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Russia Accuses Kiev Of Committing Genocide Of Russian, Ukrainian People
Russia has made its first official comment following the latest escalations in Ukraine - and they are not peaceful-sounding - "We are dealing with the real genocide of both Russian and Ukrainian people,” said Russian State Duma Speaker Sergei Naryshkin, adding that Russia was shocked by the massacre in Odessa and mourns the victims together with their families. His words went further as he warned the perpetrators "will get what they deserve from their people." The words though, have now been followed up by actions... as RIA reports that Russia’s Black Sea Fleet "will get new submarines and next-generation surface ships", Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Tuesday, voicing his concern at the increasing maritime activity of the US Navy.
Russia's first official response to the escalation in Ukraine and the disaster in Odessa... (via RIA)
The latest episodes of violence in Ukraine constitute a genocide against the Russian and Ukrainian people, Russian State Duma Speaker Sergei Naryshkin said during a Balkan forum Tuesday.
“We are dealing with the real genocide of both Russian and Ukrainian people,” said Naryshkin, commenting on the tragic events in Odessa on May 2, when 46 federalization activists were killed in clashes.
He added that Russia was shocked by the massacre in Odessa and mourns the victims together with their families.
“In the 21st century such things happen not only due to the fault of a bunch of political adventurists – they are not worth much on their own, they will get what they deserve from their people. The main problem is that the horrific truth is being kept from the whole world,” Naryshkin said.
According to the speaker, Kiev’s authorities initially based their policy on civil confrontation. They have now demonstrated their unwillingness to find and punish those responsible for the numerous crimes that have been committed in Ukraine in recent months, he added.
...
The Russian Foreign Ministry called the events a result of the “criminal irresponsibility of the Kiev leadership indulging insolent nationalist radicals, including Right Sector, who are staging a campaign of physical terror against supporters of federalization and real constitutional changes in Ukrainian society."
And then appears to be taking action as The Black Sea Fleet gets reinforcements...
Russia’s Black Sea Fleet headquartered in the Crimea region that recently reunified with Russia will be beefed up with a slew of next-generation warships and submarines, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Tuesday.
“This year, our sea bases will host new air defense and marine regiments,” Shoigu said.
“This year, the Black Sea Fleet will get new submarines and next-generation surface ships, and all of this requires our immediate attention,” the minister said during a conference call.
The general underscored that Russia has always “lent all the necessary forces” to the Black Sea Fleet, but Crimea’s accession to Russia required it to amend the fleet’s development plan.
Russia has recently voiced concern over the increasing maritime activity of the US Navy in the Black Sea after the Pentagon dispatched its frigate USS Taylor to the region together with the command ship USS Mount Whitney.
The clock is ticking and sanctions are doing nothing. The days of diplomacy - it would seem - are long gone - as Lavrov warns...
WOW - Lavrov says Ukrainians who support and who oppose Kiev's "regime" will live in ONE country. pic.twitter.com/a6fCbuXDOd
— Leonid Ragozin (@leonidragozin) May 6, 2014
Those curious what the next event catalyst will be, look no further than May 11, when the Donetsk independence referendum takes place, assured to be a carbon-copy of the Crimean vote.
A sneak preview of the ballot paper for Sunday's referendum on Donetsk's independence pic.twitter.com/2ZiZWuMxQM
— Guy Chazan (@GuyChazan) May 6, 2014
But, as Russia Today just reported, the US has already said it will not recognize the referendum vote just like it did not "recognize" the Crimean vote, even though Russia couldn't give a rat's ass about that (unless, of course, the east votes against independence, which at this point appears unlikely).
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Democracy, Where even in America it don't mean shit.
Victoria Nuland's 178th Airborne Special Forces are ready to roll, locked & loaded with plenty of fava beans & a selection of nice chiantis.
http://portal.ransquawk.com/headlines/shooting-in-ukraine-s-mariupol-as-...
News Headline Summary
Shooting in Ukraine’s Mariupol as self-defense force says Kiev resumes assault
Link > http://on.rt.com/jeck5p
Update details:
- Mariupol is in the south east region of Ukraine.
