few questions.

I'll reserve my outpourings for congress and the Fed (The Cabal), or I'll be here all day.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:17 | 4733334 raeb
raeb's picture

yes, but are you 100% certain of what happens after that?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:43 | 4733461 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I'm 100% certain everyone dies.


To be technical, Enoch was translated by GOD and did not die. 

Genesis 5:24 Hebrews 11:5


See? There are always exceptions!


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:24 | 4733644 Memedada
Memedada's picture

I'm very close to 100% sure that that's not a reliable source...

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:46 | 4733728 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I'm 100% sure there's a 99.9% probability all religions are fictional. The holdout .1% is for the mormons, please dear gawd let that one be true. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 21:05 | 4734369 10mm
10mm's picture

Mormans. Right.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:15 | 4736066 ATM
ATM's picture

I am 100% sure that I have had a conversation with a dead person and that someone else had a conversation with that same dead person and was told the same thing. Perhpas that'ss not "religion" but I know for a fact there is an afterlife. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:22 | 4733631 Memedada
Memedada's picture

How can you be so sure? Maybe, in the end, we're just walking up...

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 05:52 | 4735186 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

and maybe we're just waking to the realization that we're allready dead, like boiled frogs


what's more hellish than being there, languishing slowly and simply not knowing it?



Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:28 | 4733665 PartofOne
PartofOne's picture

If you view yourself as an individual cell, then yes you will die (physically).  If you view yourself as part of a continuum (i.e. cell of a body) doing your part to ensure the survival of the host/body/universe of that which came before you - you will be immortal (spiritually).

Once you die (mentally), you are truly happy (physically, mentally, & spiritually).  If you are fortunate and know the signs to look for, you may run across some of these people as they are usually quiet and often seen with smiles on their faces.

Learn to feed both wolves; you will never know which one you will need. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:11 | 4733832 PiratePiggy
PiratePiggy's picture

"I'm 100% certain everyone dies."


That was before Obamacare.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:29 | 4733891 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

My Doc told me I had six months to live. I do not have health care and I told him I could not pay his bill.


He gave me 18 more months.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 19:49 | 4734123 Landrew
Landrew's picture

I take you have never heard of cryogenics. They are not dead, but they may never live as they were, I think of the FED in that way.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 21:08 | 4734374 StillSilence
StillSilence's picture

"I'm 100% certain that everyone dies"

I wouldn't really dispute the premise, however only those that have died have actually died.. Everyone that is still living 'has a chance.'....I'm just saying technically even this isn't 100%.

This doesn't really include the possibility of multiple lives, either, which could add a few layers to the idea of what death even is to begin with.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:51 | 4733183 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



This is going to be a very fun thread.  Gold, CA$H, BTC and other preps as defense against the liars!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:00 | 4733252 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Not bitcoin!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:06 | 4733282 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Everyone is entitled to my opinion, Mr. Glow!  


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:13 | 4733319 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

And the great thing about finance is we have data to back us up and we will see what bitcoin does when finance shits the bed over the next few months.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:57 | 4733530 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Ok mr Soul Glow with the pink pony in your avatar. I'll take you seriously.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:41 | 4733708 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I believe "Brony" is the preferred nomenclature.

Hipsters and urban-ethnos are very creative so it's a challenge to keep up.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:32 | 4733895 EggSlayer
EggSlayer's picture

Brony, incredible. Tough indeed.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:00 | 4734154 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Ok mr Soul Glow with the pink pony in your avatar. I'll take you seriously.

How can you take someone seriously when their avatar is a pink horse with a dildo on its head? Oh, wait, mine is a guy with his head up his ass . . . . . (it's actually a Bernake selfie)

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 04:33 | 4735160 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~"there’s no sign of inflation now and Japan’s done a lot more quantitative easing than we’ve done, and they don’t have it."~

How seriously can you take someone with an attitude like that? That's like saying things are "going swell" as you, on the way down, sail past the second floor after having jumped out of the penthouse. Since when has past performance been the indicator for future activity? Ben Bernanke, you sir, are a Keynesian asshat. BTW, nice hat, Dickweed.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:35 | 4733412 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

he said the reason is if you raise interest rates for savers, somebody has to pay that interest. So you don’t create any value in the economy...
Worked hard all your life? Played by the rules? Saved for your retirement, for a rainy day, for your kids, for your legacy?