- The south east region of Ukraine has seen most of the violence between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian forces.
Putin in on a slippery slope here. This is no different materially than the gas-attack claims out of Syria. It winds up in a place no one can really leverage because of all the proxy-war bullshit going on.
Putin has 100k soldiers around ukraine and he is accusing Ucraine of commiting genocyde? Who is so stupid to believe that?
And cut the crap with obama and CIA. Right? is mr. putin who has 100k soldiers and already invaded a foreign country, only because...he did not like the new government.
So, please stop russia today propaganda, we are not the crowd you think we are.
^^^Let's hear it for Victoria Nuland, folks.
fuck the eu
fuck you putin, old bolshevik.
call me victor victoria
The dude you responded to has his head shoved so far up Barroso's ass, Barroso'S balls are at belly-button level.
That being said, I only hope the EU/US/Bankster fuckers get kicked on their heels on this one.
I love the idea of the US, but what the US is right now is far from what it was designed to me.
Seeing those burned bodies the other day was dreadful, but this is not nearly approaching the level of a "genocide."
It was odd the whole building didn't go up. Just the areas where the people were. At least from the video I saw. Lots of material in there that would have gone up too.
Could have shot them and burned them afterwords.
Not genocide though, let's be honest.
pods
Agreed. Genocide? No. Genocide -- complete propaganda.
Cold blooded murder. Yeup.
I watched the liveleak video the other night and was thinking about it in bed. Of course it first made me a bit sad to be in my comfortable bed and others were charred where they huddled in a war torn country that mine played a big part of.
I saw the pics of the building from the outside and it seemed that the inside was nowhere near as burned as it looked. Where the people were it was, and they were definitely hit with some flammable, but there were rooms after rooms piled high with cardboard and zero fire damage.
Looked almost like the people were shot and burned or even worse, cornered and burned.
I saw no bodies that were not burned, which I thought was odd. I only saw a small number though. Maybe they overlooked them. They were by broken windows, so they could have been hit with incoming Molotovs, idk.
Sucks either way.
pods
Directly and indirectly, the US leads the world in killing people in the last 50 years.
The Ugly American have become the Evil Ugly American.
Somebody liked this the other day when it happened. It makes me sick and sicker still that these people are not being Perseus to the ends of the earth. At least not yet.
http://spirituschristi.livejournal.com/307289.html
Sick fucking shit right there.
There was a video which showed flames commencing on the third floor BEFORE the window to that room was broken.
There was also a report from a protestor inside the building who stated he was helping two women move a metal safe to block a doorway when they were torched by accelerant from putschists inside the building.
There are other reports suggesting the entire event was orchestrated by Kiev with the active participation of the coup administration. You can view the report at the URL below:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/05/crucial-investigation-into-role-of.html
unfortunately, the chance of... dreadful payback approaches 100%.
Which is exactly the result desired by the ziocon spooks.
That's exactly what it looks like:
http://ersieesist.livejournal.com/813.html
Maybe not, but I'd like to know what number qualifies a genocide. Anyone?
I think with genocide intent plays a role. This was strictly one mob was bigger than the other mob.
This is basically what America is going to look like if the dollar dies suddenly.
pods
The site I linked above makes a very compelling case that it was pre meditated murder. Too many details for it to be just an event caused due to escalation.
As to your point that this is the US after the collapse of the dollar, I couldn't agree more. The FSA will become a monster.
Yeah, from what I saw in that link it definitely was a corner and slaughter situation. Sick shit.
Genocide happens one day at a time. Ask the American indians.
Thresholds vary depending upon the perpetrator and method of the mass killings. When Saddam gassed Kurds, it was genocide. When US sanctions resulted in the deaths of half a million Iraqi children, it was collateral damage.
It's good to be the king.
You meant UN sanctions, right?
A distinction without a difference. Most of the world is America's bitch.
When US sanctions resulted in the deaths of half a million Iraqi children
US use of Depleted Uranium ammunition (DU) has contaminated large urban areas of Iraq. The outcome is a very high level of birth defects including stillborn children. Given the half life of DU is is likely the death toll will continue to increase through the decades to come.
As is common with crtically important stories this never makes it to the western MSM who devote their time to the crash of Justin Bieber or the latest antics of Flight MH370.
And the bitch plays on . . .
"It's for the children" takes on a whole new meaning.
Sanction means to stop a country from using US dollar for trade forcing them not to be able to buy or sell because US dollar is used for global exchange. So whoever gives the order to sanction, be it the UN, the US still does the implementation of sanction because only the US supplies the US dollar.
Strangling a 9-month pregnant women to death with telephone wire, depicting Russians as insects to be crushed, and setting a building on fire and shooting people trying to escape, are genocide.
Tymenshenko's stated intent to Nuke the inhabitants of Eastern Ukraine exhibits genocidal intent.
Various putschist statements regarding the eradication of a linguistic minority also qualifies as encouraging genocide. This is what took place in the Ruwanda genocide in which the state encouraged the killing of a minority population.
Ukraines actions in cutting off supplies of fuel and food to Eastern Ukraine constitutes an action which threatens the life of a specific minority population.
Turning a blind eye to these events constitutes acceptance and endorsement of these actions.
Making a $17 billion loan payment contingent on undertaking military action against one sector of the population can be considered as encouraging genocide.
One act no matter how terrible is not genocide, unless that act was large enough to be considered an attempt to wipe out a people. Like a nuke launched to wipe out a people.
Strangling a woman who is pregnant is called murder.
Shooting people is called murder.
A poster of bugs and a broom is called propaganda.
Systematically finding and killing a people is genocide.
Let's see if we can definitions at least correct.
pods
The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.
Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide:
1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and
2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide."
Article III described five punishable forms of the crime of genocide: genocide; conspiracy, incitement, attempt and complicity.
Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and
Punishment of Genocide:
"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide. "
It is a crime to plan or incite genocide, even before killing starts, and to aid or abet genocide: Criminal acts include conspiracy, direct and public incitement, attempts to commit genocide, and complicity in genocide.
Punishable Acts The following are genocidal acts when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group’s existence:
Killing members of the group includes direct killing and actions causing death.
Causing serious bodily or mental harm includes inflicting trauma on members of the group through widespread torture, rape, sexual violence, forced or coerced use of drugs, and mutilation.
Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.
Prevention of births includes involuntary sterilization, forced abortion, prohibition of marriage, and long-term separation of men and women intended to prevent procreation.
Forcible transfer of children may be imposed by direct force or by fear of violence, duress, detention, psychological oppression or other methods of coercion. The Convention on the Rights of the Child defines children as persons under the age of 18 years.
Genocidal acts need not kill or cause the death of members of a group. Causing serious bodily or mental harm, prevention of births and transfer of children are acts of genocide when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group’s existence.
The law protects four groups - national, ethnical, racial or religious groups.
so it would seem that the policy of the u.s., nato and the kiev government is arguably genocidal. apparently it's easier to qualify for this than is widely thought. israeli policy in palestine seems easily within this definition, for instance.
the word 'genocide' -- like so many other words -- is, due to overuse, quickly slowly but surely losing its traction. at some point people are like, 'who cares about these meaningless words?'
Fuck em all is the point. All of these "powers" are damn dangerous people playing games with regular people's lives. Anyone really see any core differences here between the players? Aside from the propoganda...
Nuland started this shit. If she hadn't Putin wouldn't have Crimea and Ukraine would be having an election - however manipulated by Diebold - on May 25th. Obviously the West is at fault and Putin is cleaning up after their messy CIA operations.
"Mom! Billy hit me!"
"Why did Billy hit you, Johnny?"
"Because I hit him."
"Well, Billy has every right to kick your ass now, Johnny."
haha
"Anyone really see any core differences here between the players?"
Sure, the US is 90% of the way to establishing a World Government, while Russia is only about 5% of the way.