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH YOU SUCKER, YOU! .gov says SOMEONE needs a good solid fucking to keep the Ponzi going, and hey, turns out it's you!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:49 | 4733490 piliage
piliage's picture

Savers? Saving is for wimps. We don't need no stinking savers.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:28 | 4733887 saltedGold
saltedGold's picture

That's right!  Saving is stupid... you need to put your money to WORK in the market!  Get that easy 8-10% gain a year!!  At least that's what the people on TV tell me.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:03 | 4734164 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

If it's on TeeVee it has to be 100% true, right?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:50 | 4733744 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

On the other hand, those with access to the Fed window create value everywhere they go.

Like vampire bat guano.

Buy some today!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:41 | 4733448 Babaloo
Babaloo's picture

"Why would a jew try to fool me?"

Which one, Bernanke or Einhorn?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:21 | 4733864 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

+1000.  Jews interviewing Jews.  Sorta like NPR.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:05 | 4734172 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

NPR = No Propaganda, Right?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:23 | 4734228 kicksroute66
kicksroute66's picture

Fuck you

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:53 | 4734317 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Its a trick, we always do it.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:50 | 4733179 Jena
Jena's picture

Or when they're trying to sell you something.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:52 | 4733190 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:51 | 4733187 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Thank you Bernanke, for making the elder generation poor.

You only helped the banks, bankers and FED........nothing more.........nothing less.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:54 | 4733207 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

He was just flattening the poverty curve. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:00 | 4733253 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is fascinating. Einhorn pushed back and said that if we raise rates then government has to pay more money to savers, creating bigger deficits, creating the fiscal stimulus that congress won't approve, and we would get a flow through into the economy.

I think that statement deserves it's own thread. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:12 | 4733587 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Savers dont spend much.


If government ran more deficits to pay higher interest rates to savers it would slow money velocity.


Instead we run deficits to give people money who will spend like there is no tomorow......people like the FSA and the MIC, but I repeat myself.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:33 | 4733617 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

it's an interesting concept if I understand it right. I mean we had higher rates in the 80's and 90's and people spent their asses off. At the same time most of that was on a debt binge. But at this point higher savings interest rates almost seems similar to printing money and handing it out. If someone had 100k and you paid them 5% in their savings, I bet the majority of people take that interest and go on vacation or fix up the house. As long as we can borrow at 0% in perpetuity to fund it we should be okay. So basically Einhorn is saying that debt does not matter. So he is knocking the bernak for low rates, but we are all good with the debt.

edit - on the flip side of this, if savings were paying much higher rates, how much money would come flooding out of the market to go into it. How many people are in the market right now because they have to be (dividends) instead of wanting to be. I'd love to see how this would affect these "value" oriented div payng mega caps. That is why I think this will never happen, and Einhorn is nuts for thinking it could. SPY or bust baby!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:43 | 4733714 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

What he is saying is that it is long past time to normalize interest rates and the longer the Fed waits the harder it will be to not see major disruptions. I don't think he as worried about the total debt load as he should be because there always seems to be a buyer right now. My question is whom in the heck in Belgium believes these interest rates stay low when the Fed exits.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:00 | 4733740 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

the fed is exiting and there is massive demand still. I don't think that is the issue. I do wonder if they will separate interest rates at some point. UST's obviously with low yields forever so we can borrow into infinity. Higher yields for everything else.

EA assuming that is not you with the junk, I wish the vagina who threw it out there would speak up.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:14 | 4733844 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

"If someone had 100k and you paid them 5% in their savings, I bet the majority of people take that interest and go on vacation or fix up the house."


Because they are elderly.

That money will be held for inheritance.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:19 | 4733857 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I manage money for the 60 and up crowd. They don't do the inheritance thing anymore. They all go with the "I want to see them get the enjoyment of this money now" line. Maybe they feel bad deep down because they know their generation really screwed the next one. Maybe they are scared, knowing they will need these kids to take care of them. I don't know. But I am pretty sure that 1) you are right, the only crowd with 100k to begin with is the elderly, and 2) that money won't just accumulate. It will be spent, or gifted and spent. 

The only question is what interest rate to give. Too low and you don't accomplish anything. Too high and money comes flooding out of the markets after it.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:22 | 4733866 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

If Rates go up...

Holders of new /rollover debt would have to pay their way and savers would be rewarded for thrift. Many would exit the risk market and overblown valuations would tumble.

Wall St. & Fed gov. lose and Main st. wins. Sort of. Velocity disappears and values of everything plummets to reality. Lotsa blood everywhere, but mostly at the top.

So that ain't gonna happen.

Bifurcated interest rates seem the likeliest attempt to stave off the inevitable.