Once they reach that, they can rid the world of everyone who wants to be free.
That was most stupid post in a long time.....
get lost idiot
I fucking love Putin.
the send him a letter that you wanna lick his ass. not sure if responded.
Not sure if serious. In Mother Russia, ass lick us.
Junk away you fuckers. DO NOT CARE.
Putin's not Mr. Perfect, but as long as he's the Leader of the Free World, we'll just have to make do, until someone better comes along.
Russia knows all about how to commit genocides in this region, so I guess they should know what genocide looks like. Somebody let me know when the body count over there from this exceeds a few dozen per kerfuffle.
Russia? So Russia under Putin has comitted genecide? Please do tell!
Like the genocide Bush Sr. did invading Iraq, and Clinton did bombing Baghdad? And Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq? And Obama in Af/Pak, Iraq, and Libya?
Chechnya.
Putin basicaly leveled Grozny to the ground.
Many died.
Putin has not committed any genocide in the Ukraine, but memories of this one still lingers from the commies under Stalin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
This is serious sh*t not to be taken lightly.
For fuck sakes!!!!! Can we fucking ban every fucking idiot who mentions Stalin, holodomor and other `ancient` shit? WTF everyone keeps repeating this nonsense? What the hell genocide, holodomor, stalin or other shit you people repeat has to do with today, todays RF and Vladimir?
P.S. I cant stand this histerical bulshit anymore. sorry for the fucks. everyone deserves them, if they repeat shit like that.
So should we not mention Truman and his bombs? Wilson and his Great War?
WE? whos that? no you shouldnt. unless you are talking about that time. today you have different psychopats in power, same agenda maybe, same rhythm, but different shit.
the_magician, people alive today have stories from their grandparents when they were young about what went down. You cannot disconnect yourself from recent history. It is personal when some tries to exterminate your people as a whole.
Again, it is a tragedy of immense proportions the US didnt have and use the bombs sooner, when you look at the death rate, the destruction rate, of that war. You have to have a an inverted moral system to think Truman's easy decision there was monstrous somehow.
you lost me at kerfuffle.
They help stop it instead of bitching about you don't like hearing the truth. Ass. If it stops, then you don't have to listen to it anymore. Really fucking simple...jesus h christ.
Too many dumbed down by media propaganda...
it is fact the real Russian ethnic Slav is always the bad guy cos that what they were told...
nevermind the truth..
Another intelectual i see. fuck off now. ZH hates intelectual masturbation. Have you even read about that war? WHEN it started, why and who to blame? Have you heard about that little american prick Yeltsin and his jewish bartenders.No? you dont understand shit. stop mastubating here and fuck off.
Feel free to elaberate about the war then. Ad hom will only make us laugh and some of us are also hear to learn.
This is nt ad hom or whatever you pussy. read some books, connect some dots and use your fucking brains for once. fuck it, forget about it, no use. in fact, what is there to learn i ask you. people are fucked all over the world by a bunch of narcisistic paid sociopaths. the whole history is the same.
why such language? because i had enough. how hard is to understand what is happening around us? off course when you start to masturbate intelectually and wonder why there is suffering in world, thats when i say fuck of, shut up and hide.
I think there may be some brilliance behind the drunk rambling. Come back and play when you dry out. I want to hear what you are saying (coherently).
I'll read up on that one. I'll admit I don't know much about it.
There is a city called Atlanta.
heard of it?
know its history?
You are expert of this subject?
You can explain away outside financed Wahabi feral beasts that terrorized normal Chechen citizens?
Most Chechen support Russia. Now Chechnya is mostly quiet.
no buddy, russia under putin did not commint any genocyde:)))))))))))))))) you know, putin is your hero to free you from allll your troubles...
Do not remember you chechnyans, who were killed in tens of thousands some years ago, under putin's regime, in their own country. Just because thy said NO to russia.
So shut the f up.
Alright, fuck! I get it - all governments are bad.
Russia surrounds an islamotard infected town with artillery and levels it. The US under evil Cheney/Bush-burton regime wastes it's marines going house to house through Falluja, so as to minimize the hurt to noncombattants, as the JAG corps and Geneva conventions like it.
Compare and contrast.
When nuking it from orbit is not an option, there are always thermobarics.
syrian girl said they found traces of enriched (not depleted) uranium at falluja, so there may have been some 'allied' 'nuke shenanigans' there.
You know nothing about these subjects.
Media dumb you down much?
Actually, thanks to Russia and various international Leftists following the conclusion of WWII, "political" was purposefully left out of the the original and official UN definition of genocide. So, racial, ethnic, religious or nationalistic mass killing is a red-flag for genocide but not (if you can sell it as such) politically motivated mass killing.
This view was re-ratified in 2003 when the UN recognized the Ukrainian Holodomor of the 1930s but stopped short of labeling it a genocide. Russia had essentially (and successfully) argued that it was the case that all those Ukrainians died because they were farmers...not that all those farmers died because they were Ukrainians. Cold comfort.
Oops looks like I responded to the wrong post, but here goes anyway:
Putin is Russian and knows Russian history, presumably, including the succession of empires, and Stalin era...shenanigans. Can I say it that way or will you get all butt hurt? (and yeah Stalin was from Georgia...and Hitler from Austria...and Napoleon from Corsica which was more italian than French back then, culturally. All of them elliminated millions on behalf of their visions FOR their adopted nations).
The Holdomor was executed, overwhelmingly, by Jews. The Bolshevik "reovlution" was a Jewish takeover of Russia, financed, overwhelmingly, by Jews in the US and UK.
It has been memory-holed, of course...
but not completely.
For the common lad in Donetsk neither Moscow nor Kiev have any credibility..They want to be respected and live a decent life...
"we are not the crowd you think we are"
Sure you are and you have been found wanting.
Retreat back to the hole you slithered from.
Putin, a KGB Colonel is "shocked" at any kind of violence? Hahahaha! Putin, I assure you he knows where more dead bodies, torture chambers, reeducation camps and gulag prisons are than anyone in the West.
Even if you for some zany reason you favor Putin and the Russian commies you realize this is all theater, right? It is pretext.
One thing is for sure... you're not free, if for some zany reason you believe that.
"Useful idiots" is an old Russian-Soviet term.
How about "useless idiots" ?
Seems to be your case...
I should certainly hope so...useless to the autocrats and their oppressive states which are coming your way. I might even be hostile under the right circumstances.
Funny how the downvotes rack up! lol. This "Putinfest" shit is just unreal.
Neither Putin nor Obama nor Merkel matter -- and no, don't leap forth with talk of who is pulling their strings and some bizarre Jewish this or that.
What matters is oil. Putin, or rather, Russia has it, and everyone else needs it desperately.
The rebuttal . . . yeah, but Putin needs the money for that oil desperately.
If you don't get oil you starve. If Putin doesn't get money, he can still ship food to his people.
This is a one sided affair. Only the folks on the downside of it scream they have clout.
This. War for East Asia and all that. The region itself is incredibly rich in exploitable resources. Russia has the upper hand in domestic resources, and a nice "frenemy" buffer with manufacturing superpower China. The Brits (and their US colony) are clearly behind the eight ball here.
I think you will find that Britain is in effect the "vassal state" of America.
There are no "British" bases in the US, but plenty of US bases in the (former) UK, over which the British had little if any effective control.
Look up "Greenham Common" for an excellent example of "who actually "owns" who"
London-New York. New York-London.
Does it really matter all that much who gets top billing?
Jews are less than 1% of Ukraine, less than 2% of Russia, and less than 2.5% of the US, yet Jewsall over this episode in each of those countries?
You don't think Jews are organized internationally? Do a google search. Henry Ford wrote a book about it decades ago - do you think dismissing it as "anti-Semitic" means it is false? No, champ - it means it is largely true and discussed Jewish power. Not "Zionist" power - Jewish power.
Go fuck yourself with your brainwashed inability to recognize a fucking pattern that is right in front of your eyes.