This concept might need more thought before dashing off a glib top o the head view but hey... talk is still cheap.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:29 | 4733888 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

yeah I am with you. Someone else put the bifurcated rates idea in my head. I think that person may have that right. But you said. Money will exit the market. It's just a matter of if they can manage a controlled demolition. I don't think they can.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:24 | 4733871 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Ah yes, "Belgium". Well, they saved all their lunch money and sold a really lot of waffles. or maybe not.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 04:49 | 4735169 motorollin
motorollin's picture

That bullshit in Belgium has to be 100% dog and pony politics. No one is that fucking stupid.

NATO = Never Another T-Bill Outrage

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:15 | 4733602 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Agreed, that is the bailout that would have happened if the FED were not owned and part of the Banksters

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:16 | 4733616 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

That was pretty brilliant.  Add to this that, people who make more cash on their savings tend to spend more cash, which boosts the multiplier. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:34 | 4733672 booboo
booboo's picture

I would give the ass hat at least a small amount of credit if he presided over the unwinding of the bad banks, bad loans, bad credit but this tells me that ANY unwinding will cause the coiled spring to come flyng out of the watch and second I don't believe for a second that Einhorn don't fucking remember what his answer was to his question about printing only benifiting the connected, afterall everyone sitting around slurping on their matzoball soup is connected else they would be in the kitchen slicing the smoked salmon.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:58 | 4733234 bonin006
bonin006's picture

I am not at all impressed by 100%. Back in 1972 McGovern backed Eagleton 1000% (before it changed to 0%)

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:52 | 4733751 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

Now Now.....I am 100% sure that my real money(gold) will be in it's truiest, undiluted form as long as i own it

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:25 | 4733874 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I believe Der Fuherer was 100% sure.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 23:53 | 4734874 rqb1
rqb1's picture

Dude, your the best.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 23:56 | 4734881 ImGumbydmmt
ImGumbydmmt's picture

WB! Image idea, ya know on NCIS how Gibbs is always smacking Dinozzo on the back of the head from something stupid he said or did......

Can we get that image with Bernake instead of Dinozzo?


Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:27 | 4736137 Ariadne
Tue, 05/06/2014 - 22:41 | 4734680 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

100% sure, why of course its settled science, they know exactly what the temperature will be 100 years from now,  only luddite fools would doubt the masters, keynesian and climactic..

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 02:40 | 4735076 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm 100% sure that 99.999% of the population and 95% of ZH readers and writers still don't realize the hypocrisy of being opposed to a "free lunch" and FRB, yet are against ZIRP and all for compound interest.

The explanation for this is simple:  The human animal is a clever monkey, but still a monkey.  IOW: Many/some of us are quite capable of being smart and rational when it comes to flagging the flaws and greed in others, but will happily overlook the same trait in ourselves.

Self-interest and cognitive dissonance are powerful mind-fucks.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:00 | 4733540 VegasBob
VegasBob's picture

To paraphrase Harry Truman's comment about Tricky Dick Nixon:

Bernanke "is a shifty-eyed goddamn liar...talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time and lying out of both sides."

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 12:07 | 4734873 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"Fed has open-ended authority from congress to manage the US money supply any way we see fit with no accountability to the US government, congress, nor anyone else.  So take your questions and shove 'em up your ass.  And you're paying for this right? Good, I'll have another drink."

There.  Now you don't have to waste time watching the video.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:50 | 4733176 Baldershymn
Baldershymn's picture

Depends on his sucktion skills. I´d say he´s worth a few smokes.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:24 | 4733647 Mad_max
Mad_max's picture

gross. Down arrowed for the mental image you sick, sick person.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:41 | 4733444 Puncher75
Puncher75's picture

Ah mannnnn!!!! That is funny!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:53 | 4733506 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

You are so old fasioned. The current medium of exchange in the slammer is cans of tuna fish. (Seriously) At least you can eat it. Try eating worthless paper.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:04 | 4733552 Conax
Conax's picture

Tuna fish.. I guess they won't need nightlights in that prison anymore.


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:18 | 4733614 Mad_max
Mad_max's picture

before I can answer that, I need to ask the following -

Will these smokes be futures contracts?


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:42 | 4733928 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Bernanke, Greenspan, Krugman, a list of douchetards.

Anyone who followed the "argument" awhile back between Steve Keen of Australia, and official douchetard/pseudo-liberal, Krugman, where Krugman displays his abject ignorance of the fractional reserve system, claiming that the banks don't create credit, that they ONLY loan from savings on hand, knows the typical econ who has received some douchebag award from the Swedish Central Bank (no, it's isn't a Nobel Prize, as the Nobel family never endowed nor recognized it) or head of the Fed is a certified idiot/stooge/shill.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:29 | 4734236 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

So you don’t create any value in the economy because for every saver there has to be a borrower.

this banker mentality is worse than I ever suspected.  beyond the pale.  this clown thinks everyone's savings are for him and his pals to leverage ad infinitum. 