Part of being honest is - being honest.
no, it is a whole strategy here: infiltrate russian propaganda in such way to show that putin actually fights corrupt banksters and for poor people, but the evil rich west, just does not want to let his people free. oh, oh.
He is a sort of che.:))
sure, Putinfest is just unreal.
I think the KGB/GRU has infiltrated ZH. Even if one thinks the Ukraine uprisings and deposition of the PM was some conspiracy who in their right minds thinks Colonel Putin, KGB is some kind of good guy savior? Who the hell wants to saddle up their horse and join his neo-commie possie?
I always said one of the most dangerous aspects of the Left is that they cannot tell good guys from bad guys. Generally, I meant that guys with rap sheets as long the tax code were thought to be simply misunderstood, underprivelaged, economically abused people who did not get enough government programs. At the same time, self supporting white Christian males who spanked their kids were considered dangerous and not to be trusted.
Now, I realize that along with the new conspiracy class that it is quite impossible for any moral distinction or rational judgement.
Both sides claim indefinite detention of you the subject. Given the situations are equal in reality, I am more comfortable with the side that is most honest about it.
If I hear Barry bleat on about this country being a constitutional democracy again I will be ill.
Lol! I will give you that one. I love when he talks about being a Constitutional scholar (with no know papers).
He is to the Constitution what a hacker is to programming.
The wall has been down for sometime, where you been FG? Someone could have at least scribbled that on the wall of your cave.
Gas yourself you piece of shit. Too bad your mother didn't believe in abortion.
yes we are
yes, you are
mandeea:
You're correct - we are not the crowd you think we are.
We are the crowd that accesses other information outlets than the propaganda-spewing MSM. We are the crowd that sees the Big Picture of international banksters, the War of the Oligarchs, and comprehends the meaning of these interactions.
We are the crowd that knows the psychotic sociopaths in DC and Brussels are sick people, lying about anything and everything. We are the crowd that understands what is meant when a first-tier EU leaders says, "When it gets really bad, you have to lie. . . ." - we are the crowd that knows it's really bad, and they are lying their fanny off.
Please take your IMF/ECB/FED/US/EU/NATO trolling hide somewhere else.
We are the people who know what you are, and want nothing to do with you.
-30-
no, "you are not people". You are just you with your payroll to mix ucraine shit with EU, NATO and so on. What has to do ucraine crap with EU? Was EU invading crimeea? Soldier without marks pretending to be people?
Do you read yourself? give credit to a psihopat like putin, just because you do not like EU?
Then, what do you like? Can you answer that simple question if you pretend to know "what I am"?
most likely no.
"What am I?"
I would guess a fascist tool. But then I am just going by what I read. Let's have a beer sometime and we can noodle out what you are exactly. I am just the kind of monkey to help you out of your identity crisis.
Austrian commentator on Sakar keeps on reporting train loads of tanks transiting east across Austria, markings hidden.
yeah, but no one knows how to drive them and there isnt enough gas to get them through the Ukraine. Putin 1 Rothschilds 0
Primary Ukraine refinery is east of the river. Substantially east of the center of the country.
Crash:
And it's easily taken out by pro-freedom misseles.
-30-
Indeed, and the Brits have a significant need for that refinery to stay upright and in good working order.
isn't it in the geneva conventions that no one should hit the refineries? i heard that in chechnya, neither 'side' dared hit the oil facilities. of course, the usa did bomb ploesti once...
Link? Link it or forget it.....
vineyardofsakar.blogspot.com
You will have to read thru' can't link comments like ZH.
Does not work.
Besides, if this was credible, he/she would specify Leopard II or Abrams.
Leopard II = Germans
Abrams = Americans
I would love to see the Leopard II vs. T-90.
My bad.
vineyardsakar.blogspot.com
Says they are partly covered so he can't make out type or insignia.
His credibility is upto you to discern.
The post you mentioned was about this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIMVwbQxKiQ.
Tanks images start at 26 seconds. I have to say this is difficult to verify.
Once again
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com
Haus, forgive me, but are you serious? It's interesting to discuss military warfare or model and execute scenarios as simulations, but in reality? I will have to disagree.
I will say my opinion that Leopard II > T-90. fully upgraded T-90 with ERA, anti-tank missile defense, and cannon-fired missiles is a formidable adversary, however.
I doubt that will happen much. Things are changing and German business and people don't want that...
I would expect Abrams vs Leopard and T90 about as likely in the long run.
yeah, maybe in a video wargame 20 or 30 years after the fact, right? but real-life tends to be quite 'dicey'.
Link?
Martin Armstrong wrote about us tanks going back to Europe in jan. there were yt vids of Austrian tank div moving thru small Austrian towns going south east I would guess towards slovakia
US special forces are like a heavyweight that gets the belt then fights nothing but chumps for a few years. Apart from the regular Army, whatever, being far more over-stretched and exhausted than people realize, I'm not quite sure they will be nearly as effective fighting Ivan and Little Ivan at home... indeed, you aren't going to see that, you'll see, I think, something more along the lines of Syria + Pakistan.
If I were Putin, I'd be massing subs near the American west coast, and denying the Obama/Neocon regime the fight they want to have. In fact, it seems unlikely, whatever your ToP [Theory of Putin], that Russia is just going to sit back and play defense close to the goal. I'm sure someone translated Zbig's book into Russian.
I think they try to avoid the fight they know the neocons, ziocons, and other hawks want as long as they can, but prepare for the inevitable, and part of that has to be not fighting the sort of action the corrupt and relatively stupid Joint Chiefs and SOC think they're going to be able to dictate.
And China has to know they're next on the menu.
Pivot, indeed.
Why use subs when you can easily reach US airspace, as the Russians just recently demonstrated near the CA coast?
Jesus.
Really?
May 6 – Children of Slavyansk gathered to protest against Ukrainian army aggression in their town. The world news media will not show this, because these children are not so called “pregnant-children-of-maidan” killing Berkuts. They are just ordinary children of Slavyansk.
Sometimes they want to eat, and their parents just want a Referendum, and that is, for sure, a terrible crime in a democratic country, their parents are doomed to be killed, but what about children? Yet, for such crimes in the Great Ukr Land, perhaps, children are considered to be separatists and pro-Russians too?
http://svolkov.livejournal.com/744328.html
Democracy=Mob Rule=Shit. Is that what you mean?
The founders of our Republic were explicit on that, but we let the progs take over our education system from pre-k to post doc, so here we are having to explain this ancient observation about democracy.
That's rich coming from a country that once starved to death millions of Ukranians
It's all propaganda from all sides. The US has its own genocides under its belt. There is no real moral authority in the world, only short memories and arrogance.
Yep. Fuck em all. No point reading the small print.
+ 1,000 if I could.
When Germany needs their gold back, suddenly there's no such thing as an atrocity, anything goes.
America only cares about oil country genocides. And anyway, the NFL draft is in 2 days. They could be raping babies and nuking each other and the U.S. would be debating the important stuff....Manziel or Clowney?
We will tear up up a little when Hollywood retells the story correctly, after the trenches have pushed up a decade of vegetation.
Yep, the Democrat party has blood under its fingernails, from Andrew Jackson's trail of tears to slavery and the civil war to margaret sanger's eugenics movement to FDR's accommodation of communism here and abroid to silent spring type denial of DDT to save third world children to Obama-ite help to Islamic supremacists. They aren't done either.
So, are you asserting that everything is okay? What country larger than Luxembourg does not have some ugly points in its past?
I do not think Putin is coming to do the Ukraine any favors and help them with any sort of independence.
"I do not think Putin is coming to do the Ukraine any favors and help them with any sort of independence."
What exactly is the EU/US intention in "helping" the Ukraine? If you're answer is "freedom and democracy", you need to think a lot harder.
So, Mr. International diplomacy genius, what is the real end game for the U.S. in Ukraine then? The Ukraine was hardly of interest to us. If we don't want a Putin puppet and we also don't want any sort of independence what is Obama's end game? Do we want a NATO slave state to eventually invade Russia?