I don't care if gold goes to $1/oz.  I will continue to cash out of this madness until either their ponzi scheme folds or death finally finds me.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 05:37 | 4735202 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

ZH Snob - It comes down to the taxpayer paying the federal reserve interest to continue there growth not yours. For you to grow requires reorganization.

No worries, they will tell you when it's time. Yes you and I may be dead by then.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:42 | 4734290 Shrapnel
Shrapnel's picture

Whatever the number, it's too much.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 21:54 | 4734530 oncefired
oncefired's picture

The helicopter man's name is on the list, during the end times he will be taken out never to be heard from again. Prison is to good for him - he would proably enjoy being Leon's bitch!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:46 | 4733142 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Middle class decimated.

Income inequality at records.

Underemployment at records.

Stagnant wage growth.

Home-ownership affordability at lows.

Seems like a liberal's wet dream. What's to be frightening? This is what Americans VOTED FOR. Free government wealth.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:47 | 4733160 Baldershymn
Baldershymn's picture

I dont remember voting over wheter we should vote over things.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:02 | 4733259 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I remember Diebold rigging elections, and I remember Bush signing TARP.  

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:49 | 4733737 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I remember tarp was sold to the public as a way to cover the losses incurred by the banks and AIG's and then after it passed tarp became whatever the hell they wanted to do with it.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:44 | 4733939 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Exactly!  And MetLife, an insurance company, became an overnight bank holding company to access those TARP funds, and a director there was just appointed to head HHS.


Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:47 | 4733161 localsavage
localsavage's picture

Too bad that those voters are either too stupid ot too uninformed to even realize what he was all about.  Free phones bitches...

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:19 | 4733351 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Obama was more about 'No more Bush' - unfortunately we got more of the same in everything that really matters.  Political parties provide the ILLUSION of choice.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:48 | 4733168 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

no, libs want a utopia but we all must be slaves to their system.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:56 | 4733220 seek
seek's picture

This is what the vote was rigged for, not what america voted for.

Let's be absolutely clear, the majority of americans did not consent to what's about to happen.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:58 | 4733229 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

CNBC has started every segment today off with the word bubble. It's as if they are making sure they have their own "peter schiff was right" highlight reel on the shelf ready to go when shit goes down.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:00 | 4733250 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes and yes.  CNBC wants to cover their asses.  

Correct, seek, what is happening was not advertised as such.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:14 | 4733323 resurger
resurger's picture

Fuck this global tptb Illuminati mother fuckers. Fuck them hard, if hell was fucking pierced by a needle anybody in those 7 fucking heavens would burn to death. 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 18:47 | 4733949 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

A vote for Jeb or a vote for Hillary is a vote for Wall Street, the sooner Ameritards, or American Sheepletards wake up and realize this, the better.

Obama did exactly what Romney would have done:  pushed the drone program together with the Internet ID program, so in short order they can target the drones directly by IP address.

Nothing mysterious about any of this bullcrap, except what Ameritards still subscribe to the political theater of multiple parters when there's only one:

The Bankster Party

Vote Green or don't be seen!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:41 | 4733447 All_Your_Base
All_Your_Base's picture

The obliterated middle class wishes it had only been decimated.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:14 | 4734192 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

This is what Americans VOTED FOR . . . .

Voting and "democracy" as a way of changing the status quo in the USA is a complete myth - deal with it . . . . unitl we separate money from the political system in this country we are fucked and the fuckerie is getting harder and faster as time goes by.  This country's political system is fascist to the core and has been for decades.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:46 | 4733153 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

Words fail me

In Landmark Decision, Supreme Court Strikes Down Main Reason Country Was Started : The New Yorker

The separation of church and state has been a cornerstone of American democracy for over two hundred years

Beep! WRONG!!!!!! These idiots don't even know we are a Constitutional REPUBLIC!

Democracy's always fail, look at history, and this one will fail just as miserable

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:51 | 4733186 clooney_art
clooney_art's picture

Anything man-made will ulltimately crumble and disappear. All artificial constructs will vanish.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:54 | 4733199 sleigher
sleigher's picture

The corporation masquerading as a government in the area known as Washington D.C operates like a democracy.  They were not referring to the original republic and seldom do.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:02 | 4733267 replaceme
replaceme's picture

That was satire, although they were indeed wrong w/ the use of democracy.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:11 | 4733304 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

How many times must it be explained to angsty Americans... In Enlightenment political theory, any state that is not monarchic can be referred to as a republic. The contrary position would seem to suggest monarchies did not have robust legal systems and strong traditions of legalism (going back a thousand years or more). Republics always fail, just like everything else.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 19:15 | 4734035 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I don't hold satire columns to a razor crease inspection.

However the bigger faux-pas is the claim that separation of church and state is a 'cornerstone' of anything much less a chink-stone filler. The claim that it's one of the reasons the country was founded is even more ludicrous.

"Congress shall pass no law..." And they haven't. So say the Supremes and they would be correct.

So if the city council votes to put up a Pagan Christmas tree on the town square or a little baby Jesus and some goats, they can.

The Satanists, until they vote enough of them on the city council, will have to be happy with the goats.

Atheists could put some lights on a big Zero and claim it was a wreath, I suppose.

Zoroastrians could park a Mazda near the square but the parking meter would probably ruin that idea.

Buddhists are easy to please. They don't much give a shit about anything in the material world.

Maybe we can provide some psychiatric care under the ACA (because I'm sure the liberals all bought in ) to treat all the terrorized lefties who worry about such things.

How about a warning sign? "Caution: Viewing traditional holiday displays may cause some anal leakage in some sensitive viewers."

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:24 | 4734230 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

A republic: a nation built on slavery meant to be an empire of conquest
a democracy: the sole system on earth ever to NOT lead to children being murdered & raped in public by those who run an empire.
And you're against democracy?
No question about it. Child murder all day every day. Officers with glee & smashing babies against trees, raping wives, theirs and others.
That's 100% assured with no democracy, especially in an empire republic.
A republic is built on laws - laws that demand utmost slavery and genocide.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:28 | 4734245 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Beep! WRONG!!!!!! These idiots don't even know we are a Constitutional REPUBLIC!

Small correction - the US government was originally designed as a "Constitutionally Limited Republic".  "Limited" is the part that has been thrown in the garbage since about 1871.  The perception that the US is a "democracy" is a complete fallacy and means nothing more than mob rule where the rights of minority groups are not protected.  BTW - by minorty groups I do not necessarily mean groups like blacks, gays, Jews, etc. - minority groups are people with dissenting points of view versus the mainstream viewpoints.  Think the "Occupy" movement for a good example of a minority viewpoint not being protected - what happened there was fascism at its finest.  Constitutional rights?  You have no constitutional rights (spray, club, beat, arrest . . .)!

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:47 | 4733156 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Sounds like Einhorn ran right the hell outta that meeting and bought some Argentenian bonds and GM stock for insurance against unplanned events.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:26 | 4733380 kito
kito's picture

i dont understand why americans havent heeded einhorns warnings about jelly donuts. dunkin donuts always has lines out the door. 

meeehhh. buy stawks.....

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:40 | 4733440 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

you can't ignore down 120 plus on the close. you can't.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 17:09 | 4733575 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I've been trying, but you aren't makin' it easy.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 20:31 | 4734257 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

you can't ignore down 120 plus on the close. you can't.

Specially on Tuesday . . . . don't stawks always go up on Tuesdays? :/s

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 04:55 | 4735179 motorollin
motorollin's picture

You heard it here first. Since we missed the boat on Turnaround Tuesday, we will surely see Face-rip Friday. SPY will close near 188.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:48 | 4733167 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

Gold standard and get the fuck out of the way.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:49 | 4733170 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

EINHORN: Wanna have a three way after we are done? 

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:50 | 4733177 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

They're both assholes. I don't believe a word of it.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:51 | 4733178 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Well, how convenient that Janet is now at the helm she and Bernanke get a hall pass and a clean slate.  Bullshit!

Savers are still punished, malfeasant banks rewarded, the Treasury robbed, and generational debt grown.

Cut the crap people; the FED is a force of evil, period.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 15:56 | 4733223 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Absolutely ebworthen... NOt to mention the uncertainty. Will anyone quit working in this envirnment? What will the ydo next? Convert all your savings to 3% UST?

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:11 | 4733291 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Retire and collect SS, eat cat food, watch TV all day and die.  I think that's everyones plan.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:26 | 4733379 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Retire, NOT collect SS (I am not entitled to it), eat Peruvian food, stay on the Internet all day, that's the plan!  Oh wait, I'm already there!

That dying part comes later I hope.

Tue, 05/06/2014 - 16:27 | 4733385 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

but I don't have TeeVee

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!