You have to come up with elaborate mind numbing conspiracies to find any meaning and simultaneously make Colonel Putin, KGB the actual good guy in any scenario.
I suggest the Ukraine is in a revolutionary mess and they will have to sort it out. Meanwhile there will be many influences. Does anyone remember all the factions in America and what foreign country helped us thwart the British?
Searching for benevolent salvation in the halls of power is like looking for a virgin in a whorehouse.
It is stupid on the face of it and involves many false promises and disappointments.
The moral authority says get the fuck out of all external entanglements, severely downsize all military and psuedo military including growing domestic stazi forces, return the constitution, kick out all dual-citizens, impeach and or hang current government.
Godless jewish communists and a principled orthodox chirstian putin are perhaps not exactly the same.
ObamaDepression: Ruby Ridge, Wounded Knee, Waco, Planned Parenthood and on and on...
point being when do you let the past go and allow a country to have a point of view on matters that occur on their borders to their ethnic kin?
Wasted time to talk to paid fuckers who put trash into comments, really.
And the only government to use atomic weapons on civilians... real honorable that one.
Too bad the bombs were not available sooner, no? The Japanese empire, the Nazis, and Russians, and the Allies gave and got hell, actual fucking hell on earth, killing countless millions, maiming so many more. What the hell is the matter with you?
And your point is what? That atomic weapons ended WWII? That atomic weapons could have prevented WWII? More armchair general talk. The fact remains the US is the only government (or entity) to use atomic weapons on civilians (to date) and no amount of propaganda and/or whitewashing of history will change that fact.
We're also the only back to back world war champions! USA USA USA
Will we see a 3-peat!?!?!?!
You would be surprised how many facts and how history been changed by the govs politically correct public indoctrination system.
You seem more than a little reality challenged. The mushroom clouds did the job on the leaders of the Japanese empire, despite the total death tolls from these being far less than from conventional bombing and fighting to the death around the pacific.
Big achievement...used on civilians...when J had already given surrender request.
Why not your opinion on Germans civilians Dresden and other cities?
There is really long running list ... hard to keep updated.
Unconditional surrender is what the bombs wrought. Turned both historically nationalist war ready nations into pansy nations. Conditional surrender, Versailles type peace got us WWII.
So, what happened after WWII ended? There were no more wars/war ready nations then? There is a deeper truth in the atomic bombs through this lens. Nuclear deterrants did what exactly? Think about it.
Millions of Russians millions of native Americans or hundreds of thousands of white southerners, who's counting.
Ignorant post.
From 1917 thru Stalin was never Russians in control.
Soviet was never a Russian construct.
Famines and depradations were upon Russians and Kazaks also..look it up (not wiki)
Russians suffered more than any from Soviet murder and depradations.
Get your facts straight..
Volkodav, to your point I was reading up on the history of the Cossack people this morning. They fought the Bolsheviks in the civil war and the communists tried to kill them off from 1920 under Lenin through to the Holomodor and they were one of the principal targets of Stalin (a Georgian). The Cossacks in the area between the Rostov and the Dniper ruvers culturally and linguistically were the same or very similar to Ukrainians but were Russian Orthodox religion.
I think most Westerners have real trouble understanding the different layers and subtleties of a region like Ukraine and Southern Russia.
Greetings Global Hunter...I agree your post.....Westerners, more so Americans never learned but top skim of any history, and much of what they learned was wrong, wars told like fairy tale from holliewood manipultations.
All this is complex. Best book probably for English readers is "Ukraine A History" Orest Subtelny
No one with honor, logic and reason can seperate Ukraine (Little Russia) and Russia (Mother Russia) in history of hundreds years.
Orthodox Cossacks are not exclusive inRussian Federation borders but Ukraine lands also.
Volkadav
There are two books I would always recommend to people that are not fairy tales.
Rasputin the saint who sinned by Brian Moyhahan
Ivan the terrible by Henri Troiyat